Wezards

[Kanuvan]

I must say...they all but dont exist anymore, the metagaming is strong on P99 green server

[drackgon]

Wizards are amazing. Their still a solid dmg class totally with Ice comet. Also Guilds need Wizards for PoH:)

[turbosilk]

Raid wizards are crazy valuable through all Kunark content.

[magnetaress]

wizards are gr8, I don't like grps without less then 3 wizards, get 3 wizards and mobs wont cast or gate or ch themselves, ever

[Vaarsuvius]

wizards are gr8, I don't like grps without less then 3 wizards, get 3 wizards and mobs wont cast or gate or ch themselves, ever

This is also true of Magicians. Ever seen a mob dealing with 3 air pets channel a spell ? hahaha, no way !

[magnetaress]

This is also true of Magicians. Ever seen a mob dealing with 3 air pets channel a spell ? hahaha, no way !

trueeee

but wizards are so cool

[Izmael]

Wizards are like mages except they don't have a pet. :p

[magnetaress]

later on they get cool sword things

and they always have eyeballs

[Xersius]

I just rolled one. 12 years gone and I'm frost bolting my way to success

[El-Hefe]

I dunno if it’s metagaming run amuck if it’s one class that generally gets excluded.

I like to be cool to Wizards where I can and group with them when possible, but I generally wouldn’t recommend playing one to someone who asks my opinion. Just like I wouldn’t recommend Dark Elf Warrior, a Gnome Cleric or an Bertox worshipping Enchanter.

[magnetaress]

I just remember Wiz was my first 50 & 60. I was a terrible Wiz too. I remember begging for the sun strike spell from my friends that were allowed to raid lol. Yah. I was that wizkid.

It was posts like this that encouraged me to try harder n keep playing Wiz.

Only so many have had time to gear a Wiz and get those great quad spots. I probably wouldn't main Wiz till 51, and also just log out at the good solo camps n play another toon if they are already taken. Wiz r kind of. Camp specific.

[Zal22]

I just remember Wiz was my first 50 & 60. I was a terrible Wiz too. I remember begging for the sun strike spell from my friends that were allowed to raid lol. Yah. I was that wizkid.

It was posts like this that encouraged me to try harder n keep playing Wiz.

Only so many have had time to gear a Wiz and get those great quad spots. I probably wouldn't main Wiz till 51, and also just log out at the good solo camps n play another toon if they are already taken. Wiz r kind of. Camp specific.

You sound like something from red.

P.s Go back to red.

[Philistine]

I've only ever grouped regularly with two. One was awesome: very attentive in combat and and active in group chat so you were confident he was there. He'd burn stuff down whenever things got hairy. The other was trying to fulfill the wizard stereotype I think, and would go several mobs without casting then nuke once or twice and proclaim himself oom. Was an interesting experience, and made timing pulls tricky as I never knew when he was going to nuke the snot out of something :p

[DisbeAsos]

We exist, most Wizards stay /anon or /role though so they aren't bugged for ports all the time...

[Swish]

Wizards are great on red, and everyone should have one eventually on blue.

[Vollsung84]

Just tonight when I /ooc'd to LFG. I nearly instantly got a tell saying. "You should just give up now, your a wizard and no one will invite you to group." The person in question was a 37 Wiz themselves, so maybe this kind of demoralizing attitude (even to other wizards) could be why we don't see as many Wizards ans we should.

[Swish]

A good wizard can save a wipe, problem is the Netflix wizard crew is strong on p99

[Benanov]

Just tonight when I /ooc'd to LFG. I nearly instantly got a tell saying. "You should just give up now, your a wizard and no one will invite you to group." The person in question was a 37 Wiz themselves, so maybe this kind of demoralizing attitude (even to other wizards) could be why we don't see as many Wizards ans we should.

It's a hard class. Opportunities for groups are limited, as are opportunities for revenge.

Just Remember this young wizards:

For you, sir? All Portals Lead to Toxxulia.

[Ravilla]

I started my wiz about a week ago. Currently level 12, but man it is rough in classic.

