Good fix Nilbog, but how about making this playable now?

[Hyjalx]

Bout time on the removal of recharges. I mean, for all its worth, this cheesed the game.

Can we now make this a real server again and unroot the dragons? This isn't working man. Ya killed all the guilds on blue or any small numbers to do things on their own by forcing people to form 100+ man guilds for rooted dragons on a server that has lost 30-40% of its population since its peak. Even if Green wasn't released, it still destroyed many guilds and much of the the community along with it.

This was after going through the foot race era which was equally as terrible. Can we please just go back to basics? Is it really that hard to ask? Or we are custom EQ forever now? With recharges adjusted this needs to be looked at.

I have made my opinion on lists clear (they are equally as terrible for the game), but at the very least, make blue playable first. As an EQ enthusiast, this has become an embarrassment.

[Kohedron]

nice demands for a free game, 10/10 would read again my man

[loramin]

First off, let me just say I <3 the fact that that Hyjal organizes open raids, and I'm not trying to pick on him. I also am no fan of monopoly guilds, and I have no specific personal opinion on rooted dragons. But I do have one strongly held belief: the devs should "make the game like it was in 1999-2001".

And that's the crux of the issue: we all know no one was fighting dragons at the zone line in 2001, so no solution that involves "let's go back to unclassically fighting dragons at the zone line" is ever going to fly here. The devs are as likely to reverse it as they are to un-nerf the wands or remove the 25 mob AoE limit.

Whether you're a noob begging for mounts and moon cats, or a seasoned vet whining about about the golden days of P99 raiding, if you're not "for classic" your against what this place is about ... and at least the noobs have the excuse that they don't know better. Every seasoned raider has been here way too long to not see the giant words "Classic EverQuest" in the upper-left corner.

But look, that doesn't mean you have to just accept rooted dragons either! All I'm saying is, if you want to crap on them, then propose something better ... and just going back to unrooted dragons is not better! We all know it will result in unclassic fighting of dragons at zone line, and then we're not playing the same game that people played back in 2001.

If you want to see rooted dragons gone, propose a more classic solution! Don't just complain.

[Hyjalx]

A free game that we all love that is supposed to be a classic EQ emu. I promoted folks to donate to p99 during my open raids AND in my shouts at times in East commonlands for years. Tell me something new.

[Yoink1986]

Rooted dragons for all.keep up the good work guys!

[Hyjalx]

If you want my honest opinion Loramin, here it is.

1. Unroot the dragons
2. Only 1 toon for each entity allowed in north at a time or DQ
3. Get rid of pet tracking if not already. Ranger/druid/bard + facetrack only (Lokk time!)
4. Ban the use of Earring of Frozen skull or increase the recharge rate dramatically if not done already (I own 2, gulp).
5. Ban the use of Kazumi for group FTE attempts
6. Allow any dragon to be pulled to entrance.
7. Minimal CSR. Determine infractions if time permits or within an acceptable time frame once all evidence is collected. Concedes on the next x4 on the specific dragon in question for infractions. Concede x3 if admitted before a review is conducted by staff.

[Hotel]

Classic mechanics are the solution to an unclassic problem.

[baakss]

If you want my honest opinion Loramin, here it is.

1. Unroot the dragons
2. Only 1 toon for each entity allowed in north at a time or DQ
3. Get rid of pet tracking if not already. Ranger/druid/bard + facetrack only (Lokk time!)
4. Ban the use of Earring of Frozen skull or increase the recharge rate dramatically if not done already (I own 2, gulp).
5. Ban the use of Kazumi for group FTE attempts
6. Allow any dragon to be pulled to entrance.
7. Minimal CSR. Determine infractions if time permits or within an acceptable time frame once all evidence is collected. Concedes on the next x4 on the specific dragon in question for infractions. Concede x3 if admitted before a review is conducted by staff.

This sounds exactly like classic Everquest was.

[Yoink1986]

Why have classic mechanics on a non classic server. Keep em rooted.

[Mblake81]

6. Allow any dragon to be pulled to entrance.

that's the key isn't it.

8. DA idols are no drop, Cleric/Pal only and changed to very rare.

The guys who remember EQ raiding for that one specific zone involving groups crawling have had their fun for sometime. Now might be the time to consider returning it to the way other people remember classic TOV, which is zone pulling the dragons there.

You can search the forum, iirc plenty of screenshots have been provided proving it was done. It really doesn't matter though and no sarcasm when I say you can pull a lion to Karana bridge because you can.

Grats

[Mblake81]

heh, I swear if I hear one more squalling monk in comms crying for a DA idol you have no idea how many hobbits and gnome will suffer my wrath.

[Ripqozko]

that's the key isn't it.

8. DA idols are no drop, Cleric/Pal only and changed to very rare.

The guys who remember EQ raiding for that one specific zone involving groups crawling have had their fun for sometime. Now might be the time to consider returning it to the way other people remember classic TOV, which is zone pulling the dragons there.

You can search the forum, iirc plenty of screenshots have been provided proving it was done. It really doesn't matter though and no sarcasm when I say you can pull a lion to Karana bridge because you can.

Grats

youc an change that and mage still best, triple DA even without idol. more if you can stutter step another earring charge

[Mblake81]

youc an change that and mage still best, triple DA even without idol. more if you can stutter step another earring charge

You're right.

I am simply at the end of my rope trying to pay attention to comms with some doofus monk "WHO HAS MY DA IDOL.. WHATS UP WHO HAS IT"

Fuck that noise.

[kelsoider]

Let the dragons spawn unrooted in random zones at random times.

[Hyjalx]

Little long, but dragons were 100% being pulled to zone in/zone out during this era.


The main reason why I even defend pulling dragons to entrance/exit is from witnessing it myself on Bristlebane. I was a raid leader in Club fu from Classic-Velious era.

Toward the end of velious era, a little known euro guild named Arch Overseers started to attempt ToV targets after patch day (I think it was Tuesday morning when servers came up). They were strictly an EAST ToV guild, that everyone overlooked.

Club Fu was a PST timeframe guild. Ring of Valor was pretty much the same. We use to headbutt in ToV at Aary pit often. Shiften the Shapeshifter (our GM at the time) had to seperate us quite a bit. I know Eratani and a few OG's remember this well. AO wasn't even in the picture.

Well, one day AO started pulling Ikatar to zone in. I remember laughing watching Vabtoo/Vabeker die all afternoon pulling iky to zone in, and the subsequent guild wipes after.

Well, Ikatar eventually died. Then Vabtoo pulled Eashan to zone in... and he died too. Before we knew it, All of ToV would be cleared out before 2pm weekly.

We woke sleeper not long after AO started showing up in ST. We were farming ToV and Sleepers for many months and were burning out. Club Fu was a shell of its former self (sound familiar?)

