A Message from Lineage to the Green Community

[Delekhan]

Hello everyone on the Green server. We know there has been a lot of speculation as to why Lineage had left the UN last Friday, so we are submitting this statement to clear the air.

To quickly recap the circumstances leading to our exit on Friday, an earthquake was triggered around midday and our limited force available during those hours was looking for a target. After looking at what the other guilds were doing, we noticed CI was forming up to go into Hate for their regular clear schedule and reached out to join forces and make an attempt for Inny. This was on the fly and we banded together as allies. It was an exciting moment for us and something I am sure we'd all like to see on Green for the community as a whole. An incident occurred with a competing guild and we lost the opportunity.

Our response is not about a desire to obtain free loot or complain about competition, nor were we particularly upset about losing the race to Inny, but more the manner in which it occurred, and how the aftermath was handled. I hope the subsequent actions taken by Lineage demonstrate this is not about a desire for instancing or desire to remove competition which, incidentally, is what the UN actually provides with the rotational content (simulated anyway).

The complete indifference to the Green community, the derisive response afterward, and the willful steamroll of the minority is the point of contention. So the question then becomes; Why remain a participant in a body that seemingly does not value the community and its members to foster friendly competition? I suspect that is why this action may appear confusing to the UN. No rules were broken, and Lineage has left the UN anyway. We don't know if a rule can be made to prevent this behaviour or to make people care about each other and the community. As crazy as it sounds there are a lot of people on Green that really do care about this game and the people that play it.

So to set the record straight, we are not upset, nor are we greedy, or shying away from the competition. Lineage does not see a benefit to the UN in its current form, and we are welcoming anyone who wishes to compete or collaborate.

[Tankwipe]

what's a lineage

[Paleepscherone]

ST act like friends because they only do so since they are in the dominating position, but whenever there is a rat race...they dont care one minute what happens and their true colors come out. Only winning. And if they dont win, it must be something the other raid force did! Oh and forget about apologies! Concession concession!

Oh and lately has anyone heard of them using line of sight tricks on pulling! Got scared on a potential lost FTE and had to go ghetto pull inny . Did it on Sunday too and trained fed force who alreay had line of sight on inny (and pulling down to first floor, no yellow text).

[Cawin]

Good luck Lineage! Best wishes and safe travels.

[Snortles Chortles]

https://i.imgur.com/xF2mbJj.gif

[Bardp1999]

So to set the record straight, we are not upset, nor are we greedy, or shying away from the competition.

It literally sounds like you are doing all these things?

[Arvan]

I wouldnt worry about it, literally zero of those mobs matter as kunark and velious are coming later with better things.

[Videri]

Our response is not about a desire to obtain free loot or complain about competition, nor were we particularly upset about losing the race to Inny, but more the manner in which it occurred, and how the aftermath was handled.

Can you elaborate? It's hard to form an opinion when I don't even know the problem you're trying to solve.

[therealmd]

It’s a video game...

[Fammaden]

Good luck at Phinny tonight guys. If you don't win please train the fuck out the lair...by accident of course.

[Videri]

It’s a video game...

I never agree with it when people say this. The items are just pixels, sure, and by extension, the unfairness; but the relationships are real. The respect - or lack thereof - is real.

[fastboy21]

Hello everyone on the Green server. We know there has been a lot of speculation as to why Lineage had left the UN last Friday, so we are submitting this statement to clear the air.

To quickly recap the circumstances leading to our exit on Friday, an earthquake was triggered around midday and our limited force available during those hours was looking for a target. After looking at what the other guilds were doing, we noticed CI was forming up to go into Hate for their regular clear schedule and reached out to join forces and make an attempt for Inny. This was on the fly and we banded together as allies. It was an exciting moment for us and something I am sure we'd all like to see on Green for the community as a whole. An incident occurred with a competing guild and we lost the opportunity.

Our response is not about a desire to obtain free loot or complain about competition, nor were we particularly upset about losing the race to Inny, but more the manner in which it occurred, and how the aftermath was handled. I hope the subsequent actions taken by Lineage demonstrate this is not about a desire for instancing or desire to remove competition which, incidentally, is what the UN actually provides with the rotational content (simulated anyway).

The complete indifference to the Green community, the derisive response afterward, and the willful steamroll of the minority is the point of contention. So the question then becomes; Why remain a participant in a body that seemingly does not value the community and its members to foster friendly competition? I suspect that is why this action may appear confusing to the UN. No rules were broken, and Lineage has left the UN anyway. We don't know if a rule can be made to prevent this behaviour or to make people care about each other and the community. As crazy as it sounds there are a lot of people on Green that really do care about this game and the people that play it.

