Manastone /List yet another idea

[Polixa]

If the Eye or PH is stalled by people not killing, whether due to inability or stupidity, the top 6 on the List are ALL removed.

Force people to work together if they can't figure this out for themselves.

[Tilien]

"bring a group or solo it, /list is not a PUG" - People number 2 through 6 who aren't helping clear camp.

[Erati]

too easy to exploit automatic list removal due to not engaging or not being on encounter log

the only thing that needs to happen are actual player agreements that the GMs will enforce.

[TripSin]

too easy to exploit automatic list removal due to not engaging or not being on encounter log

the only thing that needs to happen are actual player agreements that the GMs will enforce.

No it wouldn't be. At least 6 players would be incentivized to make sure the mob is getting killed. You would have to have someone trying to keep it alive. If someone does that they just get reported and banned.

[Erati]

No it wouldn't be. At least 6 players would be incentivized to make sure the mob is getting killed. You would have to have someone trying to keep it alive. If someone does that they just get reported and banned.

All it takes is #2 and beyond to form an opposition to #1 to the point the camp is a standoff and then any mechanic coded to kick people off the list due to engage time limits is suddenly giving all the power to anyone not in the #1 slot.

[TripSin]

All it takes is #2 and beyond to form an opposition to #1 to the point the camp is a standoff and then any mechanic coded to kick people off the list due to engage time limits is suddenly giving all the power to anyone not in the #1 slot.

What are you on? #1 just kills the mob, end of story. If others try to keep it alive by like healing it or taking it off somewhere and not killing it report them and ban them ez.

[Erati]

What are you on? #1 just kills the mob, end of story. If others try to keep it alive by like healing it or taking it off somewhere and not killing it report them and ban them ez.

Seems like you havnt been to many of these camps.

#1 is rarely capable of solo ing the mob.

[TripSin]

Seems like you havnt been to many of these camps.

#1 is rarely capable of solo ing the mob.

True, I have a life and am not obsessed with an emulator of a 20-year-old game so haven't actually done these camps. I don't know how these camps work so I'll stay out of the discussions. My bad.

[Tilien]

I think the point of this is that if #2 doesn't help then he will be relisting and might end up #4. Meaning that 2 and 3 are highly motivated to help if there are 6 people on the list who are all independent from each other.

[Erati]

#1 on List is a Random but Nice person unable to solo the mob
#2-4 is all from the same guild and have orders to not help non guildies at list camps so more people join their guild

If you implement a system that allows a guild to monopolize list by ordering “no help” to anyone not tagged which in turn resets the list, you just made it easier to monopolize list camps w a zerg guild.

[Tilien]

#1 on List is a Random but Nice person unable to solo the mob
#2-4 is all from the same guild and have orders to not help non guildies at list camps so more people join their guild

If you implement a system that allows a guild to monopolize list by ordering “no help” to anyone not tagged which in turn resets the list, you just made it easier to monopolize list camps w a zerg guild.

I would agree this is possible but it would require a constant stream of non ask guildies to actually monopolize, and person 1 and 5 could still work together to kill it.

Assuming the guild will try to blockade the camp anyway would you rather have a system where the guild requires larger coordination (because if more nonguildies show up there could become a block of unguilded at the front) and forces the guild to actually clear the camp?

Or have one where the guild can blockade indefinitely or never clear camp?

Imagine a guild has positions 1-4 and refuse to assist the kill because 5 is unguilded. Once the unguilded is gone killing resumes.

Lots of ways to abuse both systems, I think one is marginally better than the other.

[Erati]

I would agree this is possible but it would require a constant stream of non ask guildies to actually monopolize, and person 1 and 5 could still work together to kill it.

Assuming the guild will try to blockade the camp anyway would you rather have a system where the guild requires larger coordination (because if more nonguildies show up there could become a block of unguilded at the front) and forces the guild to actually clear the camp?

Or have one where the guild can blockade indefinitely or never clear camp?

Imagine a guild has positions 1-4 and refuse to assist the kill because 5 is unguilded. Once the unguilded is gone killing resumes.

Lots of ways to abuse both systems, I think one is marginally better than the other.


I am merely giving examples of where a system that removes people from the list due to not engaging PH can be abused and exploited for gain.

Right now does it suck when people dont help clear the mobs and the #One cant solo it - yes - but that usually comes down to whether people are assholes or not and eventually itll get worked out with petition or simple conversation.

If you tempt people by hardcoding a way that boots people off lists outside of AFK checks, people WILL abuse it to get people they dont like booted.

[Cen]

Your idea is too exploitable. Mine is better still :p

My idea - List works as normal, except the top 6 people in the list can be rewarded the item randomly.

Everyone else is waiting in line to be the top 6 to have a chance at it.

Incentive to keep the kills moving, but can't be exploited to throw people off the list.

[Darkslide632]

My idea is better.

People just need to stop being assholes.

[aismartin]

Do level 35's slow down rate of drop? Saw two 50's get stone back to back. Every time I /list with a 35 at spot one drops seem none existent.

[Bristlebaner]

#1 on List is a Random but Nice person unable to solo the mob
#2-4 is all from the same guild and have orders to not help non guildies at list camps so more people join their guild

If you implement a system that allows a guild to monopolize list by ordering “no help” to anyone not tagged which in turn resets the list, you just made it easier to monopolize list camps w a zerg guild.

This sounds perfect for the neckbeards we have in these parts...let's do it!

[Erati]

Do level 35's slow down rate of drop? Saw two 50's get stone back to back. Every time I /list with a 35 at spot one drops seem none existent.

same as anti-camp radius in classic

filed under its classic

[Polixa]

Not sure who would exploit the idea I posted originally. If a guild held positions 2 through 7 would they seriously have 2 through 6 agree to be booted off the list to bump #7 to the top? Thus foregoing the chances of several manastones?

