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View Full Version : This should probably be in OT, but since it will no doubt end up as a flame war..


Hasbinbad
05-03-2011, 03:46 PM
The following was emailed to me as a part of the TZM list. These are not my words, nor do I agree with all of them, but there is undeniable truthiness herein.

---

On May 1, 2011 Pres. Barack Obama appeared on national television with the
spontaneous announcement that Osama bin Laden, the purported organizer of
the tragic events of September 11th 2001, was killed by military forces in
Pakistan.

Within moments, a media blitz ran across virtually all television networks
in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display,
reflective of a level of emotional immaturity that borders on cultural
psychosis. Depictions of people running through the streets of New York and
Washington chanting jingoistic American slogans, waving their flags like
the members of some cult, praising the death of another human being,
reveals yet another layer of this sickness we call modern society.

It is not the scope of this response to address the political usage of such
an event or to illuminate the staged orchestration of how public perception
was to be controlled by the mainstream media and the United States
Government. Rather the point of this article is to express the gross
irrationality apparent and how our culture becomes so easily fixed and
emotionally charged with respect to surface symbology, rather than true
root problems, solutions or rational considerations of circumstance.

The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means
nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism. His death
simply serves as a catharsis for a culture that has a neurotic fixation on
revenge and retribution. The very fact that the Government which, from a
psychological standpoint, has always served as a paternal figure for it
citizens, reinforces the idea that murdering people is a solution to
anything should be enough for most of us to take pause and consider the
quality of the values coming out of the zeitgeist itself.

However, beyond the emotional distortions and tragic, vindictive pattern of
rewarding the continuation of human division and violence comes a more
practical consideration regarding what the problem really is and the
importance of that problem with respect to priority.

The death of any human being is of an immeasurable consequence in society.
It is never just the death of the individual. It is the death of
relationships, companionship, support and the integrity of familial and
communal environments. The unnecessary deaths of 3000 people on September
11, 2001 is no more or no less important than the deaths of those during
the World Wars, via cancer and disease, accidents or anything else.

As a society, it is safe to say that we seek a world that strategically
limits all such unnecessary consequences through social approaches that
allow for the greatest safety our ingenuity can create. It is in this
context that the neurotic obsession with the events of September 11th, 2001
become gravely insulting and detrimental to progress. An environment has
now been created where outrageous amounts of money, resources and energy is
spent seeking and destroying very small subcultures of human beings that
pose ideological differences and act on those differences through violence.

Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from
automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple
structural changes. That's ten 9/11's each year... yet no one seems to pine
over this epidemic. Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart
disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to
environmental influences in the majority. Yet, regardless of the over 330
9/11's occurring each year in this context, the governmental budget
allocations for research on these illnesses is only a small fraction of the
money spent on “anti-terrorism” operations.

Such a list could go on and on with regard to the perversion of priority
when it comes to what it means to truly save and protect human life and I
hope many out there can recognize the severe imbalance we have at hand with
respect to our values.

So, coming back to the point of revenge and retribution, I will conclude
this response with a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., likely the most
brilliant intuitive mind when it came to conflict and the power of
non-violence. On September 15, 1963 a Birmingham Alabama church was bombed,
killing four little girls attending Sunday school.

In a public address, Dr. King stated:

“What murdered these four girls? Look around. You will see that many
people that you never thought about participated in this evil act. So
tonight all of us must leave here with a new determination to struggle. God
has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America.
We can't save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We can't save the
soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical
weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take
up the ammunition of love.”

- Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963 -


~Peter Joseph

Hasbinbad
05-03-2011, 03:48 PM
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/

Abacab "The REAL truth"
05-03-2011, 03:52 PM
I read this and I'd give Peter a C-

Great understanding of the English language, however there are no sources and it seemed to be pushing Peter's opinion and beliefs as opposed to an intellectual recourse to the events that have transpired...

