Not soloing a /list for someone else

[Intensifier]

Leave it to some people to ruin this mechanic...i logged in early today to get a camp.. I am quite frustrated as a lower lvl barely high enough to do the camp was harboring the #1 spot... 2 others left because no its not worth it to do that for people... if you cant handle it bring help .. or get higher level.. my point to this is only this maybe just implement a kill safe .. as in if you do not touch the mob in over an hour or the ph .. that you are removed or warned if you do not do anything to the said PH or MOb you lose your spot... i logged in to only find non of the mobs killed and lvl 35 unable to handle the camp for certain waiting for people to join so he could get it first...



GREAT MECHANIC btw the /list is awesome.. but some people will abuse it but just maybe this could work?

[Intensifier]

Yeah im about to leave the camp.. its just not worth it to kill something that i could be there for 10 hours for someone to be ahead of me...and thats 10 hours for there drop who knows for mine

[Nirgon]

You mean you dont want to farm a spawn for someone else for 12+ hours while they just sit there waiting to loot it?

Oh man how selfish! :rolleyes:

[BlackBellamy]

That's beyond fucked up someone would ask a developer to take their time and effort and code some functionality because they themselves do not want to take the effort to clear someones spawn so they can move up the list.

[Erati]

what camp?

[cd288]

Yeah it's a weird situation. On the one hand, why not just group up with the person and you guys can both get some XP while killing mobs?

On the other, this is a flaw in the system. Apparently the intent is simply to mimic the old classic way of doing things where people would create informal lists. However, the issue that arises is that in the old days you needed to be able to kill the mob because that's how you got the loot rights. They weren't awarded by computer code to the next person on the list. As such, in the classic days you wouldn't even bother going to the camp to join any list unless you could kill the mob yourself. I've come to see this as a really big flaw in the system that's actually creating a more unclassic situation by permitting people who otherwise wouldn't be there to get on the list.

[Octopath]

That's beyond fucked up someone would ask a developer to take their time and effort and code some functionality because they themselves do not want to take the effort to clear someones spawn so they can move up the list.

Agreed

So now I have to make a solo class if I want to get a list item?

[this user was banned]

Agreed

So now I have to make a group if I want to get a list item?

FTFY

[Frostback]

AFK checks can have an opposite effect, especially for long camps. It's easy to watch tv or do other things on the computer while periodically checking the afk box, which is very appealing to classes with hide or feign death. As it stands the person at position #1 on a list is not responsible for clearing ph's and killing the listed mob. I wish camp rules would apply to the list rules, that way if someone is #1 on the list for an item and is not engaging the listed mob in a reasonable ammount of time, it would fall under zone/area disruption.

You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area. (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651)
Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players.

/list is supposed to help the volunteer staff with the amount of petitions that come from contested camps. I hope it's helping.

[Phaezed-Reality]

lol, had something simular to us happen. I'm not here to farm pixels for people who simply stand in line, either u kill it or bring people with you who can. we waited 2.5 hours for someone other then the person in #1 spot to bring a group of people to kill it.

I won't even mention what happened next because its done and over with. but yea. Sorry im not farming anyone who is afk/cant kill shit that is on list.

[BurtMacklinFBI]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3021905&postcount=12

ive heard GMs arent actually following thru with this. bad omen.

[Fammaden]

Has anyone actually had success with such a petition?

[Donkey Hotay]

Maybe that policy got hip-checked by Rogean and Llandris got Braknar'd.

[Nirgon]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3021905&postcount=12

ive heard GMs arent actually following thru with this. bad omen.

I appreciate their efforts and they actually do their best but I sat and waited on a stalled camp for hours after being awake for God knows how long until some white knight (who griefed himself off the game) formed a group for the lady Avatar's character who was stalling.

Did I mention I am a fan of PvP servers?

[Phaezed-Reality]

that guy literally griefed himself off the game by getting his own friends to kill for this lady avatars BP, and then he would have gotten his right when nirgons dropped, cause it spawned back to back with BP's, instead he died to a train and i have not seen him logged in since.

be careful what you do for people. Cause i bet that lady avatar whoever he/she was forgot his name as soon as she left with her BP. and now i check to see if he is on, he is never on.

[Polixa]

I don't have a character high enough for /list so I'm not writing with any first hand knowledge of list camps.

Suppose I /list and join a group, as a class/level not able to solo the Eye. As the listees get their items I have been helping everyone. But by the time I get to the #1 spot, the people behind me are selfish pricks who won't pull their weight to get the mobs killed, and instead complain at me for not "bringing a group".

You want a mechanic that will screw me over because I cant entice someone to trek all the way down to LGuk to sit with me for god knows how long until I get my stone?

[Phaezed-Reality]

I don't have a character high enough for /list so I'm not writing with any first hand knowledge of list camps.