Nevertheless, I like Cen's suggestion

List works as normal, except the top 6 people in the list can be rewarded the item randomly.

Everyone else is waiting in line to be the top 6 to have a chance at it.

[Phaezed-Reality]

how can i instead of leveling up and just making this easy for everyone, put the onus on everyone else to get me my manastone.

can anyone help?

[Tilien]

Not sure who would exploit the idea I posted originally. If a guild held positions 2 through 7 would they seriously have 2 through 6 agree to be booted off the list to bump #7 to the top? Thus foregoing the chances of several manastones?

Nevertheless, I like Cen's suggestion

List works as normal, except the top 6 people in the list can be rewarded the item randomly.

Everyone else is waiting in line to be the top 6 to have a chance at it.

The abuse is that if there are 5 people on list, 2-5 are guilded. All guilded members refuse to help. All 5 listers are booted and /list again. unguilded now ended up randomly deep in the list with guilded having the 1 spot.

[Dreenk317]

Not sure who would exploit the idea I posted originally. If a guild held positions 2 through 7 would they seriously have 2 through 6 agree to be booted off the list to bump #7 to the top? Thus foregoing the chances of several manastones?

Nevertheless, I like Cen's suggestion

List works as normal, except the top 6 people in the list can be rewarded the item randomly.

Everyone else is waiting in line to be the top 6 to have a chance at it.

Personally, I would find it very frustrating if this were the case. This is borderline participation trophies. And would not solve the problem. Someone in those top 6 slots would be not helping, and then get the item, and then a while new crapstorm is set off.

The list system will never be perfect. That being said, if the person in position 1, cant solo the mob, maybe they shouldn't be there. Maybe the change needed is an increase in list level requirements, and nothing else.

[Dolalin]

Galoch has said you can petition now if someone is sitting at #1 and not doing any work. Staff will action it.

[silo32]

saw a guy the other night fd at ass/sup for 17 hours and sit on the list at #1 and no one would help him... he just sat there watching tv fd at the camp and eventually got his mask when everyone else the next day broke camp and killed the mob for him

[silo32]

may can't come soon enough

but then again we gonna do this at the fun guy camp with pre nerf fun guy staffs too?

im so parking my monk there for about a week

[aismartin]

Galoch has said you can petition now if someone is sitting at #1 and not doing any work. Staff will action it.

What about 3 and 4. Currently have them letting group die due to them sitting and hogging spot for people that want to come help. We have a level 35 at position 1 pulling leaving me (number 2) to to all the work and eventually die.

[Tilien]

What about 3 and 4. Currently have them letting group die due to them sitting and hogging spot for people that want to come help. We have a level 35 at position 1 pulling leaving me (number 2) to to all the work and eventually die.

I think the statement by Galach was you need to help, not that you need to solo it as number 1. Presumably if the number 1 spot was trying to get people to coordinate to clear the camp they'd be off the hook but I guess we'll find out over the next few weeks how petitions pan out overall.

[Nirgon]

force engage timer by #1 - 10minutes

[Wallicker]

So what if #1 45warrior, #2 45cleric, #3 44warrior, #4 46Rogue, #5 50monk, #6 48shaman.

#1, 2, get guises #3 & #4 are helping for 10 hrs. #5 & #6 then decide to stop helping after each engage in hopes of getting 3 and 4 to die. There’s always a situation where people can abuse no matter how we make the rules. Your best bet is to duo these camps with a friend if you aren’t a solo class.

[cd288]

Galoch has said you can petition now if someone is sitting at #1 and not doing any work. Staff will action it.

Nice. As well intentioned as the list mechanic is, it's creating non-classic situations where people incapable of soloing the mob are showing up to sit on the list. Back in the classic era, you generally didn't join the player made list unless you were capable of soloing the mob (because you obviously needed to kill it to get loot rights) or were otherwise bringing a group that was also going to join the list.

[Haynar]

So many ways to grief.

Getting rare items is not a guarantee.

[Polixa]

So what if #1 45warrior, #2 45cleric, #3 44warrior, #4 46Rogue, #5 50monk, #6 48shaman.

#1, 2, get guises #3 & #4 are helping for 10 hrs. #5 & #6 then decide to stop helping after each engage in hopes of getting 3 and 4 to die. There’s always a situation where people can abuse no matter how we make the rules. Your best bet is to duo these camps with a friend if you aren’t a solo class.

Petition those people, and if I was. GM, that's 2 banned accounts, for disruption, exploitation of list mechanics, abuse of play nice policy, wearing a loud shirt in a rsidential area, and anything else that crosses my mind.

[Tilien]

So what if #1 45warrior, #2 45cleric, #3 44warrior, #4 46Rogue, #5 50monk, #6 48shaman.

#1, 2, get guises #3 & #4 are helping for 10 hrs. #5 & #6 then decide to stop helping after each engage in hopes of getting 3 and 4 to die. There’s always a situation where people can abuse no matter how we make the rules. Your best bet is to duo these camps with a friend if you aren’t a solo class.

Honestly this is the biggest dick move of all. Not helping is one thing, saying you've got #1's back and then laughing as they die is another.

[Vostok]

My idea:
Cant list if in group, but /listing automatically groups you with the top 6 people. The manastone is automatically rolled to the top 3 position players with maybe position 1 receiving a bonus on the automated roll. If the mob or place holder isnt killed an hour after being up the whole group is removed from the list.

Or just raise the /list level to 50.