Rules about camping and using a charm pet...

[DMN]

any rules about having to "keep the camp clear" if you keep the pet and it's partof the camp but not the PH? Can people just come in an take your charm pet? There should be rules for this since several classes can charm.

[kaev]

any rules about having to "keep the camp clear" if you keep the pet and it's partof the camp but not the PH? Can people just come in an take your charm pet? There should be rules for this since several classes can charm.

Why is this not posted in RnF?

[DMN]

Why is this not posted in RnF?

Because it's neither a rant or flame. It's a very specific questions regarding a very specific issue that involves many classes. There should be a formal/undertood rule regarding it.

[TomisFeline]

Why is this not posted in RnF?

[Jimjam]

Didn’t we already have this thread?

If it is your pet how are people taking it btw?

[DMN]

Didn’t we already have this thread?

If it is your pet how are people taking it btw?

Where is this thread you refer?

And it's impossible to permanently keep your charm pet as a pet.

[Nuggie]

Pretty common tactic to break charm, deaggro, let pet heal up, recharm. Pretty dick move to steal someone's obviously two weapon pet when they are in the area and within sight. I'd prefer less rules.

[Dolalin]

Pretty common tactic to break charm, deaggro, let pet heal up, recharm. Pretty dick move to steal someone's obviously two weapon pet when they are in the area and within sight. I'd prefer less rules.

"Don't be a dick" is still a rule. Probably the most important thing to be a rule imo.

[BlackBellamy]

If you're sitting there waiting for a former pet to heal up you still have the spawn. Anyone takes it from you they're kill stealing because you're allowed some med and preparation time before you actually engage.

[Natewest1987]

If you're sitting there waiting for a former pet to heal up you still have the spawn. Anyone takes it from you they're kill stealing because you're allowed some med and preparation time before you actually engage.

Wouldn’t this fall into claiming two camps at once under most circumstances ?

[Evets]

I'd say they can stay the fuck out of your camp and stop stealing mobs from it in the first place charmed or not.

[Jimjam]

Pretty common tactic to break charm, deaggro, let pet heal up, recharm. Pretty dick move to steal someone's obviously two weapon pet when they are in the area and within sight. I'd prefer less rules.

The mob is not your pet and you don’t have aggro on it... I think technically this is a ‘somebody stole my item from a vendor’ issue.

[larsbars]

Regardless of rules it’s a shit move. I similarly had an issue recently where I was charm killing a 4 pop and a monk walked right by me and pulled the remaining two mobs during my first fight. Not sure what the rules are on that but I know I’d never do that to someone. I just gated out and left. In my experience people like that will eventually cause a train that kills me.

[Snortles Chortles]

sorry you lost your pet
(LOL)

[cannobeers3]

Seems like a dick move by whomever is grabbing the mob from the camp you are holding.

[kjs86z]

consider blue

[drackgon]

If its outdoor camp. Your only allowed one spawn, So tech if your charming thats ur spawn. So either your pet or the next PH is up for grabs. If indoor camp is what you can see. So if you charm a mob from another room, your pet is up for grabs. Personally I think Its a crappy thing to do to kill enchanters pets, or try and play this rule lawyer card. But also IMO OP is toxic so just a way the world helps itself:)

[cobaltblack]

Consider red

[Jibartik]

can someone explain to me what is going on here?

Are we talking like, using the shin ghoul lord as a pet while you farm bloodthirsties?

[drackgon]

No Jib, OP is saying for example take ghoul lord camp mobs in room. If he charms one and uses it to farm others and PH Is he considered keeping his camp clear if he leaves up the charmed. In that case hes tech keeping camp clear. Even if that one mob stays alive via charm(its tech considered handled and CC'd).

But again if you look at it hes charming a mob not originally in room. Say HHK Goblins the backstab npc that people charm all the time. That mob doesn't belong in your room of goblins. So if it breaks, Its a dick move but tech when it breaks someone can Gank your mob or just charm themselves(bc you can't have more then 1 camp in a dungeon.

But pretty sure this is all a stupid post hence should be in RNF. Seems someone caused him some hurt and OP is sour about it.

[Snortles Chortles]

Haha

[fastboy21]

Its pretty common for an enchanter solo'ing to need to memblur a charmed pet (i.e. break charm then memblur) so that the pet regens to full hp and the chanter can chill out and med between cycles. sometimes due to difficulty of the camp the enchanter has no other real choice then to rely on leaving one mob up all the time.

Its a pretty old school tactic that all you have to do to compete with that chanter is wait till he needs to break charm and then steal his pet (either forcing him to keep it charmed or to let you possibly kill it --- with whatever items are on it that the chanter gave it).

If you've never done this to another player (or had it done to you) it is actually pretty easy to disrupt a chanter this way at tight camp spots.

