Wiz Underrated

[Hazek]

TR in Crushbone is an example of typical chain pulling speed all the way up to 50. Places like Solb royals and fear have about the same tempo of mobs.

I can sustain one nuke per mob at minimum and do about 30%. See screenshots:

https://i.imgur.com/1js1KoH.png

https://i.imgur.com/AphP3pY.png

100% / 5 DPS classes is 20%. That means in order to be on par with other DPS you need to at least do 20% damage per mob.

So as a wizard i'm already more efficient than the other DPS in my group even without clarity or higher DPM spells. Not to mention quad AOE's that I havn't been able to test yet.

So don't just reject all wizards from your group. They can be one of the best DPS if they know how to nuke at the right time, stay medding, while ducking overnukes.

The only time they suck is if the player sucks. From what i've seen so far anyway.

[Swish]

"OOM, brb"

*looks at Netflix*

(no activity for ~3 mins)

[Cen]

Wizards are incredible man

[Hazek]

"OOM, brb"

*looks at Netflix*

(no activity for ~3 mins)

Yeah that's a typical wiz. But so far i've been nuking once per mob and actually gaining mana over time. With C and higher lvls spells will be even better.

[Swish]

If more were like that I'd have them in any group I make. Same for necros who charm pets and feed mana/health.

[radbeard]

So a lvl 39 wizard uses Lightning Shock (383dmg) in a group kill kobolds in solb (1575 hp). Thats 24% of their hp for 162 mana (180 base - 10% evocation specialization) . At this point they are regenerating 16 mana/tick. So approximately every 60 seconds a wizard can do 24% dmg to a lvl 35 mob. Higher level mobs bringing lower % and higher resist chance. Without clarity or anything to boost this is only a little over 6 dps sustained. Which is pretty bad. But i guess you would need to think about how many mobs you're killing before repops in your particular camp to determine how many casts per mob you can afford. They can also pretty quickly delete a dangerous add. They just seem a lot more finicky about when they are a good choice.

That said I would always invite one because I secretly want to have a wizard so I want them to be successful.

[Cen]

Yeah that's a typical wiz. But so far i've been nuking once per mob and actually gaining mana over time. With C and higher lvls spells will be even better.

You are doing it right.

The worst Wizard I ever played with was in Highkeep two weeks ago. I forgot his name though, but he had a manastone, and would instantly nuke on pull like 3-4 times with his lightning nuke with the 0.0 stun component, manastone his HP bar down low, ask not to be healed, then die multiple times. He was really incredibly bad.

A real Wizard is one who knows that he is a true Artillery piece that doesn't act as a footman to take a hill like a sustained DPS. He acts as a supremely improved form of CC - to hold a reserve capable of erasing threats when they happen, and going easy nukes at midrange/lowHP when they don't. When you play a Wizard well, people also notice eventually but it takes a few disasters erased. Good wizards aren't asleep at the keyboard. They blow a hole in the wall at the right time.

[Swish]

So a lvl 39 wizard uses Lightning Shock (383dmg) in a group kill kobolds in solb (1575 hp). Thats 24% of their hp for 162 mana (180 base - 10% evocation specialization) . At this point they are regenerating 16 mana/tick. So approximately every 60 seconds a wizard can do 24% dmg to a lvl 35 mob. Higher level mobs bringing lower % and higher resist chance. Without clarity or anything to boost this is only a little over 6 dps sustained. Which is pretty bad. But i guess you would need to think about how many mobs you're killing before repops in your particular camp to determine how many casts per mob you can afford. They can also pretty quickly delete a dangerous add. They just seem a lot more finicky about when they are a good choice.

That said I would always invite one because I secretly want to have a wizard so I want them to be successful.

Good luck warriors/monks handling that every pull :p

[Elrood]

Wouldn't the smart wizard just wait until the mob is at 25% or so then nuke it?

[Hazek]

Wouldn't the smart wizard just wait until the mob is at 25% or so then nuke it?

