Guy not giving us camp

[Rions Shaman]

Went to Highpass to start an orc camp there was a higher lvl camping the named ones, and allowed us to kill the other orcs. Asked when he would be done with the named so we can take over. 15 mins later said in /ooc trying to sell the named orc camp.

https://imgur.com/a/PGFOu22

[Rions Shaman]

https://imgur.com/b7Yj8XO

[Rions Shaman]

https://imgur.com/b7Yj8XO

[indiscriminate_hater]

Truly a master of his craft

[DMN]

Went to Highpass to start an orc camp there was a higher lvl camping the named ones, and allowed us to kill the other orcs. Asked when he would be done with the named so we can take over. 15 mins later said in /ooc trying to sell the named orc camp.

https://imgur.com/a/PGFOu22

And?

[Wonkie]

Lol camp rights

[Smellybuttface]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346917

Pamela strikes again.

[Tilien]

This is against the rules, if you ask to take a camp the person must immediately tell you who they want to hand it off to, if they do not have another person in mind then you are next for that camp:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules

[Kohedron]

Sounds like standard practice for people who have been playing the same game for the last 20 years

[Wallicker]

Surprised pamila hander son can even solo highpass orcs at lvl 50

[Albanwr]

Pamila has really turned into something else. He used to be a cool dude, then green hit and hes acts like this. What a guy.

[DMN]

This is against the rules, if you ask to take a camp the person must immediately tell you who they want to hand it off to, if they do not have another person in mind then you are next for that camp:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules

Nothing against the rules shown in the screenshots have been shown. I'm sure if OP had been told he was next for camp, it would have found its way into the screenshots.

[Tilien]

Nothing against the rules shown in the screenshots have been shown. I'm sure if OP had been told he was next for camp, it would have found its way into the screenshots.

Then you didn't read the rules.

If A has camp and B wants camp then either:

A must tell B the exact name of who is next

OR

B is next.

A (Pamila) did not name a specific name and instead tried to find a buyer for the camp, therefore B was next.

[DMN]

The question is if asking when someone is done with the camp qualifies as saying "i want to be next for the camp is no one else is waiting". Keep in mind, , you can always say "no i'm not telling when i'm done with them camp".

Now, if he had said "I want to be next for the camp if no one else is waiting". you cant get out of that one.

It's hairsplitting, of course, but that is exactly the hallmark of elf lawyering.

[Tilien]

The question is if asking when someone is done with the camp qualifies as saying "i want to be next for the camp is no one else is waiting". Keep in mind, , you can always say "no i'm not telling when i'm done with them camp".

Now, if he had said "I want to be next for the camp if no one else is waiting". you cant get out of that one.

It's hairsplitting, of course, but that is exactly the hallmark of elf lawyering.

"no I'm not telling when I'm done" is allowed, sure.

But also the group is killing his PHers for him, and your argument is that they were too vague about their intentions to take the camp?

[Skarne]

