Made a Ranger last night to see how bad they really were, this was the result. [Archive]

Daddypig

08-13-2020, 12:02 AM

Hey everyone, so my Wizard is 43 now and I thought it's time to make a melee alt to kind of mix things up a bit. I was between Bard and Ranger mostly, but ultimately decided to try out a Ranger since I've heard so often that they're the worst class in the game, can't solo, die constantly, and have more downtime between kills than a Wizard lol.

So I thought "Hey, let's try that out and see how it goes!". So, I made a Ranger last night, twinked it with some basic stuff like banded, some str/dex/wis items, and some hp rings etc. (borrowing an FBSS from a friend)

I leveled to 7 faster than I've ever leveled to 7 on any class before. I started killing wisps at level 2. I went to NK to hand in some Lightstones I had, then this happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvSgA3xyjSw

pickled_heretic

08-13-2020, 10:36 AM

You bummed a sow and spent 20 mins to kill a single red mob. Every class can do that.

Widan

08-13-2020, 10:56 AM

http://wiki.project1999.com/Ranger_Guide_to_Solo_Killing_Red_HGs

Daddypig

08-13-2020, 11:07 AM

http://wiki.project1999.com/Ranger_Guide_to_Solo_Killing_Red_HGs

I'd never seen this before, thanks for sharing! I assumed Str was more important than Dex for bow kiting, but judging by what this guy said, it seems Dex is the stat to go for huh?

I'll try and pick up some dex gear and see if it makes a difference, thanks!

Sabin76

08-13-2020, 11:38 AM

Be careful with that... I haven't tested anything myself, but the scuttlebutt on the forums is that STR affects bow damage, not DEX. Perhaps DEX affects hit chance, though?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242638

Jibartik

08-13-2020, 11:41 AM

A werewolf hunter! V cool.

edit: AHAHAhah looks like you gotta keep huntn'

drackgon

08-13-2020, 12:51 PM

Awesome job man. Bows are still nice and broken in classic. Get bags full and go out and slowly kite reds solo:)

Ivory

08-13-2020, 02:05 PM

Archery is the one true greatest power in Norrath!! (Well, also bone magics)

The world has been sleepin on the power of archers.... but rise up fellow bowlievers, we must show them the true glory of the ways of the bendy branch!

Jibartik

08-13-2020, 02:48 PM

I always thought rangers should have been a alternate version of bard mechanics, not caster so they could be this like mobile single target DPS thing.

Tankwipe

08-13-2020, 03:43 PM

Use tell windows, heathen

uygi

08-13-2020, 05:39 PM

Use tell windows, heathen
Keep your disgusting anticlassicality away from us, heathen

Zuranthium

08-13-2020, 07:26 PM

Twinking a melee character doesn't show anything relevant and Rangers in pre-Kunark era are comparatively better than they are at high levels in Kunark. They are still one of the weaker classes pre-Kunark, but it's very marginal and more situational; compared to other melee they are fine.

Trexller

08-13-2020, 07:44 PM

You bummed a sow and spent 20 mins to kill a single red mob. Every class can do that.

that werewolf is lvl 25-32, the ranger killed it solo at lvl 7 or at least got it to flee.

list of classes that would just be dead against a werewolf at lvl 7.

Cleric druid shaman ench mage necro wizard could not land spells on that mob. pets at lvl 7 would just get wrecked. bards wouldn't get there.

warrior can probably bow kite. big maybe on sk/pal with lower bow skill.

rogue / monk might eventually kill it with throwing weapons, maybe.

the class utility debate is as old as EQ

strengths or weaknesses aside, rangers are fun to play and thats why people play them.

Bigsham

08-13-2020, 08:25 PM

i was killing sand giants at 12 on red as a war, nothing to see here folks

pickled_heretic

08-14-2020, 03:08 AM

list of classes that would just be dead against a werewolf at lvl 7.

None of em. We got a sow. I dunno if we can kill him with throwing weapons (by doing more dmg than his regen), but if we can, almost any class can kill him. It doesn't matter, though, because it wasn't an efficient use of time for the ranger either.

Bigsham

08-14-2020, 09:48 AM

xp nerfs on titanium, on classic if you killed a giant at a silly level you would get 10 levels !

here you probably get a blue

Ivory

08-14-2020, 09:59 AM

Sure any bow using class can do the same early on....

BUT things become much more different as levels increase and the gaps in bow skills become too much to reasonably kill things in a decent time.

Ranger criticals and their spells put them far far ahead (shadow archers are pretty good for their offensive dots and the pet... but they can't quad kite like rangers can do at 15).

Rangers have the same mana formula as a druid, so they have the manapool to actually be effective with magic as a main source of damage. The difference is it isn't a burst type of damage, but instead just sustained range DPS.

Is it the highest DPS? nope.... but it's unique in its strengths.

Skarne

08-14-2020, 10:14 AM

Turks u da real MVP

Nomadic Plainswalker

08-14-2020, 12:44 PM

Anyone who says a Ranger can't solo has never played a Ranger or is really bad at EQ.

YendorLootmonkey

08-14-2020, 12:55 PM

There is a very small overlap between:

1) people who understand that a ranger can bow-kite red-con shit around until it dies; and
2) people who enjoy bow-kiting red-con shit around until it dies as a sole means of XPing

In fact, the intersection of both groups of people probably just includes Ivory. ;)

Nomadic Plainswalker

08-14-2020, 01:16 PM

That intersection must be larger as I have no problem exping and I do not solely bow kite. Smart tanking, DOTs, DS, mixed in with bow works really well for me.

