Originally Posted by nilbog

[Darkfuneral]

Originally Posted by nilbog
I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy.


Nothing about p99 is classic

[Daloon]

Unrooted dragons was best era.

[Smellybuttface]

Originally Posted by nilbog
I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy.


Nothing about p99 is classic

What’s the point of recreating Classic EQ if it doesn’t make people happy? Granted we all play at his mercy, but his quote just seems counter intuitive. What if the entire P99 community asked him to change the way ZEM’s work in the game? Would he do it because a massive majority asked for this change, or would he not because “it’s not classic” ?

[Mblake81]

Unrooted dragons was best era.

Griff eating noobs is best but reading Daloon got me like..

https://i.imgur.com/0Mstn8E.jpg

[ZiggyTheMuss]

What’s the point of recreating Classic EQ if it doesn’t make people happy? Granted we all play at his mercy, but his quote just seems counter intuitive. What if the entire P99 community asked him to change the way ZEM’s work in the game? Would he do it because a massive majority asked for this change, or would he not because “it’s not classic” ?

Because it’s not about what you want, it’s about what Nilbog wants. He is doing this for himself, not for you. What if what if what if, refer back to Nilbog’s quote for the answer. I salute him for not catering to the whiney masses.

[Canelek]

And you all will continue to feel entitled until they discontinue free wireless internet at fast food establishments and methadone clinics.

[branamil]

It's funny that you call p99 classic but there are so many non-classic changes.

P99 - selectively classic ™️

[loramin]

What’s the point of recreating Classic EQ if it doesn’t make people happy? Granted we all play at his mercy, but his quote just seems counter intuitive. What if the entire P99 community asked him to change the way ZEM’s work in the game? Would he do it because a massive majority asked for this change, or would he not because “it’s not classic” ?

Well the funny thing about that is, Nilbog purposefully makes some ZEMs unclassic here: it's a fairly unique example of him prioritizing classic environment (ie. players not knowing exact ZEMs) over classic mechanics.

So ironically, while I don't know about the whole server, there's a decent number of us who want classic ZEMs ... and it's Nilbog, of all people, standing in the way of them.

But like Ziggy said:
Because it’s not about what you want, it’s about what Nilbog wants.

When I put in the decade or so of effort to build a well-run server, then I'll have a leg to stand on. But until then ... Nilbog gets virtually nothing out of the thousands and thousands of hours he's devoted to letting all of us have near-classic emulated fun.

If getting to have "unclassic but classically mysterious" ZEMs on his server floats his boat, more power to him. I'll just, respectfully, keep trying to change his mind :)

[nilbog]

Nilbog purposefully makes some ZEMs unclassic here: it's a fairly unique example of him prioritizing classic environment (ie. players not knowing exact ZEMs) over classic mechanics.

So ironically, while I don't know about the whole server, there's a decent number of us who want classic ZEMs ... and it's Nilbog, of all people, standing in the way of them.


source?

[KansasComrade]

Yeah, post a thread about it! That’ll change everything!

[Hideousclaw]

source?

[Ripqozko]

source?

[cd288]

source?

Lmao thank you! He says this all the time, glad to see the proof that it's untrue now

[TheDudeAbides]

source?

12227

12228

[Jubal]

Originally Posted by nilbog
I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy.


Enacts ultra enforced prohibition on classic EC tunnel gambling entertainment; makes people unhappy.

[tyrant49333]

countdown to forum ban for staff bashing

[Izmael]

Can you give a thread a negative star rating?

[Smellybuttface]

source?

Loramin I'm afraid you lost some major credibility points on the forums :(

[Darkfuneral]

P99 isn't what it used to be, all these changes including rooted dragons and lists has nothing to do with classic Everquest. Sadly dragons weren't even rooted in live velious but its what Nilbog wants so what can we do /shrug

[Darkfuneral]

My intention here isn't to bash staff Im just being honest but if you feel like I should be banned so be it

[Tecmos Deception]

My intention here isn't to bash staff Im just being honest but if you feel like I should be banned so be it

Nothing about p99 is classic

i'M bEiNg tOtAllY hOneST

[Horza]

My intention here isn't to bash staff Im just being honest but if you feel like I should be banned so be it

A man can dream though.

[Darkfuneral]

Nothing about p99 is classic :D

[loramin]

OMG I got his attention! /em squeals

https://i.imgur.com/DcxsHDK.gif

source?

I'm going by two things. First, the wiki: if you look at the history of the Recommended Levels and ZEM List (http://wiki.project1999.com/index.php?title=Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List&offset=&limit=500&action=history), you'll see that some version of the same verbiage has been there since 2011!

In the old days of live EQ the server sent the actual ZEM values, which were recorded by studious players. These values were used as a basis for the EQEmu numbers, and so are in place on most stock EQEmu servers. These numbers were never known to have changed over the history of classic EQ live.

The developers of p1999 have stated that they will not publicly release the current ZEM list, in the spirit of classic EQ.

The "stock" values given here, which may be representative as a whole, have definitely been changed in some zones.

When it comes to P99 knowledge, I defer to my elders, and my assumption was that if that was true in 2011, and no one has seen you post a contradiction to it since, then it's probably still true in 2020.

BUT ... if I can infer from your one-word post that that's not the case (please tell me I can), then I would LOVE to correct that 9-year-old incorrect bit of wiki verbiage ... it's just that to my knowledge your one word post here is the entirety of what you've ever said about the matter.

My second "source" would be Kedge. I don't have the evidence handy right now, but I know people have reported the zone having a good ZEM in clasic, and the stock EQ Emu value for it is 100 (which would equate to a 143% increase) .. or at least it is according to the wiki. (I swear I tried digging through the EQEmu GitHub but all I could find were the DB migrations; I don't know where they keep the seeds/fixture data. :()

In any event, it certainly didn't seem to have a 143% mod on Blue when I last leveled there. But I freely admit I haven't researched this: because of my first "source", I really thought your team wasn't interested in any such research.

[loramin]

Loramin I'm afraid you lost some major credibility points on the forums :(

LOL, if I cared about "forum credibility points" I'd ... well I'd probably kill myself.

My previous post explains the logic of my thinking. If Nilbog is willing to break is silence to correct me, I truly don't see that as a loss: I am more than happy to have him "school me", and get more info for us all at my personal expense.