So to set the record straight, we are not upset, nor are we greedy, or shying away from the competition. Lineage does not see a benefit to the UN in its current form, and we are welcoming anyone who wishes to compete or collaborate.

All the sincerest and most accepted apologies happen here in the RnF forum. We welcome you and look forward to how this goes for all parties.

Irony, you leave the UN forcing you to take your crisis to RnF...which is now the forum par excellence to diffuse server wide crisis. Up is down. Left is right...cats and dogs living together...Baler banned while cucks train innocent people all over upper guk. The madness is upon us.

[cd288]

Long post about how they’re leaving and why but not saying why/what happened. Shoulda posted this in guild discussion or something. Crappy RnF thread with no details

[kaev]

The madness is upon us.

says you been here 11 years... wow! you're even slower on the uptake than I am! or wait... is that, is it, could it be, ... irony?

[Shanetarin]

Long post about how they’re leaving and why but not saying why/what happened. Shoulda posted this in guild discussion or something. Crappy RnF thread with no details

Was originally posted in Green and Teal discussion but was moved to RnF by moderators even though it had no rant or flame.

[Rang]

Is this a troll? I guess you got me

[Kohedron]

Hey OP that's interesting because my guild is in a similar spot except we know there has been a lot of speculation as to why Lineage had left the UN last Friday, so we are submitting this statement to clear the air.

To quickly recap the circumstances leading to our exit on Friday, an earthquake was triggered around midday and our limited force available during those hours was looking for a target. After looking at what the other guilds were doing, we noticed CI was forming up to go into Hate for their regular clear schedule and reached out to join forces and make an attempt for Inny. This was on the fly and we banded together as allies. It was an exciting moment for us and something I am sure we'd all like to see on Green for the community as a whole. An incident occurred with a competing guild and we lost the opportunity.

Our response is not about a desire to obtain free loot or complain about competition, nor were we particularly upset about losing the race to Inny, but more the manner in which it occurred, and how the aftermath was handled. I hope the subsequent actions taken by Lineage demonstrate this is not about a desire for instancing or desire to remove competition which, incidentally, is what the UN actually provides with the rotational content (simulated anyway).

The complete indifference to the Green community, the derisive response afterward, and the willful steamroll of the minority is the point of contention. So the question then becomes; Why remain a participant in a body that seemingly does not value the community and its members to foster friendly competition? I suspect that is why this action may appear confusing to the UN. No rules were broken, and Lineage has left the UN anyway. We don't know if a rule can be made to prevent this behaviour or to make people care about each other and the community. As crazy as it sounds there are a lot of people on Green that really do care about this game and the people that play it.

So to set the record straight, we are not upset, nor are we greedy, or shying away from the competition. Lineage does not see a benefit to the UN in its current form, and we are welcoming anyone who wishes to compete or collaborate.

[alkalinesky]

Feel free to reach out to Lineage leadership directly if you would like additional details as to Lineage's perspective on the situation.

It is not appropriate to be bashing other players and guilds in the spirit of community. This was not intended to be in the R&F thread and we are not interested in drama.

[fak]

Lineage would like to be a competitive guild and had little opportunity for growth under the previous structure. We have neither the force size of the federation or the knowledge and skill of Seal Team. Being legitimately competitive on 7 day targets requires immense resources that are hard to produce, which leaves us more competitive on server quakes. Unfortunately on the Friday quake, ST diverted their attention to a lower priority target to ensure that they wouldn't lose a 7-day target, left a messy situation, and there was a miscommunication afterwards which removed the opportunity for us to attempt another raid encounter.

I understand and respect ST wanting to hit every target. I probably would too. But we would like opportunities for growth and that comes through competition (or more quakes). ST will never back down so maybe they'd like to see this too. Racing BL to Phinny was a ton of fun tonight...grats BL on the W! We have a lot of respect for the UN guilds but we had to do what was right for our guild at this time. See you in Norrath!

[Phaezed-Reality]

i love to bash players and other guilds. As far as im concerned you are all bad. like really bad. like it wouldn't take much to compete against seal team on this server and yet they all fail time and time again. and then cry like they are 5 years old about it. it's amazing. it's honestly amazing how coddled you are and expect to be moreso. I would have grinded you into dusty by assigned dkp to hold every camp exp and item camp down to the FBSS camp by now and griefed you crybabies the fuck off.

[Ashenden]

Sure there's video that what we're saying isn't true, and sure our guild leader has that video, and sure he left the UN before even seeing that video.

But what has Rome done for us lately?