Suppose I /list and join a group, as a class/level not able to solo the Eye. As the listees get their items I have been helping everyone. But by the time I get to the #1 spot, the people behind me are selfish pricks who won't pull their weight to get the mobs killed, and instead complain at me for not "bringing a group".

You want a mechanic that will screw me over because I cant entice someone to trek all the way down to LGuk to sit with me for god knows how long until I get my stone?

no i want you to be proper level so you can kill it urself, the reason why the list level is low so you can do exactly that, get your own grp to kill it. because its classic to be able to group it. However, i am not your pal, not your friend, and i am not going to wait 60 hours in line to help u kill urs when u can't.

[Polixa]

no i want you to be proper level so you can kill it urself, the reason why the list level is low so you can do exactly that, get your own grp to kill it. because its classic to be able to group it. However, i am not your pal, not your friend, and i am not going to wait 60 hours in line to help u kill urs when u can't.

If the staff wanted this to be a solo camp they would have made that be the rule.

[Octopath]

Does the guise camp deal with this same toxicity? Even at lvl 50 my ranger wouldn’t be able to solo that camp.

[Phaezed-Reality]

If the staff wanted this to be a solo camp they would have made that be the rule.

exactly, they made the rule so you could grp it. If im not in your grp, lol. and im down there listing. u have made a very very bad error of judgement that im here to help you.

[Phaezed-Reality]

why don't u just come to the tunnel after i farm u that legacy item, and ill give you some free plat to go with it?

[BlackBellamy]

So it's just pure spite? Willing to sit and stare at the motherfucking screen for hours because the guy in front of you is stalled? And you could unstall him but fuck that little bitch piece of shit cunt?

[Phaezed-Reality]

So it's just pure spite? Willing to sit and stare at the motherfucking screen for hours because the guy in front of you is stalled? And you could unstall him but fuck that little bitch piece of shit cunt?

not spite, why are you listing at a camp you can't kill. why are you expecting people to kill it for you, why can't you level up like i did to solo it if you cant bring friends? Why all the expectation on other people? Sorry but im not your friend, pal. Bring your friends.

[Octopath]

So with guise, is there usually a group there anyways for the TBB?

So say I’m on list and #1 but there is a group killing for TBB there. Is it acceptable to kill from outside the group?

[jacobar]

i am not your pal, not your friend.

ouch

[Lewkeng]

ah so this how they clearing out the list huh

[solleks]

Communism sucks, sorry The Beatles

[Wallicker]

Does the guise camp deal with this same toxicity? Even at lvl 50 my ranger wouldn’t be able to solo that camp.

You can solo this camp at 50 as a ranger, it’s a couple mobs on a 28 minute timer. You’d have to root and ensnare to split via camping but once broken it would be relatively simple. Using roots/dots/melee on a couple mobs on a 28 min timer .

[Man0warr]

On Teal I haven't seen an issue with it at Guise, but TBB is worth a lot of plat so not a lot of reason not to keep it clear even if you aren't interested in Guise.

[turbosilk]

Yeah it's a weird situation. On the one hand, why not just group up with the person and you guys can both get some XP while killing mobs?

On the other, this is a flaw in the system. Apparently the intent is simply to mimic the old classic way of doing things where people would create informal lists. However, the issue that arises is that in the old days you needed to be able to kill the mob because that's how you got the loot rights. They weren't awarded by computer code to the next person on the list. As such, in the classic days you wouldn't even bother going to the camp to join any list unless you could kill the mob yourself. I've come to see this as a really big flaw in the system that's actually creating a more unclassic situation by permitting people who otherwise wouldn't be there to get on the list.

I was there just before Intesifier and had to go as well after some interactions with the person #1 on the list. The reason he (and I) didn't group with this person is because the person stated he thought it was risky to clear with so few people so he wasn't going to put himself at risk by helping. Clearly a party foul here. Both of us left because this person wasn't willing to help clear the camp he was #1 on the list for.

[Phaezed-Reality]

I was there just before Intesifier and had to go as well after some interactions with the person #1 on the list. The reason he (and I) didn't group with this person is because the person stated he thought it was risky to clear with so few people so he wasn't going to put himself at risk by helping. Clearly a party foul here. Both of us left because this person wasn't willing to help clear the camp he was #1 on the list for.

gasp, someone in #1 position not able to clear the camp. expecting other people to do it for him? well i never.

[shuklak]

This is what's wrong with p99 [today].

Camp entitlements and party politics getting in the way of good old fashion gaming.

[Tuljin]

So nubs want a manastone to make it easier for them to get thru the game while still being a nub and not learning how to play?

[YendorLootmonkey]

not spite, why are you listing at a camp you can't kill. why are you expecting people to kill it for you, why can't you level up like i did to solo it if you cant bring friends? Why all the expectation on other people? Sorry but im not your friend, pal. Bring your friends.

I hope you feel the same way at a legacy item camp with 3 days left until the nerf, you're #2 on the list, #1 can't clear the camp/ph solo, time's running out, and the only thing standing between you and your last shot at getting a legacy item is your own pride and indignation at having to help someone else to help yourself.