Yes but its about 50%. The optimal time to nuke is when you can get it to a sliver without going over. So if you pull agro it dies immediately but nothing is wasted.

Now if you have slow pulls and you're at 95% mana with a good hybrid then you can nuke twice at 75% or whatever to keep your regen going.

But you also wanna keep your mana high in case of an overpull. So if you're at half mana then you should only be nuking once per mob so you can catch up in case you need to dump it all in an emergency.

[Hazek]

So a lvl 39 wizard uses Lightning Shock (383dmg) in a group kill kobolds in solb (1575 hp). Thats 24% of their hp for 162 mana (180 base - 10% evocation specialization) . At this point they are regenerating 16 mana/tick. So approximately every 60 seconds a wizard can do 24% dmg to a lvl 35 mob. Higher level mobs bringing lower % and higher resist chance. Without clarity or anything to boost this is only a little over 6 dps sustained. Which is pretty bad. But i guess you would need to think about how many mobs you're killing before repops in your particular camp to determine how many casts per mob you can afford. They can also pretty quickly delete a dangerous add. They just seem a lot more finicky about when they are a good choice.

That said I would always invite one because I secretly want to have a wizard so I want them to be successful.

Your math seems right but but I feel like something is off and a few things come to mind:

1. Any time you can med for over 60 seconds without a mob it creates a buffer to help balance it out. Seems like a long time but still possible even in places like royals.

2. Right now I can nuke once per mob with "chain pulls". And since higher level spells have better DPM then it should only get better unless the damage versus mob HP ratio gets worse, which may be the case.

3. Almost all high lvl groups will have enchanter, but not every time of course.

4. For now, my damage outperforms everyone in the group. But we'll see later on.

[Christina.]

Wizards aren't underrated, people just don't like playing them because they can't solo like nec, enc, mag and shaman... Wizards have always been pro DPS. Especially at low levels, they will always parse high. "Xp leechers" who play wizards are the ones who give them a bad wrap. You'll definitely notice when a decent wizard is in your group much less a good wizard, cause they're blowing shit up lol.

[magnetaress]

Wizards aren't underrated, people just don't like playing them because they can't solo like nec, enc, mag and shaman... Wizards have always been pro DPS. Especially at low levels, they will always parse high. "Xp leechers" who play wizards are the ones who give them a bad wrap. You'll definitely notice when a decent wizard is in your group much less a good wizard, cause they're blowing shit up lol.

^

[Nightbear]

W I Z A R D S! SOLMN!

[Hazek]

W I Z A R D S! SOLMN!

You inspired me.

[Hazek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSmRCbjmjno

[Picked]

Wizards aren't underrated, people just don't like playing them because they can't solo like nec, enc, mag and shaman... Wizards have always been pro DPS. Especially at low levels, they will always parse high. "Xp leechers" who play wizards are the ones who give them a bad wrap. You'll definitely notice when a decent wizard is in your group much less a good wizard, cause they're blowing shit up lol.

Since when can't wizards solo? I solo all the time. Much more effectively than group exp actually. Was rolling through a level every 2-3 hours in highkeep. Holding down anywhere from 3-5 guard spawns at a time. Not to mention quadding? I'll admit up until about level 34 they aren't quite as efficient but once you get up there the spells become even stronger and more efficient.

I like grouping, and enjoy it. But when I can't find groups I often solo. Wizards are very capable of soloing. Maybe not quite as efficient as a necro, or even a mage. But very close, and when you factor in quadding there isn't many classes that can match a wizards ability to solo for exp.

I did sisters camp I think at 16 and have always had places to solo ever since when groups aren't available.

Not that this post was needed but it is definitely true, wizards are very underrated. It's a shame some bad ones give us all bad raps. Especially when an Enchanter is in group with Clarity. That basically doubles a wizards dps if not more.

[Christina.]