But hey a C- is still passing for this Poly-sci major!

naez
05-03-2011, 03:52 PM
There's a good book from the 90s, Civil War II. I suggest you check it out if you want to survive Obamageddon.

Hasbinbad
05-03-2011, 03:56 PM
I read this and I'd give Peter a C-

Great understanding of the English language, however there are no sources and it seemed to be pushing Peter's opinion and beliefs as opposed to an intellectual recourse to the events that have transpired...

But hey a C- is still passing for this Poly-sci major!
other than the statistics of how many people die.. ..which are easily verifiable by the nimmest of nimrods.. ..it's a fucking opinion piece, abacab, that's why it seems like it's pushing peter's opinion.

Abacab "The REAL truth"
05-03-2011, 03:57 PM
other than the statistics of how many people die.. ..which are easily verifiable by the nimmest of nimrods.. ..it's a fucking opinion piece, abacab, that's why it seems like it's pushing peter's opinion.

Opinions? in MY classroom?

Not likely.

Daldolma
05-03-2011, 04:01 PM
Jesus, TZM? You have got to be shitting me. Dude thinks we need to eliminate currency and move back to the barter system. Fucking hippies.

Ruinous
05-03-2011, 04:02 PM
Good read. Thanks for posting!

Hasbinbad
05-03-2011, 04:07 PM
Jesus, TZM? You have got to be shitting me. Dude thinks we need to eliminate currency and move back to the barter system. Fucking hippies.
I'm not saying he is the messiah.

The OP has a lot of good points, however you feel about TZM.

Massive Marc
05-03-2011, 04:08 PM
Bro... It's Peter FUCKING Joseph. The guy is a fucking wack job. He has no clue about geopolitics and political agenda's.

Hasbinbad
05-03-2011, 04:11 PM
Bro... It's Peter FUCKING Joseph. The guy is a fucking wack job. He has no clue about geopolitics and political agenda's.
Preconceptions and supposition.

I'm not saying anything about his movies, I'm reposting an email he sent out. This email has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

Take a deep breath.

Read the original post.

THEN comment.

jilena
05-03-2011, 04:15 PM
Politics are so boring. I think I'll just not have any children I have to worry about and ride out the current wave of video game awesomeness til the world collapses. Woohoo!

Massive Marc
05-03-2011, 04:16 PM
my point was that peter joseph isn't exactly a reputable person. So basically anything he says is bullshit.

not sure why you're telling me to take a breath. when someone swears in their posts, it doesn't mean they are raging at the computer. go get some sun goof.

jilena
05-03-2011, 04:16 PM
Politics are so boring. I think I'll just not have any children I have to worry about and ride out the current wave of video game awesomeness til the world collapses. Woohoo!

Besides. P1999 guild politics are WAY more interesting.

Daldolma
05-03-2011, 04:28 PM
The OP's good points are limited to the statistics that, as you stated above, are known to even the nimmest of nimrods.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with enthusiasm over the death of the man responsible for the darkest day in recent US history. It doesn't make it idiotic, jingoistic, or neurotic. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a government that accepts and even celebrates the death of an enemy that has caused as much death as bin Laden. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a government that supports "revenge", if that's what you want to call it. You don't absorb a hit like 9/11 and allow its perpetrators to live out the rest of their days in peace.

Do far too many people die of cancer and car accidents? Yes. Do we do enough to prevent those deaths? No. Does that mean Osama's death shouldn't be welcomed? Hell no. There is a significant difference between accidental deaths, environmental deaths, and murders. The OP can try to pretend a death is a death, but it's not. A 75-year old that chose to smoke cigarettes for 40 years and dies of lung cancer does not equal a murder. A car accident at 80 miles per hour that results in 3 deaths does not equal a triple homicide.

baalzy
05-03-2011, 04:40 PM
Besides. P1999 guild politics are WAY more interesting.

Darian
05-03-2011, 04:58 PM
Fuck this guy.