[oqrelord]

Level req's on epics make me sad because I can't de-level myself and start a newgame+

[foxchris509]

I wish the high ZEM zones would rotate monthly or something. Custom content idea for blue!

[Jubal]

/guildwar = classic custom content

[Croco]

I wish the high ZEM zones would rotate monthly or something. Custom content idea for blue!

+1

[Mblake81]

P99 isn't what it used to be, all these changes including rooted dragons and lists has nothing to do with classic Everquest. Sadly dragons weren't even rooted in live velious but its what Nilbog wants so what can we do /shrug

I should be banned

Talking about the good ol days on a 2019er account. Bringing the real honesty on an alt so your main doesn't get nuked? Very immersed pixel protection.

butt hurt losers

https://i.imgur.com/nfTevQm.jpg

[Frostback]

I don't have the evidence handy right now, but I know people have reported the zone having a good ZEM in clasic

Not good enough!

[Nirgon]

Let slate come to da tunnel

Increase his assist radius

Pras Lord Cazic Thule

[Darkfuneral]

Nilbog

[Ravage]

Kedge had the highest ZEM in EQ. Maybe almost 200 if I remember. Was hit by the nerf bat on P99 IRC because people couldn't play nice with the casual scum while power leveling at the zone in if i recall. Swordfishes n all.

[loramin]

Kedge had the highest ZEM in EQ. Maybe almost 200 if I remember. Was hit by the nerf bat on P99 IRC because people couldn't play nice with the casual scum while power leveling at the zone in if i recall. Swordfishes n all.

A friend of mine played in the early days here, and he said Kedg exp was stupidly good ... like 3-4% per kill in the 40s good. That would fit a ZEM of 200, and that clearly doesn't seem classic.

But it seems like maybe there was an over-correction because of that, because as I said Kedge certainly didn't feel like even a ZEM 100 (140%), which is the wiki (presumably based on classic EQEmu data) shows.

Really, the frustrating part about this is ... why would I (or anyone) spend time trying to find evidence that it should have any particular ZEM, if Nilbog won't use it? I don't expect Nilbog to declare "the ZEM for every zone on P99 is _____", but if he could at least say
"I want classic ZEMs on Project 1999, and will consider evidence to make them more classic like I do with everything else", at least then there'd be a reason to.

I want to interpret:

source?

that way, but maybe Nilbog still does want some unclassic ZEMs, and was just calling me out to see if I was complaining about some other ones? C'mon great beloved P99 dictator for life, please, give us those magic words: "Yes, I want classic ZEMs on Project 1999"! :D

[Dolalin]

They haven't even had a patch yet since I wrapped up the Classic ZEMs bug thread, maybe wait for that before you declare they aren't listening Loramin :p

[Swish]

Just remember with every classic change comes people threatening to quit (and not quitting) or asking for some kind of other QoL upgrade like in game maps or something else irrelevant to classic EQ.

[loramin]

They haven't even had a patch yet since I wrapped up the Classic ZEMs bug thread, maybe wait for that before you declare they aren't listening Loramin :p

Please don't take this the wrong way, because I have immense respect for you, but ... you just rolled onto this scene. This is not "Loramin's crusade to insult the devs", this is just Loramin stating how it's been for over half a decade. Prior to your ZEM thread (from what, a month or two ago?), there was ZERO dev interest whatsoever in all things ZEM-related, and again it was "community knowledge" (since 2011!) that they were not interested.

Now to be fair, Nilbog never said "we're making ZEMS unclassic!" ... because Nilbog never says anything ... especially about ZEMS. I mean, even his post here was literally one word ... and it was a question! Literally no one but Nilbog knows what the word "classic" means to him, and whether ANY exception (ZEM or otherwise) qualifies. And he doesn't talk.

I've been a forum addict for five-plus years, plus at one point I went back through old dev posts to compile the Rulings (http://wiki.project1999.com/Rulings) page. I'm fairly confident that if there had been even a single word (even a "sources?") about this topic, I would have seen it ... but I didn't. If you see something (like Kedge's ZEM) stay unclassic on a classic project for that long, and the devs won't talk about it, the logical assumption is: they don't want to fix it (and that's even if I didn't have wiki and forum text going way way back that further supports the idea). And again, read old forum posts: I'm far from the only one to have believed this.

And if you go through those old posts you know what else you'll find? People didn't believe Green would ever exist (let alone Teal) ... and yet you will find me in giant one-sided RnF arguments with people (for years) saying "Blue is beta" with no one believing me.

So ... if I'm willing to argue with the entire rest of the forum community, because I took the dev's word and they didn't ... I really don't think it's fair to characterize me as someone who doesn't listen to, or doesn't believe the devs.

I just believe the proof is in the pudding. For a very long time everything the devs have said and done has at indicated a strong desire to keep the ZEM status quo. Now that the fire of Green and Teal in in Nilbog's belly I want to believe he's interested in classic evidence and classic ZEMs, because like all the other long-timers here I've drunk the classic kool-aid.

But I'm just not going to assume that my hopes and dreams have come true because Nilbog made a one word question post: I'm waiting for him to tell me off here, or (much better yet) answer your thread with a patch, and then I will absolutely believe. But look, four years ago there was more evidence that Green was coming, than there was just a few months back that Nilbog would even consider ZEM changes. Maybe forgive me for wanting to see something before I assume things have done a U-turn after five years?

[Glasken]

The ZEM values we have are not classic. As has been posted on the bug forums, ZEMs were pretty flat throughout the game until random ZEM mods were implemented in luclin.

By all evidence posted, ZEMs throughout most of the game should be 75, with dungeons being 80. Some specific areas went up to 100 such as Kedge Keep, but these were edge cases.

Random ZEMs, and ZEMs higher than 100 came about with the implementation of "Hot Zones", which would be changed frequently. The static, and crazy high ZEMs we have on P99 are like a Hot Zone patch stuck in time, and are out of era for the project.

[kelsoider]

I know it's not classic, but am I alone in thinking that rotating hot zones would be the best solution to the effect of ZEM on certain zones? Maybe it would take too much work to implement.

[Torik]

A friend of mine played in the early days here, and he said Kedg exp was stupidly good ... like 3-4% per kill in the 40s good. That would fit a ZEM of 200, and that clearly doesn't seem classic.

