Lowbie Warrior Aggro + Proc Weapons

[ajdes]

What weapons (that are reasonably obtainable) are warriors using for aggro and how well do they work? A few common ones I've noticed are:

- http://wiki.project1999.com/Crookstinger (fast + poison proc)
- http://wiki.project1999.com/Gnoll_Hide_Lariat (fast + stun proc)
- http://wiki.project1999.com/Bull_Smasher (fast + good ratio)
- http://wiki.project1999.com/Dragoon_Dirk (fast + cheap / easy to get)
- https://wiki.project1999.com/Tentacle_Whip (lifetap proc)
- https://wiki.project1999.com/Obsidian_Shard (-AC + dmg proc)

What else are people using? Have you noticed some that work better than others? Mostly curious about the effectiveness of the procs.

[Grimstrike]

Obsidian Shard is where it is at for procs. Pump up your Dex with some gear to get the procs.

Another decent warrior 1hs that is easy enough to get is the Langseax
The 2hs version (Langseax of the Wolves) is really good and it is arguable that 2H DPS generates the aggro needed, the heavier the weapon, the better. Go for a big 15 weight 2H and smack everything! Damage cap bonuses at lvl10, 20, 30, 40, 50

http://wiki.project1999.com/Langseax
http://wiki.project1999.com/Langseax_of_the_Wolves
http://wiki.project1999.com/Groflah%27s_Stoutbite
http://wiki.project1999.com/Crysknife
http://wiki.project1999.com/Crystalline_Blade
http://wiki.project1999.com/Hulking_Spiked_Club
http://wiki.project1999.com/Screaming_Mace

[Barantor]

I've been experimenting with the gnoll hide lariat and the polished granite tomahawk.

The Lariat doesn't proc till 20, which is a bummer as it's damage isn't that great and feels more like a dagger.

The Polished Granite Tomahawk is procing at 10 and although it doesn't do any damage, i've found that it does help because of the damage immunity and the rate at which it procs with a decent amount of dex.

Bullsmasher is good at the sub level 10 for those races that can use it because of it's damage/delay, but I quickly replaced it for a magical weapon, which is the only thing it doesn't do (even though it has stats, which is weird to me).

I was also gifted (by a very very generous person!) an executioners axe at low level and although the proc doesn't happen till 30, the damage it puts out with double attack is fairly significant, though it is slow. If I can hit consistently with it then with kicks and taunts it works fine.

[ajdes]

The Polished Granite Tomahawk is procing at 10 and although it doesn't do any damage, i've found that it does help because of the damage immunity and the rate at which it procs with a decent amount of dex.


Does the Tomahawk actually generate hate since it is a self buff? I guess the same way a priest generates hate?


arguable that 2H DPS generates the aggro needed, the heavier the weapon, the better.


weight affects aggro?

[Barantor]

Does the Tomahawk actually generate hate since it is a self buff? I guess the same way a priest generates hate?

I had always understood this to be true, not as much aggro as damage, but about like a caster in melee range or a priest healing.

[Tethler]

Does the Tomahawk actually generate hate since it is a self buff? I guess the same way a priest generates hate?


Yes, due to the rune (dmg absorb) effect. Runes are high threat spells.

[Cen]

The tomahawk's aggro number isn't tremendous, but its better then a lot of buffs because the buff Berserker Strength buff uses 2 aggro generating buff slots. The one used for Absorb Damage is the highest threat, and is similar to a healing of the HP total. The strength buff portion is minor for aggro.

It procs often enough to be pretty neat from what I remember.

[Tethler]

The tomahawk's aggro number isn't tremendous, but its better then a lot of buffs because the buff Berserker Strength buff uses 2 aggro generating buff slots. The one used for Absorb Damage is the highest threat, and is similar to a healing of the HP total. The strength buff portion is minor for aggro.

It procs often enough to be pretty neat from what I remember.

Yeah, with my ranger, I'm constantly peeling off warriors with auto attack alone when I get procs. I actually don't even use it when im not tanking cause I don't want the threat. It isn't massive, but it is noticable.

[M.J.]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Summoned:_Dagger_of_Symbols

5/20 is pretty great for a free summoned weapon, but I'd say that miss aggro from 2hers is where its at. Fleshrippers are rotting I've been told, and I'm fairly certain some races don't start out KoS to goblins in SolA, so, if you're one of them, you could maybe loot an obsidian flamberge if someone is keeping those elementals dead.