The point of my story is, NToV targets were coming to entrance/exit during this era. In Club Fu we pulled west dragons to West exit as well. Just because it was 20 years ago, didn't mean we were all idiots. So thats Ikatar, Eashan, LTK, Telk, and Gozz that I know for a fact whether people believe me or not. We fought Aary around the corner before the pit/stairs and summoned to the safe hallway in North... which use to be kinda near doubles, but wasn't actually in doubles.


Before we crumbled we made a half ass effort to try to raid early and login before AO did on patch day, but failed. That's Everquest.

[Yoink1986]

So what you are saying is you want dragons rooted?

[Hyjalx]

I'm saying it's part of the dam game. If ya don't like it play WoW. Everquest wasn't meant to be this Carebear 2020 version. You either adapt or die.

[Nexii]

Rooted dragons would be fine if not for all the strange raid rules like having to go back to entrance when one pops. Just creates a big time sink and doesn't help the small guilds any either.

[Hyjalx]

Anyway, I said what I wanted to say. Not gonna water my message down. Rooted dragons isn't real Everquest. Never was. Never will be. Enjoy the era while it lasts.

[RipVanFish]

For the raiding newbs among us, do people want dragons unrooted so they can be cheesed and killed easier?

[Ripqozko]

For the raiding newbs among us, do people want dragons unrooted so they can be cheesed and killed easier?

killing trash doesnt make them harder, just more time consuming or require more zerg to do it at same time.

[condap99]

Hyjal is right. Experimentation is good. Good on the devs for trying. But not every experiment works. It's really obvious that rooted dragons had the exact opposite effect as was intended. There is less competition in NToV than at any point in server history.

Guilds are not intended to sit in each others camps in north, and play chicken with who will pull the dragon with more mobs in camp. It's hard enough to determine who is training what when theres 2 mages and 2 FTErs per guild in north. But when theres 200+ people, it's just a disaster.

Unroot em.

[loramin]

Little long, but dragons were 100% being pulled to zone in/zone out during this era.


The main reason why I even defend pulling dragons to entrance/exit is from witnessing it myself on Bristlebane. I was a raid leader in Club fu from Classic-Velious era.

Toward the end of velious era, a little known euro guild named Arch Overseers started to attempt ToV targets after patch day (I think it was Tuesday morning when servers came up). They were strictly an EAST ToV guild, that everyone overlooked.

Club Fu was a PST timeframe guild. Ring of Valor was pretty much the same. We use to headbutt in ToV at Aary pit often. Shiften the Shapeshifter (our GM at the time) had to seperate us quite a bit. I know Eratani and a few OG's remember this well. AO wasn't even in the picture.

Well, one day AO started pulling Ikatar to zone in. I remember laughing watching Vabtoo/Vabeker die all afternoon pulling iky to zone in, and the subsequent guild wipes after.

Well, Ikatar eventually died. Then Vabtoo pulled Eashan to zone in... and he died too. Before we knew it, All of ToV would be cleared out before 2pm weekly.

We woke sleeper not long after AO started showing up in ST. We were farming ToV and Sleepers for many months and were burning out. Club Fu was a shell of its former self (sound familiar?)

The point of my story is, NToV targets were coming to entrance/exit during this era. In Club Fu we pulled west dragons to West exit as well. Just because it was 20 years ago, didn't mean we were all idiots. So thats Ikatar, Eashan, LTK, Telk, and Gozz that I know for a fact whether people believe me or not. We fought Aary around the corner before the pit/stairs and summoned to the safe hallway in North... which use to be kinda near doubles, but wasn't actually in doubles.


Before we crumbled we made a half ass effort to try to raid early and login before AO did on patch day, but failed. That's Everquest.

First off ... that post brought back some memories, and it was fun to hear those names again :)

https://i.imgur.com/bmaJPui.gif

The original (1.0) Loramin started on Bristlebane, and while I was never in Fu I was friends with a lot of them IRL (for instance, I know the story of how you convinced Verant to let you have a guild essentially named "Club Fuck You").

But that aside... yes, some servers, just before Luclin, pulled dragons to the zone ... and then as soon as more servers started doing it (in Luclin) Verant quickly rooted the dragons. So, it was clearly an exploit, it got fixed on live, and the only reason it didn't get fixed during Velious is that it wasn't common enough (and maybe also the devs were too busy trying to get Luclin out the door).

Just because something happened in classic does not mean it was classic. Rotations also 100% happened on live servers during the classic era, and while I'm a big fan of having them here, I have to agree that the evidence suggests they were the minority. Rotations aren't classic ... in the sense that most people don't remember them existing in the classic era (while they also are classic by other definitions).

Pulling to zone was the same thing ... only it was also an exploit that got patched almost in the classic era. Both things are "quantumly classic", but P99 can't exist in a quantum state. So R&N have to pick a state, and of course they're going to pick the game the way it was meant to be played, and was played on most servers through most of Velious.

But like I said before: that solution was post-classic in a literal sense. If someone were to propose a better solution, that actually made the server feel more the way people remembered it being in 2001 ... maybe the staff might just embrace it.

But a solution that has the whole server pulling to zone 100% of the time most definitely isn't that.

[loramin]

Rooted dragons would be fine if not for all the strange raid rules like having to go back to entrance when one pops. Just creates a big time sink and doesn't help the small guilds any either.

See, Nexii has the right idea! The problem is not that our server has classic Velious (again, with a definition of "classic = what most people remember and/or what was happening on the majority of servers during the classic era".

I don't know if the problem is the raid rules, but since those aren't classic I'm inclined to believe that a fix lies with changing them ... not restoring unclassic exploits.

[Endonde]

And that's the crux of the issue: we all know no one was fighting dragons at the zone line in 2001, so no solution that involves "let's go back to unclassically fighting dragons at the zone line" is ever going to fly here.





yes, some servers, just before Luclin, pulled dragons to the zone .

I'm really not sure what to believe anymore.

[magnetaress]

green made everyone a frakkin moron :(

[Bbeta]

I'm convinced Loramin doesn't even raid based on his Magelo profile.

the most vocal usually dont

[baakss]

Little long, but dragons were 100% being pulled to zone in/zone out during this era.


The main reason why I even defend pulling dragons to entrance/exit is from witnessing it myself on Bristlebane. I was a raid leader in Club fu from Classic-Velious era.

Toward the end of velious era, a little known euro guild named Arch Overseers started to attempt ToV targets after patch day (I think it was Tuesday morning when servers came up). They were strictly an EAST ToV guild, that everyone overlooked.

Club Fu was a PST timeframe guild. Ring of Valor was pretty much the same. We use to headbutt in ToV at Aary pit often. Shiften the Shapeshifter (our GM at the time) had to seperate us quite a bit. I know Eratani and a few OG's remember this well. AO wasn't even in the picture.