Sounds very low INT and unenlightened to me.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

However, the issue that arises is that in the old days you needed to be able to kill the mob because that's how you got the loot rights. They weren't awarded by computer code to the next person on the list. As such, in the classic days you wouldn't even bother going to the camp to join any list unless you could kill the mob yourself.

This is what I have been saying almost since the very first thread that someone created to rant about the manastone camp.

Just like OP suggests, they need to change it so that if the PH/named has not been killed for X amount of time then the person first on the list should be moved to the bottom of the list.

When this was first suggested, the majority of people pushed back and claimed it to be a greedy and selfish idea, etc.

It looks like now that people have had time to experience the scenario in OP's post first-hand they are now coming to their senses. Please fix this devs! No more list camp leechers!!!

[ZiggyTheMuss]

You want a mechanic that will screw me over because I cant entice someone to trek all the way down to LGuk to sit with me for god knows how long until I get my stone?

I would really like to be able to get a CoF off of Nagafen but I can't solo him unfortunately. Are you seriously telling me that I need to join a guild or make friends or convince people to trek all the way down to his lair and poopsock him for god knows how long until I get my CoF?

See, the problem is that you are saying "my stone" even in this imaginary scenario. That shows the level of entitlement right there that a lot of players have. It's a super rare, coveted item. It's not supposed to be EASY to get. It's not supposed to be like the latest iPhone where everyone runs out to all get it.

#STOPLISTLEECHING

[Phaezed-Reality]

I hope you feel the same way at a legacy item camp with 3 days left until the nerf, you're #2 on the list, #1 can't clear the camp/ph solo, time's running out, and the only thing standing between you and your last shot at getting a legacy item is your own pride and indignation at having to help someone else to help yourself.

Sounds very low INT and unenlightened to me.

you enjoy your eq, ill enjoy mine. I personally do not help people i do not know at 70+ hour legacy item camps not knowing them. lol. I respect you for helping out people who didn't work for their items though, thats on you. I'm just tired of sled dogging after years of it on this project. I won't do it for just any guild and i certainly won't do it for just some random person on the list.

[aaezil]

exactly, they made the rule so you could grp it. If im not in your grp, lol. and im down there listing. u have made a very very bad error of judgement that im here to help you.

You sound very cool and normal, totally socially adjusted human being

[YendorLootmonkey]

you enjoy your eq, ill enjoy mine. I personally do not help people i do not know at 70+ hour legacy item camps not knowing them. lol. I respect you for helping out people who didn't work for their items though, thats on you. I'm just tired of sled dogging after years of it on this project. I won't do it for just any guild and i certainly won't do it for just some random person on the list.

Then you shouldn't be roleplaying a high INT enlightened Erudite. ;)

[Phaezed-Reality]

You sound very cool and normal, totally socially adjusted human being

hah, i have never made that claim ! infact if you know me, you know i am completely not!

[enjchanter]

You mean you dont want to farm a spawn for someone else for 12+ hours while they just sit there waiting to loot it?

Oh man how selfish! :rolleyes:

[Zal22]

no i want you to be proper level so you can kill it urself, the reason why the list level is low so you can do exactly that, get your own grp to kill it. because its classic to be able to group it. However, i am not your pal, not your friend, and i am not going to wait 60 hours in line to help u kill urs when u can't.

Drug addicted red players on the new servers. You best believe they are all bad apple filled with shit types.

Worst part is they will not....stop....posting!!

[Wonkie]

Pixels denied, tears supplied. Thanks OP!

[Polixa]

you enjoy your eq, ill enjoy mine. I personally do not help people i do not know at 70+ hour legacy item camps not knowing them. lol. I respect you for helping out people who didn't work for their items though, thats on you. I'm just tired of sled dogging after years of it on this project. I won't do it for just any guild and i certainly won't do it for just some random person on the list.

You are perfectly entitled to have that attitude and drop off the list when you notice someone listed ahead of you is a cleric, or a warrior, or only L35, and therefore probably not expecting to solo the Eye.

Not everyone deserves to get a manastone after all.

[Kohedron]

Wowow classic server with classic mechanics, I lovei t

[galach]

If you are #1 on the list you need to assist. We will start removing people if they sit there afk for hours upon end without helping. Please petition going forward.

[shuklak]

Then you shouldn't be roleplaying a high INT enlightened Erudite. ;)

His long con could be to help impact change for future generations.

By enabling leeches you prolong the problem.

[azeth]

If you are #1 on the list you need to assist. We will start removing people if they sit there afk for hours upon end without helping. Please petition going forward.

wow. big step forward

[Magerin]

Im supersized it took this long for people to catch on to this. People are just making level 35 toons that can kite to 35 then sit on camps waiting for others to do the work for them. way to break the spirit of the rule Lolz that it took this long to make it to RnF. There really should be a PH/Named check added to it so RMTers dont sit on camps on both green / teal only doing AFK checks and waiting for others to do the work for them.