[RecondoJoe]

Sure there's video that what we're saying isn't true, and sure our guild leader has that video, and sure he left the UN before even seeing that video.

But what has Rome done for us lately?

+1.

Here is the video.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92yw1eiO7Ig) It's all the evidence you'll ever need to see.

Also we're recruiting BTW, please visit the link below the video.

[Lothisu]

So what exaxtly happened in hate? I'm assuming Lineage was clearing to Inny when Seal Team ported in, trained the zone, got fte, tagged out and killed and now they are butt hurt?

[Danth]

For the benefit of those not active on Green, what is "UN" and how does it operate?

Danth

[Nuggie]

Lineage was a part of a union that got them some targets once in a while(not 7-day, but something). They were disrespected by ST on Inny. Their response is to leave the union in hopes of getting more targets.

Is that correct? How do you expect to train your raid force without the easy targets to practice on? How is a new player supposed to get comfortable without something to practice on?

Not only are you going to get less targets because of this, but you're going to get less recruits. More of your people will leave quicker. Your guild will shrink and die. This was a very poor decision if your goal was to build the guild and compete more. Sounds more like your leadership didn't want to/couldn't put up with all the overhead that being in the UN creates and is throwing in the towel.

[Nuggie]

For the benefit of those not active on Green, what is "UN" and how does it operate?

Danth

The UN allows for a rotation of "lesser" targets to the smaller guilds. Tranix, phinny, planar trash. I'm sure PoSky will join that list pretty quick after release(personally I think this needs to be outside the UN so when the UN fails PoSky-rotation isn't effected).

[Lothisu]

Does Lineage have players from Blue who have experienced the blue raid scene?

[fak]

Some lineage have, yes

[Keebz]

I personally don't think the UN is particularly good for smaller guilds. It severely limits the amount of loot available to your guild and shoehorns you into specific times. The bigger, stronger guilds already have their loot, and can secure larger/more time slots in the schedule. Meanwhile, night time slots aren't even getting cleared, while people awake during those hours don't contest, due to UN rules, further limiting loot available.

Nuggie mentioned something about "practicing" for competitive content, but the rotational content provides no competition and is not really the best way to learn how to FTE. Everyone just gets lulled into complacency of just showing up at some scheduled time, half-afking for DKP and maybe getting some planar.

I think the UN made a lot of sense when LR and Cryosilk was in game, and fear would have just been a shitshow 24/7 with out it. But at this point, the UN just keeps the big guilds in power, and the smaller guilds complacent. Some smaller guilds may be totally happy with this, of course. But I think the value proposition of the UN is somewhat contextual to the experiences and ambitions of the member guild.

Anyway, that is my rant, you are welcome to flame and disagree.

[Lothisu]

Some lineage have, yes

Hate to say it but if you're a new guild on green with little to no experience from the blue server raid scene you might as well just disband now or take what you can get out of this UN agreement until Kunark comes out with more raid content.

[Nuggie]

@Keebz, you're forum join date was 2010. Do you not recall classic/kunark being 95% being locked down by the "big" guild of the day? ST could do that now and are choosing not to even though they could. Acting like they're some horrible monster for choosing to not lock content down is unappreciative and is where the "welfare-pixel" tag gets thrown back in the direction of the casuals. "You people" could get none. Instead you get some and complain it's not enough.

[fak]

Seal Team runs our server. From how you are talking it sounds like they are not as oppressive as Riot.

[RecondoJoe]

Seal Team runs our server. From how you are talking it sounds like they are not as oppressive as Riot.

The funny part is anyone can join Seal Team if they want to. The reality is most people aren’t willing to put in the work to become part of their raid team.

[Keebz]

Acting like they're some horrible monster for choosing to not lock content down is unappreciative and is where the "welfare-pixel" tag gets thrown back in the direction of the casuals. "You people" could get none. Instead you get some and complain it's not enough.

I never used those terms, but I see where you're coming from. Perhaps my qualms are more with the current state of the UN and its various agreements. I certainly don't mean to imply intent, or malice, or disparage ST or other guilds in any way. I merely wanted to express a sociological perspective on the nature of the power structure we have created. Specifically, I assess it as putting bounds on the upward mobility for the smaller guilds, which may or may not be an acceptable trade off in the eyes of the guild in question.


Do you not recall classic/kunark being 95% being locked down by the "big" guild of the day? ST could do that now and are choosing not to even though they could.


It is definitely nicer in some regards this time around, but as far as 7 day targets are concerned, it does seem like the most powerful guild, ST, is getting a very large percentage of targets and is not open sharing outside of competitive FTE (which is understandable).