I used my 60 druid with sub-par gear to PL a cleric from 27 to 52. The total session time was 55 hours, including both the cleric and myself eating a few deaths each. I think level 45 and 51 took about 3 hours, with every other level taking significantly less. During this time, most people in the zone either came to kill Phinny or camp the Druid Epic piece. One time, an enc/cleric duo was killing mermaids, but other than that, the zone was empty.

A few months later, I tried to PL a rogue in Kedge and the exp modifier had been greatly reduced. I took him to Upper Guk, and not only was the exp better per kill, but the mobs also hit me much less and much softer than the mobs in Kedge. We then went to Lower Guk, and the exp per mob seemed to be about the same as Kedge. With the hard-hitting mobs and problems with casting in water, I wrote off Kedge as a place to PL people.

I later tried Kedge for regular exp around level 35 or 40 when a group of friends and I rolled alts. First, it was a pain getting everyone EB items. Secondly, splitting the first room was annoying because every fish agros, so it's a lot of zoning back and forth to pull the mobs to the ent, using either snare or calm. After we had the room split the Fierce Impaler spawned and kicked our asses, so someone had to log over to a main to take him out. When we got back-to-back spawns, we decided that we should just go to HHK, which was much better exp.

Kedge is a hard zone because of the difficulty pulling/splitting, casting in water, and also due to the strength of mobs for their level. These aspects made it so difficult for normal exp groups, but almost ideal for PLing. It was sad that it was always empty, because even with the best exp in the game, people didn't view the risk worth the reward. However, with the current[(?) I actually haven't checked it in over a year)] sub-par exp modifier, there is absolutely no reason to exp there anymore.

TL;DR: Kedge is dead.

[Darkfuneral]

Not classic

[Ripqozko]

source?

[Horza]

Make High Keep Classic Again

[cd288]

This is my favorite thread because it's pretty funny watching Loramin have the thing he's said for awhile get directly contradicted by one of the top two people on P99 and now scramble to try and make up some weird arguments and/or try and be like "well he could've meant something else!"

Let it go man, lol

[fuckshit22]

good thing we all hit 50 and got our manastones right before ZEM gets global nerf to 75-80 and manastone gets removed. future of green looks bright like highkeep :cool:

ps right before he died, brad told me manastones should have never been put into the game, and rangers were supposed to crit in melee.

[Darkfuneral]

good thing we all hit 50 and got our manastones right before ZEM gets global nerf to 75-80 and manastone gets removed. future of green looks bright like highkeep :cool:

ps right before he died, brad told me manastones should have never been put into the game, and rangers were supposed to crit in melee.

How did Brad pass away?

[fuckshit22]

How did Brad pass away?

severe ligma.

[mycoolrausch]

I used my 60 druid with sub-par gear to PL a cleric from 27 to 52. The total session time was 55 hours, including both the cleric and myself eating a few deaths each. I think level 45 and 51 took about 3 hours, with every other level taking significantly less. During this time, most people in the zone either came to kill Phinny or camp the Druid Epic piece. One time, an enc/cleric duo was killing mermaids, but other than that, the zone was empty.

A few months later, I tried to PL a rogue in Kedge and the exp modifier had been greatly reduced. I took him to Upper Guk, and not only was the exp better per kill, but the mobs also hit me much less and much softer than the mobs in Kedge. We then went to Lower Guk, and the exp per mob seemed to be about the same as Kedge. With the hard-hitting mobs and problems with casting in water, I wrote off Kedge as a place to PL people.

I later tried Kedge for regular exp around level 35 or 40 when a group of friends and I rolled alts. First, it was a pain getting everyone EB items. Secondly, splitting the first room was annoying because every fish agros, so it's a lot of zoning back and forth to pull the mobs to the ent, using either snare or calm. After we had the room split the Fierce Impaler spawned and kicked our asses, so someone had to log over to a main to take him out. When we got back-to-back spawns, we decided that we should just go to HHK, which was much better exp.

Kedge is a hard zone because of the difficulty pulling/splitting, casting in water, and also due to the strength of mobs for their level. These aspects made it so difficult for normal exp groups, but almost ideal for PLing. It was sad that it was always empty, because even with the best exp in the game, people didn't view the risk worth the reward. However, with the current[(?) I actually haven't checked it in over a year)] sub-par exp modifier, there is absolutely no reason to exp there anymore.

TL;DR: Kedge is dead.

When the Kedge zem got nerfed I figured somebody higher up saw a single person in the zone once and thought "too many"

[Darkfuneral]

severe ligma.

:(

[Darkfuneral]

wtf is ligma lol

[Horza]

wtf is ligma lol

It's just a dumb Millennial joke from Twitter.

[Darkfuneral]

Bastard

[loramin]

This is my favorite thread because it's pretty funny watching Loramin have the thing he's said for awhile get directly contradicted by one of the top two people on P99 and now scramble to try and make up some weird arguments and/or try and be like "well he could've meant something else!"

Let it go man, lol

I will happily let it go ... if they ever do actually contradict me. But Nilbog saying "sources?" is very much not Nilbog saying "yes I want classic ZEMs on all Project 1999 servers" ... much to my chagrin. :(

You have to understand: I WANT TO BE WRONG!

I truly do want Nilbog to tell me I'm an idiot who doesn't understand classic EQ, and that actually the ZEMs have been classic for years and I've just been too stupid to notice. Or that maybe the current ZEMs are the best he can do, and he's always wanted evidence to fix them, it just took five years for someone like Dolalain to submit it. Or maybe that ...

Really I don't care about the exact scenario, and I don't care about being publically "owned by Nilbog": I just want classic ZEMs.

[Horza]

I hear fat sausage fingers pounding the keyboard

Look at this nerd posting on the forums for a twenty year old emulated game.

[loramin]

I hear fat sausage fingers pounding the keyboard

I just got my weight under 190 lbs.:rolleyes:. Try harder.

I mean c'mon man, I'm low hanging fruit: there's like a million legitimate ways to insult me. Even if you leave out my insane fetish for the wiki, it would probably take all of five minutes to find something embarrassing and insult-worthy that I've said in a previous post (I post a lot).

