What does velious actually add?

[magnetaress]

Lots of ice? Massive faction grinds? Different giant models? +100 hpmana's?

I've dug around in Velious a bit, but I feel like outside of Tofs and crystal caverns it offers very little actual exploration and lore. I feel like in just greeting the trade commissioner in Shadowhaven and running out towards the echo caverns and fungus grove to help out some struggling street vendors. In one Luclin quest I have already uncovered more lore and mystery than the entire velios expac provided.

Velious feels more like a wow expac. New stuff. Much "progression".

In classic we get the fresh exposition of a new world, many cities, evil gods. Evil dragons. And a lot of crazy wizards who are after what got the goblins and giants in trouble.

Kunark has the ring of scale scheming behind the scenes. The discovery of the old Iksar empire. And the really bad dudes, Venril Sathir playing the evil side against the others.

Velious adds.. the dragons are still dicks, but bigger dicks with more loot.

Luclin adds a whole new world with a variation on the fantasy motif. Vampires. Three really cool human factions. The very end game Vex Thal is a bit of a let down, but in exploring Katta, Seru, Shadowhaven we get to see three very different paths for humanity. None black and white given what the original group of combined faces when stranded. Not only that, But it's the mysterious combine empire shattered in 3rds. Norraths living history, it's roots, in a glass bottle. Which is probably why the moon has a savage, barbaric, prehistoric feel. The Vah Shir force the players to confront an idealized nonhuman, less anthropomorphic society and species. And are a great juxtaposition to counter and mirror the rest of the content. They are the true heroes.

[Jimjam]

The best thing about Velious is the sign for the boat in Erudin.

The most valiant thing about Velious was how it was designed to be a sump for the pixel addicts, freeing up the rest of the server space for role play and adventure in exciting locations like Tofs. Sadly Brad underestimated the pixel sickness and over estimated the emergent RP so our experiment in reconstructive archaeology has resulted in wall staring race lines instead of merry SS crawls.

[Jimjam]

I didn’t pay for velious on release cos having an entire the two zones of everfrost’s giants and permafrost’s dragon spread across a whole continent seemed lazy.

[magnetaress]

I didn’t pay for velious on release cos having an entire the two zones of everfrost’s giants and permafrost’s dragon spread across a whole continent seemed lazy.

Twas my impression too, alas, I was a spoiled wealthy kid with a $15 an hour job. I just handed Verant my money. I think iceclad was fun but then I definitely got less immersed once I saw GD EW and WE where essentially the same giant loot grazing plains.

Skyshrine,WL, cobalt scar, and sirens grotto are cool. They're more like dungeons though. They offer loot. Some limited exploration. Not a ton of lore.

Maybe if I had started bedecked in planar I would have cared, still not though. I only ever spent DKP on a fear plane wizzy robe.

[roks1]

There's books of lore located in Thurgadin library if you're interested in the dwarves. velious lore was primarily (as i don't have any behind the scenes knowledge) focused on the Sleeper and the story behind it. You'll hear Jaled'dar whinging and moaning about the poor sleeper and why it was a mistake for the head dragons (i guess?) to imprison the beast. I suggest if you're looking -- look in that direction.

It is indeed too bad the 3 factions didn't flesh out, even though there's plenty of quests dealing with random nonsense. I haven't found a vendor in skyshrine that sells lore books like the library in thurgadin but i haven't looked all that hard either.

Also, Velious brought us the ring event mechanics that started the evolution of raids (god knows what they look like now). Also, while i've not done it, i think there's plenty to be learned by doing the final shawl quest that's unavailable in our timeline.

What velious really is missing is the Strange Clicky Items like the SoW katana, or a manna robe/mana stone and things along those lines.

[magnetaress]

There's books of lore located in Thurgadin library if you're interested in the dwarves. velious lore was primarily (as i don't have any behind the scenes knowledge) focused on the Sleeper and the story behind it. You'll hear Jaled'dar whinging and moaning about the poor sleeper and why it was a mistake for the head dragons (i guess?) to imprison the beast. I suggest if you're looking -- look in that direction.

It is indeed too bad the 3 factions didn't flesh out, even though there's plenty of quests dealing with random nonsense. I haven't found a vendor in skyshrine that sells lore books like the library in thurgadin but i haven't looked all that hard either.

Also, Velious brought us the ring event mechanics that started the evolution of raids (god knows what they look like now). Also, while i've not done it, i think there's plenty to be learned by doing the final shawl quest that's unavailable in our timeline.

What velious really is missing is the Strange Clicky Items like the SoW katana, or a manna robe/mana stone and things along those lines.

Wizards got a pretty good clicky robe from velious so they don't need a manastone for norrmal gameplay anymore pretty much. IMO.

Yeah, I need to go talk to the damn dwarves, ugh... I hate them :(

Actually, I want to faction for the giants and listen to them, they probably have the coolest story.

There was a lot of room for orcs and dwarven story lines. And there's those tizmaks and kodiaks, wouldn't it have been cool if you found out they were the decendents of some werewolf line, or something, the tizmaks are essentially velious minos.

I think velious was somewhat a response to "OMG we are going to get sued for naming this mob a gnoll, lets put some stuff in we can point to and say look we didn't blatantly plagurize..."... I think the people behind writing for EQ got a bit better by 2002.5-3 too.

[Jimjam]

“Is it not that life is but a series of battles?”

Them giants have profound moments.

[magnetaress]

“Is it not that life is but a series of battles?”