[Man0warr]

If you are #1 on the list you need to assist. We will start removing people if they sit there afk for hours upon end without helping. Please petition going forward.

What about people #1 on list who are willing to help kill it but the people behind them refuse to assist because they want to get #1 kicked off the list? I'm guessing if you are #1 on list you need to keep logs now to prove you were willing to assist for this inevitable GM situation.

[turbosilk]

Everyone on list should be helping. Don't be that person that doesn't help.

[uygi]

If you are #1 on the list you need to assist. We will start removing people if they sit there afk for hours upon end without helping. Please petition going forward.

I appreciate the intent, but am concerned for implementation. Let’s say I’m a melee, I’m bound a 20 minute run from the /list camp, and I can’t safely solo the mob but duo/trio would be fine.

I’m #1. I don’t want to die, because then I start all over. I don’t want to engage cus I don’t want to die. #2 has every incentive to either let me die, or petition me for not engaging.

The whole thing should be governed by the /list mechanics IMO. Remove petitions and everything completely. Maybe /list needs an adjustment, I don’t know, but the whole damn point of the mechanic is to set some rigid criteria dictating who gets what, when and how.

If #1 can be petitioned and removed for not contributing to the kill(s), can #2 and #3 be petitioned and removed for refusing to contribute?

[Octopath]

What about people #1 on list who are willing to help kill it but the people behind them refuse to assist because they want to get #1 kicked off the list? I'm guessing if you are #1 on list you need to keep logs now to prove you were willing to assist for this inevitable GM situation.

He said if you sit afk for hours. So I’d imagine if you are present at the pc and trying to get a group or help to keep the camp going, the gm wouldn’t kick you. You aren’t just sitting there afk waiting for someone else. I hope I am right in this

[Erati]

This was a concern of mine when this was still in Beta being tested

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2997710&postcount=224

in general I wager if the #1 person on the list is mostly AFK/underleveled - theres no incentive for anyone else to help him and could simply let the room spawn killing him so the list moves up.

Scout is somewhat a server rule, and at least initially Listed items have no ruleset encouraging you to help - its actually the opposite.

[ccs88]

I camped Jboots and said the other people could kill everything for exp. You're there doing afk checks anyway. Who cares. Be thankful /list even exists.

[ccs88]

I camped Jboots and said the other people could kill everything for exp. You're there doing afk checks anyway. Who cares. Be thankful /list even exists.

It also makes the camp go exponentially faster. You don't want to sit there while a druid root/rots every spawn do you?

[Kirdan]

If you're #1 and worried that #2 and #3 won't help when you engage, it sounds like you need to find some help to do the camp. It's not the responsibility of #2 and #3 to help you. It's cool if they do, but this isn't scout roll. You shouldn't /list unless you can either solo it or bring your own help to clear it.

[derpcake2]

my halfling warrior is 34, looking forward to queuing for 70 hours while afk

see you at EE

[azeth]

The best idea i've read is to randomly give loot rights to every list member #1-#6 or so. Not always to #1

[Kirdan]

I agree that adding some random component to those on the list is the best solution I've seen. I like weighting the roll to those who have been there longest though. More time put in = better chance you win, and everyone on the list is incentivized to help keep it clear.

[Evia]

I agree that adding some random component to those on the list is the best solution I've seen. I like weighting the roll to those who have been there longest though. More time put in = better chance you win, and everyone on the list is incentivized to help keep it clear.

I like this

[ccs88]

Can't change it now. Would be unfair to everyone who's camped the past 2 months. /thread

[LiQuid]

I don't understand the mentality of "if you're #1 on the /list, BYOG to kill the mob for you" if you're on the /list in #2, 3, etc positions YOU'RE IN HIS GROUP... #1 shouldn't have to call their guildies and friends to come help clear the camp because if this was the classic way that #1 guy's friends and guildies would just own that camp until they all owned the item or abandoned the camp, so you're being #2 on the list would mean jack shit

By signing up in #2, 3, etc position you're basically signing up to participate in the camp, in which case, help clear the mobs and move the camp along and stop being such a toxic neckbeard that thinks you're aren't entitled to a drop if you aren't a level 50 solo class

I understand it sucks if you have a guy in #1 that is AFK/hide/FD and refusing to even help kill the PH until his item dropped. That's toxic and that guy should be smitten by Llandris... But all you people in the #2+ spot refusing to help the number 1 guy just because he's only lvl 35 and can't solo the camp are the actual worst

[Kirdan]

Agreed, I'll help people ahead of me as long as they're participating in the clear.

