The Manastone Calculation

[Castle2.0]

How many hours does it take? What is it worth? How much should I sell one for? How much should I buy one for?

Manastone takes approximately 40-80 hours to camp. When people hear this, they immediately start doing "plat-per-hour" calculations. This is a poor approach.

First, these 40-80 hours and the Manastone itself need to be understood in light of this important context:

No substitute -- Manna Robe doesn't even come close with 3 sec cast and int caster only limitation
Consecutive hours -- you can't put in 2 hours here, 3 hours there -- dropping at 30 hours = 30 hours wasted -- Seen it happen at much higher hours
Focused hours -- due to AFK checks you don't get any real breaks to make or even join in a serious meal with friends/family, can't take a long shower, can't take a nap worth taking
Exclusive location -- Can only be camped from one, single spawn point
Exclusive time frame -- Can only be camped until Sol Ro releases
Hard limit on quantity -- There will only ever be so many manastones - from Sol Ro onward the number will only decrease (quitters, banned cheaters)
No other benefits -- 28-minute spawn with no other monsters and no other loot (besides the bag that constantly rots) -- you will get negligible exp, if any


Let's look at plat in a 1-to-1 comparison with the above list:

Camping Items -- You don't even have to camp plat, you can camp rare items or any item that sells for plat -- your choice
Flexible hours -- Camp as much as you want, as long or as short as you want. You keep all your platinum from any time put in - no risk of loss for taking a long break, or stopping your session altogether
AFK Camps FTW -- Hadden earring goes for 7k and you just have to be at your keyboard once every 6 hours for 1 minute. Single spawn giants in Karanas or Rathe only require 1-2 minutes of your attention every 6 or 7 minutes. Take as many breaks as you like
Plentiful locations -- Can get plat in a LOT of spots and the number of spots grows over time. You can camp rare items, gems, plat, or vendor trash items. HGs in multiple zones, seafuries, Dino, guards (paineel is coming too), you can corner [specialize in] certain items (ex: golden haired mermaid for 6-8k raincaller bow), etc.
No time frame limit -- From Day 1, level 1, you start accumulating plat, and will continue to do so for the life of your characters
Ever-increasing commodity -- Very few plat sinks in EQ. Total amount of plat is always increasing, and thus prices
Added benefits -- Can get exp as you get plat or camp rare items. Up to you which camp suits you best


CONCLUSION:
I'm not trying to tell you what the Manastone is worth to you. I just want to point out simple plat-per-hour comparisons are an asinine approach to find a more objective, more concrete approach to value the Manastone.

In the end we each make our own subjective valuations, but these subjective valuations are best informed by the objective facts listed above.

P.S. WTS Manastone PST

[silo32]

Didn't read lol

[Erati]

how about a better and more useful calculation....

Does INT/WIS over 200 really do anything on Green server?

Have people tested around with this since Mana is not shown in our UI.

[ldgo86]

I guess no one bought his manastone yet

[Bigsham]

What are manastones selling for, you forgot that in your well worded post

[jackd104]

Apply your energies elsewhere for the good of mankind.

[Tilien]

The correct time to buy manastones is in approximately 5.5 years when Green 2.0 rolls into Green 1.0. Anyone who buys before then is a chump. Number of manastones on Green 1.0 will only increase over time, and prices will drop, drop, drop 3 years post Velious. Anyone who thinks they need a manastone is clearly dedicated enough to P99 to think about 3 years post velious release.

[cd288]

Seems like someone is trying to imply that Manastones should be more expensive (without saying those words) so that he can sell one for 200k

[DMN]

The correct time to buy manastones is in approximately 5.5 years when Green 2.0 rolls into Green 1.0. Anyone who buys before then is a chump. Number of manastones on Green 1.0 will only increase over time, and prices will drop, drop, drop 3 years post Velious. Anyone who thinks they need a manastone is clearly dedicated enough to P99 to think about 3 years post velious release.

What a stupid ass post. Where do you get this idiotic 5.5 year figure? it will be less than 1.5 years before green merges with blue or becomes its own server. Garbage in garbage out. People were selling manastones for 10k or less on blue go take a peak on the wiki for how much they pay now, mister "prices will drop-- cause reasons"

[cd288]

What a stupid ass post. Where do you get this idiotic 5.5 year figure? it will be less than 1.5 years before green merges with blue or becomes its own server. Garbage in garbage out. People were selling manastones for 10k or less on blue go take a peak on the wiki for how much they pay now, mister "prices will drop-- cause reasons"

This isn't RnF

[DMN]

This isn't RnF

Tilien seems to think so by posting completely bogus information. That your alt?

[cd288]

Tilien seems to think so by posting completely bogus information. That your alt?

Tilien doesn't seem to use vulgarities or target another commenter with insults in their post, which you do.

[DMN]

Tilien doesn't seem to use vulgarities or target another commenter with insults in their post, which you do.

Oh, ass and idiotic are "vulgarities" now. Someone needs to tell nickelodeon and morning TV. Think of the children!

[cd288]

Oh, ass and idiotic are "vulgarities" now. Someone needs to tell nickelodeon and morning TV. Think of the children!

Just saying, I think the overall rude tone of your post combined with the verbiage used is certainly not something the staff would appreciate on this sub-forum

[Balimon]

Just saying, I think the overall rude tone of your post combined with the verbiage used is certainly not something the staff would appreciate on this sub-forum

I don't think anyone appreciates this guy. All he does is flame and call people stupid.

[DMN]

I don't think anyone appreciates this guy. All he does is flame and call people stupid.

Will you junior high girls take your lunch table to RnF already?

[NPC]

5 years? You think this volume of players going to be around for Velious static in 5 years? They wont be around for Kunark. Too big of a gap with nothing to do, after legacy's stop this server will be as dead as all the rest. I would be surprised if population stays above 400 after that. Lots will quit till Kunark, but few will return. They should really speed up the releases, if they are smart. Who wants to raid fear an hate for 8 months? Only people still be playing will be all those losers wasting their lives farming mana stones. Maybe they can sell them to each other.

[Cen]

Here's an important calculation though.. that shit dont work when the meaty content hits, and all the content that manastone continues to work in people can do while blindfolded

Manna Robe = NO ZONE RESTRICTIONS NOW AND FOREVER BIG BOOTY TIME TONIGHT **** WILL TOUCH ******* IN A BIG AN EXCITING WAY

[Fammaden]

OP is a complete shitbag who had a terrible rep at list camps for Rubi and MS on Teal, then on green has been caught sniping staff of runes from other guilds' pull piles at their camps in Fear the first weekend.

Now he's posting frequently with his obsessions about manastones, their worth and value, the sale price, and selling his own. Say what you want about when they will hit peak tunnel value but seems odd to be so worked up about selling one now before they've even stopped dropping and available plat in the system is relatively low. Smells like RMT.

[Tilien]

Sorry to everyone who didn't read that my post was referring to green 2.0 merging to green 1.0 and has nothing to do with Green's Velious release or green folding into blue.

Hope this helps.

[Smellybuttface]

CONCLUSION:
I'm not trying to tell you what the Manastone is worth to you. I just want to point out simple plat-per-hour comparisons are an asinine approach to find a more objective, more concrete approach to value the Manastone.

In the end we each make our own subjective valuations, but these subjective valuations are best informed by the objective facts listed above.


It’s a very valuable item, of this there is no doubt. Requires a large amount of time, but I still don’t see how valuations based on time/plat ratio is “asinine,” especially when your intent is to sell it. You’ve shown other examples of items/camps with arguably a much higher rate of return (Hadden for example, 1 minute Real life time for potentially 7k return on investment). If you’re intending to try and make a windfall from your Manastone, the only reasonable way to look at it is assessing what you put in (time) to the amount you get in return (in-game currency). The exclusivity of the camp (location, time frame, limit on # in-game) isn’t pertinent to factoring what your return is.
I’m going to include my post from the other thread where we discussed this, to see if others have thoughts on it, since in the context of your thread it seems appropriate:

“ 1 thing I wonder with Manastone. So there isn’t anything fun about waiting on a list for 80-100hrs. Now EQ ordinarily just takes a ton of time to do anything, but usually leveling you’re “presumably” having fun, or hopefully, since that’s one of the main time expenditures in the game. Now since hitting an afk every 5-15 mins doesn’t actually have any fun associated with it, you have to hope that either what item you acquire or what you you sell that item for makes up for the time investment.

So let’s say you spent 80hrs at the list. If you sell a Manastone for 150k, each hour is worth roughly 1900 platinum. More time you spend, the less your time is worth (unless you sell for more). Then you have to ask yourself, is an hour of your real life worth 1900 platinum. That’s a very tough putt. Let’s say you make minimum wage - $15/hr. Would you spend $15 on 1900 platinum? Probably not. Now since most folks here are likely in their 30’s+, presumably you’re making more than minimum wage. So I’m just spitballing, but I’ll try a mean income of $50,000 a year after taxes (maybe a low estimate, but for arguments sake). Around $25/hr. So now, would you spend $25 on 1900 plat. On the green trade forum, I’ve seen someone selling a Manastone for 100k. Now that’s 1250 plat. And if you spent 100hrs camping it, that’s 1000 plat.

What’s the point of all this math? Well, I’m curious at what number you think you’re getting a viable return on your time investment. If camping a manastone was fun, then it’s an entirely different story since it’s hard to accurately gauge the price of your enjoyment. But most everyone I know that’s listed has said it’s a fairly miserable experience. With that said, do you think it’s a wise investment of time to camp a Manastone? Just out of sheer curiosity.

TLDR: is camping a manastone a wise time investment/money ratio?”

[Albanwr]

TLDR: is camping a manastone a wise time investment/money ratio?”

