What exactly changes for Mages / Pets in Kunark?

[VincentVolaju]

So I've read and heard multiple people say in-game how right now Mages and pets in general, are very powerful; but once Kunark comes out, all that changes.

What exactly does that mean?

Do Mages / Mage pets get a nerf when Kunark is released?

Or, is it that the power level of mobs in Kunark are stronger than classic, and therefor in Kunark zones, mages feel less powerful? If so,then does that mean if you simply stayed leveling in classic world zones, even after Kunark, you would still be just as "powerful" as you are now, pre-kunark?

[Bristlebaner]

The power curve of mobs starts to exceed the power curve of pets at a great speed. It's unfortunate, and takes 2 expansions for Sony to realize their error (When PoP launched they increased pet level from high 40s to 60s)

Good example:

49 earth pet has max 2900HP. 57 earth pet caps at 3200. For the 57 to tank nearly as well as the 49 on current content, it would need 4000+ HP. Kunark was an easy way to leave pets behind after all the complaints melee had in classic about how pets were better than them.

[M.J.]

Most people are referring to the magician "solo" ability when they talk about the mage class (and pets) changing.

You can still solo to 55 easily fighting 40s, but finding old world level 45ish mobs with low health is hard or flat out impossible 55+ for most, and kunark 45+ mobs are far tankier than mages and their pets, and they dish out far more damage more quickly. Which is why enchanters dominated Kunark for however many years of Kunark blue99 went through, their "pet" DPS and health scaled with the content because they use charm, and mages just don't have a full toolkit in any one pet until the epic, and even then you're doing a 2 pull at most and blowing one of them up.

The Sebilis entrance is where you'll see many epiced mages wondering why they didn't roll necro or enchanter, because you need your epic and root nets to 100% get past see invis frogs - while shamans, necros, druids, enchanters, even wizards, can handle the same entrance break with ease.

49 pets VS 57-60 pets is another thing, mages are used to getting 4 pet options per spell level, and EQ Devs decided to underwhelm them with useless fire pets and no new meat & potatoes pet for handling harder mobs until 57, then their objectively best tanking earth pet at 51 is situationally worse against casters for pet chaining due to higher mana cost and near equal health to 49 focused pets. So 55-57 if you're hardcore dedicated to solo feels like dragging your sanity over razor wire, and if anyone believes differently please share your leveling spots.

That said 49-55 is a breeze against low hp classic mobs that come single or in pairs, use Focused earth pets on casters and focused fire pets on melee and chain pets, maybe pick up a burnt wood staff or whatever for extra lazy grinding, watch out for the odd 2khp buffed NPCs that are undercons compared to their neighbors, and then invest in Vitamin D because you won't be seeing any of the camps it's easy to level in unless you're a vampire or Euroscum or a pity case with Enchanter / Necro friends.

[Castle2.0]

Even the epic pet is a nice upgrade. +1 level from other pets, +800hp on the earth pet, +11 dmg melee, 50 dmg DS, some great procs... but still doesn't scale.

With how difficult it is to get and the fact you can't chain it more than once, they coulda gave the pet another +2 levels, +1k hp, +20 dmg melee.

[Izmael]

You can chain it twice without corpse (current pet + 1 charge orb + spell ready to recast), or you can corpse a bunch of orbs and just go bananas chaining (not sure it's worth the trouble though).

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Mages are still a fantastic GROUPING Class come Kunark. You'll not have trouble finding groups usually in places like Seb. ESPECIALLY once you have COTH at which point you become an insta-invite to most groups for that utility alone.

I know you asked about pets but other ppl have spoken to that so figure I'd drop something else.

[Castle2.0]

Yep. That's the path. Kill 1 mob, ding 51. Solo 51-55 old world easy. Get COTH @ 55, group to 60.

[Christina.]

We don't get weaker. Mobs get tougher.

Besides soloing once your high level is boring. Play with friends and guildies. We are still serious DPS come kunark with 60 water pet. Hits 72 (if focused) nukes 116 and backstabs for 204.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

And obviously, if you're lucky enough to end up with a Mage epic, you become god-tier til the end of the timline

[Danth]

In addition to the above (pardon if I missed a comment), also note that the fire pets--a staple of pre-expansion Magicians--are widely regarded as terrible post-level 50. Furthermore, Velious comes out soon enough and it amplifies the problem: Velious monsters tend to hit a lot harder than Kunark opponents do and Magicians will be stuck using the same pets that were already borderline inadequate in Kunark. Many years of history on P1999-blue demonstrate that a great many Magicians will top out at level 55 for Call of the Hero at which point they'll quite often be relegated to pre-park duty. Those who make the push to 60 are most often grouping or at least duo'ing for much of their gameplay time.

