Community stupidity is why warriors get a free pass

[Kanuvan]

People cant comprehend that a class can be completely worthless in leveling groups and the best raid tank, people that invite a warrior to my groups (my last one had 2) just makes me cringe and turns the group into a inefficient slog, they are just low damage non tanks who cant hold aggro or provide any utility whatsoever even monks tank better with their mend skill. people need to stop treating warriors like tanks during the "tank crisis" and treat them like a hybrid with no utility which is what they are in classic

[Whirled]

I could scratch my head wondering why it bothers you so much, but I'll give you a free pass instead.

[cd288]

Moved to RnF

[lordpazuzu]

Don't invite hybrids because of the exp penalty.
Don't invite warriors because of the low dps/utility.
Recruiting tanks to raid! Oh... Shit.

[Siege]

Don't invite hybrids because of the exp penalty.
Don't invite warriors because of the low dps/utility.
Recruiting tanks to raid! Oh... Shit.

Don't raid either. Raiding in Classic EverQuest is a horrific experience.

[this user was banned]

Those crippling blows though

[Kron]

Gnome warriors are majestic creatures that come out once every 20 years and you're telling me I can't invite this unicorn into my group because he makes you feel inferior?

Take your wizard that has been meding up for the past 3 kills and always oom, or your bard that only plays one song and ain't even the right one, or your druid that won't help the cleric heal but also seems to be only semi buffing so I'm not 100% what his really doing, or that necro that keeps breaking charm because he sent his pet on the wrong target, or that DK that won't summon his skelly for some weird reason...

We can nick pick every class and every player but in the end who cares because if you don't like it then how about YOU leave the group.

[Jean-Baptiste Cutting]

People cant comprehend that a class can be completely worthless in leveling groups and the best raid tank, people that invite a warrior to my groups (my last one had 2) just makes me cringe and turns the group into a inefficient slog, they are just low damage non tanks who cant hold aggro or provide any utility whatsoever even monks tank better with their mend skill. people need to stop treating warriors like tanks during the "tank crisis" and treat them like a hybrid with no utility which is what they are in classic

You must be fun at parties.

[Izmael]

I'm torn between WTF, TL;DR and DIAGF.

[Scoojitsu]

Everyone who plays their class well is a good addition to any group.

[BlackBellamy]

People cant comprehend that a class can be completely worthless in leveling groups and the best raid tank, people that invite a warrior to my groups (my last one had 2) just makes me cringe and turns the group into a inefficient slog, they are just low damage non tanks who cant hold aggro or provide any utility whatsoever even monks tank better with their mend skill. people need to stop treating warriors like tanks during the "tank crisis" and treat them like a hybrid with no utility which is what they are in classic

People can't comprehend that once they add the third person to their group they are fucking their experience gain beyond belief. Then they say stupid shit like the above. Pro tip chief: who you put in the last couple of spots doesn't matter because no full group levels as fast as a duo.

[Ahris]

People cant comprehend that a class can be completely worthless in leveling groups and the best raid tank, people that invite a warrior to my groups (my last one had 2) just makes me cringe and turns the group into a inefficient slog, they are just low damage non tanks who cant hold aggro or provide any utility whatsoever even monks tank better with their mend skill. people need to stop treating warriors like tanks during the "tank crisis" and treat them like a hybrid with no utility which is what they are in classic

I think learning to manage your aggro is just as important to non tanks as holding aggro is to a tank. If you can't adapt to your current group composition you're likely the problem, not the group.

Warriors are fine if you know how to play with one, sure they take a bit longer to get the mob's attention but they also save the group some mana and provide way more DPS than a paladin and probably an SK too. Personally I welcome warriors to any group I'm in and I say that as a paladin player. :)

[Mankong]

Ah yes, don't invite a group oriented class to groups so there aren't any at high levels. Smart.

[El-Hefe]

I think you confuse stupidity with “having fun and not being an asshole”.

Cool guys don’t care about min/maxing. In your scenario, you’re the problem OP.

[red_demonman]

Root solves this problem to a degree. Be creative, adapt.

Most group makeups right now will be non-ideal. Figure out how to make it work. That is some of the fun of green/teal IMO.

[Wurl]

I'd take 2 warriors over any class that OP is playing any day.

