Camp rule clarification

[douglas1999]

If you die at a camp you are holding solo, is it forfeit? Or do you have a certain window to get back to the camp before somebody else can take it?

I took over a camp somebody died at, and they showed back up like 4-5 min later and said it's camped. I didn't argue the point and gave it back, but it did make me wonder what the actual rule is?

[Aueamin]

If you die, zone log out or anything to leave the zone you forfeit the camp.

[ChooChoo Train]

Lol - you die you lose the camp even if you are bound 10 feet from it if someone else engages before you.

[douglas1999]

Ok that's what I thought. I was too nice to that dude!

[Kich867]

To piggy back on this a little. I had a small dispute with a group awhile back in paw, they were obviously breaking into the zone because they were still at the entrance and lots of mobs were still alive.

I went and started fighting the gnoll in front of the safe room. They stormed in and took it from me, claiming I was trying to steal their camp. However it was clear they hadn't been camping this yet since both the safe room mob and the little bedroom next to it were both up and the mobs near the double doors were also up.

Do they actually have any rights to those mobs? I bounced because I didn't feel like dealing with it, but my understanding was that I didn't do anything wrong there, they either weren't even where they intended to camp yet, or they couldn't hold the mobs they said they were claiming.

A second scenario was less confrontational but, I arrived at Vhalen Nostrolo to see him still up and an AFK feigned monk there. I hailed him, I cc'd, no response, I waited about 2 minutes, no response, so I took him.

While killing Vhalen for the second time, the monk sent me a tell saying he was logging off and I could have the camp if I wanted it. I said sure, but at that point I had been at the camp for almost 10 minutes anyways with this dude afk. If he came back, did he actually have any right to it? Nostrolo would've been up for almost 10 minutes.

[Jack N]

To piggy back on this a little. I had a small dispute with a group awhile back in paw, they were obviously breaking into the zone because they were still at the entrance and lots of mobs were still alive.

I went and started fighting the gnoll in front of the safe room. They stormed in and took it from me, claiming I was trying to steal their camp. However it was clear they hadn't been camping this yet since both the safe room mob and the little bedroom next to it were both up and the mobs near the double doors were also up.

Do they actually have any rights to those mobs? I bounced because I didn't feel like dealing with it, but my understanding was that I didn't do anything wrong there, they either weren't even where they intended to camp yet, or they couldn't hold the mobs they said they were claiming.

A second scenario was less confrontational but, I arrived at Vhalen Nostrolo to see him still up and an AFK feigned monk there. I hailed him, I cc'd, no response, I waited about 2 minutes, no response, so I took him.

While killing Vhalen for the second time, the monk sent me a tell saying he was logging off and I could have the camp if I wanted it. I said sure, but at that point I had been at the camp for almost 10 minutes anyways with this dude afk. If he came back, did he actually have any right to it? Nostrolo would've been up for almost 10 minutes.


Hard to believe that someone would become indignant over a mob they're not killing!

[Exard3k]

A second scenario was less confrontational but, I arrived at Vhalen Nostrolo to see him still up and an AFK feigned monk there. I hailed him, I cc'd, no response, I waited about 2 minutes, no response, so I took him.


Well the rules state that you keep the mob(s) or PH(s) cleared. Doesn't say how long the mob may stay unengaged to meet the requirement of "cleared". So the two parties have to figure it out with each other about that.

[ajdes]

if you die you DO technically forfeit the camp. However, if its clear thats what happened and they came straight back I would most likely give the camp back. I just think thats the "play nice" thing to do. They are probably already having a bad day if they just died.

[Ivory]

Ok that's what I thought. I was too nice to that dude!

There is a difference between "legal" and "right"!

Legally you CAN take it....but it's a jerk move. Especially when trying to snipe a camp from some group exping or something (happened to my group! we had all gotten together a full group for some adventure.....died to a train...and someone sniped it! ...but they left soon after, so it worked out ok).

