Why didn't mages get root?

[RipVanFish]

What was the classic thinking here, all other pet classes do get root so root-chain petting doesn't seem to have been a valid concern for the developers.

[DMN]

You might think it was balance but really think it was more to be thematic, perhaps even channeling AD&D specialization where you choose to excel in one school (such as conjuration) but can't use any of the opposing school such as alteration (root).

I don't think was based on any other logic. Look at SKs for instance. Necromancers have better roots over their career than clerics but for some reason SKs can never even figure out to cast the first level root, yet paladins get several of that spell line.

And they mainly were expecting people to group primarily, not solo, so didn't focus on balancing for solo play.


Hybrid exp penalty thing is straight out of AD&D too and also wasn't properly balanced.

[Phaezed-Reality]

dmn is right, it had nothing to do with balance, most of classic wasn't balance based. Mages where entirely theme based. elements. Root has not considered an element and was given to one of the pets.

Nothing balance was taken into account, it was pretty funny.

[Bigsham]

if mages got root they would be ridiculously overpowered and could break and solo almost any camp

there is a root earing from cazic 2.0 that had clickable instill, it sold for big bucks and was removed from game pretty quick

[RipVanFish]

if mages got root they would be ridiculously overpowered and could break and solo almost any camp

there is a root earing from cazic 2.0 that had clickable instill, it sold for big bucks and was removed from game pretty quick

Necromancers and enchanters get powerful pets too, and they have root though.

[DMN]

Necromancers and enchanters get powerful pets too, and they have root though.

Enchanter pets are extremely squishy and necro pets cost waaay more mana and are still a decent bit weaker in tanking then mage pets.

[RipVanFish]

Enchanter pets are extremely squishy and necro pets cost waaay more mana and are still a decent bit weaker in tanking then mage pets.

Hmm did not know the difference was that big. Interesting!

[Vizax_Xaziv]

if mages got root they would be ridiculously overpowered and could break and solo almost any camp

there is a root earing from cazic 2.0 that had clickable instill, it sold for big bucks and was removed from game pretty quick

Will that item drop for a time on Green then?

[Palemoon]

Will that item drop for a time on Green then?

no, from beyond this timeline.

Back during original EQ development, one of the devs shared how he had a carefully created chart with all the different roles and powers on them and made sure no one class stepped on too many toes. Mages are unique in being the only caster that CAN'T root.

Truth be told one of the three healers should of been stripped of root too.

[Kanuvan]

for balance.

why would you get a root and a pet, that would be too strong for a non CC class.

[Cen]

if mages got root they would be ridiculously overpowered and could break and solo almost any camp

there is a root earing from cazic 2.0 that had clickable instill, it sold for big bucks and was removed from game pretty quick

If mages got root, AND every spell that a wizard got, essentially merging the two classes, including combining the power of both epics, the pets, the ports, root, snare, etc..

they'd still barely be as good as an enchanter if even.

Slow is the game breaker in classic EQ

[Jean-Baptiste Cutting]

If mages got root, AND every spell that a wizard got, essentially merging the two classes, including combining the power of both epics, the pets, the ports, root, snare, etc..

they'd still barely be as good as an enchanter if even.

Slow is the game breaker in classic EQ

Yea classic balance is a joke lol, chanter is just stupid broken, to the point it makes the original devs look incompetent as fuck.

[Balimon]

I've always thought mages should get the epic pet at 60 and the epic should instead be a click root dot. Even with root at 60 mages aren't overpowered, we all have root nets anyways?

[Wallicker]

...........................Pet level........Hp....... Dmg..Bash
Kintaz's Animation 49 37-41 1800-2000 45-53* 22-24

Greater Conjurat: Air 49 37-41 2200-2400 48-56 23-25

Enchanter summoned pet basically a mage air pet... throw haste on it, slow on mob, toss it some runes, you can interrupt casts with mez/stun, hell you can time stuns right before melee round to extend the slow% per say.

[Swish]

Maybe the idea was that a mage could play to his strengths and GROUP UP with some people who cover his weaknesses?

;)

Perhaps one of the deaths of EQ was AAs starting to fill the blanks of what Class A needed that they could steal from Class B, C or D.

[RipVanFish]

Maybe the idea was that a mage could play to his strengths and GROUP UP with some people who cover his weaknesses?

;)

Perhaps one of the deaths of EQ was AAs starting to fill the blanks of what Class A needed that they could steal from Class B, C or D.

What strengths? Mages are basically just weaker necromancers/enchanters. No reason not to give them root aside from flavour.