Sure is a dick move but not against the rules. A guy like that will stay there out of spite until he passes out before giving over the camp if his goal is to be paid for the rights.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Once you have their money ... never give it back.
Never pay more for an acquisition than you have to.
Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity.
A man is only worth the sum of his possessions.
Small print leads to large risk.
Opportunity plus instinct equals profit.
Greed is eternal.
Anything worth doing is worth doing for money.
A deal is a deal ... until a better one comes along.
A contract is a contract is a contract
A elf without profit is no elf at all.
Satisfaction is not guaranteed.
Never place friendship above profit.
A wise man can hear profit in the wind.
Nothing is more important than your health--except for your money.
There's nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman.
Never make fun of an elfs mother ... insult something he cares about instead.
It never hurts to suck up to the boss.
War is good for business.
Peace is good for business.
She can touch your pointy ears but never your platinum.
Profit is its own reward.
Never confuse wisdom with luck.
Expand, or die.
Don't trust an elf wearing a better breastplate than your own.
The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife.
Females and finance don't mix.
Never ask when you can take.
Good customers are as rare as platinum -- treasure them.
There is no substitute for success.
Free advice is seldom cheap.
Keep your lies consistent.
The riskier the road, the greater the profit.
Win or lose, there's always Halfling jum jum.
Home is where the heart is ... but the Odus are made of platinum.
Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
Beware of the High Elf greed for knowledge.
The flimsier the product, the higher the price.
Never let the competition know what you're thinking.
Ask not what your profits can do for you, but what you can do for your profits.
Females and finances don't mix.
Enough ... is never enough.
Every Elf has his price.
Trust is the biggest liability of all.
Nature decays, but platinum lasts forever.
Sleep can interfere with profit.
Faith moves mountains ... of inventory.
There is no honour in poverty.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Treat people in your debt like family ... exploit them.
Never have sex with the boss's sister.
Always have sex with the boss.
You can't free a fish from water.
Everything is for sale, even friendship.
Even a blind man can recognize the glow of platinum.
You can't make a deal if you're dead.
Wives serve, brothers inherit.
Only fools pay retail.
There's nothing wrong with charity ... as long as it winds up in your pocket.
Even in the worst of times someone turns a profit.
Whisper your way to success.
Know your enemies ... but do business with them always.
Not even dishonesty can tarnish the shine of profit.
Let others keep their reputation. You keep their money.
Hear all, trust nothing.
Never cheat a Halfling ... unless you're sure you can get away with it.
It's always good business to know about new customers before they walk in the door.
The justification for profit is profit.
New customers are like Wood Elves. They can be succulent, but sometimes they can bite back.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer.
Employees are rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them.
Never begin a negotiation on an empty stomach.
You can't free a fish from water.
Always know what you're buying.
Beware the man who doesn't make time for Short Beer.
platinum lasts longer than lust.
You can't buy fate.
Never be afraid to mislabel a product.
More is good ... all is better.
A wife is a luxury ... a smart accountant is a necessity.
A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience.
Never allow doubt to tarnish your lust for platinum.
When in doubt, lie.
Deep down everyone's a Halfling.
No good deed ever goes unpunished.

[Horza]

Seal Team is seeming more and more classy.

[Tethler]

I've heard of selling loot rights, but selling rights to camp something? Really?

[DMN]

I've heard of selling loot rights, but selling rights to camp something? Really?

No rule against it.

And you know what they say. Money talks, you walk.

[Tethler]

No rule against it.



Yeah, it's just gross is all.

[BlackBellamy]

Yeah, it's just gross is all.

Wait whaa? It's a specific rule. If someone wants camp you have to either name next or they're next. He didn't name next, so OPs group was next. It's a binary choice there is no selling or waiting or whatever option. Name or next.

[gherron]

I wish they’d rename the “Play Nice Policy” to “Bare Minimum Conduct”...

[Swish]

"rules"

"against the rules", "breaking the rules"...


Sounds like you all want more rules :o :o

[thesoundofmerk]

pamila is a scum bag, has been since green launch, had so many run in with that dirt bag being a dick and just pushing people around. she preys on low level camps too for some reason

[thesoundofmerk]

Seal team is not a bad guild, they just have horrible vetting for some reason, and horrible enforcement, they want masses, and with masses and being first comes plenty of assholes, if you dont at least cut the most outlandishly dickheaded assholes out , then you are gonna get a really bad rep from maybe 4 or 5 people ruining the name of the entire guild.

Same thing happened with Dark men, Mostly everyone in that guild rocked and were super cool nice fair people, but they had maybe 3 people they let run rampent and curse people out and act a fool like Lestoor and his tunnel goonies, and it ruined the rep to the point i was being rejected from groups for a guild name. Guilds gotta cut the biggest losers or it really does hurt reputation, unless you just don't care and want raid numbers... but its gonna come back to bite you in the ass when that person fucks over the guild for a big ticket item or something worse happens.