[Picked]

I recently got back into p99 and started fresh on Green server about 3 weeks ago, I've always played a Wizard. I am currently level 39, haven't been pushing as hard as I can to level but I've been on a grind so to speak to get to 50 and catch up.

Wizards are tricky, they can either be a huge waste of time exp and group space or they can be amazing. They can help CC (which I usually don't) if it comes to that I tend to take a mob myself and just burn it down. It's risky, but if circumstances dictate that I root then they are pretty dire circumstances. Most of the content I am grouped up on I can solo fairly efficiently. So taking a mob and burning it and eliminating it entirely is just as good as CC.

Good wizards keep some in the tank at all times regardless what happens. No class is more worthless than a Wizard that is oom. I have saved groups from wiping just by being able to burn down a caster, or a healer, or just any mob that is loose on a healer.

They are just like any class in old school EQ. When played right they are very beneficial and very useful, when they aren't they are dead weight. I am coming up through the ranks and see a lot of other wizards doing the same. They aren't easy starting out with no gear. They are much more efficient when they are twinked. So that's probably why there isn't many of them at the top right now. That being said a good wizard player can play basically naked, with minimal gear all the way up to 50.

[mai.cj]

Just like I wouldn’t recommend Dark Elf Warrior, a Gnome Cleric or an Bertox worshipping Enchanter.

Why not? (Genuine question.)

[mai.cj]

Only so many have had time to gear a Wiz

I thought casters in EQ were not very gear dependent. Are wizards different?

[magnetaress]

I thought casters in EQ were not very gear dependent. Are wizards different?

Sort of, they are probably the most gear dependent caster. I mean, a naked erudite or DE wiz is still pretty fierce.

Still. Clicky stuff makes a wiz more godlike, especially outdoors. Jboots, staff of temperate flux, solists icy wand, clicky nuke robe.. etc.

Lots of peridots, eventually the elite epic.

Now. Having some decent AC/hp in the early levels makes a huge difference on a wizard too as they pretty much just die as soon as they are OOM.

[magnetaress]

Additionally, and I am making this a separate post for a reason. As a lvl 43 necro... there are mobs I am soloing, where I wish I was a wizard, I would destroy these mobs, they live in a high ZeM zone with a 6 minute timer. This would be so much easier as a wizard. I would never die. Sometimes my necro dies because there isn't proper room to fear kite, or line of site issues. Or I just get owned by spell dmg.

[ldgo86]

Additionally, and I am making this a separate post for a reason. As a lvl 43 necro... there are mobs I am soloing, where I wish I was a wizard, I would destroy these mobs, they live in a high ZeM zone with a 6 minute timer. This would be so much easier as a wizard. I would never die. Sometimes my necro dies because there isn't proper room to fear kite, or line of site issues. Or I just get owned by spell dmg.

Tell me more about these mobs in a high ZeM zone on a 6 minute timer

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I recently got back into p99 and started fresh on Green server about 3 weeks ago, I've always played a Wizard. I am currently level 39, haven't been pushing as hard as I can to level but I've been on a grind so to speak to get to 50 and catch up.

Wizards are tricky, they can either be a huge waste of time exp and group space or they can be amazing. They can help CC (which I usually don't) if it comes to that I tend to take a mob myself and just burn it down. It's risky, but if circumstances dictate that I root then they are pretty dire circumstances. Most of the content I am grouped up on I can solo fairly efficiently. So taking a mob and burning it and eliminating it entirely is just as good as CC.

Good wizards keep some in the tank at all times regardless what happens. No class is more worthless than a Wizard that is oom. I have saved groups from wiping just by being able to burn down a caster, or a healer, or just any mob that is loose on a healer.

They are just like any class in old school EQ. When played right they are very beneficial and very useful, when they aren't they are dead weight. I am coming up through the ranks and see a lot of other wizards doing the same. They aren't easy starting out with no gear. They are much more efficient when they are twinked. So that's probably why there isn't many of them at the top right now. That being said a good wizard player can play basically naked, with minimal gear all the way up to 50.

Slash thread

[Secrets]

Rogues are better in every way.