He said himself that it takes 40-80 hours. Sure, a friend can help, but most of that time he is sat there clicking AFK checks.

So, no its not a wise time investment. Unless you simply have NOTHING else at all that you could be doing in life.

Wife? Girl Friend? Kids? Work? Eating? Taking a god damn shower once in awhile.

This /list system has turned the neck beard into a complete waste of skin.

[Madbad]

I think we should boycott manastone sales as a server.

Let this shitbird sit and stare at his useless pixels.

[Swish]

How many hours does it take? What is it worth? How much should I sell one for? How much should I buy one for?

Manastone takes approximately 40-80 hours to camp. When people hear this, they immediately start doing "plat-per-hour" calculations. This is a poor approach.

First, these 40-80 hours and the Manastone itself need to be understood in light of this important context:

No substitute -- Manna Robe doesn't even come close with 3 sec cast and int caster only limitation
Consecutive hours -- you can't put in 2 hours here, 3 hours there -- dropping at 30 hours = 30 hours wasted -- Seen it happen at much higher hours
Focused hours -- due to AFK checks you don't get any real breaks to make or even join in a serious meal with friends/family, can't take a long shower, can't take a nap worth taking
Exclusive location -- Can only be camped from one, single spawn point
Exclusive time frame -- Can only be camped until Sol Ro releases
Hard limit on quantity -- There will only ever be so many manastones - from Sol Ro onward the number will only decrease (quitters, banned cheaters)
No other benefits -- 28-minute spawn with no other monsters and no other loot (besides the bag that constantly rots) -- you will get negligible exp, if any


Let's look at plat in a 1-to-1 comparison with the above list:

Camping Items -- You don't even have to camp plat, you can camp rare items or any item that sells for plat -- your choice
Flexible hours -- Camp as much as you want, as long or as short as you want. You keep all your platinum from any time put in - no risk of loss for taking a long break, or stopping your session altogether
AFK Camps FTW -- Hadden earring goes for 7k and you just have to be at your keyboard once every 6 hours for 1 minute. Single spawn giants in Karanas or Rathe only require 1-2 minutes of your attention every 6 or 7 minutes. Take as many breaks as you like
Plentiful locations -- Can get plat in a LOT of spots and the number of spots grows over time. You can camp rare items, gems, plat, or vendor trash items. HGs in multiple zones, seafuries, Dino, guards (paineel is coming too), you can corner [specialize in] certain items (ex: golden haired mermaid for 6-8k raincaller bow), etc.
No time frame limit -- From Day 1, level 1, you start accumulating plat, and will continue to do so for the life of your characters
Ever-increasing commodity -- Very few plat sinks in EQ. Total amount of plat is always increasing, and thus prices
Added benefits -- Can get exp as you get plat or camp rare items. Up to you which camp suits you best


CONCLUSION:
I'm not trying to tell you what the Manastone is worth to you. I just want to point out simple plat-per-hour comparisons are an asinine approach to find a more objective, more concrete approach to value the Manastone.

In the end we each make our own subjective valuations, but these subjective valuations are best informed by the objective facts listed above.

TL;DR - fat cat justifies high prices via academic essay

https://i.imgur.com/6RUFYnc.jpg

[damus1]

if you dont end a manastone camp with bags full of whitegold necklaces youre doing it wrong (or you're a lv 35 afk leech like most /listers)

[Wooted]

Good thing one just sold for 115k. The OP is such an annoying shitbag with his precious manastone propaganda.

[Danger]

if only you could kill people and take their camp. join the revolution brothers.

https://i.imgur.com/CkmP5lp.png

[DMN]

Sorry to everyone who didn't read that my post was referring to green 2.0 merging to green 1.0 and has nothing to do with Green's Velious release or green folding into blue.

Hope this helps.

Care to show me the post where any of the staff here have said that is going to happen? The only possibility they have floated so far is that green will be dumped into blue. That is still the most likely scenario at the time being. I assumed you simply misspoke, but instead you just decided to make shit up instead.

If green merges with blue, then the plat per stone will skyrocket so they will be dropped into a plat inflated economy. Once they merge is anounced the prices on green will match the ones on blue. If green 2.0 merges with 1.0 it's going to be the same story, though with somewhat a less inflated plat economy.

The best time to buy a manastone is long past. Next best time to buy one theoretically will be when green 2.0 is released and as early into the server's life cycle as possible.

[DMN]

Good thing one just sold for 115k. The OP is such an annoying shitbag with his precious manastone propaganda.

Says the kettle trying to tank mith 2 hander price for months.

[turbosilk]

Here's an important calculation though.. that shit dont work when the meaty content hits, and all the content that manastone continues to work in people can do while blindfolded

Manna Robe = NO ZONE RESTRICTIONS NOW AND FOREVER BIG BOOTY TIME TONIGHT **** WILL TOUCH ******* IN A BIG AN EXCITING WAY

You cast manna robe between casts while your spells are refreshing.

[cd288]

OP is a complete shitbag who had a terrible rep at list camps for Rubi and MS on Teal, then on green has been caught sniping staff of runes from other guilds' pull piles at their camps in Fear the first weekend.

Now he's posting frequently with his obsessions about manastones, their worth and value, the sale price, and selling his own. Say what you want about when they will hit peak tunnel value but seems odd to be so worked up about selling one now before they've even stopped dropping and available plat in the system is relatively low. Smells like RMT.

Lol OP got owned

[Tilien]

Care to show me the post where any of the staff here have said that is going to happen? The only possibility they have floated so far is that green will be dumped into blue. That is still the most likely scenario at the time being. I assumed you simply misspoke, but instead you just decided to make shit up instead.

If green merges with blue, then the plat per stone will skyrocket so they will be dropped into a plat inflated economy. Once they merge is anounced the prices on green will match the ones on blue. If green 2.0 merges with 1.0 it's going to be the same story, though with somewhat a less inflated plat economy.

The best time to buy a manastone is long past. Next best time to buy one theoretically will be when green 2.0 is released and as early into the server's life cycle as possible.

Please re-read my original post saying it's better and easier to farm plat until the next server cycles in than to kill yourself getting a manastone now.

Hope this helps.

[kjs86z]

@ OP

You forgot to include the paper napkin math on how many times you have to actually click the manastone before it saves you the amount of time you spent camping it.

Its pretty cringe. Might wake some of these people up a bit...the real sickos will ignore it.

[Wallicker]

Yeah why on earth would any cleric want an unlimited click mod rod... lol at people saying manastone isn’t good.

[cd288]

@ OP

You forgot to include the paper napkin math on how many times you have to actually click the manastone before it saves you the amount of time you spent camping it.

Its pretty cringe. Might wake some of these people up a bit...the real sickos will ignore it.

Never thought about it that way, but this really is something to think about

[Canelek]

People still RMT for rent money? Well, good luck to you sir.

[Castle2.0]

Bunch of haters spewing hate and high-fiving each other on it lol. This isn't RnF folks, feel free to start a 'hate on mannastone' thread. It feels very RnFy here just soaking up your silly, baseless insults -- mmm delicious.

---------

Here's another calculation for druid with manastone.

At 200 meditate you gain 16mana/tic sitting.

Chloro = 1500 hp over 15 minutes. That equates to 500 mana from manastone. Minus 200 mana for cost of chloro = 300 mana. That's 18.76 tics of siting down medding. That means you are saving 1m 52seconds -- every 15 minutes of active fighting.

That's 12.5% time saved.

If manastone takes 60 hours to camp. You would need 480 hours (20 days) of active play (using your mana for killing, porting, buffing, etc) to break even on time, and then you are gaining "free" time every minute from then on.

If you're a druid, do you have 20 days of /played time that was active? We're still in Vanilla and PoHate and SolRo isn't even out yet, and for most 50 druids, this is probably true - for anyone playing since Day 1 this is probably true.

Cleric even more insane with CH.

/thread

[cd288]

Bunch of haters spewing hate and high-fiving each other on it lol. This isn't RnF folks, feel free to start a 'hate on mannastone' thread. It feels very RnFy here just soaking up your silly, baseless insults -- mmm delicious.

---------

Here's another calculation for druid with manastone.

At 200 meditate you gain 16mana/tic sitting.

Chloro = 1500 hp over 15 minutes. That equates to 500 mana from manastone. Minus 200 mana for cost of chloro = 300 mana. That's 18.76 tics of siting down medding. That means you are saving 1m 52seconds -- every 15 minutes of active fighting.

That's 12.5% time saved.

If manastone takes 60 hours to camp. You would need 480 hours (20 days) of active play (using your mana for killing, porting, buffing, etc) to break even on time, and then you are gaining "free" time every minute from then on.

If you're a druid, do you have 20 days of /played time that was active? We're still in Vanilla and PoHate and SolRo isn't even out yet, and for most 50 druids, this is probably true - for anyone playing since Day 1 this is probably true.

Cleric even more insane with CH.

/thread

So I have a newsflash for you, just because people disagree with something you say and call you out on your attempt to try and artificially inflate prices for yourself doesn't mean anyone is saying anything to you that should be in RnF lol

[Castle2.0]

Rants and Flames
Any rant or flame against a player or guild should be contained inside of the Rants and Flames forum of the respective Blue or Red server forums. Do not bash a guild or a player outside of Rants and Flames.

Disagreeing is fine. Name calling belongs in RnF. Those are the posts to which I am referring.

Back on topic: Manastone is awesome. WTS Manastone.

[cd288]

Disagreeing is fine. Name calling belongs in RnF. Those are the posts to which I am referring.

Back on topic: Manastone is awesome. WTS Manastone.