[zaneosak]

Why dont you just root the mob your warrior is tanking so he can tank it , root costs like 20 mana. Better than your rogue or ranger getting blasted.

[reznor_]

People cant comprehend that a class can be completely worthless in leveling groups and the best raid tank, people that invite a warrior to my groups (my last one had 2) just makes me cringe and turns the group into a inefficient slog, they are just low damage non tanks who cant hold aggro or provide any utility whatsoever even monks tank better with their mend skill. people need to stop treating warriors like tanks during the "tank crisis" and treat them like a hybrid with no utility which is what they are in classic

You are a fuck, and you should post your character names so myself and the rest of us know to never group with you. I can't imagine you'd be any fun to play with as it is.

There *will* be a tank crisis if we don't give at least a little support to people who want to play a warrior from the start. I play a monk now, and my next class would be a warrior because I didn't want to play an ungeared warrior on a fresh server from the start...people who do that are the real MVP. No shit they don't have snap aggro like a hybrid, but a well played warrior is a great contribution.

[Cen]

TC thinks this is wow and the warrior is the only one who controls who the mob attacks.

[Malikail]

ROFLMAO i can't believe this is a thread, good rant by the OP though, you can really hear his frustrations

[theonesler]

People don't know how to manage aggro anymore these days.

I remember back in the day people were much more purposeful with letting aggro be established before engaging. Like, a mob would come into camp and the tank (warrior in most instances) would spend 5-10 seconds establishing their aggro before others jumped in. No one does that in groups anymore and then the rogue or mage goes splat and yells, "What the hell?! Why didn't you tank? Where were my heals?!" *hits forehead* This is the negative effects on simple MMOs these days... no one pays attention to mechanical nuances.

[Polixa]

It is quite frustrating playing a warrior, knowing that you have the best mitigation in the group and yet the paladin wont stop getting aggro (because he can), and the druid who is getting beat on wont stop nuking while I am trying to taunt it off him, and the aggroed mage is hopping around the room like a rabbit making me chase the mob.

It is true warriors often have a hard time tanking, but there are things the group can do to help out, to make the group work better for all.

[YatilGoldenborn]

Thoughts and prayers.

[BlackBellamy]

It is quite frustrating playing a warrior, knowing that you have the best mitigation in the group and yet the paladin wont stop getting aggro (because he can), and the druid who is getting beat on wont stop nuking while I am trying to taunt it off him, and the aggroed mage is hopping around the room like a rabbit making me chase the mob.

It is true warriors often have a hard time tanking, but there are things the group can do to help out, to make the group work better for all.

I don't know I never get frustrated like that. I just go /g STOP STOP PULLING RIGHT NOW STOP EVERYTHING and then I tell everyone what to do. If they don't listen I kick or leave right away. Waste my time with that shit...

[kjs86z]

yikes

[mycoolrausch]

Reroll on blue. I saw a warrior in LCY with epic. Pretty good aggro!

[Veeshan31]

People don't know how to manage aggro anymore these days.

I remember back in the day people were much more purposeful with letting aggro be established before engaging. Like, a mob would come into camp and the tank (warrior in most instances) would spend 5-10 seconds establishing their aggro before others jumped in. No one does that in groups anymore and then the rogue or mage goes splat and yells, "What the hell?! Why didn't you tank? Where were my heals?!" *hits forehead* This is the negative effects on simple MMOs these days... no one pays attention to mechanical nuances.

most mobs die in 10 seconds. Are you really suggesting that we wait an additional 10 seconds before starting dps? That will double the kill time... I'd rather just invite a hybrid where we don't need to wait for agro.

[Quiksilver]

most mobs die in 10 seconds. Are you really suggesting that we wait an additional 10 seconds before starting dps? That will double the kill time... I'd rather just invite a hybrid where we don't need to wait for agro.

Seems like that's the trade off though. If you want your warrior to tank effectively, wait for an assist call and kill slower, or deal with hybrid exp penalty but have snap agro. Either way the exp flow doesn't change by much

[chevy79bu]

Everyone who plays their class well is a good addition to any group.

I'll add to this....

Everyone who plays well and is a fun person to socialize with is always invited to my groups.