In the long run.. you lose more people then you gain by keeping people like that because your Rep excludes some really good players from joining your guild that normally would love to be top guild material, they will join a secondary force with less assholes involved. But yeah, Pamilia is a true die hard dickhead

[Ashenden]

Seal team

Pamila was kicked out of Seal Team's app process shortly after the first RNF thread came to light, so I dunno why you are bringing us up in this thread.

[Tethler]

Wait whaa? It's a specific rule. If someone wants camp you have to either name next or they're next. He didn't name next, so OPs group was next. It's a binary choice there is no selling or waiting or whatever option. Name or next.

In that tiny snip of a screenshot we didn't see if any list was mentioned, and rule lawyers might argue that OP didn't explicitly ask to be added to list, just "tell me when you finish." Any rational person would understand the implied meaning there, but rational people and p99....you know.

[White_knight]

Lol, 21 year old emulated server populated by 35 year old white male adults selling camp rights to a mob that drops DA Idols.

Never change.

Never change.

[Smellybuttface]

Lol, 21 year old emulated server populated by 35 year old white male adults selling camp rights to a mob that drops DA Idols.

Never change.

Never change.

I don’t get why so many people highlight the fact that it’s a “21 year old emulated server.” The game could have released yesterday and the arguments made would still stand. It’s people’s time being used/abused, who cares how old the game is.

[quido]

Is the "name or next" thing a real rule or did a guide use that viewpoint in a single instance? I see no mention of it in Project 1999 Play Nice Policy (PNP) - Server Rules and Expectations (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349). The wiki is not run or maintained by the staff and should not really be considered a reliable source for rules, in my opinion.

[Canelek]

The “immediately” part is what invalidates it all.

Use some fucking etiquette for Pete’s sake, but there is nothing about immediate response with camp successor.

Let’s not be that deep in the asshole pit, eh?

[Tilien]

Is the "name or next" thing a real rule or did a guide use that viewpoint in a single instance? I see no mention of it in Project 1999 Play Nice Policy (PNP) - Server Rules and Expectations (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349). The wiki is not run or maintained by the staff and should not really be considered a reliable source for rules, in my opinion.

It is from an ex GM's post on the forum and the post says:

"Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time."

Implying the GM believed he was giving general guidance and not specific guidance.

[Anxarcule]

Honestly I wish when you had such a clear case of douchbaggery these kind of people would be suspended and eventually banned - maybe not from this one case specifically but also the post Mignart made. Yes you can argue that it isn't explicitly stated "I want camp when you leave" but with a little critical thinking you can see that OP wanted to be next - they weren't asking how much longer Pamila would be just for general knowledge.

I was pretty bummed with the merge due to things being overcrowded but honestly just about every person I've met has been decent, polite, and friendly, including high levels in the l33t guilds - it has been pleasantly surprising in fact. Getting rid of assholes like Pamila will only make this community more pleasant and enjoyable for all.

[kjs86z]

doesnt happen on blue

come join the cool and normal folks

[quido]

It is from an ex GM's post on the forum and the post says:

"Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time."

Implying the GM believed he was giving general guidance and not specific guidance.

Cite source please

[DMN]

It is from an ex GM's post on the forum and the post says:

"Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time."

Implying the GM believed he was giving general guidance and not specific guidance.


Where the fuck is the link?

[Tilien]

Cite source please

I did but you and DMN never bothered to open the wiki page because it's the wiki. God forbid it have an exact quote from a GM which specifically says that his ruling is a general rule the wiki provides a hyper link to the exact post the GM made.

But okay, here is the forum post:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1652719#post1652719

[cd288]

Pamila being an asshole again. Unsurprising

[quido]

I did but you and DMN never bothered to open the wiki page because it's the wiki. God forbid it have an exact quote from a GM which specifically says that his ruling is a general rule the wiki provides a hyper link to the exact post the GM made.

But okay, here is the forum post:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1652719#post1652719

I would not consider a 2014 post from Derubael on this subject to be binding. The Project 1999 Play Nice Policy (PNP) - Server Rules and Expectations (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349), written in May of last year, makes no mention of this supposed rule. Are we to believe every inconsistent and once-off forum post made by former staff represents a standing rule on the server? I fundamentally and vehemently disagree with such a notion.