Them giants have profound moments.

I'm sure they have their in groups and out groups I wonder what they feel about their exile to Velious? Why they are still so dedicated to their god Rallos Zek after he basically encouraged them to do something like invading the homes of the other gods to get 90% of their population to be neutered? Do they have a favorite cuisine or are they basically like ogres and trolls in that regard? What do they think they are going to get for fighting the dragons other than world domination and better loot? Or is there a reason, maybe a more altruistic one for them to 'end the dragon threat once and for all'.... Do they remember the other giants and their lands at all? Are they trying to cure any of them? Do they care about their fire giant brothers still slaving away in the mines of Solusek. Would they invade the planes again? Why are there no giants on the moon of Luclin? Have the giants traveled to other worlds, I mean they were basically planes walkers with armies to defy the gods... :o

Big questions could be asked and there could be a myriad of interesting answers.

[Jimjam]

Everquest seems an IP designed to raise questions and invites the player to fill out the answers.

Perhaps that is why Michael’s Mysteries are so popular?

As to cuisine, that is answered in game by the food vendors.

It’s a real shame you can’t have a conversation with Derakor the Vindicator. It would be nice if perhaps he shouted his twisted rantings for the zone to hear.

They seem to regard the children of Veeshan as vermin, quite rightly, and you are right there are so many questions raised that I would love detailed.

Michael, Shenanigan a video of the true children of zek!

[Baler]

I do think Kunark is the Creme dele creme of the classic era. Velious feels more like a booster pack of content than a full expansion in the way kunark was.

[sacman08]

Just more pixels of gear.

[Clearmind]

snow

[aaezil]

Kunark is like one raid zone and a bunch of high level dungeons and playable iksars...

Velious has an epic giant city with complex lore and 3 complex joinable factions (even an exiled mad wizard and his dungeon) within or you can raid them, dwarves two factions or raid them, dragons one faction or raid them with an additional awesome dragon graveyard zone full of its own quests.

Sure the overland maps are a bit bland and expansive but iceclad has cool quests and Wakening Land is a fun 55+ exp zone plus has the entire plane of growth attached.

For 58+ there is the weirdest and perhaps best zone in the game Plane of Mischief.

I think blow for blow Velious beats out kunark for the amount and quality of content

[sacman08]

Developers thought they could slow power player progression by adding factioning in Velious. Everyone quickly skipped building faction with giants and would just do Coldain then dragons. Plus forced exploration of giant zones to discover content. I remembering being annoyed that I would spend all my playtime running from place to place to try to find somewhere I could get in a group or solo for exp.

[cd288]

I do think Kunark is the Creme dele creme of the classic era. Velious feels more like a booster pack of content than a full expansion in the way kunark was.

Wasn’t Kunark also already at least partially in development by the time the game released? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the original plan was to have Kunark in the game all along from the start but they couldn’t get it done in time. If so, that may explain why it was a lot more fulsome than Velious which was a “true” expansion pack. Luclin also felt similarly bland to me.

[douglas1999]

Velious adds so much lore. What even is this? You are gay.

[magnetaress]

Velious adds so much lore. What even is this? You are gay.

Giong to spend my time researching this and continue coming to my own conclusions, but I never could find it because I probably never bothered to run all the way across the eastern wastes.

I do believe my opinion could change as I haven't really sat down with Velious much.

[loramin]

Personally I think some of the best things in Velious are quests. You've got the really big "epic" quests: the seven shawl quests, ten dain ring quests, and the spirit of garzicor quest ... and then you have the tons of Tunare quests in WL and various smaller quests for each of the factions.

I think to see the lore of Velious, you just need to go do those quests.

[magnetaress]

The 1st shall quest is like "me hungry want meet or furrs", some dwarf, I never bothered looking after that.

[magnetaress]

At the end of the previous quest, Betti Frostweaver told you to show your Embroidered Coldain Prayer Shawl to Gilthan Brittleblade.

Gilthan Brittleblade says 'So, you've been chosen to attempt the rune, eh? Been ages since anyone's even made an attempt. The rune represents the very essence of our people, our culture, and our religion. Take a sea shell runed with enduring breath and a small brick of velium and grind them together in a mortar and pestle. Add water to the powder and model the rune. Fire the rune with water and the best of firing sheets. Show the product to Trademaster Kroven.'

So Coldain dwarfs like sea shells fire and water? And are good at pottery?

Like seriously, why? what does this supposed rune represent Coldian solidarity with uhmm...? Seashells? or something.

[Mblake81]

I think Kunark and Velious were originally planned to release with the first game.

https://i.imgur.com/Dj0J973.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kV7vPvW.jpg

[Thomacles]

Velious adds so much lore. What even is this? You are gay.

Calling someone gay as an insult. LOL! That's just adorable! Takes me right back to the 80's. You know, 40 years ago? Truly classic, that.

[Philistine]

I'm surprised to hear so many people aren't fans of Velious! I haven't gotten there yet on P99, due my noob status, but on Live it was one of my favorite expansions. Dragons, dwarves, and lions locked in battle, clashing whenever they cross paths, and we get to pick a side! A giant stronghold, a dragon stronghold, and a zone of more accessible dragons outside! Great gear! Epic shawl and ring quests!

I<3 me some Velious:)

[Mblake81]

Calling someone gay as an insult. LOL! That's just adorable! Takes me right back to the 80's. You know, 40 years ago? Truly classic, that.