And if you can't even do that ... at least be a little creative with your insults. Like if I were calling you fat, I'd say:

https://i.imgur.com/w7zV79U.jpg

[zodium]

I mean c'mon man, I'm low hanging fruit: there's like a million legitimate ways to insult me. Even if you leave out my insane fetish for the wiki, it would probably take all of five minutes to find something embarrassing and insult-worthy that I've said in a previous post (I post a lot).

it's true, there's really no need to make fun of loramin over this relatively minor and widespread rumor about nilbog deliberately keeping ZEMs this way as he routinely and hilariously posts things which are, on a fundamental and even banal level, so comically wrong that my strongest working theory at this moment is he in fact plays p99 from a different dimension than every other poster on our forums, like a parallel universe where everything's identical too our universe except coinflips have opposite outcomes or whatever, and though it strains all sense and credulity and brings a person to doubt the nature of knowledge itself as one contemplates the eldritch horror of the notion that, in that strange universe, very much unlike our universe, loramin is a renowned and respected sage on all matters classic everquest.

[Ripqozko]

it's true, there's really no need to make fun of loramin over this relatively minor and widespread rumor about nilbog deliberately keeping ZEMs this way as he routinely and hilariously posts things which are, on a fundamental and even banal level, so comically wrong that my strongest working theory at this moment is he in fact plays p99 from a different dimension than every other poster on our forums, like a parallel universe where everything's identical too our universe except coinflips have opposite outcomes or whatever, and though it strains all sense and credulity and brings a person to doubt the nature of knowledge itself as one contemplates the eldritch horror of the notion that, in that strange universe, very much unlike our universe, loramin is a renowned and respected sage on all matters classic everquest.

Let me check the wiki to see if you are correct.

[Horza]

it's true, there's really no need to make fun of loramin over this relatively minor and widespread rumor about nilbog deliberately keeping ZEMs this way as he routinely and hilariously posts things which are, on a fundamental and even banal level, so comically wrong that my strongest working theory at this moment is he in fact plays p99 from a different dimension than every other poster on our forums, like a parallel universe where everything's identical too our universe except coinflips have opposite outcomes or whatever, and though it strains all sense and credulity and brings a person to doubt the nature of knowledge itself as one contemplates the eldritch horror of the notion that, in that strange universe, very much unlike our universe, loramin is a renowned and respected sage on all matters classic everquest.

Is that the same alternate dimension where your character looks like Daniel Day Lewis?

[Dolalin]

Seeing as Nilbog has had infinite opportunities to tell me to fuck off with my random and time-wasting Classic EQ research, and has yet not told me to fuck off, I am going to assume he's at least slightly interested in going in a more classic direction.

If I'm wrong, of course, feel free to tell me to fuck off.

[loramin]

Seeing as Nilbog has had infinite opportunities to tell me to fuck off with my random and time-wasting Classic EQ research, and has yet not told me to fuck off, I am going to assume he's at least slightly interested in going in a more classic direction.

If I'm wrong, of course, feel free to tell me to fuck off.

No fucks needed! We're 100% on the same side, in agreement, or however you want to put it. All I was saying is, don't try to make me out to be some dev-doubting naysayer, when I was literally the only one in the forum wasting countless hours arguing that Green would someday exist :)

Things do change here, they do get better, and I love seeing it when it happens. I'm 100% hoping that good stuff comes out of your thread.

I was just saying that, simply because you got lucky and showed up at the right time for Nilbog to suddenly seem interested ... it doesn't change the fact that for the past 5+ years he hasn't shown any such interest. And in the absence of any communication whatsoever, the idea that Nilbog didn't want (100%) classic ZEMs has flourished.

This is the logical thing to conclude when the stated goal of the project "classic", and some obviously unclassic thing sits unchanged for five years. That's doubly so when no special classic research is required (as I understand it, all the classic ZEMs are in the default EQ Emu values, so if they aren't classic Nilbog had to deliberately change them to be unclassic). And then on top of that, whenever anyone mentioned it for five years, they were always told "Nilbog wants it that way".

So again, I didn't create the idea! I've just played here for five years and learned it from everyone else, the same way I learned (say) that the devs want OOT to be unclassic. It's not like Nilbog announces that to the forum every dayeither, but even so I assume the community wisdom on it is correct ... and again, he almost never says anything, ever, to clarify anything.

[cd288]

I will happily let it go ... if they ever do actually contradict me. But Nilbog saying "sources?" is very much not Nilbog saying "yes I want classic ZEMs on all Project 1999 servers" ... much to my chagrin. :(

You have to understand: I WANT TO BE WRONG!

I truly do want Nilbog to tell me I'm an idiot who doesn't understand classic EQ, and that actually the ZEMs have been classic for years and I've just been too stupid to notice. Or that maybe the current ZEMs are the best he can do, and he's always wanted evidence to fix them, it just took five years for someone like Dolalain to submit it. Or maybe that ...

Really I don't care about the exact scenario, and I don't care about being publically "owned by Nilbog": I just want classic ZEMs.

If you say "X person does this and/or wants this" and X person sees that and says "source?" that means they are deliberately contradicting your claim. If they weren't they wouldn't call you out. There's no way to spin it.

[Gatorsmash]

source?

Preface- I love the server and appreciate all the work you and the staff do buuuut... That's such a disingenuous question/response because while I know for a fact Runnyeye and Cazic dungeon zems are incorrect since I played them on live with the same class combo's its impossible to prove what the numbers really were which means your guessing as well.

[cd288]

Preface- I love the server and appreciate all the work you and the staff do buuuut... That's such a disingenuous question/response because while I know for a fact Runnyeye and Cazic dungeon zems are incorrect since I played them on live with the same class combo's its impossible to prove what the numbers really were which means your guessing as well.

I think you're missing the point of his response. He is contesting Loramin's statement that he essentially makes things unclassic on purpose to create some sort of mystery over ZEMs to try and simulate what it was on live and that some people on here want classic ZEMs but Nilbog refuses to provide them.

[loramin]

I think you're reading a lot into a one-word response.

It is beyond obvious that Nilbog was calling me out and questioning something I said. But it's not at all clear what specifically he was trying to say. He could have meant:


P99 has unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but where'd you get the idea that I want them (maybe Rogean does?)