[Zal22]

J eremy bitch tits is correct

[Nirgon]

Surprised pamila hander son can even solo highpass orcs at lvl 50

Good ole Palmela Handerson

[Tilien]

I would not consider a 2014 post from Derubael on this subject to be binding. The Project 1999 Play Nice Policy (PNP) - Server Rules and Expectations (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349), written in May of last year, makes no mention of this supposed rule. Are we to believe every inconsistent and once-off forum post made by former staff represents a standing rule on the server? I fundamentally and vehemently disagree with such a notion.

From your link:
"Players are subject to these supplementary rules while playing on Project 1999. While by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and dont's on Project 1999"



Sorry your supplementary, non-all-inclusive rules were supplementary and non-all-inclusive.

[BlackBellamy]

I would not consider a 2014 post from Derubael on this subject to be binding. The Project 1999 Play Nice Policy (PNP) - Server Rules and Expectations (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349), written in May of last year, makes no mention of this supposed rule. Are we to believe every inconsistent and once-off forum post made by former staff represents a standing rule on the server? I fundamentally and vehemently disagree with such a notion.

You can disagree with whatever amount of passion you want. You can discount Derubael's explicit statement that the rules are "Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time" because it's 6 years-old, but in jurisprudence laws and precedent continue to apply without an expiration date. You can also discount his statement because of his "former" status, but personally I would take the advice of a long-time retired jurist over that of someone just appointed to the bench. Your implication that he no longer knows what he's talking about or that the rules suddenly and radically changed after his departure departs from reasonable expectations and places the onus on you to produce facts in evidence as to why his word no longer matters.

Perhaps you should test your theory in practice by claiming a camp and refusing to name the next camper.

[drdrakes]

You can disagree with whatever amount of passion you want. You can discount Derubael's explicit statement that the rules are "Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time" because it's 6 years-old, but in jurisprudence laws and precedent continue to apply without an expiration date. You can also discount his statement because of his "former" status, but personally I would take the advice of a long-time retired jurist over that of someone just appointed to the bench. Your implication that he no longer knows what he's talking about or that the rules suddenly and radically changed after his departure departs from reasonable expectations and places the onus on you to produce facts in evidence as to why his word no longer matters.

Perhaps you should test your theory in practice by claiming a camp and refusing to name the next camper.

Oh my.

[Bardp1999]

HAND SOLO *wack wack*

[Wonkie]

You can disagree with whatever amount of passion you want. You can discount Derubael's explicit statement that the rules are "Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time" because it's 6 years-old, but in jurisprudence laws and precedent continue to apply without an expiration date. You can also discount his statement because of his "former" status, but personally I would take the advice of a long-time retired jurist over that of someone just appointed to the bench. Your implication that he no longer knows what he's talking about or that the rules suddenly and radically changed after his departure departs from reasonable expectations and places the onus on you to produce facts in evidence as to why his word no longer matters.

Perhaps you should test your theory in practice by claiming a camp and refusing to name the next camper.

you're really virtue signalling here :)

[quido]

I'd like to hear about even a single example of a GM/Guide saying that is how we operate at any time in the last few years. I certainly won't abide by it unless some server staff explicitly tells me I must. At best I think we could consider such a mandate an optional player-agreed-upon guideline.

Is every trash rule from 2009-2014 under which we used to operate also still valid because some former flunkie made a post about it? I wonder what we could dig up from that period on the forums. Or are previous rules at some point superseded by a new framework of rules, such as we have in May of 2019? Perhaps not all-inclusive, but if the "name next" nonsense was a real rule, I'm pretty sure it would have made it into this document.

[Tilien]

I'd like to hear about even a single example of a GM/Guide saying that is how we operate at any time in the last few years. I certainly won't abide by it unless some server staff explicitly tells me I must. At best I think we could consider such a mandate an optional player-agreed-upon guideline.

