The player-moderated Ancient Cyclops list is a disaster.

[beh]

https://kingdomdkp.com/eqdkp/index.php/External/Ac-list-18.html?b451b83d

Friends, have a look at this shit, and settle in for story time.

For those who don't know, this is the purely player-run list for the AC in OOT. Seems like a wonderfully utopian solution to a highly contested camp. Everyone sits around a campfire singing Kumbaya, peacefully waiting until their turn is up.

Except, it's not like that... AT ALL. Names are moved around or deleted with no recourse, and sometimes, the entire list even gets randomly wiped on a whim because *anyone* has edit access, and there is no set rule as to what happens when it's the middle of the night and nobody on the list is available to come take their turn, since you do NOT have to remain in OOT to stay on the list. You don't even have to be logged on! HOW AMAZING! You too can play EQ... without actually PLAYING IT! WOW!

This leads me to my tale of being completely fucked over because I was trying to do the right thing for 100+ people by NOT wiping the list when I was the only person left at the camp at 6:00am:

After about a week and a half I was FINALLY #1 on the list at 5:00am est, but alas; I missed my chance because I fell asleep at the camp about 90 minutes prior. When I woke up and was told "sorry that happened to you", I understood, and reluctantly requested to be added back to the bottom of the list. Yup, I went from #1 to #100 - just like that - but hey, rules are rules, and we've all agreed to play nice.

Now, knowing full well that this list has been wiped out completely at least twice in the last month, because no one was available to take the camp in the wee hours of the morning, I figured I would wait around. Maybe I'd get to be the lucky one who is there when the list falls apart again. After all, I just had a nice nap, I'm still "working from home", and both of the aforementioned resets of the entire list happened when I was somewhere in the 40'ish range, after weeks of waiting. Didn't want that to happen again. About twenty minutes later, the person who was #1 gets their ring, and ... surprise!!! He couldn't find anyone next on the list that was online. There was no one to take over, but me! Hooray!!!

At that point, I had an attack of conscience. How could I live with wiping this list? 100+ people would all wake up to disappointment, just like I had at least twice before, and I would likely be vilified by those who don't understand the rules... SO, I offered to take the next AC spawn, but NOT WIPE THE LIST, even though per the rules and past precedent, I should have done so and put myself at #1, starting over, and screwing everyone. But why? I didn't have a problem holding down the fort until I got my ring, in hopes that someone else who was next would finally log on and resume the list in good faith.

I expressed my intentions to the outgoing list-holder who already just got his ring - but he adamantly remained at the camp and claimed it was all his until someone else showed up. He claimed "I couldn't possibly check the entire list to see who was online before the agreed upon 2 PH's causes the list to reset!"

I should have deleted the list right then and there, but my silly conscience got the best of me again, and I still held out hope for a diplomatic and logical conclusion. Twenty minutes goes by (that's about 3 PH's), and he finally finds a nice halfling druid who was about #45 on the list, who had no idea of the context surrounding him being called to come take the camp. Now, I figure, "well, even though I'm at the bottom of the list now, at least half the list will be skipped since #45 is the next man up who's actually online."

But no. No, no, no. That's not what happened.

Instead of removing everyone who was offline or unable to come, and moving on to the person he DID eventually find at #45, he just moved that person to #1 and kept the entire list otherwise intact... resulting in 40 people - who were not even logged on for their turn remaining on the list unscathed.

But me? I only missed my turn by a little over an hour... and I was online the entire time sitting at the camp, albeit asleep for a few hours, but the list-holder's answer? Too bad, so sad. So, he can keep the list intact and hold the camp for as long as he wants until his pals show up, even after getting his ring, but I can't do the same, even though I have nothing? Again, I guess I should have just dropped 3 ice comets on the next spawn, but it wasn't #45's fault, and it would have been very rude to waste his time. He had no idea what was going on, and just showed up when he was called from another zone.

Of course, now with the time elapsed, more people further down the list started trickling in, and without knowing the full story, and made me out to be a monster for trying to negotiate to take the next spawn, even though I technically did all of them a unnecessary favor by not wiping the list before they even logged on, and allowing the previous list-holder to stall for 20 minutes until his buddy showed up.

In the end, I did not KS anyone, I did not kill any AC's, I preserved the list when I had a chance to wipe it, but I still do not have a ring, and 100 people who are probably still sleeping will get their chance before me (45 of which should have been deleted from the list but never were).

The people who run this list will likely defend it to the hilt because they probably get some type of equity toward loot for putting the time in to maintain it or whatever... but it's absolute dysfunctional nepotistic bullshit with zero accountability, and DEFINITELY NOT CLASSIC.

I know nothing will be done to change this, but one can hope. If you're not even logged on, you shouldn't be allowed to remain on any lists. If you want to play a game, then log on and fucking play it. Jesus Christ.


TL : DR - In summary, my efforts to leave the AC list intact, instead of screwing over 100+ people by wiping it - which I was completely within my right to do - left me with absolutely nothing but slander from those for whom I actually did a favor. Thank you and GFY.

edit: grammar

[Widan]

http://wiki.project1999.com/10_Dose_Blood_of_the_Wolf

[Widan]

And if you want it as a clicky: http://wiki.project1999.com/Star_of_Eyes

There's literally no reason to waste time with this camp at all

[beh]

Thank you for your input, but there are a plethora of reasons why many classes, and specifically wizards, rely on jboots. They're also a requirement to join a number of guilds, and invaluable as a junk buff on raids from right now through the eventual terminal content of this server that is Velious.

But if you'd like to pay for me to blow through an average of 1.5 sow pots per day after kunark hits and I need to solo to get any xp, go ahead and send me a PM and we can set that up.

[Cawin]

As the host of the list, thank you for your feedback.

Moved to Resolved

[Daldaen]

Time to implement /list at AC camp guys.

[galach]

You guys should just come to a player agreement that the player needs to be waiting there instead of just signing up for a list & not having to have a presence.

[Widan]

Thank you for your input, but there are a plethora of reasons why many classes, and specifically wizards, rely on jboots. They're also a requirement to join a number of guilds, and invaluable as a junk buff on raids from right now through the eventual terminal content of this server that is Velious.

But if you'd like to pay for me to blow through an average of 1.5 sow pots per day after kunark hits and I need to solo to get any xp, go ahead and send me a PM and we can set that up.

I'm not sure I understand your point since you need clicky junk buffs that work indoors anyways for raiding? How do Jboots solve any raiding problems?

If you exp for 8 hours a day for 30 days that's barely equal to the cost of Jboots. And SoW pots are 20% faster (*Which means you level faster while quadding*). It's amazing 21 years later people still think Jboots are good. If you have the plat they most certainly are not.

[beh]

As the host of the list, thank you for your feedback.

Moved to Resolved

Wow, you seem like a nice guy from previous encounters with you, but that was an extremely arrogant and dismissive response from someone who should be interested in something like this that publicly represents your guild as incapable of enforcing the rules that you created.

You might think you're doing the server population a favor with this type of list system, but you aren't. There is more daily drama surrounding this camp since this list went into effect than anything I've encountered on p99 in over 10 years. Nearly everyone that I've spoken to about it has complaints.

[beh]

You guys should just come to a player agreement that the player needs to be waiting there instead of just signing up for a list & not having to have a presence.

100% agreed, thank you for your voice of reason.

[beh]

I'm not sure I understand your point since you need clicky junk buffs that work indoors anyways for raiding? How do Jboots solve any raiding problems?

If you exp for 8 hours a day for 30 days that's barely equal to the cost of Jboots. And SoW pots are 20% faster. It's amazing 21 years later people still think Jboots are good. If you have the plat they most certainly are not.

Outdoor raids currently in game:
Plane of Hate
Plane of Fear

Outdoor raids to be added shortly:
Plane of Sky

Outdoor Raids to be added with Kunark:
Gorenaire
Talendor
Severilous
Faydedar
Venril Sathir

Outdoor raids in Velious:
Tunare
Kelorek`Dar
Wuoshi
Klandicar, Sontalak, and various other WW dragons.

I'm sure I missed a few.

Any other retorts?

It's amazing after 21 years that some people still haven't experienced over 50% of the content in this game but think they know everything.

[Cawin]

Wow, you seem like a nice guy from previous encounters with you, but that was an extremely arrogant and dismissive response from someone who should be interested in something like this that publicly represents your guild as incapable of enforcing the rules that you created.

You might think you're doing the server population a favor with this type of list system, but you aren't. There is more daily drama surrounding this camp since this list went into effect than anything I've encountered on p99 in over 10 years. Nearly everyone that I've spoken to about it has complaints.

We didn't create the rules. It's a player agreement based on the foundation on the Server Camp rules.

You are overstating the "drama" on the list. To be quite frank, I figured it would have been wiped and re-established many times by now. We had two early insertions, both from the same guy, anonymously. It was reported and the guy tracked down on his alt within 6 minutes and corrected. Last week we had our first blow-up. Was rectified and Blisting and Menden even commented on it.

You talk about anyone editing it, but failing to mention it has full Audit History and people can and do correct it.

I very intentionally remain hands-off on it unless I'm totally needed.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation and frustrations. Contested camps are always like that in EQ. The vast majority of feedback I hear is positive.

Hope he doesn't mind me sharing this:

Blistig 07/28/2020
I have a strong interest in keeping it going because it's one of the very few player-driven agreements on any server that people actually respect

Hope that helps you understand my response even if you still don't agree with it.

[beh]

If you would like names of the people mentioned in my post that moved #40something to #1 this morning, I'd be happy to share, since your awesome auditing didn't catch that today.

[Widan]

Outdoor raids currently in game:
Plane of Hate
Plane of Fear

Outdoor raids to be added shortly:
Plane of Sky

Outdoor Raids to be added with Kunark:
Gorenaire
Talendor
Severilous
Faydedar
Venril Sathir

Outdoor raids in Velious:
Tunare
Kelorek`Dar
Wuoshi
Klandicar, Sontalak, and various other WW dragons.

I'm sure I missed a few.

Any other retorts?

It's amazing after 21 years that some people still haven't experienced over 50% of the content in this game but think they know everything.

And why can't you use the multiple indoor clickies you will be required to have for these outdoor raids as well?

[Widan]

Here let's do some wizard basic calculations. Let's say quadding from 50-60 in kunark is roughly 50% time gathering killing, and 50% time medding (it will prob take long to gather mobs with all the peeps leveling but for sake of argument).

Jboots give your char 135% speed
SoW pots 155% speed

SoW pots are 14.8% faster. Now if our time is split 50/50 like above that means you will level 7.4% faster using SoW pots while quadding (since speed doesn't matter while medding). Now time spent casting is not factored in yet so let's say it's 1/3 moving 2/3 not, you will still level 5% faster.

Ergo any wiz quad leveling in kunark with jboots will be leveling slower than those with SoW pots. (SoW pots also get slightly faster as you level to 60 so these numbers will be marginally higher)

[Cawin]

If you would like names of the people mentioned in my post that moved #40something to #1 this morning, I'd be happy to share, since your awesome auditing didn't catch that today.

No need. I can see it all. I don't audit or revert or unless needed (same with others). I saw your situation going on this morning, but still have made no attempt to unpack it as others generally have more bandwidth and will report what's needed. I like to let the players involved reach their agreement in a player agreement situation. I have not the time nor authority to instill policy changes on it. It's simply a tool to assist in what people were already doing.

[zodium]

You guys should just come to a player agreement that the player needs to be waiting there instead of just signing up for a list & not having to have a presence.

it owns that the staff want players to make "player agreements" for every conflict camp without ever actually creating a process for doing that, or a place for players to find out such an agreement exists.

[Cawin]

it owns that the staff want players to make "player agreements" for every conflict camp without ever actually creating a process for doing that, or a place for players to find out such an agreement exists.

I would state less critical, but yes. Intent of the hosted list.

[beh]

I don't want the GM's involved; quite the contrary actually; they shouldn't have to deal with complaints about this list once a week as they have been lately. I didn't petition, as you can see from my original post I exhausted every ounce of effort I could do resolve it among players, diplomatically and logically. Pretty much every other camp in the game works itself out, but this list is used as a "pat ourselves on the back" vehicle for those that set it up, and clearly it's more trouble than its worth for the creators, the GM's, and the end users. Thanks but no thanks.

[beh]

Here let's do some wizard basic calculations. Let's say quadding from 50-60 in kunark is roughly 50% time gathering killing, and 50% time medding (it will prob take long to gather mobs with all the peeps leveling but for sake of argument).
It's not 50/50, not even close, so "let's not say" that. Medding is the vast majority of your total time spent, if quadding without clarity.


SoW pots are 14.8% faster. Now if our time is split 50/50 like above that means you will level 7.4% faster using SoW pots while quadding (since speed doesn't matter while medding). Now time spent casting is not factored in yet so let's say it's 1/3 moving 2/3 not, you will still level 5% faster.
Since we've already debunked your completely arbitrary 50/50 theory, all of the above is completely immaterial. Moving on...

(SoW pots also get slightly faster as you level to 60 so these numbers will be marginally higher)

Jboots also scale increased movement speed as the user levels.

Everything you said here is unfounded, and you're grasping at straws because I destroyed your made-up argument. Please go away, you're embarrassing yourself.

[beh]

It's simply a tool to assist in what people were already doing.


I get it, I really do - the intention was to make what already goes on run more smoothly... but it has had the opposite effect. I can send a tell to anyone camping anything and they'll let me know who else is ahead of me and when they're done I'll get a tell. Nary an issue encountered for 50 levels at various different contested camps, whether for XP or loot, because when the vast majority of any list LOGS OFF THE GAME, nobody sits around holding the camp for their pals under the guise of diplomacy and white-knighting for some bogus spreadsheet on one of the top guilds' websites.

[Cawin]

I don't want the GM's involved; quite the contrary actually; they shouldn't have to deal with complaints about this list once a week as they have been lately. I didn't petition, as you can see from my original post I exhausted every ounce of effort I could do resolve it among players, diplomatically and logically. Pretty much every other camp in the game works itself out, but this list is used as a "pat ourselves on the back" vehicle for those that set it up, and clearly it's more trouble than its worth for the creators, the GM's, and the end users. Thanks but no thanks.

This is why I was dismissive from get go. Perception painted with lack of information on realities of it.

Again:

Blistig 07/28/2020
I have a strong interest in keeping it going because it's one of the very few player-driven agreements on any server that people actually respect

Working better than I anticipate and I pat the community on the back for that (or wherever they would like my pats)

I get it, I really do - the intention was to make what already goes on run more smoothly... but it has had the opposite effect. I can send a tell to anyone camping anything and they'll let me know who else is ahead of me and when they're done I'll get a tell. Nary an issue encountered for 50 levels at various different contested camps, whether for XP or loot, because when the vast majority of any list LOGS OFF THE GAME, nobody sits around holding the camp for their pals under the guise of diplomacy and white-knighting for some bogus spreadsheet on one of the top guilds' websites.

Just not true. I hear of camp disputes all the time. Spend some time in LGuk. Feel free to share https://docs.google.com/document/d/19UxBK8wVlS9o2QfqU1iMReqBq9SCldKhG9vVt-3eWtM/edit, I only host it on the site because I feel like typing http://ac.kingdomdkp.com is easier.