P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but I changed my mind and now want them classic

P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, but it was never on purpose and I've fixed them long ago

P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I know this, but it's only because no one submitted any evidence for five years until Dolalain did

P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I want most of them to be classic, but not Kedge because fuck that zone

P99 ... I could go on, but you get the idea


If I had to guess, my best guess is that Nilbog didn't care about ZEMs for awhile, presumably because he had an entire 20-year old game to emulate and just cared more about other things. He also hates talking to us (can you blame him?)

As a result, the community got the mistaken impression that he didn't want classic ZEMs, when really he just didn't want to deal with ZEMs. But now with Green/Teal he's been reminded of them, and now he's going to take Dolalain's evidence and classic the fuck (please feel free to steal that phrase) out of our ZEMs ...

.. but again that's just a guess, and really we're all just guessing, because the dude made a one-word post in response to my wall of text :)

[cd288]

I think you're reading a lot into a one-word response.

It is beyond obvious that Nilbog was calling me out and questioning something I said. But it's not at all clear what specifically he was trying to say. He could have meant:


P99 has unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but where'd you get the idea that I want them (maybe Rogean does?)

P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but I changed my mind and now want them classic

P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, but it was never on purpose and I've fixed them long ago

P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I know this, but it's only because no one submitted any evidence for five years until Dolalain did

P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I want most of them to be classic, but not Kedge because fuck that zone

P99 ... I could go on, but you get the idea


If I had to guess, my best guess is that Nilbog didn't care about ZEMs for awhile, presumably because he had an entire 20-year old game to emulate and just cared more about other things. He also hates talking to us (can you blame him?)

As a result, the community got the mistaken impression that he didn't want classic ZEMs, when really he just didn't want to deal with ZEMs. But now with Green/Teal he's been reminded of them, and now he's going to take Dolalain's evidence and classic the fuck (please feel free to steal that phrase) out of our ZEMs ...

.. but again that's just a guess, and really we're all just guessing, because the dude made a one-word post in response to my wall of text :)

Whatever makes you feel better I suppose. You've been saying the same thing in your original comment for awhile now and arguing it over and over, and now Nilbog comes and basically contradicts you and you're scrambling to be like "no! I'm not wrong!" since it's kind of embarrassing to argue over and over that X person wants/does something and then have that person essentially be like "no I don't"

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Imagine the entitlement

[loramin]

and you're scrambling to be like "no! I'm not wrong!"

I answered this was way back on page 5 ... do try to keep up :)

You have to understand: I WANT TO BE WRONG!

[loramin]

On review (damn I wish RnF had edit), I think the "defensiveness" you're picking up on is between me and Dolalain (note that the post you quoted was in fact a reply to him). I was just "defending" the fact that we had no classic ZEM activity for five years, because he seems to be newer here and (sort of) called me out earlier.

But again, all the stuff about us not having classic ZEMs I want to be wrong about. As I've tried hard to stress, I very much don't want things to continue the way they are, and for Dolalain's research to be ignored.

Nothing would make me happier than Nilbog "giving me the middle finger " ... in the form of a patch that adds classic ZEMs :D

[Horza]

Loramin, please allow cd288 to continue translating the oracle's one word answers for us lowly commoners.

[Corbin]

I was just saying that, simply because you got lucky and showed up at the right time for Nilbog to suddenly seem interested



"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

The noise to fact ratio on this forum is very lopsided. If your business is getting stuff done, like developing a game in your spare time, this community's style of input could be exhausting and difficult to wade through.

Obviously, the new servers put the crunch into development time. However, Dolalin's contributions (from what little I've read) appear to be focused on providing usable information to the developers, not on subjective opinions or rehashing old p1999 CW.

As you respect the developers and the project I would take "Source?" at it's meaning. If you want to assume anything, I would suggest that recognizing your potential, Nilbog is asking you to find and cite something he can work with.

I started live during POP on a new server. Many of the zems seem similar to that era. Perhaps, it represented the oldest high quality source of zems they had access to at that time, pending further investigation.

Btw, I post with all due respect, or I wouldn't have bothered. I think you and Dolalin do god's work in a hall of sinners, each in your own way.;)

[Wonkie]

Loramin, please allow cd288 to continue translating the oracle's one word answers for us lowly commoners.

nilbog SLAMS goofy librarian with stunning rebuke - "Source?"

[Ripqozko]

source?

[chowdah555]

I think as some have said in other forum posts over the years it could be as simple as all of us not knowing the ZEMs existed. Ultimately I remember going wherever there were groups. So for me, I remember grouping a lot in Oasis, SK, and eventually when Kunark came out, moving to Overthere and DL. I don't think I really ever leveled a character in a dungeon until much later on (KC, etc in Kunark).

[TheDudeAbides]

feel free to tell me to fuck off.

Fuck Off

[cd288]

On review (damn I wish RnF had edit), I think the "defensiveness" you're picking up on is between me and Dolalain (note that the post you quoted was in fact a reply to him). I was just "defending" the fact that we had no classic ZEM activity for five years, because he seems to be newer here and (sort of) called me out earlier.

But again, all the stuff about us not having classic ZEMs I want to be wrong about. As I've tried hard to stress, I very much don't want things to continue the way they are, and for Dolalain's research to be ignored.

Nothing would make me happier than Nilbog "giving me the middle finger " ... in the form of a patch that adds classic ZEMs :D

I don't think he's debating whether the ZEMs are classic or not. I think he's debating this comment you've always made that he on purpose makes ZEMs non-classic in order to emulate some sense of "ZEM mystery" and create a more "classic atmosphere". And that he stands in the way of them being classic on purpose.

The ZEMs aren't all classic. But, contrary to what you've claimed multiple times in the past, that's not because Nilbog purposefully makes them so to try and create an atmosphere where people know less about them like they may have during the classic era. In large part it's because we don't have full information on what classic ZEMs were. His "source?" question is contesting your contrary claim on those points.

[loramin]

I don't think he's debating whether the ZEMs are classic or not. I think he's debating this comment you've always made that he on purpose makes ZEMs non-classic in order to emulate some sense of "ZEM mystery" and create a more "classic atmosphere". And that he stands in the way of them being classic on purpose.