[Sabin76]

It's probably loose on purpose. I'm just thinking of breaking the crystal room in Najena. With a 19 minute respawn, the last magician would be up for a minimum of 11-12 minutes before I actually engaged it. This was never a dispute (Najena's fairly dead... pun totally intended), but "keep ___ cleared" ---> "actively clearing" ---> "waiting for an appropriate time to engage to break a camp" is something that should probably be discussed between the players.

Now, what happens if someone purposely trains your camp (sure the trainer can get in trouble, but can someone else come and claim your camp? That sounds like it could be abused)? What if someone accidentally trains your camp and you wipe? What if it's a bad pull? What if it's only a partial wipe (monk and/or necro FD), but need to wait for the dead parties to get back? I think there's a bit more nuance to holding a camp than "if you die, you lose the camp".

[Kich867]

It's probably loose on purpose. I'm just thinking of breaking the crystal room in Najena. With a 19 minute respawn, the last magician would be up for a minimum of 11-12 minutes before I actually engaged it. This was never a dispute (Najena's fairly dead... pun totally intended), but "keep ___ cleared" ---> "actively clearing" ---> "waiting for an appropriate time to engage to break a camp" is something that should probably be discussed between the players.

Now, what happens if someone purposely trains your camp (sure the trainer can get in trouble, but can someone else come and claim your camp? That sounds like it could be abused)? What if someone accidentally trains your camp and you wipe? What if it's a bad pull? What if it's only a partial wipe (monk and/or necro FD), but need to wait for the dead parties to get back? I think there's a bit more nuance to holding a camp than "if you die, you lose the camp".

I believe that would then fall under that looseness. Personally, if a group wiped in a spot for whatever reason, it's not unreasonable to assume that they won't be back and set up in time for respawns and it should be fine if another group moved into that spot.

Rezzes take awhile, melee getting back there takes awhile, medding and rebuffing all takes awhile.

If it's a partial wipe, no, the camp is obviously still theirs I wouldn't try to break in if they're still there.

[cd288]

If you die, zone log out or anything to leave the zone you forfeit the camp.

I believe you also lose the camp if you go run around in the zone, to vendor for example, and don't come back in time for the respawn.

[loramin]

I believe you also lose the camp if you go run around in the zone, to vendor for example, and don't come back in time for the respawn.

Within a "reasonable" time of the respawn:

If you are to claim this point you must get aggro/First to Encounter (FTE) within a reasonable amount of time.

Everyone can define "reasonable" how they want, but you won't know whether it really was reasonable or not until someone takes a video that shows waiting exactly that long, /petitions, and has a GM make a ruling :)

[cd288]

It's probably loose on purpose. I'm just thinking of breaking the crystal room in Najena. With a 19 minute respawn, the last magician would be up for a minimum of 11-12 minutes before I actually engaged it. This was never a dispute (Najena's fairly dead... pun totally intended), but "keep ___ cleared" ---> "actively clearing" ---> "waiting for an appropriate time to engage to break a camp" is something that should probably be discussed between the players.

Now, what happens if someone purposely trains your camp (sure the trainer can get in trouble, but can someone else come and claim your camp? That sounds like it could be abused)? What if someone accidentally trains your camp and you wipe? What if it's a bad pull? What if it's only a partial wipe (monk and/or necro FD), but need to wait for the dead parties to get back? I think there's a bit more nuance to holding a camp than "if you die, you lose the camp".

If someone purposely trains your camp and you have proof then yeah the staff would give the camp back to you if there was a dispute.

If there’s a bad pull and your whole group wipes usually people will give you a reasonable period of time for at least one or two group members to get back to establish that you’re going to keep clearing. If it takes like 20 minutes for anyone to get back there though you’ve probably lost the camp.

If most of your group wipes and there’s still one or two people alive there, you haven’t given up the camp so long as your group is making its way back there and does so within a reasonable period of time (reasonable period of time being taken within context...I.e. if you wipe in Highkeep everyone better be back pretty quick since you can all be bound there; whereas if you wipe in Unrest melee get a reasonable period of time to run back from their bind point in Kaladim or GFay).