How does being 40 years old make it not gay? tolerance is one thing, acceptance is another. I can tolerate a lot of things but accept few. Part of getting along is tolerating, live and let live. Accepting is a whole other story.

I can tolerate the fact transvestite troll the living hell out of me online but I will never accept a Monster Truck in the shape of a giant dildo with hormone pills and anal eaze as sponsors. Leave that internet based lulz shit at the door, try to fit in. Thanks.

[magnetaress]

How does being 40 years old make it not gay? tolerance is one thing, acceptance is another. I can tolerate a lot of things but accept few. Part of getting along is tolerating, live and let live. Accepting is a whole other story.

I can tolerate the fact transvestite troll the living hell out of me online but I will never accept a Monster Truck in the shape of a giant dildo with hormone pills and anal eaze as sponsors. Leave that internet based lulz shit at the door, try to fit in. Thanks.

Thanks god, had a good laugh me neither.

[loramin]

How does being 40 years old make it not gay?

Because everyone living in this millennium understands that being gay is not a bad thing ... but when you use gay as a pejorative it implies that it is?

[Baler]

*tinfoil* Velious map was on in game art at classic launch!

[Mblake81]

Because everyone living in this millennium understands that being gay is not a bad thing ... but when you use gay as a pejorative it implies that it is?

It's not bad to someone who accepts it, maybe because they have leanings towards it or a friend they like and don't want to be rude. Whatever the case is.

Say no to weed.

[magnetaress]

https://loreofnorrath.wordpress.com/category/frost-giants/

here we go!

[magnetaress]

I agree kunark and velious were probably intended to be part of the game, but they decided maybe later about halfway through.

Imagine if p99 green had to start in velious with no classic or kunark eras?

[magnetaress]

King Tormax

As the King of the Storm Giants, Tormax rules over both the Kromzek and Kromrif clans. His lasting desire is to see every last Velious dragon crushed beneath a giant’s maul. To further illustrate this fact, Tormax sits upon a throne carved from the skull of the dragon Hsagra, the mate of Yelinak of Skyshrine, who was felled by a Kromzek hero’s blade.

The Dragons of Velious are not Tormax’s only enemies, as the Coldain dwarves despise him and his people with a passion equal to his own. It was Tormax’s blade that killed Dain Frostreaver III, the great War King – a deed that has earned him eternal infamy among the Coldain.

Points of Interest

Frost Giant District:
The Frost Giant district is the most primitive portion of Kael Drakkal. The Storm Giants have allowed the Frost Giants to construct their own buildings of ice and stone. The Frost Giant leader lives in a huge mansion near the center of the city.

City Center:
The city center is a town square. It serves as a nexus to all portions of the city. In the middle of the Town Square lies a deep pit. The Storm Giants throw the remains of their enemies within this pit after they have removed the bones, and all the roads in Kael Drakkal are paved with the crushed bones of their enemies.

Battle Arena:
The battle arena was built to honor Porlos who slew Yelinak’s mate Hsagra. Embossed on the ground is an image of Porlos holding Hsagra’s head in victory with the body lying before him. A statue to Rallos Zek towers over the arena, and the temples to Tallon Zek and Vallon Zek flank it on each side.

Rallos Zek’s Temple:
The temple of Rallos Zek is the largest and most important of the three temples. It stands behind the statue in his likeness.

Vallon Zek’s Temple:
The temple built in honor of Vallon is not as grand his father’s, but it does not lack in splendor.

Tallon Zek’s Temple:
The temple built in honor of Tallon is likewise not as grand his father’s temple, but it is equal to that of Vallon.

Dragon Death Keep:
The main residence of the Storm Giants, Tormax’s keep is built from stone and steel. Tapestries telling the history of Rallos Zek’s battles line the walls. Tormax’s throne is carved from the skull of Hsagra.

West Side:
The western part of the city borders into the Savage Lands. A constant struggle between the jungle and the Storm Giants goes on, with the jungles slowly losing ground.

From this I can tell the giants who fought the dragons held themselves superior to those that were relegated to fighting the dwarves. Porlos being a giant? Wizard, Giant Wizard?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Porlos%27_Fury_Quest HERE WE GO!!! Look to the wizards for the real lore.

[Mblake81]

*tinfoil* Velious map was on in game art at classic launch!

Possible that kunark and velious were extra zones for leveling and exploring. Iksars might've just been to help sell an expansion, thus giving them all sorts of bonuses to seem appealing. There was no other races for velious. K nor V have gypsy camps or inns.

Honestly I think it was, the two expansions offer none of the RPG elements the original did. You don't have to research any spells but just spent 50 levels working it up to play in the games environment for spell casters.

level 60 was tacked on for character progression and each xpansion features improved graffix. Thus setting the mold for games outside of the genre a decade later when large companies launch their MMORPG copy known as Live Service. EQ is my favorite pc game ever made but it could very well have helped screw it all up.

[magnetaress]

The Dragon Sage says 'The giants, smarter than expected, began watching and observing the habits of the dragons. They paid close attention to the things the dragons avoided... certain plants and watering holes. It was determined that a particular type of plant, when mixed with other reagents, was deadly to the dragons. The giants adapted their technique to specifically harm Yelinak's brood in order to give them an advantage. The ancient Kromzek King, Porlos, used this to aid in his battle with Hsagra, Yelinak's mate. Porlos killed Hsagra, forever bringing Yelinak's vengeance upon his family. Thus began the eternal war between the giants and the dragons.