Sorry you're upset that people called you certain names intended to illustrate the BS intent of your post. Maybe just stick to the trade forum where people aren't allowed to comment and maybe you'll get lucky and someone ill-informed will buy your MS at 200k

[kjs86z]

Here's another calculation for druid with manastone.

At 200 meditate you gain 16mana/tic sitting.

Chloro = 1500 hp over 15 minutes. That equates to 500 mana from manastone. Minus 200 mana for cost of chloro = 300 mana. That's 18.76 tics of siting down medding. That means you are saving 1m 52seconds -- every 15 minutes of active fighting.

That's 12.5% time saved.

If manastone takes 60 hours to camp. You would need 480 hours (20 days) of active play (using your mana for killing, porting, buffing, etc) to break even on time, and then you are gaining "free" time every minute from then on.

If you're a druid, do you have 20 days of /played time that was active? We're still in Vanilla and PoHate and SolRo isn't even out yet, and for most 50 druids, this is probably true - for anyone playing since Day 1 this is probably true.

Cleric even more insane with CH.

/thread


One thing to keep in mind about this is the 20 days /played is only time spent when you're playing at max efficiency. I'd argue the average P99 Green player will hit maybe 50% of this across their entire time logged into the game on that character.

This is pure spit-balling but roll with me here.

So let's call it 40 days /played to break even instead for shits and giggles. On a healthy 15 hour per week average play time, it will take 64 real life weeks to truly break even for our average joe blow casual p99 druid player's unhealthy trip into the Autism Abyss for a m-stone.

No idea when Kunark is supposed to drop but if you have plans on acquiring a manastone still, you better get in line soon and plan on playing a LOT of everquest to make it "worthwhile." And at the end of the day, was it really worth it?

Consider Blue.

[Wallicker]

Also once you get manastone it just appreciates in value the longer you hold it, not to mention those 2-3days of camping your time wouldn’t be 100% maximized like it is camping a manastone. If you have the ability to camp a manastone nonstop for 50hrs you probably would be hard pressed to find another way to make 2k+ per hour consistently(it can be done but probably just as much of not more work and would be hard to do it in one 50hr spurt).

[Albane]

The only reason to have a Manastone is to be able to handle content you find challening. What in classic is challenging and requires extra mana? PoF was cleared 3 hours after it was released by over 200 people.

Manastone camps are one of those things that will make you sick when you look back on your time later in life.

[Taric]

Rumor has it that, whenever you are on Kunark or Velious, you can hear your Manastone weeping in your pocket.

[Castle2.0]

The only reason to have a Manastone is to be able to handle content you find challening Bad assumption. Yes, an extra heal or nuke is great and a big reason -- and yes doing content with less gear, less people can make some things in classic challenging.

The big reason is less downtime. Downtime isn't challenging, it's just a drain on my play time. Invest X time now to get 2X or 3X time later.

Cd288, don't worry. I will sell The Manastone for a minimum of 200K when the time is right.

[Castle2.0]

I'd argue the average P99 Green player

The average green player won't be buying a manastone for many reasons, not the least of which is not enough plat in the bank.

Let's say someone is a bit more hardcore. They play ~3 hours of actual camping, kiting, porting, etc. a day. I wouldn't call this 'hardcore' by P99 standards - probably around average - but by your numbers.

A little over 5 months break even time. Not bad - since the above mentioned person will play beyond 5 months.

Also, when speaking of the price of a manastone in the market it's not based on the average joe, it's based on people actually buying/selling.

If you've seen an order book on an exchange -- see here: https://www.multitrader.io/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Zrzut-ekranu-2018-07-26-o-15.26.33.png

There are lots of low offers of buyers and high offers of sellers. Where the real price is (the mid-market rate) where real transactions take place.

All that to say, it doesn't matter if 100 people say manastone is only worth 50-80k (right now) -- plenty of these people on the forums -- and it doesn't matter if 100 people say it's worth 500k (right now.) The real price is where the transaction takes place in the middle. My argument here is not about the real price of The Manastone at this point in time. I am simply showing how to help someone calculate it's worth by comparing the context of camping a manastone vs camping plat/rare items.

As this truth sets in and time ticks on we will see the true value of the manastone reflected in the pricing.

[Tuljin]

All this EQ paper napkin arithmetic never accounts for inflation.

The saved time math certainly "adds up" but here is the caveat - when Kunark drops you'd have to level 50-60 exclusively in the Hole to get this "saved time." Nobody is going to do that. Hole is an amazing zone but it'll be a ghost town (pun intended) just like Blue because nobody can really "handle it" and you can't just /lfg at zonein.

The market dictates the price. The first manastone sold for 60k in December was it? Now February not quite two months later one goes for 115? It's not really "more money" lol

[Tilien]

The average green player won't be buying a manastone for many reasons, not the least of which is not enough plat in the bank.

Let's say someone is a bit more hardcore. They play ~3 hours of actual camping, kiting, porting, etc. a day. I wouldn't call this 'hardcore' by P99 standards - probably around average - but by your numbers.

A little over 5 months break even time. Not bad - since the above mentioned person will play beyond 5 months.

Also, when speaking of the price of a manastone in the market it's not based on the average joe, it's based on people actually buying/selling.

If you've seen an order book on an exchange -- see here: https://www.multitrader.io/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Zrzut-ekranu-2018-07-26-o-15.26.33.png

There are lots of low offers of buyers and high offers of sellers. Where the real price is (the mid-market rate) where real transactions take place.

All that to say, it doesn't matter if 100 people say manastone is only worth 50-80k (right now) -- plenty of these people on the forums -- and it doesn't matter if 100 people say it's worth 500k (right now.) The real price is where the transaction takes place in the middle. My argument here is not about the real price of The Manastone at this point in time. I am simply showing how to help someone calculate it's worth by comparing the context of camping a manastone vs camping plat/rare items.

As this truth sets in and time ticks on we will see the true value of the manastone reflected in the pricing.

But you want 200k for a manastone, not 60 hours. If we assume that the buyer makes plat at 1k/hour then they will need to spend 534 days, or nearly 1.5 years of playing 3 cash making hours per day before they make up for the lost money. All 1.5 years spent in classic zones.

That is 1.5 years of playing 3 hours per day, 7 days a week, no holidays, not farming Kunark items, not farming Velious items (since manastone doesn't help there).

Not bad.

[cd288]

Cd288, don't worry. I will sell The Manastone for a minimum of 200K when the time is right.

Of course you will. The server economy will always continue to inflate and that's just the way it goes. That's very different from trying to artificially drive up the price prior to that.

[Smellybuttface]

No idea when Kunark is supposed to drop but if you have plans on acquiring a manastone still, you better get in line soon and plan on playing a LOT of everquest to make it "worthwhile." And at the end of the day, was it really worth it?


This is an important point. Any calculations on time gained/maximized efficiency have to be taken in concert with the release of Kunark. As has been said, in order to get a truly accurate accounting of the item’s return on investment, it’ll need to be used to maximum efficiency in just the next few months. When Kunark is released, the items value SHOULD drop precipitously, since finding groups in old world zones will be much more difficult. At least for 50+, which one would assume would be the level of person able to actually buy the stone. Now say if someone creates an alt and is able to scrounge up people to group with in Classic zones, then the calculation can continue. But once they step foot on Kunark, or even the Planes, that investment return freezes immediately.


The best time to buy a manastone is long past. Next best time to buy one theoretically will be when green 2.0 is released and as early into the server's life cycle as possible.

I completely agree with this. People that acquired their Manastone early in the life of the server stood the best chance of getting the requisite rate of return from buying. As it is now, with only a few months to go till Kunark, I think it’s highly unlikely people will see a return on buying a stone, or an efficiency return on the time invested for those camping the stone to actually use it.

[aaezil]

Post doesnt matter manastone is useless in the next two expansions.
Move to resolved

[Castle2.0]

when Kunark drops you'd have to level 50-60 exclusively in the Hole to get this "saved time."

Buy one now. Kunark doesn't come out for another 9 months.
Manastone isn't soulbound - you can use it on any toon in classic.
Some great spots in classic to level 50-55, especially with a manastone.


That is 1.5 years of playing 3 hours per day, 7 days a week, no holidays, not farming Kunark items, not farming Velious items (since manastone doesn't help there).

Not bad.
If someone is making only 1k/hour, they are a Qualified Manastone Purchaser (QMP.) They aren't even in the market for it.

Now say if someone creates an alt and is able to scrounge up people to group with in Classic zones, then the calculation can continue. But once they step foot on Kunark, or even the Planes, that investment return freezes immediately.
Post doesnt matter manastone is useless in the next two expansions.
Move to resolved

If you're a wiz, druid, necro, etc. you're probably soloing. Even with Kunark/Velious there are great zones to group/solo in classic
Manastone currently usable in all available planes ;)
Druids/wiz can self port to classic to use Manastone whether it's Kunark or Velious. At 60 with Kunark and even Velious gear with much higher mana pools it becomes even more valuable to do this to get FM


----------

Bonus Info: It's more efficient than originally thought

Any class can buy the shaman regen pots (see : http://wiki.project1999.com/Potion_of_Lesser_Rejuvenation ) From talking to a shaman the effect is simply Chloroplast on Green.

This means the 200 mana cost for Chloro on our earlier calculation is also saved and so total mana saved is bumped ~66%, from 300 to 500 mana at the cost of ~30pp. For every 1 hour of doing this you're spending 120pp. Pretty reasonable cost, especially for someone who bought the Manastone.

Instead of saving 1:52 every 15 minutes or 12.5% saved time, you're saving approximately 3:07 every 15 minutes or ~20%.

This means you need 300 hours of "active" play time to break even on camping cost @ 60 hours camping Manastone. That's 3 months 10 days @ 3 hours/day.