[Rick Sanchez]

i love to bash players and other guilds. As far as im concerned you are all bad. like really bad. like it wouldn't take much to compete against seal team on this server and yet they all fail time and time again. and then cry like they are 5 years old about it. it's amazing. it's honestly amazing how coddled you are and expect to be moreso. I would have grinded you into dusty by assigned dkp to hold every camp exp and item camp down to the FBSS camp by now and griefed you crybabies the fuck off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT17uFri5F0

[Danth]

The funny part is anyone can join Seal Team if they want to. The reality is most people aren’t willing to put in the work to become part of their raid team.

This has been true of pretty well every high-end guild on P1999 since 2009. Guilds on P1999 never developed the culture of exclusivity that permeated the high-end culture from the original game.


Danth

[Shanetarin]

Lineage was a part of a union that got them some targets once in a while(not 7-day, but something). They were disrespected by ST on Inny. Their response is to leave the union in hopes of getting more targets.

Is that correct? How do you expect to train your raid force without the easy targets to practice on? How is a new player supposed to get comfortable without something to practice on?

Not only are you going to get less targets because of this, but you're going to get less recruits. More of your people will leave quicker. Your guild will shrink and die. This was a very poor decision if your goal was to build the guild and compete more. Sounds more like your leadership didn't want to/couldn't put up with all the overhead that being in the UN creates and is throwing in the towel..


What exactly is an easy target to practice on once every 7 days with 5 targets that die within 15 minutes of pop? Rotational Phinney and Fire Giants? Can be done with 1 group+ with the right set up. None of which closely approximates a 7-day target.

Obviously there is a significant gap in knowledge and execution between the top guild and everyone else. That's fine and their right to hold everything down if they so choose. Go for a lesser priority target if you think it'll hold someone down under your foot. The onus is on us to get better, that's fine.

Want competition practice? Contest things that are contestable on a more frequent basis. Can't do that in the UN due to agreements. I'd like to think that even racing for Phinney from zoneline benefits both parties involved, not just the "enemy of the state". And in the end the "good guys" might win anyway. Everyone loves a happy ending!

Sticking with the UN in an unfavorable position would just mean stagnation and that's truly what can lead to dissent. Seriously have had more fun in the past several days than just mindlessly consuming content that has been graciously allotted to us by our benevolent overlords. Will it last forever? Who can say.

In the end it's all about fun right? Win or lose, would rather have an opportunity to see the biggest and baddest stuff in the game. Our decision was not about the other guilds in the UN, trying to grief anyone in particular. Just the best decision for Lineage at this time.

The UN is an excellent choice for the guilds it's a fit for. Lineage has obviously been in a position where it was good for us as well. But it's not the only way. Some may agree, some may not, but I'm positive we'll treat everyone with respect and have fun along the way.

[Nuggie]

Yea, but ST has some personalities in it that are reprehensible and for some people the trade-off for "good gear" isn't worth it.

[Nuggie]

@Shanetarin

I don't understand. You had the option to compete for 7-day targets before you left. Right? The only thing that wasn't available for you to compete against was the softer targets. How does leaving the rotation, and feeding your members what gear that was available from them, help them against 7-day targets? You will get less gear. Your team will get less dopamine releases from winning. They will get irritable about losing and eventually people will leave. If I sound like I've been through this before it's because I have. I've always put myself in the underdog position. It didn't work out for me. I wish you all the best.

[fak]

You don't think racing for phinny will make us better? Even if you're right the last few days have been a lot more exciting than just showing up for loot.

[Kahan]

All the sincerest and most accepted apologies happen here in the RnF forum. We welcome you and look forward to how this goes for all parties.

Irony, you leave the UN forcing you to take your crisis to RnF...which is now the forum par excellence to diffuse server wide crisis. Up is down. Left is right...cats and dogs living together...Baler banned while cucks train innocent people all over upper guk. The madness is upon us.

The mods moved the post here FROM the Green forum.

[Shanetarin]

@Shanetarin

I don't understand. You had the option to compete for 7-day targets before you left. Right? The only thing that wasn't available for you to compete against was the softer targets. How does leaving the rotation, and feeding your members what gear that was available from them, help them against 7-day targets? You will get less gear. Your team will get less dopamine releases from winning. They will get irritable about losing and eventually people will leave. If I sound like I've been through this before it's because I have. I've always put myself in the underdog position. It didn't work out for me. I wish you all the best.

Sure, but you said easy targets to practice on. Which I still don't see them.

Nothing to stop us from getting gear at whatever rate we feel like we need to. 2 weekly 2am fire giant slots that frequently get pushed to even less desirable times? How is that beneficial?