Danth

[Christina.]

Soloing after 55 is just tedious. That's pretty much for every class.

[Bristlebaner]

Soloing after 55 is just tedious. That's pretty much for every class.

My enchanter was a breeze solo past 55. Necro easy too.

Howling Stones is divine.

[Selene]

So can anyone who has actually leveled a mage from 55-60 comment on this? Is it feasible in a practical sense to find camps or mobs and solo all the way to 60?

Because I really hate grouping on my mage

[damus1]

iirc i did burning woods giants most the time to 60. i imagine theres probably faster places but mage shouldn't have any problem soloing all the way thru

[cd288]

So can anyone who has actually leveled a mage from 55-60 comment on this? Is it feasible in a practical sense to find camps or mobs and solo all the way to 60?

Because I really hate grouping on my mage

I imagine if you bought metric tons of malachite and chain summoned you could probably solo 55-60

[Albane]

The power curve of mobs starts to exceed the power curve of pets at a great speed. It's unfortunate, and takes 2 expansions for Sony to realize their error (When PoP launched they increased pet level from high 40s to 60s)

Good example:

49 earth pet has max 2900HP. 57 earth pet caps at 3200. For the 57 to tank nearly as well as the 49 on current content, it would need 4000+ HP. Kunark was an easy way to leave pets behind after all the complaints melee had in classic about how pets were better than them.

This is the perfect response. Mobs gain 2x the health and hits 2x harder. Your pet gets 25% better.

[Velerin]

This was many years ago but I did a lot of solo in Kedge post 55 in Undertow area. Invis to the safe corner before his room. Clear the piranhas 1 at a time with body pull (don’t let pet go up there or you pull mults). They give a bit of exp but mostly just to get out of the way. Use root net and coth to split 2 seahorses. Then kill other seahorse, then the single mermaid. This is how I soloed Undertow too. Was decent solo exp.

[Scoojitsu]

Use root net and coth to split 2 seahorses.

Just curious, how does that work exactly?

[Christina.]

My enchanter was a breeze solo past 55. Necro easy too.

Howling Stones is divine.


Right but I think a good Seb group is much faster not to mention the full group so bonus.

[Christina.]

So can anyone who has actually leveled a mage from 55-60 comment on this? Is it feasible in a practical sense to find camps or mobs and solo all the way to 60?

Because I really hate grouping on my mage


I have a 60 magician and I can assure you soloing to 60 on a mage is going to take a hell of a long time lol. You'll be chain summoning like a mofo. You'll give up lol. Just group past 55

[Christina.]

I imagine if you bought metric tons of malachite and chain summoned you could probably solo 55-60


Right lol. Not worth anyone's time lol

[Cen]

When you jump away from the Earth, are you escaping the earth, or are you pushing the Earth away from you? Albert Einstein had an answer, and so does Kunark melee gear and pet spells.

[Velerin]

Just curious, how does that work exactly?

Cast root net on one from far away. Back into corner until other comes to you out of sight of the other. Make sure pet never got agro on rooted one.
COTH self so other forgets you.
Unless coth has changed from a few years ago?

[Vaarsuvius]

I imagine if you bought metric tons of malachite and chain summoned you could probably solo 55-60
Don't think you will be able to do so as long as pet chaining and pet aggro are broken. You will end up with a mob ignoring your newly summoned pet and chasing until you die, gate or pet lands a lucky root

If it has been fixed (haven't played my CotH bitch on blue for more than a month now so I could not say for sure), the collective p99 mage wisdom would suggest you to chain MS2 pets which cost 33% less mana than an earth pet

Rince, repeat, profit

[cd288]

Don't think you will be able to do so as long as pet chaining and pet aggro are broken. You will end up with a mob ignoring your newly summoned pet and chasing until you die, gate or pet lands a lucky root

If it has been fixed (haven't played my CotH bitch on blue for more than a month now so I could not say for sure), the collective p99 mage wisdom would suggest you to chain MS2 pets which cost 33% less mana than an earth pet

Rince, repeat, profit

Granted I’m not sure what it used to look like but I haven’t had trouble with pet aggro. I have to strafe run for several seconds while my pet whacks it for a bit but other than that

[Sabin76]

Granted I’m not sure what it used to look like but I haven’t had trouble with pet aggro. I have to strafe run for several seconds while my pet whacks it for a bit but other than that

This is good news. There were reports that it was impossible for the newly summoned pet to get agro off of you because the old pet agro transferred, but maybe they fixed it? Would like to get a second opinion, though.