Well, one day AO started pulling Ikatar to zone in. I remember laughing watching Vabtoo/Vabeker die all afternoon pulling iky to zone in, and the subsequent guild wipes after.

Well, Ikatar eventually died. Then Vabtoo pulled Eashan to zone in... and he died too. Before we knew it, All of ToV would be cleared out before 2pm weekly.

We woke sleeper not long after AO started showing up in ST. We were farming ToV and Sleepers for many months and were burning out. Club Fu was a shell of its former self (sound familiar?)

The point of my story is, NToV targets were coming to entrance/exit during this era. In Club Fu we pulled west dragons to West exit as well. Just because it was 20 years ago, didn't mean we were all idiots. So thats Ikatar, Eashan, LTK, Telk, and Gozz that I know for a fact whether people believe me or not. We fought Aary around the corner before the pit/stairs and summoned to the safe hallway in North... which use to be kinda near doubles, but wasn't actually in doubles.


Before we crumbled we made a half ass effort to try to raid early and login before AO did on patch day, but failed. That's Everquest.


Do you have an in era screenshot of Vulak dead at ent?


We killed Eashen and Ikky in picture room on live, not through some sort of miracle pulling, we cleared to them and it was empty the whole way to us.

No trainups, da's, whatever.

Even top guilds like Legacy of Steel killed Dozekar in his room. Their site is still active, so you can browse their pics.

[remen]

You know what else isn't classic? 150+ overgeared players killing 1 dragon. So don't tell me this set of rules has created a server with a classic feel.

[loramin]

I'm convinced Loramin doesn't even raid based on his Magelo profile.

I don't (I used to, but not at an "AA" level).

Regardless, you don't have to raid in order to be tired of people (many of whom have been here awhile, and should know better) ignoring the upper-left corner of their screen. This place is about classic, and if you want to use "X existed on at least one server prior to Luclin's launch" as your measure of whether something is classic ... well, then, rotations were classic also.

Let the rotations begin ;)

[Endonde]

Some people just need to come to the understanding that the server will never feel like Classic, we can't erase all the knowledge we have about the game from our minds. So this dream of recreating the experience of classic Everquest is impossible.

As far as rooted dragons go, I remember guilds pulling dragons to trips hall specifically so I think that they shouldn't have been rooted and maybe should have been leashed instead, but I don't think the staff cares. Seems like they just wanted to reduce the number of petitions they were receiving each week and it looks like it succeeded so we're probably stuck with it.

[magnetaress]

Some people just need to come to the understanding that the server will never feel like Classic, we can't erase all the knowledge we have about the game from our minds. So this dream of recreating the experience of classic Everquest is impossible.

As far as rooted dragons go, I remember guilds pulling dragons to trips hall specifically so I think that they shouldn't have been rooted and maybe should have been leashed instead, but I don't think the staff cares. Seems like they just wanted to reduce the number of petitions they were receiving each week and it looks like it succeeded so we're probably stuck with it.

honestly we should just punish the idiots punchin the clocks and get on with it

[Izmael]

Pulling dragons to trips halls totally existed and is petfectly fine.

Pulling dragons, including Vulak, to zone-freaking-in is wrong on too many levels to list.

[Baler]

I'd advise against making threads calling out nilbog in any way shape or form.

[Mblake81]

For the raiding newbs among us, do people want dragons unrooted so they can be cheesed and killed easier?

There was a whole raid culture setup around the cheesing. The pull team were the all star players who were neck deep in strategies on how to train the zone around and bounce the Dragon off different pullers, using DA idols, spells and other assorted items. These guys were the most vocal when the rooted change happened because it stole the spotlight from their level of play.

(Since mistakes could happen with a complicated pull it allowed other smaller guilds who were there and could 'snipe' the Dragon. The rooting removed this and caused some heartache for some of the smaller less elite guilds as they had worked hard to get to that level of cheese.)

The other group were the 10 minute guys. They would have their characters camped and log on just for the kill. It wasn't about playing the character they leveled to 60 or even using the gear they earned. The rooted change actually let them use that high resist gear etc but it took too long for their style of play. See possible 3+ hour crawls vs. 10 minute log on. They batphone, a mass alarm sent to everyones cellphone alerting them a Dragon had spawned and was being pulled would que them to log in.

Dragons were pulled by the pull team the instant they popped. So it was a mixture of cheesing the zone and skilled play, although I have to be careful how I use the world skill because there is a counter argument here on the forums that EQ requires 0 (zero) skill to play. Its part of forum pwning.

You would think if the original developers for this era of EQ wanted their ultimate zone being pulled in such a way then they would have just put all the dragons near the zone in that can be single pulled/raided with no zone trash mobs to be annoying time sinks. Part of elite level play is bypassing all that to get the cookie. So the argument is one consisting of players remembering it being one way while the other group think it is a waste of time when they can get the good stuff in 10 minutes or less.

[Clearmind]

If you want my honest opinion Loramin, here it is.

1. Unroot the dragons
2. Only 1 toon for each entity allowed in north at a time or DQ
3. Get rid of pet tracking if not already. Ranger/druid/bard + facetrack only (Lokk time!)
4. Ban the use of Earring of Frozen skull or increase the recharge rate dramatically if not done already (I own 2, gulp).
5. Ban the use of Kazumi for group FTE attempts
6. Allow any dragon to be pulled to entrance.
7. Minimal CSR. Determine infractions if time permits or within an acceptable time frame once all evidence is collected. Concedes on the next x4 on the specific dragon in question for infractions. Concede x3 if admitted before a review is conducted by staff.

Agree..

[magnetaress]

remove all csr over mob disputes let all disputes be resolved by trains and or dps and or memblur

have csr only support stuff like deleted items and guild tags

problem solved

[Clearmind]

You know what else isn't classic? 150+ overgeared players killing 1 dragon. So don't tell me this set of rules has created a server with a classic feel.

Limit raid groups to like 60 and make it some what if a challenge.

[magnetaress]

remove all csr over mob disputes let all disputes be resolved by trains and or dps and or memblur

have csr only support stuff like deleted items and guild tags

problem solved

also try red once the above is implemented

[Mblake81]

Some people just need to come to the understanding that the server will never feel like Classic, we can't erase all the knowledge we have about the game from our minds. So this dream of recreating the experience of classic Everquest is impossible.

As far as rooted dragons go, I remember guilds pulling dragons to trips hall specifically so I think that they shouldn't have been rooted and maybe should have been leashed instead, but I don't think the staff cares. Seems like they just wanted to reduce the number of petitions they were receiving each week and it looks like it succeeded so we're probably stuck with it.