[beh]

Regarding your Blistig quote - I love Blistig - he's been wonderful for the community just by existing and being as active as he is - but he can't be everywhere and know everything. If he thinks everyone respects this list, he's not paying enough attention to it.

[Widan]

It's not 50/50, not even close, so "let's not say" that. Medding is the vast majority of your total time spent, if quadding without clarity.


Since we've already debunked your completely arbitrary 50/50 theory, all of the above is completely immaterial. Moving on...



Jboots also scale increased movement speed as the user levels.

Everything you said here is unfounded, and you're grasping at straws because I destroyed your made-up argument. Please go away, you're embarrassing yourself.

You haven't refuted anything. If any time is spent moving at all SoW pots will level you more efficiently. Make up whatever% you like. If it's > 0 SoW pots are better. I think my argument was fairly clear. If you don't want to level as fast as possible just say so.

And also why are you unable to use your indoor clickies outdoors thus forcing you to also get outdoor only clickies?

And JBoots shouldn't scale past 35 so wrong again there

https://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=874&source=Live

[beh]

You haven't refuted anything. If any time is spent moving at all SoW pots will level you more efficiently. Make up whatever% you like. If it's > 0 SoW pots are better. I think my argument was fairly clear. If you don't want to level as fast as possible just say so.

And also why are you unable to use your indoor clickies outdoors thus forcing you to also get outdoor only clickies?

You're a troll, and you're muddying the waters of an argument because you lost. I refuted your ridiculous claim that a wizard spends an equal amount of time medding versus killing, and every point you made thereafter was based on that false premise.

Also, if your SoW fades while you're quadding 4 mobs in a tight circle on a 30x30 space and you don't have jboots, good luck refreshing that potion with a 4.0 second cast time. Raptors in TD anyone? You'd be done... just like this argument. See ya.

[beh]

I just realized I'm arguing game mechanics with someone who thought all raids were indoors. Sorry everyone, I'll ignore him now.

[Widan]

It seems you dont know much about said game mechanics since you don't know what the effect on JBoots does or how much speed it gives.

OP bad at ever quest move to resolved.

[Albanwr]

You guys should just come to a player agreement that the player needs to be waiting there instead of just signing up for a list & not having to have a presence.

[System Shock]

Widan is 100% correct JBoots never scale.
https://i.imgur.com/f0G2vnZ.jpg

[Danth]

if I read the original post correctly then the O.P. got the camp he wanted and nearly his entire annoyance stems from voluntarily attempting to do a job he didn't have to do in the first place. Is the Ancient Cyclops camp on Green treated differently by GMs than other camps? I've never maintained somebody else's list in going on 11 years playing P99. Too much fuss to bother with that; lists suck for all the reasons the original poster seems to have recently discovered.

Danth

[Jibartik]

I suggest a halfling named Ringbarron or something decides to stand there, and keep track of the list, for a small fee, or you cannot get on the list.

Now that's what I call mmo gaming! :o

https://i.imgur.com/Qfom17E.gif

[beh]

if I read the original post correctly then the O.P. got the camp he wanted and nearly his entire annoyance stems from voluntarily attempting to do a job he didn't have to do in the first place. Is the Ancient Cyclops camp on Green treated differently by GMs than other camps? I've never maintained somebody else's list in going on 11 years playing P99. Too much fuss to bother with that; lists suck for all the reasons the original poster seems to have recently discovered.

In the context of the situation, I had 2 or more people who were clearly grouped and knew each other, and were also both the two previous list holders and ring-looters, remaining at the spawn when they should have left, and arguing with me for the 15-20 minutes that it took for the next person to show up that I didn't have the right to wipe the list. I told them that I did not WANT to wipe the list, but I have the right to do so, and because I extended that courtesy instead of just shitting all over everyone, I expected they would be cool about it. They were NOT cool about it, and then violated the very rules they were SO vigilant in being SO literal about to my detriment, by not even clearing the people that were offline, and just moving the next person up to #1 instead... and you think this was an isolated incident? I'm sure it happens every single day. People looking out for their pals, and the edit history is anonymous, so there's no accountability. There's a reason why it takes 2 weeks to get through the list, because people do whatever the hell they want with it.

[Bigsham]

https://kingdomdkp.com/eqdkp/index.php/External/Ac-list-18.html?b451b83d

Friends, have a look at this shit, and settle in for story time.

For those who don't know, this is the purely player-run list for the AC in OOT. Seems like a wonderfully utopian solution to a highly contested camp. Everyone sits around a campfire singing Kumbaya, peacefully waiting until their turn is up.

Except, it's not like that... AT ALL. Names are moved around or deleted with no recourse, and sometimes, the entire list even gets randomly wiped on a whim because *anyone* has edit access, and there is no set rule as to what happens when it's the middle of the night and nobody on the list is available to come take their turn, since you do NOT have to remain in OOT to stay on the list. You don't even have to be logged on! HOW AMAZING! You too can play EQ... without actually PLAYING IT! WOW!

This leads me to my tale of being completely fucked over because I was trying to do the right thing for 100+ people by NOT wiping the list when I was the only person left at the camp at 6:00am:

After about a week and a half I was FINALLY #1 on the list at 5:00am est, but alas; I missed my chance because I fell asleep at the camp about 90 minutes prior. When I woke up and was told "sorry that happened to you", I understood, and reluctantly requested to be added back to the bottom of the list. Yup, I went from #1 to #100 - just like that - but hey, rules are rules, and we've all agreed to play nice.

Now, knowing full well that this list has been wiped out completely at least twice in the last month, because no one was available to take the camp in the wee hours of the morning, I figured I would wait around. Maybe I'd get to be the lucky one who is there when the list falls apart again. After all, I just had a nice nap, I'm still "working from home", and both of the aforementioned resets of the entire list happened when I was somewhere in the 40'ish range, after weeks of waiting. Didn't want that to happen again. About twenty minutes later, the person who was #1 gets their ring, and ... surprise!!! He couldn't find anyone next on the list that was online. There was no one to take over, but me! Hooray!!!

At that point, I had an attack of conscience. How could I live with wiping this list? 100+ people would all wake up to disappointment, just like I had at least twice before, and I would likely be vilified by those who don't understand the rules... SO, I offered to take the next AC spawn, but NOT WIPE THE LIST, even though per the rules and past precedent, I should have done so and put myself at #1, starting over, and screwing everyone. But why? I didn't have a problem holding down the fort until I got my ring, in hopes that someone else who was next would finally log on and resume the list in good faith.

I expressed my intentions to the outgoing list-holder who already just got his ring - but he adamantly remained at the camp and claimed it was all his until someone else showed up. He claimed "I couldn't possibly check the entire list to see who was online before the agreed upon 2 PH's causes the list to reset!"

I should have deleted the list right then and there, but my silly conscience got the best of me again, and I still held out hope for a diplomatic and logical conclusion. Twenty minutes goes by (that's about 3 PH's), and he finally finds a nice halfling druid who was about #45 on the list, who had no idea of the context surrounding him being called to come take the camp. Now, I figure, "well, even though I'm at the bottom of the list now, at least half the list will be skipped since #45 is the next man up who's actually online."

But no. No, no, no. That's not what happened.

Instead of removing everyone who was offline or unable to come, and moving on to the person he DID eventually find at #45, he just moved that person to #1 and kept the entire list otherwise intact... resulting in 40 people - who were not even logged on for their turn remaining on the list unscathed.

But me? I only missed my turn by a little over an hour... and I was online the entire time sitting at the camp, albeit asleep for a few hours, but the list-holder's answer? Too bad, so sad. So, he can keep the list intact and hold the camp for as long as he wants until his pals show up, even after getting his ring, but I can't do the same, even though I have nothing? Again, I guess I should have just dropped 3 ice comets on the next spawn, but it wasn't #45's fault, and it would have been very rude to waste his time. He had no idea what was going on, and just showed up when he was called from another zone.

Of course, now with the time elapsed, more people further down the list started trickling in, and without knowing the full story, and made me out to be a monster for trying to negotiate to take the next spawn, even though I technically did all of them a unnecessary favor by not wiping the list before they even logged on, and allowing the previous list-holder to stall for 20 minutes until his buddy showed up.

In the end, I did not KS anyone, I did not kill any AC's, I preserved the list when I had a chance to wipe it, but I still do not have a ring, and 100 people who are probably still sleeping will get their chance before me (45 of which should have been deleted from the list but never were).

The people who run this list will likely defend it to the hilt because they probably get some type of equity toward loot for putting the time in to maintain it or whatever... but it's absolute dysfunctional nepotistic bullshit with zero accountability, and DEFINITELY NOT CLASSIC.

I know nothing will be done to change this, but one can hope. If you're not even logged on, you shouldn't be allowed to remain on any lists. If you want to play a game, then log on and fucking play it. Jesus Christ.


TL : DR - In summary, my efforts to leave the AC list intact, instead of screwing over 100+ people by wiping it - which I was completely within my right to do - left me with absolutely nothing but slander from those for whom I actually did a favor. Thank you and GFY.

edit: grammar

Imagine posting this monday morning and realizing you have no career or money in the bank and are too invested in everquest in 2020

[kauvian]

You guys should just come to a player agreement that the player needs to be waiting there instead of just signing up for a list & not having to have a presence.

This seems like such a good idea!

[Thelion]

When i got my ring an early morning and no one else was there or online, i just kept at it. 3 hours later i had 2 more rings corpsed when #5 showed up and passed the camp to him. NBD

[beh]

Imagine posting this monday morning and realizing you have no career or money in the bank and are too invested in everquest in 2020

Imagine using the "people who play video games have no life" line in 2020, on a forum dedicated to a video game, and thinking that it won't look like blatantly pathetic projection. If you can't handle playing video games and managing your real life simultaneously, that's a you problem, son.

[beh]

This seems like such a good idea!

One more time for the people in the back

[beh]

When i got my ring an early morning and no one else was there or online, i just kept at it. 3 hours later i had 2 more rings corpsed when #5 showed up and passed the camp to him. NBD

That's wonderful, and you are within your right to do that if nobody showed up... but did you have the two previous list holders there threatening to lawyerquest you? I don't need to be blackballed by a bunch of neckbeards over some run-speed pixels, you know? I normally much enjoy the social aspect of this game when it doesn't involve nepotism disguised as charity.

[zodium]

I would state less critical, but yes. Intent of the hosted list.

not everyone on p99 knows about your random website. not everyone on p99 speaks english for that matter. this shit should be on project1999.com. it should be ingame. if the staff expects these agreements to work, some random dude should not be running this at all.

this was exactly the same problem we had with 8th rings on blue. i literally did jimjam's dumb ringbarron suggestion. we still ended up having people roll up not knowing there was an agreement to know about, and just turning in.

[Jungleberry]

Just do what I did. Buy the MQ and avoid the toxic.

[Scalem]

If only AC spawned in other zones that didn't require you to join some stupid list.

[jerryR]

TLDR: Guy puts name on a list; guy waits a week without actively having to do anything; guy is sleeping when it's his turn. Guy gets put on back of list. Guy sticks around and gets whiff he might be able to bypass the entire line by resetting it; someone further on the list than him shows; guy rants about it all day and night and now actively tries to ruin it for everyone

[camp1133]

The list is way better than the alternatives... namely /list or just sitting there till you fall asleep. You can see what your position is, and do a /who all the people in front of you to check out your relative chance of handling the list. The only people the ac.kingdomdkp.com list is NOT better for is for druids and wizards, because they can bind and port. Everyone else? The list is great.

[TheSurgeon]

So,

Nerd A got ring.

Nerd B103 was at the camp, awake, prepared to engage for the next spawn.

Nerd A kept the camp after having the ring, but kept trying to reach Nerds B1-B102, none responded.

Nerd B103 got pissed.

Nerd A still kept killing PHs telling him someone on the elf list will eventually show.

Finally Nerd B45 comes trotting up to take them camp while Nerd A has been holding down the fort.


Is that correct?

If it was m, Nerd A gets their ring, if no one else is present to claim the camp, then all 100 or 500 nerds can get fucked. Nerd A don't get to hold down the camp still. The entire "player agreement" sounds completely ridiculous, and I can't believe anything other than pixel avarice is winding up the world over this camp.

Pretty simple. If you own a camp, finally receive the loot of the camp, and no one else is present to take over the camp, then each and every nerd can suck a dick at that point.

[Taiku]

Just start your own list! with blackjack and hookers

But yeah, I mean if I was camping it (which I don't care to do) and there was someone there waiting in line, they get the next spot. Seems like the easiest thing to do, if you want the item you wait at the camp.

[Taiku]

Though thinking about it, with the creation of this list system, the chances of someone who isn't on the list getting the camp seems much more difficult. Unless you happen to be there when someone is finished, and they also find the 100+ player list to be stupid.

So it does seem to me that this player made list has actually made getting the camp more difficult..? It's just so everyone can do other things while having a MUCH longer waiting period, and is open to manipulation apparently.

Just make it a /list camp and limit to 1 per character like the summon corpse spell? AC in SRO can still be the MQ-able one?

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Here let's do some wizard basic calculations. Let's say quadding from 50-60 in kunark is roughly 50% time gathering killing, and 50% time medding (it will prob take long to gather mobs with all the peeps leveling but for sake of argument).

Jboots give your char 135% speed
SoW pots 155% speed

SoW pots are 14.8% faster. Now if our time is split 50/50 like above that means you will level 7.4% faster using SoW pots while quadding (since speed doesn't matter while medding). Now time spent casting is not factored in yet so let's say it's 1/3 moving 2/3 not, you will still level 5% faster.

Ergo any wiz quad leveling in kunark with jboots will be leveling slower than those with SoW pots. (SoW pots also get slightly faster as you level to 60 so these numbers will be marginally higher)

It's hugely inefficient though. Essentially half of every SOW pot will be wasted while messing - ie gather mobs, kills mobs, sit and med - and your pot will still have 10+ minutes running on it

[beh]

I can see from browsing the version history on the AC list spreadsheet tonight that someone has been deleting it and spamming gibberish/ascii dicks and stuff on it...

While I do take a slight pleasure in seeing it, as it proves my point that the list can be fucked with by any random clown, this is not my handiwork. Immaturity and mayhem is not my goal.

/shrug

[Bigsham]

If only AC spawned in other zones that didn't require you to join some stupid list.

On aradune he spawns from any seafury cyclops and the island is 10x as big and has 5 x the spawns its so much better !

Even gornit has 10 spawn points and walks around !

[Fammaden]

Just do what I did. Buy the MQ and avoid the toxic.

Seriously dude. Farm plat. Do so on your own time, while sleeping a normal ass schedule in your actual bed, and chatting only with the other players you choose to without any unwanted drama. Buy an MQ from whatever random greedy druid ports into SRO every time there's a chance for an AC to kill, and move on with your wizarding life.

[galach]

Don't think anyone wants it /listed

player agreement that you need to have a presence in OOT to remain on the list & be able to clear the PH's sounds more reasonable.

[Bigsham]

I can see from browsing the version history on the AC list spreadsheet tonight that someone has been deleting it and spamming gibberish/ascii dicks and stuff on it...

While I do take a slight pleasure in seeing it, as it proves my point that the list can be fucked with by any random clown, this is not my handiwork. Immaturity and mayhem is not my goal.

/shrug

complains about immaturity , plays online video games infested with trannies weirdos drug addicts and stay at home bearded sons

See you in turdgadin !

