FD nerf

[umpf2010]

Umpf sadfacewithtears for FD nerf, no more easy ride! send me a pm rogean for bribe negotiations...

Is the fail probability same as classic? anyone have any info on this? patch message was vague imo...

[Zordana]

i thought if you had somethin attackin you, it had a chance to not work, but if you werent engaged, it was 100% .. tho 10 years is a loong time and alzheimer is a bish ;)

[dannym3141]

FD used to work like this in classic classic:

falls to the ground = fail.
feign death whilst auto attacking = fail (but no fall to ground message shown)
feign death with auto attack off = success (if no fall to ground message)

I believe part way into kunark this was confirmed as a bug and changed so that feign death only ever failed if "fall to ground" was shown.

Spell hits after you feign are slightly different - the feign still works, but if any spell affects you whilst you're successfully feigned, it'll effectively stand up back up again (but you have to stand up manually). If you resist, the feign succeeds.

The only difference i've noticed on p1999 between live and after the "bug fix" is that as soon as you feign your aggro list is entirely and instantly wiped, you can stand up immediately (as long as you're not in aggro range/LOS) and you will not get any aggro again. In fact, you may remember that when "fading memories" bard skill came in, bards became popular pullers in certain circumstances because, unlike monks, they could wipe their aggro list once every... 72 mins? Whatever it was. Basically monks have a 6 second cooldown fading memories atm on p1999.

That's not exactly how it was in live. In live, feign had a chance of wiping your aggro but also a chance of keeping you on their aggro list. This could be used as a tool, it could also be annoying as sometimes you'd have to feign and /q and log back in so that you'd be wiped off the aggro list for definite. This is why sometimes bards were used. Very very very fast, instant aggro wipe, you didn't have to wait for FD and /q.

Probably been said before, but if not, there it is!

[guineapig]

Well there is absolutely nothing I can add to that... um... Capital K in Kunark... :p


Seriously though, good post!

[NotInventedHere]

In regards to monk feign death mechanics;
The way it currently works is the way it was originally. At some point, perhaps around Kunark era, they nerfed FD mechanics so that mobs over level 35 have a chance to remember you once you stand up from a feign. The percent chance for a mem wipe of the aggroed mobs on a FD was somewhere around 80% for static spawns and 20% for wandering spawns. Also, after a certain amount of time staying feigned(maybe 2 minutes?) you would have all aggro cleared on standing.

Edit: It may be that FD always was like that for level 35 and over mobs, since come to think of it, I was about level 30 or so on my monk when Kunark came out, so I never fought any mobs that level until then.

[siinge]

FD used to work like this in classic classic:

falls to the ground = fail.
feign death whilst auto attacking = fail (but no fall to ground message shown)
feign death with auto attack off = success (if no fall to ground message)

I believe part way into kunark this was confirmed as a bug and changed so that feign death only ever failed if "fall to ground" was shown.

Spell hits after you feign are slightly different - the feign still works, but if any spell affects you whilst you're successfully feigned, it'll effectively stand up back up again (but you have to stand up manually). If you resist, the feign succeeds.

The only difference i've noticed on p1999 between live and after the "bug fix" is that as soon as you feign your aggro list is entirely and instantly wiped, you can stand up immediately (as long as you're not in aggro range/LOS) and you will not get any aggro again. In fact, you may remember that when "fading memories" bard skill came in, bards became popular pullers in certain circumstances because, unlike monks, they could wipe their aggro list once every... 72 mins? Whatever it was. Basically monks have a 6 second cooldown fading memories atm on p1999.

That's not exactly how it was in live. In live, feign had a chance of wiping your aggro but also a chance of keeping you on their aggro list. This could be used as a tool, it could also be annoying as sometimes you'd have to feign and /q and log back in so that you'd be wiped off the aggro list for definite. This is why sometimes bards were used. Very very very fast, instant aggro wipe, you didn't have to wait for FD and /q.

Probably been said before, but if not, there it is!

Negative in classic fd would wipe aggro 100%, and if you had a dot on the mob it would start the aggro list all over again. Here is my proof.

So many people with "i think so therefore it must be right" Post proof or dont post at all. Im tired of speculations of what you remember from 10 years ago, having a possible impact in future changes. The Gms have alot on there hands. They can't do the research when there are more important things in line. If 10 people say its so then is it so? no.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=366

Also
Posted: Sep 19th 2003 2:30am | IP: Logged | Reply to this
Saurom

156 posts
Score: Decent
I've noticed that while in groups feigning death kills agro instantly on spells that generate immediately. This includes nukes, mez, slow, resist debuff, group taps ETC. This does not include any Damage over time spells. If you feign successfully and have so many dot spells on a mob that when you stand up and the next tick goes off it attacks you. You are WAY over dotting and it will continue to agro you until the other party members can taunt it off you.