[Snortles Chortles]

oh WoW COOL BraND nEw YuGE ZoNeS ThoT ALL LoOk liKe PiC RelaTeD

https://i.imgur.com/JYPpvLg.jpg

[magnetaress]

Ok, so the spell was indeed crafted by an elf, named for a Kromzek king.

[magnetaress]

Still not as cool as Seru's beef with Katta tho :)

[Mblake81]

Giants guard dragons in classic.

The dynamic of them being against Veesham in Kunark was to help set that expansions plot and to provide intrigue on which faction you join and the kinds of loot you seek. It doesn't jive with the original game.

Kael should have been the entry way to Skyshrine. It is.. sort of.

Vp has no giants guarding it, instead the giants are hill billies in other zones. They had to show off the new wyrm model some more.

[loramin]

It's not bad to someone who accepts it, maybe because they have leanings towards it or a friend they like and don't want to be rude. Whatever the case is.

Say no to weed.

Yeah, weed is so much worse than making people feel bad for the way they were born :rolleyes:

[magnetaress]

but liek... the scattered bit of lore for Velious ...

vs... this tele novella...

https://www.writeups.org/akheva-everquest/

[magnetaress]

Stolen creatures originally from Norrath and other places which include Cheetahs, Zelniaks (created by Luclin from the cheetas) and lightcrawlers;

hehehehe

[Mblake81]

Yeah, weed is so much worse than making people feel bad for the way they were born :rolleyes:

If you wish to look at it that way. I was pointing that weed makes white men a bit fay, just a little bit.

Is it wrong for a man, who is not gay, to consider something is gay and not for him?

likewise

Is it wrong for a gay man, who is not straight, to consider something is straight and acceptable? I mean, he wouldn't be gay anymore he would be bi.

[Snortles Chortles]

what a fire giant

[magnetaress]

I bet the Akhevans didn't reproduce sexually, thusly they were asexual.

Like me!!!

[magnetaress]

it is said they made many avatars :D and u could kill the avatar, but the shade would always live on, spooky

[Mblake81]

Ima go find something to eat while Loramin rolls him a joint.

[magnetaress]

If they hadn't tried talking to the combine folk, they probably would have invaded norrath and destroyed the dragons while the giants picked their noses.

[magnetaress]

Yo, loramin, u got any favorite tidbits of EQ lore?

[loramin]

Yo, loramin, u got any favorite tidbits of EQ lore?

Every Kraddok video ever ;)

Aside from that though, not really. Personally I find most of the EQ lore boring/derivative. It's a bit fun when someone (like Kraddok) explains it, but it's not nearly cool enough to make me put in effort to learn it.

Also, BTW I looked at the Shawl quests again (it's been awhile since I did them), and you're right: there's not a lot of lore to them (I was remembering things like the prayer to brell part, or finding that scout dwarf, which were fun and unique aspects of the quest ... but there's only barely any story involved).

There's a bit more story to the other two "Velious epic quests" (eg. Spirit of Garzicor tells the story of Garzicor), but not that much. I'm actually starting to come around more to your point of view: compared to the stories in the epic quests in Kunark ... or even just some of the stupid quests in classic/Kunark ... Velious does seem kinda light on lore.

[loramin]

Is it wrong for a gay man, who is not straight, to consider something is straight and acceptable? I mean, he wouldn't be gay anymore he would be bi.

It's wrong to use any otherwise neutral adjective that describes a core aspect of how someone is born (their race, their sexual orientation ... heck even their height or mental disability) as a derogatory term.

Most English speakers can understand that when you do that, you're equating the way that person was born with a negative value ... in other words you're indicating that you believe that group of people are inferior, because you're using the word that describes them as a slur.

[cd288]

Possible that kunark and velious were extra zones for leveling and exploring. Iksars might've just been to help sell an expansion, thus giving them all sorts of bonuses to seem appealing. There was no other races for velious. K nor V have gypsy camps or inns.

Honestly I think it was, the two expansions offer none of the RPG elements the original did. You don't have to research any spells but just spent 50 levels working it up to play in the games environment for spell casters.

level 60 was tacked on for character progression and each xpansion features improved graffix. Thus setting the mold for games outside of the genre a decade later when large companies launch their MMORPG copy known as Live Service. EQ is my favorite pc game ever made but it could very well have helped screw it all up.

I think Iksar existed before any idea about how best to sell an expansion. And their AC boost is the only meaningful benefit they have that you can find in another race for most of their classes (regen is the same as Troll) and even that isn’t that meaningful.

[Mblake81]

It's wrong to use any otherwise neutral adjective that describes a core aspect of how someone is born (their race, their sexual orientation ... heck even their height or mental disability) as a derogatory term.

Most English speakers can understand that when you do that, you're equating the way that person was born with a negative value ... in other words you're indicating that you believe that group of people are inferior, because you're using the word that describes them as a slur.

Because that person sees it that way. It's not what they like. Wouldn't it be more appropriate if using the word gay to describe something you don't like is pretty much neutral but say if you phrased it as "That game is gay like Loramin" would be describing them.

Because I think you are a bit fruity, tbh.

Me and Patriam have talked shit about each other many times. Him going on about dumb Rednecks and me normally countering it with something about Adobe. Big whoop. Trannies as well, magnet doing the dead skin mask thing.

