Rules for listing at a non-/list camp

[Smellybuttface]

I wanted to try and clarify the rules for this before potentially posting this in an RnF thread...

This is second-hand information, but trying to get some idea how this works. Hadden camp had two people in line. Individual who was #1 on the list looted his earring, and was going to pass it to the next person on the list but they weren't there. Now the rules as I understand it is that the next person on the list need only be present when the next placeholder/Hadden spawns (which is on a 6-hour spawn). #3 on the list was present at the camp during this time, but evidently (by the rules) couldn't take over the camp even though the next in line hadn't actually showed up yet.

Now cut to 6 hours later, the #2 person shows up prior to the spawn and kills Hadden. He gets his earring. However, SOME sort of altercation occurred between this individual and the person next on the list, and the one who just looted the earring claimed that because HE now had the camp, he could pass it to whoever he wants (thus effectively removing the next person who was on the list, who had been waiting at the camp for around 16 hours already).

Even though this isn't a /list camp, I'm assuming someone can't just "remove" the next person on the list, even if they have some sort of problem with them. They have to honor the list that was in place.

Am I misunderstanding the rules for a non-list camped list? I don't think the #1 on the list can just arbitrarily "remove" someone in order to give it to someone else of their choosing, because there was a list for that camp already in place.

Appreciate any advice or clarity you can provide.

[aspomwell]

Person #2 is not wrong, but he is an asshole.

edit to clarify: The precedent set (http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules) does not make any mention of a list, just that he's campable and you don't need to stick around afk for 6 hours to do it. The camp rules also 'state' that the person currently holding the camp can hand it over to anyone he wants, but he has to name a name when asked.

[Wallicker]

Unfortunately the asshole is correct in this situation as far as any other rulings enforced by a GM I have seen. Name and shame please.

[Tenudil]

Unfortunately the asshole is correct in this situation as far as any other rulings enforced by a GM I have seen. Name and shame please.

I can tell you that you won't care to know the name is in your guild. Can also add the he left the zone while on the list, then came back and kept "his" spot. Then this happened.

[Ashenden]

If #2 wasn't there to obtain the camp from #1 before #1 left the zone, it is #3's camp at that point. He doesn't have until the mob spawns to show up. What on earf.

"The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp."

[Wallicker]

I can tell you that you won't care to know the name is in your guild. Can also add the he left the zone while on the list, then came back and kept "his" spot. Then this happened.

Name and Shame!

[damus1]

As far as I know the person 'camping' him has to maintain presence, if #2 was offline when #1 left, and #3 was sitting there -- it should be theirs. Otherwise whats preventing the camper from logging to another char and coming back once every 6 hours? I know this runs counter to how other camps work, but with the long respawn I always thought this was the case for hadden.

[Kirdan]

...just that he's campable and you don't need to stick around afk for 6 hours to do it.

uh no, you do need to stick around in zone for it to remain camped, you don't get to camp it just by logging in before it spawns unless there's nobody there when you log in

[Tenudil]

uh no, you do need to stick around in zone for it to remain camped, you don't get to camp it just by logging in before it spawns unless there's nobody there when you log in


How about not the 1st spot? Just holding your position in line? That's the real question here.

[aspomwell]

uh no, you do need to stick around in zone for it to remain camped, you don't get to camp it just by logging in before it spawns unless there's nobody there when you log in

I have to admit I've never camped him and don't plan on it, but the 'rule' listed on the link above is ambiguous at best:

Is campable, to get camp you must either A) have previously killed Hadden or B) be the first person waiting at his spawn point

Does A take precedence over B? I would assume so since they ordered it that way. What happens when person 1 killed him 6 hours ago and logs in with 5 minutes to go and person 2 is there? Which one takes precedence?

Not trying to fight, just trying (poorly) to interpret ambiguous rules.

[DMN]

Well, since this is one of the lore camps where you can't continue to camp it after you get the drop, at that point the camp would be open if person number 1 refused to give the camp to the number 3 person. Essentially 3 would have inherited the camp unless there was another player waiting nearby. If there was another player waiting nearby at the same time the camp became open, it's now FTE. And yes the original guywho was number 2 could come back for that FTE and win it.

[zillabunny]

NAME AND SHAME!

[Kirdan]

I have to admit I've never camped him and don't plan on it, but the 'rule' listed on the link above is ambiguous at best:

Is campable, to get camp you must either A) have previously killed Hadden or B) be the first person waiting at his spawn point

Does A take precedence over B? I would assume so since they ordered it that way. What happens when person 1 killed him 6 hours ago and logs in with 5 minutes to go and person 2 is there? Which one takes precedence?

Not trying to fight, just trying (poorly) to interpret ambiguous rules.

What you're quoting off the wiki is someone's summary of the rule, it's not authoritative. Read the actual CSR quote about it and it becomes much clearer:

Hadden is campable.

Just because you have the last time of death and login does not mean that you automatically get the camp. If someone is there you should use common sense and see if they are camping Hadden. If they are, then move along and find something else to do. You are free to check back later to see if the camp is open. This is the same as most other camps in outdoor open areas.