For instance I was the parties ghetto mezzer and ghetto slower in a MMC group, I would get agro like nuts from both slowing and mezzing, after they had killed a mob and was about to move to the next I would feign death and as soon as they started fighting I would stand back up and almost completely agroless even though I had mezzed the mob maybe 3 times and slowed it's attacks. Feigning is a great way to charm kite correctly as well.

If your around level 52 waste the time to get your LoY feign, it barely ever fails and will get your abjuration maxed for death peace. Using hte level 16 feign and the 52 feign is a world of difference as far as fail rate goes.

[NotInventedHere]

Here is a guide to monk FD from an archived version of Monkly-Business circa November 2000.
http://web.archive.org/web/20001210014000/www.monkly-business.com/skills/fd.html

[umpf2010]

I am not arguing the failing chance patch, however the fail while attacking is just unnecessary and kind of like recreating a bug.

It was a mistake that was corrected later on. Not everything "Classic" was as intended.

It's easily solved of course by creating a button (/attack off /cast #), but in the future perhaps one should ask themselves if the adjustment to the spell or skill makes sense, or is just a waste of time.

Anyway, back to waiting for log server to work :/

[Loke]

To my knowledge (played a monk from classic until mid-luclin), NotInvitedHere has it right.

[Bayleo]

I have to agree with Umpf. I still have an item database on my small sewing kit (very very very not classic), and yet we're patching to put confirmed bugs BACK into the game?

PS. I think the discussion about the "remembrance mechanic" upon standing has ties to the message you get while on the ground for an extended period: "Your enemies have forgotten about you".

[Haynar]

Spell based FD was overpowered. It was 100% successful. This was not classic, so changes were made to replicate more what classic was like.

Don't forget to turn off attack now. If you cannot remember, do like the rest of us old schoolers did. Always after FD, you /con to see if your target is indifferent.

Yes, they said at some point that FD failing while attack was on was a bug. They never said it was a bug early on though. But it was a bug they left in for 4 years, before fixing. So is that a bug or just an undocumented feature?

Basically we always got the "working as intended" response when complaining about FD mechanics in the first couple of years.

Haynar

[LazyFuj]

always wondered why feign would never fail.

[siinge]

Spell based FD was overpowered. It was 100% successful. This was not classic, so changes were made to replicate more what classic was like.

Don't forget to turn off attack now. If you cannot remember, do like the rest of us old schoolers did. Always after FD, you /con to see if your target is indifferent.

Yes, they said at some point that FD failing while attack was on was a bug. They never said it was a bug early on though. But it was a bug they left in for 4 years, before fixing. So is that a bug or just an undocumented feature?

Basically we always got the "working as intended" response when complaining about FD mechanics in the first couple of years.

Haynar

some things that were classic was how pets reacted to certain weapons, giving a pre 20 pet a 2 h weapon would increased the dmg output. It dosen't here. x2 fine steel daggers have a 19 delay and would effect the pets attack speed. Wich was in classic till the release of kunark. It is not present on this classic server. So necro and mage pets are not in line with classic.

Some things in some things out. Obviously its not my server and i dont like it i can leave i get that. But i think fixing classic "bugs" the ones that are not benifical to a player and leaving out the classic bugs that are. Kinda suck. Fd on classic the spell line was 100% successful in classic. Im disapointed that its removed now. It didn't fail till kunark. Even if i post supporting evidence apparently its up to the developers discresion on what he would believe classic should be like. Not like what it was.

[yaaaflow]

If you have a problem with a particular thing then make a post specifically about it ffs. If you want the pets not using the damage/delay of weapons given to them, make a post about it in the bugs forum with supporting evidence. If you think the change they have made to fd is wrong, then post some evidence about it in the appropriate thread.

[dannym3141]

Negative in classic fd would wipe aggro 100%, and if you had a dot on the mob it would start the aggro list all over again. Here is my proof.

So many people with "i think so therefore it must be right" Post proof or dont post at all. Im tired of speculations of what you remember from 10 years ago, having a possible impact in future changes. The Gms have alot on there hands. They can't do the research when there are more important things in line. If 10 people say its so then is it so? no.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=366

Here you are speaking about the spell feign death which i have no experience over. I was of course talking about monk feign death. I had hoped that was obvious from certain aspects of my post but obviously not. I cannot speak for the spell feign death, i don't see WHY it would be different, but i accept that it may.

This is incorrect for monk FD. And for the record, no one can provide proof unless you actually go and find a video of someone doing it from 1999, several times, investigating all the possible discrepancies.