Where were you, again, when someone like Patriam was talking about dumb rednecks? did you come swooping in like the gay avenger to correct the privileged minority that it is not nice nice to do that? no.. or please link where you did and I will take it back.

[kaev]

I think Iksar existed before any idea about how best to sell an expansion. And their AC boost is the only meaningful benefit they have that you can find in another race for most of their classes (regen is the same as Troll) and even that isn’t that meaningful.

Troll can't be necro, is where regen most valuable. And regen + ac makes noticeable edge for monk.

[Mblake81]

I think Iksar existed before any idea about how best to sell an expansion. And their AC boost is the only meaningful benefit they have that you can find in another race for most of their classes (regen is the same as Troll) and even that isn’t that meaningful.

Nightvision. Before everyone and their twink had an ultravision item. Humans dont have that. Had to play with gamma cranked way up which is a pretty retarded way to bypass it.

AC bonus.

100 swim skill. Nice for a new player, less chance of drowning.

Regen. Always nice for the classes that have it. Gives iksar an advantage with monks and necros.

Advanced character model.

Forage. Again, one less thing for a new player to keep up with and need less returns to a city for food and water.

Iksars made both the monk and necro classes have pretty much one option if you wanna min/max, which raiders were all about. Before iksars, what mattered?

[Kohedron]

It adds bragging rights for snaggletooth nosepickers.

That's it.

[magnetaress]

Troll lives matter.

In all seriousness though untwinked Iksar have every advantage, and by thurg, again with fewer relevant armor restrictions. Ok. Maybe ogre gets sham.

My next project is to dig into Kraddoks vids. Thanks for.

Also I would love running around in velious on a max vshan ally n diety bard getting secrets about every other major player and group from the various dragons. Need to be Bard, diety Veeshan, and speak elder dragon or they just ignore u or get angry regardless of faction. Also just hailing a dragon without voulentearing a specific question or info with honorifics should have gotten every one eaten.

[loramin]

Because that person sees it that way. It's not what they like. Wouldn't it be more appropriate if using the word gay to describe something you don't like is pretty much neutral but say if you phrased it as "That game is gay like Loramin" would be describing them.

Because I think you are a bit fruity, tbh.

Me and Patriam have talked shit about each other many times. Him going on about dumb Rednecks and me normally countering it with something about Adobe. Big whoop. Trannies as well, magnet doing the dead skin mask thing.

Where were you, again, when someone like Patriam was talking about dumb rednecks? did you come swooping in like the gay avenger to correct the privileged minority that it is not nice nice to do that? no.. or please link where you did and I will take it back.

Wait, so because I haven't addressed every insensitive thing ever posted on this forum ... I'm a hypocrite, and it's ok for you to denigrate people based on facts they have no control over?

Just want to make sure I have this brilliant bit of logic straight.

[Mblake81]

Wait, so because I haven't addressed every insensitive thing ever posted on this forum ... I'm a hypocrite, and it's ok for you to denigrate people based on facts they have no control over?

Just want to make sure I have this brilliant bit of logic straight.

Seems to me that is so, maybe you just prefer singling me out because I am white and rural because this like the second or third time we have done this little dance.

[Woke Locc]

Wait, so because I haven't addressed every insensitive thing ever posted on this forum ... I'm a hypocrite, and it's ok for you to denigrate people based on facts they have no control over?

Just want to make sure I have this brilliant bit of logic straight.

Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere

[Snortles Chortles]

https://i.imgur.com/yEnILss.png

[Detoxx]

They literally wrote and entire language for Luclin. It was the peak of EQ's popularity which started to fall off mid PoP id say. Luclin is by far one of the best expansions but everyone is blinded by Cats on the moon and Bazaar but neglect to realize that AA's, majority of the raids and lore, and Beastlords made Luclin on of EQ's best expansions.

[Detoxx]

http://temerityguild.org/forums/thread-9358-post-87276.html

[kaizersoze]

It adds an instance, ring war. Fight me, its the same thing.

[loramin]

Seems to me that is so, maybe you just prefer singling me out because I am white and rural because this like the second or third time we have done this little dance.

It's not that I'm singling you out because you're you: I literally did not know/remember that you were white or rural. I did it because you're using a term that makes people feel lesser for who they are ... when English has a ton of other synonyms you could use instead to suggest that something is bad.

And for the record I did the exact same thing to Magna over their use of the word "retard", for the exact same reason: if you're not trying to make people feel worse for how they were born, why use a word that can that effect?

[Snortles Chortles]

i bet you feel pretty silly right now

[Mblake81]

It's not that I'm singling you out because you're you: I literally did not know/remember that you were white or rural. I did it because you're using a term that makes people feel lesser for who they are ... when English has a ton of other synonyms you could use instead to suggest that something is bad.

And for the record I did the exact same thing to Magna over their use of the word "retard", for the exact same reason: if you're not trying to make people feel worse for how they were born, why use a word that can that effect?

Fine. That is you being you, I think. If you like being a bit fruity I am not going to argue with you about your choices. Likewise, if you think I am retarded.. so what.

Walk out into the backyard this evening and the birds are still chirping.

[Ennewi]

Fine. That is you being you, I think. If you like being a bit fruity I am not going to argue with you about your choices. Likewise, if you think I am retarded.. so what.

Walk out into the backyard this evening and the birds are still chirping.

Connor - Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWX_gAosknE)

[Woke Locc]

https://i.imgur.com/yEnILss.png

Memes are a hollow mockery of human thought 😉

[goldlush]

TOFS is pretty much it.