[Erati]

it boggles my mind people sign up for a 'camp' then dont actually take part in the camp they have signed up for, it doesn't make sense :confused:

[Octopath]

I don't understand the mentality of "if you're #1 on the /list, BYOG to kill the mob for you" if you're on the /list in #2, 3, etc positions YOU'RE IN HIS GROUP... #1 shouldn't have to call their guildies and friends to come help clear the camp because if this was the classic way that #1 guy's friends and guildies would just own that camp until they all owned the item or abandoned the camp, so you're being #2 on the list would mean jack shit

By signing up in #2, 3, etc position you're basically signing up to participate in the camp, in which case, help clear the mobs and move the camp along and stop being such a toxic neckbeard that thinks you're aren't entitled to a drop if you aren't a level 50 solo class

I understand it sucks if you have a guy in #1 that is AFK/hide/FD and refusing to even help kill the PH until his item dropped. That's toxic and that guy should be smitten by Llandris... But all you people in the #2+ spot refusing to help the number 1 guy just because he's only lvl 35 and can't solo the camp are the actual worst

Well said

[Wallicker]

If you can’t solo the camp you should be lvl 50 not 35

[aismartin]

Do lvl 35's reduce the drop rate? I have seen two 50's get drop back to back. But when a low level is number one on list drops seem less frequent.

[grinsly]

Do lvl 35's reduce the drop rate? I have seen two 50's get drop back to back. But when a low level is number one on list drops seem less frequent.

Nice confirmation bias

[shuklak]

I'm entitled to pixels cause I stood in line!

[aismartin]

Nice confirmation bias

No bias, just genuinely want to know if people notice this if its a thing.

[Castle2.0]

THINK PEOPLE

You are #1 on list.

At #2-6 spot on the list why would someone help YOU kill the named if refusing to do so will move them move up the list by kicking YOU off?

If this is how it works, the only people that will help you kill are people NOT[/b[ on the list.

Who is going to help someone camp a legacy item for 70 hours who is [b]NOT on the list? For 99% of people, NO ONE. The other 1% are neckbeards who account share. Sorry beckbeards, /list wasn't made for you, it was made because of you.

This proposed solution makes the problem worse.

Don't change list. Adding in silly participation requirements will just bring more CSR issues.

A question I am dying to know:

Do you want the Devs to code or CSR the following issues?

• Do non-PH, non-legacy mobs at camp need to be participated in?
• Can #1, a cleric, heal AFTER each fight when aggro is clear instead of during?
• Can they heal after each round of mobs instead of during?
• How much HP do they have to heal to be considered "participating"?
• What buffs must they supply?
• How many seconds can there be between 1 buff dropping and it being reapplied?
• How often will these "assistance checks" be?
• What will these "assistance checks" be based on? Mezzing, healing, bind wound, buffs, pet damage.....?
• If a druid only casts "Burst of Flame" each fight at the end, is that participation?

LegalQuesters gonna LegalQuest. List sucks, but it's better than other alternatives. Deal with it.

[brood]

Having to deal with this right now on teal. We have a monk that's been feign death for a long time. Gm popped in and now he stands up does about 50 damage and flops again and remains afk.

[BlackBellamy]

hilarious

fucking dying here reading this shit

[shuklak]

THINK PEOPLE

You are #1 on list.

At #2-6 spot on the list why would someone help YOU kill the named if refusing to do so will move them move up the list by kicking YOU off?

If this is how it works, the only people that will help you kill are people NOT[/b[ on the list.

Who is going to help someone camp a legacy item for 70 hours who is [b]NOT on the list? For 99% of people, NO ONE. The other 1% are neckbeards who account share. Sorry beckbeards, /list wasn't made for you, it was made because of you.

This proposed solution makes the problem worse.

Don't change list. Adding in silly participation requirements will just bring more CSR issues.

A question I am dying to know:

Do you want the Devs to code or CSR the following issues?

• Do non-PH, non-legacy mobs at camp need to be participated in?
• Can #1, a cleric, heal AFTER each fight when aggro is clear instead of during?
• Can they heal after each round of mobs instead of during?
• How much HP do they have to heal to be considered "participating"?
• What buffs must they supply?
• How many seconds can there be between 1 buff dropping and it being reapplied?
• How often will these "assistance checks" be?
• What will these "assistance checks" be based on? Mezzing, healing, bind wound, buffs, pet damage.....?
• If a druid only casts "Burst of Flame" each fight at the end, is that participation?

LegalQuesters gonna LegalQuest. List sucks, but it's better than other alternatives. Deal with it.
Or maybe people will just make sure they can solo the camp if they have no friends.

Maybe level 35 warriors don't actually deserve a mana stone just because they waited in line.

[aaezil]

Or maybe people will just make sure they can solo the camp if they have no friends.

Maybe level 35 warriors don't actually deserve a mana stone just because they waited in line.

Yes all the pixels are yours and nobody else can have them we can tell you have been playing here a long time little guy

[greenspectre]

Not looking forward to any of this list nonsense for my shaman's Guise. I feel like on paper the list system is perfect and encourages everyone to help kill, get the list moved along as fast as possible, and build community.

Instead it seems like the system is geared to contradict itself.