I am absolutely correct on mobs having a chance of regaining aggro on the monk after he stood up. Take it or leave it, that is the truth. I don't mind, it makes feigning FAR easier on this server. The only caveat i will add to my original statement is that, POSSIBLY, when a mob reached its spawn point again, the aggro WAS wiped. The re-gaining aggro thing only occured if you had pulled a mob and it had not completely pathed back to where it came from.

Anyone who has had a hell of a lot of experience pulling in true classic will tell you this. Why else do you think monks had to /q out of game? Simply because, if you ran to your raid without making 100% sure you were out of aggro - either by standing, waiting and observing you had no mobs on you, or /qing out of game, you COULD train your raid.

"Monks /q out please, don't want to wipe rezzers" -- no one else remembers this? There's not a lot more i can say to you on this topic, Legend. I am definitely right.. even if every other person in the world disagreed with me, i'd still know i was right, i remember doing it FAR too much :(

I agree with you Haynar. Imho, the 'auto attack bug' was a poor monk's excuse for not understanding feign correctly. I am sure you remember that mobs had a chance to re-aggro you, if you played a lot of monk and remember the auto attack thing.

Edit: And the monkly business post confirms what i said.

[Haynar]

In the very very beginning, FD was a 100% aggro wipe instantly, that is why it is currently like that. So I would expect it to change here before long too. I don't know when it will change though. Enjoy it while it lasts.

It wont be long, and we FD classes will all be /q out again, like we had to before.

Haynar

[dannym3141]

Thanks for clearing that up, haynar. I started playing almost immediately after the guise was taken out (my friend was in a high level guild and informed me) and by the time i hit level 17, feign was re-aggroing. I guess we can expect it soon.

[siinge]

In the very very beginning, FD was a 100% aggro wipe instantly, that is why it is currently like that. So I would expect it to change here before long too. I don't know when it will change though. Enjoy it while it lasts.

It wont be long, and we FD classes will all be /q out again, like we had to before.

Haynar

i postd a link to a post made in 2003 when fd on live was wiping aggro 100% for the spell, the guy that made the post was lvl 52 so this was AFTER kunark... nothings being done even when i just posted proof, its not like the posts here, where its "i think it was like this in classic" that was 10 years ago so i found a post on alakazam of 2003 someone in kunark talking about how its wiping aggro 100%.

ffs seriously i posted it 3 posts up are you that blind?

[siinge]

Also
Posted: Sep 19th 2003 2:30am | IP: Logged | Reply to this
Saurom

156 posts
Score: Decent
I've noticed that while in groups feigning death kills agro instantly on spells that generate immediately. This includes nukes, mez, slow, resist debuff, group taps ETC. This does not include any Damage over time spells. If you feign successfully and have so many dot spells on a mob that when you stand up and the next tick goes off it attacks you. You are WAY over dotting and it will continue to agro you until the other party members can taunt it off you.

For instance I was the parties ghetto mezzer and ghetto slower in a MMC group, I would get agro like nuts from both slowing and mezzing, after they had killed a mob and was about to move to the next I would feign death and as soon as they started fighting I would stand back up and almost completely agroless even though I had mezzed the mob maybe 3 times and slowed it's attacks. Feigning is a great way to charm kite correctly as well.

If your around level 52 waste the time to get your LoY feign, it barely ever fails and will get your abjuration maxed for death peace. Using hte level 16 feign and the 52 feign is a world of difference as far as fail rate goes.
----------------------------
54 Cleric - Daagen
65 Bard - Sellow
65 Necro - Saurom
58 Enchanter - Sraphim

shit makes me rage people are that dumb and keep trying to "remember" what stuff was like 10 years ago... most of you can't remember what you did a week ago.. and changes are being based on this. Not supported proof. Ive already made multiple proof about pet changes, with supporting evidence, Its being ignored because it was a bug that was not intended by soney verrant. But it wans't changed till kunark. Hence its part of classic. So is exp penalties, and race restrictions.

Leave in the bad bugs that penalize players, and take out the good bugs that give players an edge. Thats what made it classic classic, was the good bugs.

[Haynar]

Moved into the Rants and Flames section, as that is the path people have chosen to take in this thread.

XOXOXOX

Haynar

[umpf2010]

of course it was overpowered and needed a nerf (glad they waited) but the added FD -if not attacking it will work- "fix" is just odd. Guess this is more bout finding balance between classic enforcement and silly re-bugging mistakes in classic.

No disrespect to the crew, appreciate all the work you guys put in.

[Dabamf]

Siinge continues to cherry pick wrong info from retards on alla to support his misinformation train. I seriously don't think you've posted ANYTHING correct on these forums. Spell FD could always fail.

[Muzyn]

P99 FD = targets blur when stunned or fleeing
Live FD = target doesn't blur when stunned or fleeing

FD powerleveling is insanely overpowered on P99.. I monk PL'd on live for years, I wish it was this easy.