[ldgo86]

Widan is 100% correct JBoots never scale.
https://i.imgur.com/f0G2vnZ.jpg

This is beautiful. Really puts how fast a bard is in perspective.

[Cawin]

I can see from browsing the version history on the AC list spreadsheet tonight that someone has been deleting it and spamming gibberish/ascii dicks and stuff on it...

While I do take a slight pleasure in seeing it, as it proves my point that the list can be fucked with by any random clown, this is not my handiwork. Immaturity and mayhem is not my goal.

/shrug

Cool. And more hyperbole. Was one ascii dick. Purdy good looking one though. First time it's been defaced ever and I'm sure it was a direct result of this forum post. Anyways, was corrected several minutes later.

By design it can be edited by anyone, just like in-game. Again, it's a tool that's backed up by the limited server enforced rules and player justice. They weren't happy about the defacement and just kept on trucking. Literally 67 people watching it at this very moment. Nothing get past them. There been 4 actual concerning events in it's history. 2 were the same guy inserting himself into list who was tracked down on an alt minutes after and discussed. 3rd was the situation last week when someone wanted to reboot the list (people and support staff were not happy). 4th was the dick. Outside of that there was 2 times people typo'd (put EQ / commands into list) and 2 times people reported to me that Blistig was on the list twice. Told them to go ahead and petition that. haha. Again, working better than I ever anticipated.

[DMN]

Player mediated/moderated/menstruated; it's all the same old shit from the same old cunts.

Expect less, get more. You'll be happier in life -- including your sim elf one.

[Vdaria]

looks like someone blew up the list and is holding it hostage. was fun while it lasted.

[Scalem]

On aradune he spawns from any seafury cyclops and the island is 10x as big and has 5 x the spawns its so much better !

Even gornit has 10 spawn points and walks around !

Sounds like a perfect server for you.

[Taiku]

Don't think anyone wants it /listed

player agreement that you need to have a presence in OOT to remain on the list & be able to clear the PH's sounds more reasonable.

Yeah, I think that does sound better, something other than this huge offline list of people

[cd288]

On aradune he spawns from any seafury cyclops and the island is 10x as big and has 5 x the spawns its so much better !

Even gornit has 10 spawn points and walks around !

Sounds sad. Looks like you enjoy games like WoW

[cd288]

So,

Nerd A got ring.

Nerd B103 was at the camp, awake, prepared to engage for the next spawn.

Nerd A kept the camp after having the ring, but kept trying to reach Nerds B1-B102, none responded.

Nerd B103 got pissed.

Nerd A still kept killing PHs telling him someone on the elf list will eventually show.

Finally Nerd B45 comes trotting up to take them camp while Nerd A has been holding down the fort.


Is that correct?

If it was m, Nerd A gets their ring, if no one else is present to claim the camp, then all 100 or 500 nerds can get fucked. Nerd A don't get to hold down the camp still. The entire "player agreement" sounds completely ridiculous, and I can't believe anything other than pixel avarice is winding up the world over this camp.

Pretty simple. If you own a camp, finally receive the loot of the camp, and no one else is present to take over the camp, then each and every nerd can suck a dick at that point.

I agree with you

[Swish]

I say /list it, lists are fair.

[Poetic]

Obviously the OP put up with some serious crap or he wouldn’t have posted a novel about it. The truth is, he is right and you all are some greedy pixel hungry dbags if you are attacking him. Everyone in their right mind knows p1999 camps are a total shit show.

[beh]

Cool. And more hyperbole. Was one ascii dick. Purdy good looking one though.

Hyperbole? Come on man. There's like a half dozen edits just tonight in which someone deleted most or all names and typed "go fuck yourself" and other gibberish in bold large point font. It doesn't matter because it's easily restorable, I get it.

I don't think I'm alone in my opinion that no camp list in EQ should ever get large enough to require a damn spreadsheet. If you want the camp, sit at the camp and wait your turn. If you have to log off, try again tomorrow. The only rule we need is a prevention of holding the camp to corpse-horde multiple rings if there is a player physically at the camp waiting for a turn.

For those concerned that they'll never get a chance without a hokey-pokey google list, I can tell you that these repeated incidents of frustrating vagueness and tom-fuckery surrounding whether or not the list should reset when no one is around proves there are plenty of fair opportunities to take over camp.

[beh]

Also, it should be emphasized again that a large number of people on this list are regulars that add themselves back to the list immediately after getting their ring of the ancients. If you require people to be PRESENT to remain on the list, this kind of passive farming is discouraged, and those who prioritize the camp because they actually need the boots will get more opportunities. As it stands now, we have the same crowd of farmers extorting the rest of the server for 6k a pop. These are the same people that'll post here that you should "avoid the drama and buy a MQ."

It's ok, say it with me: Fuck those people.

If you want to be a farmer, you shouldn't get to parachute in from the fucking plane of hate, or another plat camp you're farming, just to clog space in front of someone who might not have the desire to raid and farm like you, but just wants some damn jboots to enjoy the game a little more.

[Vdaria]

If you want to be a farmer, you shouldn't get to parachute in from the fucking plane of hate, or another plat camp you're farming, just to clog space in front of someone who might not have the desire to raid and farm like you, but just wants some damn jboots to enjoy the game a little more.

I understand and agree with you, but there's another side to that coin. I manage a retail store, for example, so I rarely have time to play the game. As it is, I'm probably gonna forgo inspecting the store some morning/evening to camp jboots. But If I had to sit at the AC camp until it was available, I would never get jboots. You might say "this is fine; after all, MMOs are timesinks, and it wouldn't be fair to the players who invest more time to water the content down for the players who invest less time. Your job may be incompatible with MMOs, and you should be willing to prioritize accordingly." I don't have a strong response to that other than to say it is healthy for the game and for the player base for more people to have access to gear and experiences, whether it be through open raids or long lists or what have you.

[Izmael]

This just needs to be made a /list camp.

[kauvian]

Make list camps great again!

Bring back the afk checks.

[Lurgort/Sseri]

Also, it should be emphasized again that a large number of people on this list are regulars that add themselves back to the list immediately after getting their ring of the ancients. If you require people to be PRESENT to remain on the list, this kind of passive farming is discouraged, and those who prioritize the camp because they actually need the boots will get more opportunities. As it stands now, we have the same crowd of farmers extorting the rest of the server for 6k a pop. These are the same people that'll post here that you should "avoid the drama and buy a MQ."

It's ok, say it with me: Fuck those people.

If you want to be a farmer, you shouldn't get to parachute in from the fucking plane of hate, or another plat camp you're farming, just to clog space in front of someone who might not have the desire to raid and farm like you, but just wants some damn jboots to enjoy the game a little more.

Wiz here. Jboots gotten: Farmed Hero Bracers for the majority of it. Also Tinkering for Spyglasses/Stalking Probes.

Bind in South Qeynos by the Quest Guy, gate to GFay, Thunderclap down all of the Minos in the cave in Steamfont, kill the almost assuredly spawned Mino Hero, gate, hand-in. Prep another bracer, sell it in EC for 150pp, gate, hand in, gate to NRo.

You could also farm Rings of Shadow in South Karana after grabbing a SoW and clarity, can make 400pp in about 15 minutes doing this and Hero Bracers, 300pp every 10 minutes - of course, it involves time to trade in EC.

Sell ports while auctioning your farmed items, you'll have JBoots in a couple days whilst ignoring all the bullshit of player greed, aside from buying the MQ - mine costed 5750pp, gold included, with my Rapier.

[Castle2.0]

He he he.... Can't find the thread but... I TOLD YOU SO!

People scoffed when I said the player-made list would go to 50+ because of no AFK checks.

Now where is it? 100+

I'll say it again.... 100+

THIS is exactly why AFK-check enforced, hard-coded lists are the only way to do legacy items.

[Castle2.0]

NEVERMIND, found the thread!

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359414

[Cawin]

Hyperbole? Come on man. There's like a half dozen edits just tonight in which someone deleted most or all names and typed "go fuck yourself" and other gibberish in bold large point font. It doesn't matter because it's easily restorable, I get it.

And that's never happened in the history of the list and just happened the same night of this forums post. Coincidence? You win anyways. Had to lock it up after tons of DMO recruitment threads and the n-word was plastered all over it. Blistig had to go out there and manage the resulting shit show. Massive success.

"The floor is always covered in shit"
"It's not, here's historical pictures to prove that"
*Shits on Floor*
*Others Smear it Around*
"See! The floor is always covered in shit!"

[DMN]

NEVERMIND, found the thread!

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359414

I don't see you predict 50+ in that thread, only your claim that you previously did.

This is a prediction.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3069239&postcount=6

Anyways, this player made clusterfuck of a list is also a different animal, being easy to abuse in so many ways, instead of just a handful ways to abuse it like a true /list camp.

[BlackBellamy]

Just do what I did. Buy the MQ and avoid the toxic.

I bought 3 already. 18k full service. I can deal with OOT stress and the list aggro and the time, but I can also farm up 18k in the most relaxing way while making even more friends. In OOT I can only make enemies. Hard pass.

I realize this advice is useless to those not having a farming toon but that's not on me.

[TheSurgeon]

Fuck a /list mechanic, I would just bring The Hand of God down and perma-lockout the ring to one per character.

The AC has been such a shit show for years. It is clear to any sane person the easiest way to go about getting Jboots is to farm the plat instead. Which makes you wonder, if it's easier to farm the plat, then why farm the AC for a MQ? All of the MQs can't be just from SRo luck. Some elf shenanigans are going on somewheres abouts that make farming this hell hole profitable for a select number of people.

I don't want to say there is a Cyclops Mafia within the ranks of elf nerds, but there probably is.

[beh]

Wiz here. Jboots gotten: Farmed Hero Bracers for the majority of it. Also Tinkering for Spyglasses/Stalking Probes.

Bind in South Qeynos by the Quest Guy, gate to GFay, Thunderclap down all of the Minos in the cave in Steamfont, kill the almost assuredly spawned Mino Hero, gate, hand-in. Prep another bracer, sell it in EC for 150pp, gate, hand in, gate to NRo.

You could also farm Rings of Shadow in South Karana after grabbing a SoW and clarity, can make 400pp in about 15 minutes doing this and Hero Bracers, 300pp every 10 minutes - of course, it involves time to trade in EC.

Sell ports while auctioning your farmed items, you'll have JBoots in a couple days whilst ignoring all the bullshit of player greed, aside from buying the MQ - mine costed 5750pp, gold included, with my Rapier.


No. I understand how to farm platinum, and I have plenty of more efficient ways to do so, but I don't need to be forced to go play another part of the game that I'm not interested in for multiple days just to afford to pay someone else who abuses and exploits a bad system to price gouge and gate-keep an item that almost everyone needs. When the only answer is "go do something else and pay a farmer for it", the situation is broken.

[beh]

Fuck a /list mechanic, I would just bring The Hand of God down and perma-lockout the ring to one per character.

The AC has been such a shit show for years. It is clear to any sane person the easiest way to go about getting Jboots is to farm the plat instead. Which makes you wonder, if it's easier to farm the plat, then why farm the AC for a MQ? All of the MQs can't be just from SRo luck. Some elf shenanigans are going on somewheres abouts that make farming this hell hole profitable for a select number of people.

I don't want to say there is a Cyclops Mafia within the ranks of elf nerds, but there probably is.

Every other valuable spawn in this game gets monopolized by the same few people, why would you imagine this one to be any different? This garbage list system just gives them a "sanctioned" way of doing so.

[beh]

I bought 3 already. 18k full service. I can deal with OOT stress and the list aggro and the time, but I can also farm up 18k in the most relaxing way while making even more friends. In OOT I can only make enemies. Hard pass.

I realize this advice is useless to those not having a farming toon but that's not on me.

I can farm, I shouldn't have to do it. Jboots isn't a droppable high end raid item. If it were, you could make this argument.

"Your guild can't handle XYZ mobs so you'll never be able to get that item on your own, just farm plat and buy it!" -- Perfectly fine if we're talking about a Cloak of Flames. Not fuckin' jboots. Sorry.

[beh]

And that's never happened in the history of the list and just happened the same night of this forums post. Coincidence? You win anyways. Had to lock it up after tons of DMO recruitment threads and the n-word was plastered all over it. Blistig had to go out there and manage the resulting shit show. Massive success.

"The floor is always covered in shit"
"It's not, here's historical pictures to prove that"
*Shits on Floor*
*Others Smear it Around*
"See! The floor is always covered in shit!"

Your analogy sucks.

I didn't shit on your floor, I pointed out the shit that you weren't paying attention to - and your "historical pictures" are taken from your pleasant and biased perspective because you created this mess and can't admit it needs to change.

[Castle2.0]

I don't see you predict 50+ in that thread, only your claim that you previously did. Yes and no.

I predicted Manastone /list would blow up to 50+ if there were no AFK checks. Lo-and-behold I overpredicted everyone else, but underpredicted the actual numbers - and that for an item that never leaves game.

I think we can see now, if The Manastone had no afk checks it'd be 150+

[beh]

I understand and agree with you, but there's another side to that coin. I manage a retail store, for example, so I rarely have time to play the game. As it is, I'm probably gonna forgo inspecting the store some morning/evening to camp jboots. But If I had to sit at the AC camp until it was available, I would never get jboots. You might say "this is fine; after all, MMOs are timesinks, and it wouldn't be fair to the players who invest more time to water the content down for the players who invest less time. Your job may be incompatible with MMOs, and you should be willing to prioritize accordingly." I don't have a strong response to that other than to say it is healthy for the game and for the player base for more people to have access to gear and experiences, whether it be through open raids or long lists or what have you.


This list system as it stands is the mechanic that is keeping you and other more casual players away from jboots. There are dozens of people who are re-signing up at the bottom of the list immediately after looting a ring.. multiple times, in perpetuity. They can do this because this list system allows them to sign up and leave the zone or log off, and then parachute in to hang out for maybe an hour tops (sometimes just 6.5 minutes!), loot ANOTHER ring, and gouge you for 6k+ to MQ it.

If this list were gone, those who NEED THE BOOTS (you) can prioritize this camp, instead of being log-jammed by people on a phantom list who are either logged off touching themselves or raiding planes for MORE loot that you might never see.

You will get your boots without this list because you won't have 100 person lists anymore. Only those who are willing to sacrifice doing anything else (good luck top raiding guilds, you guys are pretty busy most days of the week!) will be able to clog up the list with intentions to farm.

[beh]

Yes and no.

Lo-and-behold I overpredicted everyone else, but underpredicted the actual numbers - and that for an item that never leaves game.

I think we can see now, if The Manastone had no afk checks it'd be 150+

CORRECT

[beh]

We didn't create the rules. It's a player agreement based on the foundation on the Server Camp rules.


The server rules don't burden people to maintain a list of 150+ people, 25% or more of which are plat farmers, lest they suffer the wrath of possible GM intervention and/or hordes of angry people who expected to go to sleep and wake up to the Jboots fairy because they couldn't be bothered to go about it the same way we all do at every other camp.

[beh]

It is clear to any sane person the easiest way to go about getting Jboots is to farm the plat instead. Which makes you wonder, if it's easier to farm the plat, then why farm the AC for a MQ? ... Some elf shenanigans are going on somewheres abouts that make farming this hell hole profitable for a select number of people.