Leashing might be in the future, we will see. I think you are 50% correct about the petitions. The other part was no one could prove that Dragons were pulled to the zone. There was some heresay that they were, I think one guy said he seen it happen but didn't see if that was post Luclin or not.

But the elf lawyer meme at least partially came from all of this. Petition war to see who broke which of the 3,256 different raid rules so they could forum gloat and get 'free pixels'... etc etc etc.

Rants & Flames might have died though. People enjoy their drama. Drama is fine but I would prefer to skip elf lawyer and PetitionQuest with this guild or that guild getting suspended over retardation. Don't know if that is possible or not yet, would require a shift in player culture I would think.

[loramin]

So your opinion on the subject is worthless.

I'd argue that to the contrary, I'm far more impartial than any active raid participant.

It's like if a Democrat and a Republican are both telling you that something is right/wrong. Maybe one side is right, maybe the other is ... but you know both would be willing to lie to you (and probably themselves) if it helped their team win. And realistically, both are probably full of shit.

Meanwhile that anarchist sitting in the corner may be crazy, but at least he'll be honest with you.

[Mblake81]

Limit raid groups to like 60 and make it some what if a challenge.

So you gonna make unclassic rules on how many can raid?

-that was an argument brought up last time this was discussed. Your idea isn't new. However we are dealing with the new dynamic that "nothing on this server is classic so who cares what is classic or not??"

I would say Nilbog/Rogean do. They were probably tired of being jerked back and forth like all developers who interact with their players. I can't blame them when it goes on for years.. the very real thing that P99 players have advanced beyond what was capable of players in era.

Yeah, you could have a 60 limit that wasn't enforced via Felwite & Erudin level Elflawyering with restrictions and punishments that all are 'not classic' because it was self regulating at the time. No one had to bother. Dragons in NToV were not a problem because so few could do it at the time. This reality can never be escaped on P99.

[Tenderizer]

For the raiding newbs among us, do people want dragons unrooted so they can be cheesed and killed easier?

What a way for them to experience classic eq. I can see it now the noob zones in and sits down, waits a bit and maybe does some buffing or something. Dragon shows up and....pixels. see's 10% of the zone and falls in love.

GG everyone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_A0s8vevY

[magnetaress]

What a way for them to experience classic eq. I can see it now the noob zones in and sits down, waits a bit and maybe does some buffing or something. Dragon shows up and....pixels. see's 10% of the zone and falls in love.

GG everyone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_A0s8vevY

yeap even bored housewives can have a blast with chucky

[Mblake81]

What a way for them to experience classic eq. I can see it now the noob zones in and sits down, waits a bit and maybe does some buffing or something. Dragon shows up and....pixels. see's 10% of the zone and falls in love.

GG everyone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_A0s8vevY

If you take Hyjals story as truth, I was on BB and remember Club FU ROV and AO. I was in a smaller non-raiding guild but I do recall Club FU and Ring of Valor having drama.

So what we have, according to the story, is that a small Euro guild found a means to bypass the bigger raiding guilds and get the cookie. An exception is cool when it is the exception but it became the norm on P99. Since there are few secrets on this server it became standard operation for all guilds involved.

Club Fu woke the sleeper to keep AO from getting warder loot, sorry they didn't get warder loot.

A solution that would allow for a scenario like Hyjals to play out would be wiping blue. A restart takes place where it doesn't follow the classic timeline. A year from Classic- Velious before the next wipe+restart.

That would allow him and a crack elite team to power through the base game, because that stuff is in the way of raiding, and get into NToV to have at it until some upstarts come along. Then its time to wake the sleeper, then disband as champs for that server cycle.

[Mblake81]

Note: There should be a disclaimer for new players that the base game is as close to classic as it gets but original everquest can never be remade.

Well, maybe if N&R only allowed brand new players on a server and let them experience it all with no wikis etc. I doubt it would last long though as this is driven by nostalgia, afterall original Everquest is minecraft-like. It took inspiration from Mojang.

[Hyjalx]

I would add this last notation or edit to #6

*Dragons starting from Aary pit (including Aary) must be killed beyond the last door entering North. This also includes Dozekar the Cursed remaining in the East Wing.*

I also forgot the other "cheese" so here is #8 (if this was removed already, ignore)


#8. Necromancer pets now become KoS when the owner Feign deaths in Temple of Veeshan.

For those who don't know what that is, its called cheese pulling using graft sight with a factioned necro. This may or may not have been removed. Hard to tell now with the dragons rooted.

[Hyjalx]

If we can't fix the mechanic, graft sight needs to go the way of levitate in ToV.

[Hyjalx]

1. Unroot the dragons
2. Only 1 toon for each entity allowed in north at a time or DQ
3. Get rid of pet tracking if not already. Ranger/druid/bard + facetrack only (Lokk time!)
4. Ban the use of Earring of Frozen skull or increase the recharge rate dramatically if not done already (I own 2, gulp).
5. Ban the use of Kazumi for group FTE attempts
6. Dragons starting from Aary pit (including Aary) must be killed beyond the last door entering North. This also includes Dozekar the Cursed remaining in the East Wing. Ikatar, Eashan, LTK, Gozz and Telk may be pulled to entrance or exit.
7. Minimal CSR. Determine infractions if time permits or within an acceptable time frame once all evidence is collected. Concedes on the next x4 on the specific dragon in question for infractions. Concede x3 if admitted before a review is conducted by staff.
8. Graft sight removed from being used in Temple of Veeshan.


The only part that I'm not 100% sure about is Dozekar staying in East. I mean, I personally don't remember anyone pulling him to entrance, but due to proximity like the others I listed, it probably should be considered. Everything else besides Eashan, Ikatar, Telk, Gozz, LTK, and Dozekar was fought around the corner before Aary stairs or deeper in north. It's just the way it was.

[Molitoth]

I'm saying it's part of the dam game. If ya don't like it play WoW. Everquest wasn't meant to be this Carebear 2020 version. You either adapt or die.

Take your own advice.

[kaizersoze]

I'm saying it's part of the dam game. If ya don't like it play WoW. Everquest wasn't meant to be this Carebear 2020 version. You either adapt or die.

well rooted dragons are part of the game now, adapt or die.

[Ripqozko]

well rooted dragons are part of the game now, adapt or die.

He did technically, he died.

[Mblake81]

He did technically, he died.

https://i.imgur.com/5PgwfBe.png

[tyrant49333]

I take issue with people that have huge opinions on shit that doesn't effect them at all. Loramin you don't even raid why are you arguing about rooted dragons rofl

[kaizersoze]

root statue / AoW / Dain / KT 2020

[Solist]

Keep them (TOV dragons including eashen/ikky) all leashed within 150 /loc of spawn location.

