Popular Camp Rules On Non Lore Drops

[yuchant]

Hey team,

I've been camping AC, gotten into a few list troubles that have required parsing logs, figuring out who's right etc., oh my god it's stressful.

New question: the camp rules section states you are done camping the mob if you get your drop.

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones,
but this applies to any camp that becomes contested.
If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example)
you are done camping that mob.

Does this apply to non lore desirable items in hugely camped spots like AC in Guk? He drops the Gator Leggings. The past 4 people here have camped it and gotten 2,3 each.

I would do the same - is that legal? If not, how would it even be noticed?

[fadetree]

Did someone contest your camp? Was there someone waiting nearby that could reasonably take over the camp and they had informed you they are waiting? If not, then I think your'e fine. If so...well I dunno about gator legs being that kind of item....I mean they are good legs but they aren't in the same category to me as AC ring and Manastone/Guise are. I guess if you had someone waiting then you should swap out with them just on general principles.

[yuchant]

Did someone contest your camp? Was there someone waiting nearby that could reasonably take over the camp and they had informed you they are waiting? If not, then I think your'e fine. If so...well I dunno about gator legs being that kind of item....I mean they are good legs but they aren't in the same category to me as AC ring and Manastone/Guise are. I guess if you had someone waiting then you should swap out with them just on general principles.

Yeah, there's always a line that spans the day. People camp here like 10 hours minimum. Some last guy did 30.

Everyone camps this spot until they are unable to and grabs as many legs as they can. So... guess it's legit.

[fadetree]

OH yes if other people are grabbing mult legs then screw them. It's a good exp camp too for some levels so it really falls under the traditional camp rules. If you can keep it down, you own it. There's reasons besides the legs to camp there, and it sounds like there is no /list in play, so...no problem.

[yuchant]

OH yes if other people are grabbing mult legs then screw them. It's a good exp camp too for some levels so it really falls under the traditional camp rules. If you can keep it down, you own it. There's reasons besides the legs to camp there, and it sounds like there is no /list in play, so...no problem.

Honestly, it works against me - most people here don't get XP. I get HUGE XP right now from this spawn. The crocs don't aggro so I can take em out super fast and safe.

It does sound like it's like a " is the item valuable enough to warrant 1x per" and the answer is no.

BTW /list is only for 3 items right? Today.

[fadetree]

As far as I know.

[loramin]

It does sound like it's like a " is the item valuable enough to warrant 1x per" and the answer is no.

BTW /list is only for 3 items right? Today.

As far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with value in the "how much does it sell in EC?" sense, and everything to do with value in the "does someone else want the camp?" sense.

If someone else wants the camp and you get the item, you have to give up the camp. Period. You can try and rules lawyer all you want, but the intent of the rules seems 100% clear to me. But those same rules also apply in reverse: you can take the camp back after they get the item.

If this is an issue, you should really pick an XP camp that isn't a desired treasure camp.

[Snortles Chortles]

In Soviet Norrath camp XPs YOU!

[ThonDaMan]

If you get exp, it's your camp regardless if you have a wardrobe full of gator pants. The list mechanic applies to what it's programmed to apply to.

[fadetree]

As far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with value in the "how much does it sell in EC?" sense, and everything to do with value in the "does someone else want the camp?" sense.

If someone else wants the camp and you get the item, you have to give up the camp. Period. You can try and rules lawyer all you want, but the intent of the rules seems 100% clear to me. But those same rules also apply in reverse: you can take the camp back after they get the item.

If this is an issue, you should really pick an XP camp that isn't a desired treasure camp.

I don't think this is right. 'Desired treasure camp'? Isn't all treasure desired by definition? If he's holding it down, he has the camp. What about camps that have multiple drops that might be 'desired'. Which one triggers the 'you have to go now' mechanic? Can I roll up to you and claim that I am camping that silver piece you just got, so you have to leave now? Or the leather boots? Incoming large post from Loramin.

[loramin]

I don't think this is right. 'Desired treasure camp'? Isn't all treasure desired by definition? If he's holding it down, he has the camp. What about camps that have multiple drops that might be 'desired'. Which one triggers the 'you have to go now' mechanic? Can I roll up to you and claim that I am camping that silver piece you just got, so you have to leave now? Or the leather boots? Incoming large post from Loramin.

