Why do GMs still allow item recharging

[silo32]

This was never intended 😂

It's not classic. It's an obvious exploit and trivializes The game.

Also soulfires being used by non paladin s.

Red wood wands

Reapers

Wc caps

But let's focus on more important things like. Removing pet Windows. Dot DMG text, meditate clicking till 35 and a whole list of other great QOL improvements..


But let's leave in the most broken cheat on this server.


It was removed on red why not now?

Change my mind

[Baler]

This is not the first thread about this topic.
Prior threads were moved to rnf.

[DMN]

I'm still waiting for proof that it ever happened in the classic timeframe. i didn't test all items back in the day but golem metal wands would only be set to 1 charge if you bought them from a vendor, which makes me assume all multi use items could only be recharged to 1 use.

[Man0warr]

We were definitely recharging 10-dose SoW potions and Egg-shaped Pumice (after they got removed from vendor) back then on Rallos Zek. Check out the Egg Shaped/Crystallized Pumice thread in the Bug Forums - I posted a ton of evidence of people recharging Pumice via vendor at various dates on the timeline. I also was recharging root nets on my monk for instant pulling. People weren't really recharging items like Midnight Mallets but that's because people didn't really understand aggro mechanics - raid tanks didn't really use those items for such a purpose.

There isn't much logical reason for them to code it to work differently for some items and not for all items with charges to work the same. It's actually more work on the code side to make exceptions.

It was a bug. It was eventually removed. But not in the Classic timeline.

It was specifically removed from Red because it's more of an issue in PvP than it is in PvE and causing extra CSR.

[zodium]

This was never intended 😂

It's not classic. It's an obvious exploit and trivializes The game.

Also soulfires being used by non paladin s.

Red wood wands

Reapers

Wc caps

But let's focus on more important things like. Removing pet Windows. Dot DMG text, meditate clicking till 35 and a whole list of other great QOL improvements..


But let's leave in the most broken cheat on this server.


It was removed on red why not now?

Change my mind

it's classic and without recharges there'd be insane pp inflation, seeing as EQ has virtually no other systemic mechanism for destroying pp

[Ivory]

It's classic.... get wif da program.

And it's expensive to do anyhow. I got some wands, I could use them....but holy pancakes I would be poor fast if I was going wand crazy.

[Vexenu]

it's classic and without recharges there'd be insane pp inflation, seeing as EQ has virtually no other systemic mechanism for destroying pp

This is literally the dumbest argument in favor of item recharging.

1) The total amount of pp that enters the server on a daily basis dwarfs the amount spent on recharging.

2) Inflation only affects items that no longer drop, because new items entering the economy produce a deflationary effect on that item's market price. So the inflationary pressure of newly created plat and the deflationary pressure of newly created items tend to cancel each other out, making prices relatively stable over the short and medium term.

3) Even if there was inflation it wouldn't matter, because it would affect all players who participated in the economy equally, even new players ("WTS stack of Bone chips 100pp"). The amount of plat in circulation in is completely arbitrary, all that matters in terms of pricing is the ratio of buyers to sellers.

The only defense of item recharging is that it is (unfortunately) classic as a mechanic. Its widespread abuse is obviously unclassic as hell.

[Tilien]

This is literally the dumbest argument in favor of item recharging.

1) The total amount of pp that enters the server on a daily basis dwarfs the amount spent on recharging.

2) Inflation only affects items that no longer drop, because new items entering the economy produce a deflationary effect on that item's market price. So the inflationary pressure of newly created plat and the deflationary pressure of newly created items tend to cancel each other out, making prices relatively stable over the short and medium term.

3) Even if there was inflation it wouldn't matter, because it would affect all players who participated in the economy equally, even new players ("WTS stack of Bone chips 100pp"). The amount of plat in circulation in is completely arbitrary, all that matters in terms of pricing is the ratio of buyers to sellers.

The only defense of item recharging is that it is (unfortunately) classic as a mechanic. Its widespread abuse is obviously unclassic as hell.



I mean to add on to point 2: we can see from Blue that leading up to green untwinked character could easily get mid range gear. Over time low to mid tier items lose value: Crusty armor being sold for 100pp a piece before Green opened. That means you could essentially get your tank armor that's good enough for level 40-50 content for under 1k. The reason why Blue became a twink server was not limited to the fact people twinked themselves but because of over farming even new toons were "twinked" relative to class mobs because of cheap access to decent gear.

To those worried about inflation on Green: Prices will drop. What happened to Blue will happen to Green, so don't worry.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

We were definitely recharging 10-dose SoW potions and Egg-shaped Pumice (after they got removed from vendor) back then on Rallos Zek. Check out the Egg Shaped/Crystallized Pumice thread in the Bug Forums - I posted a ton of evidence of people recharging Pumice via vendor at various dates on the timeline. I also was recharging root nets on my monk for instant pulling. People weren't really recharging items like Midnight Mallets but that's because people didn't really understand aggro mechanics - raid tanks didn't really use those items for such a purpose.