------

We haven't even talked about regen items like Fungus Staff (prenerfed / nerfed) or Fungus Tunic (permanent, stackable Clarity.) Wow!

[Albanwr]

why are you going into such detail for an item that is well known, and all details about it are easy to understand and find?

EVERYONE knows what a manastone is, and most know if they do and don't want to buy one.

You don't have to come up with a paper to make people want to buy one.

If they haven't bought one yet, they either don't want to, or simply do not have the funds...or maybe they are waiting on the /list.

Either way, if I was selling one i would wait until they are removed from the game.

[Kanuvan]

youre not geting a manastone in your lifetime by simply camping plat lolz

[Wallicker]

youre not geting a manastone in your lifetime by simply camping plat lolz

You do realize multiple people have purchased these with straight plat... there are several camps where you can make 500pp+ Per hr. If you played 30hrs a week you could buy one in probably 10-15 weeks which is fair if you don’t have the consistent time to list. Basically it comes down to if you wanna camp one via list you do all your time in one sitting otherwise it’ll be about 4x as long to farm the plat in spurts. Granted there are some people who can make 2k+ per hour played camping items and selling them and for these people buying a stone is more efficient than actually camping one.

[Tilien]

You're still calculating 60 hours time investment, when in fact you're asking for 200k. If someone could make 200k in 60 hours why would anyone be camping manastones to sell them? You yourself said this isn't reasonable (which is why 60 non afk hours is worth more).

Even if someone could consistently make 2k per hour for their 3 hours of daily play (again, no vacation, no helping guildies, no playing toons not using the manastone, no semi-afk camps because manastone isn't useful there), it would take 9 months for them to break even. Just in time for the usefulness of the manastone to go down in kunark.

[Castle2.0]

You're still calculating 60 hours time investment, when in fact you're asking for 200k. If someone could make 200k in 60 hours why would anyone be camping manastones to sell them? You yourself said this isn't reasonable (which is why 60 non afk hours is worth more).
Yes, 60 non-afk, consecutive hours is worth more than 60 hours afk, with breaks, etc.

No, I am not making the case people should camp manastone to sell it. I am making the case it would be worth it to a number of people to camp items/plat to buy it - but also made a side calculation of camping it could also be worth it to use it.

Even if someone could consistently make 2k per hour for their 3 hours of daily play (again, no vacation, no helping guildies, no playing toons not using the manastone, no semi-afk camps because manastone isn't useful there), it would take 9 months for them to break even. Just in time for the usefulness of the manastone to go down in kunark. The beauty of camping plat/items is you can take a break to go help guildies, take vacations, whatever. People don't have to camp plat/items every hour every day.

It would only take 100 hours of camping 2k/hour to make 200k. These 100 hours can be done at any pace you like. I doubt there would be zero other benefits in those 100 hours like there's no other benefits while camping The Manastone. Even assuming there were no benefits, by the next 500 active play hours you break even and gain time from then on. At the casual 3 hours/day you suggested, that's not 9 months, that's 5 1/2. Kunark comes out in 9. If someone is more hardcore and plays 6 hours/day they break even in under 3 months. These people are definitely Manastone buyers.

Just because Kunark releases doesn't mean The Manastone is now useless.


If you're a wiz, druid, necro, etc. you're probably soloing. Even with Kunark/Velious there are great zones to group/solo in classic
Manastone currently usable in all available planes
Druids/wiz can self port to classic to use Manastone whether it's Kunark or Velious. At 60 with Kunark and even Velious gear with much higher mana pools it becomes even more valuable to do this to get FM



Additional thought: Not only efficient, but fun

We talk about time saved via using The Manastone: efficiency. We haven't yet talked about enjoyment, which is the most important. This is a game after all.

I find it a LOT of fun to use The Manastone. It's almost like using cheat codes -- you can see why it was removed from game. From once you buy it, you no longer start immediately saving time, but it makes the caster experience that much more enjoyable.

[Smellybuttface]

Question: where are people making 1-2k consistently every hour? I ask this because the assumption is that if they only play 3 hours a day, then they are somehow getting a lucrative camp the SECOND they log on, and are able to consistently make that amount for every hour they play. Money camps are highly competitive. Seems unlikely someone would be able to find one with that high a return that quickly EVERY DAY, 7 day’s a week. This is unrealistic, so the calculations are quite far off as a result.

[Castle2.0]

If you're going for a pure plat camp in classic (or maybe porting?), 500-750pp/hour is much more reasonable expectation. I was just rolling with that dude's number for argument's sake. It's possible to make ~1.5k/hour at HGs if you get em at off hours.

I think where people can make more is on rare items/gems, but then you're rolling the dice. I got 8 pants before I got an SMR lol.

I will say this. If you're only making 500pp/hour, don't expect to get a manastone. For some people though, they can do 400 hours of camping over time, but can't do 60 straight. And for some of that sliver of the population, buying a manastone may be worth it.

The reality is The Manastone is out of the reach of most people -- most people just aren't actually in the market. They either don't have the capital, or camping the capital with the little time they have just isn't worth it.

[cd288]

Lol the extent this guy is going to to try and artificially inflate the current price of Manastones is absurd. He's written like a treatise on this shit all to try and get someone to give him 50k extra imaginary currency on an emulated server of a close to 21 year old game. Imagine all the more productive things he could've done in that time lol

[Bigsham]

Why is castle trying to convince us how good a manastone is we already know and we all want one.

Now being insane enough to camp it or being able to afford it is a different story.

If i had my way it would be no drop and 10x more rare but hey thats just me

[Castle2.0]

Lol the extent this guy is going to to try and artificially inflate the current price of Manastones is absurd. He's written like a treatise on this shit all to try and get someone to give him 50k extra imaginary currency on an emulated server of a close to 21 year old game. Imagine all the more productive things he could've done in that time lol

(1) Multi-tasking
(2) How long does it take to camp 50K?
(3) "U act like u know me, bro" -- creepy, you know all I get done in the day...

[boukk]

Post classic, manastone is really only truely useful to wiz with port + epic combo for soloing, and maybe druid, that s about it, and for alts.

[Castle2.0]

Post classic, manastone is really only truely useful to wiz with port + epic combo for soloing, and maybe druid, that s about it, and for alts. Very useful for all you listed. But there is more... A few days after Sol Ro drops and I release a video.. you will see the true power of The Manastone!

[silo32]

Very useful for all you listed. But there is more... A few days after Sol Ro drops and I release a video.. you will see the true power of The Manastone!


Still looking for a job?

[fadetree]

It’s a very valuable item, of this there is no doubt. *snip lots of words*

It seems like it is, but it shouldn't be. It's fairly useless. There's a couple kind of emergency scenarios in which it could be helpful, but as far as increasing your average kill rate over a long term it's almost a negative...if you count the amount of times you either outright killed yourself by overclicking or by going so low you suddenly pull aggro or just too low to survive the dot on your ass.
It's not free mana, you have to pay for it with HP, and it's an expensive ratio. Try healing yourself while using the stone, you will run out of mana AND hp quickly. This thing is for nerdquest only.

[fadetree]

Very useful for all you listed. But there is more... A few days after Sol Ro drops and I release a video.. you will see the true power of The Manastone!

It's not useful. Post us a meaningful scenario where you can increase your average long-term kill rate with a stone, and provide actual numbers. Having a buddy along who will devote themselves to healing you doesn't count. Or, actually it does...the same thing will happen, you'll run out of HP and mana and your buddy will run out of mana too it will just take slightly longer. It is a dumb item, even when and where you can use it.

[Castle2.0]

To this:
Why is castle trying to convince us how good a manastone is we already know and we all want one.

I show this:
It seems like it is, but it shouldn't be. It's fairly useless. There's a couple kind of emergency scenarios in which it could be helpful, but as far as increasing your average kill rate over a long term it's almost a negative...if you count the amount of times you either outright killed yourself by overclicking or by going so low you suddenly pull aggro or just too low to survive the dot on your ass.
It's not free mana, you have to pay for it with HP, and it's an expensive ratio. Try healing yourself while using the stone, you will run out of mana AND hp quickly. This thing is for nerdquest only.

Obviously, not everyone 'gets it'.

It's not useful. Post us a meaningful scenario where you can increase your average long-term kill rate with a stone, and provide actual numbers. Having a buddy along who will devote themselves to healing you doesn't count. Or, actually it does...the same thing will happen, you'll run out of HP and mana and your buddy will run out of mana too it will just take slightly longer. It is a dumb item, even when and where you can use it. You don't seem to understand how manastone works. I'll give you 2 common scenarios.

(1) Druid with Chloroplast - 200 mana 10hp/tic for 15 minutes. That's 150 ticks, so 1500 hp. This means you can click your manastone 25 times over the course of 15 minutes, and by the end of the 15 minutes be at the same HP you started with, but with an additional 300 mana (500 from manastone minus 200 from Chloroplast.)

(2) Cleric with Complete Heal. Manastone down to 1%, then CH back to full. If your cleric has over 1,200 hp... you're gaining mana. With ~2400 HP, you net a gain of 400 mana every time you do it. With ~3,600 HP you gain 800 mana, and so on. How does 800 mana sound when you just have to click your Manastone ~60 times then cast CH which takes 10 seconds? That's the equivalent of medding for 5 minutes at 50.

This isn't theoretical, this is how druids and clerics actually use manastone.

There are other scenarios, but these are the most common.

[derpcake2]

What a stupid ass post. Where do you get this idiotic 5.5 year figure? it will be less than 1.5 years before green merges with blue or becomes its own server. Garbage in garbage out. People were selling manastones for 10k or less on blue go take a peak on the wiki for how much they pay now, mister "prices will drop-- cause reasons"

I have 13 manastones on red, I bummed them from friends that quit and bought a few.

Looking forward to merge.