[Snortles Chortles]

TOFS is pretty much it.

CS/IC/KAEL/TOFS is all i really remember TBQH

[Baler]

CS/IC/KAEL/TOFS is all i really remember TBQH

Sorry you didn't get raid loot

[Pootle]

As an avid tradeskiller back in Kurnark, Velious really improved that and made all that plat and time worth while.

[Snortles Chortles]

i was getting laid in my 20s
always been a filthy casual
raiding sucks

[magnetaress]

TOFS is pretty much it.
Yup

As an avid tradeskiller back in Kurnark, Velious really improved that and made all that plat and time worth while.
Definitely true ,great buffs to under played classes with tradeskill gear too. Gear that lasted at least till 55+ in Luclin and PoP

CS/IC/KAEL/TOFS is all i really remember TBQH

Sorry you didn't get raid loot

i was getting laid in my 20s
always been a filthy casual
raiding sucks

[noleriand]

Velious felt like it had to do with Norrath, and its denizens doing things. On Norrath. Killing Norrathian dragons and gods.

Tunare and Rallos Zek were added and their proxies vie for control of the Wakening Lands. The lifecycle of dragons is quite vividly fleshed out, from birth in the nests of the Western Wastes to death in the Dragon Necropolis, and beyond. Fervent worshipers of Brell Serilis still pray for his guidance in the strange frozen land they have come to call home.

Meanwhile, in GM events of the time, the Primordial Malice is attempting to resurrect Lanys T'vyl and reassemble Malevolence, one of Innoruuk's most powerful artifacts. This is so she can cause problems for Firiona Vie - the lady on the literal box of EQ. Innoruuk and Tunare's rivalry appears to be escalating, as evidenced by the corruption of the Lesser Faydark, all in all it appears to be coming to a head soon...

STOP! We're gonna kinda circle back to that, but before that we're going on a quick detour to the moon. So we can 'explain' why the gypsies sell nice (I guess?) weapons and what those things wizards port you to are by making an entire city out of them, but then not finishing it.

Only relevant deity now is Luclin, who we've never heard of and can't worship but who apparently has a bunch of followers who outclass dragons, demigods, and even the gods on their own planes? And... we can't even see her because you didn't finish it?

Nobody cares what race, class, or alignment you are. Except maybe Seru doesn't like dark elves or something? Other than that it may as well be an entire planetoid of agnostics, and every city a Crescent Reach... that isn't finished.

Very little has anything to do with anything from before. The places it connects with Norrathian lore are limited to Shissar from Kunark, Vah Shir from Odus, and Combine as just kind of a homogeneous smattering of everything else. None of that Combine stuff the Monk epic hinted at though! Oh and despite the focus on Combine and how great they are at teleportation and stuff, none of the teleportation spells take you to any structures like that on Luclin except the Nexus!

Meanwhile, on one of the globes in Skyfire Mountains, aspiring cartographers are able to see an island on the far side of the sea. What mysteries lay...

...oh its Taelosia I guess, and it has even less to do with anything than anything else, ever. Guess they pulled a Luclin on us! Again!

And where's that door in Shadowhaven library go?! Don't give me that line about the Netherbian Lair, all that extra crap in 2001 was grinding FPS to a halt in a practically mandatory zone for a throwaway hail about the biggest door we've ever seen going to the least interesting zone ever?

If I'm missing anything, please crack some eggs of Luclin lore knowledge on my head, but I really would have preferred all the effort that went into Luclin's unique and inexplicable creatures be directed at... Norrath, and Norrathian things.

[magnetaress]

Velious felt like it had to do with Norrath, and its denizens doing things. On Norrath. Killing Norrathian dragons and gods.

Tunare and Rallos Zek were added and their proxies vie for control of the Wakening Lands. The lifecycle of dragons is quite vividly fleshed out, from birth in the nests of the Western Wastes to death in the Dragon Necropolis, and beyond. Fervent worshipers of Brell Serilis still pray for his guidance in the strange frozen land they have come to call home.

Meanwhile, in GM events of the time, the Primordial Malice is attempting to resurrect Lanys T'vyl and reassemble Malevolence, one of Innoruuk's most powerful artifacts. This is so she can cause problems for Firiona Vie - the lady on the literal box of EQ. Innoruuk and Tunare's rivalry appears to be escalating, as evidenced by the corruption of the Lesser Faydark, all in all it appears to be coming to a head soon...

STOP! We're gonna kinda circle back to that, but before that we're going on a quick detour to the moon. So we can 'explain' why the gypsies sell nice (I guess?) weapons and what those things wizards port you to are by making an entire city out of them, but then not finishing it.

Only relevant deity now is Luclin, who we've never heard of and can't worship but who apparently has a bunch of followers who outclass dragons, demigods, and even the gods on their own planes? And... we can't even see her because you didn't finish it?

Nobody cares what race, class, or alignment you are. Except maybe Seru doesn't like dark elves or something? Other than that it may as well be an entire planetoid of agnostics, and every city a Crescent Reach... that isn't finished.

Very little has anything to do with anything from before. The places it connects with Norrathian lore are limited to Shissar from Kunark, Vah Shir from Odus, and Combine as just kind of a homogeneous smattering of everything else. None of that Combine stuff the Monk epic hinted at though! Oh and despite the focus on Combine and how great they are at teleportation and stuff, none of the teleportation spells take you to any structures like that on Luclin except the Nexus!