There isn't much logical reason for them to code it to work differently for some items and not for all items with charges to work the same. It's actually more work on the code side to make exceptions.

It was a bug. It was eventually removed. But not in the Classic timeline.

It was specifically removed from Red because it's more of an issue in PvP than it is in PvE and causing extra CSR.

Same thing recharging pumice on TZ as well. Til they were nerfed out of the game altogether.

There was a period of time (at least on TZ) where vendor-recharging was considered an actionable exploit as well.

[liquidki]

The only defense of item recharging is that it is (unfortunately) classic as a mechanic. Its widespread abuse is obviously unclassic as hell.

I think this is the best argument against keeping this mechanic. Are we going for a classic experience or classic mechanics? Because those are going to be 2 different things considering the average amount of player knowledge then to now.

[aaezil]

Titanium client isnt classic Yellow fte messages/“mario kart foot races” arent classic Resists arents classic /list isnt classic zone pulling all of tov to zl isnt classic rooted dragons isnt classic everyone having unlimited accounts isnt classic

Selectively pick and choose whatever classic stuff but other stuff completely ignore classic

[Izmael]

People who don't like item recharging can just NOT RECHARGE THEIR ITEMS and maybe stop the qq ?

Problem solved.

[Dolalin]

People who don't agree with boxing can just not box, problem solved.

People who don't agree with hacking can just not hack, problem solved.

Etc

Is this an American thing? Your actions affect other people around you.

[Fawqueue]

People who don't agree with boxing can just not box, problem solved.

People who don't agree with hacking can just not hack, problem solved.

Etc

Is this an American thing? Your actions affect other people around you.

It's a human thing. Being selfish and burdening others is in no way unique to us Americans.

[Izmael]

Your actions affect other people around you.

I'm trying to remember at least one time when I'd think "damn, if only he couldn't recharge his items! I could do/have this or that."

Help me out there?

[Frug]

This was never intended 😂

This isn't a game of what was intended, it's a game of what was.

- Humans were widely reported to have gotten the 5% XP boost, but hobbits got it instead.

- You weren't supposed to be able to dot/kite; THAT sort of player-friendly emergent gameplay is VERBOTEN! So they took it out.

The list goes on and on; P99 is a game to recreate all the crap of the original; except all the player-friendly bits, which have to be removed for the autist neckbeards.

[Tilien]

This isn't a game of what was intended, it's a game of what was.

- Humans were widely reported to have gotten the 5% XP boost, but hobbits got it instead.

- You weren't supposed to be able to dot/kite; THAT sort of player-friendly emergent gameplay is VERBOTEN! So they took it out.

The list goes on and on; P99 is a game to recreate all the crap of the original; except all the player-friendly bits, which have to be removed for the autist neckbeards.

Neckbeards are most likely not the ones complaining about recharging... rather the casuals who can't afford it or want to have a slightly more competitive raid scene since they can't get the recharge items they want everyone on equal (risky) ground not using them.

[derpcake2]

Move to R&F and suspend OP for making multiple threads on the same topic.

Too much clutter on forums, this would help.

[azxten]

I'm still waiting for proof that it ever happened in the classic timeframe. i didn't test all items back in the day but golem metal wands would only be set to 1 charge if you bought them from a vendor, which makes me assume all multi use items could only be recharged to 1 use.

Agreed and evidence was already provided in bug forum. I showed Allakhazam posts saying spider nets also wouldn't recharge at all. It seems the devs had actually nerfed recharging selectively for items like this that would be overpowered.

[larper99]

Neckbeards are most likely not the ones complaining about recharging... rather the casuals who can't afford it or want to have a slightly more competitive raid scene since they can't get the recharge items they want everyone on equal (risky) ground not using them.

Today is official "Neckbeard Day", the day the term was added to Urban Dictionary with the definition we use here today.

[Haynar]

Why do players keep whining about item recharging, when it was a valid mechanic for the timeline? Do you actually think its going to be changed?

Its a valid mechanic. Its not an exploit because you declare it.

If you think its a horrible exploit. Go do it. Then ban yourself as punishment. Teach us all a lesson!!!

[Ivory]

Why do players keep whining about item recharging, when it was a valid mechanic for the timeline? Do you actually think its going to be changed?

Its a valid mechanic. Its not an exploit because you declare it.

If you think its a horrible exploit. Go do it. Then ban yourself as punishment. Teach us all a lesson!!!

Dear Haynar,

You know what is pretty classic? Shenanigans!! Give the guides permission to shenanigans with me please!!