[NPC]

Bad assumption. Yes, an extra heal or nuke is great and a big reason -- and yes doing content with less gear, less people can make some things in classic challenging.

The big reason is less downtime. Downtime isn't challenging, it's just a drain on my play time. Invest X time now to get 2X or 3X time later.

Cd288, don't worry. I will sell The Manastone for a minimum of 200K when the time is right.

This is why they merged teal? So azzhats like this can ruin the game for casual players? Casual players do not want the hardcore 'Zerg' community or their ignorant over price merch. But the Zergers want the casual player. The only peps with 200k wont have any need for a manastone. Also, you can't bind in Sebilis= so manastone is worthless. We'll see how prices go when the mass exodus for everyone waiting on Kunark comes in 2-3 months. 99% of everyone will have 50th level char an alts because of the ZEM's, an farmed all their needed loot waiting for Kunark upgrades, everyone is gonna quit soon, rather than buy over price yak's and mith 2H an mana stones.
FYI - Sebilis, manarobe>manastone. Fungi Tunic>Rubi Breast
If I had 200k right now, I'd be waiting on manarobe, fungi tunic.

[fadetree]

You don't seem to understand how manastone works. I'll give you 2 common scenarios.
<schooling>blah blah blah</schooling>


As much as I hate to admit it, I think he's right about these scenarios. I would not have the patience to play like this, which is why I didn't think of them and also why I thought the MS I had at one point was kinda useless, but if you're into this kind of play then yep it sounds worth having. I would not wait 80 hours or pay huge sums of plat for it still, but hey, I'm sure some would.

Someone else check the numbers, I am too lazy but they seem ok at first glance. If I'm going to be all opinionated, I at least need to be straight up when I'm wrong.

[NPC]

As much as I hate to admit it, I think he's right about these scenarios. I would not have the patience to play like this, which is why I didn't think of them and also why I thought the MS I had at one point was kinda useless, but if you're into this kind of play then yep it sounds worth having. I would not wait 80 hours or pay huge sums of plat for it still, but hey, I'm sure some would.

Someone else check the numbers, I am too lazy but they seem ok at first glance. If I'm going to be all opinionated, I at least need to be straight up when I'm wrong.

Really the only use for a manastone is clerics with 3000+hp or for wizards with an epic weapon, which epics wont be in the game till like next year?
So manastones are pretty worhtless right now. Clerics get the most bang now, but that is not so great with low hps.
Wizard epic gives 800 hp shield for free. So you can siphon that free 800 hp with mana stone. Wiz Epic cast time is 17 secs, manastone instant click. 800/60 = 13 clicks = 240 mana in about 20 secs, x3 = 720 mana per min for free. Ice comet costs wizards 400 mana. Ice spear costs 300, Sunstrike costs 450. So wizzy could IC almost twice a min infinitely or Ice spear 2.5 times per min. Best proly Ice spear (1200dmg) once, then Sunstrike (1650dmg) once per min infinitely. So 2850 dmg per min without losing any mana. Then the dragon bane and giant bane spells are 2k damage per 450 mana.
Cleric Complete heal costs 400 mana, so you would need over 2400 hps to be able to mana stone down to 800 mana, complete heal yourself, then have enough to complete heal again.
The higher the cleric hps the more efficient Complete heal will be, the more mana they can get out of manastones. Not sure on that side of the equation how good that is at its peak. What is peak cleric hps in classic, Kunark and Velious? Isnt warrior hps like 10k or so in Velious?
Kunark there are few items that can make the manastones more efficient, but you cant use manastones in Kunark.

[Wallicker]

Manastone is good for any caster if used correctly - end of story.

[Swish]

Really the only use for a manastone is clerics with 3000+hp or for wizards with an epic weapon, which epics wont be in the game till like next year?
So manastones are pretty worhtless right now. Clerics get the most bang now, but that is not so great with low hps.

It's not about usefulness, its about status and banking an item that won't devalue with inflation. Remember the fat cats run the economy.

[damus1]

even at 2000 hp manastone is extraordinarily good for cleric, about 10x faster than medding. With regen is becomes stackable clarity for every other caster. Whether its worth buying or camping is up to you, but theres no denying its an incredibly powerful item.

[Castle2.0]

tl;dr

even at 2000 hp manastone is extraordinarily good for cleric, about 10x faster than medding. With regen is becomes stackable clarity for every other caster. Whether its worth buying or camping is up to you, but theres no denying its an incredibly powerful item.

[NPC]

Manastone is good for any caster if used correctly - end of story.

No, on 40th level hps regen 3 per tick, mana 17 per tick. If you have no way of regenerating hps, then its worthless. It becomes faster an more efficient to just meditate, even if you sacrificed health to below 50% an used bandages to heal back up. Its still faster to just normal meditate. Necros and shamans already have more efficient life to mana conversion, so worthless to them. Regular life regen is 3 hp per tick, thats 30 hps a min. So you could sac 60 hps every 2 min for an extra 10 mana a min.

When using it as a cleric you have to worry about low life agro, which if a cleric gets agro due to low life your group is gonna die. High level groups this becomes a much bigger part of grouping than low level groups. The cleric needs to be able to sacrifice enough life to be able to complete heal once then make extra mana.
400 mana for complete heal, you have to sac 1200 hps just to able to complete heal yourself back gaining nothing in the process.

Mana stone is not as useful as most think it is.

[Videri]

Another way to look at the manastone is to say it converts your HP regen into mana regen at a rate of 60hp per 20 mana. Who wouldn't want to be able to flip a switch and say "Whatever I have for HP regen is now mana regen instead"? It's similar to a mini-clarity you can turn on and off at will.

As a cleric, you can ask your local druid or shaman for chloro and make additional use of your own HP that way.

Hey, would anyone use a manastone on a shadowknight, paladin, or ranger? I guess if you had a mana bar and you could wear a fungi, a manastone might be cool. Only in classic zones, though...just brainstormin'.

[Sacer]

Don't forget doing that cleric dance you go from passive mana regen to active mana regen, no more house chores while meding, for some it's a pro for other it's a cons.

[Nirgon]

Ya no big deal just camp 12 yaks to get manastone

I'll be beating the doors off Seb as enc, no stone

[DMN]

People being shit at EQ is no logic for dinging something like the manastone.

there are tons of uses for stones, most of them aren't game changing except for maybe druids, eventually wizards, clerics, and necromancers.

At level 20 you start regening 3 hp a tick. Which you can functionally turn into 1 mana per tick. Nothing incredible but still something.

Converting mana between classes. Sometimes someone in a group needs mana and others in the group have plenty of mana but no way to give it to the person who needs. Now with manastone it's possible. Anyone who can heal or rune now has a way to transfer mana directly to that player in need.

Obviously being grouped/around anyone who can/will chloro/regen will make it very useful. I can easily as an enchanter find a shaman or druid who will happily trade me 2 chloros for 1 clarity. They win and you win. they are only losing 400 mana but gain around 2k from clarity.

Obviously if you ever need emergency mana for finishing off mobs, getting another heal off, gating, etc. it has its uses

Some of the uses can even sneak up on you, like when I'm playing my enchanter I'm always keeping berserk spirit up. Thing is, about half the time I won't get hit and normally all that mana would be wasted. but now instead I can gain a third of my mana back from casting it. Or maybe I got hit but my rune still has some HP left i can go ahead and get some free mana back, too.

[Wallicker]

Yea not to mention if you have a bard in your group, hymn then becomes a huge boost to mana instead of hp if you aren’t in a roll that’s causing you to take hits, Magicians also get a line of regen shielding. It’s legit like having an unlimited click Mod Rod with a slightly worse conversion ratio, if you can’t see the usefulness in that well I can’t help you.

[Smellybuttface]

I don’t think anyone (well, most anyone) was questioning how great a Manastone is. The arguments mostly centered around if it’s worth the platinum return on time investment if you plan to sell it now, or something what its value is for the remaining months of Classic if someone were to buy one now.

To be sure, it is an amazing item.

[sentinel]

For Clerics it is decent. One thing they don't tell you is how miserable right clicking that damn thing is. CONSTANTLY. CLICK CLICLICKLCLICKK cast complete heal CLICLICLCKLKICLCKLCI cast complete heal x a million. What fun.

[Albanwr]

For Clerics it is decent. One thing they don't tell you is how miserable right clicking that damn thing is. CONSTANTLY. CLICK CLICLICKLCLICKK cast complete heal CLICLICLCKLKICLCKLCI cast complete heal x a million. What fun.

more or less fun sitting on your butt medding?

[Castle2.0]

For Clerics it is decent. One thing they don't tell you is how miserable right clicking that damn thing is. CONSTANTLY. CLICK CLICLICKLCLICKK cast complete heal CLICLICLCKLKICLCKLCI cast complete heal x a million. What fun. Same reason no one is using red wood wands to grind levels. Because killing a single spawn and medding for 6minutes 40seconds is way more fun.

[sentinel]

Just pointing out it isn't all roses. Of course having a manastone is better than not having one. But I hope you like clicking billions of times a day.

[NPC]

Another way to look at the manastone is to say it converts your HP regen into mana regen at a rate of 60hp per 20 mana. Who wouldn't want to be able to flip a switch and say "Whatever I have for HP regen is now mana regen instead"? It's similar to a mini-clarity you can turn on and off at will.

As a cleric, you can ask your local druid or shaman for chloro and make additional use of your own HP that way.

Hey, would anyone use a manastone on a shadowknight, paladin, or ranger? I guess if you had a mana bar and you could wear a fungi, a manastone might be cool. Only in classic zones, though...just brainstormin'.