Numbers 2+ on the list are incentivized not to kill the mob at all in hopes that #1 dies during the engagement, or petition when they don't engage or kill.

Number 1 is incentivized to not engage, because engagement risks death, and if they are a melee character not bound in Grobb, Oggok, or Neriak for their respective camps, it will be impossible to get back to camp in time after a death.

Yes, ideally number 1 is in a group and the group is mowing down mobs and keeping camp and PH's clear, but if you have 6 people on the list for an item, they should be THAT GROUP. Without /list you'd be in the group with that 35 warrior killing mobs, hoping it drops for a chance at that sweet /ran 100. With /list you have a bunch of people refusing to help, claiming if that 35 warrior can't break camp they don't deserve the item.

Ugh, not looking forward to any of this on my shaman in 10 levels...

[Zal22]

Everyone always said the beards would find a way to abuse the system....Was bound to happen.

It is not the guy that gets to #1 only to suddenly get no help who is holding the camp hostage. #2 and those after trying to force someone out to move up are the bad eggs.

How pathetic do you have to be to grief someone out of #1 because they cant solo? They have obviously been there longer then you, otherwise you would be #1

[vossiewulf]

Any character that takes any offensive action against a mob that is low green at their level gets insta-killed. Second time, insta-killed and inventory emptied. Third time, kill, inventory, and an equipped item.

End of level-inappropriate farming, and already controls in place to prevent people from creating 1000 accounts.

So high level characters who want low-level farm stuff now have to hire lower-level players to do the farming for them for a cut of the loot. Maybe they sit and buff/heal said players to speed things along.

And make a very, very simple rule for the high-level campholders: no one can hold a camp for more than four hours. If you didn't get all your thingies or your platinum-encrusted panties didn't drop, that's the breaks, try again tomorrow. Although it seems unlikely that high levels couldn't convince low levels to farm for them by throwing a little plat around, if no one wants to farm for you again that's the breaks. Try again when more people are online.

Can use /list still for that part, except it changes to a straight timer. That ensures a regular changeover of the campholders that should allow anyone who really wants to to have a turn or three.

If the server ever runs out of low level characters, you revisit the rule.

That should generate a healthy dynamic. No set of characters can hold any camp for very long, if nothing else they /list out and level out. I haven't pondered it for neckbeard-length though so there may still be some gaps, but as is it'd be 1.21 jiggawats healthier than the mess that exists now.

[shuklak]

Yes all the pixels are yours and nobody else can have them we can tell you have been playing here a long time little guy

To be sure I have absolutely no problem with cooperation. But I expect p99ers to absolutely abuse any slight advantage they may have. And that means they were bound to hold camps hostage as soon as they were able to because "it's not against the rules."

[silo32]

Does the guise camp deal with this same toxicity? Even at lvl 50 my ranger wouldn’t be able to solo that camp.

yes last night for 20 or so hours a monk was fd at the ass / sup at the #1 spot and no one would help him clear break or kill the camp.... people would come and go for hours, he just sat there fd at the keyboard waiting, I heard a group finally rolled in and got him his mask all he had to do was wait for it

profit

[nostalgiaquest]

in soviet russia, mana stones you!

[Octopath]

yes last night for 20 or so hours a monk was fd at the ass / sup at the #1 spot and no one would help him clear break or kill the camp.... people would come and go for hours, he just sat there fd at the keyboard waiting, I heard a group finally rolled in and got him his mask all he had to do was wait for it

profit

Wow I find it hard to believe that for 20 hours there was no one / any group interested in farming the belt at least. I was hoping that camp is already camped all the time for the belt alone.

[Phaezed-Reality]

i'd like 2 rubi BP's now that this bs has come to light since people are waking up/finaly getting their levels and seeing what is being done, after what happened to us. tia.

[shuklak]

Wow I find it hard to believe that for 20 hours there was no one / any group interested in farming the belt at least. I was hoping that camp is already camped all the time for the belt alone.

Probably teal.

Consider green.

[wagorf]

So nubs want a manastone to make it easier for them to get thru the game while still being a nub and not learning how to play?

nub u mad?

[Purplefluffy]

The alternative is to think, 'hey, perhaps the /List function can operate as a way for the community to come together to farm the mob as quick as is possible'. I've actually been quite surprised that people on the list have not thought 'lets all group up' over viewing each other as competitors and dragging the whole thing out. I guess that is just the dominant culture of our times and indicative of where most of the players are from.

[Jimjam]

I've quit tanking raids on my warrior because of lazy necromancers who can't or won't tank raid bosses them selves.

Sorry guys but if you want pixels you have to work for them.

[greenspectre]

nub u mad?