[Selene]

This strategy of COTH yourself to remove aggro no longer works I heard. The devs here do not allow you to erase aggro anymore on yourself. So you can't use it to single pull anymore, which is sad because its the only way to single pull as a mage.

To add insult to injury, the pets on this server don't seem to cast their spells as much as on live. I remember my earth pet on live would keep casting the damn root so often I would even get frustrated that it wasn't actually attacking! (I remember my earth pet literally getting a mob down to 5% health and then dying because it chain casted root instead of finishing him off). So without even pet's root being cast often enough, there is no way to split mobs using the pet's CC. And now root nets arent rechargeable I hear??

All this talk of a mage's inability to solo past 55 efficiently makes me want to re-roll into enchanter....ughhh

[damus1]

pet agro is still pretty broken, not at all sure exactly how it works, but as you go through more pets the agro accumulated on the mage becomes progressively worse. If you let one die then switch to a second its pretty minor, after that you need to kite more and more each pet to regain agro -- most noticable while soloing allizewsaur who requires 3-4 pets. at #4 it takes about 2-3 mins of kiting

not sure if its intentional or not by the devs (i assume so), but it makes low # phinny, qwinn, dragon, whatever-else kills a lot less effective than it was on blue or live. will make sky alot harder too if people try the same cheesy strats that used to work

[M.J.]

not sure if its intentional or not by the devs (i assume so), but it makes low # phinny, qwinn, dragon, whatever-else kills a lot less effective than it was on blue or live. will make sky alot harder too if people try the same cheesy strats that used to work

i wonder if this is why dotted pre-charmed mobs followed me around once charmed, some sort of sticky threat coding that persisted once THEY became the pets. Was a new experience if harmless with low level oasis crocs... though I imagine positioning and amusement factor would be a lot different with CoM / KC / HS / Seb charm pets.

[Vaarsuvius]

This strategy of COTH yourself to remove aggro no longer works I heard. The devs here do not allow you to erase aggro anymore on yourself. So you can't use it to single pull anymore, which is sad because its the only way to single pull as a mage.

To add insult to injury, the pets on this server don't seem to cast their spells as much as on live. I remember my earth pet on live would keep casting the damn root so often I would even get frustrated that it wasn't actually attacking! (I remember my earth pet literally getting a mob down to 5% health and then dying because it chain casted root instead of finishing him off). So without even pet's root being cast often enough, there is no way to split mobs using the pet's CC. And now root nets arent rechargeable I hear??

All this talk of a mage's inability to solo past 55 efficiently makes me want to re-roll into enchanter....ughhh

Unless it's been changed on blue, I think that was what mage pullers did in Chardok AoE groups to clear aggro after before someone with DA would heal them & transfer aggro to group

Will have to check self COtHing but if a mob still has aggro on your pet, aggro will transfer to you no matter how many times you CoTH yourself...

Will have to parse my logs again but I think pets (at least air & water) do cast their innate ability every tick like they did on live

[Bristlebaner]

This strategy of COTH yourself to remove aggro no longer works I heard. The devs here do not allow you to erase aggro anymore on yourself. So you can't use it to single pull anymore, which is sad because its the only way to single pull as a mage.

To add insult to injury, the pets on this server don't seem to cast their spells as much as on live. I remember my earth pet on live would keep casting the damn root so often I would even get frustrated that it wasn't actually attacking! (I remember my earth pet literally getting a mob down to 5% health and then dying because it chain casted root instead of finishing him off). So without even pet's root being cast often enough, there is no way to split mobs using the pet's CC. And now root nets arent rechargeable I hear??

All this talk of a mage's inability to solo past 55 efficiently makes me want to re-roll into enchanter....ughhh

You are correct about pets casting substantially more.

Here is a really old bug thread. Telin confirmed but needs Rogean to fix code:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107938

[Jimjam]

It's important to package any bug report as a nerf to players.

Bugs requiring buffs to players can be overlooked, cos tbh they doing fine. All content is clearable.

