Bard Help

[Mankong]

Hi! As a person who has never even reached cap, much less touched a bard how would I go about playing a bard?
Any helpful low level quests? I plan on going Human. Any gear I should go for? How would I go about making macros and the like?

[Wallicker]

Starting in Qeynos or Freeport?
Gear you will want HP/MR/AC gear next most important stat is stamina

You will either want /stopsong, /cast1 for all your songs OR just make 1-8 hotkeyed to spellgems 1-8(you’ll have to double tap)

I’d highly recommend a Splitpaw hide mask for the MR and it’s a great worn lightsource that’s cheap. You’ll want to try and get MM lute and then drums. Bard gear isn’t terribly expensive.

[Mankong]

Starting in Qeynos or Freeport?
Gear you will want HP/MR/AC gear next most important stat is stamina

You will either want /stopsong, /cast1 for all your songs OR just make 1-8 hotkeyed to spellgems 1-8(you’ll have to double tap)

I’d highly recommend a Splitpaw hide mask for the MR and it’s a great worn lightsource that’s cheap. You’ll want to try and get MM lute and then drums. Bard gear isn’t terribly expensive.

Maybe Freeport, might pick a baddy religion so I can quest in Neriak

[Yoite]

human agnostic bards are not kos to neriak guards (warrior guild), no need to be evil unless you wanna

[Wallicker]

And at lvl 11 you get the most powerful faction boost in the game, song adds +600 faction until you zone, camp, LD, die OR use the song on a new mob that’s on a different faction I can vendor in oggok as a woodelf with it without sneaking

[Cen]

As a bard go veeshan. Your the only class in the game who can and its just like being agnostic but cooler? :p

But yeah bards only need tank stats.
Also bards have insane dps and group healing but people don't realize it.

[Hazek]

Start in Kelethin, farm mobs till lvl 4 or 5, especially the bee's and skellies. Save bone chips and vendor the venom sacs (3g each) and rusty weapons until you can buy bags. Bone chip quest in Felwithe is great exp https://wiki.project1999.com/Bone_Chips_Felwithe. And bag vendors are usually in the class huts. Bags are 5g each. Buy your songs especially the dot and heal, and a lute and drum. Drum enhances selos and lute enhances heal when you have it equipped. But use a weapon to melee, and instrument during downtime. Hold down left mouse over your primary weapon slot and drag it on your hotbar. Do the same for the secondary slot and some inventory slots. That's so you can switch instruments. Its a bit tricky but you'll get faster with practice, and definitely worth. The heal song is amazing with a lute. At level 5 (maybe 4), head to orc hill and kill any blues you can, or group. Around level 6 try to kill stuff in CB or as soon as possible because of the ZEM bonus (zone experience modifier). It can be rough until you get your heal and learn to twist though. But after that its good. Try to get a nice weapon soon as you can, splintered club has a good ratio, and "warhammer" (6p), and there's a 15 plat 1hb at the "smithy hut" near warrior guild or whatever, I forget.

Get 8 bags soon as you can and also fill your bank with them and start saving every CB belt you can get, and eventually lego shoulder pads. Stock up your bank until its 100% full, should be around lvl 9 or 10. Then make one trip with all those bags, no food or anything to Kaladim and turn them in. You should be lvl 11 or so after that. Also loot everything you can find in CB and vendor it, including from rotting corpses that other people kill. The lego wrists vendor for 3g, and the small leather can go for up to 8g. It adds up and well worth it, even the cloth pieces. After that just repeat and try and get into groups, starting with wall / TM (taskmaster) then TR (throne room) around lvl 13. In the meantime just kill blues wherever you can.

Learn to twist by just casting another song as soon as one finishes. You should keep up at least 4 songs, your dot, heal, lvl 1 buff and the haste one (Jonathans whatever). Prioritize the heal and Jonathans but remember the rotation. The instrument modifier works by whatever you have equipped when the song ends.