Jimjam

08-14-2020, 01:37 PM

YendorLootmonkey

08-14-2020, 01:48 PM

That intersection must be larger as I have no problem exping and I do not solely bow kite. Smart tanking, DOTs, DS, mixed in with bow works really well for me.

I'm not saying it doesn't work... I'm just saying when I measure my fun and XP gain in 4 hours of doing this against grouping in a level-appropriate zone with a functional group**, the soloing route comes up far short. When Ivory measures it, IT IS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!@# ;) lol

The only time this has ever been fun for me was with EQ/AM3 in Luclin, and by that level range, most everything summons.

** I also understand functional groups are hard to come by and some solo XP gain is better than zero (or negative) XP.

Bigsham

08-14-2020, 02:02 PM

I'm not saying it doesn't work... I'm just saying when I measure my fun and XP gain in 4 hours of doing this against grouping in a level-appropriate zone with a functional group**, the soloing route comes up far short. When Ivory measures it, IT IS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!@# ;) lol

The only time this has ever been fun for me was with EQ/AM3 in Luclin, and by that level range, most everything summons.

** I also understand functional groups are hard to come by and some solo XP gain is better than zero (or negative) XP.

Plenty of stuff to exp on that does not summon

Everything in fungus grove is blue and does not summon, garbage in the deep too
All crap in plane of disease, frogs in storms, diakus on upper level and plenty of room, all of plane of fire easy side, in gates you got yxxta primal areas huge exp, even in gates you got wall of slaughter easy side etc

7thGate

08-14-2020, 02:52 PM

<3 Archery, can do really good stuff with it. Bow kiting reds is fun but you need to be able to get a large quest XP boost from the kills for it to be remotely efficient.

Its too bad Shardwing Courier isn't on a faster respawn or it would be a legitimately reasonable XP bow kiting target for level 45 at least, probably a little less for lower levels because you would hit the quest XP cap. I don't know of any green eqivalents, maybe bow kiting gnolls for splitpaw hide scrolls?

Trexller

08-14-2020, 03:12 PM

None of em. We got a sow. I dunno if we can kill him with throwing weapons (by doing more dmg than his regen), but if we can, almost any class can kill him. It doesn't matter, though, because it wasn't an efficient use of time for the ranger either.

SoW is like, a given. Considered more a necessity than a buff.

That mob is 20 levels above the ranger, would have been a massive xp hit for the time spent killing it.

Baler

08-14-2020, 03:33 PM

EXP cap is 11% per kill (sometimes rounds up to 12%)
Thanks to Danth for setting me straight on this.

Waste of time to kill anything higher than what gives that.

Trexller

08-14-2020, 04:48 PM

Can we somehow calculate the level range of mobs to provide us with 11% per kill?

7thGate

08-14-2020, 05:15 PM

https://wiki.project1999.com/Experience_table may work if its accurate. Rangers would be able to get up to 40% more XP than other classes from over the cap stuff due to XP penalty.

11% per kill is obviously a lot though. It looks like a ranger would get about 11% off of a level 40 kill at level 18.

pickled_heretic

08-14-2020, 05:20 PM

By all means if you are having fun you're winning EQ but killing exp capped mobs one at a time at a rate of 3-4 every hour while relying on buffs from other classes is not many people's version of fun

If you wanna extoll the virtues of a ranger there are other, more reasonable ways to do it, e.g. snare and track are often good enough reasons to include them in a duo with some other classes, as long as you can both swallow the shit pill known as the 40% exp penalty

Baler

08-14-2020, 05:55 PM

In my vast experience power leveling other players. I try to get mobs that are 5 to 10 levels higher than the player.

Zem is a huge factor in getting that 11% exp cap.
With all the zem changes on p99 it's made it far easier to PL without disrupting zones.

Here is a real number from green... I can dig more out my log file but meh
a level 12 ranger will get 10% from a level 28-30 aviak avocet in SK

tsuchang

08-14-2020, 06:01 PM

Soloing my ranger, sometimes i pull with snare, then double dot and mele em. If I get down in hp, i root em then back off and heal myself up and go at em again.
I like the snare em and shoot em while backing up method. The spiders in wk gave me some levels and plat that way.
I like to play for fun mostly. Leveling up is good but is over rated sometimes, unless that is what you are playing for.
I have some plat grinding spots that get tedious after a while. It has to be fun or I will log.
We all have our fav way of playing This game, you do you better than anyone else.
live long and prosper.

Daddypig

08-15-2020, 05:01 AM

Here is a real number from green... I can dig more out my log file but meh
a level 12 ranger will get 10% from a level 28-30 aviak avocet in SK

My Ranger is still 11 atm because I've been focusing on getting my Wizard to 46, but now that's out of the way. So I think I'll hop on the Ranger in a couple hours and give Aviaks a shot, thanks for the suggestions!

Tethler

08-19-2020, 06:20 AM

Bow kiting is nice for sniping loot dropping named. Very early on in green, I was able to bow kite Karg Icebear (level 35ish) for his zweihander when i was level 22 or 23. Got me a sword that I used for 15 levels.

As a means of xp gain, not worth.

Also, depending on the mob, sow might not be necessary. I did Karg without sow by strafe running and jump shotting him for 20 minutes. Damn near got a cramp in my hands by the end, haha.