Sorry, but Toxxulia Forrest was not this foggy in 1999

[Ghost_of_Fippy]

Just as the Title says. I started in March 1999 as a Eurdite. Leveled there for weeks. There was not this much fog back then. When you approached the bridge, you could see the whole thing and across it to the other side. The setting for Green and Teal is ridiculous. Is there a way to scale it back?

Rungupp use to also charge the bridge and send out a zone wide message to the city of Erudin he was coming, sort of like Fippy Darkpaw, but on a longer timer. Now he just wonders up and down the edge of the water on the SW edge, silent.

[Smellybuttface]

I’ve wondered this too. Feerott and Nektoulis (sp?) both seem to have their clip plane set at the lowest possible level, despite my own being set at max. When it rains I can see maybe an arms length in front of me. I’ll say this is definitely one of those quality of life upgrades I miss from playing on the EQ live servers.

[PabloEdvardo]

As far as I know, the clip planes are not classic due to how they implemented the vision restrictions.

[Swish]

While vision might not be perfect, can we say it's moved towards what classic was rather than pitching blue server vision as the closer marker?

[Dolalin]

This site has a lot of classic shots of Nek Forest. I don't think it's too far off on Green presently?

https://uenaelar.forumauberge.com/htm/us/chap001.htm

Also not a bad read either.

[DMN]

I dunno. i remember it being pretty god damn dark on my erudite enchanter way back in 99'. Also that troll didn't charge the town as far as i recall. he did a zone wide shout either when he spawned or died. i forget which.

[Frug]

I’ve wondered this too. Feerott and Nektoulis (sp?) both seem to have their clip plane set at the lowest possible level, despite my own being set at max. When it rains I can see maybe an arms length in front of me. I’ll say this is definitely one of those quality of life upgrades I miss from playing on the EQ live servers.

It's "bad classic implementation because we couldn't do anything better" to the point of absurdity.

[Ghost_of_Fippy]

I dunno. i remember it being pretty god damn dark on my erudite enchanter way back in 99'. Also that troll didn't charge the town as far as i recall. he did a zone wide shout either when he spawned or died. i forget which.

Yes, without a light source, my Eurdite was blind as a bat. I kept spare Fire Beetle eyes in the bank for corpse runs, but was only needed if at night. This is different, I am talking about fog. It is too thick. Nothing like Classic in 1999. Also the clip plane is to short. As I said, you could see the whole bridge in the zone and across it in 1999. You could also stand on top of the spans and get some good screen shots of the zone during the day.

Rungupp did charge the bridge, once he spawned and started moving that way, he sent out a zone wide message. You knew when you saw the zone wide message to head to the bridge if you wanted to catch him for a fight.

[jimm0thy]

Was thinking the same thing while playing in Nek today as well, the clip plane is too low

[BogusMeatFactory]

Played as an Erudite during launch of Everquest. Yeah... it was that bad.

[Smellybuttface]

Played as an Erudite during launch of Everquest. Yeah... it was that bad.

Played a Dark Elf and Ogre at launch, and can say unequivocally (at least for those starting zones) they definitely were not this bad. I think OP is on to something here.

[Broor]

This site has a lot of classic shots of Nek Forest. I don't think it's too far off on Green presently?

https://uenaelar.forumauberge.com/htm/us/chap001.htm

Also not a bad read either.

So glad you linked this, some of the most classic shit I've read in years! Kill Stealing, high levels swooping named camps, intentional training in the name of role playing... seems like the wild west. English is obviously his second language but I wish we had more players documenting their adventures like Uenaelar-

[Cen]

Vision is harsher here because it was done using shaders. Best they can do

[Frug]

This site has a lot of classic shots of Nek Forest. I don't think it's too far off on Green presently?

https://uenaelar.forumauberge.com/htm/us/chap001.htm

Also not a bad read either.