Meanwhile, on one of the globes in Skyfire Mountains, aspiring cartographers are able to see an island on the far side of the sea. What mysteries lay...

...oh its Taelosia I guess, and it has even less to do with anything than anything else, ever. Guess they pulled a Luclin on us! Again!

And where's that door in Shadowhaven library go?! Don't give me that line about the Netherbian Lair, all that extra crap in 2001 was grinding FPS to a halt in a practically mandatory zone for a throwaway hail about the biggest door we've ever seen going to the least interesting zone ever?

If I'm missing anything, please crack some eggs of Luclin lore knowledge on my head, but I really would have preferred all the effort that went into Luclin's unique and inexplicable creatures be directed at... Norrath, and Norrathian things.

it's an optional add on that arguably has better lore than the original norrath and the door in the library was cool i wanted to know about that so much, and the pop addon subsidiezed the luclin addon for those that didn't want to purchase it and made available the crystaline dragons and rathe council raids that supposedly had something to do with norrath?

I think what happened is that Smed and Brad were movin on and starting different projects and expected to produce there, and left EQ in pretty capable at the time, albiet newbish hands, while designers and artists defected to WoW in 2003-4 and the creatives at SoE didn't want to break the original lore of Norrath in a sort of 'out of repsect for the original authors' work way and moved on to different places and times and explored different themes other than:

Dragon bad, giants bad, innoruuk bad, oh, the plane of Time, thats cool, I'll get there eventually.

[magnetaress]

I want to respect ur opinion tho, especially about the Seru and dark elves, shadowhaven, seru, and katta all should have had hard KOS like neriak elfs and good god worshippers, felwith vs darkies, and freeport vs trolls ogres

Shadowhaven clearly has brellish themese who don't like ogres at all, which is a very dwarven quality, where as Katta is definately the good guys lol, and Seru should have been total dicks to evil races.

[magnetaress]

I want to respect ur opinion tho, especially about the Seru and dark elves, shadowhaven, seru, and katta all should have had hard KOS like neriak elfs and good god worshippers, felwith vs darkies, and freeport vs trolls ogres

Shadowhaven clearly has brellish themese who don't like ogres at all, which is a very dwarven quality, where as Katta is definately the good guys lol, and Seru should have been total dicks to evil races.

I think brad probably tried to sell this but it had become a democracy and they caved to pressure to make the games more 'accessible'

[Natewest1987]

To this day, I have trouble understanding luclin. It felt so out of place, and I never followed the i game lore. I just remember it’s reveal and ... seeing cats on the moon and being like wtf

[magnetaress]

To this day, I have trouble understanding luclin. It felt so out of place, and I never followed the i game lore. I just remember it’s reveal and ... seeing cats on the moon and being like wtf

Probably because the 1st zone wasn't a dragon with raid loot and it offered a lot more ways to 'catch up' for the casuals and newer players.

Sorry you didn't get raid.

[Snortles Chortles]

To this day, I have trouble understanding luclin. It felt so out of place, and I never followed the i game lore. I just remember it’s reveal and ... seeing cats on the moon and being like wtf

ding ding, we have a winner
Luclin was shit

[noleriand]

#openthedoor2020 what do the spell vendors know?!

PoP was a return to Norrath but the whole "it was all a dream" ending does a lot to deflate its story. Where's that hidden city of Zebuxoruk the manual hinted at so long ago?

Luclin as an optional add-on tho, I dunno. Between classic and PoP it seems like the least optional expansion, what with mounts changing casting (catch your med tick while casting omg!) and the Bazaar siphoning all commerce to it and free afk intercontinental (technically, interplanetary because that's how silly Luclin is) travel becoming a thing. Probably other stuff too, but that's just off the top of my head. Oh, and AA's! Luclin may have been 33% of the expansions at that point, but I don't think its nuts to say you were missing out on closer to 50% of what was available overall - much higher tier than say, missing out on Warrens.

Oh and about things that Velious adds, I know it turned out to be a lore dead-end until like 2007 but the whole threat of a draconic apocalypse heralded by Kerafyrm was at least kinda interesting! And it fit with a game whose manual has a bunch of dragon lore in it but is a little light on shadow entities.

As much as I rail on it, if I were making my own expansive world I would steal heavily from Luclin, I'd just try to make it feel like a thing that everything else was leading up to, rather than the kind of weird, spectacular tangent it felt like. Set up, pay off and all that jazz.

[noleriand]

I want to respect ur opinion tho, especially about the Seru and dark elves, shadowhaven, seru, and katta all should have had hard KOS like neriak elfs and good god worshippers, felwith vs darkies, and freeport vs trolls ogres

Shadowhaven clearly has brellish themese who don't like ogres at all, which is a very dwarven quality, where as Katta is definately the good guys lol, and Seru should have been total dicks to evil races.

I respect yours btw, just kinda flaming the expansion. Feels like it came really close to brilliance but had just enough wrong with it to be frustrating to me, and its kinda fun to articulate why to other nerds who get it.

Also I guess I gotta rationalize spending so much of my life on Velious-locked servers lol

[magnetaress]

Ur right about the baz, ppl should have been able to broker /trader in base game in other cities. Sorry I don't like sitting online for 50 years brokering and hitting a spam /auction key but otherwise yeah, valid points!

