Why did the Kael FTE rules change?

[Nibblewitz]

Are we gonna mario kart for vulak?

[Snortles Chortles]

don't forget to click off SoW or face a FTE rule violation

[Tankwipe]

don't forget to click off SoW or face a FTE rule violation

[Goodest]

Mostly due to the fact the staff think people are cheating at Cothing with pixel detection software. Funny thing is kael is the only zone... not EJ, icewell, dreadlands...... just kael...

[Zipity]

They cut the sock time in half with new rules and foot racing is more fun + Cothing has small load time so even if 4 people get cothed at same time, lowest ping will always have a big advantage. What we have now is less full on socking, a more fair race, and a more exciting and fun race. I will add though(and my guild is smaller) there should be more racers allowed perhaps 6 or 8 per entity

[Fammaden]

Mostly due to the fact the staff think people are cheating at Cothing with pixel detection software.

What made them think that?

[Mikebro]

Why are the new raid rules not posted to the public... in the raid discussion forums? And we're all surprised there was confusion on the first race.

Stop the back channel conversations and make it public already.

[Twochain]

Are we gonna mario kart for vulak?

imo it's a lot better of 5 hours of trains, and it gives a chance to every guild to compete. Unlike the year of free vulaks Riot has gotten. (Not hating btw)

Mostly due to the fact the staff think people are cheating at Cothing with pixel detection software. Funny thing is kael is the only zone... not EJ, icewell, dreadlands...... just kael...

From what I understand, it's just a test run to see how it works out.

[Goodest]

From: Galach in the UN
Kael: King Tormax & Statue (natural spawn only)
Run up from WL side where snow/dirt starts (old run up spot)
Sow max speed ( no crown of rile shadow step etc)
dmf/levitate required
6 max runners
Max runners would be tied to AOW as well (can’t team up for AOW if your combined runners were more than 6)
Need to pull with your FTE

[Goodest]

The final agreement in the UN:
Kael changes
============
Kael is now a <race> - max 4 racers - pull with FTE - no crown of rile - have to levi - max speed: sow - start line snow/grass (the old line)

Only 4 racers from each guild / alliance can go beyond the zoneline until after FTE is out. Do not go beyond the zoneline until after FTE is out unless you are a racer.

* first 8 hours - delayed race
* second 8 hours - instant race
< dealyed race >: 1 tracker, as soon as statue/KT pops make a shout message (Statue pop) /ran 1000 beginning 3 min after pop shout. 900-1000 rolls indicate race start.
< instant races >: race on pop

[Pretzelle]

Is this a player agreement or a server rule? Are guilds/players not in the UN bound by this?

[indiscriminate_hater]

Riot lost the first race - I fully expect them to whine this new rule out of existence

[Pretzelle]

Riot lost the first race - I fully expect them to whine this new rule out of existence

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Goodest]

These rules are put in place by the CSR staff we can not just GO detoxx style and say fuck your agreements. They are still working out fine details in the UN channel. Riot conceded it due to too many racers five riot members started running up, Freedom had three and AG had two. Freedom + AG won the mob due to no competition, FYI they drops the statue FTE on a riot member at the zone line.....

[Molitoth]

Riot lost the first race - I fully expect them to whine this new rule out of existence

:rolleyes:

[Woke Locc]

These rules are put in place by the CSR staff we can not just GO detoxx style and say fuck your agreements. They are still working out fine details in the UN channel. Riot conceded it due to too many racers five riot members started running up, Freedom had three and AG had two. Freedom + AG won the mob due to no competition, FYI they drops the statue FTE on a riot member at the zone line.....

Can you post the jurisprudence when it's finalized? :D

[kaizersoze]

They cut the sock time in half with new rules and foot racing is more fun + Cothing has small load time so even if 4 people get cothed at same time, lowest ping will always have a big advantage. What we have now is less full on socking, a more fair race, and a more exciting and fun race. I will add though(and my guild is smaller) there should be more racers allowed perhaps 6 or 8 per entity

Assuming that the person tracking Statue / KT spawn is honest when it pops. Right now Riot is the one who has the most incentive to track / sock with their larger base of players and greater chance to kill AoW at any given time rather than waiting for more members to come online. If KT / Statue started shouting like CT does, it becomes a non issue however :)

I am looking forward to racing myself, but I think 4 is plenty myself. As long as guilds are all aware of who is racing at any given time and there are no breakdowns in communication, should be ez pz.

But yeah its weird that they dont suspect people are cheating other mobs though.

[Ripqozko]

Sorry you can’t footrace for warder loot.

[Arvan]

Is this a player agreement or a server rule? Are guilds/players not in the UN bound by this?

Right now its a player agreement that only applies to the guilds that can currently see it in the discord. If it ever gets posted to the raid rules on the forum then it will prob apply to every guild. Also im not sure the gms are anything but transparent.

[Pretzelle]

So, Kluwen and gang could theoretically join forces with unrepresented guilds and FTE it on pop? :o

[Arvan]

If you don't get banned from making a guild to get around the rules you yourself agreed to then... Idk what you get banned for.

Oh wait...

[Jauna]

Is this a "made ya look" thread? cant see shit on other forums about this

[galach]

Is this a "made ya look" thread? cant see shit on other forums about this

no.

[Kluwen2]

So, Kluwen and gang could theoretically join forces with unrepresented guilds and FTE it on pop? :o

Yep you better warch out!:eek:

[Baler]

Raid Rules on p99 are put in place for very good reasons. They are never put in place on a wimp or to target a particular group. The staff on p99 spend hours communicating with raid leaders, guild leaders and even players. They make an informed decision based on the well being and health of the server. They really have a thankless job and this thread has much proof of that. Babysitting us adults who fight over pixels is a full time job yet they continue to volunteer their time.

[Trexller]

Babysitting us adults who fight over pixels is a full time job yet they continue to volunteer their time.

this

raid rules get weirder by the day.

No matter what rules they set you all find ways to fight over mobs.

Guild raid "Time out bans" don't do anything.

Eventually they are gonna make each guild sit in its own playpen while staff distributes pixel pacifiers.

and yet its only gonna get worse in green kunark.

[reznor_]

and yet its only gonna get worse in green kunark.

I personally, am very excited for the chaos that will be green kunark release. I've got vacation days coming up and all I want to do is travel around and stream the insanity.

[Trexller]

Oh yeah its gonna be epic drama at kunark release.

All of the drama queens and 40 year old babies who have a mean bosses and got picked on in high school are gonna hotkey /petitions, /ooc insults, /shout wars

Heres a translation of what can be expected:

"My life didn't turn out the way I wanted so I need self validation from pixels and if I don't get it im gonna piss and moan and cry and moan some more until the rules are changed to my benefit until those rules dont work and they make new rules"

[Swish]

Reading this thread is comedy.

https://i.imgur.com/0wJJH5L.png

[Arvan]

Raid Rules on p99 are put in place for very good reasons. They are never put in place on a wimp or to target a particular group. The staff on p99 spend hours communicating with raid leaders, guild leaders and even players. They make an informed decision based on the well being and health of the server. They really have a thankless job and this thread has much proof of that. Babysitting us adults who fight over pixels is a full time job yet they continue to volunteer their time.

Does this guy even play here?

[Viscian]

These rules are put in place by the CSR staff we can not just GO detoxx style and say fuck your agreements. They are still working out fine details in the UN channel. Riot conceded it due to too many racers five riot members started running up, Freedom had three and AG had two. Freedom + AG won the mob due to no competition, FYI they drops the statue FTE on a riot member at the zone line.....

That’s a lie. Riot fully raced all the way, and ONLY conceded after not obtaining the FTE. Nice try on the spin #fakenews.

[Baler]

Does this guy even play here?

Yes I do play P99 Green, I retired from blue.
In the last two weeks I have over 170 hours on green. Preemptive response, Yes I do have a job. :)

I have 3 50s, and 2 sub-50s on green currently.
The reason I retired from blue is I did all content p99 blue had to offer, all of it. So I spend my days on green waiting for 'new' content to do on my green characters. :D

[Savok]

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with crap like this anymore. This sounds like a dumpster fire still as far as raiding goes.

[Rainlord]

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with crap like this anymore. This sounds like a dumpster fire still as far as raiding goes.

It's what you get when you distill the worst players and biggest assholes on the server into one guild. Sinix, Furoar, Detoxx, Beefbroccoli (lol, nice name change nerd), Dannyl... mega OOF. They just cry and complain to the GMs because their 40 man guild can't compete without a hand out.

[Dman2701]

We conceded, and than you got your FTE you killed Statue on, could have picked up FTE if we weren't conceded on it.

[Wed Aug 19 14:56:50 2020] Kickez shouts, 'Riot Concedes Statue - too many racers'
[Wed Aug 19 14:59:06 2020] The Statue of Rallos Zek engages Zergi!

[Viscian]

We conceded, and than you got your FTE you killed Statue on, could have picked up FTE if we weren't conceded on it.

[Wed Aug 19 14:56:50 2020] Kickez shouts, 'Riot Concedes Statue - too many racers'
[Wed Aug 19 14:59:06 2020] The Statue of Rallos Zek engages Zergi!

Nice log change. Detoxx actually got the initial FTE. Once again. Nice try on the spin. #fakenews

[Dman2701]

Lol you have no idea what your talking about...you guys dropped FTE at WL zoneline

[Damarous]

Raid Rules on p99 are put in place for very good reasons. They are never put in place on a wimp or to target a particular group. The staff on p99 spend hours communicating with raid leaders, guild leaders and even players. They make an informed decision based on the well being and health of the server. They really have a thankless job and this thread has much proof of that. Babysitting us adults who fight over pixels is a full time job yet they continue to volunteer their time.

The biggest issue I have with this, as a previous member of Dawn Believers while we attempted to break into some of the higher end targets; we found there to be VERY little actual published information on the forums. This all happens on private discords that only guild leaders are invited to, and only if someone deems it necessary to invite you. Therefore it's only rules for people already attempting that content. There's no public location of these rules for people to try to abide by the rules while breaking into the higher end targets. We learned more from hearsay from other guilds than any other source

[Arvan]

^ That reminds me of like 5-6 years ago when the raid rules were almost impossible to find and spread out over years of ruling precedent/buried in ancient forum posts. Guilds would claim we broke rules that didn't even exist to get us to concede mobs lol. Same dumpsterfire players just years later. Its still the best velious era emu on the net though so here we are :D

[Detoxx]

We conceded, and than you got your FTE you killed Statue on, could have picked up FTE if we weren't conceded on it.

[Wed Aug 19 14:56:50 2020] Kickez shouts, 'Riot Concedes Statue - too many racers'
[Wed Aug 19 14:59:06 2020] The Statue of Rallos Zek engages Zergi!

You conceded after you tried to win the race and lost. You knew 19 seconds into a 95 second race you broke the rule. You gambled and still lost. If you won, you would have never conceded.

[kaizersoze]

You conceded after you tried to win the race and lost. You knew 19 seconds into a 95 second race you broke the rule. You gambled and still lost. If you won, you would have never conceded.

Or they arent going for the kill 1 concede 2 method.

[Zipity]

These rules are put in place by the CSR staff we can not just GO detoxx style and say fuck your agreements. They are still working out fine details in the UN channel. Riot conceded it due to too many racers five riot members started running up, Freedom had three and AG had two. Freedom + AG won the mob due to no competition, FYI they drops the statue FTE on a riot member at the zone line.....

So Riot races, lost FTE waited for statue to get out of ice bridge, then conceded, then after conceding due to breaking rules had players hang out exactly where they know the mob always gets pulled too and got a new FTE message on the raid mob they conceded almost 3 minutes later??? Experienced raid leaders should have had you vacate the zone, no business being there after a concede especially at the kill spot which is at a zoneline(no excuse not to zone). How is this not a further penalty?