Bigsham

[solleks]

They are the most efficient tanks exp wise, they don't steal your exp like hybrids. There is one catch, the rest of the group can't have brain damage because there is much aggro management needed.

[solleks]

That means you probably have brain damage op

[SkeletonLrodd]

People don't know how to manage aggro anymore these days.

I remember back in the day people were much more purposeful with letting aggro be established before engaging. Like, a mob would come into camp and the tank (warrior in most instances) would spend 5-10 seconds establishing their aggro before others jumped in. No one does that in groups anymore and then the rogue or mage goes splat and yells, "What the hell?! Why didn't you tank? Where were my heals?!" *hits forehead* This is the negative effects on simple MMOs these days... no one pays attention to mechanical nuances.

More likely years of being coddled by every warrior having 200 strength, 200 dex, haste, and 2 proccing weapons on Blue.

[dajudge]

OP is dumb dumb. Allow warrior to gain agroe for 10 seconds. The damage mitigation endured throughout entire fight allows for constant mana flow for entire group, constant pulls and safe leveling. OP deserves no raid loot ever, post your real game name pls.

Also, I bet you don’t enjoy the game for what it is either. Unless getting highest zem area camp. You’re probably the guy looting every droppable item and complaining about overweight issues and making group stop so you can go sell. You’re the scum of p99.

[Babizul]

My warrior that I am leveling holds Agro descent and usually does equal to or more dps than any other class in the group other than casters that spam cast and pull agro.

[Polycaster]

We can nick pick every class

False.
Necros.

[stewe]

You can tell most these "raiders" on p99 either didnt play in 99' or werent good enough to get into a raiding guild cause they think WAR were raid tanks during classic, hate to break it to you but the knight classes were the classic main tanks for raiding, WAR didnt even pull away from knights in raid tanking til they started getting their DISC, that example bit of HP WARs get didnt make up for knights aggro, so which one does everyone think it is, most the "raiders" here didnt actually play back in classic or they werent good enough to get into good raiding guilds, i think it is option 2 from the way ive seen them needing to exploit mobs and items to kill their targets here.

[stewe]

You can tell most these "raiders" on p99 either didnt play in 99' or werent good enough to get into a raiding guild cause they think WAR were raid tanks during classic, hate to break it to you but the knight classes were the classic main tanks for raiding, WAR didnt even pull away from knights in raid tanking til they started getting their DISC, that example bit of HP WARs get didnt make up for knights aggro, so which one does everyone think it is, most the "raiders" here didnt actually play back in classic or they werent good enough to get into good raiding guilds, i think it is option 2 from the way ive seen them needing to exploit mobs and items to kill their targets here.

Extra bit of HP not example bit of hp, wouldnt let me edit my post

[Hibbs]

Dear Kanuvan,

You sound like a fun person to game.

[Hibbs]

Dear Kanuvan,

You sound like a fun person to game.

with**



New Rant... No editing on RnF:mad::mad:

[vossiewulf]

Why do asshole (by definition) min-maxers always think that if others don't share their idiotic obsession it is because they are too stupid to understand the min-maxer's true genius of pouring over data models and totally ignoring human factors?

Here are the real rules of successful EQ classic grouping:

1. Have to have someone to tank.
2. Have to have someone who can keep tank standing.
3. Fill out open slots by taking people who play their class really well and mostly ignore what those classes are.

Good players and groups can easily and skillfully modify their tactics to maximize the output of any collection of character types and a group chosen by player skill will always do much better and have much more fun than a group chosen by class. The reason being OP, since you're not very bright, is that the latter wipes all the time, the former doesn't.

[Asteria]

People cant comprehend that a class can be completely worthless in leveling groups and the best raid tank, people that invite a warrior to my groups (my last one had 2) just makes me cringe and turns the group into a inefficient slog, they are just low damage non tanks who cant hold aggro or provide any utility whatsoever even monks tank better with their mend skill. people need to stop treating warriors like tanks during the "tank crisis" and treat them like a hybrid with no utility which is what they are in classic

Who let the simpleton outta the asylum?? :confused::confused::(

[Asteria]

Why do asshole (by definition) min-maxers always think that if others don't share their idiotic obsession it is because they are too stupid to understand the min-maxer's true genius of pouring over data models and totally ignoring human factors?