The ZEMs aren't all classic. But, contrary to what you've claimed multiple times in the past, that's not because Nilbog purposefully makes them so to try and create an atmosphere where people know less about them like they may have during the classic era. In large part it's because we don't have full information on what classic ZEMs were. His "source?" question is contesting your contrary claim on those points.

Again, anyone can decide what his one-word comment meant, and there's no doubt he was saying I was full of shit about something. But as an English major I can assure you there are any number of ways one can parse the collection of words that was my quote, and the single word that was Nilbog's, to define the details of what specifically I was full of shit about.

As for the part about being wrong about Nilbog's motivations? Again, yes I'm likely wrong, and very happy to be. Like I said, Nilbog never talks. Rogean barely does either, but at least once every couple years or so he decides to make a brief appearance in the forums. But Nilbog, outside the bug forums? There's a reason I posted that "giddy girl gif" after he wrote one word ... it was one word more than he's said on the matter for over half a decade!

Again, for the 5+ years I've been here, ZEMS have remained unclassic ... even though the devs have always claimed that all they want is "classic", and even though supposedly the classic ZEMs are baked in to EQEmu. That's created cognitive dissonance, between the fact that "Nilbog wants classic" and the fact that "Nilbog left an obvious thing unclassic for half a decade". The two don't square.

Every other similar contradiction here (http://wiki.project1999.com/Non-Classic_Compendium) has an explanation. Maybe, in trying to square that circle I (or more likely, someone else that I go the idea from) came up with the explanation that Nilbog DOES want classic ... it's just with ZEMs he wants "classic mystery".

But if that was wrong, and me saying the wrong thing loudly a few times means that instead of having to keep tell ourselves the same cognitive dissonance-resolving lie for five more years, Nilbog actually makes that dissonance to go away ... how could I be upset about that?

[Smellybuttface]

Again, anyone can decide what his one-word comment meant, and there's no doubt he was saying I was full of shit about something. But as an English major I can assure you...

[NegaStoat]

On Brell Serilis during pre Velious within the Kunark expansion my guild took advantage of my having both a bard and a rock solid internet connection for Kedge grouping for maximum experience. All I had to do was crank the water breathing song in a room for hours while everyone else did the work. As a back up we all had 3+ Mage summoned water stones but out of all the play sessions I think they were only put to use like twice.

The experience was MUCH, MUCH better than grinding in the usual pick-up locations like Dreadlands or the Overthere. The other two key zones that were perma camped were Karnor's (for the loot) and the Hole (had an exp rate similar to kedge). I really don't have anything to contribute to the thread other than "Yes, this is not classic, and yes, it feels intentional."

[Horza]

nilbog SLAMS goofy librarian with stunning rebuke - "Source?"

nilbog eviscerates Loramin, to learn more just click here.

[cd288]

Again, anyone can decide what his one-word comment meant, and there's no doubt he was saying I was full of shit about something. But as an English major I can assure you there are any number of ways one can parse the collection of words that was my quote, and the single word that was Nilbog's, to define the details of what specifically I was full of shit about.

As for the part about being wrong about Nilbog's motivations? Again, yes I'm likely wrong, and very happy to be. Like I said, Nilbog never talks. Rogean barely does either, but at least once every couple years or so he decides to make a brief appearance in the forums. But Nilbog, outside the bug forums? There's a reason I posted that "giddy girl gif" after he wrote one word ... it was one word more than he's said on the matter for over half a decade!

Again, for the 5+ years I've been here, ZEMS have remained unclassic ... even though the devs have always claimed that all they want is "classic", and even though supposedly the classic ZEMs are baked in to EQEmu. That's created cognitive dissonance, between the fact that "Nilbog wants classic" and the fact that "Nilbog left an obvious thing unclassic for half a decade". The two don't square.

Every other similar contradiction here (http://wiki.project1999.com/Non-Classic_Compendium) has an explanation. Maybe, in trying to square that circle I (or more likely, someone else that I go the idea from) came up with the explanation that Nilbog DOES want classic ... it's just with ZEMs he wants "classic mystery".

But if that was wrong, and me saying the wrong thing loudly a few times means that instead of having to keep tell ourselves the same cognitive dissonance-resolving lie for five more years, Nilbog actually makes that dissonance to go away ... how could I be upset about that?

I mean, if you want to continue to write paragraphs upon paragraphs trying to find some sort of way to spin this because you're embarrassed that something you've maintained for so long was directly contradicted by the person you've maintained it about, go right ahead. I'd think it would be easier just to accept it and move on, but oh well.

[OuterChimp]

I'm disappointed in the quality of the R&F comments today. I rate you guys gimp out of 10. You are better than this...

[Naonak]

I'm disappointed in the quality of the R&F comments today. I rate you guys gimp out of 10. You are better than this...


;)

[loramin]

Well the funny thing about that is, Nilbog purposefully makes some ZEMs unclassic here: it's a fairly unique example of him prioritizing classic environment (ie. players not knowing exact ZEMs) over classic mechanics.

So ironically, while I don't know about the whole server, there's a decent number of us who want classic ZEMs ... and it's Nilbog, of all people, standing in the way of them.


source?

I just had to Necro this thread to point out that Nilbog ultimately revised P99 to have ... that's right ... unclassic ZEMs which preserve ZEM mystery ;)

https://i.imgur.com/ZJoMAPC.gif

[tyrant49333]

Shut up Loramin

[loramin]

Shut up Loramin

It was a shit post, to be sure. But after having everyone in this thread tell me how wrong I was for however many pages, I feel like I deserved a single victory gif shit post :)

[Sethius Marlowe]

Did anyone no that nilbog spelled backwards is goblin???? Check out the academy* award winning movie Trolls 2

*the asterisk means patent pending.

[Bardp1999]

Loramin confirmed to hate staff...burn the witch

[Tilien]

I just had to Necro this thread to point out that Nilbog ultimately revised P99 to have ... that's right ... unclassic ZEMs which preserve ZEM mystery ;)

https://i.imgur.com/ZJoMAPC.gif

I mean the way Rogean posted it seems they implemented unclassic ZEMs for balance not for "classic feels".

But balance something-something soulfire something-something redwood wands.

[Hotel]

Since this has been a really constructive thread, I thought I would offer just one comment.

Unroot the dragons.

[Pretzelle]

Since this has been a really constructive thread, I thought I would offer just one comment.

Unroot the dragons.

nah.