When has the staff ever cared about the EC price of an item for any ruling they've ever made?

But look, to be clear none of this is in the Play Nice Policies. Camp Rules are not official server rules; they are just things GMs have said in the past. And I say this as the person who wrote the Camp Rules page (and put the giant warning in Red saying as much at the top).

So ultimately, as with anything not explicitly spelled out on the Play Nice Policies, there is no way to know for certain how a GM will decide to rule on it. Literally Menden could decide Bob has to give up the crocodile once he gets his leggings, and Llandris could decide Bob can keep the camp until he feels like leaving. That's how the rules work here.

But if you wanted to guess at what the staff would think, all you have to do is read what Derubael wrote and it seems clear to me (emphasis added):

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

[Verlin]

This has nothing to do with the list mechanic. The rule stated in OPs post is a general rule for all mobs that are camped for a specific item. The rule is made in good faith and is not enforceable seeing as no one would know if you looted the gatorscale leggings or not (unless you are grouped that that is usually unlikely).

I did the AC camped for a few days on and off last month. If there was someone there that wanted the camp for XP, I made a deal with them that they could take all the crocs they wanted as long as they killed them in a timely fashion. I even helped finish them off when getting to low HP. But when the AC spawned, he was mine. I probably spent a total of 40 hours on and off at that camp before getting 1 pair of leggings. I see it unlikely that people are holding down the camp in one sitting for multiple drops.

[loramin]

P.S. One last very important detail that often gets left out of these abstract rules discussions: none of this matters unless you communicate. You have to say "Hi Bob, I see you are camping the AC, and I'd like to camp him once you get your leggings. Could you please let me know once you do, so I can come take the camp from you?"

It's only if you then suspect that Bob has gotten two pairs of leggings and you then /petition that there's even a chance of Bob being forced to give up the camp. We don't even get to have the "WWGMD" (what would the GMs do?) conversation until that point.

But at the same time, I honestly think that with 95+% of the players on this server, if you say "I really want some croc leggings, can I get some after you", they will just give you the camp and GMs will never get involved.

I did the AC camped for a few days on and off last month. If there was someone there that wanted the camp for XP, I made a deal with them that they could take all the crocs they wanted as long as they killed them in a timely fashion. I even helped finish them off when getting to low HP. But when the AC spawned, he was mine. I probably spent a total of 40 hours on and off at that camp before getting 1 pair of leggings. I see it unlikely that people are holding down the camp in one sitting for multiple drops.

This is exactly the kind of solution that should happen, and that I'm sure it's what the staff would prefer to see.

[Snortles Chortles]

hey there elf legally camping something
here’s a few forum novels on why you should give the camp to me

**don’t forget to read my elf dissertation wiki, thankS!

[cd288]

I would guess that this “ruling” would be applied only to the extremely popular big ticket item camps like the AC. I don’t think it would be applied to your average loot drop even if it’s somewhat valuable (like the leggings). JBoots are one of the most desired items on the server so you’re just trying to prevent a guild or group of individuals from basically controlling that camp and using it to price gouge MQs etc.; you’re not really worried about that with your average piece of gear.

[yuchant]

Guys this has been hugely informative.. Thank you!

I now believe that if there's huge demand for this gator scale legging, which there is, the list is long, one guy capmned 30 hours, 1 guy 11 got 2, 1 guy 6 got 2, one guy ? got 3.

If you get your item, and people are dying to get it behind you, you should give it up. Just cuz it's not lore, doesn't mean the rules don't apply about solo camping "the item you're looking for".

I might bring that up next time I'm here and someone's been here forever. Because I felt bad for some guys I see who have clearly been trying to get camp forever.

[yuchant]

Guys this has been hugely informative.. Thank you!

I now believe that if there's huge demand for this gator scale legging, which there is, the list is long, one guy capmned 30 hours, 1 guy 11 got 2, 1 guy 6 got 2, one guy ? got 3.

If you get your item, and people are dying to get it behind you, you should give it up. Just cuz it's not lore, doesn't mean the rules don't apply about solo camping "the item you're looking for". Sound right? Play nice?

Devils advocate: maybe you waited 30 hours to get this camp, cuz the guy before you (true story, RIP) didn't get any for a day. Should you deserveeee a few more ?? lol.