[cd288]

Hmm did not know the difference was that big. Interesting!

Yeah Ench pets are definitely not that great. They can be pretty decent when you first get the next tier of pet spell where you’re still killing mobs a couple levels below that and you chain summon to get the max level pet, but they are really squishy other than that. The only exception is the level 39 pet which has crazy regen.

[Vexenu]

I always thought it would be nice if Mages had a spell to basically summon up a crappier LORE version of the root net. Five charges with maybe with a 2-3 second cast time. Would be very useful but a big enough pain in the ass (being flagged LORE and hence having to re-summon often) to not be overpowered.

[Gatorsmash]

Yea classic balance is a joke lol, chanter is just stupid broken, to the point it makes the original devs look incompetent as fuck.

"This" classic version is broken, not the original classic. Its been said a million times- enchanter was not the terminator killing machines back during live pre PoP they are here.

@OP it was a balance thing. CC was a real thing and you didnt make a group without someone doing it

[Wallicker]

Enchanter even with slow haste summoned pet CC runes and stun is still wildly OP without charm.

[Smellybuttface]

"This" classic version is broken, not the original classic. Its been said a million times- enchanter was not the terminator killing machines back during live pre PoP they are here.

@OP it was a balance thing. CC was a real thing and you didnt make a group without someone doing it

Enchanter charmed pet was DEFINITELY OP as hell in live. In true classic days, I ran with a trio - Ranger, Enchanter, Shaman. The Enchanter charmed pet damage was as unreal then as it is now. I was the Ranger of all things (we were a strange team, but didn’t know any better back then about penalties, optimum trio classes etc.). But without a doubt, the enchanter would just wreck fucking house with his pet. No class even comes close for MANY expansions down the road.

[stewe]

Mages get root, it is called an earth pet, next.

[cd288]

"This" classic version is broken, not the original classic. Its been said a million times- enchanter was not the terminator killing machines back during live pre PoP they are here.

@OP it was a balance thing. CC was a real thing and you didnt make a group without someone doing it

There were tons of posts about this several months back where these types of claims were found to be untrue. Next.

[Sunderfury]

I think they were thinking of balance in truth, but stopped with just the mage in this regard. I seem to remember a good dev interview about mages. Root should have been limited to druid / shaman imo.

What I also would have loved to see for balance:
-Clarity to wizards only
-Slow formula to be revisited (is too OP), requires reagent
-When charm breaks the spell emits an AoE that stuns PCs (or maybe mob is raged, immune to spells for 10secs on break)
-No pets in any form accept weapons or items
-No recharging
-Snare as Ranger only, requires reagent
-Don't go waaaaay overboard come Kunark with melee weapon ratios
-No mend for monks
-FD has 10min cooldown, also has max duration
-Backstab should have a general ceiling and not tied to weapon strength (evade as a cooldown ability similar to FD)
-more "cursed" items please (i.e. great weapon ratio but proc strips you of a buff or something like that)
-more "cursed" buffs while we're at it (top level haste also drains down HP lich style)
-more holy / unholy sword options for knight classes, very proc / situational based

Ahhh to dream...

Still was hella fun playing launch day, no one cared about the above, just went off to explore a new world and have adventure.

[Swish]

What strengths? Mages are basically just weaker necromancers/enchanters.

That's ridiculous, mage pets can shred necro pets. Your pet is steady dps, which a lot of groups crave and look for in a rogue/monk - not hard to send that in, and on top of that your nukes may not be wizard nukes but they're close.

You might lack CC without an earth pet locking down an add, but if you've got any flavor of priest/healer who isnt a window licker they can root in an enchanter's place.

I think the point I was making about grouping up should be reiterated, the game wasn't designed for 13 classes to be able to go on solo adventures - its a social game where everyone brings something to the table. If everyone uses their toolkit as best they can, that'll maximize chances of survival in a crisis situation.

[Cen]

I think they were thinking of balance in truth, but stopped with just the mage in this regard. I seem to remember a good dev interview about mages. Root should have been limited to druid / shaman imo.

What I also would have loved to see for balance:
-Clarity to wizards only
-Slow formula to be revisited (is too OP), requires reagent
-When charm breaks the spell emits an AoE that stuns PCs (or maybe mob is raged, immune to spells for 10secs on break)
-No pets in any form accept weapons or items
-No recharging
-Snare as Ranger only, requires reagent
-Don't go waaaaay overboard come Kunark with melee weapon ratios
-No mend for monks
-FD has 10min cooldown, also has max duration
-Backstab should have a general ceiling and not tied to weapon strength (evade as a cooldown ability similar to FD)
-more "cursed" items please (i.e. great weapon ratio but proc strips you of a buff or something like that)
-more "cursed" buffs while we're at it (top level haste also drains down HP lich style)
-more holy / unholy sword options for knight classes, very proc / situational based

Ahhh to dream...