Bugs requiring nerfs to players are important as those players are able to accomplish unclassic levels of success.


A call to fix pet spells needs to be sold as

"Mage pets are delivering unclassically high levels of dps as they aren't having enough missed rounds due to not spamming spells"

not

"My Earth pet isn't insta casting root so I can't break up two spawns so easily".

[Christina.]

a call to fix pet spells needs to be sold as

"Mage pets are delivering unclassically high levels of dps as they aren't having enough missed rounds due to not spamming spells"

But that isn't true lol. I don't play as magician on green but I know that they aren't delivering more damage due to not casting their spells as much lol. Your quote sounds like mage hate lol.

[cd288]

But that isn't true lol. I don't play as magician on green but I know that they aren't delivering more damage due to not casting their spells as much lol. Your quote sounds like mage hate lol.

He’s just giving an example of how to package a bug report in general. But anyway, technically he’s not wrong. If a pet isn’t casting root as much then it’s potentially doing damage in those rounds instead

[Christina.]

He’s just giving an example of how to package a bug report in general. But anyway, technically he’s not wrong. If a pet isn’t casting root as much then it’s potentially doing damage in those rounds instead

Got cha.

[Jimjam]

Thank you for clarifying cd288 I’m not so good at expressing stuff :).

[Ligma]

Self CoTH should work on green when it gets to that. It is classic but it gets changed at some point. I don't remember when.

[Bardp1999]

The only classes who will be able to solo without high levels of gear will be Enchanters, Necromancers, and Shamans... and I guess filthy Bards. Druids and Wizards can quad but I am not sure thats really all that great past 55... Bear pits for Druids is incredibly dangerous and usually leads to more XP lost than gained.

Anyhow, even the 'good' solo classes typically duo or trio past 55 in my experience because you dont have to play the charm break game or worry about dieing as much.
Shamans with Epic I think have the easiest time of any class because its no brain rooting and mana-free DoTing... CoM will be littered with Epic shamans killing 5+ mobs at a time on the upper levels, and HS will be littered with enchanter/cleric duos.

But to your question Mages become less OP because Melee gets boosted from better itemization and your pets dont really scale up... and on raids most guilds wont even let you have a pet up because they can be huge liabilities with pathing so you become a summon/CoTH bot and nothing more in the end game.

Guild Leader: Summon more rods slave
Mage: I have 300 rods down sir
Guild Leader: Great! Now log onto a warrior/cleric/rogue so you can actually be useful to the raid... oh! and log your shit mage out in the corner so when we need to CoTH in more people we can
Mage: Yes sir!

[Christina.]

Guild Leader: Summon more rods slave
Mage: I have 300 rods down sir
Guild Leader: Great! Now log onto a warrior/cleric/rogue so you can actually be useful to the raid... oh! and log your shit mage out in the corner so when we need to CoTH in more people we can
Mage: Yes sir!

This true. And reason I am unguilded lol they'll tell you, u can join as a mage but will need to play an actual"useful" class as well.

[Bristlebaner]

This true. And reason I am unguilded lol they'll tell you, u can join as a mage but will need to play an actual"useful" class as well.

To be fair, outside of clerics and the main tank...most guilds would rather you log off your enchanter, shaman, mage, necro, druid and log into a guild cleric account. It's just reality.

[Danth]

To be fair, outside of clerics and the main tank...most guilds would rather you log off your enchanter, shaman, mage, necro, druid and log into a guild cleric account. It's just reality.

Perhaps, but it only requires a little bit of backbone to say, "No."

Danth

[kaev]

To be fair, outside of clerics and the main tank...most guilds would rather you log off your enchanter, shaman, mage, necro, druid and log into a guild cleric account. It's just reality.

Your paladin can stay if there are DTs to be eaten

[Jimjam]

Perhaps, but it only requires a little bit of backbone to say, "No."

Danth

I’ll just bring whatever I fancy or is most convenient for me. If asked to switch to a different toon I’ll politely decline, and perhaps explain I’m not interested in playing shareds or trashing faction on my ‘optimum’ toon. If the issue continues to be pressed I’ll lose any interest in playing and /q.

I’m a massive child.

[Fammaden]

To be fair, outside of clerics and the main tank...most guilds would rather you log off your enchanter, shaman, mage, necro, druid and log into a guild cleric account. It's just reality.

Rogue too, not in this vanilla era of green but a 60 epic rogue is probably the only class choice that's never going to get shamed into switching to a shared cleric.