I have a wizard, a mage, a necro and enchanter :)
I think I know a teeeeny bit hehe . . . . . . . . .

[kaev]

A wizard once failed an attempted KS vs my solo paladin in Crushbone. I think he may have died of shame and embarrassment afterwards.

or maybe he rerolled as a ranger thinking nobody would notice or care about him then, not sure

[Tuljin]

Most people have never played with a good Wizard before and like any class in EQ its a great class in the hands of a good player.

Many people think DPS DPS DPS on Wizard which of course is true, but there are a couple more very key abilities that Wizard gets that make it excellent in groups (besides the obvious Evac) - stun, snare, and interrupt nuke. Also Flux Staff for tagging.

Stun is an incredibly powerful spell that Wizard doesn't get until 20, and later on you can load two stuns in your bar at the same time. You can stun out Enchanters charmed pets and also stun out caster mobs. Classic especially is full of very difficult and dangerous caster mobs. You can also use it to stun fleeing mobs until you get Snare.

You can also use Stun and Flux Staff to pull caster mobs very well with "ghetto CC" of rooting out of LoS. Flux Staff is good for tagging pathers but also an essential global cooldown clicky. You can stun, clicky, root, pop out of LoS. With the abundance of resist gear for Wizard you can stand up to caster mobs very well. Eventually at 58 Wizard gets Fetter which is an incredibly OP root.

A highly underrated spell line for Wizard that most people don't know about because most people don't really "play" a wizard is the Interrupt Nuke line. If you aren't exclusively dropping interrupt nukes on a caster mob you're "doing it wrong." Really magic based nukes don't resist appreciably more than elemental nukes. A very high Blue will get lots of resists despite whether the nuke is magic based or elemental. A nice level Blue mob will not resist magic nukes appreciably more than elemental and you get the incredible added bonus of spell neutralization. Then clicky staff and drop a stun because a caster mob will instantly begin to cast again after a 0 second interrupt stun. For melee mobs obviously drop elemental spells all the time.

If you really want to talk about damage percentage from a Wizard, once you get snare your group gets 20% damage per mob mana free. At that point what you do is snare the mob then time your nuke so he's nuked down to 20% and immediately begins to flee. You are effectively now doing near 50% damage to the mob and saving your healer inordinate amounts of mana from damage-free DPS. This amount of mana saved goes far beyond the "paper napkin" arithmetic of EQ nerds. Its a ton. If people in your group are going to complain about how inconvenient it is that snare and root don't stack they need to go play another game. Its really not that hard to coordinate.

In Kunark this scales back a bit, but for example against frogs in Sebilis you can Draught of Jiva a snared Shaman mob from 30something percent down to 20%, they skip their heal and the go right into snared fleeing. Its a tremendous help. There are also some nasty casters in The Hole that Wizards deal with very nicely. On Blue I got much of my experience in 50s in groups with great friends in non-traditional group compositions and I would always pull, CC, and be on point. I also always have the Enchanter's (or sometimes Druid's) back on pet charm breaks. Not "nuke, Netflix, repeat." You definitely need to be a good player among good players to make this happen though, which is tough to find in the age of ~~~~~~~~~rAiDiNg~~~~~~~~~~ and investing in DKP instead of coin.

So yeah, Wizard is really good and especially in Classic they are very powerful from a raw DPS standpoint against XP mobs. Yes, "a Wizard can't solo like an Enchanter or Shaman," but no other class can solo like an Enchanter or Shaman lol. Wiz can solo for XP but not for farming phats and thats fine.

I'm not one to "share secrets" but I've been banging this drum for so long nobody "listens" or elects to group on a Wizard anyways so it doesn't matter lol. Solmn I hope you're enjoying your Squallsurge Shawl =)

[Hazek]

Most people have never played with a good Wizard before and like any class in EQ its a great class in the hands of a good player.

Many people think DPS DPS DPS on Wizard which of course is true, but there are a couple more very key abilities that Wizard gets that make it excellent in groups (besides the obvious Evac) - stun, snare, and interrupt nuke. Also Flux Staff for tagging.