Also I'm still not entirely sure why people are using weapons like mino axes with massive delays and no 2her damage like a wurmy... even the magical versions don't really seem worth it to me - but maybe big race strength makes them come out ahead compared to other races for actual hits? I don't really see how that works out but plenty of big race peeps I see are wielding 8dmg 1h weps with 35+ delays.

[ajdes]

I read through some of the p99 warrior guides / forum posts and one thing that still has me confused is how weapon speed factors into threat.

People seem to agree that both swings and misses add hate which would seem to imply that there is a benefit purely from using faster weapons. However other comments suggest that hate just equals dps and using the best ratio (with dmg bonus factored in) is best.

Now I realize that at higher levels the main hand damage bonus will often mean that faster weapons also do more damage, but at lower levels that is not the case. So take for example Bladed Thulian Claws (5/19) vs Jambiya (7/26). Jambiya has the better ratio but do the claws actually generate more hate because they swing more?

If misses generate hate, does weapon damage affect the amount? Or are all misses equal (regardless of weapon)?

I've been experimenting a bit but I only have access to a couple weapons, so others experience would be valuable.

[Converse]

What weapons (that are reasonably obtainable) are warriors using for aggro and how well do they work? A few common ones I've noticed are:

- http://wiki.project1999.com/Crookstinger (fast + poison proc)
- http://wiki.project1999.com/Gnoll_Hide_Lariat (fast + stun proc)
- http://wiki.project1999.com/Bull_Smasher (fast + good ratio)
- http://wiki.project1999.com/Dragoon_Dirk (fast + cheap / easy to get)
- https://wiki.project1999.com/Tentacle_Whip (lifetap proc)
- https://wiki.project1999.com/Obsidian_Shard (-AC + dmg proc)

What else are people using? Have you noticed some that work better than others? Mostly curious about the effectiveness of the procs.

Crookstingers will proc at lvl 1. I believe poison has a small threat upon application, then adds to threat with each tick.

As you arrive to the appropriate levels, I'd switch over to Obsidian and Lariat, with Lariat costing very little to purchase. With those procing a debuff+dd and stun, they should be providing a much larger amount of threat & that threat will be applied in full immediately.

Once those proc, a rogue can go ham with backstab.

[Jimjam]

I read through some of the p99 warrior guides / forum posts and one thing that still has me confused is how weapon speed factors into threat.

People seem to agree that both swings and misses add hate which would seem to imply that there is a benefit purely from using faster weapons. However other comments suggest that hate just equals dps and using the best ratio (with dmg bonus factored in) is best.

Now I realize that at higher levels the main hand damage bonus will often mean that faster weapons also do more damage, but at lower levels that is not the case. So take for example Bladed Thulian Claws (5/19) vs Jambiya (7/26). Jambiya has the better ratio but do the claws actually generate more hate because they swing more?

If misses generate hate, does weapon damage affect the amount? Or are all misses equal (regardless of weapon)?

I've been experimenting a bit but I only have access to a couple weapons, so others experience would be valuable.

It's not about the damage a swing does, more the damage it could have done. Iirc a swing does 2(?)x dmg + damage bonus in hate.

Damage bonus is determined by your level (about (level-25)/3 ). This is why at high levels fast weapons are often such good choices; dmg/delay is fairly consistent across weapons but damage bonus/delay favours speed.

[Cerate]

It's not about the damage a swing does, more the damage it could have done. Iirc a swing does 2(?)x dmg + damage bonus in hate.

Damage bonus is determined by your level (about (level-25)/3 ). This is why at high levels fast weapons are often such good choices; dmg/delay is fairly consistent across weapons but damage bonus/delay favours speed.

This is correct, but it's just (DMG + Bonus), no 2x. The 1H bonus at level 50 for melee classes is 8. Offhand gets no bonus.

Addressing adjes' example:
Bladed Thulian Claws (5/19)
5+8=13 per swing
Assuming a haste cap of 74%:
60/((19/(1.74))/10)=55 swings per minute
13*55=715 hate per minute

Jambiya (7/26)
7+8=15 per swing
60/((26/(1.74))/10)=40 swings per minute
15*40=600 hate per minute

Claws are better in the main hand.

[Hazek]

Here's what I know from my intuition and experience:

Attacking the mob first, especially a couple times before you pull will generate lots of agro. Do this with every mob if you can.

Weapons with good ratios will generate lots of agro.

A 2h will out perform 1h's with "equal ratios" because double attacks are more significant. Including bigger crit potential. Misses also "count", but maybe not as much as hits.

Procs or spells will snap agro 95% of the time and maintain it most of the time afterwards.