Add bag limits per week to each guild. If you kill vulak you have no god damn business killing dread, vox or hoshkar. Best learn to trade loots with other guilds if one of your members needs a white or green scale or something.

100% remove pet tracking.
Simply disable all DA spells in TOV, skyshrine, and VP.
Leash HOT mini’s to 100ft of spawn.
Leash CT, Draco, dain, KT, Statue to 200ft.
Leash xygoz, PD, nexona and druushk to 200ft.

Make lockets not a thing, they’re gamebreaking. Unbind all currently bound toons from WW.

Classic style raiding is something we could mechanically enforce, none of the prior metas are much fun. The current one is arguably the worst.

[Daelun]

All Im reading is we need guild instances so everyone can get their pixels.

Problem. Solved.

[kaizersoze]

All Im reading is we need guild instances so everyone can get their pixels.

Problem. Solved.

Make the raids harder in instanced too. Adds that will spawn and be unmezzable to let tanks generate more agro while the dps swaps.

[shadowdinah]

The top guilds will always figure out the best and easiest way to kill mobs.

Excuse us for trying to improve or trying new strats or having a little fun theory questing. I know this is something most of you dont understand...

Its a tough life to be an innovator, but its perfectly acceptable to be a blind, no thought follower.

You damn well know guilds in LIVE did everything they could to make their lives easier. Those who figured out the dragons could be killed at safe spots were better then those who wasted peoples time and killed at spawn.

Innovators vs followers.

Most of you are followers unfortunately.

[loramin]

Loramin you don't even raid why are you arguing about rooted dragons rofl

you don't have to raid in order to be tired of people (many of whom have been here awhile, and should know better) ignoring the upper-left corner of their screen.

Anyone who's been here awhile knows that I feel rotations would benefit Blue. But when I've made the "radical" suggestion ... that once in awhile anyone besides the armies of AA alts should get to see Lady Vox ... I get dogpiled on by the "hardcore raiders" about how "unclassic" that would be. Those same people, in thread after thread (again, this is like #567 on the topic), are blatantly ignoring the exact same argument they used to shut down rotations (that most servers in classic didn't have them for most of the time) ... as they beg for an unclassic exploit to be returned.

But look, if you go back to page one, I didn't start this off by telling Hyjal to go fuck himself. To the contrary, I said I respect him and what he's done for the server. My point was ... Hyjal and others have been here awhile. They should know (without me telling them) how pointless it is to beg for an unclassic exploit to be restored. So what I was saying wasn't "fuck you, you're wrong", it was "instead of begging for an unclassic exploit that you should know will never be restored ... why not do something actually beneficial with your time?"

Instead of fighting against the devs and their goal for this whole place (because last I checked, R&N aren't going to waiver on this whole "classic EverQuest" thing), why not try and work with them and dream up ideas to make this place better?

[shadowdinah]

why not try and work with them and dream up ideas to make this place better?

LOL They day the GM's reach out to us for suggestions would be a HUGE step in the right direction for p99..

Just like all the changes in the past where they failed to communicate and just change things on a whim.

*coughcoughROOTEDRAGONSandEVERYOTHERCHANGE*

[Mblake81]

The top guilds will always figure out the best and easiest way to kill mobs.

Excuse us for trying to improve or trying new strats or having a little fun theory questing. I know this is something most of you dont understand...

Its a tough life to be an innovator, but its perfectly acceptable to be a blind, no thought follower.

You damn well know guilds in LIVE did everything they could to make their lives easier. Those who figured out the dragons could be killed at safe spots were better then those who wasted peoples time and killed at spawn.

Innovators vs followers.

Most of you are followers unfortunately.

lol @ theory questing.

[loramin]

LOL They day the GM's reach out to us for suggestions would be a HUGE step in the right direction for p99.

Even if you don't think R&N read the forums (and I suspect they still do, to some degree), the rest of the staff actually posts from time to time, so we know they do.

If a player has a good idea, and they advocate for it, that idea will "catch on" and start appearing in more threads, right? Inevitably someone on staff is bound to read one of those threads, and see the idea.

And if someone on staff sees a good idea for improving this place, why wouldn't they use it?

[shadowdinah]

Even if you don't think R&N read the forums (and I suspect they still do, to some degree), the rest of the staff actually posts from time to time, so we know they do.

If a player has a good idea, and they advocate for it, that idea will "catch on" and start appearing in more threads, right? Inevitably someone on staff is bound to read one of those threads, and see the idea.

And if someone on staff sees a good idea for improving this place, why wouldn't they use it?

Don't believe the GM's are seeking suggestions in RNF. But that's just a hunch.
/shrug

[Mblake81]

When you quest for the theory

https://i.imgur.com/G3Y4YkE.gif

[-TK-]

Only read the first page or two because tears, but anyone else find it funny that some of the same people whining that clearing raid zones takes too long are the same people that stare at a wall for 16 hour windows or sit at the manastone camp for 60+ hours? These are also the same people whining about the recharge nerfs because they can't just fill their guild with auto-attacking warm bodies so much anymore. They hate that you might actually have to build a guild around people with working brains instead of those that just auto-engage and spam DPS because you can click your way to max aggro.

[kaizersoze]

Only read the first page or two because tears, but anyone else find it funny that some of the same people whining that clearing raid zones takes too long are the same people that stare at a wall for 16 hour windows or sit at the manastone camp for 60+ hours? These are also the same people whining about the recharge nerfs because they can't just fill their guild with auto-attacking warm bodies so much anymore. They hate that you might actually have to build a guild around people with working brains instead of those that just auto-engage and spam DPS because you can click your way to max aggro.

[cd288]

Can we now make this a real server again and unroot the dragons? This isn't working man. Ya killed all the guilds on blue or any small numbers to do things on their own by forcing people to form 100+ man guilds for rooted dragons on a server that has lost 30-40% of its population since its peak. Even if Green wasn't released, it still destroyed many guilds and much of the the community along with it.

Yeah I mean how dare they make it so that people have to actually have the necessary amount of people to crawl through the raid zone and get to the boss instead of being able to cheese them to the ZL every time (which was never done back in the day).

People should be embarrassed when they make this type of complaint. It stinks of modern MMO "I want things right when I want them and with as little effort as possible" type of mentality.

[shadowdinah]

Yeah I mean how dare they make it so that people have to actually have the necessary amount of people to crawl through the raid zone and get to the boss instead of being able to cheese them to the ZL every time (which was never done back in the day).

People should be embarrassed when they make this type of complaint. It stinks of modern MMO "I want things right when I want them and with as little effort as possible" type of mentality.

omg this made my day!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please please post more defending Riot. This is gold man! seriously!!

[cd288]

omg this made my day!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please please post more defending Riot. This is gold man! seriously!!

Not defending Riot. Don't even play on Blue anymore. You just have too much salt.