Stats are opinion but I prefer CHA because it reduces song failures and especially helps with lull at later levels. And a failed lull can be a wipe. Sta is nice but overrated. Str isn't bad either since you'll be meleeing. Pick whatever you want. For gear try to get MM (mistmoore) drums eventually and a gypsy lute (also drops in MM). And you can buy banded or bronze if you want usually 1pp per ac. Spending plat on gear is worth it because you'll make alot more plat later and having gear will help you level much easier.

And since there's only 6 action slots (cancer) you're forced to either use that for stopsong macros or double tap and use those slots for instruments (you'll need all 6). I understand and agree with keeping things classic but having only 6 slots (especially since action binds don't work) and having to double tap is beyond stupid so I made a script that allows you to single tap so you can use those slots for instruments. You can get it here with a readme on how to use

edited to remove link

[Swish]

I understand and agree with keeping things classic but having only 6 slots (especially since action binds don't work) and having to double tap is beyond stupid so I made a script that allows you to single tap so you can use those slots for instruments. You can get it here with a readme on how to use:

LINK

Its not technically "allowed" but its not a hack either. And all it does is make a bards life viable.

How is that classic? Or "not a hack"? Scripting is okay with the staff? It's a dangerous path Hazek.

[Mankong]

Thank you all for your help! I’m excited to give the class a small try tonight lmao. Quick question- Since I’m kinda free to go loads of places, is there any place in particular that I CAN’T go where an Evil deity could? Also I am kinda sad Prexus bards can’t wear the steel silk armor.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

As a bard go veeshan. Your the only class in the game who can and its just like being agnostic but cooler? :p

But yeah bards only need tank stats.
Also bards have insane dps and group healing but people don't realize it.

Especially w no Clarity in-game yet Bard regensong w/ lute in incredibly useful for reducing group downtime

And yea you'll wanna invest in Banded and/or Bronze as Bard (ull be getting hit alot while pulling and on mez breaks)

[Hazek]

How is that classic? Or "not a hack"? Scripting is okay with the staff? It's a dangerous path Hazek.

I hear you Swish. But there's no good reason to force double tapping. You might as well make it so you have to press it 4 times for each ability or any other irrational number besides once. Its why the first thing ever bard does is create stopsong macros and it something that should have been fixed since the beginning (or let us have a normal UI). But you can't with only 6 slots since you need that to switch instruments unless you want a huge inventory box cluttering your screen, which does nothing to enhance the "classic experience". Not to mention having no room for other macros like pulling, assist, etc. Sometimes limitations can be good for the game but in this case it makes it terrible to play a bard without it. And yes, macros are 100% different than a hack. That's why i've used it in multiple games and never had a problem. Literally never gotten banned. So if they wanna ban specifically for this then that's fine, but I think that would be silly and I already uninstalled anyway because my two accounts were suspended for petty unjust reasons. And the "Iron fist" mentality can be practical but not for everything. Judgement should always be used. So take it or leave it and do what you will. But it sure makes playing a bard much more enjoyable without any negative effects because all it does is let you single tap so you can use those slots for instruments.

Also forgot to mention that stopsong has to be bound to 0

[SenoraRaton]

I don't keep my inventory open at all....
I have 4 hot bars macroed to Shift W/A/S/D and I swap pages as needed
Page 1 - Main Twist
Page 2 - Pull
Page 3 - Weapon Swaps
Page 4 - Charm setup

I move with WASD, so I just hotkey swap to the page I need when I need it. No inventory, all shortcuts except weapon swapping which I have to do manually.

[Hazek]

I don't keep my inventory open at all....
I have 4 hot bars macroed to Shift W/A/S/D and I swap pages as needed
Page 1 - Main Twist
Page 2 - Pull
Page 3 - Weapon Swaps
Page 4 - Charm setup

I move with WASD, so I just hotkey swap to the page I need when I need it. No inventory, all shortcuts except weapon swapping which I have to do manually.

Something doesn't add up like not being able to move while you're pressing those hotkeys and i'd like to see a video of you doing this for a few minutes if you could upload one. And all of that just to single tap songs.

A better solution is if the devs just give us a normal UI with enough action slots or make stopsong inherent in the code. Or just allow / use a script.