So just saying its a amazing item, but not doing the math to prove it makes no sense. Chloroplast last like 12 min, if you're casting it on yourself it gives 10 hp/tick, thats 100 hps a min, if it lasts 12 min thats 1200 hps. You could convert that to 400 mana, but it costs 200 mana to cast Chloroplast. So you would only get a net benefit of 200 mana over 12 min, a whole 16 extra mana per min, which would be about 1.6 mana per tick. If someone else is casting chloro on you then it can be a bit of a boon, that would double the effect to about 3 mana per tick, but I think I would rather just have a clarity instead for 5-7 mana per tick without clicking constantly. Right now only clerics can use it effectively, 39th level cleric with at least 2k-ish hps to get some benefit above everyone else. Every other class is only gonna get 1-2mana/tick benefit tops. Mages get a regeneration line of shielding, but its only 3hps per tick, thats even less than chloroplast, an it takes components.
This is mainly a wizard item, because they can bind, gate to old world use the mana stone, immediately gate back, plus they have epic free hps shield, but again 1.5 years away or so. To say mana stone is worth 200k now is insane, I would say 50-70k tops, if that, to anyone but a cleric. There maybe some clerics that would pay 100k+, but its insane everyone wants one an doesn't even realize the limitations.

Btw I have a mage with a manastone.

[Castle2.0]

Chloro lasts ~15 minutes @ 50. As calculated earlier in the thread, that's a net 300 mana gain over 15 minutes, or 2 mana/tick. When you're getting 16/tick medding at 50, that's a 12.5% increase from one item. Not bad.

If someone is casting chloro on you, you're gaining 500 mana over 15 minutes, or 3.33/tick. 20% increase mana regeneration from medding alone at 50.

Also the mage line is great. 3hp/tic = 1 mana tic. Stackable FT1 for 1hour 12minutes? Not bad. If you got The Manastone and are worrying about 3 cat's eye agate...

[Bigsham]

if your talking about net gains in everquest you are not making any net gains in real life

[Castle2.0]

you're*

Just submitted ~14,000 USD in proposals today to a client I've done work before - you've heard of them.

If you're super into baseball cards (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66yNvHeePq4) there's no way you're building the fastest growing insurance company in America...

"Oh, wait, what's this..." (https://vangogh.teespring.com/v3/image/QXhaaTysL0FKXpGGivkgOR_64vg/480/560.jpg)

I am not this guy -- just an example ;)

Gonna go ahead and give myself +1 points for Mark Dice reference, and +1 points for Patrick Bet-David reference.

Successful people have hobbies? Successful people have obsessions / are obsessive? Successful people are good at things other than their professional line of work? I hope this doesn't shock you.

Back on Track: Manastone awesome. WTS Manastone.

[fadetree]

Yeah I just would never have the patience to play like this. The additional aggravation outweighs the relatively minor benefit over a short time. Now that's my opinion, so don't come at me wielding mathy bits.

[sentinel]

Just submitted ~14,000 USD in proposals today to a client I've done work before - you've heard of them.

tell me you are flexing on a 14k proposal. please

[Castle2.0]

tell me you are flexing on a 14k proposal. please Super flexing, I flex all the time. Context: I just shared what I was doing the same day someone said running Manastone numbers means someone is wasting their life. 365 days in a normal year if I'm counting correctly. I never flex.

Anyone else got some Manastone numbers to share?

[sentinel]

You and this ridiculous thread have devalued manastones more than anything else

keep chugging with big boi proposals though lol

[fadetree]

wait that 14k was in dollars? ! 14 THOUSAND AMERICAN DOLLARS. That is very flex worthy, Or wait, are they canadian dollars?

[Castle2.0]

Indian Rupees =(

But let's get back to how awesome Manastone is, ya?

[sentinel]

so how many proposals did you submit that all added up to 14k?

remember guys, this is the person who is trying to sell the value of the manastone. though i have a feeling he's just bored and wants to be mr. troll-lite

[Castle2.0]

I never flex.

Above post was to make a point about the poster's logic.

If I wanted to flex, I'd share that I am the largest sole proprietor of Red Wood Wands on Green :D lol

But I'll stop here and let people share more on manastone numbers if they want - that's the topic.

[heyokah]

Not cringey at all

[Bigsham]

Lol goodluck selling baseball cards they are worth 1/4 of what people think, if you can sell them

only children think that shit has real value ( Adults dont buy crap like that )

[jackd104]

On Friday afternoon, the /list was 12 deep. I’d rather put my balls in a vice for 72 hours.

[Natewest1987]

On Friday afternoon, the /list was 12 deep. I’d rather put my balls in a vice for 72 hours.

Kinky

[Sibelia]

Not cringey at all

yes it is hehe

[Smellybuttface]

On Friday afternoon, the /list was 12 deep. I’d rather put my balls in a vice for 72 hours.

Sobering to know that even if you did that, you’d still have another 24 hours or so to wait on the Manastone.

[Bardp1999]

I'll offer 10k for the Mana Stone

[Bigsham]

easier to pay little brown kids in other countries to camp it for you

[gnomishfirework]

easier to pay little brown kids in other countries to camp it for you

The dude in his mom's basement is more experienced and cheaper.

[Albane]

I get having a manastone on a cleric, with CH and 2000 health, they can turn 400 mana into 650 mana every 15 seconds or so. About 2.5x faster than meditating with Clarity.

But on a Shaman or Druid, it's 200 mana for Chloroplast and takes 15 minutes to get 1500 health back. So 200 mana for 1500 health which you can turn into 500 mana. So that's an extra 300 mana every 15 minutes.

Someone explain to me how this item can have any value to anyone but a cleric as more than an overpriced trinket? Especially considering how mind numbling boring and easy all Classic content is.

[Bigsham]

thats not its purpose, when you need a heal or a bit of mana its more of a bonus

its a novelty item in classic

it gets alot better later

it is also far more useful on a necro or epic wizard then a stupid cleric

[magnetaress]

I have never clicked a manastone in my EQ life, and I pretty much almost exclusively solo'd two clerics to 55.

[Castle2.0]

Someone explain to me how this item can have any value to anyone but a cleric as more than an overpriced trinket? Especially considering how mind numbling boring and easy all Classic content is. Will post a video after Sol Ro is released and I wanna pump the price of manastone up. Not until then, lest the camp become overcrowded and impossible to camp another. But know this: (1) manastone is not only for classic. (2) manastone is not only for cleric.

If you don't know, you will know, and...

[magnetaress]

I have seen a druid and a wizard use one once. Didn't impress me much though. I felt like it gave them only a slight advantage in downtime over not having it. Like. 5% less downtime. Just how much it felt different with them in the group vs someone without a manastone. I feel like it was more a peace of mind thing or something to help with an obsessive compulsion to be "doing something".

I had a cleric friend who bought one eventually, but I outleveled them by being clever long before they bought the stone.

[boukk]

I get having a manastone on a cleric, with CH and 2000 health, they can turn 400 mana into 650 mana every 15 seconds or so. About 2.5x faster than meditating with Clarity.

But on a Shaman or Druid, it's 200 mana for Chloroplast and takes 15 minutes to get 1500 health back. So 200 mana for 1500 health which you can turn into 500 mana. So that's an extra 300 mana every 15 minutes.

Someone explain to me how this item can have any value to anyone but a cleric as more than an overpriced trinket? Especially considering how mind numbling boring and easy all Classic content is.

It s only got value on a wizard who has an epic past classic truthfully.

[Castle2.0]

Not going back within 12 pages to find the guy who said, "everyone knows the power of the manastone" or something to that effect... but it was said by someone!

I wish he could see some of these responses to see how wrong he is.

In terms of ability to go from OOM to full past classic on a solo character, it's very close between an epic'd wizard and a druid. Stay tuned for that video. Release date: One day after Sol Ro patch.

[Tuljin]

I wanna pump the price of manastone up.

I'm not really sure how anybody can pump up the price of any item at this point because the platinum economy has stagnated entirely.

The "highest end" items have trouble selling for 20k at this point. There are some people farming some nice items out there that are hard to get but most people on this box can't afford to buy them. The people that can afford them don't need them, including Manastone.

There is a remarkable difference in the organization of ~rAiD~ guilds between now and 10 years ago when Blue launched. There are also way more guilds and more max level toons in them. Any "new" players to P99 since the Green launch have gotten some lvls and joined the ~rAiD~ guilds and haven't made any money.

They instead collect DKP which really isn't worth anything until you a. get a nodrop item or b. get a droppable item and sell it for platinum. The nodrop item is worth nothing besides having the item itself. This does nothing for the coin economy.

The droppable item obtained with DKP and sold is only worth the platinum you get for it. At this point Rokyls crystal is selling for 8k on EC forum, Swirlspine Belts don't move at 12k. How much are you gonna sell a Swirlspine for when you should just pony up for an FBSS that barely sells for 20k anymore?

The issue with DKP is that it is worth nothing until it's spent. When Kunark drops don't think for one second that guilds won't vaporize and reform. You get a "DKP package" on a guild "merge" but that's nothing but a promise for an item in the future that you still need to "compete" with other people to get. Is everyone saving up for a Crown of Rile? How many of those are even going to drop before Velious? A handful?

Another issue with DKP is that it doesn't get you all the gear you need. There's plenty of items that can be farmed or bought that are excellent and highly desired. The fact of the matter is is that on Green, given the timeline, only a handful of people will be full slot BiS from their DKP, and they already know who they are. Everybody else has banked on DKP and they have no actual coin to buy all the other gear they need and is actually attainable.