Its kind of a dick move regardless of rules...but it depends on the underlying reason the chanter and the other player are "competing" instead of coming an agreement of their own. It could just as easily be the chanter's fault that the disagreement is happening.

[Bigsham]

#1 aradune enchanter troll was to charm something high level, haste it then camp right next to a group

see you in thurgadin !

[larsbars]

#1 aradune enchanter troll was to charm something high level, haste it then camp right next to a group

see you in thurgadin !

Damn that’s mean.

[Solusekro]

So a question for this group. Has necro charm been nerfed? If I FD now with a charmed pet the charm immediately breaks. Similar experience from others? /tear

[Sabin76]

So a question for this group. Has necro charm been nerfed? If I FD now with a charmed pet the charm immediately breaks. Similar experience from others? /tear

From the Plane of Sky patch notes:
Feign Death and Pets
After a serious discussion regarding the Necromancer's Feign Death tactic, as well as reviewing public opinion on the matter, we have implemented a change. As we would like everyone to understand why we feel this change was necessary, here is a summary of the issue:

Problem:

Feign death allows you to become an invalid target in all circumstances, providing offensive tactics that are abusive. For this ability to remain balanced, the pet should follow the same rules as invisibility. Offensive tactics used by other classes involve the creature getting a saving throw verses the effect. Since creatures do NOT get a direct save verses feign death (as you cast it on yourself), and since you can retry the combat once you have feigned death, there is very little risk to necromancer himself. As this tactic involves charming an NPC and turning it against another NPC, which could be part of the same spawn, it allows for Necromancers to solo MUCH bigger rooms than any other class could. This situation is well beyond what would preserve game balance for any other class (soloing the Bloodthirsty Ghoul room and Ghoul Lord room, for example).

Example:

While there are many examples of how the Necromancer Feign Death tactic is abusive, one of the most egregious occurs in the Ghoul Lord room of Lower Guk. The room consists of 2 Bok Ghoul Guards and the Ghoul Lord himself. Using the current system, a level 50 Necro can easily solo the room at virtually no risk to himself. The Necro can get into the room quite easily with Invis To Undead. To clear the room he uses Screaming Terror on one Bok and Charms the other. When the Ghoul Lord rushes him, he feigns. The Lord then turns on the charmed Bok and kills it, taking considerable damage during the fight. The Necromancer waits until the Ghoul Lord returns to its spawn point. When the necromancer gets back up, he is in no danger of being attacked due to the way Feign Death works now. He then charms the 2nd Bok and Feigns again. The fight goes on and the 2nd Bok is killed. When the Necromancer gets back up he has a VERY wounded Ghoul Lord AND nearly full mana. The Lord is now an easy kill, and the Necro collects his special items.

Solution:

Ideally, Feign Death should work like Invisibility, where summoned pets suicide and the charmed ones break Charm. We do not want, however, to adversely affect lower level Necromancers to such a large degree. What we do recognize is the need to prevent higher level Necro's from exploiting key spawn points. Hence, when you Feign Death, any charmed NPC will immediately break Charm. However, summoned NPCs (pets) will NOT be affected. While this still allows the use of the Feign Death tactic with your summoned pet, it does not imbalance the game and many dungeon spawns to the degree that charming an NPC does.

MY question to the community is why necros were allowed to keep their pets while FD, but DE Mages destroy their pets when hiding... :P
#NecroEnvy

[Bigsham]

Custom server

[Solusekro]

From the Plane of Sky patch notes:


MY question to the community is why necros were allowed to keep their pets while FD, but DE Mages destroy their pets when hiding... :P
#NecroEnvy

Fair enough, that is similar to what I did at lord. Slightly more risk soloing it now.

[DMN]

Also I'm curious what the rules are if persona X has person y on ignore, and the rules say person y can ask person x who is next at a given "camp" they are holding.

[Zippit]

[Wed Sep 02 14:08:17 2020] No one fucking cares.

[DMN]

[Wed Sep 02 14:08:17 2020] No one fucking cares.

keep your dogshit in RNF.

[Zippit]

ead lol

[DMN]

Hurr durr?

[Jibartik]

I think one of the best things being an enchanter is denying someone a mob with the click of 1 button. If someone took my pet I would just walk right up to their camp they pulled it to and right before they get that juicy exp it'd STOP, and walk right back to me.

At which point I say GOOD DAY sir, like I'm scrooge, and me and my frog RP walk back to our camp.

That salience when everyone like, rotates in place, confused, wondering what happened, maybe a spell hits your charmed pet and nothing happens. Its great. Second only to fearing someone on rallos zek before they nerfed that :o

[Jimjam]

I was under the impression it’s not really your npc if it is neither charmed nor aggroed onto you.

Is there a grace period where you get to ‘keep ownership’ of NPCs once charm is dropped and it is deaggroed? I would have thought it is like items dropped or sold to vendors. Once it’s gone its gone.