[BlackBellamy]

It's funny how the reactions change when you top out. Like I don't need any exp and I don't need any gear and I definitely don't need any plat. So I'm out there just screwing around, doing some quests, but if I see some camp I'll take it because why not. HBC, TBB, some kind of B.

And someone shows up 5 minutes later and they're like my game crashed, or I had to relog, or some other sob story how they weren't actually here when I took the camp and I'm just like here you go buddy and then buff them and go on do something else. Good luck hope it rains loots on you.

Before that I had my elf law books out, OBS firing on all 12 monitors, an independent witness standing behind me and two court reporters on adderall giving it their all. And I fought the good fight; subparagraph B section 1 clearly proves I'm right, no need for the jury to retire! And when I lost I would skulk away like Gollum whispering threats of trains and doom.

Now I see why the idle rich are so nonchalant about things. I can just buy my happiness.

[cd288]

It's funny how the reactions change when you top out. Like I don't need any exp and I don't need any gear and I definitely don't need any plat. So I'm out there just screwing around, doing some quests, but if I see some camp I'll take it because why not. HBC, TBB, some kind of B.

And someone shows up 5 minutes later and they're like my game crashed, or I had to relog, or some other sob story how they weren't actually here when I took the camp and I'm just like here you go buddy and then buff them and go on do something else. Good luck hope it rains loots on you.

Before that I had my elf law books out, OBS firing on all 12 monitors, an independent witness standing behind me and two court reporters on adderall giving it their all. And I fought the good fight; subparagraph B section 1 clearly proves I'm right, no need for the jury to retire! And when I lost I would skulk away like Gollum whispering threats of trains and doom.

Now I see why the idle rich are so nonchalant about things. I can just buy my happiness.

This made me laugh a lot. Thank you. Hope you’re staying safe in these crazy times fellow New Yorker!

[Sabin76]

I appreciate the responses to my post.

Perhaps my post count masked my intentions, but those questions were mostly rhetorical. As in, clearly there's more to it than "if you die, you lose the camp". While a good rule of thumb, there's a bit of wiggle room, as you all pointed out.

[Snortles Chortles]

if you die you DO technically forfeit the camp.

[douglas1999]

There is a difference between "legal" and "right"!

Legally you CAN take it....but it's a jerk move. Especially when trying to snipe a camp from some group exping or something (happened to my group! we had all gotten together a full group for some adventure.....died to a train...and someone sniped it! ...but they left soon after, so it worked out ok).

I completely agree. However the person might also be a huge asshole, but I generally assume they aren't if I don't know them. The karmic calculus gets dicey quick.

[douglas1999]

Btw I'm specifically talking about the dwarf camp along the shoreline in butcherblock, people seem to die at that camp so often and I'm not sure why

[NPC]

If you die at a camp you are holding solo, is it forfeit? Or do you have a certain window to get back to the camp before somebody else can take it?

I took over a camp somebody died at, and they showed back up like 4-5 min later and said it's camped. I didn't argue the point and gave it back, but it did make me wonder what the actual rule is?

So on live you had lists, you do CC an if someone claims you ask if there's a list, can you go on it. If someone or group is at a camp an they've CC'ed, an they wipe, its still their camp. Only an azz would try to take a camp from someone if they died. You leave for any other reason the camp should be open, but taking from people that died will be abused by those that would train, common sense why old school Live did not play like that.

[douglas1999]

So on live you had lists, you do CC an if someone claims you ask if there's a list, can you go on it. If someone or group is at a camp an they've CC'ed, an they wipe, its still their camp. Only an azz would try to take a camp from someone if they died. You leave for any other reason the camp should be open, but taking from people that died will be abused by those that would train, common sense why old school Live did not play like that.

Yeah but if there are rules like "You have to keep the mobs cleared and engage them soon after spawning" then surely "if you fuckin die" should also be a condition to surrender a camp