[kaizersoze]

So Riot races, lost FTE waited for statue to get out of ice bridge, then conceded, then after conceding due to breaking rules had players hang out exactly where they know the mob always gets pulled too and got a new FTE message on the raid mob they conceded almost 3 minutes later??? Experienced raid leaders should have had you vacate the zone, no business being there after a concede especially at the kill spot which is at a zoneline(no excuse not to zone). How is this not a further penalty?

The FTE message on Zergi at the zoneline?

[Dman2701]

More rule changes encase you aren't in UN

Kael:
Kael: King Tormax & Statue (natural spawn only)
Run up from WL side where snow/dirt starts (old run up spot)
Sow max speed ( no crown of rile shadow step etc)
dmf/levitate required
Statue/AOW concessions linked
First 8 hours of window: announce in shout then race after 3 minutes
Last 8 hours of window: run on spawn
4 max runners
Max runners would be tied to AOW as well (can’t team up for AOW if your combined runners were more than 4)
Need to pull with your FTE
[4:37 PM]
Severilous:
EJ Sev
Footrace on spawn
Sow max speed (no crown of rile, shadow step, knockback etc)
Lev required
Startline FOB (old spot)
6 max (1 group) runners
Selo’s etc allowed after FTE
Pull to TT zone line.
Applies only to naturally spawning & not on quakes/server resets
[4:38 PM]
Gorenaire:
Race from druid portal
Bard speed allowed (no crown of rile, shadowstep, knockback etc)
Lev Required
6 max (1 group) runners
Startline Druid Portal
Pull towards Druid, Wizard Spires or Ruins

[Dman2701]

Remind me of when PS & CSG got fte on Koi and brought it to zoneline than dropped fte on it and some AM person got FTE. Than PS & CSG killed Koi and had to conceded 2 koi afterwards..

[Dman2701]

This was after AM already conceded Koi mind you...so...when should we expect your 2 conceded Statues?

[Mikebro]

Why are the new raid rules not posted to the public... in the raid discussion forums? And we're all surprised there was confusion on the first race.

Stop the back channel conversations and make it public already.

[Goodest]

So Riot races, lost FTE waited for statue to get out of ice bridge, then conceded, then after conceding due to breaking rules had players hang out exactly where they know the mob always gets pulled too and got a new FTE message on the raid mob they conceded almost 3 minutes later??? Experienced raid leaders should have had you vacate the zone, no business being there after a concede especially at the kill spot which is at a zoneline(no excuse not to zone). How is this not a further penalty?

nah Racers where told in voice to concede it when they where in arena they let an officer make the official ooc/shout. Sorry walllicker by the way freedom had one bard, one ranger and a rog run up. Yet AG had a ranger and a bard.... shouldn't you concede.... nah Fours said the rog wasnt racing shouldn't be there... so ag + freedom had 5 racers also... but we need to move on. on the random he left the line to run up there the same as what riot had both piled off before 4 way but we did the right thing once the confusion was cleared up.

[Molitoth]

Riot lost the first race - I fully expect them to whine this new rule out of existence

I still find this hilarious, anyone else?

_____ tells server they are casual scum and to "git gud".
Server Gets gud.
_____ loses and wants rules changed.
Rules changed.
_____ keeps losing and wants rules changed.
Rules changed back.
____ loses more and wants rules changed.
Rules changed.

[Baler]

The biggest issue I have with this, as a previous member of Dawn Believers while we attempted to break into some of the higher end targets; we found there to be VERY little actual published information on the forums. This all happens on private discords that only guild leaders are invited to, and only if someone deems it necessary to invite you. Therefore it's only rules for people already attempting that content. There's no public location of these rules for people to try to abide by the rules while breaking into the higher end targets. We learned more from hearsay from other guilds than any other source

tl : dr- the only people you can blame for that are your guild leaders and officers.

Having personally spoken to much of the Dawn Believer Leaders, Leader & officers, I really can understand why y'all didnt break into high end velious content. Now don't get defensive, not everyone can walk the walk and talk the talk. But if you're just a member of DB who is jaded from the inside looking out. You dun fucked up man.

If your guild leader and high ranking officers are not making contact with staff about server issues or discrepancies. And a real practical solution is generated from that action. That guild will never be a high end raid guild on P99.

I talk shit about detoxx but he walks the walk and talks the talk. For that, I can respect.

Don't come into RNF and shit talk the big guilds if you're not with people who can swing.

[galach]

I'll publish everything when Dain gets figured out.

[Baler]

I'll publish everything when Dain gets figured out.

Pre-patch Dain || Post-patch Dain?

;)

[Kluwen2]

I'll publish everything when Dain gets figured out.

Meh, how about when TOV gets figured out? ;)

[Zipity]

They cut the sock time in half with new rules and foot racing is more fun + Cothing has small load time so even if 4 people get cothed at same time, lowest ping will always have a big advantage. What we have now is less full on socking, a more fair race, and a more exciting and fun race. I will add though(and my guild is smaller) there should be more racers allowed perhaps 6 or 8 per entity

Think all issues concerned could be solved by my previous suggestion. Let more racers race. Racing is fun.

[Ripqozko]

bring back lockouts, no reason not to have it since fps is locked to client now, no more alt tab jumps

[kaizersoze]

I'll publish everything when Dain gets figured out.

root all raid mobs 2020

[Baler]

bring back lockouts, no reason not to have it since fps is locked to client now, no more alt tab jumps

https://i.imgur.com/DrQPjI7.gif

[Viscian]

nah Racers where told in voice to concede it when they where in arena they let an officer make the official ooc/shout. Sorry walllicker by the way freedom had one bard, one ranger and a rog run up. Yet AG had a ranger and a bard.... shouldn't you concede.... nah Fours said the rog wasnt racing shouldn't be there... so ag + freedom had 5 racers also... but we need to move on. on the random he left the line to run up there the same as what riot had both piled off before 4 way but we did the right thing once the confusion was cleared up.

Wow. Lie again. Third times a charm right? Riot racers never piled off at for way. They went all the way into Statue area and lost FTE. Stop trying to spin this CNN fakes news here. Riot is just bad at racing. I’m sure if you unplugged AGs and Freedoms racers keyboard and mouse, we would have still beat Riot to FTE.

[Baler]

Wow. Lie again. Third times a charm right? Riot racers never piled off at for way. They went all the way into Statue area and lost FTE. Stop trying to spin this CNN fakes news here. Riot is just bad at racing. I’m sure if you unplugged AGs and Freedoms racers keyboard and mouse, we would have still beat Riot to FTE.

Part of the problem with many racers is they got pixel fever. They're so out of it they're a late start a lot of times.

Racers need to live to race, not get raid targets. Some of the all time best racers who weren't cheaters only did that and collected DKP that way. It's great that people are eager to work for the 'team' to get a target but if they've got the pixel sickness they'll be burnt out inside an hour.

Racing for FTE is an art. Strafe Run, Jumping, Acumen:rolleyes:.

[kaizersoze]

Wow. Lie again. Third times a charm right? Riot racers never piled off at for way. They went all the way into Statue area and lost FTE. Stop trying to spin this CNN fakes news here. Riot is just bad at racing. I’m sure if you unplugged AGs and Freedoms racers keyboard and mouse, we would have still beat Riot to FTE.

Oh, are you in riot's coms? It was called to concede because we had too many racers pretty early on. One issue it sounds like is people not being in voice, and those people need a wag of the finger if thats the case.

I dont understand why y'all are so mad though. It was conceded, wasnt touched, see you again in 5 days. Even when you win you're sour lol.

[SantagarBrax]

That’s a lie. Riot fully raced all the way, and ONLY conceded after not obtaining the FTE. Nice try on the spin #fakenews.

Why so Serious? "That's a Lie"

Riot conceded due 1 person not being in voice chat and it took that long to figure out that we had 5 instead of 4 for this reason.

I still want to know how are the /random people selected, what are the intervals between rolls if not getting a RUN NOW number, etc. Also, runners shouldn't be Anonymous and it would be great for each guild to state their designated runners in zone /ooc or /shout prior to rolling dice.

I've also seen in the past when Rogean made a new rule for a zone and there was even a slight possibility of confusion, he was there to say "nope, start that over."

WTB GM clarification and less ambiguity.

[Drakborn]

This whole thread is full of cringe. Some of you need to take a break from this shit...

[kaizersoze]

This whole thread is full of cringe. Some of you need to take a break from this shit...

[Baler]

This whole thread is full of cringe. Some of you need to take a break from this shit...

Don't ruin our immersion.
Thank you

[Goodest]

Wow, you lie again, is the third times a charm right? Riot racers never piled off at four way, they went all the way into Statue area and lost the FTE race. Stop trying to spin this WNN fakes news here on RnF. Riot is just bad at racing. I’m sure if you unplugged AGs and Freedoms racers keyboard and mouse, we would have still beat Riot to FTE.

Care to comment on the fact freedom three racers leave the race line and it was AG + freedom on the team up.

Was it two or three months ago riot won every foot race and they went back to cothing cause they couldn't win any of them?

[Daloon]

The real play is to concede when the other guilds' mob is 5% health and about to die. Just in case, you know?

[Goodest]

The real play is to concede when the other guilds' mob is 5% health and about to die. Just in case, you know?

the ol Detoxx go to.

[pogs4ever]

kittens gets first ever fte and gets statue into camp cleanly. week later, meta change.

[Pretzelle]

kittens gets first ever fte and gets statue into camp cleanly. week later, meta change.

Sorry Kittens but Freedom needs a handicap.

[kjs86z]

ITT: no one has sex

thanks

[kaizersoze]

Sorry Kittens but Freedom needs a handicap.

Kittens #2 guild on server if we are going off last quake for sure.

[Baler]

Kittens #2 guild on server if we are going off last quake for sure.

About damn time.

[Zekayy]

Kittens #2 guild on server if we are going off last quake for sure.

Meow

[Zekayy]

Care to comment on the fact freedom three racers leave the race line and it was AG + freedom on the team up.

Was it two or three months ago riot won every foot race and they went back to cothing cause they couldn't win any of them?

No I dont remember that but I remember the great footraces of 2017, where Aftermath won every single footrace and detoxx was king of kael, still is king of kael.

[elwing]

Kittens #2 guild on server if we are going off last quake for sure.

These poor souls that didn't realized yet that only dozekar and vulak are good targets to win...

[Mickets]

They should add some powerups on the way to KT and Statue. Mushrooms, red shells, bananas, etc.

[Pretzelle]

No I dont remember that but I remember the great footraces of 2017, where Aftermath won every single footrace and detoxx was king of kael, still is king of kael.

Yikes... Someone's got a hard-on for the boss. How's that boot taste?

[Ovaltine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yulx2mB2m8

[Detoxx]

Care to comment on the fact freedom three racers leave the race line and it was AG + freedom on the team up.

Was it two or three months ago riot won every foot race and they went back to cothing cause they couldn't win any of them?

Cause Riot had Furoar who won every race for them. "We've calculated the options and all we'd lose is one Warrior."

[Bigsham]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yulx2mB2m8

i skimmed through this sad video watching a raid of sad pathetic people stand there and do nothing in 2020

Jesus i feel bad for their parents

[xdrcfrx]

Kittens #2 guild on server if we are going off last quake for sure.

We had a ton of fun! Was probably our most successful quake ever!

[Goodest]

Cause Riot had Furoar who won every race for them. "We've calculated the options and all we'd lose is one Warrior."

hermm looking back fourus only won a very few for riot, mostly lenny, luddo and telrin. for foot races in kael WNN reports only 3 FTE wins and pulls rest where dropped pulls. Since he used his bard that has zero gear always getting rooted.

[Goodest]

Added rules to the kael part:
Any guild that teams up for AoW cannot have more than the max number of trackers (2) and racers (4) combined before Statue pops until after the 20 minute FTE lockout has expired.
Any Statue concessions are binding to the AoW they spawn.

"SO this rule set says you can only have 6 people past the race line untill the 20 min AoW lock out is expired...."


Re raceline :
Only (2) trackers and (4) racers from each guild are allowed past the raceline until FTE goes out. All other players must remain behind the line.