In regards to AFK, you are allowed to go AFK for a reasonable amount of time in between spawns as long as you are there when the MOB spawns.

Finally, a word on FTE and camp disputes. When camp disputes are petitioned we are seldom presented with hard evidence. Essentially these are he said she said type petitions. More often than not, staff becomes involved after the fact. This means we are having to weigh the stories of the stakeholders along with any evidence. Server logs do often come into play. If a player or group is flagged for kill stealing it can muddy the waters.

You still have to follow camp rules to hold a camp, you can't leave the zone or log out and expect to hold the camp unless nobody else is there when you return.

[Smellybuttface]

Update: it seems the number #2 (who took over the camp) and the #3 (who had been waiting there the entire time for like 19 hours) came to some sort of equanimous ‘meeting of the minds.’ As much as I’d like to name/shame, I don’t want to jeopardize #3’s getting the camp.

If anything changes and something sours here, I will gladly make an RnF complete with screenshots and a definite Name and Shame. Thanks all for your advice and counsel.

[Tenudil]

Update: it seems the number #2 (who took over the camp) and the #3 (who had been waiting there the entire time for like 19 hours) came to some sort of equanimous ‘meeting of the minds.’ As much as I’d like to name/shame, I don’t want to jeopardize #3’s getting the camp.

If anything changes and something sours here, I will gladly make an RnF complete with screenshots and a definite Name and Shame. Thanks all for your advice and counsel.

This basically. Also some input for the future on if it's acceptable to hold spots other than first place while not afk but out of the zone entirely. While others stay in the zone at the camp behind said person. Said person just coming back for every spawn and keeping his spot.

[DMN]

Update: it seems the number #2 (who took over the camp) and the #3 (who had been waiting there the entire time for like 19 hours) came to some sort of equanimous ‘meeting of the minds.’ As much as I’d like to name/shame, I don’t want to jeopardize #3’s getting the camp.

If anything changes and something sours here, I will gladly make an RnF complete with screenshots and a definite Name and Shame. Thanks all for your advice and counsel.

You said the number 2 got his earring.


This is starting to smell like BS.

[Tenudil]

You said the number 2 got his earring.


This is starting to smell like BS.

Hadden had a fishingpole, the player didn't realize that this meant he didn't have an earring. 2nd person, it sounds like he implied or the other person assumed that he got the drop and tried to hand it off to someone else that was behind both there in say. Suffice to say there was a lot of drama left out here. But no intentional misleading.

[Madbad]

One may hand camp to whomever they please as long as that person is present when they leave.

When asked one must name the person to which they intend to pass camp. If that person is not present when the first leaves the camp becomes FFA.

One need not wait in zone as long as one is present for the hand off.

Correct me.

[Tethler]

If the camp is contested, and you're up for the camp you need to park your ass there and wait too. You can't just show up 6 hours later and get the mob when someone else has been sitting there alone for 6 hours.

[gnomishfirework]

You can't have a list where no one is actually present at the camp. The person who was camping must remain until the next person arrives, otherwise it becomes open.

[Tilien]

#1 has to wait for #2 to arrive. What if #3 wasn't at camp and some random shows up and the camp is uncontested

Random waits 6 hours and #2 shows up saying the camp is his. Random had no way of knowing there was a list if no one mantains presence, and #2 could just be lying about a list.

[DMN]

#1 has to wait for #2 to arrive. What if #3 wasn't at camp and some random shows up and the camp is uncontested

Random waits 6 hours and #2 shows up saying the camp is his. Random had no way of knowing there was a list if no one mantains presence, and #2 could just be lying about a list.

If there is no legitimate handoff, then the camp is open to whoever shows up first. If multiple people are there waiting or show up essentially at same time it would be FTE. And since a FTE camp is not considered held by anyone, more people could show up later to try to get the camp.

It would be considered a giant asshole move though if you are trying to FTE someone who was already legit waiting for hours at a camp. Just because the rules are on your side doesn't make you any less of an asshole.

[Frug]

and #2 could just be lying about a list.

Surely no one in EQ would do that. /s

[Eldari]

Recently had the same issue at Platinum ring in befallen. Camp holder told me I was next on the list, I ported people around for 3 hours. When Gynok spawned she messaged me that I was up (happened to be standing in WC at the time) I ran inside and watched her kill him and get her platinum ring. She told me I could have the camp but that a monk head been feign deathed near the camp for about 30min.

I had her message the monk and let him know that there was already a list, she was the holder, and was handing it off to me. Monk precedes to kill PH about 10 minutes later, so I petitioned. Guide came and said that once I was placed on the list, if I "die, log out, zone, or disconnect" I'm immediately taken off the list and he gave the camp to the monk.

I asked about these camp rules being cited in this thread, specifically the one that says you must be there during handoff, and prior to the next PH. He said A. The wiki is run by players not staff, B. that was from a previous staff member and each member makes their own decision, and C. his ruling is final

Long story short, don't assume you can trust the written rules, if you aren't willing to sit at the camp from the moment you are put on the list and hope you have good internet, dont bother camping.