This brings us back to the main point of "driving prices up" and the basics of currency in society, virtual and otherwise.

~~~~~Nobody can pay 150k for a Manastone besides people who already have one~~~~~

The biggest money items don't sell easily and their value is plummeting. Sharkbone Warhammers move well but at 2k each you need to farm a LOT of hammers to afford one. How about Rokyls and Swirlspines? How much DKP are people gonna spend on items that don't even sell for 10k? How many of THOSE do they need? How much DKP will they spend before Kunark drops? People are gonna want Plane of Sky drops too, right?

Another issue I even forgot about until I was talking to a buddy - there was an incredible amount of plat and items duplicated in the early days of Blue. That flooded the economy with coin and items. At this point everybody is broke.

The other day on EC forum I saw someone WTB a Moss Mask - I said wtf is that??? It's an EB clicky that someone wants because they are new to a ~rAiD~ guild and they can't afford a Rebreather to do it. Can't even afford an Aqualung.

Everybody is sitting around collecting DKP and ~rAiDiNg~ or powerleveling toons. There is way less liquid plat being generated from selling vendor gems and fine steel than there was at launch. The server has slowed down. An incredible amount of fake currency DKP will be vaporized at Kunark launch and anybody who thinks that the cabal won't create a superzerg with a loot council component to kill the top dragons first is a fool.

Nobody that wants a Manastone at this point has 150k my dude. Anybody with 150k already has one. New people to the server won't make anywhere near 150k plat anytime soon. Absolutely not. I don't know how the price of something is going to "go up" when people can't even afford it in the first place. People will save their money and they will want to spend it on Kunark droppables they need. Don't forget, people will need levels and better gear to drop Kunark mobs. It will be some time before anything is killed in VP.

You can make all the videos you want my dude that's fine. I don't even mean to "poo poo" your efforts but man, everybody is broke. The facts are the facts. The economy has stagnated. I don't really think anybody is arguing that Manastone isn't a very powerful item (it's largely "unnecessary" but that's a different story.)

Most people on this box are broke dude. Unless people start hustling instead of sitting around collecting DKP it's gonna stay that way.

Is Rubi BP gonna suddenly sell for 50k instead of barely 20 when it stops dropping?

Is Manastone instantly gonna sell for MORE money when it doesn't drop anymore ---- when nobody has the money in the first place???

[mycoolrausch]

[list=1]
No substitute -- Manna Robe doesn't even come close with 3 sec cast and int caster only limitation


And yet, people will be trading stones for robes when kunark drops.

[Castle2.0]

And yet, people will be trading stones for robes when kunark drops. Someone also traded hundreds of GLS for SMR. So what? That's the beauty of list. Unguilded solo player can camp The Manastone. That person will never get a dropped Manna Robe.

I am sure you will see some crazy trades of WTT Manastone for ((insert difficult to obtain solo raid item))


~Rant against DKP system~
~Rant that there's not a lot of money on Green~
~Comment knocking Manastone~

Saving space so my post doesn't blow up.

Myth #1: "Everyone is broke"
There's plenty of money on server. As stated in the original post, money is ALWAYS increasing. Very few plat sinks, and very few people use those plat sinks.

HGs nearly permacamped meaning that's ~30,000pp flooding into the server every single day. (6 HGs, ~25pp average drop, ~7min pops, you do the math.)

This myth of everyone being broke is just projection of broke players assuming everyone is broke like them. When someone spends 20k on FBSS it's not that the 20k disappears. Magically..... the person who sold the FBSS now has that money and can spend it on items!

"Myth #2: Prices are coming down because people have no money"

See Myth #1 busted and continue reading. Prices are coming down on some items which could be for a lot of reasons.

Yes, the price of The Manastone will jump when Sol Ro releases. No, Rubicite BP will not go up - it can be replaced and does not have a unique function (hp regen) like The Manastone (hp->mana)

[RipVanFish]

Someone also traded hundreds of GLS for SMR. So what? That's the beauty of list. Unguilded solo player can camp The Manastone. That person will never get a dropped Manna Robe.

I am sure you will see some crazy trades of WTT Manastone for ((insert difficult to obtain solo raid item))


Saving space so my post doesn't blow up.

Myth #1: "Everyone is broke"
There's plenty of money on server. As stated in the original post, money is ALWAYS increasing. Very few plat sinks, and very few people use those plat sinks.

HGs nearly permacamped meaning that's ~30,000pp flooding into the server every single day. (6 HGs, ~25pp average drop, ~7min pops, you do the math.)

This myth of everyone being broke is just projection of broke players assuming everyone is broke like them. When someone spends 20k on FBSS it's not that the 20k disappears. Magically..... the person who sold the FBSS now has that money and can spend it on items!

"Myth #2: Prices are coming down because people have no money"

See Myth #1 busted and continue reading. Prices are coming down on some items which could be for a lot of reasons.

Yes, the price of The Manastone will jump when Sol Ro releases. No, Rubicite BP will not go up - it can be replaced and does not have a unique function (hp regen) like The Manastone (hp->mana)

Prices seem to be coming down on nearly everything man, not everyone is broke but I think most people have far less platinum then you think they do.

That hill giant cash for example is divided over many different people, and those people change day by day.

[Jimjam]

The closer green gets to sky/kunark the less people shall be willing to spend plat on items that will be unsellable in a few months.

[Tuljin]

It's a lot like the actual economy. A lot of people want a Ferrari and can't afford one. Anyone who can actually afford one can really afford multiple.

Someone's gonna come around and say "ya know, this fine piece of Italian machinery, it's really incredible, it's super fast, it's worth the money. It's only 350k! But ya know what, it's worth even MORE than that and if you don't buy one now it's gonna be even more expensive!"

Then you get many people quite well off that would say - "yeah Ferraris are cool and all, buy my fifth generation Corvette that I keep in my garage and has an upgraded valvetrain, suspension, and exhaust didn't cost me anywhere near as much as a Ferrari and I can't even drive it safely on public roads. I'm gonna keep buying rental properties."

HGs nearly permacamped meaning that's ~30,000pp flooding into the server every single day. (6 HGs, ~25pp average drop, ~7min pops, you do the math.)

This myth of everyone being broke is just projection of broke players assuming everyone is broke like them. When someone spends 20k on FBSS it's not that the 20k disappears. Magically..... the person who sold the FBSS now has that money and can spend it on items!

Prices seem to be coming down on nearly everything man, not everyone is broke but I think most people have far less platinum then you think they do.

That hill giant cash for example is divided over many different people, and those people change day by day.

It's not "projecting" everyone is broke. I farm and sell items dude. I log into EC every day and check forums. Nobody is buying top end items.

You need to sell Ferraris to ~~~rich people~~~. Many rich people already have one. If they don't, a rich person knows a Ferrari is nice, but probably doesn't want one or spends money elsewhere.

Rant "against" DKP dude - it's not "against." It is what it is. It explains why the first people to the server who went hard and hoarded a bunch of money have it all and everyone else who is new really doesn't. Collecting DKP doesn't directly make you money, and DKP is worth "nothing" until you have an item. Period. The server nubs are broke and they will continue to be broke.

And then we get the paper napkin math EQ nerds love so much. Is just one person farming Hill Giants for 24 hours a day? It would take them 5 days to make 150k. Is someone farming 8 hours a day and making 10k? Is someone gonna farm Hill Giants 8 hours a day for 15 days then go buy a Manastone for 150k? Or are they gonna....go camp one?

Yes, the price of The Manastone will jump when Sol Ro releases. No, Rubicite BP will not go up - it can be replaced and does not have a unique function (hp regen) like The Manastone (hp->mana)

I'm not even gonna go dig up the post but I called people out that turning down 35k for a Rubi BP in December was foolish. Lo and behold, they barely sell for 20k now. The logic for why everyone was saying they'd spike after they stopped dropping is simply because...it stopped dropping. The benefit of the item never came into question.

Manastone is only useful for casters. They are useless for melees. "Epic Wizard." How many of those are there going to be on Green???

Kunark comes, eventually Velious. Melees get a huge bump. People are gonna drop plat on melee gear.

You miss my point and I'm not wrong - Manastone price won't spike right after Sol Ro comes out. Nobody is buying them in the first place. Nobody has the money. Anybody with money is going to spend it on other things. By the time a Manastone sells for 150k plat will have inflated and it's not worth the "150k" you think it is.

The person who sold manastone for 70k in December? Smart. He probably went and got another one. Someone on forum said one sold for 140k? People are WTB and WTS on forums but seemingly with no bites?

The real question is...how many have actually been sold? How many ~will~ even be sold and not straight traded on down the line?

You always seem to have some type of "explanation" and "justification" for peddling these things but dude, nobody has the money. If they have it they are holding out and they likely already have one.

150k is a lot of plat man. As long as people hoard DKP and not actual coin 150k will remain a lot of plat. The whole DKP thing won't change. An item that isn't selling for 150k now won't magically sell for more than that because it simply no longer drops and there are in fact hundreds on the server. It's just not how things work dude.

[Tuljin]

There's plenty of money on server. As stated in the original post, money is ALWAYS increasing. Very few plat sinks, and very few people use those plat sinks.

HGs nearly permacamped meaning that's ~30,000pp flooding into the server every single day. (6 HGs, ~25pp average drop, ~7min pops, you do the math.)

And really I was making my post and didn't get into this more but I mean...with the paper napkin math.

30k a day, you play 8 hours. You make 10k. That's if you kill every single HG. You don't. If ~anybody~ is making 10k per day at any camp, they certainly won't tell anybody where it is lol.

Also, 30k a day from Hill Giants. Let's say for easy math there's 1000 actual human players (there's more.) That's 30 platinum a day per player. We are talking about less than 30 platinum per day per player coming from Hill Giants.