"This rule set means only 6 people past the race line till I am guessing Statue FTE goes out"

The only exception to this rule are people turning in quest heads to King Tormax, or people running across the zone who declare themselves to be "passing through" in ooc/shout

[Mikebro]

Added rules to the kael part:
Any guild that teams up for AoW cannot have more than the max number of trackers (2) and racers (4) combined before Statue pops until after the 20 minute FTE lockout has expired.
Any Statue concessions are binding to the AoW they spawn.

"SO this rule set says you can only have 6 people past the race line untill the 20 min AoW lock out is expired...."


Re raceline :
Only (2) trackers and (4) racers from each guild are allowed past the raceline until FTE goes out. All other players must remain behind the line.

"This rule set means only 6 people past the race line till I am guessing Statue FTE goes out"

The only exception to this rule are people turning in quest heads to King Tormax, or people running across the zone who declare themselves to be "passing through" in ooc/shout

WTB A GM post in https://www.project1999.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=69

[Mikebro]

#cleanitup2021

[galach]

waiting for the dain agreement to post.

[Drakborn]

waiting for the dain agreement to post.

We gonna jam these changes in last second before this cycle? Or hold off a few days for people to ask relevant questions and get prepared?

[galach]

We gonna jam these changes in last second before this cycle? Or hold off a few days for people to ask relevant questions and get prepared?

Kael, Gore & Sev (ej) agreements are finalized & agreed upon. All the leaders already know and were notified yesterday.

[Ripqozko]

Any discussion on tov race/lockouts

[elwing]

This is not about discussing rules, that's about ranting and flaming, you're misguided, the discussion doesn't occur there

[zszudy]

We conceded, and than you got your FTE you killed Statue on, could have picked up FTE if we weren't conceded on it.

[Wed Aug 19 14:56:50 2020] Kickez shouts, 'Riot Concedes Statue - too many racers'
[Wed Aug 19 14:59:06 2020] The Statue of Rallos Zek engages Zergi!

Either that Zergi FTE was a glitch or someone mem-blurred it. AG/Freedom had a handful of warriors with arrows into statue prior to this FTE going out.

[Sancta]

They should add some powerups on the way to KT and Statue. Mushrooms, red shells, bananas, etc.

Can I pick Luigi?

[Damarous]

Kael, Gore & Sev (ej) agreements are finalized & agreed upon. All the leaders already know and were notified yesterday.

To my previous point. Is this posted publicly, as agreements for guilds behind closed doors is a tired trope.

[Ripqozko]

To my previous point. Is this posted publicly, as agreements for guilds behind closed doors is a tired trope.

Sorry you don’t got good enough guild for UN channel.

[Zekayy]

Yikes... Someone's got a hard-on for the boss. How's that boot taste?

Lmao dude ive been on this server a long time, ive seen the other foot races you are just mad cause riot cant race thats why they spent all day yesterday doing kael run ups and practice so they can git gud lmao

[Ripqozko]

No I dont remember that but I remember the great footraces of 2017, where Aftermath won every single footrace and detoxx was king of kael, still is king of kael.

https://youtu.be/HITM6abtKVw

AM didn’t win near every footrace. Rustle won a good bit. A/A ended up suspended for long time as well.

[Pretzelle]

https://youtu.be/HITM6abtKVw

AM didn’t win near every footrace. Rustle won a good bit. A/A ended up suspended for long time as well.

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good narrative, Ramen. Aftermath won *everything*

[reznor_]

Jesus i feel bad for their parents

https://i.imgur.com/0P6q0hX.png


sad pathetic people

[Tankwipe]

https://i.imgur.com/0P6q0hX.png

[Ravager]

They cut the sock time in half with new rules and foot racing is more fun + Cothing has small load time so even if 4 people get cothed at same time, lowest ping will always have a big advantage. What we have now is less full on socking, a more fair race, and a more exciting and fun race. I will add though(and my guild is smaller) there should be more racers allowed perhaps 6 or 8 per entity
Lol. Sounds like a blast.

[cd288]

https://i.imgur.com/0P6q0hX.png

And this is on top of his other forum accounts before this one that were banned

[douglas1999]

As a courtesy to the staff, raiding should just entail literally no rules and all petitions relating to a raid are ignored forever

[Savok]

I like how a handful of guilds get to dictate the raid rules for the whole server behind locked doors. #burnitdown2020

[Ripqozko]

I like how a handful of guilds get to dictate the raid rules for the whole server behind locked doors. #burnitdown2020

Nothing new, been that way pre discord in the fap forums. Your guild is one of them, you Gucci.

[Nuggie]

wasn't there a #wipeitclean2016 at some point?

[reznor_]

I like how a handful of guilds get to dictate the raid rules for the whole server behind locked doors. #burnitdown2020

Uh, just because you aren’t there doesn’t mean that guilds who do show up and raid didn’t have input. You obviously are out of touch. Large raid guilds and small raid guilds were represented.

[Zekayy]

https://youtu.be/HITM6abtKVw

AM didn’t win near every footrace. Rustle won a good bit. A/A ended up suspended for long time as well.

no you're right we won alot though people seem to think that foot races are new lmao

[Zekayy]

https://youtu.be/HITM6abtKVw

AM didn’t win near every footrace. Rustle won a good bit. A/A ended up suspended for long time as well.

Thats cute Ramen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xkkNT3a7Ik

[getsome]

I remember Capi as the King of Kael during the Rustle days.

[shuklak]

The final agreement in the UN:
Kael changes
============
Kael is now a <race> - max 4 racers - pull with FTE - no crown of rile - have to levi - max speed: sow - start line snow/grass (the old line)

Only 4 racers from each guild / alliance can go beyond the zoneline until after FTE is out. Do not go beyond the zoneline until after FTE is out unless you are a racer.

* first 8 hours - delayed race
* second 8 hours - instant race
< dealyed race >: 1 tracker, as soon as statue/KT pops make a shout message (Statue pop) /ran 1000 beginning 3 min after pop shout. 900-1000 rolls indicate race start.
< instant races >: race on pop

Classic.

[CodyF86]

First 8 hours delayed race just made it so no small guilds have a chance to compete because the big guilds can now log racing bots out at all the race targets and have a couple people just switch between them if it pops in the first 8 hours... ... :x

Also, ironically, but in a funny enough way it gives me a good laugh, the people who want a bunch of arbitrary changes (which honestly do it however, but that actually gives smaller guilds a disadvantage) are the same people who can't even obey the current raid rules.

Kiting mobs away and dropping the train on and wiping the opposing raid force isn't an actual strategy to start your engage on a raid rob, although you wouldn't know that from watching the video(s)(s)(s) from this last cycle (or any of the previous cycles even) lol xD

You may have traumatized some people haha and it just makes way more work for the gms.

It just gave me a good laugh this morning from a really good place deep down in your stomach. Good enough I felt like posting that, but do races however you feel like it I guess, but a delayed start is not what you would want if you are a smaller guild, because statistically over any period of time on average you've given up your chance to have an actual chance at getting a mob if it spawns in the delayed start period to either of the 2 or 3 or whatever number it actually is big guilds.

[Mead]

Can we get an updated compiled list of all the p99 raid rules from Swish for old times sake?

[xdrcfrx]

First 8 hours delayed race just made it so no small guilds have a chance to compete because the big guilds can now log racing bots out at all the race targets and have a couple people just switch between them if it pops in the first 8 hours... ... :x



Yeah this. I don't understand the delayed start. Why not just race on spawn? All you're doing is inviting people arguing about when the roll for start should begin imo.,

[Cecily]

https://i.imgur.com/0P6q0hX.png

*Chomps unemployment check"

[Ripqozko]

Yeah this. I don't understand the delayed start. Why not just race on spawn? All you're doing is inviting people arguing about when the roll for start should begin imo.,

They want delayed so they can get others to track and all they need is a Gina trigger for the shout, hope this helps.

[elwing]

Yeah this. I don't understand the delayed start. Why not just race on spawn? All you're doing is inviting people arguing about when the roll for start should begin imo.,

And how is that worst for small guilds than manning a full ready to engage team with coth mage for 16h? It's exacly the contrary imho... Just need one tracker now and rpeople who can log in under 3min to have the exact same chsnce as a big guild... Befire you needed at least 6people online and ready the whole time vs just one now...

[Dman2701]

:imagine: ripping on Riot for having a 5th racer on statue and them conceding, than you having 5 racers on KT and not conceding :fatlaugh:
Classic toxx strat kill 1 to concede 2

[KansasComrade]

:imagine: ripping on Riot for having a 5th racer on statue and them conceding, than you having 5 racers on KT and not conceding :fatlaugh:
Classic toxx strat kill 1 to concede 2

I guess they needed more than 19 seconds of a 95 second race to concede.

[Twochain]

:imagine: ripping on Riot for having a 5th racer on statue and them conceding, than you having 5 racers on KT and not conceding :fatlaugh:
Classic toxx strat kill 1 to concede 2

wtf? Who was our fifth racer?

Our racers were Furoar Detoxx Venice and Conda for the entire window...


(@Galach race on all mobs, 2 hour 2 wipe lockout on all nToV mobs + doze, Vulak=Lockout starts only when all other mobs are dead in NtoV, Kael= roll for full window, define racers beforehand, anyone else can't go past 4 way until FTE goes out)

Remove poopsocking and give pretty much every guild on the server that has 40-50 raiders at level 60 a chance at every mob? Count me in.

[Dman2701]

Twistii
Furoars
Condayt
Alexii
Vori

Your officers have the fraps ask them to show you, i would show you but its an open petition.

Nobody wants to race for all mobs, if i wanted to play a racing game i would play Mario Kart, this is Everquest.

[Ripqozko]

Imagine getting this mad about content that’s been farmed for 5 years. Sorry you were late.

[Twochain]

Twistii
Furoars
Condayt
Alexii
Vori

Your officers have the fraps ask them to show you, i would show you but its an open petition.

Nobody wants to race for all mobs, if i wanted to play a racing game i would play Mario Kart, this is Everquest.

A lot of people want to race for mobs

I asked you because I just got on the computer today, and haven't asked around.


Nobody wants to race for all mobs, if i wanted to play a racing game i would play Mario Kart, this is Everquest.

https://i.imgur.com/r36ZbgI.png

First of all, (i'm not coming @ you, i have love for all p99ers except Caiu and Siryado) didn't you race for KT last night? lol I could have sworn they said you were on the line.

Second of all, Modern Problems Require Modern solutions. If this was Velious raiding in 2001... we'd all sit under the mob and javelin to get first FTE. Or, idk, Train city? The racing meta worked great for a long time on this server, and obviously, something needs to be done.

I'd like to be excited for Vulak to pop again. Instead of.... fuck here comes 4-5 hours of trains and stale mates. Not fun guys. Not fun.

[Mil]

Server should just go back to the spawn point poopsock and whoever gets the exp gets the loot. Then everyone can argue about how much "work" you have to put in to "earn" your lewt and how dedicated players deserve it more and that it takes real skill to make the best DPS team. This way everyone is made equally miserable and it's completely fair. Raiding on this server has always been a joke.

[k9quaint]

I want to race for all mobs.
I want outdoor FTE mobs to spawn in random locations.
I want Lodi to murder people at IC ring.
I want a nap.

[Baler]

How much DKP are guilds paying racers?

[kaizersoze]

:imagine: ripping on Riot for having a 5th racer on statue and them conceding, than you having 5 racers on KT and not conceding :fatlaugh:
Classic toxx strat kill 1 to concede 2

Plus flopping stuff on us at Aary, and several others throughout the day like eyeballing things in to get people ae'd then claiming we trained them. At what point do shenanigans stop being shenanigans and warrant the big S instead of concede 2?

[Ripqozko]

Plus flopping stuff on us at Aary, and several others throughout the day like eyeballing things in to get people ae'd then claiming we trained them. At what point do shenanigans stop being shenanigans and warrant the big S instead of concede 2?

Petition, they will get back to you in 2021. C u real soon . Sorry you don’t got mob control.

[Mistle]

How much DKP are guilds paying racers?