Within moments, a media blitz ran across virtually all television networks
in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display,
reflective of a level of emotional immaturity that borders on cultural
psychosis. Depictions of people running through the streets of New York and
Washington chanting jingoistic American slogans, waving their flags like
the members of some cult, praising the death of another human being,
reveals yet another layer of this sickness we call modern society.

Peter doesn't know how to use the word "only." This was not something that could "only" be described as grotesque, because none of those news networks did that. He is the only one who has referred to it as such. And I would reserve "emotional immaturity" for someone who would refer to the most notorious mass murderer in 60 years as just "another human being."

The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism.

Except that, yknow, he was the leader of the world's largest international terrorist group. This is like saying that if you're at war with a country, assassinating that country's president/king/leader means nothing when it comes to defeating that country.



The death of any human being is of an immeasurable consequence in society.
It is never just the death of the individual. It is the death of
relationships, companionship, support and the integrity of familial and
communal environments. The unnecessary deaths of 3000 people on September 11, 2001 is no more or no less important than the deaths of those during the World Wars, via cancer and disease, accidents or anything else.

"Important" is way too ambiguous a term to use. We're currently working on a cure for cancer. We invented seatbelts to decrease the likelihood of car accidents. We killed bin Laden to decrease the likelihood of anyone else's dying the way the 9/11 victims did. Is this so hard to understand?


Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from
automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple
structural changes. That's ten 9/11's each year... yet no one seems to pine
over this epidemic. Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart
disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to
environmental influences in the majority. Yet, regardless of the over 330
9/11's occurring each year in this context, the governmental budget
allocations for research on these illnesses is only a small fraction of the
money spent on “anti-terrorism” operations.

Wanna know what the difference is between car accidents and 9/11? No one deliberately, actively planned for 30,000 people to die in car accidents. Ditto for heart disease/cancer.

The fact that this guy is trying to lump in 9/11 deaths as equally "important" or attention-worthy as car accidents and heart disease just means he doesn't care about (or is wilfully omitting for the sake of argument) causation. Our government does care about causation.

For Peter Joseph, OP, and anyone else who's pissed that most of America is joyously happy, I'll try to explain why as simply as I can. I am not a Muslim. Most of America isn't Muslim. I'm going out on a limb here and saying that those Americans who are Muslim aren't Muslim enough for people like bin Laden, because they participate in things like democratic elections. Know why this is important?

It's because for the last few decades, Osama bin Laden woke up every day and thought about how he's going to kill me. And you. All of us. He proved he was capable of doing this. You wouldn't celebrate if you knew a man who wanted you dead was gone?

ps Daldolma put most of what I wanted to say in better words

Cyrano
05-03-2011, 05:12 PM
http://www.hulu.com/watch/237877/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-to-kill-a-mockingturd

Cyrano
05-03-2011, 05:12 PM
"This is not the time."

Bigfatty
05-03-2011, 05:29 PM
What a troll email. He's trollin on Obama's "thread" bout pwning Osama bin Laden. We don't like trolls around here, this guy Peter Joseph can suck it. He's obviously a bluebie too.

Asher
05-03-2011, 05:29 PM
I agree with almost everything the OP said.

Asher

Massive Marc
05-03-2011, 05:32 PM
I agree with almost everything the OP said.

Asher

That isn't surprising at all....

mimixownzall
05-03-2011, 06:12 PM
Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from
automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple
structural changes.

Really? Let's hear your 'simple' solution instead of throwing out random unsupported factoids.

Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart
disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to
environmental influences in the majority.

Another example... this article is fking retarded.

G13
05-03-2011, 06:27 PM
Hasbinbad nobody cares about your looney world view bro

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2009/04/weekend_diversion_do_tinfoil_h/tinfoil_hat_antenna.jpg

Spud
05-03-2011, 07:54 PM
I just completely disagree with this guy.

So some young people ran outside the White House and got excited who gives a shit?

"The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism."

What? of course it does. He is the leader of AL-QAEDA. He could of been plotting another attack for all we know.