I might bring that up next time I'm here and someone's been here forever. Because I felt bad for some guys I see who have clearly been trying to get camp forever.

[cd288]

Guys this has been hugely informative.. Thank you!

I now believe that if there's huge demand for this gator scale legging, which there is, the list is long, one guy capmned 30 hours, 1 guy 11 got 2, 1 guy 6 got 2, one guy ? got 3.

If you get your item, and people are dying to get it behind you, you should give it up. Just cuz it's not lore, doesn't mean the rules don't apply about solo camping "the item you're looking for".

I might bring that up next time I'm here and someone's been here forever. Because I felt bad for some guys I see who have clearly been trying to get camp forever.

Honestly if you're camping those leggings for over 30 hours you could probably farm enough plat to buy them in EC in less than that time.

[Jimjam]

That gatorscale leggings camp is rough, and you always end up with a bunch of unwanted sleeves. But have you tried camping the gatorscale tunic? It's so rare, I am not sure if it is ever gonna drop, but I will keep looting gatorscale leggings and sleeves until I get my tunic!

[jerryR]

Took me forever to get my legs on that camp. I find it unlikely someone is coming out with 3 legs tbh. Knowing how rare it is and how many people are generally on list, pretty dick move to continue on once you got it .. knowing it might be 8 hours of sleeves to see another leggings drop.... Who knows though.

[loramin]

I would guess that this “ruling” would be applied only to the extremely popular big ticket item camps like the AC.

I'm just a player, but ... in the entire time I've played here I've never even heard of a GM ruling based on an item's popularity or EC price. To the contrary, whenever it comes to adjudication the staff has always treated the level 20 guy trying to get some item worth 20 plat identically to two level 60s fighting over a Throne mob in PoM. They very much do seem to want the same rules to apply to everyone, regardless of how important (or not) those players might feel they are.

That gatorscale leggings camp is rough, and you always end up with a bunch of unwanted sleeves. But have you tried camping the gatorscale tunic? It's so rare, I am not sure if it is ever gonna drop, but I will keep looting gatorscale leggings and sleeves until I get my tunic!

LOL keep trying Jimjam! :D

[cd288]

I mean, that comment in the camp section has to come from somewhere so it has to have happened before. Just inconsistently applied in terms of whether staff would apply it

[loramin]

I mean, that comment in the camp section has to come from somewhere so it has to have happened before. Just inconsistently applied in terms of whether staff would apply it

It came from a dispute regarding OOT AC (Ancient Cyclops). As with any camp ruling, we players can try and extrapolate larger conclusions from it ... but there's no way to know for sure those extrapolations are correct (even though Derubael seemingly said as much) until someone actually /petitions over the other AC (Ancient Crocodile).

And even then, the ruling could change between GMS :) I think "inconsistently applied" is something the staff themselves would agree with you on ... but they see it as a feature not a bug.

To issue perfectly consistent rulings all the time they'd need to use (and maintain) a giant "book of rulings". That would be asking even more of our already overworked (and 100% volunteer) staff, so having inconsistent rulings ... but more volunteer time dedicated to helping us ... seems like the better option.

[Snortles Chortles]

Loramin tells you, Hey!! I see you looted a cracked staff from that decaying skeleton, so please move along away from the camp because I’m entitled to a cracked staff now and you remaining here is problematic to my elf XP needs.

[loramin]

Loramin tells you, Hey!! I see you looted a cracked staff from that decaying skeleton, so please move along away from the camp because I’m entitled to a cracked staff now and you remaining here is problematic to my elf XP needs.

The camp rules are not meant to decide every interaction on the server; they're meant to resolve disputes. Everyone else in this thread except you seems to understand that ... what does that say about you?

[Snortles Chortles]

You’re advocating for players losing camps they legally own. I disagree with your sentiment.

[loramin]

You’re advocating for players losing camps they legally own. I disagree with your sentiment.

No, I'm explaining the system (that the volunteer staff themselves created) for resolving camp disputes.

If you're an asshole who feels the need to create a dispute over a decaying skeleton drop that's on you: don't try to pin it on me, or as some kind of problem with the staff's rules.

And also, as I keep trying to emphasize, NONE OF THIS IS SET IN STONE (except the PnP). Just try petitioning about your decaying skeleton, and see what the staff member decides when they show up. I'm guessing they will not be amused at you wasting their time.