You have to pay the guilds for the honor of being one of the racers. It's part of the membership dues.

[Twochain]

Plus flopping stuff on us at Aary, and several others throughout the day like eyeballing things in to get people ae'd then claiming we trained them. At what point do shenanigans stop being shenanigans and warrant the big S instead of concede 2?

(Disclaimer: I do not speak for my guild here, these are personal opinions)

This is exactly the reason we need to be racing for mobs. If you're talking about the 2 mobs when we engaged Aary, we tried to control them. Honestly, I was personally confused on who's mob they were...... As always. Because it's hard to tell, even for GM's, to tell who caused what. It's a shit show. Every mob, every week in NToV + Doze, is train city. It's not on purpose. That's just what happens when you have 250+ people in a small corner, while trying to pull mobs, and kill dragons. AND, it seemed like we got trained directly after we killed Aary by ya'll. It's chaotic, and very hard to tell Who's responsible for what. It's every fucking week.

For example, It seemed like ya'll went to split those two guards, and then we ran past and FTE'd. This is from someone watching what was going on, but wasn't able to be in discord on that particular encounter.

A few Vulaks ago, The one <Freedom> and <Azure Guard> killed, some said in voice chat along the lines of "Don't worry, Galach is here, he'll be able to see that we were just trained by Riot" And i said.... I guarantee you Galach has no idea who trained what. As, from what I understand, Agro tables drop after dropped agro, and with 30+ Pullers and 300+ thousand people in the same 100-200 range, it's borderline impossible to tell WTF happened, unless you see fuckin 9 different fraps, including initial tags.

My point is, it's a shit show. Every week. Unless there's no competition. I'm sure your 5am Vulak went smooth.

[Pretzelle]

After Aary, Kkobe was dropping eyes over and over and pulling AEing mobs over top of the monks (and necro) closer and closer to camp. Seemed like he was just trying to stall so AG/F clerics could recover and keep Riot from advancing toward Kreizenn. Ended up wiping both parties pretty significantly.

[Phaezed-Reality]

noone cares about the beta server. didn't read thread. beta's over play live. it's not to late.

[Zekayy]

noone cares about the beta server. didn't read thread. beta's over play live. it's not to late.

you sound upset cause the true beta server will merge to blue in 2023

[kaizersoze]

(Disclaimer: I do not speak for my guild here, these are personal opinions)

This is exactly the reason we need to be racing for mobs. If you're talking about the 2 mobs when we engaged Aary, we tried to control them. Honestly, I was personally confused on who's mob they were...... As always. Because it's hard to tell, even for GM's, to tell who caused what. It's a shit show. Every mob, every week in NToV + Doze, is train city. It's not on purpose. That's just what happens when you have 250+ people in a small corner, while trying to pull mobs, and kill dragons. AND, it seemed like we got trained directly after we killed Aary by ya'll. It's chaotic, and very hard to tell Who's responsible for what. It's every fucking week.

For example, It seemed like ya'll went to split those two guards, and then we ran past and FTE'd. This is from someone watching what was going on, but wasn't able to be in discord on that particular encounter.

A few Vulaks ago, The one <Freedom> and <Azure Guard> killed, some said in voice chat along the lines of "Don't worry, Galach is here, he'll be able to see that we were just trained by Riot" And i said.... I guarantee you Galach has no idea who trained what. As, from what I understand, Agro tables drop after dropped agro, and with 30+ Pullers and 300+ thousand people in the same 100-200 range, it's borderline impossible to tell WTF happened, unless you see fuckin 9 different fraps, including initial tags.

My point is, it's a shit show. Every week. Unless there's no competition. I'm sure your 5am Vulak went smooth.

One idea that i personally liked (and thought up myself, maybe its been done before, idk, if it was it was before my time in end content) was a sort of compromise the current meta and racing. Keep things as they are currently, but add lockout of 30 minutes when you think you have a feasible engage. Failing to engage within that time would force you to either kill the trash and leave it open for another guild, engage and win, or wipe. It would favor larger guilds with more resources, but since AG / F are teaming to the point of practically being one guild (ironically bigger than riot in some if not most cases) the only ones really at a disadvantage would be kittens really, but 30 mins is a lot of time to clear trash, med, buff, etc and would still give them a shot and end the mexican standoffs that keep everyone just sitting there waiting for the other to pull trash for 3 hours in front of Vulak.

[Bigsham]

Remove all FTE ( Does not work )
Enable PVP in kael drakkal, skyshrine, TOV, Seb etc
Move to resolved

[Ripqozko]

Remove all FTE ( Does not work )
Enable PVP in kael drakkal, skyshrine, TOV, Seb etc
Move to resolved

no one plays red, hope that helps.

[Bigsham]

Well enjoy this FTE Shitfest

we had FTE on raid, winning guild gets the boss

and you still have to deal with rogues and monks jumping in and killing your healers which made trivial bosses with no AI much more fun

[Ripqozko]

Well enjoy this FTE Shitfest

we had FTE on raid, winning guild gets the boss

and you still have to deal with rogues and monks jumping in and killing your healers which made trivial bosses with no AI much more fun

sorry that red sucks, hope that helps. consider rise of zek.

[Bigsham]

cringe at the thought of playing rise of zek

[Snortles Chortles]

Rise of BLECH 🤢

[Goodest]

Kael FTE rules change is the topic not the psychiatric ward of P99

[Baler]

Rule Lawyering on the Beta server

[MaCtastic]

Why are the new raid rules not posted to the public... in the raid discussion forums? And we're all surprised there was confusion on the first race.

Stop the back channel conversations and make it public already.

Because this takes too much sense.

[Phaezed-Reality]

cringe at the thought of playing rise of zek

ROZ great server?

[SantagarBrax]

A lot of people want to race for mobs

I asked you because I just got on the computer today, and haven't asked around.


Nobody wants to race for all mobs, if i wanted to play a racing game i would play Mario Kart, this is Everquest.

https://i.imgur.com/r36ZbgI.png

First of all, (i'm not coming @ you, i have love for all p99ers except Caiu and Siryado) didn't you race for KT last night? lol I could have sworn they said you were on the line.

Second of all, Modern Problems Require Modern solutions. If this was Velious raiding in 2001... we'd all sit under the mob and javelin to get first FTE. Or, idk, Train city? The racing meta worked great for a long time on this server, and obviously, something needs to be done.

I'd like to be excited for Vulak to pop again. Instead of.... fuck here comes 4-5 hours of trains and stale mates. Not fun guys. Not fun.

The racing meta did not work "Great" for a long time. It was literally THE MOST boring time in a raiders' life if you weren't part of the 1-2% of the guild racing.

Stop showering that time period with roses and "oh, it was just so heavenly!" because it wasn't. 98% of the guild logged in, sat around to see if their guild won FTE, logged in to kill or log out. Hell, most people didn't even log in unless "FTE OURS" was in the BP, that's how horrible it was.

The grass is always greener on the other side and the fact that the GM's are actually allowing this charade of racing to go forward proves that peer pressure and non-stop whining actually have results. Some leaders of certain guilds know this and utilize it as a valuable tool.

You want, Earn it. Go get it. Just quit trying to sell everyone a turd that you polished up and claim it's pure gold and will also cure all the ails of the world.

That "something needs to be done" is on YOUR leadership and their ability to work with other guild leaders on the server, or lack thereof, not the GM's coming to save you.

[Twochain]

The racing meta did not work "Great" for a long time. It was literally THE MOST boring time in a raiders' life if you weren't part of the 1-2% of the guild racing.

Stop showering that time period with roses and "oh, it was just so heavenly!" because it wasn't. 98% of the guild logged in, sat around to see if their guild won FTE, logged in to kill or log out. Hell, most people didn't even log in unless "FTE OURS" was in the BP, that's how horrible it was.

The grass is always greener on the other side and the fact that the GM's are actually allowing this charade of racing to go forward proves that peer pressure and non-stop whining actually have results. Some leaders of certain guilds know this and utilize it as a valuable tool.

You want, Earn it. Go get it. Just quit trying to sell everyone a turd that you polished up and claim it's pure gold and will also cure all the ails of the world.

That "something needs to be done" is on YOUR leadership and their ability to work with other guild leaders on the server, or lack thereof, not the GM's coming to save you.

Racing for unrooted dragons vs racing for rooted dragons are a lot different..

In fact, the only thing that would change for the 98% of the raiders who do not pull or race.... is that there won't be a 5 hour stalemate for a mob, or constant trains. crawling stays largely the same.

[Bigsham]

how is the first lucky idiot to get 1 shotted by a rooted dragon that didnt die from a train a viable solution to dealing with sharing bosses?

how stupid are you idiots?

[MaCtastic]

When are we going to get these server rules posted in a public place?

[KansasComrade]

When are we going to get these server rules posted in a public place?

Gm posted in this thread that when Dain rules are finalized, they will all be posted publicly.

[reznor_]

hysteric beeping

You should probably stop posting

[azeth]

how stupid are you idiots?

[Goodest]

DetoxxToday at 10:13 PM
@@Freedom is conceding the next 2 Severilous as of 8/23/2020

Too many racers for one and the "mage" tracker got on the engage log.

seems like your guild needs to read the rules brah.

Also pending petition against freedom for too many racers for KT.
they ask to only concede one. But the normal detoxx concede at 10% doesnt work when your guild is part of the team up to kill it.

[SantagarBrax]

Racing for unrooted dragons vs racing for rooted dragons are a lot different..

In fact, the only thing that would change for the 98% of the raiders who do not pull or race.... is that there won't be a 5 hour stalemate for a mob, or constant trains. crawling stays largely the same.

Racing for an fte with a timer lockout on other guilds killing it is not eq. Everquest has always been a competitive game.

The point is you and your guild can't or won't compete and want the GM's to come save you.

That's the crux of the situation. You can keep spinning it any other way you like but that is the fact of the matter.

Anyone else want some handouts from the GM's while we're at it?

[MaCtastic]

DetoxxToday at 10:13 PM
@@Freedom is conceding the next 2 Severilous as of 8/23/2020

Too many racers for one and the "mage" tracker got on the engage log.

seems like your guild needs to read the rules brah.

Also pending petition against freedom for too many racers for KT.
they ask to only concede one. But the normal detoxx concede at 10% doesnt work when your guild is part of the team up to kill it.

Where are these rules posted? An invite only channel isn’t an acceptable answer; btw.

[Mikebro]

Where are these rules posted? An invite only channel isn’t an acceptable answer; btw.

this

[Lothisu]

Racing for an fte with a timer lockout on other guilds killing it is not eq. Everquest has always been a competitive game.

The point is you and your guild can't or won't compete and want the GM's to come save you.

That's the crux of the situation. You can keep spinning it any other way you like but that is the fact of the matter.

Anyone else want some handouts from the GM's while we're at it?

Lol, the moment they rooted dragons competition ended. 300 people standing on top of each other isn't competition. It is absolutely an unplayable lagfest. I'm not saying it's racing but something needs to change.

[KansasComrade]

Where are these rules posted? An invite only channel isn’t an acceptable answer; btw.

Did no one read the thread? When Dain rules are finalized, they will all be made public. Until then, they’re in the UN and your guild leaders should have access. If your guild doesn’t have access to UN I wouldn’t worry so much about what this means for you guys.

[Mikebro]

Did no one read the thread? When Dain rules are finalized, they will all be made public. Until then, they’re in the UN and your guild leaders should have access. If your guild doesn’t have access to UN I wouldn’t worry so much about what this means for you guys.

Meanwhile rule confusions from backdoor channels are causing petitions while spawns are still happening. I want my money back.

Oh wait...

[Molitoth]

Lol, the moment they rooted dragons competition ended. 300 people standing on top of each other isn't competition. It is absolutely an unplayable lagfest. I'm not saying it's racing but something needs to change.

"Competition" was between a couple of mages and monks while 170+ others sit at the ToV zone in waiting for a loot conveyor.


FUN GAME!

[kaev]

"Competition" was between a couple of mages and monks while 170+ others sit at the ToV zone in waiting for a loot conveyor.