Stun is an incredibly powerful spell that Wizard doesn't get until 20, and later on you can load two stuns in your bar at the same time. You can stun out Enchanters charmed pets and also stun out caster mobs. Classic especially is full of very difficult and dangerous caster mobs. You can also use it to stun fleeing mobs until you get Snare.

You can also use Stun and Flux Staff to pull caster mobs very well with "ghetto CC" of rooting out of LoS. Flux Staff is good for tagging pathers but also an essential global cooldown clicky. You can stun, clicky, root, pop out of LoS. With the abundance of resist gear for Wizard you can stand up to caster mobs very well. Eventually at 58 Wizard gets Fetter which is an incredibly OP root.

A highly underrated spell line for Wizard that most people don't know about because most people don't really "play" a wizard is the Interrupt Nuke line. If you aren't exclusively dropping interrupt nukes on a caster mob you're "doing it wrong." Really magic based nukes don't resist appreciably more than elemental nukes. A very high Blue will get lots of resists despite whether the nuke is magic based or elemental. A nice level Blue mob will not resist magic nukes appreciably more than elemental and you get the incredible added bonus of spell neutralization. Then clicky staff and drop a stun because a caster mob will instantly begin to cast again after a 0 second interrupt stun. For melee mobs obviously drop elemental spells all the time.

If you really want to talk about damage percentage from a Wizard, once you get snare your group gets 20% damage per mob mana free. At that point what you do is snare the mob then time your nuke so he's nuked down to 20% and immediately begins to flee. You are effectively now doing near 50% damage to the mob and saving your healer inordinate amounts of mana from damage-free DPS. This amount of mana saved goes far beyond the "paper napkin" arithmetic of EQ nerds. Its a ton. If people in your group are going to complain about how inconvenient it is that snare and root don't stack they need to go play another game. Its really not that hard to coordinate.

In Kunark this scales back a bit, but for example against frogs in Sebilis you can Draught of Jiva a snared Shaman mob from 30something percent down to 20%, they skip their heal and the go right into snared fleeing. Its a tremendous help. There are also some nasty casters in The Hole that Wizards deal with very nicely. On Blue I got much of my experience in 50s in groups with great friends in non-traditional group compositions and I would always pull, CC, and be on point. I also always have the Enchanter's (or sometimes Druid's) back on pet charm breaks. Not "nuke, Netflix, repeat." You definitely need to be a good player among good players to make this happen though, which is tough to find in the age of ~~~~~~~~~rAiDiNg~~~~~~~~~~ and investing in DKP instead of coin.

So yeah, Wizard is really good and especially in Classic they are very powerful from a raw DPS standpoint against XP mobs. Yes, "a Wizard can't solo like an Enchanter or Shaman," but no other class can solo like an Enchanter or Shaman lol. Wiz can solo for XP but not for farming phats and thats fine.

I'm not one to "share secrets" but I've been banging this drum for so long nobody "listens" or elects to group on a Wizard anyways so it doesn't matter lol. Solmn I hope you're enjoying your Squallsurge Shawl =)

Good read. I agree that nuking mobs to the flee threshold is a big advantage.

And yeah i'm lovin the shawl thanks for selling it to me at a good price. People always say that casters don't need gear, and that's somewhat true, but having a huge mana pool let me solo yellow mobs that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to.

[Danth]

The only time they suck is if the player sucks. From what i've seen so far anyway.

I agree in principle. Trouble is, this class has long since been culturally accepted as the lazy man and/or stoner class of P1999. It attracts unmotivated coattail-riders like flies to flytraps. It's unfortunate. I've long since become sick of Wizards who blaze away on a couple of monsters then go AFK for 10 or 15 minutes at a time. No, it's not the class's fault, but when practically all of them I group with over a period of years behave that way, eventually I start wanting nothing to do with it. In ten-plus years here I've known maybe four* who were worth anything. For quite some time I've restricted myself to only inviting Wizards when I know the player in advance, with good results. The class really can give good service when played by a player who wants to do so.