[drackgon]

Rules are rules, if someone gets the item they farmed. And another player is there and contesting. The contesting player gets it. This is why when you get to a camp, ask for the list SS it. So if their some horrid bad troll, who tries to change said list 6 hours later. You have proof. Congrats camp is yours. Enjoy your adventure

P.S. to Snortles, I believe the rules is for any special camp, IE if it drops an item unique to it or a hand few of mobs. Not something that is common drop shared between 100 of mobs. Btw Snortles did you get banned and make a new account(I remember you pre green as fellow SK talks alot.)

[Snortles Chortles]

What’s the point of farming named mobs, if elves can be strong armed into losing the camp because it’s random MuHHHh Gatorlegs turn!!!?

**l Put the SK on the shelf to play NEC with my friend.

[Gridley]

Ya, I dunno how I feel about this rule applying to ALL camps. I see no realistic way to enforce in non-lore camps without completely wasting the staff's time.

But for LORE item camps, I can totally get onboard with it as long as the "no corpse storing the item to thus continue camping" part. Otherwise, if one were to try to apply this to non-lore item camps such as the ancient croc, I can only foresee lots of mistrust and /petition thinking someone is lying when they claim they haven't got any "gatorscale legs yet" after 12 hours, which is a real possibility.

[turbosilk]

Easy fix in the spirit of the classic experience. People at a camp need to make room and share the camp worth people until the group fills up. Then people can list to join the group when spots open up.

[BlackBellamy]

What’s the point of farming named mobs, if elves can be strong armed into losing the camp because it’s random MuHHHh Gatorlegs turn!!!?

**l Put the SK on the shelf to play NEC with my friend.

Lol so right. So first of all, if the item isn't no drop, I feel for you but you can just buy it. Anyone can farm bone chips or ice giant toes for money. If I'm camping the TBB for example, my camp is done when I say it's done, whether it's because I'm going offline or have no more room in my backpacks. I need five belts so I can sell them and buy an FBSS, which is totally my business and also legit.

[loramin]

This thread:

https://i.imgur.com/0xdjaWE.gif

Guys, it was a quote from a GM who doesn't even volunteer here anymore, on a page with giant red letters at the top saying "not in any way official or endorsed by Project 1999 staff, and comes with no guarantees".

But at the same time, this is not your server. You have absolutely no inherent right to sit anywhere and camp any mob for any extended period of time. Whether you're farming PoM Thrones or bone chips it doesn't matter: if there is a scarce resource, and two people are competing for it, the staff is going to make them share.

You can elf lawyer the details of that sharing in a forum thread all you want, but it won't change the core fact that it's the staff's server, not your's, and the staff wants people to share.

[Canelek]

For once I agree with Lulz. You can't just roll all camps into the same player-agreement/player-held list camps like Ancient Cyclops. If somebody wants to hold a camp like croc, Ass/Sup, or whatever, they have every right to do so. While that is unfortunate for those that want to do the same thing, that is too bad--welcome to EQ.

The entire game-aspect point of EQ is to collect crap to sell and then acquire more crap to give to your alts so they can blast their way back to the same damn camp and do it all again. Expecting someone to give up their camp just because someone else wants it is silly. That is like some PUG jackass declaring NBG on a FBSS or T-Staff.

Suck it up and move on. If you want that trivial camp bad enough, camp out, play an alt and wait for that person to leave.

Sheesh.

[jerryR]

Easy fix in the spirit of the classic experience. People at a camp need to make room and share the camp worth people until the group fills up. Then people can list to join the group when spots open up.

As per article 45.75 section c6 - I know I've caused you nothing but headaches in the past by constantly messaging you asking when you're gonna be done or petitioning this camp for no reason - but now you must invite me to your group. Thanks!! See you again when it drops and I ninja it

[drackgon]

Canelek Lore items can only be looted once per toon(unless they corpse it, or have friend run down and loot). By p99 rules though your more then allowed to camp items until you get it. But by p99 rules if someone wants said camp and you got item already, they can petition you 2 leave(As long as there isnt a for sure list). You may not agree with it. But its how admins wanted it. Its their server.

[cd288]

Easy fix in the spirit of the classic experience. People at a camp need to make room and share the camp worth people until the group fills up. Then people can list to join the group when spots open up.