Yours truly and forever with love and pancakes - Gnomes

[SamwiseRed]

Define valid because there are classic mechanics such as afk pet leveling that existed in classic but were most likely unintended. Recharging and MQing seems like unintended mechanics as trivialize parts of this game.

Brad himself said level 1s shouldn't be running around with epics. Lvl 1 epics were "valid" for a long time here.

Funny how things go from valid mechanic to unintended mechanic to bug to exploit.



It is not a valid mechanic because you declare it.

[Vallaen]

Pulling to zone line was classic but now we have rooted dragons. Doesnt matter whats classic its whatever is prefered by admins/devs

[SamwiseRed]

Got em

[Palemoon]

Just play on red99 or future new red99, where item recharge does not exist. Makes for a more stable economy without this cloning mechanism.

[Vallaen]

Just play on red99 or future new red99, where item recharge does not exist. Makes for a more stable economy without this cloning mechanism.

but we want a population

[Palemoon]

but we want a population

When they relaunch red like they've done for blue with these green/teal servers, it will have a population.

And no item duping/recharging.

AND no /list or byzantine raid rules or waiting in line for camps, or jerks just ignoring you because they can

Theres a lot to love.

[derpcake2]

Why do players keep whining about item recharging, when it was a valid mechanic for the timeline? Do you actually think its going to be changed?

Its a valid mechanic. Its not an exploit because you declare it.

If you think its a horrible exploit. Go do it. Then ban yourself as punishment. Teach us all a lesson!!!

How about suspending people that post multiple threads on the same topic?

Crazy idea, I know.

[Dolalin]

I don't think recharging should be nerfed since it is classic, for the record.

But I am sort of sympathetic to the argument because it would create a more challenging game experience.

Call me conflicted :D

[Cen]

Item recharging isn't that problematic, except for like.. maybe 1 or 2 items. I'm more against Soulfire, a non rechargeable clickie being used by any class then any rechargeable, mainly because its way overpowered of an effect, and it also gets in the way of paladins legitimately trying to get an epic.

[chiarmi]

Why do players keep whining about item recharging, when it was a valid mechanic for the timeline? Do you actually think its going to be changed?

Its a valid mechanic. Its not an exploit because you declare it.

If you think its a horrible exploit. Go do it. Then ban yourself as punishment. Teach us all a lesson!!!

Why was it removed from live if it was working as intended? It's a bug. There may have been limited use on live, but there is no way that entire raids showed up equipped with mallets, nets, and bladestoppers. Guilds didn't bring 10 soulfires to kill stuff. Puppet strings goes from a neat toy to way OP.

Remove recharging and make soulfire equip to use, change the mechanics and make the server feel more classic.

[douglas1999]

I sure would love it if you couldn't recharge pots so people would actually buy them

[Furitor]

I sure would love it if you couldn't recharge pots so people would actually buy them

Hmm i'm pretty sure 10 doses take more money to recharge. I mean I guess if you can't find anyone to buy from or are antisocial sure.

Looks like maybe only the gate potions are less to recharge than just buy according to this: https://wiki.project1999.com/Guide_to_Recharging_Items

Also, plenty of people buy pots as far as I've experienced. It's just not a very profitable business IMO.

[Dreenk317]

Hmm i'm pretty sure 10 doses take more money to recharge. I mean I guess if you can't find anyone to buy from or are antisocial sure.

Looks like maybe only the gate potions are less to recharge than just buy according to this: https://wiki.project1999.com/Guide_to_Recharging_Items

It depends, if you are only recharging one sow pot, then yes, you've waisted moneys but if you and your friends have 30+ to recharge..... its a different story

[chiarmi]

It's a bug that's being exploited. Just because they didn't catch it early enough for our timeline doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. It's really bizarre to me that devs support this, but change other stuff.


------------------------------
October 9, 2003
------------------------------

** Interface **

- Merchants now separate items with different charges in their list.
For example, 9 dose and 10 dose potions will show up as separate items
on the merchant's list. Items with the same amount of charges will be
stacked. NOTE: This will remove the ability to "recharge" items by
selling them to a vendor and buying them back.

[bwe]

Yeah haynars post was really disappointing

[DMN]

Why do players keep whining about item recharging, when it was a valid mechanic for the timeline? Do you actually think its going to be changed?

Its a valid mechanic. Its not an exploit because you declare it.

If you think its a horrible exploit. Go do it. Then ban yourself as punishment. Teach us all a lesson!!!

*Ivandyr's hoop punches wall*

[Vexenu]

Seriously. That response is laughable given the un-classic Ivandyr's Hoop nerf. There's zero reason that nerf should be in the game while every other powerful rechargeable clicky remains in place. Recharging is either a valid mechanic or not.

[bum3]

Seen a SK quadding ogre guards with wands... i felt sick to my stomach.