[magnetaress]

No one wants to argue with you. Stop trying to pick a fight.

Rogues are pretty awesome. They aren't wizards though.

[Taiku]

Wizards are mages that can't summon fireworks

[Uuruk]

Raid wizards are crazy valuable through all Kunark content.

Why?

[magnetaress]

Why?

It's nice to watch stuff die instantly. Every wizard probably = 3 clerics in mana bars spent to kill a mob.

[Uuruk]

It's nice to watch stuff die instantly. Every wizard probably = 3 clerics in mana bars spent to kill a mob.

Or just have rogues blow the mob up instantly and be one of the best classes instead of the worst.

[Izmael]

Why?

Because Kunark mobs = 32k max HP and often impractical to fight for a long time - Trak, VS, Gore, Hoshkar...

It's always nice to burn these guys down ASAP, and this is exactly where Wizards shine.

[El-Hefe]

Why not? (Genuine question.)

Because Dark Elf Warriors and Gnome Clerics have the worst stats for their respective classes. You and everyone you group with will be playing with a steep disadvantage for literally hundreds of hours.

Bertox Enchanters have one of their main advantages (the ability to use illusions to access all towns) completely stripped away because instead of going agnostic or at very least a neutral god, they picked the most hated god in Norrath.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Because Dark Elf Warriors and Gnome Clerics have the worst stats for their respective classes. You and everyone you group with will be playing with a steep disadvantage for literally hundreds of hours.

Bertox Enchanters have one of their main advantages (the ability to use illusions to access all towns) completely stripped away because instead of going agnostic or at very least a neutral god, they picked the most hated god in Norrath.

To be fair the server population is still so high that group composition (most of the time) doesn't really matter. Your biggest bottleneck (again, most of the time) is mob availability. So it doesn't really matter if you have a DE Warrior tanking AND a Gnomish Cleric healing him - you'll have plenty of time to recover before your 5-to-6-mob camp repops.

This is kinda the same argument I make for Wizards during Classic and likely Kunark as well. Your group is gonna be so heavily mob-limited that your Wizard will almost always have enough mana to contribute his/her "sufficient weight" to the group's gameplay. (ESPECIALLY once you're in the 30s and Clarity is present in almost every group)

Couldn't agree more on the non-agnostic-thing Enchanter, though. Other than reasons of roleplaying there's literally NO reason not to roll agnostic as a Chanter.

[Uuruk]

Because Kunark mobs = 32k max HP and often impractical to fight for a long time - Trak, VS, Gore, Hoshkar...

It's always nice to burn these guys down ASAP, and this is exactly where Wizards shine.
Ok, so rogues are better. Thank you.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Ok, so rogues are better. Thank you.

Not even CLOSE when it comes to VP raids. You want a solid 8+ level 60 Wizards to burn the mob down ASAP. Indeed WITHOUT those Wizards your precious Rogues are gonna die to the AOEs before the mob does.

Even in FULL NTOV GEAR tanks, and all other melees, will eventually die to the AOEs of several VP bosses. I don't remember ever failing to kill a VP Boss when our Guild had all of our raiding Wizards present. And I can't even count how many VP Bosses wiped us when our Wizards were NOT present! (Now alot of this is due to the "racing" style of raiding on Blue99 where you were effectively forced to start pulling a mob as soon as it spawned but this will only be even more accurate on Green99 when people are limited to in-era equipment)

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Now I haven't raided on Blue in a couple years, but back when I did:

I'd go so far as to say that, even with people Velious-geared, VP raids felt more "exciting" than the vast majority of NTOV raid bosses. Ironically it seemed like VP Bosses had a greater chance of wiping a raid force than most of the NTOV bosses! (now chock that up to significantly less number of players, whatever the case may be. i still tended to have more fun in VP)

[Benanov]

Couldn't agree more on the non-agnostic-thing Enchanter, though. Other than reasons of roleplaying there's literally NO reason not to roll agnostic as a Chanter.

There are two deities that are "safe" to pick for Enchanters - Prexus and Bristlebane.