DING DING DING - We HAVE a winner folks. Once you have a situation where farming the plat becomes less time-consuming than the actual camp for EVERYONE (not just the ez-farm pet classes), it's obvious that the mechanism creating this log-jam is benefiting a select few... which is why out of the HUNDREDS of people who populate this list every day, there's not even a handful of people on this 9 page thread defending it.

[Ssra]

You all are gonna get AC camp /listed because you can't play nice.

[RecondoJoe]

My name kept disappearing from the list months ago. I said fuck it, made a Shaman and have about 60 SoW potions in the bank and honestly, 6K for a MQ is pretty cheap. Had someone even offer it to me for a tink bag. Would rather spend a night camping guards and buy the MQ even if the list was better managed. Have had a lot of friends do 12+ hours after waiting days and still not get the ring. I can farm 6K in less time than that without any stress.

[BlackBellamy]

I can farm, I shouldn't have to do it. Jboots isn't a droppable high end raid item. If it were, you could make this argument.

"Your guild can't handle XYZ mobs so you'll never be able to get that item on your own, just farm plat and buy it!" -- Perfectly fine if we're talking about a Cloak of Flames. Not fuckin' jboots. Sorry.

I understand your point. But the reality on the ground is that this is a high-stress and unpredictable camp. I fully agree that you and I should be able to camp it without having to dox and murder people to advance. I think though that to have a passable experience in this game you need to identify bottlenecks to progress and work around them. I know it's not optimal to your character's story to not get the ring yourself. It sucks. Still...

[Snortles Chortles]

TakeS a BiG SiP out of a 10 Dose SoW PoTioN

[beh]

High stress and unpredictable? It's a static 6 minute spawn. The stress is created by this excelquest garbage.

[Keebz]

Also, it should be emphasized again that a large number of people on this list are regulars that add themselves back to the list immediately after getting their ring of the ancients.

Don't be so quick to judge! Some of us keep adding ourselves, because we keep getting removed at spot 70.

[TheSurgeon]

Honestly, you just need bigger and better bullies to come by and do away with this farce of a list. The dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen come out of P99 camps.

[Bigsham]

Man camping AC on aradune is great !

[kauvian]

We need a champion to get to #1 and institute a change!

Who will Make Antonica Great Again?

[TheSurgeon]

I'm telling you. Get some non-bitchmade elves to all walk down there, and wait for the current person holding the camp to get their ring. Then that group of people assume that camp because no one else is there to contest.

One of two things will happen. People on the list will have to actual hold a presence at the camp, or the list gets undone by the righteous.

[beh]

Honestly, you just need bigger and better bullies to come by and do away with this farce of a list. The dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen come out of P99 camps.

Yup, community has gone soft since the heyday of blue. The people who know "how things work" at the top, regarding the economy and how the future life of a server like this plays out are taking advantage of the better intentions of the rest of the server with their spreadsheetquest farm conglomerate.

[Graahle]

I'm just out here tryna get enough plat for a PSD since I rolled a rogue as my first and only toon.

[OuterChimp]

WTB Jboots MQ...PST send tells please.

[Baler]

Going to AC in OOT is always a treat, to see the afk people all clustered around the spawn.

[Local]

Yup, community has gone soft since the heyday of blue. The people who know "how things work" at the top, regarding the economy and how the future life of a server like this plays out are taking advantage of the better intentions of the rest of the server with their spreadsheetquest farm conglomerate.

I've seen several claims of shadow farming conglomerates existing on this server, but after having spent an inordinate amount of time at some of the most hotly contested cash camps here, I have sadly never run into one. Can someone point me in the right direction please? I'd like to sign up for one. Kunark spells are expensive.

[adruidarkly]

Am I missing something or would an in-game list like FBE be effectively the same with being more effort, having less audit-ability, and being more prone to cronyism?

It seems to me that all this pissy ax-grinding is because the camp hit an intersection of stupid. OP is stupid for not understanding that if the people ahead of them on a list aren't present to take over the camp, then it falls to them at the next spawn. Doesn't matter if it skips 1 or 10,000. Usually this would be corrected by the camp holder.

But this apparently confused two people or whatever it was currently holding the camp made who were too stupid to GTFO once they got their item. Once the item you are camping for drops, you move on. Those are the rules, they've worked fine for hundreds of players until this assembly of dumbasses showed up. Now you're all mad and making work for CSR because you couldn't work it out yourself.

Congratulations on being stupider than hundreds of people, I guess?

[Crab]

Am I missing something or would an in-game list like FBE be effectively the same with being more effort, having less audit-ability, and being more prone to cronyism?

It seems to me that all this pissy ax-grinding is because the camp hit an intersection of stupid. OP is stupid for not understanding that if the people ahead of them on a list aren't present to take over the camp, then it falls to them at the next spawn. Doesn't matter if it skips 1 or 10,000. Usually this would be corrected by the camp holder.

But this apparently confused two people or whatever it was currently holding the camp made who were too stupid to GTFO once they got their item. Once the item you are camping for drops, you move on. Those are the rules, they've worked fine for hundreds of players until this assembly of dumbasses showed up. Now you're all mad and making work for CSR because you couldn't work it out yourself.

Congratulations on being stupider than hundreds of people, I guess?

Thank you. I honestly cannot believe people are bitching about this system.

[Local]

Am I missing something or would an in-game list like FBE be effectively the same with being more effort, having less audit-ability, and being more prone to cronyism?

It seems to me that all this pissy ax-grinding is because the camp hit an intersection of stupid. OP is stupid for not understanding that if the people ahead of them on a list aren't present to take over the camp, then it falls to them at the next spawn. Doesn't matter if it skips 1 or 10,000. Usually this would be corrected by the camp holder.

But this apparently confused two people or whatever it was currently holding the camp made who were too stupid to GTFO once they got their item. Once the item you are camping for drops, you move on. Those are the rules, they've worked fine for hundreds of players until this assembly of dumbasses showed up. Now you're all mad and making work for CSR because you couldn't work it out yourself.

Congratulations on being stupider than hundreds of people, I guess?

/thread

[Cawin]

Am I missing something or would an in-game list like FBE be effectively the same with being more effort, having less audit-ability, and being more prone to cronyism?

It seems to me that all this pissy ax-grinding is because the camp hit an intersection of stupid. OP is stupid for not understanding that if the people ahead of them on a list aren't present to take over the camp, then it falls to them at the next spawn. Doesn't matter if it skips 1 or 10,000. Usually this would be corrected by the camp holder.

But this apparently confused two people or whatever it was currently holding the camp made who were too stupid to GTFO once they got their item. Once the item you are camping for drops, you move on. Those are the rules, they've worked fine for hundreds of players until this assembly of dumbasses showed up. Now you're all mad and making work for CSR because you couldn't work it out yourself.

Congratulations on being stupider than hundreds of people, I guess?

100% - Move to Resolved

Speaking of which, I had to spend hours last week working through a FBE dispute. Much more time then I've ever had to put into AC list management.

[alkalinesky]

Yup, community has gone soft since the heyday of blue. The people who know "how things work" at the top, regarding the economy and how the future life of a server like this plays out are taking advantage of the better intentions of the rest of the server with their spreadsheetquest farm conglomerate.

This guy gets it.

[BarnabusCollins]

South Ro 9pm

[Izmael]

/list would be amazing for this camp especially because of the lockout mechanism.

Imagine going to OOT because you actually need JBoots.

[Fammaden]

/list would be amazing for this camp especially because of the lockout mechanism.

Imagine going to OOT because you actually need JBoots.

You can substitute any camp name and item name in this statement, be it quest droppable or no drop, and the idea will sound preferable to many or most. But at some point the application of this approach creates a server that isn't actually what we are here for at all.

[Castle2.0]

Doesn't matter if people are skipped.

A list without AFK checks will always be longer than a list with AFK checks in terms of actual # of ppl who end up camping the item you need to to wait behind.

Period.

[beh]

OP is stupid for not understanding that if the people ahead of them on a list aren't present to take over the camp, then it falls to them at the next spawn.

Come on, man. I was trying to do the right thing by the (silly) rules that everyone had agreed upon. I guess you can call that "stupid" if you want, because in hindsight I definitely feel stupid, but if I had to "feel stupid" for trying NOT to shaft 150 people, that further proves my point that this particular version of listquest is broken and needs to go away.

[jerryR]

Rather than just saying it should be scrapped, my suggestions for list improvement: top 6 people must be at camp. If someone in current top 6 leaves, they forfeit their spot and the group members notify the next person on list to get to camp.

Helps with the following problems (including some of OPs gripes):

- more list churn but less likely to end up in a scenario where no one is there to take camp
- prevents line hopping in situations with very long AC spawn time - people leaving and coming back or logging into top positions and bumping others that are presently online
- better ability to estimate your time commitment
- mitigate situations where a person is back to backing with alts
- more transparency
- reduce conflict

At the moment, I think top people on the list are usually hanging pretty close by anyway. This will more organically move through the list by who is online. If you don't have to worry about your #4 spot becoming #10 in the morning after a night of being in camp, you can make a decision if its worth the time commitment (once you're in the group, you get closer to spot 1 not potentially further away due to bad rng and time zones).

[beh]

Am I missing something or would an in-game list like FBE be effectively the same with being more effort, having less audit-ability, and being more prone to cronyism?

It seems to me that all this pissy ax-grinding is because the camp hit an intersection of stupid. OP is stupid for not understanding that if the people ahead of them on a list aren't present to take over the camp, then it falls to them at the next spawn. Doesn't matter if it skips 1 or 10,000. Usually this would be corrected by the camp holder.

But this apparently confused two people or whatever it was currently holding the camp made who were too stupid to GTFO once they got their item. Once the item you are camping for drops, you move on. Those are the rules, they've worked fine for hundreds of players until this assembly of dumbasses showed up. Now you're all mad and making work for CSR because you couldn't work it out yourself.

Congratulations on being stupider than hundreds of people, I guess?


Every other camp in the game works without a google spreadsheet that you can access from outside the game for the purpose of camping it... but not really camping it. You know, playing EQ, but not really playing EQ.

That's where the problem lies. Other camp lists naturally peter themselves out toward the end of the night, with the occasional dedicated poopsocker who hangs out for over 24 hours until he falls asleep.

Scenarios: If I log on to play at a lower traffic time of day, I should be able to have a crack at - or a short list for - a normally contested camp... but I might not be able to find a group for XP, and my guildchat will be pretty quiet. Conversely, if I log on during a high-traffic time of day, I'll be able to get that xp group, or maybe do something with my guild... and thank goodness for that, because there's probably 10+ people waiting for that rare spawn camp. No problem!

The way it stands now, even if it's 6:00am, I can't log on and expect to beat the masses to the rare camp because I have to contend with people who can estimate when the best window of time to show up and usually sit their toons AFK at the camp (a bogus way to retain your place in line) because their name is approaching the top of some list that exists NOWHERE within the actual game itself. You've all turned camping the AC in OOT in to a fucking batphone scenario. Don't we have enough of that in p99?

[Castle2.0]

top 6 people must be at camp. Same problem exists, but it pushes it back to #6. You're still churning tons of people who aren't there to get someone in the #6 slot who is there. There is no way to show the exclusivity of the #6 spot other than the list itself - you don't need to be kill a mob (that only you kill) or anything like that.

Who notifies #8 that #7 didn't show and #8 is supposed to move into the #6 slot? No incentive from 1-5, and #8 isn't sure who to ask.

You're putting in a physical presence test with no one to enforce. Does #8 need to be present to ensure if #7 isn't there that #8 will move into the #6 slot when it vacates?

If #6 leaves, does #7 need to be immediately on? Does he has 2 minutes? 20 minutes? 1 hour?

Then you're making it 7-8+ people need to be at camp, not just 6.

This solution just opens up more problems.

Solution: Keep your silly 100+ list, or have a hard-coded enforced list with AFK checks exactly like legacy items. No elf-litigation or Rube Goldberg'esque mechanics needed.

[jerryR]

Honestly, I think you make excellent points. You don't really need the hyperbole and vitriol of your first pages of posts though...

I think you'd be surprised how difficult it would be for you to get on that camp if it was a complete free for all. You'd spend a lot more time trying to figure out the nuances of that than this .. and wasting way more needless time. The list gives at least a semblance of transparency and a chance for you to camp it - not just be locked into buying MQs in perpetuity

[beh]

It's incredible that I've been playing p99 since before blue released kunark, yet I have people who I don't know from a hole in the wall telling me - over and over again - what my p99 experience would be if it were exactly like it always was.

[Jungleberry]

Imagine relying on a locked list to be accurate and fair.

[Cawin]

"The list is horrible! Worst thing to ever happen!"
*Everyone at camp continues to use list*
...

[beh]

Is that a veiled dare to just start competing for FTE on the spawn instead?

[Cawin]

CSR gonna love that. Again, I don't care. I just provide tools for what people already doing.

[beh]

This thread has been a vivid display of why your tool has enabled morbidly unclassic gatekeeping of a common item from the common player... which is not 'what people were already doing.' I doubt you personally had bad intentions with this list but sometimes things just don't work out.

[Crab]

This thread has been a vivid display of why your tool has enabled morbidly unclassic gatekeeping of a common item from the common player... which is not 'what people were already doing.' I doubt you personally had bad intentions with this list but sometimes things just don't work out.

Worked just fine for me and hundreds of other players.

Maybe you shouldn't have fallen asleep, or had just followed the rules of the list. Nevertheless you should be near the top of the list by now.

[beh]

Same problem exists, but it pushes it back to #6. You're still churning tons of people who aren't there to get someone in the #6 slot who is there. There is no way to show the exclusivity of the #6 spot other than the list itself - you don't need to be kill a mob (that only you kill) or anything like that.

Who notifies #8 that #7 didn't show and #8 is supposed to move into the #6 slot? No incentive from 1-5, and #8 isn't sure who to ask.

You're putting in a physical presence test with no one to enforce. Does #8 need to be present to ensure if #7 isn't there that #8 will move into the #6 slot when it vacates?

If #6 leaves, does #7 need to be immediately on? Does he has 2 minutes? 20 minutes? 1 hour?

Then you're making it 7-8+ people need to be at camp, not just 6.

This solution just opens up more problems.

Solution: Keep your silly 100+ list, or have a hard-coded enforced list with AFK checks exactly like legacy items. No elf-litigation or Rube Goldberg'esque mechanics needed.

Again I'd like to reiterate that the problem that I see is not "needing to be in the zone to remain on the list" .. go ahead and ask to join the list from mistmoore for all I care. The problem is being able to check in on what's happening in the Ocean of Tears ... without even being logged on to EQ - without even being at your PC, actually.

If jboots are a priority to you, and it's not just about cycling yourself through a list that you only have to pay attention to once a week in order to price-gouge people on MQ's, then log your ass on and check in to see if your turn is up soon. If you're #10 but your EQ time for the day is up because your wife says it's time to stop ignoring her, then that's just too bad! You don't get to check your phone while watching Grey's Anatomy and plot out exactly when to log back on in the middle of the night and snipe your AC. Sorry. What this results in is someone who actually wants jboots being told that there are 125 people ahead of them at 2:00am on a Tuesday. RIDICULOUS.

[beh]

Worked just fine for me and hundreds of other players.