Still was hella fun playing launch day, no one cared about the above, just went off to explore a new world and have adventure.

I like some of that. I always thought it was nonsensical that monks get feign death..

thats totally something a rogue would do.

[derpcake2]

Original EQ devs didn't have a clue, and its more luck then anything that the game turned out as it did.

[Swish]

Original EQ devs didn't have a clue

Every class found a home though, WoW had half the classes and group comps were the same old shit a lot of the time.

EQ keeps it interesting, some of the best groups are of 3+ classes who aren't supposed to be well suited but the group finds a way to make it work. Rogues pulling, rangers tanking, druid/paladin working together on heals, wizards actually getting some group time... ;)

[Cen]

A lot of folks dont realize that paladins get the big dick heals too its just no specialization. The mana pool on wisdom isnt bad either

[Glasken]

I like some of that. I always thought it was nonsensical that monks get feign death..

thats totally something a rogue would do.


Funny, I always thought it would have been a great ranger ability. Fooling bears and such.

[Crevex]

Rogues should really have a 'vanish' effect that removes them from combat and makes them invis.

[Vaarsuvius]

Rogues should really have a 'vanish' effect that removes them from combat and makes them invis.


Wrong MMO, you might want to try a more cartoonist and lazy teenager friendly one 😁

[Smellybuttface]

-No mend for monks
-FD has 10min cooldown, also has max duration

I liked some of the ones posted, but these two would basically strip Monk’s of most of their utility. Mend and Feign are both in keeping with the lore of a Monk. As Monk’s have become masters of their bodily and physical processes, they can slow their heart rate down to a minuscule amount, thus appearing as if “dead.”

Mend follows the same train of thought, using Ki. These classes were largely based off of their D&D counterparts. From the D&D 5th edition manual:

“Monks make careful study of a magical energy that most monastic traditions call ki. This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse—specifically, the element that flows through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies’ physical capabilities”

[Sunderfury]

Monk FD with a 10 sec refresh or whatever is just plain lame and OP. Ruins immersion when same mob sees you flop 10 times in a row and doesn't think to just rip your guts out.

Should have been used as a way to save your ass while soloing or in a bad train / wipe.

Would definitely make splitting much much harder, which would make encounters and general group play more interesting IMO.

Even if mend stays in from a lore perspective, should be same timer as LoH / HT.

Making the abilities more situational, monk would remain a high damage class with some cool abilities and not very reliant on gear.

[Evets]

Mages get root, it is called an earth pet, next.

What I was going to say.

[ldgo86]

Monk FD with a 10 sec refresh or whatever is just plain lame and OP. Ruins immersion when same mob sees you flop 10 times in a row and doesn't think to just rip your guts out.

Should have been used as a way to save your ass while soloing or in a bad train / wipe.

Would definitely make splitting much much harder, which would make encounters and general group play more interesting IMO.

Even if mend stays in from a lore perspective, should be same timer as LoH / HT.

Making the abilities more situational, monk would remain a high damage class with some cool abilities and not very reliant on gear.

I loved your list of various class changes I saw a while back. I wish there was a classic-ish server with those rebalances..

[branamil]

Because in hindsight the classes were comically unbalanced. In 1999 They didn't have much examples to know how screwed up they would be.

[cd288]

Monk FD with a 10 sec refresh or whatever is just plain lame and OP. Ruins immersion when same mob sees you flop 10 times in a row and doesn't think to just rip your guts out.

I mean, you could make this argument about a million mechanics in the game...

[uygi]

Dang, Sunderfury would have made a game so hard it’d make Green look comically easy. The ideas definitely would round the game out more the way the original devs intended. FD was intended to be an oh-shit ability, not a pulling tool.

Slow/snare being way more restricted and requiring reagents would be such a radical change, force a lot more sacrifice in composition. I like people having to make trade offs, which is why I’ve always liked the “cursed” items/spells idea. So few cursed items and they aren’t usually worth equipping: adamantite band is only for leveling when you don’t need MR, AoN is good INT/MR but nobody is gonna realistically wear it, nobody uses weapons that the proc damages the caster (rains).

WTB Sunderfury99?

[Bigsham]

Rogues got escape at pop

[Frug]

Ruins immersion ...

In EQ. Hahahah.... riiiiight.