At this point, daily server population is well under 1k. How many of them are leveling? How many of them are waiting for the next Fear spawn? How many of the nubs are actually leveling and vendoring their bronze and fine steel instead of powerleveling?

The actual coin injection into the economy at this point has stagnated. Its very low. This can't be calculated with paper napkin math. Even if you did, its low.

I just had an epiphany thinking about this nonsense. My father growing up used to sit at the kitchen table and try to figure out dice odds. He did this on a paper napkin. He did this a lot. He'd do it with horses and dogs too. He always told me that "you can't beat them." And he's absolutely right. The fact that he sat there and tried to figure it out on a paper napkin...shit he could have tried to figure it out with Watson...is ridiculous.

The EQ nerd "paper napkin" math is so ridiculous and its tired. 10 years of P99. Its tired and ridiculous. Its so ridiculous that you have to sit down and think about it and wrap your brain around it and you poke a million holes in it and then you finally say...."wow, that's absolutely fucking ridiculous" lol

[Castle2.0]

It's a lot like the actual economy. A lot of people want a Ferrari and can't afford one. Anyone who can actually afford one can really afford multiple.

Someone's gonna come around and say "ya know, this fine piece of Italian machinery, it's really incredible, it's super fast, it's worth the money. It's only 350k! But ya know what, it's worth even MORE than that and if you don't buy one now it's gonna be even more expensive!"

Then you get many people quite well off that would say - "yeah Ferraris are cool and all, buy my fifth generation Corvette that I keep in my garage and has an upgraded valvetrain, suspension, and exhaust didn't cost me anywhere near as much as a Ferrari and I can't even drive it safely on public roads. I'm gonna keep buying rental properties." Bad analogy. No one has "manastone lite." It's categorically different - on a whole different level. A better analogy is flying a helicopter to work versus driving a car through traffic.

It's not "projecting" everyone is broke. I farm and sell items dude. I log into EC every day and check forums. Nobody is buying top end items.

You need to sell Ferraris to ~~~rich people~~~. Many rich people already have one. If they don't, a rich person knows a Ferrari is nice, but probably doesn't want one or spends money elsewhere. I guess you don't own and/or haven't tried to sell a manastone. You're right though, rich people have one-car garages with one Ferrari in it... Oh wait... People got their cleric alt, their wiz alt, their druid alt... It's not like 1 manastone is enough (for the rich.)

Rant "against" DKP dude - it's not "against." It is what it is. It explains why the first people to the server who went hard and hoarded a bunch of money have it all and everyone else who is new really doesn't. Collecting DKP doesn't directly make you money, and DKP is worth "nothing" until you have an item. Period. The server nubs are broke and they will continue to be broke.' You can raid and still make cash. They aren't mutually exclusive.


And then we get the paper napkin math EQ nerds love so much. Is just one person farming Hill Giants for 24 hours a day? It would take them 5 days to make 150k. Is someone farming 8 hours a day and making 10k? Is someone gonna farm Hill Giants 8 hours a day for 15 days then go buy a Manastone for 150k? Or are they gonna....go camp one? Would someone do 8 hours/day for ~2 weeks @ HG while they work their low-activity job, but don't have the health or lack of social life to camp a manastone for 80 hours straight. YES!

Would someone camp HG 4 hours/day at off times for 1 month instead of camping a manastone for 80 hours straight? YES!

Let's keep the question simple and more general: Will some choose to camp plat over a longer period of time instead of camping 50, 60, 70, 80 or more hours straight on manastone? Absolutely yes

Also, it's not just that one person camps all that plat. I'm simply saying plat is flooding the server HHK guards, HGs, etc. Guilds are buying up root nets, IG toes, etc. Plat is flowing.

HGs alone (if camped 24/7) would bring in one million plat to the server in a little over 1 month. That's just 1 set of 6 mobs in one zone. The treants in SK are probably ~250k/month (assuming 300pp/hour.) And there's more cash camps than that.

Individuals seriously underestimate how much plat is being produced and floating around the server because they only see their individual activity. People get all surprised when prices inflate later.

I'm not even gonna go dig up the post but I called people out that turning down 35k for a Rubi BP in December was foolish. Lo and behold, they barely sell for 20k now. The logic for why everyone was saying they'd spike after they stopped dropping is simply because...it stopped dropping. The benefit of the item never came into question.[/quote] No surprise here for me. I sold mine at 28k and bought and sold 2 more, each bought at 22k and sold at 26-28k. [b]No comparison to manastone. Rubi BP = replaceable and effect at 50+ is minimal. Manastone irreplaceable and effect becomes more powerful at larger mana/hp pools. Iksar BP and Fungus Tunic arrive in Kunark. RIP Rubi. I haven't touched it for weeks now.

Manastone is only useful for casters. They are useless for melees. "Epic Wizard." How many of those are there going to be on Green??? Wrong again. You obviously don't know how druids can be just as effective as wizards, maybe more effective. No worries, stay tuned for that video. If you care to wager some platinum. I'll prove a druid can be about as effective as epic'd wizard +/-10% time to go from OOM to FM.


Kunark comes, eventually Velious. Melees get a huge bump. People are gonna drop plat on melee gear.

You miss my point and I'm not wrong - Manastone price won't spike right after Sol Ro comes out. Nobody is buying them in the first place. Nobody has the money. Anybody with money is going to spend it on other things. By the time a Manastone sells for 150k plat will have inflated and it's not worth the "150k" you think it is. No way people will buy any melee gear. Remember, everyone is broke ;)

Funny, you admit plat is flooding into economy causing inflation, but then say everyone is broke.... Manastone price will 100% spike after Sol Ro. Watch.

[Castle2.0]

The math might be 'tired and ridiculous' because of your terrible assumptions.

30k a day, you play 8 hours. You make 10k. That's if you kill every single HG. You don't. If ~anybody~ is making 10k per day at any camp, they certainly won't tell anybody where it is lol.

Also, 30k a day from Hill Giants. Let's say for easy math there's 1000 actual human players (there's more.) That's 30 platinum a day per player. We are talking about less than 30 platinum per day per player coming from Hill Giants.

At this point, daily server population is well under 1k. How many of them are leveling? How many of them are waiting for the next Fear spawn? How many of the nubs are actually leveling and vendoring their bronze and fine steel instead of powerleveling?

The actual coin injection into the economy at this point has stagnated. Its very low. This can't be calculated with paper napkin math. Even if you did, its low.

You don't need to make 10k per day to buy manastone. You can make 1500pp per day and get it in a few months. This allows you time to do other things.

The platinum from HGs isn't sprinkled across the entire population in some Bernie-esque scheme. You find a lot of the same people at HGs. My point of sharing the total plat influx is to show you close to 1 million plat is flowing in from HGs alone onto server every month. Probably a small % of players soaking up 90% of that plat.

Coin injection into economy has stagnated? What does that mean? People are still killing HGs, HHK guards, etc. Coin injection rate not increasing much, sure, but filling up a bath tub that's plugged = the tub gets fuller and fuller. If 2 million plat is created every month on Green. If that "stagnates" (AKA stays the same) where is it all going? Water... food... reagents... tink bags... a small amount of recharging... Anyone that knows EQ knows there are few plat sinks.

Total plat on Green is increasing and will continue to increase. Period.

This alone increases prices.

[Tuljin]

Coin injection into economy has stagnated? What does that mean? People are still killing HGs, HHK guards, etc. Coin injection rate not increasing much, sure, but filling up a bath tub that's plugged = the tub gets fuller and fuller. If 2 million plat is created every month on Green. If that "stagnates" (AKA stays the same) where is it all going? Water... food... reagents... tink bags... a small amount of recharging... Anyone that knows EQ knows there are few plat sinks.

Total plat on Green is increasing and will continue to increase. Period.

This alone increases prices.

Dude it's really funny watching you talk your way out of this like Jerry Lundegard from Fargo lol, I'm really not mad dude and I don't wanna rip on you its just really funny to me.

Yes, ~of course~ there is more money every day going into the economy. And yes....that alone increases prices. This phenomenon is called................

.................

.................

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~inflation~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~



So, when the Mannastone finally sells for 150k....it won't be worth "150k." As I've been saying from the get go.

Its really funny to watch you keep trying to poke holes dude. You have some manastones, you'll sell them. Keep holding out and do something with them. That's fine. But dude, nobody is going to "drive the prices up" of anything.

When the price "goes up" after they don't drop anymore, what will that ~actually~ be worth? A "manastone" will be worth "a fungi" or "a Manna robe." The coin number will keep fluctuating. To be stuck to this number is.....ridiculous.

It's not about "winning" an argument dude. I mean, it is to you, obviously. We all know the joke about the special olympics and arguing on the internet.

But I will make this point....and I'm not "wrong"...this entire thread and trying to single-handedly drive up the price of an item nobody is buying in the first place and talking till youre blue in the face about absolute nonsense and every single counter-point anybody ever makes ever....is absolutely fucking ridiculous lol

[magnetaress]

If I played on green I would probably camp one to sell down the road for 150k, but I wouldn't expect to sell it right away.

[Zal22]

TL;DR

OP struggling to sell his manastone for what HE thinks it is worth.

[sentinel]

OP is working way too hard at trying to get people to care this much about manastones.

[Castle2.0]

OP is working way too hard at trying to get people to care this much about manastones. Not even dude or I would have named my main Manastone. I take offense at this.

[Bigsham]

Career gamer, this is endgame RL for him

[Castle2.0]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351873&page=5

Average manastone camp now exceeds 130 hours.

+1 reason 150k is a good deal for MS

[magnetaress]

I envision every bitcoined mined, a pocket virtual universe exists with a Castle2.0, 2.1 3.439a, all farming a manastone.

[Bigsham]

schnarfs hormone pill and taps submit

[Castle2.0]

Considering the length of The Manastone list now... I think our thread here has proved persuasive to many.

[Wrekt]

WTS Manastone 175k