I remember playing a 50+ bard and twisting + switching instruments + charming + mezzing + meleeing with a normal UI and stopsong and that was so much micro already that it would be impossible with switching pages.
But if you can play a bard to its full potential while doing what you're saying and show us a video of it then i'll sincerely congratulate you.

And even the idea of forcing players to switch pages instead of just giving us extra action slots is silly.

[SenoraRaton]

This ENTIRE server is silly. I didn't write the rules, or make the system I just work within the confines I have been given. I don't have Fraps to show you that I'm a competent bard with these confines, but I guarantee you that many other people are playing bards without your "scripts" that are even more competent than me.

Its pretty clear that you expect something different from this server than I do. I expect a classic EQ experience, and the Devs seek to provide that. You have a perception of "perfect bard play" that you want to recreate. I honestly don't agree with your implementation whether its legal or not, because it forces players to utilize outside influences to enhance game play, which is not classic.

[astuce999]

I don't have /stopsong macros. I ALT + Double Tap for songs 4-8. I use the keypad for movement and not WASD. I pretty much only use the mouse to instrument twist.

I always likened barding to playing the piano IRL. A two-handed non-stop effort that can leave you crippled if you don't do the right warm-up exercises.

I like double-tapping. I find it gives the class 'tempo'. It keeps you alert and concentrated when you have to have different reactions to missed notes/stuns than your "normal" twist (not sure i'm explaining this right).

cheers,

Astuce

[Hazek]

This ENTIRE server is silly. I didn't write the rules, or make the system I just work within the confines I have been given. I don't have Fraps to show you that I'm a competent bard with these confines, but I guarantee you that many other people are playing bards without your "scripts" that are even more competent than me.

Its pretty clear that you expect something different from this server than I do. I expect a classic EQ experience, and the Devs seek to provide that. You have a perception of "perfect bard play" that you want to recreate. I honestly don't agree with your implementation whether its legal or not, because it forces players to utilize outside influences to enhance game play, which is not classic.

"I don't need logical fixes for obvious game flaws because I can twist two songs and equip my lute during downtime and that's classic! I mean 5 songs while managing a pet, instruments, mezzes, group macros, movement, and meleeing. But I can't prove it because i've never heard of OBS." yeahokay.

I strongly advocate "keeping things classic" but that can be taken too far just like making changes. And that's why fixing things with good judgement is best instead of either of those extremes. But they're just too afraid of offending the overzealous classic cult and the slippery slope that usually results from the inability to see the limits.

And in this case, allowing a standard UI with extra action slots or single tapping songs by any means is a reasonable and beneficial fix with zero negative impact on the "classic experience."

[Hazek]

I don't have /stopsong macros. I ALT + Double Tap for songs 4-8. I use the keypad for movement and not WASD. I pretty much only use the mouse to instrument twist.

I always likened barding to playing the piano IRL. A two-handed non-stop effort that can leave you crippled if you don't do the right warm-up exercises.

I like double-tapping. I find it gives the class 'tempo'. It keeps you alert and concentrated when you have to have different reactions to missed notes/stuns than your "normal" twist (not sure i'm explaining this right).

cheers,

Astuce

You could still double tap but I think you'll feel differently once you hit 60. I love fast paced action games with lots of APM but double tapping is just annoying and pointless from a game design perspective.

Either way i'm not even playing anymore and I was mostly just sharing it if anyone wanted to use. So do whatever you want.

And yeah I love the rhythmic concept of a bard. And especially strafing with selos.

[Videri]

Hey folks, it's not just a choice between double-tapping songs and macros. You can forego macros and instead of double-tapping 22, quick-tap 12. One then two, with a rolling motion. Hitting 1 turns off your current song, hitting 2 turns on song 2. Then 23 to turn off current song and turn on song 3...and so on.

[ir0nfist]

I would suggest having young wrists and hands to play a bard. If you don't have those, acquiring them from someone else may be a problem depending on how badass you are.

[Legidias]

Ya'll are weird. Change hotkeys to F keys. Use 1-8 for spells. You don't need to have some weird hotbar setup.

Also, Hazek is full of crap, don't listen to him. He advocates ninja looting and thinks (incorrectly) that CHA helps with fizzles (they don't).