[shadowdinah]

Don't even play on Blue anymore.

[Vallaen]

To the people saying you have to crawl ToV now to get loot can you stop saying that please.

The meta is to CoTH to safe spots set up inside ToV so you can skip as much crawling as possible.

[kaizersoze]

disable coth in TOV 2020

[Ripqozko]

Last time we crawled lavittz trained 300 people.

[k9quaint]

Last time we crawled lavittz trained 300 people.

That was a train worthy of the gods.

[Solist]

Crawling TOV =/ Being cothed up to safe spot. Sitting in one spot. Train merbs away and tag in one at a time for 30mins.

Move to another spot 50ft away, press 1 every 15 seconds or autoattack.

Evac out.

Coth to another safe spot. Rinse repeat.

You're joking if you think anyone 'crawls' ToV at all. Even for Mir/Koi, you just sit at aary steps auto attacking for 40mins, then run for 20 seconds to dragon. Occasionally a guild may run from trips hallway through to vulak hallway.

Make the picture room and 4way mobs leash so you have to kill them (instead of train out to west), and make dragons only go so far as picture room hallway if we unroot them. Some form of having to 'crawl' is needed.

[Mblake81]

Last time we crawled lavittz trained 300 people.

I remember it well.

https://i.imgur.com/RQnnu3U.png

[Mblake81]

https://i.imgur.com/txgiuHs.jpg

[Ripqozko]

Congrats on posting reddit

[SantagarBrax]

There was a whole raid culture setup around the cheesing. The pull team were the all star players who were neck deep in strategies on how to train the zone around and bounce the Dragon off different pullers, using DA idols, spells and other assorted items. These guys were the most vocal when the rooted change happened because it stole the spotlight from their level of play.

(Since mistakes could happen with a complicated pull it allowed other smaller guilds who were there and could 'snipe' the Dragon. The rooting removed this and caused some heartache for some of the smaller less elite guilds as they had worked hard to get to that level of cheese.)

The other group were the 10 minute guys. They would have their characters camped and log on just for the kill. It wasn't about playing the character they leveled to 60 or even using the gear they earned. The rooted change actually let them use that high resist gear etc but it took too long for their style of play. See possible 3+ hour crawls vs. 10 minute log on. They batphone, a mass alarm sent to everyones cellphone alerting them a Dragon had spawned and was being pulled would que them to log in.

Dragons were pulled by the pull team the instant they popped. So it was a mixture of cheesing the zone and skilled play, although I have to be careful how I use the world skill because there is a counter argument here on the forums that EQ requires 0 (zero) skill to play. Its part of forum pwning.

You would think if the original developers for this era of EQ wanted their ultimate zone being pulled in such a way then they would have just put all the dragons near the zone in that can be single pulled/raided with no zone trash mobs to be annoying time sinks. Part of elite level play is bypassing all that to get the cookie. So the argument is one consisting of players remembering it being one way while the other group think it is a waste of time when they can get the good stuff in 10 minutes or less.

This....is.....spot....On.

That era was extremely boring for 95% of raiders. It's way more fun now crawling to a target even though it takes a lot more time. Petitions have plummeted because of it.

Let's be honest here, the raid scene is healthier than it's ever been. Every single quake there's a host of targets going down to "smaller" guilds. More guilds are in ToV now than ever before, even if they're only after one particular target. Guilds are actually speaking with other guilds and the atmosphere seems rather cordial. The petition questing and lawyer questing has all but been erased.

Stay Strong Nilbog and Rogean, you guys have done what needed to be done to cleanse the toxicity that existed previously.

[Ripqozko]

This....is.....spot....On.

That era was extremely boring for 95% of raiders. It's way more fun now crawling to a target even though it takes a lot more time. Petitions have plummeted because of it.

Let's be honest here, the raid scene is healthier than it's ever been. Every single quake there's a host of targets going down to "smaller" guilds. More guilds are in ToV now than ever before, even if they're only after one particular target. Guilds are actually speaking with other guilds and the atmosphere seems rather cordial. The petition questing and lawyer questing has all but been erased.

Stay Strong Nilbog and Rogean, you guys have done what needed to be done to cleanse the toxicity that existed previously.

No one's crawled in a long time , it's Coth up and clear couple flurries, kite rest and engage . Let's not act like anyone crawls every week. The meta is to do the least amount of trash still.

[reznor_]

I remember it well.

https://i.imgur.com/RQnnu3U.png

lol yep

[Tuljin]

Only read the first page or two because tears, but anyone else find it funny that some of the same people whining that clearing raid zones takes too long are the same people that stare at a wall for 16 hour windows or sit at the manastone camp for 60+ hours? These are also the same people whining about the recharge nerfs because they can't just fill their guild with auto-attacking warm bodies so much anymore. They hate that you might actually have to build a guild around people with working brains instead of those that just auto-engage and spam DPS because you can click your way to max aggro.

Yeah I find it hilarious too actually lol

Buncha coattail riders who camp green mobs for hours to get neckbeard funny money (DKP) then sit around and wait for the loot piñata

There are far too many mouths to feed on Green, there will be many many tears of disappointment from ~~~~~rAiDeRs~~~~~ come Kunark

[SantagarBrax]

Apologies Menden, I spoke too soon on the raid scene atmosphere.

Last raid ban: June 20 2019

No raid bans until now? How could this be? Did guilds truly work things out with each other? What has changed recently?

Oh....nvm.

[Hideousclaw]

Last raid ban: June 20 2019


The lead up to that ban was magical. What a fun time that was.

https://youtu.be/aIhsrDsRXh0

[Arvan]

They werent “skilled” or “good” they were just unemployed...

[Mblake81]

Congrats on posting reddit

While wearing my furry suit

[Hotel]

They werent “skilled” or “good” they were just unemployed...

speaking from someone who never attempted a dragon pull in tov

nice.

[Mblake81]

There are no heroes in Everquest

speaking from someone who never attempted a dragon pull in tov

nice.

https://i.imgur.com/CtVwBdV.gif

https://i.imgur.com/dgjFKH8.gif

[kjs86z]

I remember it well.

https://i.imgur.com/RQnnu3U.png

Hit it!

https://youtu.be/OdmDp8_l-3c

[Hyjalx]

Seriously though, it makes zero sense that we would promote 100+ man raids (rooted dragons) in favor of small guilds being able to actively compete for targets. (unrooted dragons).

North dragons need to just die in north wing and be done with it. The first 5-6 were pulled to zone in during Velious era. This isn't speculation.... this is fact. Anyone who actually played during this era knows it.

Why even argue it anymore?

[Hyjalx]

I also mean the zone out in west. Just because it was 20 years ago, doesn't mean we were all idiots.

We had some of the best monks that ever played this game on Bristlebane....