[Hideousclaw]

Since this has been a really constructive thread, I thought I would offer just one comment.

Unroot the dragons.

12654

[shadowdinah]

Is this where I post, Unroot the dragons please?

[Dugface]

Is this where I post, Unroot the dragons please?

Killing dragons at ToV zone in? Nah.

[shadowdinah]

Killing dragons at ToV zone in? Nah.

dang it 8(

[Izmael]

I've been on a Vyemm kill at the ToV zone in on P99.

My inner EQ purist wanted to yell IRL "NOOOOO THIS IS AN ABOMINATIOOOOOONNN". It felt so wrong.

[Trzzle]

This thread needs more Loramin walls of text without any source.

[Bardp1999]

OP banned lul

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by nilbog
I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy.


Nothing about p99 is classic

bored today much? what an ingrate...Nilbog is a hero here.

[Kohedron]

Leave it nosepickers playing a 60 year old free video game to complain about what they get for free from people working their ass off to provide something for free

[Sethius Marlowe]

Racists!

[Ennewi]

It's funny that you call p99 classic but there are so many non-classic changes.

P99 - selectively classic ™️

If the original EverQuest servers had progressed on the same schedule as Blue, and its players had all of this time to figure out the easy workarounds, do you really think the original devs wouldn't have made the same amount of changes, if not more?

[Ripqozko]

loramin bout to quote the wiki 100 times , watch out.

[Hotel]

Killing dragons at ToV zone in? Nah.

- account made 2019
- posted about 'dominating' tov cycles in Riot app thread
- complains about pulling mobs to tov zone in when it happens in every other zone

I like where this conversation is headed.

[Izmael]

- account made 2019
- posted about 'dominating' tov cycles in Riot app thread
- complains about pulling mobs to tov zone in when it happens in every other zone

I like where this conversation is headed.

Yeah ToV and North Karana, what's the difference

[Mblake81]

- account made 2019
- posted about 'dominating' tov cycles in Riot app thread
- complains about pulling mobs to tov zone in when it happens in every other zone

I like where this conversation is headed.

admit you just want to park your character, log on for 10 minutes and occasionally collect the best loot. possibly upset that you missed out on the gravy train.

The most excitement being when a pop is in another zone and you need to run a character there before the rival guild gets it, which is a total farce seeing as how people have characters in every guild and members of all the discords.. so there is no secrecy. In fact, suggesting such is often met with "lol, its a 20 year old game who cares" while acting like it does.

You don't want any real thrills.

[Ripqozko]

admit you just want to park your character, log on for 10 minutes and occasionally collect the best loot. possibly upset that you missed out on the gravy train.

The most excitement being when a pop is in another zone and you need to run a character there before the rival guild gets it, which is a total farce seeing as how people have characters in every guild and members of all the discords.. so there is no secrecy. In fact, suggesting such is often met with "lol, its a 20 year old game who cares" while acting like it does.

You don't want any real thrills.

having 0 competition for 90% of the mobs is the definition of gravy train.

[Mblake81]

having 0 competition for 90% of the mobs is the definition of gravy train.

How do you figure it would be zero

[Ripqozko]

How do you figure it would be zero

riot doesnt have competition, its free loot. i dont blame them for that id enjoy the free loot as well. its just longer wait for the loot pinata but its still free loot.

[Mblake81]

riot doesnt have competition, its free loot. i dont blame them for that id enjoy the free loot as well. its just longer wait for the loot pinata but its still free loot.

What happens when no one else can step up. I think you guys tried recently but failed and tore the guild apart. Don't worry its not the first, I was part of two guilds that tore up because some other guys sat on top, and others tore apart from the bleeding members.

[Ripqozko]

What happens when no one else can step up. I think you guys tried recently but failed and tore the guild apart. Don't worry its not the first, I was part of two guilds that tore up because some other guys sat on top, and others tore apart from the bleeding members.

if they wanted competition they would have taken the offer for lockouts in UN. thats one way casuals can compete. otherwise they will give a free mob here and there and be the "good guys". its all wack non sense. should be proud that they get free farm thats point of winning against folks. dont act like there is any competition tho lol.

[Mblake81]

if they wanted competition they would have taken the offer for lockouts in UN. thats one way casuals can compete. otherwise they will give a free mob here and there and be the "good guys". its all wack non sense. should be proud that they get free farm thats point of winning against folks. dont act like there is any competition tho lol.

A bleeding heart.

[Ripqozko]

A bleeding heart.

a casual warmbody

[Mblake81]

a casual warmbody

yep

[Hotel]

admit you just want to park your character, log on for 10 minutes and occasionally collect the best loot. possibly upset that you missed out on the gravy train.

The most excitement being when a pop is in another zone and you need to run a character there before the rival guild gets it, which is a total farce seeing as how people have characters in every guild and members of all the discords.. so there is no secrecy. In fact, suggesting such is often met with "lol, its a 20 year old game who cares" while acting like it does.

You don't want any real thrills.

Being a part of a pull team in tov was the most fun experience I've ever had playing an mmo.

Although, I really want some vulak loot so I can punch frogs for more damage in seb.

[Pretzelle]

Aftermath is still mad/bad/sad they had to clear drakes to get dragons?

[Ripqozko]

Aftermath is still mad/bad/sad they had to clear drakes to get dragons?

Sorry you think Aftermath exists.

[Pretzelle]

Sorry you think Aftermath exists.

Call guild652 whatever you want to call it - it's still the same sour people trying to stick their dick into every situation they can to make life worse for everyone around them - y'know, Aftermath.

[Ripqozko]

Call guild652 whatever you want to call it - it's still the same sour people trying to stick their dick into every situation they can to make life worse for everyone around them - y'know, Aftermath.

rent free in your head, sorry you are so bothered.

[Pretzelle]

rent free in your head, sorry you are so bothered.

:o whatever makes you feel special

[Ripqozko]

:o whatever makes you feel special

its fine, if you are still hurt, im here to tell you im sorry for hurting you.
its 2020, lets drop the hate.

[Mblake81]

Being a part of a pull team in tov was the most fun experience I've ever had playing an mmo.

Although, I really want some vulak loot so I can punch frogs for more damage in seb.

Pull team is the common response. It was that or parking the character and logging on for 10. The pull team guys were the most vocal after the change.