Danth

*Meaning random wizard-mains I ran into in-game, not folks I already knew elsewhere playing Wizard alts.

[Picked]

I have a wizard, a mage, a necro and enchanter :)
I think I know a teeeeny bit hehe . . . . . . . . .

I cannot speak to your skills as a Wizard or Enchanter, or whatever class you want to use in this argument, I'm sure you're great. But just because someone plays a class does not mean they are good at it or know how to play it well. I've grouped with Enchanters Wizards necros mages who don't know anything and manage to get max level.

Necro and Enchanter can solo things a Wizard cannot. That is obvious. But a Wizard can kill and exp very efficiently solo. They may not be able to crawl into Efreeti camp and hold it, or FD in the Frenzy room and hold it. But Wizards are very capable soloers and can gain exp plenty fast enough to be considered a viable option as a soloer. In many cases I out leveled many players who are twinked out and have all the group connections from previous characters and guilds

I would rather play a Wizard that has solo capabilities than a Ranger or Rogue that doesn't have much soloing capabilities if any. That way when I can't find a group I can go find something to exp on.

[Baler]

Wizard is very strong in classic and kunark :)
wizard is arguably the worst class in velious. :(

[Picked]

Wizard is very strong in classic and kunark :)
wizard is arguably the worst class in velious. :(

Yeah, Primal weapons and gear changed a lot in Velious. EQ did a good job of bringing certain classes to the forefront at certain times during different expansions. When I played on live Wizards were a bit of a struggle through Velious and Luclin. So many hps on the mobs in Luclin. Then in PoP they got a bit of a boost, but still behind Rogues.

I remember being on top of a lot of parses in my guild in GoD, Omens of War, and DoN. So it varied a lot. Of course that doesn't matter here with Classic, Kunark, and Velious only. But in all the expansions wizards were good dps in groups. Just depends on how they are played and the support classes around them.

I would suggest that if you are going heavy melee dps you get a shaman and if caster get enchanter. Cater to them and you will see a huge difference.

[NPC]

Since when can't wizards solo? I solo all the time. Much more effectively than group exp actually. Was rolling through a level every 2-3 hours in highkeep. Holding down anywhere from 3-5 guard spawns at a time. Not to mention quadding? I'll admit up until about level 34 they aren't quite as efficient but once you get up there the spells become even stronger and more efficient.

I like grouping, and enjoy it. But when I can't find groups I often solo. Wizards are very capable of soloing. Maybe not quite as efficient as a necro, or even a mage. But very close, and when you factor in quadding there isn't many classes that can match a wizards ability to solo for exp.


Wizards can start quadding at like 8th level ( column of frost, almost 4dmg/1mana), right now Im quadding at 21st level using pillar of fire (4dmg/1mana ratio). Im getting about 8 percent a quad, thats more efficient than any class even near that level, you just stay away from the alkabor line of AoE DD. You want to use the columns an pillars lines, they are super efficient. You can quad up to 60th level pretty easily, at 57th level wiz get quad spell thats 11 dmg/ per 1 mana ratio. No class can touch that, wizards cant solo like a necro or a shaman, but necro an shaman cant solo like a wizard.

[Christina.]

Wizards are good, is my point. they just aren't the "cookie cutter " class everyone goes for when a new server opens up. I'm pro wizard, my comment in this thread was siding with wizards not against them if you read back. 1+ for the wizzys! I'm on your side.

[Hazek]

I would suggest that if you are going heavy melee dps you get a shaman and if caster get enchanter. Cater to them and you will see a huge difference.

Yeah I can't wait to try a group with C + bard (1x lute heal 3x mana twisting during downtime) + manastone. Assuming I could find a competent bard who does that.