Shintaaro, Caleros, Paulia, Pouty, Vabtoo, Hieko, and I'm sure I'm missing others. To think we weren't pulling stuff around and bringing close proxmity dragons to zone in and zone out is just ignorant.

[remen]

Another important thing to note about the way things were on classic is that you didn't have 150 man zergs poopsocking every dragon spawn. There was time for a 60 person raid force to clear to a dragon without having to worry about getting leapfrogged. This was the case on the server I played on and the ones some of my good friends played on. Also, guilds generally waited til multiple dragons were up and would crawl from aary through kreizenn, for example.

[cd288]

I also mean the zone out in west. Just because it was 20 years ago, doesn't mean we were all idiots.

We had some of the best monks that ever played this game on Bristlebane....

Shintaaro, Caleros, Paulia, Pouty, Vabtoo, Hieko, and I'm sure I'm missing others. To think we weren't pulling stuff around and bringing close proxmity dragons to zone in and zone out is just ignorant.

Dude don’t you know we’re in a pandemic right now? Healthcare workers are completely slammed, so stop making us have to call the waaaambulance so much for you when they have more important things to be doing.

[Hotel]

Dude don’t you know we’re in a pandemic right now? Healthcare workers are completely slammed, so stop making us have to call the waaaambulance so much for you when they have more important things to be doing.

riot warmbody not pleased that you're breaking the narrative hyjal

if they unroot the dragons, what happens to carebear land

[loramin]

Seriously though, it makes zero sense that we would promote 100+ man raids (rooted dragons) in favor of small guilds being able to actively compete for targets. (unrooted dragons).

North dragons need to just die in north wing and be done with it. The first 5-6 were pulled to zone in during Velious era. This isn't speculation.... this is fact. Anyone who actually played during this era knows it.

Why even argue it anymore?

I feel like you're ignoring two basic facts.


pulling dragons to zone is unclasic*,
pulling dragons to zone is an exploit

To clarify that asterisk, yes: dragons 100% did get pulled to zone during Velious. No one contests that ... just like no one contests that rotations did happen on some servers during Velious, or that AoE groups happened (I know Fu people who did them in Sebilis during Kunark!)

But even so, the staff has been crystal clear (as recently as the newest patch thread) about the fact that this place is not just about classic mechanics: it's about classic experience. 25-mob limits never existed on live but having the limit is a million times more classic than Chardok being only for AoE groups and Overthere being only for AoE bards. AoE limits are "more classic" than the literal classic mechanic.

If you want to "prove" pulling dragons is classic, you can't just prove "it was possible": you have to demonstrate that most servers spent most of Velious pulling dragons. But even if you proved that ... it only solves #1! As long as the devs consider fighting dragons at ZL to be an exploit, you still have #2 ... and good luck with that, because Verant provided strong, strong evidence that even they considered it an exploit (by rooting the dragons shortly after the end of Velious).

So I 100% agree with you about what Fu did on Bristlebane. If I had any doubts, I have the numbers of multiple ex-Fu members in my phone, and I could call and ask them ... but that's not the issue. The issue is whether it's classic (in P99 terms), and whether it's an exploit.

[remen]

I feel like you're ignoring two basic facts.


pulling dragons to zone is unclasic*,




What is your response to 150+ person raids to kill 1 dragon not being classic? How would you fix this to restore a more classic feel to the server?

[Brocode]

I feel like you're ignoring two basic facts.


pulling dragons to zone is unclasic*,
pulling dragons to zone is an exploit

To clarify that asterisk, yes: dragons 100% did get pulled to zone during Velious. No one contests that ... just like no one contests that rotations did happen on some servers during Velious, or that AoE groups happened (I know Fu people who did them in Sebilis during Kunark!)

But even so, the staff has been crystal clear (as recently as the newest patch thread) about the fact that this place is not just about classic mechanics: it's about classic experience. 25-mob limits never existed on live but having the limit is a million times more classic than Chardok being only for AoE groups and Overthere being only for AoE bards. AoE limits are "more classic" than the literal classic mechanic.

If you want to "prove" pulling dragons is classic, you can't just prove "it was possible": you have to demonstrate that most servers spent most of Velious pulling dragons. But even if you proved that ... it only solves #1! As long as the devs consider fighting dragons at ZL to be an exploit, you still have #2 ... and good luck with that, because Verant provided strong, strong evidence that even they considered it an exploit (by rooting the dragons shortly after the end of Velious).

So I 100% agree with you about what Fu did on Bristlebane. If I had any doubts, I have the numbers of multiple ex-Fu members in my phone, and I could call and ask them ... but that's not the issue. The issue is whether it's classic (in P99 terms), and whether it's an exploit.

So what is it called when Riot does the same thing but instead of training dragon to zone in they just train all the adds, and kill 0 mobs and only the dragon, example Dagarn, train everything and just burn it down? Classic? :rolleyes:

[Hyjalx]

Poopsocking as we know it today didn't exist because there were scheduled patches every week. And yes, guilds DID leapfrog each other. By 6-7pm, there was 150 people in Aary pit on patch day.

Club Fu and Ring of Valor had to be separated many times and use to race to pull Aary and the lairs of Feshlak, Dagarn, Kriezenn and Kriezenn. So yes you did have to worry about getting leapfrogged, and nobody was waiting for dragons to pop. Variance didn't exist.

North dragons should stay in north, just like in classic. I am not arguing against that. But unrooting the dragons like it was on live decreases the need to have 50 extra warm bodies charge into guards and other drakes + the dragon all at the same time.

What we have now is just a different game, and is the entire reason why nobody will be seeing a Vulak anytime this decade unless a suspension happens. It caters to one massive zerg force and nobody else.

[Hyjalx]

It was never an exploit Loramin. No idea what you are talking about. Just because the staff here say it is, doesn't mean that's how it was.

So you want me to prove against 2 basic rules that never existed? ...

[Baler]

Just because the staff here say it is, doesn't mean that's how it was.

https://i.imgur.com/hpHsWVR.gif

[Hyjalx]

Dragons were going to zone in and zone out on Bristlebane all of Velious and even into Luclin. Not once did Shiften ban or suspend us for doing it. I mean, the evidence is in the pudding.... look how close 5-6 dragons are to their respective zone in's and zone outs.

Even if you didn't play during this era, its obvious.

[Baler]

Submit a bug report with all the evidence that's in said pudding.

Q18: Where can I deposit my tears?
A: As always, your tears and crying ... are important to us; for without you we couldn't possibly run things around here.

[Hyjalx]

No offense Baler, but did you watch your brother play during this era too?

And that is partly the issue. A lot of folks commenting were still learning how to wipe their own behinds during this era and not actually in raiding guilds and clearing Velious and ToV....

Really sad that the game is getting lost in its age.