[Uuruk]

Not even CLOSE when it comes to VP raids. You want a solid 8+ level 60 Wizards to burn the mob down ASAP. Indeed WITHOUT those Wizards your precious Rogues are gonna die to the AOEs before the mob does.

Even in FULL NTOV GEAR tanks, and all other melees, will eventually die to the AOEs of several VP bosses. I don't remember ever failing to kill a VP Boss when our Guild had all of our raiding Wizards present. And I can't even count how many VP Bosses wiped us when our Wizards were NOT present! (Now alot of this is due to the "racing" style of raiding on Blue99 where you were effectively forced to start pulling a mob as soon as it spawned but this will only be even more accurate on Green99 when people are limited to in-era equipment)

All these mobs are trivial with the same amount of rogues but better. Need to get with the times.

[Kanuvan]

ive seen good wizards and bad wizards, they seem like they are not meant for the average lazy person caster that 99% of the population is, nuke once afk nuke twice fall asleep at keyboard and soak xp kind of caster player, but if a melee player who is always awake and attentive is playing a wizard then people are gonna love wizards, but that never happens

no one cares about raids sooo yea, just bring 100 whatevers and you win, the majority dont choose a class based on how it will raid but how it will be accepted into the xping game

[Izmael]

All these mobs are trivial with the same amount of rogues but better. Need to get with the times.

Depends how geared the rogues are. If they are feared 60% of the time, running back 20% of the time, having the out-of-range message 10% and finally meleeing a red mob for the remaining 10%, wizards are simply more burst DPS on a low-hp raid mob.

On something like Dozekar, of course a rogue will do more damage over the fight. On mobs requiring burst DPS, I'll take a wizard over a rogue any time.

[magnetaress]

30 wizards casting Sunstrike 8x = 387,600 dmg in 48 seconds. For a total sustained DPS (because everything is dead already anyway) of 8,705 DPS.

In such an instance you can utilize a two or three cleric CH chain and not even sweat them running out of mana before winning.

No one can beat that.

Now do the calculations for 13 wizards casting PBAoE x 39 trash mobs.

Now you may say, but Vulaak has 800,000 hp. Well 8,705÷2=4,037.5 and 800,000÷4037.5 absolutely for sure infinity DPS = 198.1424148607 Seconds until Vulaak loots. Or just about two and a half minutes, or 15 CHs maybe, I don't know jack shit about clerics. Half the wizards are medding or clicking robes at any given time while the other half are simultaneously nuking HARD. You can't know which is which until someone loots a Vulaak.

Pretty cool huh?

[magnetaress]

30 wizards casting Sunstrike 8x = 387,600 dmg in 48 seconds. For a total sustained DPS (because everything is dead already anyway) of 8,705 DPS.

In such an instance you can utilize a two or three cleric CH chain and not even sweat them running out of mana before winning.

No one can beat that.

Now do the calculations for 13 wizards casting PBAoE x 39 trash mobs.

Now you may say, but Vulaak has 800,000 hp. Well 8,705÷2=4,037.5 and 800,000÷4037.5 absolutely for sure infinity DPS = 198.1424148607 Seconds until Vulaak loots. Or just about two and a half minutes, or 15 CHs maybe, I don't know jack shit about clerics. Half the wizards are medding or clicking robes at any given time while the other half are simultaneously nuking HARD. You can't know which is which until someone loots a Vulaak.

Pretty cool huh?

I mean think about this for a second... 8 pallies, 1 ench, 1 clickie rez, 30 wizards. U don't even really need to bother with heals. The MTs just soak the mob till it dies. Pretty quickly I may add. There's your classic 40 "man" *coughs like a karana plague victim* vlassic raid force.

And all of the above can worship Errolisi Marr. Best classes. Best diety. Gg folks, gg.

[Uuruk]

Depends how geared the rogues are. If they are feared 60% of the time, running back 20% of the time, having the out-of-range message 10% and finally meleeing a red mob for the remaining 10%, wizards are simply more burst DPS on a low-hp raid mob.

On something like Dozekar, of course a rogue will do more damage over the fight. On mobs requiring burst DPS, I'll take a wizard over a rogue any time.