FUN GAME!

Hush now, you're gonna spoil the narrative for all the little Timmy's out there.

[Twochain]

Hush now, you're gonna spoil the narrative for all the little Timmy's out there.

Hush now, you're gonna spoil the narrative for all the little Timmy's out there.

mmk

The narrative is this:

A week before the dragons were rooted, there were 3 very strong guilds/alliances competing happily in ToV. AM, AG, and Core/PS. AG was becoming a force by themselves. The time span from when Tempest died to Dragons being rooted saw a lot of healthy competition. I know for a fact that each guild/alliance scored a Vulak kill during this time. AM probably was winning 50%+ of the top targets, but there were another guilds actually TRYING to kill them, every time. This is competition

The dragons get rooted, and Riot forms from Core/PS, along with many officers/raiders from AG. Along with Infernus.. etc etc. AM dies. (Again not hating) Week in and week out, Vulak is a free kill. Along with MOST NToV dragons. How many times has Vulak been a free kill in this meta? With literally 0 other guilds competing? Well, I know the most recent example is... drum roll please... 2 days ago. Over the last year, I know that AG killed 1 maybe 2? Vulaks at most. I also know Ghxst+Kittens+every raider on the server not in ag/riot killed 2 vulaks due to a suspension. So, in retrospect, Riot has killed about 95% of the vulaks that have spawned over the last year. Most of those kills saw 0 other guilds competing against them. This is not competition.


IDK how else to spell it out. I'm trying to come from a neutral place with this, as above all, i'm a p99 player just like the rest of you guys, and want to see a healthy raid scene. I've raided as a member of just about every tier of guild on this server.

Now, moving on to some of the other arguments, such as, racing isn't classic. Well first and foremost I would say to you, neither is rooted dragons. However, for arguments sake, let's say that Rooted dragons were classic in era. Another big issue with this meta is that guilds cannot camp out raid targets due to server rules. If this was classic, I could take a 40 person raid, coth them to the safe spot in Doze's room, and engage+kill on spawn. I could take a 60 person raid, coth them up to dagarn's ledge, and prepare to FTE/Kill on spawn. Rampage killed every mob in NtoV with a 50-60 man raid right? In Kunark gear? And on live, I imagine most guilds hovered around the 50-60 number. When was the last time somebody even sniffed a Vulak kill with 50-60 people? Hell, when was the last time Doze was killed with a 40-50 person crew? I can think of one. Ghxst had doze down to 20% with about 40 raiders. Guess what happened next? We got trained. Guild B that caused the train conceded. Guild C killed doze while we recovered. The mob was dead to rights, yet we lost it for free.

2hour 2wipe lockouts. This would enable any guild with 50-60 level 60s to compete for every target (accept maybe fuckin vyemm, and of course AoW has and always will require a large raid force) If kittens who say meow wanted to compete for a vulak kill. They could. BuT TwOcHaIn KiTtEnS CoUlD JuSt AsK AnOtHeR GuIlD tO TeAm Up NoW If ThEy WaNtEd To KilL VuLaK. Which brings us back full circle. It's hard to convince casual raiders to come to ToV. Get coth'd up to Trips. And then either get trained for 5 hours, or watch two guilds literally doing nothing as a stalemate. Hey want to team up next week?

Raiding on this server is a toxic business. You guys ran Sirken off the server, who, despite a few mistakes he made, and maybe some heavy handed judgements, was the only guy who was willing to spend hours and hours every week playing pixel judge for a bunch of people who couldn't get along. It seemed like Braknar lasted two months of trying to do sirkens job before throwing his hands up and saying EVERYTHING IS FUCKED UP WITH RAIDING ON THIS SERVER I'M OUT. (Which sadly, was shaping up to be the best era, which is the post Tempest Am Vs Core/PS vs AG era). I hope that any GM reading my posts know that I am certainly not complaining. You guys deserve nothing but respect from us for all that you do.

That being said

2 hour 2 wipe lockouts. Roll 5 minutes after spawn. Define your guilds racers in that time. Anybody who is not a racer may not pass either the 4 way in ToV, or the 4 way in kael until FTE goes out. Winner gets 2 hours or 2 wipes to attempt the target. After that it's a free for all. If a dragon spawns during a Vulak attempt, the timer gets reset and the wipe doesn't count. You may race for any mob even if you have a current FTE. The 2 hour lockout begins on FTE, however, if you have an FTE on dagarn, then win an FTE on eashen, and wipe on Dagarn, it counts against your eashen wipe limit.

-This cuts down petitions to a fraction of what they are now. You win or you don't, and you move on. The only time there will be an issue, is say, if guild A wins Eashen, 5 minutes later Aary spawns and Guild B wins Aary, there's a chance things could get hairy. But Petitions would be way down.
-Brings back competition. If kittens who say meow won an FTE race for Vulak, they could reasonably kill it in 2 hours. Especially during the day.
-Removes poopsocking almost completely from the server. (Which again is healthy for competition... and healthy for real life)
-Allows guilds to experiment with encounters without fear of training other guilds and having to concede for two weeks/and or be suspended.
-Allows people to actually play the game while dragons are in window.

After a year of very little competition in ToV, I think it's time to try something new.

[Twochain]

other guilds* not another guilds

[Dman2701]

Its funny you keep talking about training in ntov, but all the trains lately have been from Freedom AG, seems you guys are the problem

[Tankwipe]

mmk

The narrative is this:

A week before the dragons were rooted, there were 3 very strong guilds/alliances competing happily in ToV. AM, AG, and Core/PS. AG was becoming a force by themselves. The time span from when Tempest died to Dragons being rooted saw a lot of healthy competition. I know for a fact that each guild/alliance scored a Vulak kill during this time. AM probably was winning 50%+ of the top targets, but there were another guilds actually TRYING to kill them, every time. This is competition

The dragons get rooted, and Riot forms from Core/PS, along with many officers/raiders from AG. Along with Infernus.. etc etc. AM dies. (Again not hating) Week in and week out, Vulak is a free kill. Along with MOST NToV dragons. How many times has Vulak been a free kill in this meta? With literally 0 other guilds competing? Well, I know the most recent example is... drum roll please... 2 days ago. Over the last year, I know that AG killed 1 maybe 2? Vulaks at most. I also know Ghxst+Kittens+every raider on the server not in ag/riot killed 2 vulaks due to a suspension. So, in retrospect, Riot has killed about 95% of the vulaks that have spawned over the last year. Most of those kills saw 0 other guilds competing against them. This is not competition.


IDK how else to spell it out. I'm trying to come from a neutral place with this, as above all, i'm a p99 player just like the rest of you guys, and want to see a healthy raid scene. I've raided as a member of just about every tier of guild on this server.

Now, moving on to some of the other arguments, such as, racing isn't classic. Well first and foremost I would say to you, neither is rooted dragons. However, for arguments sake, let's say that Rooted dragons were classic in era. Another big issue with this meta is that guilds cannot camp out raid targets due to server rules. If this was classic, I could take a 40 person raid, coth them to the safe spot in Doze's room, and engage+kill on spawn. I could take a 60 person raid, coth them up to dagarn's ledge, and prepare to FTE/Kill on spawn. Rampage killed every mob in NtoV with a 50-60 man raid right? In Kunark gear? And on live, I imagine most guilds hovered around the 50-60 number. When was the last time somebody even sniffed a Vulak kill with 50-60 people? Hell, when was the last time Doze was killed with a 40-50 person crew? I can think of one. Ghxst had doze down to 20% with about 40 raiders. Guess what happened next? We got trained. Guild B that caused the train conceded. Guild C killed doze while we recovered. The mob was dead to rights, yet we lost it for free.

2hour 2wipe lockouts. This would enable any guild with 50-60 level 60s to compete for every target (accept maybe fuckin vyemm, and of course AoW has and always will require a large raid force) If kittens who say meow wanted to compete for a vulak kill. They could. BuT TwOcHaIn KiTtEnS CoUlD JuSt AsK AnOtHeR GuIlD tO TeAm Up NoW If ThEy WaNtEd To KilL VuLaK. Which brings us back full circle. It's hard to convince casual raiders to come to ToV. Get coth'd up to Trips. And then either get trained for 5 hours, or watch two guilds literally doing nothing as a stalemate. Hey want to team up next week?

Raiding on this server is a toxic business. You guys ran Sirken off the server, who, despite a few mistakes he made, and maybe some heavy handed judgements, was the only guy who was willing to spend hours and hours every week playing pixel judge for a bunch of people who couldn't get along. It seemed like Braknar lasted two months of trying to do sirkens job before throwing his hands up and saying EVERYTHING IS FUCKED UP WITH RAIDING ON THIS SERVER I'M OUT. (Which sadly, was shaping up to be the best era, which is the post Tempest Am Vs Core/PS vs AG era). I hope that any GM reading my posts know that I am certainly not complaining. You guys deserve nothing but respect from us for all that you do.

That being said

2 hour 2 wipe lockouts. Roll 5 minutes after spawn. Define your guilds racers in that time. Anybody who is not a racer may not pass either the 4 way in ToV, or the 4 way in kael until FTE goes out. Winner gets 2 hours or 2 wipes to attempt the target. After that it's a free for all. If a dragon spawns during a Vulak attempt, the timer gets reset and the wipe doesn't count. You may race for any mob even if you have a current FTE. The 2 hour lockout begins on FTE, however, if you have an FTE on dagarn, then win an FTE on eashen, and wipe on Dagarn, it counts against your eashen wipe limit.

-This cuts down petitions to a fraction of what they are now. You win or you don't, and you move on. The only time there will be an issue, is say, if guild A wins Eashen, 5 minutes later Aary spawns and Guild B wins Aary, there's a chance things could get hairy. But Petitions would be way down.
-Brings back competition. If kittens who say meow won an FTE race for Vulak, they could reasonably kill it in 2 hours. Especially during the day.
-Removes poopsocking almost completely from the server. (Which again is healthy for competition... and healthy for real life)
-Allows guilds to experiment with encounters without fear of training other guilds and having to concede for two weeks/and or be suspended.
-Allows people to actually play the game while dragons are in window.

After a year of very little competition in ToV, I think it's time to try something new.

https://imgur.com/a/HAZDFpz

[Bardp1999]

The time span from when Tempest died to Dragons being rooted saw a lot of healthy competition.

The time span from when Tempest died to Dragons being rooted saw a lot of healthy competition.

The time span from when Tempest died to Dragons being rooted saw a lot of healthy competition.

The time span from when Tempest died to Dragons being rooted saw a lot of healthy competition.

https://i.imgur.com/CutKjHL.jpg

[Tankwipe]

oops my b

[Snortles Chortles]

Everquest
Healthy

Choose one

[Twochain]

Its funny you keep talking about training in ntov, but all the trains lately have been from Freedom AG, seems you guys are the problem


I talk about trains because it's a train meta. You train mobs away from or sometimes through raids. You kite them in a circle. Or you kite them away. Doze, trains both directions. Eashen, Train guards out. Vulak, train and kite flurries. Etc. Etc.

But I mean... to your point.. FR/AG are the only people competing against you guys in ToV lol... it's like saying "man when you guys weren't around everything went smooth". Riot isn't immune to accidentally training. ALL the trains lately have been from us? Come on man. You trained AG last week at vulak, and instead of conceding you let them team up with you. And gave them 1 loot. lol.

Let's take a look at the last Vulak FR/AG killed. We ended up having to concede two, but let's highlight what a shit show it was.

Feshlak was up, and it was an hours long stalemate. Kittens attempt to kill Fesh. They get it down to like what, 15? And start wiping. You guys send in a snipe crew. While you're engaged with Feshlak, a mob at the bottom of the ramp respawns. By chance (It could have agro'd anybody from all guilds represented if i'm not mistaken) the mob agros one of our members first. Not a big deal, it's a hot mob. Surely with 100+ raiders, we could reasonably be expected to be able to handle one HoT mob. We're dealing with it, but since most of our camp was in vulaks lair, we had to eventually move the mob there. Vulak was obviously our target. You were currently engaged with another target. You finish off fesh, and the moment it dies, by some miracle of RNG, Chexi gets FTE on Vulak. Since half of you raid force wasn't even in vulaks lair, it was immediately going to be a sketchy engage. Things fall off the rail pretty quick for you guys. BUT! the mob that we had been dealing with since before you were even engaged to vulak started summoning your low HP raiders from your, idk i guess ballsy? Vulak attempt, we had to concede two.