VERY far off green. Take the shot of Feerrott: https://uenaelar.forumauberge.com/htm/us/chap020.htm

In current green/teal, you can barely see the top of the ramps from the bottom of them on those temples, much less from 10's of yards away. It's absurd.

[Dolalin]

VERY far off green. Take the shot of Feerrott: https://uenaelar.forumauberge.com/htm/us/chap020.htm

In current green/teal, you can barely see the top of the ramps from the bottom of them on those temples, much less from 10's of yards away. It's absurd.

Try posting this in the classic darkness thread, you might find you're listened to.

[DMN]

VERY far off green. Take the shot of Feerrott: https://uenaelar.forumauberge.com/htm/us/chap020.htm

In current green/teal, you can barely see the top of the ramps from the bottom of them on those temples, much less from 10's of yards away. It's absurd.

Why do you take a screenshot on greal with ultravision and daytime to compare.

[jimm0thy]

So I have an older copy of the EQClassic server code and logged into that for a quick comparison. Both screenshots were taken standing on the log outside of Neriak looking towards the city entrance, at roughly 5pm Game Time, with Clip Plane set to Max. The only difference is it's raining in the P99 screenshot (because it's constantly raining in Nek Forest for some reason) but from what I've seen the rain doesn't change anything since the clip plane is so low to begin with

Classic Trilogy Client
https://i.imgur.com/6GPvIQi.png

P99 Titanium Client
https://i.imgur.com/4fRvsM2.png

[Telin]

So I have an older copy of the EQClassic server code and logged into that for a quick comparison. Both screenshots were taken standing on the log outside of Neriak looking towards the city entrance, at roughly 5pm Game Time, with Clip Plane set to Max. The only difference is it's raining in the P99 screenshot (because it's constantly raining in Nek Forest for some reason) but from what I've seen the rain doesn't change anything since the clip plane is so low to begin with

Classic Trilogy Client
https://i.imgur.com/6GPvIQi.png

P99 Titanium Client
https://i.imgur.com/4fRvsM2.png

Current settings are based on a combination of default eqmac values and classic era screenshots. If you find a classic era screenshot with a clear reference point, I’d be happy to adjust.

Screenshots from a current trilogy client won’t be accurate as the max clips are controlled server side.

[jimm0thy]

Current settings are based on a combination of default eqmac values and classic era screenshots. If you find a classic era screenshot with a clear reference point, I’d be happy to adjust.

Screenshots from a current trilogy client won’t be accurate as the max clips are controlled server side.

Interesting, wasn't aware the clip plane was configurable like that. I'll see if I can find any classic era screenshots because nektulos at least is way to dark and the clip plane is far to low

[jimm0thy]

Ok so here's what I found quickly using the wayback machine
Also if you want, this is from the March 15,1999 Screenshot archive https://web.archive.org/web/20010201074100/http://everquest.station.sony.com/screenshot_archive.shtml

Official EverQuest site screenshot, Nektulos Bridge
https://web.archive.org/web/20031120131311im_/http://everquest.station.sony.com/screenshots/031599/EQ000050.jpg

P99 Nektulos Bridge
https://i.imgur.com/EVjnLDA.png

[douglas1999]

The clip plane in general definitely behaved differently in the classic client. I distinctly remember that you couldn't see the geometry drawing in as you move forward in zones with constant fog (everfrost, feerrott, innothule etc..). You could change the clip plane, but the outer boundary of the fog would always preclude the drawing of the distant geometry, which gave a great sense of atmosphere while still allowing you to change how far you can see in these zones (mainly for performance reasons in those days I'd assume).

And man I miss that old classic sky why the hell did they think it was a good idea to hard code a much shittier looking sky into the titanium client.