So if you want to have agro most of the time, get a good 2h like Axe of the Slayers, Dwarven axe from TR in CB (a decent underrated weapon), Langseax of the wolves, Bone bladed claymore (50p, great ratio but -8 agi), etc. And attack the mob a couple times before anyone else. Otherwise you can buy some crappy ratio 1h's like shards or whatever and not have agro most of the time until it procs because most people will simply out damage you, and thus, out agro you.

Also the damage bonus at level 31 is 2, which you also get with a 2h that will be hitting for 40-60's to begin with. Something to consider.

[Cain]

Or you can just use the aggro calculator and plug in your level and the weapons you want to assess (even at low levels).

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343370

It looks like I had an oversight on one part regarding haste caps, which caused invalid results when plugging in haste above the caps for a given level. It's fixed now thanks to Cerate's example making this obvious to me.

[Hazek]

Or you can just use the aggro calculator and plug in your level and the weapons you want to assess (even at low levels).

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343370

It looks like I had an oversight on one part regarding haste caps, which caused invalid results when plugging in haste above the caps for a given level. It's fixed now thanks to Cerate's example making this obvious to me.

Good list of weapons but missing some procs and its also impossible to calculate hate per minute with procs because its random even if they have different potential PPM. So if a weapon doesn't proc a single time during a fight it has zero hate per minute. Better off judging based on ratio and whether or not it procs at all, then deciding based on the quality of the proc while ignoring how much random potential agro it could generate.

So I made a different 2h warrior list for weapons just to get you to level 40+ where you can start farming the higher tier stuff. It doesn't include every "low level" weapon but just the ones that are good and practical to get. Doesn't include 1h's either for reasons explained above, not that 1h's are bad.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ssRyxWX6_XP5ufD7UORot-oTaMMVqEb7CJwnOjvNkCs/edit?usp=sharing

[bum3]

Crookstingers will proc at lvl 1. I believe poison has a small threat upon application, then adds to threat with each tick.

As you arrive to the appropriate levels, I'd switch over to Obsidian and Lariat, with Lariat costing very little to purchase. With those procing a debuff+dd and stun, they should be providing a much larger amount of threat & that threat will be applied in full immediately.

Once those proc, a rogue can go ham with backstab.

And here I thought poison procs applied the entire dmg as hate upon proc.

[ajdes]

Heres what I think ive learned or at least my current preferences.

In my weapon bag ive got:
- Bull Smasher (6/20 1HB)
- Dragoon Dirk (6/23 P)
- Polished Granite Tomahawk (6/26 1HS + Berserker Strength Proc)
- Crookstinger (4/21 P + Weak Poison Proc)
- Double Bladed Bone Axe (18/48 2HS)

Based on what other comments, what i've read, and my own anecdotal evidence, hate can be simply calculated by potential damage of equipped weapon(s) + procs. Double attack and critical strikes chances affect all weapon(s) equally so they can essentially be ignored for the purposes of hate.

Calculating Dmg Potential
Using the dual wield chance formula from, https://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Dual_Wield, at lvl 20 Bull Smasher + Dragoon Dirk should provide roughly a dmg/dly of (6/20) + ((20 + 105) / 500) * (6/23) = .365 dmg/dly. Double Bladed Bone Axe is 18/48 = .375 dmg/dly. PGT + Crookstinger = 6/26 + ((20 + 105) / 500) * (4/21) = .278 dmg/dly.

At lvl 20 the Bull Smasher / Dragoon Dirk and Double Bladed Bone Axe provide similar dps potential, but the PGT + Crookstinger lag significantly behind (~25%). With low dexterity (I have 93) PGT + Crookstinger just dont seem to proc enough to be worth the inferior dps. Using non-proc weapons, I've found that I can generally keep my threat above everyone but Rogues, Monks, or Slowers. Monks can flop, Slowers can root, but Rogues are just kind of not a good pair until evade gets added. With PGT + Crookstinger I was usually behind other classes in threat until / if I got a proc which resulted in me holding aggro for less time than just going straight for the dps.

I think the best low level strategy is to just max dps potential and forget about procs. Currently in classic the best bang for your buck seems to be in 2 handers. Langseax of the Wolves, Silvery Two Handed Axe, Blackened Iron Bastard Sword, etc.. all seem to provide a good value at maxing ones dps potential for the least amount of plat. Also you get the bonus of taking less riposte dmg with a 2 hander.

Eventually with dual wield skill increases, increased damage bonuses, and better ratio 1H proc weapons, dual wielding becomes more appealing. But, in my current level range, once you get past the lvl 20 damage cap, sinking money into a good ratio 2 hander seems like the way to go.