Most of that wasn't readily apparent until days later and hours of fraps being uploaded. Yet, 300+ wiped because you guys engaged a mob you weren't going to be able to take down with half your raid force. But we had to concede, but i'm not mad about that, because rules are rules. But don't forget that........ 300+ people wiped two more times after that, and from what I understand both times were Riot's fault. Which is why you guys conceded.

SO even though it was mainly your fault why 300+ people had to recover corpses for 2 hours, on a technicality, Fr/Ag was to blame because during the first wipe, a mob that we had been killing while you were engaged to an entirely different target summoned some of you as you frantically attempted Vulak.

Shit show

[Twochain]

https://i.imgur.com/CutKjHL.jpg

lmfaoo

#FreeBritney

[Twochain]

Everquest
Healthy

Choose one

the Ol Dirty Bastard is dirty and stinkin

[Pretzelle]

I talk about trains because it's a train meta. You train mobs away from or sometimes through raids. You kite them in a circle. Or you kite them away. Doze, trains both directions. Eashen, Train guards out. Vulak, train and kite flurries. Etc. Etc.

But I mean... to your point.. FR/AG are the only people competing against you guys in ToV lol... it's like saying "man when you guys weren't around everything went smooth". Riot isn't immune to accidentally training. ALL the trains lately have been from us? Come on man. You trained AG last week at vulak, and instead of conceding you let them team up with you. And gave them 1 loot. lol.

Let's take a look at the last Vulak FR/AG killed. We ended up having to concede two, but let's highlight what a shit show it was.

Feshlak was up, and it was an hours long stalemate. Kittens attempt to kill Fesh. They get it down to like what, 15? And start wiping. You guys send in a snipe crew. While you're engaged with Feshlak, a mob at the bottom of the ramp respawns. By chance (It could have agro'd anybody from all guilds represented if i'm not mistaken) the mob agros one of our members first. Not a big deal, it's a hot mob. Surely with 100+ raiders, we could reasonably be expected to be able to handle one HoT mob. We're dealing with it, but since most of our camp was in vulaks lair, we had to eventually move the mob there. Vulak was obviously our target. You were currently engaged with another target. You finish off fesh, and the moment it dies, by some miracle of RNG, Chexi gets FTE on Vulak. Since half of you raid force wasn't even in vulaks lair, it was immediately going to be a sketchy engage. Things fall off the rail pretty quick for you guys. BUT! the mob that we had been dealing with since before you were even engaged to vulak started summoning your low HP raiders from your, idk i guess ballsy? Vulak attempt, we had to concede two.

Most of that wasn't readily apparent until days later and hours of fraps being uploaded. Yet, 300+ wiped because you guys engaged a mob you weren't going to be able to take down with half your raid force. But we had to concede, but i'm not mad about that, because rules are rules. But don't forget that........ 300+ people wiped two more times after that, and from what I understand both times were Riot's fault. Which is why you guys conceded.

SO even though it was mainly your fault why 300+ people had to recover corpses for 2 hours, on a technicality, Fr/Ag was to blame because during the first wipe, a mob that we had been killing while you were engaged to an entirely different target summoned some of you as you frantically attempted Vulak.

Shit show
Sounds like you need to take a mental health break. :o

[Ripqozko]

Sounds like you need to take a mental health break. :o

lot of folks should and employment. sorry the cares act ran out.

velious has been farmed for 5 years, most of yall lost.

Sorry you dont got warder loot.

[Gatordash]

Its funny you keep talking about training in ntov, but all the trains lately have been from Freedom AG, seems you guys are the problem

lol weren't you the riot monk who trained AG at the ramp up to trips when setting up for Vulak on Aug 14? That was like 1.5 weeks ago

[Twochain]

Sounds like you need to take a mental health break. :o

? i'm at like 25% RA.. and if i never got another piece of raid loot, i'd be content with my characters. They're pretty good. I need to take a mental health break because i'm highlighting the short comings of the current situation in ToV?

ooookay dude thanks for the input i'll consider it.

[Fammaden]

Most everything 2chainz has said makes a lot of sense, but at the same time you have to wonder if there's an ulterior motive since I assume they believe they have all the best racers/FTE'rs in Freedom.

[condap99]

lol weren't you the riot monk who trained AG at the ramp up to trips when setting up for Vulak on Aug 14? That was like 1.5 weeks ago

He's an active puller for them. In train-away meta, anyone who steps up is going to occasionally be at fault.

Ofcourse, I would also expect him to know this instead of trying to insinuate that it's a one sided thing.

[condap99]

Most everything 2chainz has said makes a lot of sense, but at the same time you have to wonder if there's an ulterior motive since I assume they believe they have all the best racers/FTE'rs in Freedom.

The ulterior motive questioning should be for people who are arguing for rooted dragons, so that they aren't pullable (just like every. other. single. raid. target.)

Preserving zero competition kills sure sounds like the ulterior motive I would be questioning.

My argument is pretty straight-forward:

- Competing at the spawn point, in NTOV, is unplayable. It's a game of chicken for who will do the more outlandish engage, with more adds and more trains away that rewards exactly 1 metric: how big is your force.

- Not Naggy, Not Vox. Not Hate. Not Sky. Not Trak. Not Chardok Royals. Not Talendor. Not VS. Not VP. Not KT. Not Dain. Not Yeli. Not Tunare. NOWHERE else is this the game of EverQuest. Nowhere else is the single determining factor the number of players you bring to an encounter. And yet, we've let it define inner ring TOV for over a year.

- The simplest answer is to go back to unrooted dragons. Remove all non classic code. Unscrew up the screw up. Ofcourse, that would require admitting that it was a terrible idea that has done nothing but permanently ruin the server (an argument that isn't even worth having because it's so obviously true).

- The next best thing is changing where we compete. The competition should be in determining who gets the mob, at spawn via a race to FTE and engage, just like every other mob.

- There are literally hundreds of camera angles, and plenty of narratives. Any combination could paint a guild in a nefarious light when you're competing on top of each other in north. It's hard enough dissecting fraps when theres a coth mage and 2 FTErs in north, and you're trying to figure out why trains are acting a certain way - but when you have 225 people all casting, sitting, training mobs around - it's a disaster. Having to concede the best mob in the game because there are 50 people standing next to a spawn, and RNG having it aggro 'your' guild member instead of 'their' guild member is absurd, and only points to how stupid the system currently is.

[Dman2701]

Please show fraps of me training anyone, because it sure wasn't me.
But I have lots and lots of fraps of you guys training well everyone over the weekend

[kaizersoze]

- Not Naggy, Not Vox. Not Hate. Not Sky. Not Trak. Not Chardok Royals. Not Talendor. Not VS. Not VP. Not KT. Not Dain. Not Yeli. Not Tunare. NOWHERE else is this the game of EverQuest. Nowhere else is the single determining factor the number of players you bring to an encounter. And yet, we've let it define inner ring TOV for over a year.

- The simplest answer is to go back to unrooted dragons. Remove all non classic code. Unscrew up the screw up. Ofcourse, that would require admitting that it was a terrible idea that has done nothing but permanently ruin the server (an argument that isn't even worth having because it's so obviously true).

- The next best thing is changing where we compete. The competition should be in determining who gets the mob, at spawn via a race to FTE and engage, just like every other mob.

- There are literally hundreds of camera angles, and plenty of narratives. Any combination could paint a guild in a nefarious light when you're competing on top of each other in north. It's hard enough dissecting fraps when theres a coth mage and 2 FTErs in north, and you're trying to figure out why trains are acting a certain way - but when you have 225 people all casting, sitting, training mobs around - it's a disaster. Having to concede the best mob in the game because there are 50 people standing next to a spawn, and RNG having it aggro 'your' guild member instead of 'their' guild member is absurd, and only points to how stupid the system currently is.

Sorry nobody wants to join freedom and listen to people like you, detoxx and furoar in voice. Idk when Azure Guard is going to realize you need them way more than they need you, but I'm sure forcing them into all your 2x concessions is definitely putting a wedge in that relationship.

[Twochain]

but at the same time you have to wonder if there's an ulterior motive since I assume they believe they have all the best racers/FTE'rs in Freedom.

This is a fair point, as you're correct that I believe Freedom has the best Racers/FTErs. I'd go as far as to say that most other guilds believe the same thing. Two things about that though.

1. Racing in ToV is much more of a crapshoot than racing in Kael. Sometimes, when racing for a far target, such as koi/ladym/vulak/trips/twins, being clearly ahead of everyone else isn't necessarily a good thing. Watching old FTE videos, there were plenty, if not a majority of the time where the person who won FTE was in 2nd/3rd most of the race. It's all fun and games until DA wears off and you get one rounded. Racing in ToV is as much about not being killed on the way up as it is being the fastest.

2. Racing guarantees you a chance at killing the mob. But it does not guarantee that you kill it. If we win a Vulak FTE at 5am, and can't muster the people to get it down in 2 hours, we don't get the mob. As is, if Vulak spawns at 5am, Riot is getting the mob, virtually 0 chance it's being killed by anyone else.

The bottom line is, I could have 60 of the best raiders this server ever had, all in best in slot or near best in slot gear. (Hypothetically speaking) Yet we would still have 0 chance at killing Vulak, unless we either got trained and they conceded... or pulled off a miracle. This is not classic nor is it competitive. What's the minimum number of people a guild needs to kill Vulak in a competitive environment? Too damn high is the answer. Before rooted dragons, the number was 40-50.


To expand on to Conda's points, I very much understand why Rog rooted them. Sirken was forced out, Braknar ninja posted a thread about how ToV was on a permanent rotation because he very quickly learned how annoying it was to deal with 30 fraps an ordeal, with two sides vehemently declaring that the other side is 100% at fault. (This is all assumption) Then Braknar quit the project because Rogean said no to a permanent rotation (because that's an awful idea) and because Rog and nilbog "Don't care about it and won't do anything about it so why should I" So he felt like something drastic needed to be done. So he did it.

Sadly, the whole time, all that needed to be done was for the guilds to work together without jumping down each other throats. Training mobs to zoneline was a fun, and very unique version of raiding that didn't exist in any MMO ever. A truly competitive PVE environment.With adrenaline pumping action, and an insanely high skill gap. So if there IS a mess right now, it's us (the players) faults.

So, I disagree it was a terrible idea. I understand it. However.... it did ruin raiding in some ways. Even if we wanted to ignore the fact that rooting the dragons led to this server becoming a one guild ordeal.......... Red hasn't killed vulak once since. I'm almost positive. In fact, raiding is completely dead over there now.

Most interesting though, is that even if ToV was reverted back to March 2019, it wouldn't necessarily be the same as then. You can't push to cancel casting anymore! So while i can't speak intelligently about whether or not that is classic, or if it's over tuned as is (I really don't know at all) you'd probably have to run one hell of a Mana Sieve chain to stop mobs gating.

I do know that if we could move the mobs a little bit (I.E not rooted) that hypothetical 60 man raid comprised of the best raiders on p99 would certainly have a chance at Vulak. We'd be able to engage vulak away from his guards, yet close enough to where he wouldn't gate, even if zone line pulls were no longer viable. My point is there WOULD be wiggle room other than "lol bring more people" or "It's YOUR LEADERSHIPS FAULT FOR NOT FORMING ALLIANCES" or whatever weirdos say.

But, with zero changes made to how the dragons in ToV behave, I can't think of a better answer than, make them a foot race.

[Drakborn]

The ulterior motive questioning should be for people who are arguing for rooted dragons, so that they aren't pullable (just like every. other. single. raid. target.)