[aismartin]

We have a person at manstone camp atm who...
1) Refuses to help because faction hit and hogging spot on list so I cant bring real help.
2) Lets us die over 5 times.
3) Says I dont have to carry you.
4) Has been sitting all day, I was fine with it earlier since we had a lot of people.
5) Now when we need their help since only 4 of us now (with a lvl 35 puller) they say "If you cant handle camp how is that my fault?"
6) I am a 43 Cleric so not much deeps I can do without sacrificing my healing on the LVL 35 puller

[Octopath]

We have a person at manstone camp atm who...
1) Refuses to help because faction hit and hogging spot on list so I cant bring real help.
2) Lets us die over 5 times.
3) Says I dont have to carry you.
4) Has been sitting all day, I was fine with it earlier since we had a lot of people.
5) Now when we need their help since only 4 of us now (with a lvl 35 puller) they say "If you cant handle camp how is that my fault?"
6) I am a 43 Cleric so not much deeps I can do without sacrificing my healing on the LVL 35 puller

Is person #1? This situation deserves a boot off the list imo

[aismartin]

Is person #1? This situation deserves a boot off the list imo

They are number 3. We have a level 35 at spot 1 pulling, and me at spot 2 healing. The forth person is also afk but not replying.

[greenspectre]

They are number 3. We have a level 35 at spot 1 pulling, and me at spot 2 healing. The forth person is also afk but not replying.

And this is the exact situation that worries me. Somebody is on the list, obviously wants the mana stone, but refuses to help kill, and under current rules cannot be punished in any way for not assisting because he is not #1.

I really hope somebody else jumps in to help you guys. If I had 10 more levels on my shammy I would do it, even if it meant a faction hit. Toxicity like this is lame.

[BlackBellamy]

I guess that is just the dominant culture of our times and indicative of where most of the players are from.

If everyone cooperated then the /list items would flow like a river. Cooperation requires trust and a certain degree of selflessness. The people who are strongly attracted to the /list items rate low on cooperation and altruism. The /list is a honeypot for jerks. I'm not saying they're all jerks, just that there's enough to clog up the works. You can see it plainly, there's explicit posts in this and other threads where the attitude is basically go fuck yourself, I'm going to out-wait and out-aggravate you into moving up a spot, not going to carry or whatever, eat shit.

[Chocolope]

make all list items L50 to list.

Go get some xp and kill the camp your damn self.

[dajudge]

Reading about peoples lack of pixels due to cooperation and a fairly implemented system is really enjoyable.

Keep the pixel-free lube applied and tell me more stories pls.

[Solist]

I got 2 people their guises today happily, just killing the mobs for them.

Helping others costs nothing.

A third one rotted as you cant zone a level 1 in sadly.

[Phaezed-Reality]

make all list items L50 to list.

Go get some xp and kill the camp your damn self.

[Octopath]

I got 2 people their guises today happily, just killing the mobs for them.

Helping others costs nothing.

A third one rotted as you cant zone a level 1 in sadly.

You just gave me hope!

[Polycaster]

This is why AnCap doesn't work outside of the thought experiments of highly autistic people.

[DMN]

Reading about peoples lack of pixels due to cooperation and a fairly implemented system is really enjoyable.

Keep the pixel-free lube applied and tell me more stories pls.

Only people who have multiple people using their account/character getting certain legacy items is pretty much the opposite of "fair".

[Jean-Baptiste Cutting]

lol

[senna]

This is a lose-lose situation for the devs

There is no scenario where people dont sit and fucking whine on the forums. Do it this way.. do it that way.. wahhhhh he stoled my legendary poopsock because the pixel helper didnt pop up.

The way it is now is better than it was, which is how it was on blue. Remember those fucking assholes in TMO that wouldnt let anyone farm CoS and poopsocked it for months?. That could be your reality and it would be. There are retired/unemployed people who would hold these camps until they faded out.

[ehwar]

thanks Dilbo and that rando shaman with the weeb name for my guise. You guys are really sweet. I'll be over at manastone on my monk when you are ready to service me again.

[Lhord99]

This makes scout roll look fun.

[Zeboim]

/gu Ding 35!
/manastone
/guise
/RubiBP

Its the only truly fair way

[stewe]

I would really like to be able to get a CoF off of Nagafen but I can't solo him unfortunately. Are you seriously telling me that I need to join a guild or make friends or convince people to trek all the way down to his lair and poopsock him for god knows how long until I get my CoF?

See, the problem is that you are saying "my stone" even in this imaginary scenario. That shows the level of entitlement right there that a lot of players have. It's a super rare, coveted item. It's not supposed to be EASY to get. It's not supposed to be like the latest iPhone where everyone runs out to all get it.

#STOPLISTLEECHING

This is one of the most out of context quotes in this thread, i suggest ppl go read the whole post cause this guy doing the quoting is obviously a fan of adam schiff

[Horza]

This is one of the most out of context quotes in this thread, i suggest ppl go read the whole post cause this guy doing the quoting is obviously a fan of adam schiff

Are all of your posts garbage conservative tangents?