[loramin]

It was never an exploit Loramin.

So Verant didn't root the dragons to prevent it on Live? C'mon, don't be disingenuous.

What is your response to 150+ person raids to kill 1 dragon not being classic? How would you fix this to restore a more classic feel to the server?

My response is that I don't know everything and don't claim to. Look, calling out an obvious unclassic exploit is shooting fish in a barrell: fixing a system to be better takes smart people with knowledge of that system ... and as I've freely admitted, I don't know the current raid scene.

But I do know this for sure: if you say "hey staff, ignore the upper left corner", it won't work. You will never make the server better doing that. But if you say, "hey staff, if you made ___ change it would make this place more classic" ... and you actually build consensus for that idea ... why wouldn't the staff adopt it?

[loramin]

did you watch your brother play during this era too?

I assume that's a dig at me, and no I did not watch my brother. I played other games at Matchplay, which was a computer gaming center where a core group of Club Fu (including Pouty) played back in the day.

But I mean, belittle me for not playing a particular computer game in 1999 all you want: it won't change the facts or convince the staff of anything.

[Daloon]

I just want to know how pathing got progressively worse over the years. Why do guilds need a GM present to do a damn Ring War when that was never the case prior. Server needs reverted a few years but not my box.

[Hyjalx]

I was talking to Baler because he said something along those lines as evidence in a previous post. You actually make sense most of the time, but I don't agree with your exploit claim.

And yes, I am well aware FU started in an internet cafe. I was one of few raid leaders of FU from Velious-PoP. Many vets of the time know this or I would get eviscerated commenting here.

I am simply just stating facts on how things were during this era.

[loramin]

I was talking to Baler because he said something along those lines as evidence in a previous post. You actually make sense most of the time, but I don't agree with your exploit claim.

And yes, I am well aware FU started in an internet cafe. I was one of few raid leaders of FU from Velious-PoP. Many vets of the time know this or I would get eviscerated commenting here.

I am simply just stating facts on how things were during this era.

Ah, apologies for getting defensive then.

As for the exploit thing ... how do you define exploit? Serious question.

Because personally I just can't come up with a reasonable definition that excludes "things Verant specifically patched the game to prevent" ... which is exactly what they did when they rooted the dragons in Luclin.

[cd288]

riot warmbody not pleased that you're breaking the narrative hyjal

if they unroot the dragons, what happens to carebear land

Lol I’m not part of Riot nor any other raiding guild. Just like watching the tears from people who want EZ mode

[Mblake81]

To clarify that asterisk, yes: dragons 100% did get pulled to zone during Velious. No one contests that ...

numerous screenshots and oldschool forum captures to prove it, also if anyone is curious send PM to Hyjal or Loramin for the wiki links.

[loramin]

numerous screenshots and oldschool forum captures to prove it, also if anyone is curious send PM to Hyjal or Loramin for the wiki links.

We could use a "controversially classic" page, with links to evidence one way or another ... anyone want to make one? :D

[Mblake81]

We could use a "controversially classic" page, with links to evidence one way or another ... anyone want to make one? :D

Oh, I thought you had it already with it all compiled. My bads

[loramin]

There's https://wiki.project1999.com/Non-Classic_Compendium but nothing for "gray" stuff .

[Mblake81]

There's https://wiki.project1999.com/Non-Classic_Compendium but nothing for "gray" stuff .

This is very unorganized, Frosty

[loramin]

This is a wiki for a reason. Anyone can contribute. If you see something that is inaccurate or can be improved, don't ask that it be fixed--just improve it.

;)

[Detoxx]

Verant rooted dragons due to being able to abuse ledges and certain areas to hide from aoes and still attack. Had nothing to do with pulling to zone in. At all.

[Hyjalx]

Honestly, nobody gave 2 shits that dragons were going to zone in/zone out on live. It was only the first 5-6 dragons due to PC power and proximity. Everything beyond Aary should stay in north anyway.

The only thing the staff cared about in ToV was if we were literally sitting in each others camps or deliberately training each other (alas, the aary pit fiascos between FU and RoV)

And honestly *pulling* to zone in is not an exploit Loramin. My definition of an exploit is like... trying to get Vox stuck in the door in king room so she doesn't AOE, or what Conquest did against to be the first guild to wake the sleeper.


We have been pulling mobs, XP, and named alike, to zone in's and zone out's that are in close proximity in every zone in this game since the beginning. And it's often that folks will use zone in's and zone out's when they XP, or pull for their Seb key or VP key. So if shit hits the fan, its not an hours long CR.

This is no different man. Innoruuk came to zone in during classic/kunark era often. And so does Emperor Crush. Pick a zone. Likely a named or something is often pulled with the zone in safety net being used.

The problem with ToV is that we allow Vulak and the deeper mobs to come to zone in.
PC power was the main reason why this wasn't happening back in the day, and we should have been simulating it from the start. They should still be unrooted regardless.

Everything beyond Aary needs to just die in north.

[loramin]

Verant rooted dragons due to being able to abuse ledges and certain areas to hide from aoes and still attack. Had nothing to do with pulling to zone in. At all.

Honestly, nobody gave 2 shits that dragons were going to zone in/zone out on live. It was only the first 5-6 dragons due to PC power and proximity. Everything beyond Aary should stay in north anyway.

You're both welcome to continue making this the hill you die on ... or you could both accept that the staff is unlikely to change their mind, and devote your energies to improving the raid scene in other ways.

It seems pretty clear those are your options at this point.

[magnetaress]

You're both welcome to continue making this the hill you die on ... or you could both accept that the staff is unlikely to change their mind, and devote your energies to improving the raid scene in other ways.

It seems pretty clear those are your options at this point.

You're asking a lot. I agree though. And you should definitely ask.

[matticas]

...But if you say, "hey staff, if you made ___ change it would make this place more classic" ... and you actually build consensus for that idea ... why wouldn't the staff adopt it?

Ok, worth a shot: "hey staff, if you made the unrooted dragons change it would make this place more classic. There is plenty of consensus for that idea, so why wouldn't you adopt it?"

Did I do it right?

[loramin]

Ok, worth a shot: "hey staff, if you made the unrooted dragons change it would make this place more classic. There is plenty of consensus for that idea, so why wouldn't you adopt it?"

Did I do it right?

https://i.imgur.com/63IeEhY.gif

[kaizersoze]

Ok, worth a shot: "hey staff, if you made the unrooted dragons change it would make this place more classic. There is plenty of consensus for that idea, so why wouldn't you adopt it?"

Did I do it right?

Renamed Guild cant raid right now anyway (and probably until the 25th because we all know Monrezz and playbook showed people how to do the model deletes and who knows how many RNG were caught in this lets be reals) Unrooted dragons do not effect you.