Is every trash rule from 2009-2014 under which we used to operate also still valid because some former flunkie made a post about it? I wonder what we could dig up from that period on the forums. Or are previous rules at some point superseded by a new framework of rules, such as we have in May of 2019? Perhaps not all-inclusive, but if the "name next" nonsense was a real rule, I'm pretty sure it would have made it into this document.

Oh, you have the actual, fully inclusive rules as per May of 2019? Can you please link, you accidentally linked the "supplemental, non inclusive" set of rules before. Misunderstanding.

[Rions Shaman]

In that tiny snip of a screenshot we didn't see if any list was mentioned, and rule lawyers might argue that OP didn't explicitly ask to be added to list, just "tell me when you finish." Any rational person would understand the implied meaning there, but rational people and p99....you know.

Hey, thanks for your reply.

By no means am I a veteran at this game, and this is my first problem wanting to get a camp. So, I thought I would try to get some advice.

I'm glad they you would have been able to understand,, and would have been a decent person and allowed us to have the camp. I didn"t understand that I would have to ask the camp holder like a God damn quest NPC for the rights to the camp or they wouldn't understand.

I also haven't had any experience with a GM, how would they have handled the situation?

In my opinion, I think as Pamela tried to sell the camp. That was
the camp holder saying that they were all done, and we should have been able to take the camp from him at the point on.

[red_demonman]

Selling loot rights to highpass orcs? Yikes. A new low.

[Horza]

Selling loot rights to highpass orcs? Yikes. A new low.

Seal Team's lowness hasn't even begun to peak.

[suptoofs]

Seal Team's lowness hasn't even begun to peak.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/133ovdtvkZ0i0E/source.gif

[quido]

It provides a suitable foundation by which the player can determine what activities are appropriate.

I would say that Llandris misspoke and these rules are not in fact supplemental. Granted they could not foresee every possible scenario and account for it, hence the indication that it is not exhaustive, but I would not consider once-off 6-year-old forum posts from crackpot disgraced former GMs to be solid guidelines for standing server rules, despite how much you wish for that to be the case.

[suptoofs]

Jeremy you still play?

[quido]

Jeremy you still play?

Yes I am among the Erudian Brotherhood.

[beversami]

Don't let this distract you from the fact that Dark Men of Odus is the biggest dog whistle on P99.

[Tuurin]

Man this Pamela is thiiiirsty for the plats...

[Jack N]

<Dark Men of Odus> is the finest guild of which I have ever been a part. An outstanding brotherhood of comradery and benevolence, I could not imagine my time on Green without our fraternal order.

[Horza]

Don't let this distract you from the fact that Dark Men of Odus is the biggest dog whistle on P99.

Aren't dog whistles supposed to be subtle?

[Ashenden]

Seal Team's lowness hasn't even begun to peak.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Pamila was a trial in the guild for only two days. He has been removed. Goodluck with your petition.

These constant attacks on Seal Team because of a guy who was a trial member for a total of a couple of days weeks ago could also be considered pretty low.

[Tilien]

I would say that Llandris misspoke and these rules are not in fact supplemental. Granted they could not foresee every possible scenario and account for it, hence the indication that it is not exhaustive, but I would not consider once-off 6-year-old forum posts from crackpot disgraced former GMs to be solid guidelines for standing server rules, despite how much you wish for that to be the case.

Sorry your supplemental, non-inclusive rules are supplemental and non inclusive.

[Wallicker]

Pamila was kicked out of Seal Team's app process shortly after the first RNF thread came to light, so I dunno why you are bringing us up in this thread.

Yeah this dude didn’t even make it into the guild, but everyone still blaming ST for his behavior lol.

[cd288]

I would say that Llandris misspoke and these rules are not in fact supplemental. Granted they could not foresee every possible scenario and account for it, hence the indication that it is not exhaustive, but I would not consider once-off 6-year-old forum posts from crackpot disgraced former GMs to be solid guidelines for standing server rules, despite how much you wish for that to be the case.

Gonna go ahead and trust that Llandris meant what he said and didn't mispeak rather than trusting the word of some random forum poster as solid guidelines for standing server rules.