[Intensifier]

its simple if you cannot solo it dont be there.. like really why are you there.. you dont see lvl 25 soloing the AC camp later.. EVERY class at 50 can solo the camps by some means.. learn to play your class.. grab a few root nets .. ones the camp is cleared you then can clear it all NP at 50... hell with a list u can easily keep it camped and 90% of the time have it already split up nicely .. but a 35... in EQ since when does a lvl 35 kill a lvl 35 mob.... never you always kill Dark Blue or lower.. hell bring a friend to help you split at 50 then say thank you tip em some plat then continue to clear it yourself..

[Intensifier]

maybe an alternate method... because its legacy and im not lvl 50 either right now but if it was implemented 50 only can use list.. perhaps is an alright idea.. im almost 50 but then anyone on it can def solo it no more arguing.. a guy named Mannastone .. has his drop and got it at lvl 35 he didnt even have to touch the mobs... lol god please take his stuff i would love you guys but really .. all because he leeched the #1 spot refused to help.. and had the minimal lvl requirement.. and just refused to leave.. it is what it is.. but the legacy items.. just are meh the more of this ive had to deal with the more im just over those items..the enticement is removed because of those idiots doing this BS.. like i refused to go to any of these camps myself .. until i was ready to handle them .. i hit the level of where i could or felt comfortable enough to be able to handle them and was ready to enlist on the /list ...little did i know.. there was 35s everywhere hoarding the number 1 spot .. like they had the right too it...its still abuse in the mechanic .. cheating in anyway they could... its almost tempting to say go ahead and remove em .. let the lil wee wee guys get there bit of platinum.. oo or we could start over remove everyones and say nope now we will start over and now you can only camp it if you can handle it.. give it a clean slate.. you can take my item ill gladdly give it up to remove the abuse potential.... im just ranting love the game.. hate the losers .. lol bet all the 35s live at there moms still at 40 years old ... bills.. mommy pays those lol i dont have to do that im her #1 and i deserve it

[shuklak]

Their moms don't all pay their bills. That's pretty naive. I'm sure a number of them are self sufficient collecting government disability.

[Nordok]

Why not just raise the minimum level so its an almost guaranteed solo. Would cut down on competition too.

[Intensifier]

Their moms don't all pay their bills. That's pretty naive. I'm sure a number of them are self sufficient collecting government disability.

I love you lmao That was great i approve this message. I will also vote for you.

[Bardp1999]

None of the list items are that great. Soon as Kunark hits Manastone becomes pretty much obsolete outside of porting and Rubi BP becomes purely a fashion item. Jboot and Guise are really the only /List camps worth doing and even then none of it is game-changing. Buy some SoW pots and accept you will never be a Dark Elf and the List suddenly isn't a concern.

[swoligarch]

I’m so happy all I have to do is “help” kill the ph’s to not get kicked off the list. Imagining you assholes seething when I do a round of combat and fd gets me diamond hard. srsly pushing 5”. Pls submit your briefs to the supreme court on what constitutes helping with the placeholders by the end of business today.

[swoligarch]

I’m so happy all I have to do is “help” kill the ph’s to not get kicked off the list. Imagining you assholes seething when I do a round of combat and fd gets me diamond hard. srsly pushing 5”. Pls submit your briefs to the supreme court on what constitutes helping with the placeholders by the end of business today.

[swoligarch]

idkwtf is with the double post

[Modwolf]

I’m so happy all I have to do is “help” kill the ph’s to not get kicked off the list. Imagining you assholes seething when I do a round of combat and fd gets me diamond hard. srsly pushing 5”. Pls submit your briefs to the supreme court on what constitutes helping with the placeholders by the end of business today.

[Lhord99]

I’m so happy all I have to do is “help” kill the ph’s to not get kicked off the list. Imagining you assholes seething when I do a round of combat and fd gets me diamond hard. srsly pushing 5”. Pls submit your briefs to the supreme court on what constitutes helping with the placeholders by the end of business today.

[Hazek]

Its not about the practicality of killing the mob to keep it moving, its about the principle of not helping some jackass who goes there when they can't kill it themselves and expects other people to do it for them. That's why anyone who does that should be automatically kicked from the list if they (or their group) dont engage the mob within X amount of time. That away if you want the item then you either level up to solo it or get your own group. Not hold up the list while expecting others to do it for you.

And its too bad Dark Men of Odus are on Green, seem like some cool dudes.

[cd288]

Its not about the practicality of killing the mob to keep it moving, its about the principle of not helping some jackass who goes there when they can't kill it themselves and expects other people to do it for them. That's why anyone who does that should be automatically kicked from the list if they (or their group) dont engage the mob within X amount of time. That away if you want the item then you either level up to solo it or get your own group. Not hold up the list while expecting others to do it for you.

And its too bad Dark Men of Odus are on Green, seem like some cool dudes.

Yeah like I get the point that people say "well the list isn't the camp, it's loot rights". But back in the day you had to kill the mob to get loot rights and therefore you wouldn't be down there unless you could solo it or could guarantee that you could get a group to do it with you.