Maybe you shouldn't have fallen asleep, or had just followed the rules of the list. Nevertheless you should be near the top of the list by now.

Nah actually I'm still somewhere in the 60's, but thanks for proving my point.

[Sabin76]

I don't see how this list is keeping an item from the "common player". If you're talking about someone who only has a few hours a day to play, then I'd argue this list gives a much better chance (read: non-zero) of getting it than not.

What if this "common player" can only play during peak hours? How is a "common player" supposed to get this camp without a list that this list doesn't also allow?

Put yourself on, wait until near your turn, gate/boat to island, or lose your place. If you lose your place just get put on again. If you get lucky and you happen become #1 while you are on, great! You just got a shot at an item you would 100% have to MQ otherwise.

The ONLY thing people should complain about this system is that you can actually go out and play other aspects of the game while waiting your turn, rather than staring at "A Pirate" every 6 minutes for however long it takes for your turn to come up.

[beh]

I don't see how this list is keeping an item from the "common player". If you're talking about someone who only has a few hours a day to play, then I'd argue this list gives a much better chance (read: non-zero) of getting it than not.

What if this "common player" can only play during peak hours? How is a "common player" supposed to get this camp without a list that this list doesn't also allow?

Put yourself on, wait until near your turn, gate/boat to island, or lose your place. If you lose your place just get put on again. If you get lucky and you happen become #1 while you are on, great! You just got a shot at an item you would 100% have to MQ otherwise.

The ONLY thing people should complain about this system is that you can actually go out and play other aspects of the game while waiting your turn, rather than staring at "A Pirate" every 6 minutes for however long it takes for your turn to come up.

I refer to my last post

Again I'd like to reiterate that the problem that I see is not "needing to be in the zone to remain on the list" .. go ahead and ask to join the list from mistmoore for all I care. The problem is being able to check in on what's happening in the Ocean of Tears ... without even being logged on to EQ - without even being at your PC, actually.

If jboots are a priority to you, and it's not just about cycling yourself through a list that you only have to pay attention to once a week in order to price-gouge people on MQ's, then log your ass on and check in to see if your turn is up soon. If you're #10 but your EQ time for the day is up because your wife says it's time to stop ignoring her, then that's just too bad! You don't get to check your phone while watching Grey's Anatomy and plot out exactly when to log back on in the middle of the night and snipe your AC. Sorry. What this results in is someone who actually wants jboots being told that there are 125 people ahead of them at 2:00am on a Tuesday. RIDICULOUS.

[Snortles Chortles]

hey guys gonna log off for 72 hrs
let me know when my turns up
(LOL)

[beh]

Worked just fine for me and a couple dozen other players that watch this list from our phones all day so we know when to vulture in, over and over again. ^--- FTFY, yw.

Maybe you shouldn't have fallen asleep, or had just followed the rules of the list.

Following the ridiculous rules of this list is what prevented me from getting my AC fairly as I should have per the normal server rules. Nobody was there to claim the camp that didn't already have the ring, except for me, but I got lawyered out of it because I tried to be kind. I know my OP was a bit long, but if you didn't read it, don't reply again. Thanks in advance.

[Scalem]

Every other camp in the game works without a google spreadsheet that you can access from outside the game for the purpose of camping it... but not really camping it. You know, playing EQ, but not really playing EQ.

That's where the problem lies. Other camp lists naturally peter themselves out toward the end of the night, with the occasional dedicated poopsocker who hangs out for over 24 hours until he falls asleep.

Scenarios: If I log on to play at a lower traffic time of day, I should be able to have a crack at - or a short list for - a normally contested camp... but I might not be able to find a group for XP, and my guildchat will be pretty quiet. Conversely, if I log on during a high-traffic time of day, I'll be able to get that xp group, or maybe do something with my guild... and thank goodness for that, because there's probably 10+ people waiting for that rare spawn camp. No problem!

The way it stands now, even if it's 6:00am, I can't log on and expect to beat the masses to the rare camp because I have to contend with people who can estimate when the best window of time to show up and usually sit their toons AFK at the camp (a bogus way to retain your place in line) because their name is approaching the top of some list that exists NOWHERE within the actual game itself. You've all turned camping the AC in OOT in to a fucking batphone scenario. Don't we have enough of that in p99?

Sounds like you would fit in better on a TLP.

[beh]

Sounds like you have stockholm syndrome

[Scalem]

Sounds like you have stockholm syndrome

Says the guy who refuses to do any of the alternative methods for obtaining Jboots.

[beh]

The current method available is invalid, so my alternative method is this campaign to render it inoperative.

[Scalem]

The current method available is invalid, so my alternative method is this campaign to render it inoperative.

I didn't know the S. Ro AC was also part of the "invalid" list.

[beh]

Oh, you're one of those people that says "if you don't like this country you can leave" when people complain about government corruption, right?

[Scalem]

Oh, you're one of those people that says "if you don't like this country you can leave" when people complain about government corruption, right?

How did you come to that conclusion? You are acting like the AC in OoT and this external list are the only possible methods for you to obtain Jboots. Yet you can just walk over to S. Ro and compete for FTE or buy them.

[beh]

I came to that conclusion because you just told me that if I'm dissatisfied with something that I view as unjust, that I should just take the L and go away. Sounds like you have some type of vested interest in shutting me up, because if you were simply uninterested in the topic, or didn't like what I had to say, you could just find something else to read this afternoon, right?

You're acting like page 14 of a post on relatively obscure 20-year old video game emulator forum is the only possible method for you to have a conversation today.

[onlyrockerfan]

How did you come to that conclusion? You are acting like the AC in OoT and this external list are the only possible methods for you to obtain Jboots. Yet you can just walk over to S. Ro and compete for FTE or buy them.

It’s too much work for him to have to kill mobs and work for his boots, rather than afk camp them in oot. He also loses his ability to cry on the forums like a little bitch until he gets his way.

[beh]

Yeah, right, my entire crusade here about getting rid of a list where 150 people don't even have to be logged on to camp a spawn is because *I'M THE LAZY ONE* who just wants to afk for loot.

Big brain reply right here folks

[Scalem]

I came to that conclusion because you just told me that if I'm dissatisfied with something that I view as unjust, that I should just take the L and go away. Sounds like you have some type of vested interest in shutting me up, because if you were simply uninterested in the topic, or didn't like what I had to say, you could just find something else to read this afternoon, right?

You're acting like page 14 of a post on relatively obscure 20-year old video game emulator forum is the only possible method for you to have a conversation today.

Dang you got me I do have an interest in the list. It keeps people like you away from the easy AC in S. Ro.

[Scalem]

It’s too much work for him to have to kill mobs and work for his boots, rather than afk camp them in oot. He also loses his ability to cry on the forums like a little bitch until he gets his way.

Yea he'd be much better off on the TLP's.

[Crab]

Nah actually I'm still somewhere in the 60's, but thanks for proving my point.

I like that you omited the other parts of my post. YOU screwed up. Not the list. You want this to be a "classic" camp, but you would have lost the camp anyway because you fell asleep. Just shut up and wait your turn.



^--- FTFY, yw.

Following the ridiculous rules of this list is what prevented me from getting my AC fairly as I should have per the normal server rules. Nobody was there to claim the camp that didn't already have the ring, except for me, but I got lawyered out of it because I tried to be kind. I know my OP was a bit long, but if you didn't read it, don't reply again. Thanks in advance.


I love when people this dumb, get this smug.

You didn't follow the rules, if you had this wouldn't have been an issue. Rule 3: Next the list has until the PH *following the previous holder's AC) spawns to claim their turn, otherwise it will go to the next person down on the list (who is online and can engage that PH immediately)

You even admit to not following the rules in your own post.

I know the rules are a bit long, but if you didn't read them, don't reply again. Thanks in advance.

You're helpless and delusional. There isn't a cabal owning all the ACs, I knew no one on this server when I started and made it through the list just fine. Stop trying to blame a mechanism that has actually been a boon for the server. If the list goes away I guarantee there will be a small group of people who own all the ACs.

[cd288]

I like that you omited the other parts of my post. YOU screwed up. Not the list. You want this to be a "classic" camp, but you would have lost the camp anyway because you fell asleep. Just shut up and wait your turn.




I love when people this dumb, get this smug.

You didn't follow the rules, if you had this wouldn't have been an issue. Rule 3: Next the list has until the PH *following the previous holder's AC) spawns to claim their turn, otherwise it will go to the next person down on the list (who is online and can engage that PH immediately)

You even admit to not following the rules in your own post.

I know the rules are a bit long, but if you didn't read them, don't reply again. Thanks in advance.

You're helpless and delusional. There isn't a cabal owning all the ACs, I knew no one on this server when I started and made it through the list just fine. Stop trying to blame a mechanism that has actually been a boon for the server. If the list goes away I guarantee there will be a small group of people who own all the ACs.

Can't opine on your other comments but you're absolutely right about what would happen if the player agreed list went away. Look what Blue was like. A select group of people monopolizing the ACs most of the time and corpsing rings to MQ them

[beh]

The "rules" state that I should have wiped the entire list out because I was there and no one else was. THAT is the rule I did not follow in the interest of kindness and consideration for strangers - and the only person who was affected negatively by my decision in that moment was ME.

By your logic, I should have followed that rule and wiped the list - a self-serving arrogant decision that has previously caused multiple required GM interventions, guild drama, and shouting matches at the actual camp itself - all because the people who made these rules have neither the spine or the care to enforce them. Instead, they turn away when things get bad and say "I'm not involved, I just work here," and leave the GM's to clean up the trash while the person who wiped the list ACCORDING TO "THE RULES" gets lambasted by everyone who is now mad that they didn't get their chance to rush their kids back to their ex-wife's house so they can parachute in to Norrath as they approach the top of this magical list.

If you read my post, I had a perfectly logical and diplomatic solution ready to go, that would have kept your precious list intact, and sent me on my way with absolutely zero negative repercussions to anyone... but because of the fear instilled in the two guys before me by this albatross of a list, their notion that they'd be tarred feathered and blackballed if they even thought of deviating from these bullshit rules , even in the interest of common sense and fairness, we are now HERE.

[beh]

Can't opine on your other comments but you're absolutely right about what would happen if the player agreed list went away. Look what Blue was like. A select group of people monopolizing the ACs most of the time and corpsing rings to MQ them

I was on blue from classic until velious release, with reduced playtime thereafter, but I never had a problem getting the AC camp. Did I have to wait for a few people to finish before I got my shot? Sure... but it never took a week, and I was never told there were potentially 150 people in front of me. You're making up false history to fit your narrative, and while that might work in current US politics, I won't let you bullshit us all here.

For the record, I don't have an issue with people farming for MQ either, within the means of the normal server rules... but when you have a list like this that basically enables a farmer to have zero presence for a week at the camp and then pop on in like clockwork to claim their free 6,000 plat (read: time that someone else actually spent PLAYING THE GAME), you have a problem. This list is slow poison, and even if it continues for a bit after this thread dies, people will get tired of it soon.

[TripSin]

This is unhealthy.

[beh]

Yup, one guild arbitrarily making custom rules for decades-old content that has never had a serious issue in the past... definitely unhealthy for a server as a whole.

[TripSin]

Well, I'm not trying to take sides here. I don't even play anymore (stuff like this being one of the factors). I just mean the entire situation is unhealthy.

I did a list item once. Was in the game straight for like 22 hours or something just waiting and camping the item. That was torturous and unhealthy. When I first played EverQuest, I never really cared about things like J Boots or Manastones - I might not have even known they existed, but I feel like it's really hard not to now in the current P99 environment in 2020.

[Cawin]

So you want the same thing but without a centralized list and camp holder has to /who all everyone on said list persistently to ensure they are online?

[Cawin]

Yup, one guild arbitrarily making custom rules for decades-old content that has never had a serious issue in the past... definitely unhealthy for a server as a whole.

Take your advice on reading. This had nothing to do with guild and we didn't create any rules. Provided a resource for what was already in place. Again, use the Google doc link and type that out to share if you can't see that ac.kingdomdkp.com is easier to write.

As you stated above your concern is people not being online. As pointed out, thats a bit hypocritical regarding your "common player" argument, but let's entertain that. No centralized list. Camp holder has to write down and maintain. Camp holder has to do /who all persistently and remove offlines. That really does sound way better to manage! Can't see how that wouldn't be less open to manipulation! Get to it guys.

[ldgo86]

Make it /list. We can’t have nice things.

[Convict]

The "rules" state that I should have wiped the entire list out because I was there and no one else was. THAT is the rule I did not follow in the interest of kindness and consideration for strangers - and the only person who was affected negatively by my decision in that moment was ME.

move to resolved.

next time dont be an incel and take whats rightfully yours.

This thread only exists because you fucked up otherwise you would have gotten the camp, hopefully gotten your ring, and gone on with your day with nothing to bitch about

[Sabin76]

I refer to my last post

I see that, but you haven't addressed my question... which is: how is this list any worse for a "common player" which you assert this list shuts out of the running.

You seem to be saying two things... that the list is bad because it allows people to do other things while remaining on it, but also that that somehow makes it so that the "common player" cannot get their RotA. I simply don't see how those two statements are compatible. I see the opposite... the list allows someone who would otherwise be completely shut out to have a small chance of being on at the right time with the right amount of time to be able to get a spawn.

At the very least, it's a wash:

No list - you show up and wait for as long as you can hoping to both get the camp and the spawn.

List - you get put on the list and hope that your turn comes up when you are on and have time.

Will the "list" be as long if there were no list? Absolutely not. Would it change anything for someone who only has a few hours a day to play? Again, no...not in any good way.

Barring other concerns (like when you can play), the only difference is that the list allows someone to play other aspects of the game while waiting for their turn at the camp. Go ahead and complain that the list allows that, but don't pretend that the list makes it worse for the "common player".

[beh]

"mOvEd tO rEsOlVeD"

Wowzers, so witty and edgy! I guess we're all done here - I'll make sure I "take what's rightfully mine" next time, and when the pimply pitchfork army chases me into the sunset of OOT, I'll also make sure to reference how you and the guy that made this list told me it was ok to do so.

[beh]

I see that, but you haven't addressed my question... which is: how is this list any worse for a "common player" which you assert this list shuts out of the running.

You seem to be saying two things... that the list is bad because it allows people to do other things while remaining on it, but also that that somehow makes it so that the "common player" cannot get their RotA. I simply don't see how those two statements are compatible. I see the opposite... the list allows someone who would otherwise be completely shut out to have a small chance of being on at the right time with the right amount of time to be able to get a spawn.

At the very least, it's a wash:

No list - you show up and wait for as long as you can hoping to both get the camp and the spawn.

List - you get put on the list and hope that your turn comes up when you are on and have time.

Will the "list" be as long if there were no list? Absolutely not. Would it change anything for someone who only has a few hours a day to play? Again, no...not in any good way.

Barring other concerns (like when you can play), the only difference is that the list allows someone to play other aspects of the game while waiting for their turn at the camp. Go ahead and complain that the list allows that, but don't pretend that the list makes it worse for the "common player".

I'll simplify it for you: on blue, it took a night of playing EQ and checking in on the AC every now and then to get the camp, usually on off hours but not always. On green, you add yourself to a list of over 100 people who either aren't playing EQ at the moment or just added themselves for the hell of it because they don't have to put in any effort at all for an automatic 6,000 plat MQ oppo, in turn forcing everyone who actually needs boots have to wait days or weeks because auto-pilot farmers feel entitled to make their next withdrawal.