I never had a mount until GoD lol! :( I was a perma newb

[magnetaress]

Also I remember the frame rates dropping to like 1 and crashing a lot in various places due to some wierd chipset bug with the drivers, the game shipped without a work around, and it took them far to long to fix it. EQ is the least technically proficient of all MMOs. it's definately hacked together.

[goldlush]

Velious felt like it had to do with Norrath, and its denizens doing things. On Norrath. Killing Norrathian dragons and gods.

Tunare and Rallos Zek were added and their proxies vie for control of the Wakening Lands. The lifecycle of dragons is quite vividly fleshed out, from birth in the nests of the Western Wastes to death in the Dragon Necropolis, and beyond. Fervent worshipers of Brell Serilis still pray for his guidance in the strange frozen land they have come to call home.

Meanwhile, in GM events of the time, the Primordial Malice is attempting to resurrect Lanys T'vyl and reassemble Malevolence, one of Innoruuk's most powerful artifacts. This is so she can cause problems for Firiona Vie - the lady on the literal box of EQ. Innoruuk and Tunare's rivalry appears to be escalating, as evidenced by the corruption of the Lesser Faydark, all in all it appears to be coming to a head soon...

STOP! We're gonna kinda circle back to that, but before that we're going on a quick detour to the moon. So we can 'explain' why the gypsies sell nice (I guess?) weapons and what those things wizards port you to are by making an entire city out of them, but then not finishing it.

Only relevant deity now is Luclin, who we've never heard of and can't worship but who apparently has a bunch of followers who outclass dragons, demigods, and even the gods on their own planes? And... we can't even see her because you didn't finish it?

Nobody cares what race, class, or alignment you are. Except maybe Seru doesn't like dark elves or something? Other than that it may as well be an entire planetoid of agnostics, and every city a Crescent Reach... that isn't finished.

Very little has anything to do with anything from before. The places it connects with Norrathian lore are limited to Shissar from Kunark, Vah Shir from Odus, and Combine as just kind of a homogeneous smattering of everything else. None of that Combine stuff the Monk epic hinted at though! Oh and despite the focus on Combine and how great they are at teleportation and stuff, none of the teleportation spells take you to any structures like that on Luclin except the Nexus!

Meanwhile, on one of the globes in Skyfire Mountains, aspiring cartographers are able to see an island on the far side of the sea. What mysteries lay...

...oh its Taelosia I guess, and it has even less to do with anything than anything else, ever. Guess they pulled a Luclin on us! Again!

And where's that door in Shadowhaven library go?! Don't give me that line about the Netherbian Lair, all that extra crap in 2001 was grinding FPS to a halt in a practically mandatory zone for a throwaway hail about the biggest door we've ever seen going to the least interesting zone ever?

If I'm missing anything, please crack some eggs of Luclin lore knowledge on my head, but I really would have preferred all the effort that went into Luclin's unique and inexplicable creatures be directed at... Norrath, and Norrathian things.


Can I subscribed to your EQ Lore YouTube channel Mr. Interesting?

[Jimjam]

Ur right about the baz, ppl should have been able to broker /trader in base game in other cities. Sorry I don't like sitting online for 50 years brokering and hitting a spam /auction key but otherwise yeah, valid points!

I never had a mount until GoD lol! :( I was a perma newb

My friends RMTd me a horse.

[Jimjam]

My friends RMTd me a horse.

For my birthday!

[Jimjam]

Also I remember the frame rates dropping to like 1 and crashing a lot in various places due to some wierd chipset bug with the drivers, the game shipped without a work around, and it took them far to long to fix it. EQ is the least technically proficient of all MMOs. it's definately hacked together.

There was a certain arrogance among the devs, that the players were inept whiners, which in fairness to the devs was certainly at least half true in my case.

Complaints that taunt didn't work, that bash didn't work were met with the official policy 'l2p git gud' … of course it later transpired that taunt wasn't working properly after level 50 (for years) and it wasn't till Dragons of Norrath where they revealed 'oh whoops, we thought you weren't using shields on your warriors because you were newbs, but actually we've just realised that bash wasn't generating aggro the same as spell stun which we thought it did' - that was like 5 years into Everquest. And even when these issues were identified, they were never properly fixed 'the meta has adjusted to low aggro shield bash so we'll just add a few more furious bash items'.

There was great vision, and the zone designs were pretty cool, which got carried by exactly the right artist for the project, but honestly the game is a mess.

[magnetaress]

Yep. Lol. I abhor a mess, but I tolerate EQ... >.>

[BlackBellamy]

What does velious actually add?

Mainly it adds a sense of dread as The Senescence drifts over the cold frozen lands, covering everything with a fog that never lifts.

[Baler]

The end of velious added what the end of wrath of the lich king added. Easier gameplay,..

[boukk]

kunark was more tailored towards group experience, velious is more focused on raid content.

[Xulia]

Lots of ice

[sacman08]

*tinfoil* Velious map was on in game art at classic launch!

/agree
Northlands and Frigid Plains were on map and I looked for them. They just got expand and additions to become Velious.

[Baler]

White surfaces for Dynamic Lightning to flash bang our eyes?

[TheSurgeon]

The end of velious added what the end of wrath of the lich king added. Easier gameplay,..

The very first raid in Wrath was a fucking joke. Most of the raids were, and the heroics were only hard on a few fights. What Wrath did right was Arena.

[Baler]

The very first raid in Wrath was a fucking joke. Most of the raids were, and the heroics were only hard on a few fights. What Wrath did right was Arena.

Dont lie, you were wiping on ICC until just before CATA release. :p