Bad idea. I too get somewhat annoyed when I'm LFG and people don't want to add more people to their group, but forcing them to do so is dumb and would only create an endless stream of petitions.

[Canelek]

Canelek Lore items can only be looted once per toon(unless they corpse it, or have friend run down and loot). By p99 rules though your more then allowed to camp items until you get it. But by p99 rules if someone wants said camp and you got item already, they can petition you 2 leave(As long as there isnt a for sure list). You may not agree with it. But its how admins wanted it. Its their server.

Lore items, absolutely. I agree that the camp should pass on to the next person, whether it is the choice of original camper or player-agreed list. Corpsing should always be disallowed (re: fungi, AC ring).

I was referring to non-lore item camps like Gatorscale Leggings and TBB.

[Snortles Chortles]

inb4 Loramin forum dunked by senior elven mgmt (again)

[Jimjam]

For once I agree with Lulz. You can't just roll all camps into the same player-agreement/player-held list camps like Ancient Cyclops. If somebody wants to hold a camp like croc, Ass/Sup, or whatever, they have every right to do so. While that is unfortunate for those that want to do the same thing, that is too bad--welcome to EQ.

The entire game-aspect point of EQ is to collect crap to sell and then acquire more crap to give to your alts so they can blast their way back to the same damn camp and do it all again. Expecting someone to give up their camp just because someone else wants it is silly. That is like some PUG jackass declaring NBG on a FBSS or T-Staff.

Suck it up and move on. If you want that trivial camp bad enough, camp out, play an alt and wait for that person to leave.

Sheesh.
Nah, the game is about creating personas, then exploring those personas' character by putting them into different situations.

[Toehammer]

Rules are rules, if someone gets the item they farmed. And another player is there and contesting. The contesting player gets it. This is why when you get to a camp, ask for the list SS it. So if their some horrid bad troll, who tries to change said list 6 hours later. You have proof. Congrats camp is yours. Enjoy your adventure

P.S. to Snortles, I believe the rules is for any special camp, IE if it drops an item unique to it or a hand few of mobs. Not something that is common drop shared between 100 of mobs. Btw Snortles did you get banned and make a new account(I remember you pre green as fellow SK talks alot.)

Canelek Lore items can only be looted once per toon(unless they corpse it, or have friend run down and loot). By p99 rules though your more then allowed to camp items until you get it. But by p99 rules if someone wants said camp and you got item already, they can petition you 2 leave(As long as there isnt a for sure list). You may not agree with it. But its how admins wanted it. Its their server.

Although I hate those obnoxious YouTube ads, this guy "needs to get grammarly"... I ticked so much reading this I now have Tourette's.

[loramin]

inb4 Loramin forum dunked by senior elven mgmt (again)

I assume you mean that time when I said "Nilbog deliberately sets unclassic ZEMs to maintain classic mystery", and then Nilbog replied with "Source?" ... and then a couple months later (despite Dolalain filing the actual/classic ZEMS) Nilbog changed all the ZEMS on the server to new unclassic ZEMs that maintain classic mystery?

Yeah, I was sure "dunked" on then :rolleyes:

[drackgon]

LoL won't deny my grammer sucks, bc its online. Why worry about grammer.

[Snortles Chortles]

Yeah, I was sure "dunked" on

[Toehammer]

LoL won't deny my grammer sucks, bc its online. Why worry about grammer.

I don't actually care... but the sheer volume of errors almost sent me into a seizure. :)

[Bigsham]

Grammarly made me get youtube adblock from chrome

[pirate23]

As far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with value in the "how much does it sell in EC?" sense, and everything to do with value in the "does someone else want the camp?" sense.

If someone else wants the camp and you get the item, you have to give up the camp. Period. You can try and rules lawyer all you want, but the intent of the rules seems 100% clear to me. But those same rules also apply in reverse: you can take the camp back after they get the item.

If this is an issue, you should really pick an XP camp that isn't a desired treasure camp.

How do you know they got legs? Just because the named spawns doesn't mean he dropped them. ancient croc you stay as long as you want. AC spawns he auto has the ring, you leave.

[loramin]

How do you know they got legs? Just because the named spawns doesn't mean he dropped them. ancient croc you stay as long as you want. AC spawns he auto has the ring, you leave.