[beh]

You don't understand that the more organized/raid guilds are sharing accounts and batphoning/discord mentioning their pals when each other's names are near the top? You think this doesn't artificially inflate the list and slow it to a molasses pace for those of us who don't feel like being woken up at 3am for a cyclops, or don't want to share passwords with strangers?

[adruidarkly]

"mOvEd tO rEsOlVeD"

Wowzers, so witty and edgy! I guess we're all done here - I'll make sure I "take what's rightfully mine" next time, and when the pimply pitchfork army chases me into the sunset of OOT, I'll also make sure to reference how you and the guy that made this list told me it was ok to do so.

Yes, and you'll be able to run from the completely imaginary army of people upset with you following the established rules into the sunset 35% more quickly.

[adruidarkly]

You don't understand that the more organized/raid guilds are sharing accounts and batphoning/discord mentioning their pals when each other's names are near the top? You think this doesn't artificially inflate the list and slow it to a molasses pace for those of us who don't feel like being woken up at 3am for a cyclops, or don't want to share passwords with strangers?

Yes, and they will also do this on player run lists such as FBE. They do this on /lists. Do a /who on whose on those lists, it wont be surprising. You don't get away from it, so why not make it more manageable for all by having an always accessible publicly audit-able list?

[jerryR]

How are what the MQ farmers doing anything differently than you'd be doing following the same list ? If it's automatic and effortless seems like thats pretty attainable for whatever other class of player you are representing??

[beh]

You don't understand that the more organized/raid guilds are sharing accounts and batphoning/discord mentioning their pals when each other's names are near the top? You think this doesn't artificially inflate the list and slow it to a molasses pace for those of us who don't feel like being woken up at 3am for a cyclops, or don't want to share passwords with strangers?

If you don't have some bogus offline list, it will never grow to 100+ people, and you have to actually dedicate the time and effort required to get jboots, TO GET JBOOTS! In turn, this time-sink, working as intended, will discourage MOST farmers from wasting their time camping jboots for cash, because just like half a dozen snarky assholes before me stated: YOU CAN MAKE THE PLAT QUICKER SOMEWHERE ELSE.

What a concept. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but I promise kids, it's not opposite day; this just requires some critical thinking.

[beh]

BTW: It's been over 50 hours since I was re-added to the list after the incident of the original post and I've moved up less than 40 spots. There are still over 60 "people" ahead of me. It couldn't *possibly* be this long and slow because some of the same people are adding multiple alts to this list... right? ........

....Right?

[jerryR]

BTW: It's been over 50 hours since I was re-added to the list after the incident of the original post and I've moved up less than 40 spots.

There is still a non-trivial time component involved once you do make it to the camp holder - as you know from falling asleep attempting it. How is it going to be any easier for some other guy regardless of his motivations or account, guild etc ? It seems like its super easy to waste that amount of time for everyone but you ??

[Sabin76]

I'll simplify it for you: on blue, it took a night of playing EQ and checking in on the AC every now and then to get the camp, usually on off hours but not always. On green, you add yourself to a list of over 100 people who either aren't playing EQ at the moment or just added themselves for the hell of it because they don't have to put in any effort at all for an automatic 6,000 plat MQ oppo, in turn forcing everyone who actually needs boots have to wait days or weeks because auto-pilot farmers feel entitled to make their next withdrawal....

BTW: It's been over 50 hours since I was re-added to the list after the incident of the original post and I've moved up less than 40 spots. There are still over 60 "people" ahead of me. It couldn't *possibly* be this long and slow because some of the same people are adding multiple alts to this list... right? ........

....Right?

Again... your problem seems to be that people can do other things while being on the list, and that makes the list 100+ an then you have to wait ~5 days (that's how long it took me to go from 120 to 1) to actually have a shot at your boots.

Ok, but you yourself realize that large chunks of the list can be skipped. You can - potentially - take only a couple days, or even (in your case in the OP) just show up and have the spawn uncontested if no one else is on.

It's luck of the draw... just like if there were no offline list.

BTW, the reason the list barely moved was because the AC took 11 hours to spawn yesterday. If that happens when you are on, you aren't getting that camp for several days sans list either... and yes, it was one person sitting there the entire time.

[Scalem]

Again... your problem seems to be that people can do other things while being on the list, and that makes the list 100+ an then you have to wait ~5 days (that's how long it took me to go from 120 to 1) to actually have a shot at your boots.

Ok, but you yourself realize that large chunks of the list can be skipped. You can - potentially - take only a couple days, or even (in your case in the OP) just show up and have the spawn uncontested if no one else is on.

It's luck of the draw... just like if there were no offline list.

BTW, the reason the list barely moved was because the AC took 11 hours to spawn yesterday. If that happens when you are on, you aren't getting that camp for several days sans list either... and yes, it was one person sitting there the entire time.

I don't believe you! It must have taken so long because of some secret cabal/conspiracy by the top players to keep people like beh from being able to get Jboots. If only those players didn't force him to fall asleep while he had the camp.

[Crab]

I don't believe you! It must have taken so long because of some secret cabal/conspiracy by the top players to keep people like beh from being able to get Jboots. If only those players didn't force him to fall asleep while he had the camp.

[beh]

Lol. Now I "fell asleep while I had the camp". Not even close to what actually happened. You'll come up with anything to defend trash because it's your trash. Probably a republican. BTW, there's definitely no secret cabal of jboots monopolizers. There isn't enough intelligence among the defenders of this list for something of that scale. Simply a bunch of people too bad at this game to figure out how to get their jboots without a list that lets you not actually play EQ but still get loot.

[beh]

(horrible meme)

Hyperbole and memes are useful when you've got nothing left.. Thanks for admitting you're a loser.

[beh]

Mods can go ahead and lock or RNF this one I guess, nothing useful is going to come out of this beyond ad-homs at this point. If these carebears need big brother's list to stay happy because they don't have the time to dedicate to actually playing the game then that says more about the state of the server than anything else, I guess. Kunark can't come quickly enough.

[Crab]

Lol. Now I "fell asleep while I had the camp". Not even close to what actually happened. You'll come up with anything to defend trash because it's your trash. Probably a republican. BTW, there's definitely no secret cabal of jboots monopolizers. There isn't enough intelligence among the defenders of this list for something of that scale. Simply a bunch of people too bad at this game to figure out how to get their jboots without a list that lets you not actually play EQ but still get loot.

I cannot remember the last time I fell for a troll, good work.

[Impeaches]

If you would like names of the people mentioned in my post that moved #40something to #1 this morning, I'd be happy to share, since your awesome auditing didn't catch that today.


Let's go ahead and solve this little part of the equation, okay Beh or Coronita (Fires of Heaven). I (My in-game name matches my name here now) was the person who held the list over to find the next person online. I started my AC camp off with a tell from you whining about missing your turn. Literally before I even summoned a pet you were sending me tells whining. As soon as I had a second I started /w all down the list. Then the third spawns AC popped and i had made it to like #20 on the list. One PH popped I killed it. I play on a laptop and either have to window back and forth or use my phone to get names, so it can be a little slow. I had little time to send tells to folks on the list to find who was online for the #2 spot with only 2 PH spawning before I got an AC. I continued down the list and found one person in BB headed to the AC camp and informed that person I was continuing down the list in case someone bound there was online. PH #1 post AC popped and I killed it. You stated you were taking the camp on next PH. I told you I had the camp and was not relinquishing it to you and wiping a list because I couldn't type fast enough to find who was online. I found another person online around #40something on the list, a guildmate, who declined because they were not bound there. PH #2 post AC spawned and I killed it. You stated again you were taking the camp I told you it was my camp and you were not taking it, I was going to honor the list as it stood and continue to see if anyone was online and bound at the camp. At that point the person in the #8 or #10 spot appeared in camp. I forgot this person's name, it started with a "B" and don't want to drag anyone into your shit show here. I turned the camp and list over to that person, who was not number #40, not someone I know, and not part of some grand conspiracy to keep you from achieving greatness in a 20 year old game.

The other person you keep alluding as my co-conspirator is someone I solely know from the AC camp. The person who I turned the spawn over to is someone I have never interacted with in game before. There's nothing rotten in Denmark or this situation so go ahead and put the tin foil hat away for another day.

As for issues with the current system, the inability to ban you and people like you and Urbrutha from the list is the only issue with the list. I could see saying you slots #1 and #2 had to be in camp, or even 1-3.

Now, back to a 20 year old game thankfully kept alive by some folks who don't get enough credit.

ImPeaches... go fuck yourself Coronita...

[Impeaches]

If you would like names of the people mentioned in my post that moved #40something to #1 this morning, I'd be happy to share, since your awesome auditing didn't catch that today.


Let's go ahead and solve this little part of the equation, okay Beh or Coronita (Fires of Heaven). I (My in-game name matches my name here now) was the person who held the list over to find the next person online. I started my AC camp off with a tell from you whining about missing your turn. Literally before I even summoned a pet you were sending me tells whining. As soon as I had a second I started /w all down the list. Then the third spawns AC popped and i had made it to like #20 on the list. One PH popped I killed it. I play on a laptop and either have to window back and forth or use my phone to get names, so it can be a little slow. I had little time to send tells to folks on the list to find who was online for the #2 spot with only 2 PH spawning before I got an AC. I continued down the list and found one person in BB headed to the AC camp and informed that person I was continuing down the list in case someone bound there was online. PH #1 post AC popped and I killed it. You stated you were taking the camp on next PH. I told you I had the camp and was not relinquishing it to you and wiping a list because I couldn't type fast enough to find who was online. I found another person online around #40something on the list, a guildmate, who declined because they were not bound there. PH #2 post AC spawned and I killed it. You stated again you were taking the camp I told you it was my camp and you were not taking it, I was going to honor the list as it stood and continue to see if anyone was online and bound at the camp. At that point the person in the #8 or #10 spot appeared in camp. I forgot this person's name, it started with a "B" and don't want to drag anyone into your shit show here. I turned the camp and list over to that person, who was not number #40, not someone I know, and not part of some grand conspiracy to keep you from achieving greatness in a 20 year old game.

The other person you keep alluding as my co-conspirator is someone I solely know from the AC camp. The person who I turned the spawn over to is someone I have never interacted with in game before. There's nothing rotten in Denmark or this situation so go ahead and put the tin foil hat away for another day.

As for issues with the current system, the inability to ban you and people like you and Urbrutha from the list is the only issue with the list. I could see saying you slots #1 and #2 had to be in camp, or even 1-3.

Now, back to a 20 year old game thankfully kept alive by some folks who don't get enough credit.

ImPeaches... go fuck yourself Coronita...

[Graahle]

9 pages and counting over fucking JBoots. Just go play on Aradune man; there's no lawyerquesting there. There's not even a PNP. Just outdamage a person/group at a camp and take their shit.

[Convict]

Let's go ahead and solve this little part of the equation, okay Beh or Coronita (Fires of Heaven). I (My in-game name matches my name here now) was the person who held the list over to find the next person online. I started my AC camp off with a tell from you whining about missing your turn. Literally before I even summoned a pet you were sending me tells whining. As soon as I had a second I started /w all down the list. Then the third spawns AC popped and i had made it to like #20 on the list. One PH popped I killed it. I play on a laptop and either have to window back and forth or use my phone to get names, so it can be a little slow. I had little time to send tells to folks on the list to find who was online for the #2 spot with only 2 PH spawning before I got an AC. I continued down the list and found one person in BB headed to the AC camp and informed that person I was continuing down the list in case someone bound there was online. PH #1 post AC popped and I killed it. You stated you were taking the camp on next PH. I told you I had the camp and was not relinquishing it to you and wiping a list because I couldn't type fast enough to find who was online. I found another person online around #40something on the list, a guildmate, who declined because they were not bound there. PH #2 post AC spawned and I killed it. You stated again you were taking the camp I told you it was my camp and you were not taking it, I was going to honor the list as it stood and continue to see if anyone was online and bound at the camp. At that point the person in the #8 or #10 spot appeared in camp. I forgot this person's name, it started with a "B" and don't want to drag anyone into your shit show here. I turned the camp and list over to that person, who was not number #40, not someone I know, and not part of some grand conspiracy to keep you from achieving greatness in a 20 year old game.

The other person you keep alluding as my co-conspirator is someone I solely know from the AC camp. The person who I turned the spawn over to is someone I have never interacted with in game before. There's nothing rotten in Denmark or this situation so go ahead and put the tin foil hat away for another day.

As for issues with the current system, the inability to ban you and people like you and Urbrutha from the list is the only issue with the list. I could see saying you slots #1 and #2 had to be in camp, or even 1-3.

Now, back to a 20 year old game thankfully kept alive by some folks who don't get enough credit.

ImPeaches... go fuck yourself Coronita...

not taking either side here but, once you have gotten the AC gotten your ring, you are done at the camp, thats how camps work with LORE items, list or not. You dont get to continue holding the camp and killing PH's waitin for someone else to show up if there is someone already there to take it. Or at least thats how it should work. If you have made it down to already #40 on the list and havent found somebody by then just leave and let the guy sitting there waiting deal with it

[Samaritan]

not taking either side here but, once you have gotten the AC gotten your ring, you are done at the camp, thats how camps work with LORE items, list or not. You dont get to continue holding the camp and killing PH's waitin for someone else to show up if there is someone already there to take it. Or at least thats how it should work. If you have made it down to already #40 on the list and havent found somebody by then just leave and let the guy sitting there waiting deal with it

You do realize that many players will simply bind at the camp and corpse a ring, if it means they can get another, right?

The only thing better than selling 1 MQ is selling 4 MQs.

[Impeaches]

not taking either side here but, once you have gotten the AC gotten your ring, you are done at the camp, thats how camps work with LORE items, list or not. You dont get to continue holding the camp and killing PH's waitin for someone else to show up if there is someone already there to take it. Or at least thats how it should work. If you have made it down to already #40 on the list and havent found somebody by then just leave and let the guy sitting there waiting deal with it

As you correctly point out that's how you thing it should work, but unfortunately the materials provided and the agreement made when joining the list works slightly differently and the rules that are laid out state otherwise. I was neither disrupting the spawn or intending to remain at the spawn to continue farming a lore item. I was simply abiding an agreement I made when I accepted the list to look for the next person online once I had received an AC ring. Oddly enough AC camp is mentioned in the PNP. Until I turned the camp over to someone or begin disrupting the camp (say by corpsing rings or monopolizing the camp) it was my camp and would remain my camp as long as I FTE'd in a reasonable time and I was bound to make a good faith effort to follow the list. That holds to both the letter and the spirit of the elf law.

Impeaches Esq.

[Coridan]

Just as a quest design the JBoots quest is fucking dumb. It should have been something more like Staff of the Wheel, going to all the outdoor zones and finding items or something. The EQ2 JBoots quest is actually really good but probably not something you can implement in 99 and would be trivialized by bards anyway lol.

[adruidarkly]

You do realize that many players will simply bind at the camp and corpse a ring, if it means they can get another, right?

The only thing better than selling 1 MQ is selling 4 MQs.