[Mblake81]

rent free in your head, sorry you are so bothered.

Its not living in anothers head when they are not the ones bringing it up, Hotel did. It was brought up again, living in anothers head would be Pretzelle making a post about when out of the blue because they are so bothered.

So, you guys are living in your own heads.. still the pull stars of TOV shining bright for all to see for the 5 guys on the twitch stream.

[Mblake81]

err, triple post so egg on my face.

Unfairly named Hotel in that, he was just the person I responded to. It was someother guys that brought it up, focused on him because he has a history about it. I don't know the other people.

So yeah, free punch to my head on that.

[Clearmind]

Call guild652 whatever you want to call it - it's still the same sour people trying to stick their dick into every situation they can to make life worse for everyone around them - y'know, Aftermath.

sorry your bad and still salty because you sucked..

[Sethius Marlowe]

Just wanted to say hi. Hope everyone’s having a good day.

[Jimjam]

having 0 competition for 90% of the mobs is the definition of gravy train.

Its pve; you team up with other adventurers to compete against the monsters. It’s a multiplayer rpg, not madden.

[Nirgon]

too old and tired now to fight about this crap anymore

[Fammaden]

Its pve; you team up with other adventurers to compete against the monsters. It’s a multiplayer rpg, not madden.

Yeah sure, maybe if you're bluebie casual warmbody SCUM!!!!. True P99 stuperstar playmakers know that the only fun part of EQ is taking the pixels right out of the hands of your enemies then drinking deeply of their sweet lamentations on the RnF board the next day.

Sadly the uNclAsSiC rooted dwagons destroyed all that was meaningful in the world, and this green server/WoWC/BBQ/summertime shit has rendered RnF trolling a pale shadow of its former glory as well. Dark times in Norrath, surely Brad rolls over in his grave.

[Ripqozko]

Yeah sure, maybe if you're bluebie casual warmbody SCUM!!!!. True P99 stuperstar playmakers know that the only fun part of EQ is taking the pixels right out of the hands of your enemies then drinking deeply of their sweet lamentations on the RnF board the next day.

Sadly the uNclAsSiC rooted dwagons destroyed all that was meaningful in the world, and this green server/WoWC/BBQ/summertime shit has rendered RnF trolling a pale shadow of its former glory as well. Dark times in Norrath, surely Brad rolls over in his grave.

Sorry you don’t have warder loot.

[Mblake81]

Pull Team Superstar featuring Brads ranger.

"We sat invis and watched him zone pull a Dwagon, two fiery swords up!" -Greentext

"I didn't like it, where was the excitement? So he zone pulls a dwagon, how is that any different than pulling a lion to Karana bridge?" -Hotel

[Hotel]

Pull Team Superstar featuring Brads ranger.

"We sat invis and watched him zone pull a Dwagon, two fiery swords up!" -Greentext

"I didn't like it, where was the excitement? So he zone pulls a dwagon, how is that any different than pulling a lion to Karana bridge?" -Hotel

yikes

[Evets]

Nilbog gets virtually nothing out of the thousands and thousands of hours he's devoted to letting all of us have near-classic emulated fun.

Source?

[Asteria]

Have you been to the Horza hotel yet, Hotel :p

[Kesselring]

Call guild652 whatever you want to call it - it's still the same sour people trying to stick their dick into every situation they can to make life worse for everyone around them - y'know, Aftermath.


Were u mad when a small group of people could pull dragons away from people with no skill. It wasnt even skill actually it was just people smart enough to rebind their keys so they werent a keyboard turning doofus and holding them down in a direction while hitting maybe a button every 5 seconds. Took like 10 APM to be a good player in those days yet people still complained all day and night. And before people talk about time investment, thats the whole point of an MMO. Time investment is what made your character well geared. Thats why people liked MMOs to begin with. They weren't any good at games that required skill and reaction speed like FPS gamer jocks. They saw "omg i can get good just by logging in!" and servers buckled at the seams of the fat nerdy greasiness that flooded in.

[Zoggren]

Were u mad when a small group of people could pull dragons away from people with no skill. It wasnt even skill actually it was just people smart enough to rebind their keys so they werent a keyboard turning doofus and holding them down in a direction while hitting maybe a button every 5 seconds. Took like 10 APM to be a good player in those days yet people still complained all day and night. And before people talk about time investment, thats the whole point of an MMO. Time investment is what made your character well geared. Thats why people liked MMOs to begin with. They weren't any good at games that required skill and reaction speed like FPS gamer jocks. They saw "omg i can get good just by logging in!" and servers buckled at the seams of the fat nerdy greasiness that flooded in.

This response actually reinforces the criticism. Now I personally know that most ex Aftermath aren't assholes, but you sound like one that could fit the bill.

[Kesselring]

This response actually reinforces the criticism. Now I personally know that most ex Aftermath aren't assholes, but you sound like one that could fit the bill.

Im glad internet sarcasm infuriates you.

[Izmael]

Source?

Source is maybe you don't realize the amount of work and dedication that has gone, is going, and will go into P99. To start getting an idea, you may want to download EQEMU and see how far you get with making one playable classic ZONE (Arena excluded ;) )

Unless P99 a solid cash-cow bringing in 6+ digits yearly, which it most certainly isn't, they are basically working for free.

[Hyjalx]

The ship sailed on P99 being an Everquest classic emulator long ago...

[Hyjalx]

Unrooted dragons and "lists" make this emulator no different than other custom EQ emu's imo. Unfortunately, nobody cares about the "classic" experience anymore.

[Hyjalx]

Claiming this is "classic" is no different than my local burger king or Mcdonalds advertising fresh, hot, and juicy burgers.

I still go and order them, cause they taste good, but deep down, I know its still bad

[Fammaden]

Post a few more times, is WoW classic down right now or something?

[Ennewi]

Except the original devs never intended for newbies to have epics, and said as much, hence the restriction. The other changes exist for similar reasons. You'reng that the game shouldn't be altered or updated by the current devs to adapt to the player base, when that's exactly what the original devs did with every other patch.

[Ennewi]

*You're arguing that

[Asteria]

Racists!

OMG, solved!

Only banned because "DARKfuneral". Good thing you didn't go with dark Seth or Marlowe Midnite.