[nyclin]

Compare this to jimm0thy's screenshot

https://web.archive.org/web/20031120131310/http://everquest.station.sony.com/screenshots/031599/031599_7.html

[Nirgon]

Funny he posts about the yellow fog and most of you are going off about their less than pitch black night time in most areas

[Ghost_of_Fippy]

Funny he posts about the yellow fog and most of you are going off about their less than pitch black night time in most areas

But if the shorter clip plane is what is causing the bridge in Tox Forrest to not be fully visually displayed on screen during day hours, then the fog may not be what the problem is. I may be wrong, if the fog is just where the clip plane setting ends.

[jimm0thy]

But if the shorter clip plane is what is causing the bridge in Tox Forrest to not be fully visually displayed on screen during day hours, then the fog may not be what the problem is. I may be wrong, if the fog is just where the clip plane setting ends.

I would think that the fog you are talking about is just the end of the clip plane yes, obviously people would have been playing with different settings back in the day depending on their hardware. When I started playing in March of 2000, I had a Voodoo Banshee and my clip plane wasn't maxed out and I could still see further in Nektulous then now. But I will say that what they have now is better and feels more correct then before.

[Clappy]

For what it's worth, this is what Kelethin looks like from another server using the Titanium client. This, to me, is more what I recall the clip plane looking like when I used to play.

https://imgur.com/a/20Kp8RY

[jimm0thy]

For what it's worth, this is what Kelethin looks like from another server using the Titanium client. This, to me, is more what I recall the clip plane looking like when I used to play.

https://imgur.com/a/20Kp8RY

Kelethin had a much smaller clip plane originally, on the ground you couldn't see the other side of the city like that

[Pyrocat]

This site has a lot of classic shots of Nek Forest. I don't think it's too far off on Green presently?

https://uenaelar.forumauberge.com/htm/us/chap001.htm

Also not a bad read either.

Wow those graphics look amazing. Look at the lighting details in neriak, that's sexy as hell.

[Smellybuttface]

Kelethin had a much smaller clip plane originally, on the ground you couldn't see the other side of the city like that

I disagree. Of all the zones from back in the day, I spent MANY hours in Gray. I could see a decent bit further than I can now. It’s possible 20 years has heavily distorted what I thought i perceived, but it’s not a small minority of people that see the current clip plane as unusually low.

[jimm0thy]

I disagree. Of all the zones from back in the day, I spent MANY hours in Gray. I could see a decent bit further than I can now. It’s possible 20 years has heavily distorted what I thought i perceived, but it’s not a small minority of people that see the current clip plane as unusually low.

I'm sure that the clip plane is too low over in gfay as well, haven't been there though. But you surely couldn't see the other side of the city back in the day, from what I remember you could see about halfway across when standing at POD lift.

[Telin]

Try to get ones with classic era UI's or resolution. The clip planes were definitely raised at some point.

https://i.imgur.com/PlIu4Rg.png
https://i.imgur.com/llEoNJi.png

[DMN]

Only thing I remember about ye olde vanilla clipping plane was that when i teleported to the ring in misty thicket with my druid I could just barely see the nearest zone edge and always used that as a sort of marker to get my bearings and to RV as quick as possible

[Dolalin]

Keep in mind that it's possible people were keeping their clip planes down to increase fps. I know for sure that I was, I had a P200 with a Voodoo2 and kept it as low as possible because EQ wasn't playable otherwise.

You could pull your clip range in even further than the max clip for these zones I believe.

[DMN]

Keep in mind that it's possible people were keeping their clip planes down to increase fps. I know for sure that I was, I had a P200 with a Voodoo2 and kept it as low as possible because EQ wasn't playable otherwise.

I don't think you could change the clipping plane until like kunark.

[Dolalin]

I don't think you could change the clipping plane until like kunark.

October 28, 1999.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_Notes#General_Enhancements_3

[demokatt]

This site has a lot of classic shots of Nek Forest. I don't think it's too far off on Green presently?

https://uenaelar.forumauberge.com/htm/us/chap001.htm

Also not a bad read either.