Preserving zero competition kills sure sounds like the ulterior motive I would be questioning.

My argument is pretty straight-forward:

- Competing at the spawn point, in NTOV, is unplayable. It's a game of chicken for who will do the more outlandish engage, with more adds and more trains away that rewards exactly 1 metric: how big is your force.

- Not Naggy, Not Vox. Not Hate. Not Sky. Not Trak. Not Chardok Royals. Not Talendor. Not VS. Not VP. Not KT. Not Dain. Not Yeli. Not Tunare. NOWHERE else is this the game of EverQuest. Nowhere else is the single determining factor the number of players you bring to an encounter. And yet, we've let it define inner ring TOV for over a year.

- The simplest answer is to go back to unrooted dragons. Remove all non classic code. Unscrew up the screw up. Ofcourse, that would require admitting that it was a terrible idea that has done nothing but permanently ruin the server (an argument that isn't even worth having because it's so obviously true).

- The next best thing is changing where we compete. The competition should be in determining who gets the mob, at spawn via a race to FTE and engage, just like every other mob.

- There are literally hundreds of camera angles, and plenty of narratives. Any combination could paint a guild in a nefarious light when you're competing on top of each other in north. It's hard enough dissecting fraps when theres a coth mage and 2 FTErs in north, and you're trying to figure out why trains are acting a certain way - but when you have 225 people all casting, sitting, training mobs around - it's a disaster. Having to concede the best mob in the game because there are 50 people standing next to a spawn, and RNG having it aggro 'your' guild member instead of 'their' guild member is absurd, and only points to how stupid the system currently is.

tl;dr I cant win with this rule set, please accommodate me.

[Twochain]

Sorry nobody wants to join freedom and listen to people like you, detoxx and furoar in voice. Idk when Azure Guard is going to realize you need them way more than they need you, but I'm sure forcing them into all your 2x concessions is definitely putting a wedge in that relationship.

Wow this whole time i never realized that the reason it takes 300 people and 3 trains to kill vulak is because nobody wants to listen to conda detoxx and furoar in discord.

Thanks for the enlightenment. I feel like i just gained 20 int 20 wis IRL

[Twochain]

tl;dr I cant win with this rule set, please accommodate me.

tl;dr i like my pixels please no changes

[icedwards]

The ulterior motive questioning should be for people who are arguing for rooted dragons, so that they aren't pullable (just like every. other. single. raid. target.)

Preserving zero competition kills sure sounds like the ulterior motive I would be questioning.

Server has-been pining for a time when they had uncontested dragons :rolleyes:

[Ripqozko]

Server has-been pining for a time when they had uncontested dragons :rolleyes:

i pine for the time when neither one of yall did.

[Damarous]

Just to point out. On E-Marr during velious. The top tear guilds got into a rotation, and they would spend 2-3 days clearing ToV... because they didn't pull the mobs to zone in. Seems classic to me.

[Damarous]

Tier, not tear*

[Bigsham]

TOV Full spawn on red

[Demonstorm]

Mostly due to the fact the staff think people are cheating at Cothing with pixel detection software. Funny thing is kael is the only zone... not EJ, icewell, dreadlands...... just kael...


Issue Is you can program your mouse and keyboard to run forward using that same software.. so either way you can still cheat.. so not sure what this proves

[Goodest]

Issue Is you can program your mouse and keyboard to run forward using that same software.. so either way you can still cheat.. so not sure what this proves

The GM's have screen captures of both... yet seem to not care.
The old mythbusters quote comes to mind.
"I reject your reality and sub my own" Adam S.

we have given a TON of other options kill statue and tormax in room leash every thing at the first set of doors...
have Dain act like tunare and zone wide call all coldain.
call of the ZERO all the city leaders... list goes on.....

But we follow what the staff has put in place, less coding but more time spent on useless petitions.

[Twochain]

Issue Is you can program your mouse and keyboard to run forward using that same software.. so either way you can still cheat.. so not sure what this proves

If you are running on a /random virtually all advantages of pixel detection software is removed.

[Twochain]

The GM's have screen captures of both... yet seem to not care.
The old mythbusters quote comes to mind.
"I reject your reality and sub my own" Adam S.

we have given a TON of other options kill statue and tormax in room leash every thing at the first set of doors...
have Dain act like tunare and zone wide call all coldain.
call of the ZERO all the city leaders... list goes on.....

But we follow what the staff has put in place, less coding but more time spent on useless petitions.

This sounds fucking awful r u kidding?

The GMs have screen captures of both yet seem not to care ...

Bruh

[Goodest]

Can make an if than statement in the script read the random gina trigger =<900 brah...

[Twochain]

Can make an if than statement in the script read the random gina trigger =<900 brah...

And have an advantage of what? .25 ms? Every racer is staring at the numbers. The main advantage of having pixel detection is that you do not need to pay attention (i.e staring at your screen ready to click a button for hours on end)

[Goodest]

Brah if it was a truck.... Twochain..

people can:
Script the random trigger read
Script the Run

Script and use pixal detection to run on pop

Script the Coth trigger using the same thing

Its all about client response time AKA ping in the top right corner of your screen.
People are able to eliminate the human factor with today's technology.

The staff loves the human factor of this game no Botting, afk farming ETC. So we move forward with the staffs request of removing all insta coth engages Sev,gore, kt, dain, statue and ETC.

[Twochain]

Brah if it was a truck.... Twochain..



Script and use pixal detection to run on pop



Ah, I believe I understand where you're coming from.

[Toryas]

2. Racing guarantees you a chance at killing the mob. But it does not guarantee that you kill it. If we win a Vulak FTE at 5am, and can't muster the people to get it down in 2 hours, we don't get the mob. As is, if Vulak spawns at 5am, Riot is getting the mob, virtually 0 chance it's being killed by anyone else.



What's the issue here?

A guild should be handicapped for having a large Eurasia timezone population?

Why should a guild get the chance to send a few players to race for an FTE and then have 2 hours ring fenced until people wake up and log in to have an attempt?

If you can't get a raid force mustered by the time you get FTE yellow text, you shouldn't have the rights to kill it.

[Drakborn]

Enable pvp and remove CSR support in Kael and ToV.

[kaev]

Enable pvp and remove CSR support in Kael and ToV.

play red, your dreams have already come true there

[Twochain]

Not sure why the people up top feel changing around multiple aspects of the game all unclassic-like to try and keep the "classic feel" of not having rotations (which WERE classic) when that single "unclassic" feature would literally solve most raid problems while still keeping the same exact feeling of classic EQ while raiding.

It's quite obvious by now that the idea of "classic EQ competiton" is something that will never exist in its classic form in this day and age. And no, all the years of constant cheating on almost all sides isn't competition and never will be, and you won't be able to Jedi neckbeard trick that bull into me.

because rotations are fucking lame. were 5 years into velious.

[Dogma]

:imagine: caring more about pixels more than classic.

[Gatordash]

:imagine: caring more about pixels more than classic.

Imagine your guild not being led by wolves.

[condap99]

Not sure why the people up top feel changing around multiple aspects of the game all unclassic-like to try and keep the "classic feel" of not having rotations (which WERE classic) when that single "unclassic" feature would literally solve most raid problems while still keeping the same exact feeling of classic EQ while raiding.

It's quite obvious by now that the idea of "classic EQ competiton" is something that will never exist in its classic form in this day and age. And no, all the years of constant cheating on almost all sides isn't competition and never will be, and you won't be able to Jedi neckbeard trick that bull into me.

Competition is in no way intended to emulate classic. Competition is the intersection of classic EQ raiding with modern day esports. What you appear to be championing is a notion that has not ever existed on p99, nor is there much appetite for it. The general idea within the raiding community is that if you seek zero competition, don't like this form of competition, or prefer to have an instance - there are plenty of games and servers out there for you - it's just not p99.

Also, just because you don't appear to enjoy this form of competition does not mean that it has been rife with cheating. Almost without exception, we believe that competition has been on the up and up, and sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. The fact that it can be cheated, and the statement that is has constantly been cheated are two very different things.

[Ripqozko]

This is what happens when you don’t got warder loot , yikes.

[condap99]

What's the issue here?

A guild should be handicapped for having a large Eurasia timezone population?

Why should a guild get the chance to send a few players to race for an FTE and then have 2 hours ring fenced until people wake up and log in to have an attempt?

If you can't get a raid force mustered by the time you get FTE yellow text, you shouldn't have the rights to kill it.

No - a guild should not be handicapped for having a large euro/asian population. However, a guild should also not win exclusively because of that either.

The beauty of pull era was that whether your guild was 35 people or 135 people, your guild had a chance. Yes, you had to set up a pull team, and you had to put into place the infrastructure (coth mages at strategic locations, bind points, clickies) - but these obstacles were universal and achievable.

By competing at the spawn point, the 35 person guild and the 135 person guild aren't even playing the same sport. It's no longer about killing the mob. It's about killing the mob with 10 other mobs being trained in various directions so that the 35 person guild cannot compete.

That is why the rule systems are being worked, and ultimately why TOV will either be changed, or blue will continue to wither into nothing.

Also, you never had to have a raid force at time of yellow text. You had to have it mustered by the time it came to camp. And to make this system more fair to smaller guilds, it was switched to a FTE 1hr lockout. This gave small guilds a chance to compete and was very successful. Of course at the time, very few of the smaller guilds showed up, and this is why it was reversed. Really it was only Rustle who used this system to the fullest.

[condap99]

5 years of bickering to get non classic rules changed to other non classic rules sounds just as fuckin lame. At least that 3rd "unclassic, yet happened in classic" option literally forces the only problems with the raid scene to go away entirely.

Not like it's been multiple years of proof that you man children can't play nice and raid without cheat and bend/break rules to add more shineys to your museum exhibits. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but your description of things really outs you as not a member of the raiding community. I'm not certain why anyone should take your opinions seriously.

[Dogma]

Imagine your guild not being led by wolves.It's pretty funny to me that a thread about struggling to stay relevant has comments like this. You guys keep trying to pull the same thread but it's not going to bother me lol. Keep struggling with it tho bud.

Anyways here's something actually relevant to the discussion. Enjoy trying to unclassic the server.

https://i.imgur.com/nnkj3vo.png

[kaev]

It's pretty funny to me that a thread about struggling to stay relevant has comments like this. You guys keep trying to pull the same thread but it's not going to bother me lol. Keep struggling with it tho bud.

Anyways here's something actually relevant to the discussion. Enjoy trying to unclassic the server.

https://i.imgur.com/nnkj3vo.png

If only he had carried out that threat a couple dozen times, the notion might've stuck.

[Gatordash]

Anyways here's something actually relevant to the discussion. Enjoy trying to unclassic the server.

https://i.imgur.com/nnkj3vo.png

Maybe you should post that screenshot to Riot guildleaders while they try to get Concessions for a rogue that was sneak/hide and never went past the entryway mobs and trying to call them a "racer" for statue.

[Mikebro]

I'm sorry, but your description of things really outs you as not a member of the raiding community. I'm not certain why anyone should take your opinions seriously.

Who?

[Bagavan]

Maybe you should post that screenshot to Riot guildleaders while they try to get Concessions for a rogue that was sneak/hide and never went past the entryway mobs and trying to call them a "racer" for statue.

Why would there be concessions when these new raid rules were never posted? Also, the new raid changes that were discussed in this underground chat never said anything about pull assists going past the line after a spawn right? Confused what the issue is here. I'm guessing Riot leveraged a "conceded" Statue they never actually had FTE on for some King Tormaxs?

[Twochain]

Right, on your server, people agreed to rotate mobs. That wasn't the case for every server. So yes, if we all agreed on a rotation, it would be classic. I highly doubt any of the top guilds on this server are going to do that. Which is also classic.

[Hideousclaw]

Imagine your guild not being led by wolves.

13136

Never too late to join

[Hotel]

I'll publish everything when Dain gets figured out.

tl dr

tov is never being addressed and my guild is dumb for agreeing to this

[kaizersoze]

13136

Never too late to join

Honestly when Freedom wears out and Aftermath 8.0 comes out, they should consider using that name.