This is a discussion about killing mobs the fastest.

[magnetaress]

This is a discussion about killing mobs the fastest.

To be clear burst DPS is how much DPS at once a class can do. Wizards are universally 2x better at bursting than any others. Just empty head brain guessing the highest DPS a rogue can hypothetically maybe put out is like 20-40 damage a second. At best. Maybe 50 with buffs and the perfect raid positioning.

Where'as wizards, for like a minute or two sustain hundreds of damage per second. Like 1615/6, or 269.1666666667 DPS for 48+ seconds. Otherwise with clickies n stuff wizards are limited to 20-80 dps mana free. Also all wizards needs to do for this is basically hit 1 single button. It does not matter where they are standing or what the mob is doing 97% percent of the time.

As I see it.

Wizards are hands down the best DPS in game.

As I previously illustrated wizards are a force multiplier. More wizards = more DPS.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~30 wizards casting Sunstrike 8x = 387,600 dmg in 48 seconds. For a total sustained DPS (because everything is dead already anyway) of 8,705 DPS.

In such an instance you can utilize a two or three cleric CH chain and not even sweat them running out of mana before winning.

No one can beat that.

Now do the calculations for 13 wizards casting PBAoE x 39 trash mobs.

Now you may say, but Vulaak has 800,000 hp. Well 8,705÷2=4,037.5 and 800,000÷4037.5 absolutely for sure infinity DPS = 198.1424148607 Seconds until Vulaak loots. Or just about two and a half minutes, or 15 CHs maybe, I don't know jack shit about clerics. Half the wizards are medding or clicking robes at any given time while the other half are simultaneously nuking HARD. You can't know which is which until someone loots a Vulaak.

Pretty cool huh?

I mean think about this for a second... 8 pallies, 1 ench, 1 clickie rez, 30 wizards. U don't even really need to bother with heals. The MTs just soak the mob till it dies. Pretty quickly I may add. There's your classic 40 "man" *coughs like a karana plague victim* vlassic raid force.

And all of the above can worship Errolisi Marr. Best classes. Best diety. Gg folks, gg.~~~~~~~~~~~~

269.1666666667x30=8,075.000000001

Rogues cannot and will not ever be able to achieve these numbers on P99 servers.

In other words, it'd take 30 rogues 17 minutes to kill Vulaak vs my 30 wizards two minutes. By which time either way all 30 rogues are guaranteed BBQ deep fried extra crispy & doing zero DPS anymore.

[magnetaress]

Further more, like, 20 wizards can rend Lady Vox within 18.9 seconds.

Conversely it'd take 20 rogues more than 2.6~ minutes to stab her to death. She would likely devour them all within 30 seconds.

[Christina.]

Because Kunark mobs = 32k max HP and often impractical to fight for a long time - Trak, VS, Gore, Hoshkar...

It's always nice to burn these guys down ASAP, and this is exactly where Wizards shine.

This. Wizards are around, they just hide out until kunark . Believe me lol.

[Ligma]

Further more, like, 20 wizards can rend Lady Vox within 18.9 seconds.

You're entirely ignoring the resists of boss mobs. If you want to do those calculations you need to do them with lures and dragon/giant bane, which don't even exist on green.

No one is landing rend or ice comet on vox.

[Sacer]

You're entirely ignoring the resists of boss mobs. If you want to do those calculations you need to do them with lures and dragon/giant bane, which don't even exist on green.

No one is landing rend or ice comet on vox.

This, but also people forget rogues can evade, your dps is limited to how much aggro your tank have, while rogue can mostly do their max dps no matter what.

[magnetaress]

Rogues also have to hit the mobs with their puny SBDs, gg.

[Uuruk]

Rogues also have to hit the mobs with their puny SBDs, gg.

Bitch this was never a classic eq discussion. We talking about kunark + where 10 rogues can make a 32k hp dragon disappear

[NPC]

You're entirely ignoring the resists of boss mobs. If you want to do those calculations you need to do them with lures and dragon/giant bane, which don't even exist on green.

No one is landing rend or ice comet on vox.