Of course. As a result, you couldn't practically /petition to complain unless someone has been there a really long time, and then a GM could decide how to handle it.

It's like I keep saying: the rules here exist to handle legitimate disputes between players ... not give forum elf lawyers reasons to do crazy things. If Bob has had (Guk) AC camp for an hour, and you want the camp ... well, too bad.

You can /petition after an hour, but the it's unlikely the GM is going to give you the camp. But if you've seen Bob sit there for eight hours at the camp? Sixteen? At some point the GM is likely to come back to the basic principle I keep repeating.

That principle is that this is a free server that everyone gets to play on out of the generosity of the staff. You have absolutely no "rights" to anything on that server, and to the contrary the same people who made the server also want its players to not be total selfish assholes, and instead to share scarce resources on the server.

As for what the exact magic number is for "how long is too long to hold AC camp"? That's not spelled out in any "book of rulings", so it's 100% up to the GM that responds to the /petition. And again:

To issue perfectly consistent rulings all the time they'd need to use (and maintain) a giant "book of rulings". That would be asking even more of our already overworked (and 100% volunteer) staff, so having inconsistent rulings ... but more volunteer time dedicated to helping us ... seems like the better option.

[cd288]

Of course. As a result, you couldn't practically /petition to complain unless someone has been there a really long time, and then a GM could decide how to handle it.

It's like I keep saying: the rules here exist to handle legitimate disputes between players ... not give forum elf lawyers reasons to do crazy things. If Bob has had (Guk) AC camp for an hour, and you want the camp ... well, too bad.

You can /petition after an hour, but the it's unlikely the GM is going to give you the camp. But if you've seen Bob sit there for eight hours at the camp? Sixteen? At some point the GM is likely to come back to the basic principle I keep repeating.

That principle is that this is a free server that everyone gets to play on out of the generosity of the staff. You have absolutely no "rights" to anything on that server, and to the contrary the same people who made the server also want its players to not be total selfish assholes, and instead to share scarce resources on the server.

As for what the exact magic number is for "how long is too long to hold AC camp"? That's not spelled out in any "book of rulings", so it's 100% up to the GM that responds to the /petition. And again:

True but this sounds like a rule the GMs would have no interest in seeing as it would simply create more disputes and work for them. People would be petitioning that someone would have been there too long, then they’d have to go check the logs for the past several hours, and I bet a decent amount of the time the item won’t have dropped so it would have been a moot petition. Current system is better. If they’re there, they have the camp. Simple.

[loramin]

Current system is better.

You're clearly confused: there is no "current system" (vs. anything). Derubael's comment (the one that this whole entire thread is about) is not some new change to the rules ... it's a quote from 2014!

There's no "new and old" systems, but what I think is confusing you is that there is a "fantasy system that exists only in the minds of forum elf lawyers" vs. "what the GMs actually do in the game". The "current system" (of the GMs abiding by the PnP, but otherwise doing what they feel is best in-game) has been the exact same since even before 2014.

[Snortles Chortles]

Why are you giving credence to anything Derubael said? I wasn’t aware a banned GM’s rulings account for anything in 2020.

[loramin]

Why are you giving credence to anything Derubael said? I wasn’t aware a banned GM’s rulings account for anything in 2020.

GM Derubael was a great GM, who also was a flawed individual who made a major mistake that betrayed the community. But making a mistake does not invalidate all the GMing he did for years prior: if he'd been doing a bad job of that, Rogean would have yanked him much sooner.

Regardless, y'all are in "fixate on isolated GM quotes" elf lawyer mode, and it's making you miss the forest from the trees. THE CAMP RULES PAGE IS NOT A RULES PAGE ... and I say that as the person who compiled that page! All that it is is a guide to help suggest how the staff will handle things (ie. it's as close to a "rules page" as we'll get beyond the Play Nice Policies), but the staff very much does not want the players to know the exact rules ... because the staff doesn't want "exact rules" to even exist in the first place. The Play Nice Policies is a vague document BY DESIGN!

/em deep breath

Until you accept that core premise of the rules system here, you will never "grok" the P99 rules.