Yeah I think they do realize, what they should have said is in a camp with a waiting list, once you get your item(LORE or not) you are done with that camp and must pass it to the next one waiting. That's the rule. Reference: https://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules#Faydwer

I hold my initial stance: This seems to me that a cross section of two people who didn't understand the rules, and made extra efforts to be kind to the entirety of a 100 person list in vain, caused a kerfuffle that should not have happened. The list is for determining who gets the camp in the case when multiple people are there waiting for the camp at the time the next PH spawns as a hard deadline, or show up in a reasonable amount of time after the holder got their item otherwise. Ultimately there is no excuse for a player missing their slot. As was lamented multiple times in this thread, you can see your position at any moment on any device with an internet connection.

I think I have the right of it, please correct me where I am wrong:

Camp holder has zero responsibility in contacting the entire list in order. Your responsibilities as camp holder are holding the camp, adding people the list. In the event you get your item, its your job to pass it to whoever is present to take the camp over when the next PH spawns as a hard deadline. The next person up can show up anytime before the next PH, or a reasonable amount of time in the event the spawn has long gaps.

No matter how much you like the people on the list between you and the person there to take it over, those people weren't there and its not your fault. If you remain there killing the spawn after you got your item, they you are in the wrong for doing so. Once that PH spawns, the list is only relevant in deciding who among those that are present take it over. A player waiting may assert themselves as the new camp holder at that point, which was wrongly denied here.

The responsibility to take over the camp truly falls to those waiting to benefit from it. If you're next up in presence, then it's in your best interests to remain present even if you are #110. You may just get the camp before 109 people ahead of you. Yes, this wipes the list. Sucks to be among the 109, one of them should have been there. If you are afraid of backlash then communicate your intention well, keep logs, run OBS -- GM's will have your back, especially with that video. If people show up and KS, make a petition. If there are people present in OOT ahead of you in the list, then you can probably go do other things while waiting. In lieu of socking the spawn while others camp, keep an eye and ear on the situation still via /who and /tell.

Another thing to mention -- if someone has two characters that hold two consecutive positions, they can technically swap characters before the next PH. If someone has their guildie's login, they can do that too. It's kind of a dick move, but you can't really police that as a player, so why waste energy on it?

Hope this is helpful to some, truly.

[Widan]

You do realize that many players will simply bind at the camp and corpse a ring, if it means they can get another, right?

The only thing better than selling 1 MQ is selling 4 MQs.


If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example)
you are done camping that mob.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1652719&postcount=9

Did the rules change since 2014?

[beh]

Let's go ahead and solve this little part of the equation, okay Beh or Coronita (Fires of Heaven). I (My in-game name matches my name here now) was the person who held the list over to find the next person online. I started my AC camp off with a tell from you whining about missing your turn. Literally before I even summoned a pet you were sending me tells whining. As soon as I had a second I started /w all down the list. Then the third spawns AC popped and i had made it to like #20 on the list. One PH popped I killed it. I play on a laptop and either have to window back and forth or use my phone to get names, so it can be a little slow. I had little time to send tells to folks on the list to find who was online for the #2 spot with only 2 PH spawning before I got an AC. I continued down the list and found one person in BB headed to the AC camp and informed that person I was continuing down the list in case someone bound there was online. PH #1 post AC popped and I killed it. You stated you were taking the camp on next PH. I told you I had the camp and was not relinquishing it to you and wiping a list because I couldn't type fast enough to find who was online. I found another person online around #40something on the list, a guildmate, who declined because they were not bound there. PH #2 post AC spawned and I killed it. You stated again you were taking the camp I told you it was my camp and you were not taking it, I was going to honor the list as it stood and continue to see if anyone was online and bound at the camp. At that point the person in the #8 or #10 spot appeared in camp. I forgot this person's name, it started with a "B" and don't want to drag anyone into your shit show here. I turned the camp and list over to that person, who was not number #40, not someone I know, and not part of some grand conspiracy to keep you from achieving greatness in a 20 year old game.

The other person you keep alluding as my co-conspirator is someone I solely know from the AC camp. The person who I turned the spawn over to is someone I have never interacted with in game before. There's nothing rotten in Denmark or this situation so go ahead and put the tin foil hat away for another day.

As for issues with the current system, the inability to ban you and people like you and Urbrutha from the list is the only issue with the list. I could see saying you slots #1 and #2 had to be in camp, or even 1-3.

Now, back to a 20 year old game thankfully kept alive by some folks who don't get enough credit.

ImPeaches... go fuck yourself Coronita...


Wow! Sounds like you took this more personally than I even did, coming on here like a hero looking to defend your own honor. Good for you, champ.

Except, you were the one who decided to stick around even after you got your ring, which - if you read this thread at all - is the one thing that mostly everyone can agree upon was wrong. You should have gotten the fuck out, instead of playing the white knight for a random stranger (according to you) who wasn't anywhere near OOT at the time.

Also, your story about me "whining" and telling you I was ready to wipe the list is flat out bullshit. I told you what happened (I was #2 and fell asleep when my turn came up), and since nobody else was around after you were done, I offered to NOT WIPE THE LIST, which would have permitted you to leave as you were SUPPOSED TO, without the weight of fucking 100+ people over on your conscience. If you read this thread AT ALL, you would've seen that I explained that at least five times. Actually, if your head wasn't so thick, you would've understood that when I explained it to you AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT IN QUESTION, instead of ignoring me and later calling it "whining" because you couldn't be bothered to use common sense.

But nope, you, the valiant white knight of the Kingdom AC list, decided to stay and cause this problem. Hope you're happy!

[beh]

As soon as I had a second I started /w all down the list. Then the third spawns AC popped and i had made it to like #20 on the list. One PH popped I killed it. I play on a laptop and either have to window back and forth or use my phone to get names, so it can be a little slow. I had little time to send tells to folks on the list to find who was online for the #2 spot with only 2 PH spawning before I got an AC.

You may have inadvertently helped me prove my point here.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH A LIST LIKE THIS.

It's NOT your responsibility to sit around and send 45 tells after you're done with the camp. If they're on the list and can't be bothered to check in, TOO BAD. You don't have to do that work for them.. but you decided to, and in turn had more empathy and consideration for a nameless faceless person who wasn't sitting right in front of you as I was, asking to alleviate your responsibilities by holding the list for you so you could leave... and this is the result.

And you wonder why there's suspicion?

[Phaezed-Reality]

https://i.imgur.com/ds6d89x.jpg

[Convict]

You do realize that many players will simply bind at the camp and corpse a ring, if it means they can get another, right?

The only thing better than selling 1 MQ is selling 4 MQs.

um yes i do realize that and theres a very clearly stated rule disallowing that. I'm sure it happens when nobody is around but nobody is going to do that when there is someone sitting there waiting for the camp

[beh]

Here's a couple of snippets I took from the evening in question. I wish I had taken a snap of the conversation directly with Impeaches (I like your name, btw, fwiw), but if I recall it was not much different than the one I had with Chalara, who was right before you. Sure, maybe "this list shit sucks" can be labelled "whining", but I guess we can leave it to public opinion to decide if it was that egregious or disruptive.

The other screenshot is from a nice gentleman in Kingdom, whom I reached out to regarding his opinion on the situation in real time, since Kingdom's website runs this list. Have a look at what he had to say.

BTW, Impeaches, I just re-read your post and saw that you told me to go fuck myself. You know, my gripe was never with you personally. My problem is the list itself, and my opinion from the start was that you should not have been burdened with sending dozens of tells to random strangers when you should have been on your way to go get your jboots (or sell your MQ?). That is why I offered to let you leave and maintain the list in your absence until I got my ring, since nobody else was there.

Yup. I should have just taken it... but I chose to go fuck myself. Lesson learned: nice guys finish last.

[beh]

Hey, quick update from the comfort of my living room couch!!!

It's been approximately EIGHTY (80) HOURS and I've moved up from #100 to #49. Three days down, hopefully only 3 more to go!!!!!!

Yeah!!! This is the classic experience I long for!

[Cawin]

Hey, quick update from the comfort of my living room couch!!!

It's been approximately EIGHTY (80) HOURS and I've moved up from #100 to #49. Three days down, hopefully only 3 more to go!!!!!!

Yeah!!! This is the classic experience I long for!

I know this is sarcasm, but it really is! Bumonrug and I were 13 when we camped it. Prepped for a weekend full of it. Waited and waited to get it. Camped it in shifts at my computer taking 2 hour breaks we always failed to sleep for. Once we got camp, continued to kill PHs for 2 days until a GM showed up, confirmed it was broken, reset. We got booted, got back in, someone else killed and got ring. I was so delirious from sleep deprivation I was asking my family what reagent you need to levitate in real life stating EQ requires bat wings, but thats just ridiculous. Woulda loved a centralized list back then we coulda checked to know when we were coming up and be in position.

[Bigsham]

Just as a quest design the JBoots quest is fucking dumb. It should have been something more like Staff of the Wheel, going to all the outdoor zones and finding items or something. The EQ2 JBoots quest is actually really good but probably not something you can implement in 99 and would be trivialized by bards anyway lol.

Honestly, having the ph be any seafury cyclops on a bigger island is such a better system

See you guys on aradune : )

[Graahle]

Honestly, having the ph be any seafury cyclops on a bigger island is such a better system

See you guys on aradune : )

Already there pal!

[beh]

72 hour lockout on re-adding yourself to the list after getting an AC Ring?

Decent compromise to thwart mindless farming and unclog the list a little bit?

[Bigsham]

Yea like all the people on that list arent boxing or have no other chars

[RecondoJoe]

Hey, quick update from the comfort of my living room couch!!!

It's been approximately EIGHTY (80) HOURS and I've moved up from #100 to #49. Three days down, hopefully only 3 more to go!!!!!!

Yeah!!! This is the classic experience I long for!

I don't like it either, but I know from doing a lot of other camps that if there wasn't a list then one guild would seize control of the camp and no one else would ever get access to it without GM intervention.

Really are better off just buying the MQ, dawg.

[RecondoJoe]

Yea like all the people on that list arent boxing or have no other chars

I would be very curious to see how many people on the list are from the same account. And honestly, is that really a crime? I guess it really depends whether or not the person is selling the MQ, but by putting multiple characters on the list, you increase your odds of being online when one of them gets called exponentially. You would actually be gimping yourself by not doing this, and it would be hard to blame someone for doing it.

[douglas1999]

I would be very curious to see how many people on the list are from the same account. And honestly, is that really a crime? I guess it really depends whether or not the person is selling the MQ, but by putting multiple characters on the list, you increase your odds of being online when one of them gets called exponentially. You would actually be gimping yourself by not doing this, and it would be hard to blame someone for doing it.

Yeah but boxing is gay and not allowed here. The ultimate self-gimp is getting banned. Also you can't play two characters from the same account even if you are boxing, I'm sure you know this recondojoe

[Keebz]

72 hour lockout on re-adding yourself to the list after getting an AC Ring?

Decent compromise to thwart mindless farming and unclog the list a little bit?

I'd say a 1-week lock out seems fair.

Who needs more than 1 JBoots a week?

I'm half tempted to build a web app the manage this thing, since the google doc seems to be getting somewhat abused.

[douglas1999]

Who needs more than 1 JBoots a week?


I'm sure there is a cheeto creature obese enough to require such a goal

Jboots create the illusion of not only moving, but moving faster!

[zaldaben]

I had more than one toon on it from the same account. both toons needed the jboots. I personally sat there for 11 hrs to get them for one toon at number 1 and conceded my toons second slot because i knew there was no way i was staying there to do it again. also one of the individuals who was after my second toon had been there just as long as I had and I wasnt doing that to them. no way in hell I would spend 11 hrs there again just to sell the MQ. personally since they locked the list I feel its working much much better.

[RecondoJoe]

Yeah but boxing is gay and not allowed here. The ultimate self-gimp is getting banned. Also you can't play two characters from the same account even if you are boxing, I'm sure you know this recondojoe

Who said anything about boxing? I'm saying why not constantly sign up with every single level 50 character you own? I bet half the people on the list aren't even online ATM. They don't actually check.

[RecondoJoe]

I had more than one toon on it from the same account. both toons needed the jboots. I personally sat there for 11 hrs to get them for one toon at number 1 and conceded my toons second slot because i knew there was no way i was staying there to do it again. also one of the individuals who was after my second toon had been there just as long as I had and I wasnt doing that to them. no way in hell I would spend 11 hrs there again just to sell the MQ. personally since they locked the list I feel its working much much better.

I'm not saying you would, but people are weird. How many people farm Dhamp in Mistmoore for 12 hours straight for a chance at a Hooded Black Cloak dropping so that they can sell it for 1.8K PP? This happens pretty much 24/7 on Green.

[Spineripper]

And if you want it as a clicky: http://wiki.project1999.com/Star_of_Eyes

There's literally no reason to waste time with this camp at all

Didn't know about this quest, gonna do it this week. Thanks for the heads up :o

[RecondoJoe]

Didn't know about this quest, gonna do it this week. Thanks for the heads up :o

I use it on my Shaman, but the range on it is kind of short, and you do have to have a target.

There may be a /macro that lets you target yourself, click star of eyes and swap back to original target? If so that would solve a lot of the issues I have with it.

[HullPaTeChoope]

That is an interesting way to put it.
Normally people who are at the AC camp are pretty much in agreeance of how it happens.
If you want on the list as a "main" then your name gets added. If you want to log to an alt then your alts name gets added after your mains: Main (alt).
If none of the above main/alt is online at the moment of transfer, then it falls to the next in line.
Its that easy really..

But i guess i can write a story of how i was having trouble contacting people on the list, just to make a big story out of it. Here goes: One day when i logged on - i was camped out at AC in OoT, i saw someone at AC camp. I said "hi" and they replied "hi" back. I though "hey should i ask if i could be put on the list" and i did so. They replied back;you will be added rigth away!

I was estatic and thougth "YAY". They then offered me a list in /ooc that went like this:
/ooc "AC camp; Currently holding X; Next main(alts name); Next one(alt); me

I had nothing better to do, so i waited around. Soon enough the AC appeared, and tells was send to "next main, then next (alt)" none of them were on. Next tells went for "next one, then next ones (alts)" none of them were on. So i fell to me to take the camp.

That does not seem unfair to me. If you are on then you can get the camp, if you are there within the next 6 min 30 sec spawn. If you are not on - even if your name is on the list - then the next one takes your place?

[dwikt96]

I'm not sure why it's any different than blue, if you want on the list you should be at the camp (or at the very least come to the camp to be added then stay in the zone, online) - I was skipped twice, even though I was 100% online one of the times and was bound at AC just so I could get there.

When I inquired I was told they contacted everyone and it skipped like 45 people, which I find hard to believe.

The third time I went and sat at camp, proactively contacted the person who was #1 and made sure they knew I was online and in OOT and I finally got the ring that day.

It should 100% be like blue tho, person camping it holds list, if you want to be added you need to be online and in OOT

[Castle2.0]

100+ people

THIS ^^

No AFK check = no need to be at camp = list goes to 100+.

I have a question. What do you want to do once you get your item after a super long camp and you're tired? You want to go through 20-30 people to individually send tells and see if they are online...

Sounds like long camps for a single sought after drop without /list function are working out real well :D

[adruidarkly]

THIS ^^
You want to go through 20-30 people to individually send tells and see if they are

This isn’t what you do. I don’t know what people are doing, but if it’s this then don’t. Camp rules require next up to be there in person or able to arrive before next PH or spawn. That wrong behavior is what started this whole thread iirc

The list only determines who of two or more people present have precedence. It is a player agreement with no real teeth on its own. That is all.