[Goodest]

Daewen <AG>Today at 2:43 PM
@@Azure Guard is conceding the next 2 King Tormax as of 8/25/2020
Furoar <Freedom>Today at 2:45 PM
@@Freedom concedes the next 2 KT's as of 8/25/2020

[Ripqozko]

Wonder what the transfer rate of dkp for freedom to led by wolves will be.

[Twochain]

Daewen <AG>Today at 2:43 PM
@@Azure Guard is conceding the next 2 King Tormax as of 8/25/2020
Furoar <Freedom>Today at 2:45 PM
@@Freedom concedes the next 2 KT's as of 8/25/2020

Okay what's your point? Technicality vs Cheating. Hopefully you guys practice your racing with these two freebies.

[SantagarBrax]

Its funny you keep talking about training in ntov, but all the trains lately have been from Freedom AG, seems you guys are the problem

Riot leadership makes an effort to play by the rules and offers concessions when we screw up, without fail and without stalling.

They also don't go for certain targets to allow other guilds breaking into tov to have opportunities. All it takes is leadership from another guild, which doesn't train the hell out of Riot all the time, to ping leadership in Riot and agreements are made or targets ignored for the sake of that other guild to have some enjoyment. The overwhelming majority of Riot are completely acceptable to this.

If there is even the slightest hint of impropriety, Riot concedes the target and moves on.

How about GM's make a new rule that Riot splits all loot with the petitionfest whiner guilds that actually do the things Riot is accused of?

Will that sate your inability to compete and stop this madness?

ToV competitive clearing is fun and much more enjoyable to a stupid "FTE OURS" login and logout game.

[SantagarBrax]

EDIT*

"Riot leadership and members make an effort to play by the rules and offers concessions when we screw up, without fail and without stalling."

[Ripqozko]

Riot leadership makes an effort to play by the rules and offers concessions when we screw up, without fail and without stalling.

They also don't go for certain targets to allow other guilds breaking into tov to have opportunities. All it takes is leadership from another guild, which doesn't train the hell out of Riot all the time, to ping leadership in Riot and agreements are made or targets ignored for the sake of that other guild to have some enjoyment. The overwhelming majority of Riot are completely acceptable to this.

If there is even the slightest hint of impropriety, Riot concedes the target and moves on.

How about GM's make a new rule that Riot splits all loot with the petitionfest whiner guilds that actually do the things Riot is accused of?

Will that sate your inability to compete and stop this madness?

ToV competitive clearing is fun and much more enjoyable to a stupid "FTE OURS" login and logout game.

Yall are farming content thats already been beaten 5 years ago. No one cares, hope that helps.

[SantagarBrax]

Yall are farming content thats already been beaten 5 years ago. No one cares, hope that helps.

Someone cares, obviously, otherwise the the GM's wouldn't be in the UN trying to force handouts to guilds that can't or won't compete with a model that they came up with.

Whining leads to appeasement, appeasement leads to capitulation, and we're all left with a shittier experience from it.

[Ripqozko]

Someone cares, obviously, otherwise the the GM's wouldn't be in the UN trying to force handouts to guilds that can't or won't compete with a model that they came up with.

Whining leads to appeasement, appeasement leads to capitulation, and we're all left with a shittier experience from it.

Nope no one cares, hope that helps.

[Gatordash]

Riot leadership makes an effort to play by the rules and offers concessions when we screw up, without fail and without stalling.

They also don't go for certain targets to allow other guilds breaking into tov to have opportunities. All it takes is leadership from another guild, which doesn't train the hell out of Riot all the time, to ping leadership in Riot and agreements are made or targets ignored for the sake of that other guild to have some enjoyment. The overwhelming majority of Riot are completely acceptable to this.

If there is even the slightest hint of impropriety, Riot concedes the target and moves on.

How about GM's make a new rule that Riot splits all loot with the petitionfest whiner guilds that actually do the things Riot is accused of?

Will that sate your inability to compete and stop this madness?

ToV competitive clearing is fun and much more enjoyable to a stupid "FTE OURS" login and logout game.

Fucking led by wolves strikes again. How many burner accounts do you have?

[Twochain]

Riot leadership makes an effort to play by the rules and offers concessions when we screw up, without fail and without stalling.

They also don't go for certain targets to allow other guilds breaking into tov to have opportunities. All it takes is leadership from another guild, which doesn't train the hell out of Riot all the time, to ping leadership in Riot and agreements are made or targets ignored for the sake of that other guild to have some enjoyment. The overwhelming majority of Riot are completely acceptable to this.

If there is even the slightest hint of impropriety, Riot concedes the target and moves on.

How about GM's make a new rule that Riot splits all loot with the petitionfest whiner guilds that actually do the things Riot is accused of?

Will that sate your inability to compete and stop this madness?

ToV competitive clearing is fun and much more enjoyable to a stupid "FTE OURS" login and logout game.


TLDR; plz dont take my free vulak, also everyone else cheats on purpose except us

[kaizersoze]

Okay what's your point? Technicality vs Cheating. Hopefully you guys practice your racing with these two freebies.

I know I am. I did not do great but at least I tried :)

[Bagavan]

Why would there be concessions when these new raid rules were never posted? Also, the new raid changes that were discussed in this underground chat never said anything about pull assists going past the line after a spawn right? Confused what the issue is here. I'm guessing Riot leveraged a "conceded" Statue they never actually had FTE on for some King Tormaxs?

???

[Goodest]

Okay what's your point? Technicality vs Cheating.

Well the point is your guild caused your alliance to forfeit two mobs for two weeks. The idea is your officers were aware of the issue and still killed the mobs and took 4-5 days to write the concedes, the old concede the mob at 10% "detoxx's MO" doesn't go with fourus kill the mob in front of us and concede two later. The issue is inside your alliance it seems not outside.

[Fammaden]

Why doesn't Riot just join the glorious Freedom Guard alliance?

[Fammaden]

Then it would be F/R/AG. How badass is that?

[Goodest]

Then freedom would not exists. Freedoms vision is written to remove the server oppression of the ZERG Riot.

[xdrcfrx]

Then freedom would not exists. Freedoms vision is written to remove the server oppression of the ZERG Riot.

Yes, of course. And they're doing that by....consistently teaming up with the other giant zerg to form an even bigger zerg? You all had like 150 at AOW the other day. Lets not pretend there's a material difference between zerg1 and zerg2.

[xdrcfrx]

Yes, of course. And they're doing that by....consistently teaming up with the other giant zerg to form an even bigger zerg? You all had like 150 at AOW the other day. Lets not pretend there's a material difference between zerg1 and zerg2.


Should be "they" instead of "you." I don't know what guild you're in. stupid not being able to edit posts in RnF.

[Fammaden]

This would all be much simpler if we all just merged into one big mega guild.

[kaizersoze]

This would all be much simpler if we all just merged into one big mega guild.

But then who would Dannyl, Detoxx, Conda, and Furor tell to get good?

[drackgon]

Gotta ask because I don't play on blue.
"Then freedom would not exists. Freedoms vision is written to remove the server oppression of the ZERG Riot."

I am guessing freedom made a guild to help fix the servers toxic raid environment. Anyone care to explain anyways they actually helped? Like how did they plan to do this, what failed, what worked.

Bc reading forums seems blue raid environment is still a shit show. And lets face it green is right there, I personally would like to see green be a better place.

[Allishia]

Can't wait for next Kael race! I have been practicing and I have to beat furoar :p

[xdrcfrx]

I am guessing freedom made a guild to help fix the servers toxic raid environment.



Can probably stop right there. Freedom made a guild to benefit themselves, just the same way Riot formed and operates to benefit itself. No one is altruistic, here. Freedom's only problem with the current meta is that they aren't the ones who benefit the most from it. Do you think fif they were winning the majority of mobs in the current meta, that they would be in favor of a change that would result in them getting less?

[kaizersoze]

Gotta ask because I don't play on blue.
"Then freedom would not exists. Freedoms vision is written to remove the server oppression of the ZERG Riot."

I am guessing freedom made a guild to help fix the servers toxic raid environment. Anyone care to explain anyways they actually helped? Like how did they plan to do this, what failed, what worked.

Bc reading forums seems blue raid environment is still a shit show. And lets face it green is right there, I personally would like to see green be a better place.

Actually things were going relatively well (in my opinion) after Aftermath was slain and AG / Riot had a few different agreements that were favorable to QOL to both parties. Third parties probably could have gotten into them if they'd asked, but after the AG / AM merge and AM dumped a bunch of transfer DKP, they formed Guild / Renamedguild / Ghxst, which swiftly died, then formed Freedom for the illusion of third party competition which is (roughly) 70 people top pop, more often than not like 30-40ish though. Numbers growing since they sucked up some of the aegis folks and siphoning off AG bit by bit as they team with them.

Theyre good players, but a few of them (mostly leadership) have reps that make people not want to play with them.

[Dogma]

Fucking led by wolves strikes again. How many burner accounts do you have?Something something rent-free ?
lol

Struggle is real.

[Samoht]

Riot leadership makes an effort to play by the rules and offers concessions when we screw up, without fail and without stalling.

What is this facade? Riot has no dignity when it comes to playing by the rules. They will straight up train you then accuse you of training yourself. Riot has no ethics when it comes to reporting infractions of others as they will report you any time for any thing, even when what you are doing is not against the rules.

I have never read anything quite as absurd on this forum, and I've been here for too long.

[Dman2701]

Show fraps

[Samoht]

Somebody get the fraps of Riot training AG at Lady M a couple weeks ago and then blame it on Kondoro.

[Samoht]

You assholes single-handedly ran him off the server.

[Zipity]

Had a guildie yesterday clearing hole entrance for exp, two riot zone in and start killing the mobs saying it was THEIR camp and they just had to run to FEAR real quick for something but are back now... LOL

[Dman2701]

Ohhhhh you mean when Kondoro Agroed Vyldin Flamereaver and socials it on our kiters getting him killed.
I got you fam...but i like the narrative you try to make .
See at the 2 second mark the flurry agro ontop Kondoro than our kiter gets low hp agro and the flurry kills him since he had social agro.

https://youtu.be/HyUE7rQD5Ts

[Dman2701]

This is fun, what other ones you got that your officers clearly didn't share fraps with your guild because they knew they were in the wrong but it fits their narrative that we are evil.

[Ripqozko]

Look at people without warder gear fighting over mobs we put on farm for you, you are welcome.

[Samoht]

Ohhhhh you mean when Kondoro Agroed Vyldin Flamereaver and socials it on our kiters getting him killed.
I got you fam...but i like the narrative you try to make .
See at the 2 second mark the flurry agro ontop Kondoro than our kiter gets low hp agro and the flurry kills him since he had social agro.

https://youtu.be/HyUE7rQD5Ts

So your kiter pulled a second drake on top of him and died? I'm kind of shocked that you're not only admitting to the train but you're providing evidence to back it up.

[Dman2701]

Kandoro was standing at 4 way ans agro a flurry drake and dropped it on our kiter. How can you even mix this up you can see the flurry agro on him and attack him

[Twochain]

Ohhhhh you mean when Kondoro Agroed Vyldin Flamereaver and socials it on our kiters getting him killed.
I got you fam...but i like the narrative you try to make .
See at the 2 second mark the flurry agro ontop Kondoro than our kiter gets low hp agro and the flurry kills him since he had social agro.

https://youtu.be/HyUE7rQD5Ts

This 8 second clip proves nothing to me. First of all, once again, there are a metric fuck load of people right there. Your 8 second fraps doesn't prove Kondoro agro'd it first. You run around the corner, and it's attacking Firsfle. Not to mention, there are numerous members from all 3 guilds RIGHT there. Furthermore, if it's a 360 flurry drake, why didn't you guys account for it before you engaged? Why did your kiter have low HP agro? Was it because he agro'd it first? Who did it agro first? Did it kill anybody before it killed Firfisle?

Looks like a shit show to me