[Snortles Chortles]

Swiftly fired GM who unjustly banned players and stripped their accounts of gear and then RMTd the stripped gear

Thinking any ruling this former GM ever said is valid in any argument

https://i.imgur.com/LAFmUDU.gif

**inb4 another forum novella

[cd288]

You're clearly confused: there is no "current system" (vs. anything). Derubael's comment (the one that this whole entire thread is about) is not some new change to the rules ... it's a quote from 2014!

There's no "new and old" systems, but what I think is confusing you is that there is a "fantasy system that exists only in the minds of forum elf lawyers" vs. "what the GMs actually do in the game". The "current system" (of the GMs abiding by the PnP, but otherwise doing what they feel is best in-game) has been the exact same since even before 2014.

I think you’re pretty confused. I never said there was any other system. I was saying how it’s been done (and is still done - hence the word “currently”) is better than this discussion about having people have to leave a camp of a piece of gear drops

[cd288]

Swiftly fired GM who unjustly banned players and stripped their accounts of gear and then RMTd the stripped gear

Thinking any ruling this former GM ever said is valid in any argument

https://i.imgur.com/LAFmUDU.gif

**inb4 another forum novella

Don’t often agree with Snortles but have to on this one

[loramin]

Well, like I keep saying, we won't know until someone petitions and reports back what a GM actually does in the game.

So let's try a simple experiment cd288 and Chortles: one of you go ahead and lock the AC camp down for 16 hours, and the other waits there patiently for 16 hours and then /petitions.

Report back whether the GM let's the person who's been sitting there for 16 hours continue to do so.

[Canelek]

The elf-litigation in this thread is getting weird.

[Snortles Chortles]

Well, like I keep saying, we won't know until someone petitions and reports back what a GM actually does in the game.

So let's try a simple experiment cd288 and Chortles: one of you go ahead and lock the AC camp down for 16 hours, and the other waits there patiently for 16 hours and then /petitions.

Report back whether the GM let's the person who's been sitting there for 16 hours continue to do so.

https://i.imgur.com/osQJd1q.png

[Phraxas]

does anyone know why they make some items lore and others not?? so lore rings, earrings, bracers make sense cause you have 2 slots for them but they dont want u to have multiples but what about items like Hooded Black Cloak, its bout the same price as gatorscale leggings, you can only wear 1 back slot, why is that item lore??

the reason im asking is the answer to this question to me is the answer to this thread... game intended for some items to be a 1 and done camp/collection with Lore being attached. so any manipulation of the rule ie corpsing the item or handing it off to a friend so you can continue would be the reason of the "rule" one and done.

but in this camp, neither the gator sleeves nor the gator legs are lore, so the idea of you got your item your done, imo doesnt apply because the game allows me to continue after getting either item.

or am i just viewing it all wrong??

[cd288]

Well, like I keep saying, we won't know until someone petitions and reports back what a GM actually does in the game.

So let's try a simple experiment cd288 and Chortles: one of you go ahead and lock the AC camp down for 16 hours, and the other waits there patiently for 16 hours and then /petitions.

Report back whether the GM let's the person who's been sitting there for 16 hours continue to do so.

Again, I think you're confused. I never said there would be some unusual ruling. I was saying our current system is better than any hypothetical system that involves someone having to move after getting the item.

Do you just look for things to debate? You're basically debating with someone who agrees with you lol

[cd288]

does anyone know why they make some items lore and others not?? so lore rings, earrings, bracers make sense cause you have 2 slots for them but they dont want u to have multiples but what about items like Hooded Black Cloak, its bout the same price as gatorscale leggings, you can only wear 1 back slot, why is that item lore??

the reason im asking is the answer to this question to me is the answer to this thread... game intended for some items to be a 1 and done camp/collection with Lore being attached. so any manipulation of the rule ie corpsing the item or handing it off to a friend so you can continue would be the reason of the "rule" one and done.

but in this camp, neither the gator sleeves nor the gator legs are lore, so the idea of you got your item your done, imo doesnt apply because the game allows me to continue after getting either item.

or am i just viewing it all wrong??

I mean, you're probably not wrong. But corpsing existed back in classic and wasn't against the rules. Think about it, if you want to corpse something you are dying and losing EXP; a lot of the time you're at a level where that EXP is going to take a long time to get back. So it's not like you're not harming yourself in some way by corpsing.

[Jimjam]

Iirc the lore flag was added into the game as a reaction against people monopolising camps of specific desirable items.