[damus1]

that is the expectation of most people on that list. They bind at camp and get a nice tell of precisely when to gate and instantly take over the camp. A while back the camp was left completely unattended and the guy who got their ring decided to corpse it and camp another, which is 100% legal on an uncontested camp, and sparked an enormous shitstorm from butthurt lazys denied their welfare boots.

[Taiku]

This isn’t what you do. I don’t know what people are doing, but if it’s this then don’t. Camp rules require next up to be there in person or able to arrive before next PH or spawn. That wrong behavior is what started this whole thread iirc

The list only determines who of two or more people present have precedence. It is a player agreement with no real teeth on its own. That is all.

Well this would certainly be the "sane" way to do it, but I don't think this is how a lot of people interpret the list, sadly. :(

[sajbert]

THIS ^^

No AFK check = no need to be at camp = list goes to 100+.

I have a question. What do you want to do once you get your item after a super long camp and you're tired? You want to go through 20-30 people to individually send tells and see if they are online...

Sounds like long camps for a single sought after drop without /list function are working out real well :D

Have you ever tried to camp Jboots in OoT before you try to make a poor argument about /list camps?

Yes, the list sometimes went to 100+ but in reality it’s much less than that since people frequently get skipped. People sign up and go about their lives as normal. Only once they get close to the top they need to start paying attention.

I’ve done both the old /list camp and the OoT one. I had to attempt the Najena one twice (bad streak of no drops) with over 50 hours clicking an an afk-box total. The OoT one despite a bad streak was about 10 hours of actually being in OoT. Some got theirs in literal minutes.

There has been the odd drama but, really, it has worked out surprisingly well.

The downside is that it may take several days or up to a few weeks depending on your life schedule and priorities before you get the camp at a suitable time instead of being skipped.

Also you rarely have to message more than a a few people before someone is online or even at the AC camp already. Compared to clicking AFK-boxes it’s a blessing.

[Castle2.0]

I’ve done both the old /list camp and the OoT one. I had to attempt the Najena one twice (bad streak of no drops) with over 50 hours clicking an an afk-box total. The OoT one despite a bad streak was about 10 hours of actually being in OoT. Some got theirs in literal minutes. You had a longer than normal camp at Drelzna /list. You had a nice experience in OOT. You don't like clicking AFK boxes. Well... sounds like we need to do away with lists - the overwhelming evidence says so.

If the list is 100+ and you "rarely have to message more than a a few people" to get to the next person, that sounds like a really long list.

I wrote a whole thread on why items with a lot of interest that don't use the /list function blow up and make it take longer for everyone. See here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368086

If there is no cost to being on the /list, you will have more people on the list. When the cost of any good goes down, demand goes up. Pretty straight-forward.

You're also comparing a time when fewer people had jboots: there is always a premium cost to get items earlier. Now you can do OOT or Sro. There's no comparison. The vast majority of main toons in raiding guilds have jboots, and even some with jboots on a few alts. Demand is lower now.

We have to look at the topic holistically, not one just one person's anecdote. Player-held listens are burdensome, prone to "error", and will always be larger than a /list that requires you to be there proving you're not AFK.

[sajbert]

You had a longer than normal camp at Drelzna /list. You had a nice experience in OOT. You don't like clicking AFK boxes. Well... sounds like we need to do away with lists - the overwhelming evidence says so.

If the list is 100+ and you "rarely have to message more than a a few people" to get to the next person, that sounds like a really long list.

I wrote a whole thread on why items with a lot of interest that don't use the /list function blow up and make it take longer for everyone. See here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368086

If there is no cost to being on the /list, you will have more people on the list. When the cost of any good goes down, demand goes up. Pretty straight-forward.

You're also comparing a time when fewer people had jboots: there is always a premium cost to get items earlier. Now you can do OOT or Sro. There's no comparison. The vast majority of main toons in raiding guilds have jboots, and even some with jboots on a few alts. Demand is lower now.

We have to look at the topic holistically, not one just one person's anecdote. Player-held listens are burdensome, prone to "error", and will always be larger than a /list that requires you to be there proving you're not AFK.
Bullshit.

First, I didn’t have a nicer than average experience in OoT. I got skipped twice (shit happens, had to work) and a nce I got the camp I spent longer than average there. It was still mlles better than the Najena camp.

Also the idea that demand for boots has dropped is nonsense too. Jboots MQ hasn’t dropped in price, every alt needs one too.

And it’s not just one person’s anecdote, average time spent camping Najena Jboots was likely around 20-25 hours. AC is a sign up and forget list until you get high up and start keeing an eye on it. Only hassle is having to be bound there for a couple of weeks. It’s a MUCH higher quality of life camp than any /list camp ever was.

Thank you Kingdom for setting the list up!

[Cawin]

Nice to hear!

These forum posts always are started by someone who had a bad experience (usually via misunderstanding) and rage out. Then you hear from a bunch of professional ForumQuesters that haven't seen the Ocean of Tears in 10 years. The amount of people that have utilized the centralized player list with positive results is staggering and the positive comments I hear are awesome.

The list got attacked as a result of a forum complaint that I think the author was very much in the wrong on (so did guide) and had to be locked. It was officially "dead" and guess how people celebrated the "horrible, terrible, worst thing, welfare pixel" list death? Oh, they kept using and continued on.

[Fammaden]

Bullshit.

First, I didn’t have a nicer than average experience in OoT. I got skipped twice (shit happens, had to work) and a nce I got the camp I spent longer than average there. It was still mlles better than the Najena camp.

Also the idea that demand for boots has dropped is nonsense too. Jboots MQ hasn’t dropped in price, every alt needs one too.

And it’s not just one person’s anecdote, average time spent camping Najena Jboots was likely around 20-25 hours. AC is a sign up and forget list until you get high up and start keeing an eye on it. Only hassle is having to be bound there for a couple of weeks. It’s a MUCH higher quality of life camp than any /list camp ever was.

Thank you Kingdom for setting the list up!

Just ignore "Castle 2.0" he's a toxic shit bag and everyone hated him at the /list camps on Teal (RIP). He bangs the drum so hard for the /list system for one reason and one reason alone, because he sees them as an avenue to benefit himself personally. He could give less than zero shits about what the best experience is for the average player or the server as a whole.

[chaos1990]

During the few days I ran the list for AC on blue I made it so to list you had to be in zone

It worked fine. Noone was upset. Often people would leave and come back and due to others doing that they would only lose 0-1 positions.

[kudlezz]

Folks with no notable commitments in life would naturally prefer to bolster their advantage by keeping systems like /list in place. That others have sorted out systems that happen to make at least reasonably possible for the employed or otherwise committed players to get rare items is a personal affront to them.

For the receipt of pixels by the less “worthy” by whatever depressing metric (time invested?) somehow impacts their enjoyment of the very same pixels.

The AC list is by and large a great success and Kingdom rocks for having started it and continued to help support it.

[Googi]

Easy solution, enable pvp

list will be in the teens all the time and much more fun

see you in oot !

[Castle2.0]

For the receipt of pixels by the less “worthy” by whatever depressing metric (time invested?) somehow impacts their enjoyment of the very same pixels.
EQ's entirely undergirded by the equation of time in = pixels out.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2Ofk2-XEAApYBB.jpg

Manastone is one of the highest priced items on market. Buying offers of 165-175k now. Continuous 18-148 hour camp with average around 50-70 hours.

Super rare drops take a long time to drop.... imagine that. And they tend to go for a lot of money.

Dragon/planar boss loot takes 20-30 people hours of poopsocking for a shot at it. Typically, the best items take the most time to get, and thus are the most desirable, and most costly.

People want crap for free. Sorry bros. I know ya'll wanna play the guitar on the MTV. Wrong era (that was 80s, EQ was 90s/00s)

Folks with no notable commitments in life would naturally prefer to bolster their advantage by keeping systems like /list in place. That others have sorted out systems that happen to make at least reasonably possible for the employed or otherwise committed players to get rare items is a personal affront to them.

Why don't we give everyone a Manastone? Who has 48 hours? Who has 1 hour? Who has 5 minutes? Why make people camp it at all? When you answer this question, you may have my answer to those wanting to make /list easier.

[kudlezz]

I love you man. You’re like the literal embodiment of everything that is unhealthy about MMOs.

And I respect you for your consistency in that.

[M.J.]

The list sucks.

I've done Jboots on Green, Blue, and Red, and the only thing I learned from the experience is that it is the fucking roulette equivalent for EQ.

I have no idea how it works for anyone with a life, people way smarter than me insist it isn't a fucking retarded waste of time, and there are only ever a few people "playing" while everyone else is standing around doing nothing but watching.

[Castle2.0]

I love you man. You’re like the literal embodiment of everything that is unhealthy about MMOs.

And I respect you for your consistency in that. FWIW, I never camped, owned, bought or sold FBSS, SSoY, Djarns Ring or GEBs on any toon on Teal/Green ever. I camped 1 EB earring, 1 GBS (more knowledge and patience over time than long hours), /listed a few jboots. Had to go in on Manastone though - great hour-per-plat investment. For Manastone, I made friends. People assume the dude camping Manastone is some druggy on caffeine. It's mostly groups of friends/guilds.

Oh, and I've only socked a few dragons. I just recognize EQ for what it is man. I'm just clearheaded and accept the Norrathian reality as it is. But if people wanna put a persona on me that I'm a neckbeard just because I have a somewhat extreme personality and a predilection toward discussing game mechanics in detail.... *shrug*

EQ is my hobby. It's where I spend my free time working on different, interesting projects (see my signature.) The one I am working on now is quite interesting, and I look forward to sharing it with you and putting a smile on your face, like it has on mine.

I have a wife, own my business, and do a lot of work from home (way before COVID.) Lifestyle helps. Students can get all their studies done, nail their exams, and play hookie on some classes if they want. They can get straight A's and still manage to go hardcore in a game like EQ. They aren't without commitments, they just have a different lifestyle.

If you have a 9-5 job, a wife, and kids, it'll be tough to do things like a /list camp - but I met people in that situation that did because *drum roll* they made friends.

The people saying account sharing is for neckbeards and it locks out casuals are simply the casuals who have yet to find friends to share with. Take away account sharing on /list and you will have only hardcore neckbeards - I'd be off that /list as well.

I have no idea how it works for anyone with a life, people way smarter than me insist it isn't a fucking retarded waste of time, and there are only ever a few people "playing" while everyone else is standing around doing nothing but watching. It's like democracy. Worst system except for the rest. /list is best because all the alternatives are worse.

[sajbert]

FWIW, I never camped, owned, bought or sold FBSS, SSoY, Djarns Ring or GEBs on any toon on Teal/Green ever. I camped 1 EB earring, 1 GBS (more knowledge and patience over time than long hours), /listed a few jboots. Had to go in on Manastone though - great hour-per-plat investment. For Manastone, I made friends. People assume the dude camping Manastone is some druggy on caffeine. It's mostly groups of friends/guilds.

So you never did Efreeti or Ghoul Lord (relatively difficult camps) but you did camp Fishbone Earring, GBS, Jboots (multiple times) and Manastone (camps that are flat out time sinks).

This is your claim to not being a neckbeard? Yeah, I think I'm gonna let the jury be out on this one.

EDIT: But I mean, as long as you're having fun doing this, more power to ya. I understand that you want to protect a system that nurtures someone of your character.

[Castle2.0]

Oooo looks like I gotta make a retraction. I have solo'd Ghoul Lord camp because camp was open and I was camping neg MR rings. Did a few rounds. Done Efreeti many times before Green. I didn't skip these camps because difficulty - just no interest in the items themselves and can make money more efficiently elsewhere.

I was the first person to solo Priest of Discord on Green. With 32,000 hp, Cheal, and decent resists, I'd say it was a fun go. Thread on that in my signature. Much more difficult mob than Efreeti or Lord.

As you can see from my sig, I'm not super interested in doing the same rodeo this time around. Camping a Manastone was necessary to fund some of my more interesting pending projects. Stay tuned.

Ahhhh I see now, you're the same goober who said

Yeah GL with that 200k sale. Looking at auction tracker you can see the same few sellers unable to sell their manastones and some in blind optimism asking 200k. As Manastones are now reaching 200k... Excellent.


Neckbeard
a man who is socially inept and physically unappealing, especially one who has an obsessive interest in computing. Guess it has nothing to do with camping legacy items :D

[sajbert]

As Manastones are now reaching 200k... Excellent.

You mean back when you (supposely) sold your for at best 170k?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366513&page=5


Yeah you got me there.


Oh and I’ve yet to hear of anyone actually paying 200k. I see them still go for around 150k.

[Castle2.0]

I sold that Manastone from the auction.

Even now Mauvin offering to buy at 175k (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368551) Since you think that's overpriced, if you had one (and I'm guessing you don't) you could go make some big money (by your own standard). Prices are rising. Don't worry mate, I'll one of my manastones for 200k+

[turbosilk]

FWIW, I never camped, owned, bought or sold FBSS, SSoY, Djarns Ring or GEBs on any toon on Teal/Green ever. I camped 1 EB earring, 1 GBS (more knowledge and patience over time than long hours), /listed a few jboots. Had to go in on Manastone though - great hour-per-plat investment. For Manastone, I made friends. People assume the dude camping Manastone is some druggy on caffeine. It's mostly groups of friends/guilds.

Oh, and I've only socked a few dragons. I just recognize EQ for what it is man. I'm just clearheaded and accept the Norrathian reality as it is. But if people wanna put a persona on me that I'm a neckbeard just because I have a somewhat extreme personality and a predilection toward discussing game mechanics in detail.... *shrug*

EQ is my hobby. It's where I spend my free time working on different, interesting projects (see my signature.) The one I am working on now is quite interesting, and I look forward to sharing it with you and putting a smile on your face, like it has on mine.

I have a wife, own my business, and do a lot of work from home (way before COVID.) Lifestyle helps. Students can get all their studies done, nail their exams, and play hookie on some classes if they want. They can get straight A's and still manage to go hardcore in a game like EQ. They aren't without commitments, they just have a different lifestyle.

If you have a 9-5 job, a wife, and kids, it'll be tough to do things like a /list camp - but I met people in that situation that did because *drum roll* they made friends.

The people saying account sharing is for neckbeards and it locks out casuals are simply the casuals who have yet to find friends to share with. Take away account sharing on /list and you will have only hardcore neckbeards - I'd be off that /list as well.

It's like democracy. Worst system except for the rest. /list is best because all the alternatives are worse.

Well said about not needing to be a neck beard and being successful in life. I too got my manastone because of a group of friends playing together. Team Manastone was the first group to kill the EE and get the first manastone (all but our necro ended up with one). All of us have families, kids (except for the younger sons playing) and successful careers.

We had a great time meeting up one night a week for over 6 months before green launch learning strategies, doing quest testing and just testing testing testing.

[Bigcountry23]

Have done the list several times since AC started popping. The Kingdom list is better than whoever is lead trying to manage a hand typed list of 70+ people (it was bad enough when it was at 30+ the first couple run throughs). You can go off and work on other things as long as you keep an eye on the website. Easy enough a caveman could do it.