Here are the real rules of successful EQ classic grouping:

1. Have to have someone to tank.
2. Have to have someone who can keep tank standing.
3. Fill out open slots by taking people who play their class really well and mostly ignore what those classes are.

Good players and groups can easily and skillfully modify their tactics to maximize the output of any collection of character types and a group chosen by player skill will always do much better and have much more fun than a group chosen by class. The reason being OP, since you're not very bright, is that the latter wipes all the time, the former doesn't.

+100

[Jimjam]

+100

But making friends is suboptimal!

[Rick Sanchez]

OP needs to understand EQ was designed to be a social game with an amazing journey. Sure you can min/max it all the time and drive yourself mad. Believe me, I feel you in regards to efficiency 100%. But in the long run, you are in charge of your own choices, don't like the group ? leave it's that simple man. Find a couple of people to group with that share your mindset and go for it. Don't put yourself in a situation and stay there then bitch about it. Remember that social aspect of EQ ? /reputation.

[Nirgon]

Had a full banded ranger tank my Unrest group no problem

Kept threat off my twinked rogue

Everyone left happy

[Chardy]

People cant comprehend that a class can be completely worthless in leveling groups and the best raid tank, people that invite a warrior to my groups (my last one had 2) just makes me cringe and turns the group into a inefficient slog, they are just low damage non tanks who cant hold aggro or provide any utility whatsoever even monks tank better with their mend skill. people need to stop treating warriors like tanks during the "tank crisis" and treat them like a hybrid with no utility which is what they are in classic


ahem...REEEEEEEE!!!!

[vossiewulf]

Had a full banded ranger tank my Unrest group no problem

Kept threat off my twinked rogue

Everyone left happy

Our first mains were paladins, PALLIES. No one knew better at the time and we'd played paladinish characters in another game.

But early on, as you know, they were terrible. But still, when we signed on each night there would be an extended group of 20-30 people who would all race to send us tells to get a spot for the group tonight. Makes no sense, right? Why would people want to play with not one of the worst character types but TWO?

Reason was group always did well in loot and exp and (almost) never wiped. I was puller, if something went significantly wrong I would never bring the problem back to the group, I'd find a good /corpseable spot and stay there while the group evaced one way or another. There wouldn't even be much downtime, as my partner would take over pulling and tanking and she was very good. And everyone in that extended group ranged from good to really really good and would handle unexpected events very smoothly. My favorite moments were always when something unexpected happened and the group wouldn't make it through and go "whew!", everyone would do the exact right thing(s) and make it look easy. Pfft, mobs gotta try harder than THAT.

So despite the lack of dps and the exp penalty, the lack of death and therefore constant upward progress always resulted in faster progress over time than that of people who min-maxed groups much more but died every other day.

We had a good ranger friend we played with a lot too. Two pallies and a ranger in a party, my god. But he was really, really good at rangering and we always did really well with him and had a good time. Like Nirgon's case, everyone always left happy we'd had Dulsin in the group.

Point being the difference between the "strongest" and "weakest" character types can be very much minimized or even erased if the person playing the weaker end takes the time to really study their capabilities and experiment with various tactics and just basically push themselves hard to maximize their value as a player through skillful and well thought-out execution.

And again that's why we always focused on who we knew that was good much more than what character type they played when setting up groups.

[Tuljin]

Good players and groups can easily and skillfully modify their tactics to maximize the output of any collection of character types and a group chosen by player skill will always do much better and have much more fun than a group chosen by class. The reason being OP is that the latter wipes all the time, the former doesn't.

If you play in a group without good casters your group will be a horrible inefficient slog no matter what. The truth is on Green you find whoever the hell can take hits and keep mobs turned. Groups are all about having going casters, period. If you have a group with good casters they'll root the mobs and war will root tank and it will be fine and they won't complain one peep. Odds are if you are complaining about this though you are sitting around getting your xp riding coattails anyways.

The amount of awful inefficient groups I've seen on this server is impressive. It has nothing to do with class composition and everything to do with not knowing the basics of EQ. It also has to do with many players unwillingness to learn how to actually be efficient not "roll an efficient class."