I've landed Ice Comet on Vox on live. But no, you would want to use Conflagration on Vox, fire based. 625 dmg, 8 casts a min, 5k dmg per min.
Rend doesn't land on shit, or I should say, on live it doesn't. This server, it's probably the best spell in the game.
Resists are less for wizards then any others, plus when you die your mana gets completely restored and your agro is wiped. So dying is actually preferred at times, as you can instantly med spells an start casting again if needed. Can't remember if classic had bind restrictions around its raid mobs.

[NPC]

This, but also people forget rogues can evade, your dps is limited to how much aggro your tank have, while rogue can mostly do their max dps no matter what.
The best tanks in classic are paladins chain stunning while wizards nuke. Kunark warriors finally get weapons with proc that keep up if they max dex an haste. There some warrior weapons wizards can chain nuke an never get agro. It's all about equipment, an if your raiding, they better have the best equipment for MA. The best of course is the SoD out Velious. This is a classic example of MA gear directly affecting the outcome of a raid, which a large portion of the population still does not get, or see, ever.
Wizards are trash for the most part, I would say dont bother with one if you don't plan on getting a mana stone or mana robe and the epic weapon. Preferably all three, then that burst DPS becomes sustained DPS. Higher level your draught spells cast fast (3secs) enough you can alternate between mana robe casts (3secs) and damage draught spells an still get your naturally sitting med, just like shaman canny dancing.

[turbosilk]

I've landed Ice Comet on Vox on live. But you would want to use Conflagration on Vox, fire based. 625 dmg, 8 casts a min, 5k dmg per min.

I'm not sure dps calculations are done in damage per minute. With no fizzles Conflaguration is over 110 dps.

[NPC]

Bitch this was never a classic eq discussion. We talking about kunark + where 10 rogues can make a 32k hp dragon disappear

So 10 rogues? Wizards get 1600dmg, casts 6 times a min, 7200 per min.
So 5 wizards can do more than that in 1 min.

Base spells 2k, casts 5 times a min, 10k per min
With these spells 3 wizards just about do that, 1 min.

When Vox is trying to cast complete heal, nothing beats a wizard group burn for the win.

[ldgo86]

A few years ago I watched my guilds wizards burn down Gore on blue in seconds. I was totally floored. Granted not a Velious dragon but it was damn cool.

[magnetaress]

So. My maths are neat. Thx <3

Wizards are the solution when every problem is a mob that has loot or exp.

[Izmael]

Kunark dragons = wizards rule
Velious dragons = rogues rule, wizards still ok

/thread


Truth is, a lot more people mained wizards back in 2000-2001. It was often simply their first character that they stuck with and leveled to 60. Switching to another class didn't look appealing to a lot of people because leveling was so painful and slow.

It was always a great thing to see a good wizard turnout for a Kunark raid. I'm sure that ANY raid/guild leader from back then will confirm. /who all guild wiz and seeing like 5x 60 wiz was a true feeling of satisfaction when deciding on a target.

On P99 though, with all the knowledge we have, people don't level many wizards to 60, because they know their life at 60 kinda sucks.

[baakss]

Kunark dragons = wizards rule
Velious dragons = rogues rule, wizards still ok

/thread


This is not quite accurate with the current Velious meta.

Wizards are *very* flavor of the month in Velious raiding on blue.

Supposedly there are guilds actively PL'ing wizard bots for this reason. Riot definitely tends to be very wizard heavy.

[Christina.]

Wizards are around, they just don't show themselves until kunark . Believe me lol.

I wanted to quote myself from earlier lol

Wizards have and always will be one of the most dominate raid force classes.

[turbosilk]

So 10 rogues? Wizards get 1600dmg, casts 6 times a min, 7200 per min.
So 5 wizards can do more than that in 1 min.

Base spells 2k, casts 5 times a min, 10k per min
With these spells 3 wizards just about do that, 1 min.

When Vox is trying to cast complete heal, nothing beats a wizard group burn for the win.

The grossly uninformed think rogues are more dps than wiz or mage on 32k mobs.

[Uuruk]

It's cute seeing how many people are wrong on this box or have no idea what they are talking about.