[magnetaress]

I had tons of fun in luclin + also mana burning old content

[magnetaress]

At level 1 I started with 300 mana and I was able to sustain 5.454545454545455‬ damage per second with just my starter spell for a very long time, like 3 minutes.

I guarantee a rogue or warrior cant sustain that much dps at lvl 1

just so u people know how fuckingpowerful a wizard is right out of the gate

[Nirgon]

Wizard is very strong in classic and kunark :)
wizard is arguably the worst class in velious. :(

A wizard named Porlo might have created a reason to disagree with you in many cases

[ChooChoo Train]

The difference in DPM per nuke for a 16 mage and 16 wizard is Negligible and the mage gets a badass pet too.

[magnetaress]

The difference in DPM per nuke for a 16 mage and 16 wizard is Negligible and the mage gets a badass pet too.

Come pvp me. I guarantee ur pet gets lost. Trains mobs on u (after I gate). Gets rooted. And all ur dumb really slow casting nukes get interrupt n resist.

I guarantee u won't even be able to gate.

[ChooChoo Train]

Lol, OP referenced the throne room of CB on a PbE server

[Hazek]

Lol, OP referenced the throne room of CB on a PbE server

Yeah because its an example of chain pulls while still having the ability to nuke once per mob even without C, higher DPM spells, a bard, or manastone. The fact that its lower level without those bonuses only enhances the argument.

My wiz is only 18 atm and I was just surprised at how well it was performing already.

[magnetaress]

Wizards only improve from level 1. & at lvl 1 they already have the capability to delete mobs & other players. No one else can do this with a wizards speed, reliability, or consistency. OP is tracking like an 8 track.

[Christina.]

Come pvp me. I guarantee ur pet gets lost. Trains mobs on u (after I gate). Gets rooted. And all ur dumb really slow casting nukes get interrupt n resist.

I guarantee u won't even be able to gate.

Off subject or server lmao but I'm going to come pay you a visit when I'm able to play again to see just how WELL you confront a mage :mad::cool:

[magnetaress]

Off subject or server lmao but I'm going to come pay you a visit when I'm able to play again to see just how WELL you confront a mage :mad::cool:

The last time I fought a mage was in innothule swamp and they gated like 5 x

right now lvl 4 in toxx forust un-anon

have not bought any pumice yet so u would probably get me

[Christina.]

The last time I fought a mage was in innothule swamp and they gated like 5 x

right now lvl 4 in toxx forust un-anon

have not bought any pumice yet so u would probably get me

Oh you retired the necro and rolled a wizard?

[magnetaress]

Oh you retired the necro and rolled a wizard?

Aurielaneth

a much better name

yessss

I am a real wizard :P

Always have been.

I just took my guise off

to be fare lillia still hanging out with her green robe and some guk loots, not sure, if, and when, i'll pick her up again, prob to help the wiz with some quests

[Christina.]

Nice :)

[xpolkx]

50 Wiz here, it really depends on the speed of the mobs dying. If mobs are dying too fast you won't be able to sustain 1 nuke per mob, if they die too slow a pet class would be better. Also something to note is that you aren't effective against mobs white con+ or with high MR. Wizards are great as insurance for your group, on a bad pull there aren't other classes that can delete a mob as quick as a fm wizard. Also root is great CC, would argue wizard is 2nd highest dps with root, charm enchanter being 1st.

[Muggens]

Good thread! Wizards are kewl

[turbosilk]

50 Wiz here, it really depends on the speed of the mobs dying. If mobs are dying too fast you won't be able to sustain 1 nuke per mob, if they die too slow a pet class would be better. Also something to note is that you aren't effective against mobs white con+ or with high MR. Wizards are great as insurance for your group, on a bad pull there aren't other classes that can delete a mob as quick as a fm wizard. Also root is great CC, would argue wizard is 2nd highest dps with root, charm enchanter being 1st.

If only wizards have alternative fire or ice nukes for high MR mobs