[Jibartik]

Yeah if a GM shows up cus you snatched an EXP mob out of a camp that you been killing with all day they aint gonna smack you for it.

I mean you could have like a few thousand plat on that thing, and if someone thinks this is the kind of community where its "losers weepers" and the group gets all that loot to /random, they are wrong lol

[Jimjam]

The thread is slanted as a rules question, not a community etiquette question.

This is why I am using the comparison of vendoring items. Consider recharge ‘theft’ fiascos.

Rules are if you give the item to an npc and someone else takes the item that is fine. The community etiquette however is strongly against this.

Are you saying this thread being framed as a rules question is a false pretence? Is the real function of the thread to create a community precedent to allow soloers to keep camps uncleared and unengaged? To exploit ooc regen on mind wiped former charm pets without worry of reprisal?

‘Stealing’ ‘pets’ isn’t the only ‘dick issue’ here, but such issues aren’t exactly in the scope of a rules question.

[Jibartik]

Hmm no i mean as far as rules go I think as long as you havent died, you are in the right to take your mob back if it was swiped from you while its recharging.

I dont know the rules off teh top of my head but there is language about like, or similar to, "in and around the area" or something, or also like "reasonable amount of time" etc

So a lot of things do come down to GM discretion, and a reasonable amount of time, or around the area, is in the same zone as a pet of yours that is recharging for a "short amount of time" that it takes to get full.

So like, as far as rules go, i think youd be in the right to walk up, charm and snatch BACK your pet, if someone took it.

If someone took it without telling you, looted it and then denied it, you're going to have a harder case and can win if you can convince someone to look at the logs im sure and were not like "why should I be tactful" lol (thats a ref to another thread hehe) but the most you may win is a reimbursement in a few months so shallow victory hehe

[Tunabros]

Pretty dick move to steal someone's obviously two weapon pet when they are in the area and within sight. .

Dont think they broke the rules at all
but yah that is a pretty asshole move

[zaldaben]

the way the current rules are written you can absolutely charm something and camp a mob. however if its an outdoor zone someone could absolutely come up and lay claim to the mob you have charmed if you are using it to camp another mob. say for instance an enchanter was charming one ice giant to kill another in everfrost. If someone wanted to they could claim the spawn that is your pet. its also up to you to give up what mob you want because technically you are taking two spawns. its a pretty dick move and I think most here agree on that. IF its an indoor zone what ever you can see in the room is yours if you can keep it down.

[Kief]

This was never an issue and I played Keeth 1-50 Enchanter in many popular areas (including Guk, Solb, etc.)

Think it just kinda goes along with whether or not people think you're an asshole. If they do - you might get problems.

[Kief]

There was one time at Guk Lord camp where I afk'd for like 15 or 20 minutes and came back to Seal Team destroying my uber frog pet with 2 -10mr 75 hp rings, -15mr shoulders, -5 cloak and double yaks on it. But those guys are assholes anyway so yeah.

Comes back to the asshole thing imo.

[DMN]

IF its an indoor zone what ever you can see in the room is yours if you can keep it down.

But the question is when the charm mob is part of the camp you are holding. You can't keep something permanently charmed, especially if using it solo since it won't heal worth a crap.

[DMN]

There was one time at Guk Lord camp where I afk'd for like 15 or 20 minutes and came back to Seal Team destroying my uber frog pet with 2 -10mr 75 hp rings, -15mr shoulders, -5 cloak and double yaks on it. But those guys are assholes anyway so yeah.

Comes back to the asshole thing imo.

Why in the world would you ever put yaks on a pet?

[Luigi]

more aggro ?

[Kronick89]

consider blue

I have had so many bad experiences on blue it almost made me quit playing forever. So many rules lawyers and kill stealers i ran in to 2 or 3 a week playing only a few hours a day. Since launch on green i’ve had an issue once

[kaev]

Why in the world would you ever put yaks on a pet?

Seriously, why would you want your pet to do more damage and to interrupt spellcasting? why? It defies explanation!

[DMN]

Seriously, why would you want your pet to do more damage and to interrupt spellcasting? why? It defies explanation!

The damage difference between yaks and a torch on any 35+mob is going to be around 1.0%. Meanwhile you massively increase the risk of your pet destroying you on a charm break with some unlucky procs.

[Swish]

I have had so many bad experiences on blue it almost made me quit playing forever. So many rules lawyers and kill stealers i ran in to 2 or 3 a week playing only a few hours a day. Since launch on green i’ve had an issue once

More rules = more rule lawyers.

...yet people ask for more rules all the time.

[kaev]

The damage difference between yaks and a torch on any 35+mob is going to be around 1.0%. Meanwhile you massively increase the risk of your pet destroying you on a charm break with some unlucky procs.

reasonable