On Green anybody good on -any- class is welcome. When every knucklehead melee "rAiDeR" isn't running around with their DKP loot piñata gear you actually see that Wizards can be great in a group and they are quite welcome now. "rAiDeRs" never rolled a Necro because "tHeY cAnT gRoUp" and look now. It's tons of hot air and people with no clue. Just don't be a nub and that's that.

[Wallicker]

OP are you masamune<Asgard>? Please say yes bc that would make two 2/10 threads instantly become 10/10

[ScottBerta]

I would think a warrior with dual wield would be better dps than a SK, Pal and most casters if the Warrior was hasted and had str buff.

[Tethler]

Warriors do decent melee DPS; certainly more than pally/SK. Threat is a non-issue if your group roots mobs. OP sounds like a douche.

[greenspectre]

Shammy here, I always root when a warrior is MT'ing, makes it a non-issue and I get to load up DoTs without worry if more DPS is needed. All I gotta do is make sure warrior understands how root aggro works and I'm g2g. It's classic EQ, warriors gonna suck at holding aggro, but I'd still rather have one than tank things myself, and would still probably take one over a pally or SK if I could since it means quicker exp.

[Fammaden]

Why would you use dots in a full group on xp trash rather than just tossing a nuke to help finish at the end?

[greenspectre]

In a full group I would be tossing in a nuke, but it's not always a full group mowing down trash :) I dot if the DPS is necessary.

[Arkophat]

As greenspectre stated, root mobs and end of aggro story.
Even better if you are a shammy use flash of light, less mana and doesn't break with that nuke.

[Arkophat]

About flash of light, forgot clerics could use it too...
That s a huge mana save move for a cleric since he won't have to heal whoever gets aggro but just the warrior.
There's a reason why paladins use it at will.
And no cleric isn't just about throwing a heal..
Teamwork you know..

[DMN]

Flash of light lasts like 10 seconds.

[Arkophat]

Flash of light lasts like 10 seconds.

Hey you know what, it was previously stated that mobs live 10secs.
Even though they don't 2 flash of lights is less mana that 1 root.
Do the math.

[DMN]

Hey you know what, it was previously stated that mobs live 10secs.
Even though they don't 2 flash of lights is less mana that 1 root.
Do the math.

let us know when you've made it out of oasis.

[Arkophat]

let us know when you've made it out of oasis.

I m sorry sir you didn't find groups with appropriate dps

[Morratiz]

I hope you make it past the low 30's keep giving those wars a chance it'll pay off

[Mercius]

as a ranger i love warriors i will root every single mob and they use dps instead of shit damage proc weapons, works gud

[entruil]

Warriors op buff necros

[Kithani]

let us know when you've made it out of oasis.

Damn son

[reznor_]

let us know when you've made it out of oasis.

rip

[LimittzW]

Not sure what level you are at.. but warriors get obsidian shards lvl 16+ and just need to hit 105 dex mark for it to proc efficiently. Either root mob on pull, or wait till you see a warrior proc to go all out on mob, not a difficult concept =].

[Nordok]

I can hold agro and do good damage, especially with crits, if I attack the mob first. But people will pull agro if they slow / use bard mez / nuke too early or proc. And if you use proc weapons like shards then you can get agro WHEN they proc but you'll have zero agro until they do while also doing garbage DPS. There was this bad warrior named Thegirth who was getting mad because he couldn't pull agro off me with my 2h and eventually started using his hours later after he finally got it. Even though I mentioned it.

So wars can have a hard time with agro but they can also mitigate alot of damage with decent AC gear and do good damage with a 2h from double attack and crits. Especially if there's another tank in the group so they can sit in zerker or if the healers is decent who can drop a heal if you dip below 1.5 red bubbles like I did for 28 levels. I also soloed blues in permanent zerker with combat bandage.

Here's me doing it unrest because our druid main healer wasn't retarded. Check out that double crit too. Even though you can hit for 180+ at that level.

https://i.imgur.com/dckJ4ox.jpg

[Evets]

They are the most efficient tanks exp wise, they don't steal your exp like hybrids. There is one catch, the rest of the group can't have brain damage because there is much aggro management needed.

+1 That's more or less what I was going to say

[Mead]

no replies by op

looks like good troll

[dammar665]

OP obviously doesn't play for fun. Of course I want good xp and for things to run smoothly but I'd rather have fun and good times playing the game rather than being a min/max crybaby bitch.