As we've left the UN we're not restricted to planar slots, so we can go in at a greater or lesser rate than previous. Maybe we have to do twice the work for the same gains. We'll do what's right for our guild and membership. The overall timeslots for UN guilds have now gone up with our departure, so theoretically it might even be beneficial for the UN.

You're right, 7-day targets have nothing to do with the UN, so our inclusion or not also has no bearing on any attempts we might take at those. Except maybe now we're more of a target since we're not conforming, but we haven't exactly been shown much good will before.

Thanks for the well wishes, sorry your experiences didn't work out. Stay tuned!

[Kahan]

@Shanetarin

I don't understand. You had the option to compete for 7-day targets before you left. Right? The only thing that wasn't available for you to compete against was the softer targets. How does leaving the rotation, and feeding your members what gear that was available from them, help them against 7-day targets? You will get less gear. Your team will get less dopamine releases from winning. They will get irritable about losing and eventually people will leave. If I sound like I've been through this before it's because I have. I've always put myself in the underdog position. It didn't work out for me. I wish you all the best.

Our recruitment has never been better, our raid attendance has never been higher, our moral has never been stronger. You couldn't be more wrong.

[Shanetarin]

You don't think racing for phinny will make us better? Even if you're right the last few days have been a lot more exciting than just showing up for loot.

Exactly. Even losing phinny race brought more of a smile to my face than showing up at 9pm to do the same swim and standard spank. I hope Black Lotus had as much fun as we did, at the very least they took the competition in stride and were class acts.

[Plaguu~]

i love to bash players and other guilds. As far as im concerned you are all bad. like really bad. like it wouldn't take much to compete against seal team on this server and yet they all fail time and time again. and then cry like they are 5 years old about it. it's amazing. it's honestly amazing how coddled you are and expect to be moreso. I would have grinded you into dusty by assigned dkp to hold every camp exp and item camp down to the FBSS camp by now and griefed you crybabies the fuck off.

hmm, looks like Seal Team has filed 11 elf court petitions while the the combined total for the UN is 16. So, who are the crybaby retards then? You must have friends in high places Ramal. I seriously don't understand why you aren't banned.

[Rick Sanchez]

My old veterans will know this, whatever the case maybe, someone in ST are pals with a GM. Question is, who is this era’s Xzerion.

[OuterChimp]

I did a /random 100 and it came up as a 99.

Do i win any phat lewtz?

[Ashenden]

My old veterans will know this, whatever the case maybe, someone in ST are pals with a GM. Question is, who is this era’s Xzerion.

Yeah Seal Team definitely knew there was going to be a 3AM quake, that's why they had 37 whole people online.

And they definitely know which mob is going to spawn in what order on repop days, they never get caught standing at the wrong thing and have delayed deployments for it.

And GMs are definitely keeping them from getting in trouble, that's why the GMs are trying to make guilds use the UN to settle disputes via vote instead of petitioning to lower their workload.

This trite shit is so dumb.

[galach]

Yeah Seal Team definitely knew there was going to be a 3AM quake, that's why they had 37 whole people online.

And they definitely know which mob is going to spawn in what order on repop days, they never get caught standing at the wrong thing and have delayed deployments for it.

And GMs are definitely keeping them from getting in trouble, that's why the GMs are trying to make guilds use the UN to settle disputes via vote instead of petitioning to lower their workload.

This trite shit is so dumb.

https://i.imgur.com/mwVPnEI.gif

[Snortles Chortles]

https://i.imgur.com/S8XFmun.jpg

[azeth]

.


What exactly is an easy target to practice on once every 7 days with 5 targets that die within 15 minutes of pop?

You don't need a raid target to practice raiding. For example batphone a raid on a specific guard in Erudin. You're going to test your raiders ability to organize, form port groups, form smart groups, not attack until aggro is established, solo pull/clean pulls.

Every successful guild has done this or something similar to it periodically to make their team cohesive.

By your admission your guild is an under dog in terms of know how and skill - both of these things require work to correct.

[Coridan]

You don't need a raid target to practice raiding. For example batphone a raid on a specific guard in Erudin. You're going to test your raiders ability to organize, form port groups, form smart groups, not attack until aggro is established, solo pull/clean pulls.

Every successful guild has done this or something similar to it periodically to make their team cohesive.

By your admission your guild is an under dog in terms of know how and skill - both of these things require work to correct.

Raid Mayor Gubbin

[Nuggie]

I don't know about Gubbin, his faction is pretty irritating to repair. .

[BenDerisgreat]

https://i.imgur.com/mwVPnEI.gif

As if.