I agree hilarious to read his adventures:-)

[Ghost_of_Fippy]

I think they should tweak the clip plane out just a wee bit further in these zones if they want to claim as close to Classic experience as possible.

If I knew what I know now, I would have saved all my EQ screenshots going back to March 1999 to upload for comparison. Who knew this game would be so endearing to us. As I upgraded computers through EQs history the past 20 years, I never moved all those EQ screenshots off the hard drives. They are all lost. Along with my CD boxes, original fabric map, and that useless player guide. /breaks_down_in_tears....

[Sithrak]

These aren't specifically related to Toxxulia, but they show just how far away you could see in the older client.

March 7th, 2000, at the docks in East Freeport. Look at how far away you used to be able to see the boat and other terrain. You have to walk onto the boat dock to be able to see this far right now.
https://www.wingedmammal.com/action_photos_2000/action_photo_000307.shtml

Here's a screenshot from March 9th, 2000, showing how far you used to be able to see in North Karana. You can see the terrain past the tower and the river into what would be South Karana.
http://www.wingedmammal.com/action_photos_2000/action_photo_000309.shtml

The next few are from a Reddit post I found where someone uploaded all their old screenshots from the Xegony server. Almost 700 images to look through.
https://old.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/6c5pyo/old_xegony_screenshots/

Another one from East Freeport. Look how clear it is all the way past the entrance.
https://imgur.com/a/FHPwN#rFYuHaw

Lavastorm - http://imgur.com/a/FHPwN#9dlzE9Z

Greater Faydark - http://imgur.com/a/FHPwN#gm3z1fb

And this Reddit thread which has a link to an Imgur album from 1999 up to Velious. 436 more pics to look through.
https://old.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/7gsy02/collecting_old_screenshots/
http://imgur.com/a/k2OvZ

[jimm0thy]

These aren't specifically related to Toxxulia, but they show just how far away you could see in the older client.

March 7th, 2000, at the docks in East Freeport. Look at how far away you used to be able to see the boat and other terrain. You have to walk onto the boat dock to be able to see this far right now.
https://www.wingedmammal.com/action_photos_2000/action_photo_000307.shtml

Here's a screenshot from March 9th, 2000, showing how far you used to be able to see in North Karana. You can see the terrain past the tower and the river into what would be South Karana.
http://www.wingedmammal.com/action_photos_2000/action_photo_000309.shtml

The next few are from a Reddit post I found where someone uploaded all their old screenshots from the Xegony server. Almost 700 images to look through.
https://old.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/6c5pyo/old_xegony_screenshots/

Another one from East Freeport. Look how clear it is all the way past the entrance.
https://imgur.com/a/FHPwN#rFYuHaw

Lavastorm - http://imgur.com/a/FHPwN#9dlzE9Z

Greater Faydark - http://imgur.com/a/FHPwN#gm3z1fb

And this Reddit thread which has a link to an Imgur album from 1999 up to Velious. 436 more pics to look through.
https://old.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/7gsy02/collecting_old_screenshots/
http://imgur.com/a/k2OvZ

Very nice, and a lot to look through

[Visual]

Not seeing past arms length is lame AF

[nyclin]

Try to get ones with classic era UI's or resolution. The clip planes were definitely raised at some point.

I'd argue that screenshots taken at 800x600 or 1024x768 were likely from low-end computers with the clip plane turned down to improve performance. Screenshots 1152x864 or higher would be more reliably indicative of the maximum clip plane at the time.

[Sithrak]

Until the Scars of Velious expansion it wasn't possible to have a resolution greater than 1024*768.

From an explanation of the .ini settings - https://iratus-lepus.com/forums/forum/nl-forums/general-tactics-for-the-beginning-bunny/87006-eqclient-ini-settings-and-information

VideoMode=[0-4]
0 is 640/480 resolution, 1 is 800/600. 2 is 1024/768. 3 is 1280/1024. 4 is 1600/1200. Players need to have the Velious expansion in order to set this line to 3 or 4.