You only need 3 real hotkeys as bard, for bag + MH/secondary to swap.

Stopsong macro is ass and any decent bard shouldn't use it. It wastes valuable time in twisting and your 4/5th song will always fall off if you use macro (as compared to double tap, or ever better, roll twisting).

If you tap kite and not strafe kite, your wrists are safe too.

[Hazek]

Ya'll are weird. Change hotkeys to F keys. Use 1-8 for spells. You don't need to have some weird hotbar setup.

Also, Hazek is full of crap, don't listen to him. He advocates ninja looting and thinks (incorrectly) that CHA helps with fizzles (they don't).

You only need 3 real hotkeys as bard, for bag + MH/secondary to swap.

Stopsong macro is ass and any decent bard shouldn't use it. It wastes valuable time in twisting and your 4/5th song will always fall off if you use macro (as compared to double tap, or ever better, roll twisting).

If you tap kite and not strafe kite, your wrists are safe too.

1. Lol using the "F" keys is just as dumb as taking your hand off the mouse to use the Home key as a bind.

2. Looting from a corpse that's gone public isn't ninja looting, that's the whole point of the timer to begin with. And the tooltip when creating a bard says that CHA affects missed notes. Its also besides the fact that it helps with lull, mez and charm.

3. That's action slots, not hotkeys. What do you mean "bag". You equip your bag or something lol wtf? And you need all 6 slots to use every instrument.

4. You're confusing stopsong with melody. /stopsong is put in macros so you can press the ability once instead of twice and does nothing but aid in twisting since its one less keystroke.


https://i.imgur.com/bisGTNg.png

[lowner411]

I may be weird, but I put the spell slots to the number pad and it makes twisting very easy--either move with the left hand and twist with the right, or twist with the left and mouse with the right, when switching instruments.

Also, I put a tailored bag in my 8th inventory slot, and keep that open next to my primary and secondary weapon spots I moved to my action bar. That way, it only takes on inventory slot. I also put that inventory slot in the action bar, so I can open that bag with a key tap.

[Hazek]

I may be weird, but I put the spell slots to the number pad and it makes twisting very easy--either move with the left hand and twist with the right, or twist with the left and mouse with the right, when switching instruments.

Also, I put a tailored bag in my 8th inventory slot, and keep that open next to my primary and secondary weapon spots I moved to my action bar. That way, it only takes on inventory slot. I also put that inventory slot in the action bar, so I can open that bag with a key tap.

A lack of binds is not the issue because I use 4, e, r, f and shift + 4, e, r, and f for my gems. The issue is that you can't use /stopsong without taking up all 6 action slots that would otherwise be used for switching instruments or other macros. And because there's no rational reason to have to double tap to begin with. Its just bad game design along with a 6 slot limit.

[Legidias]

1. Lol using the "F" keys is just as dumb as taking your hand off the mouse to use the Home key as a bind.

2. Looting from a corpse that's gone public isn't ninja looting, that's the whole point of the timer to begin with. And the tooltip when creating a bard says that CHA affects missed notes. Its also besides the fact that it helps with lull, mez and charm.

3. That's action slots, not hotkeys. What do you mean "bag". You equip your bag or something lol wtf? And you need all 6 slots to use every instrument.

4. You're confusing stopsong with melody. /stopsong is put in macros so you can press the ability once instead of twice and does nothing but aid in twisting since its one less keystroke.


And again, full of shit and no idea what he's talking about.

1. F keys are for hotbar items, like sit or sense heading or w/e. You really only ever need to click sit or assist.

2. That's ninja looting. You didn't kill it, you don't loot it. There's no confusion, and its backed by staff. Only dex marginally helps with missed notes, CHA does not. CHA doesn't help bard mez or charm in the least bit. It ONLY helps on critical lull resists and vendor prices.

3. The fuck you talking about. Action bar (actions window) is the one with specific social / ability / combat / macro. Hotbar is the 6 key window you can change out buttons on. If you don't even know you can put bags and item slots on the hotbar, then what the fuck are you doing trying to even give (bad) advice. Again, you only need 3 slots for bag (with instruments / weapons) + MH/OH.

4. No, I am not. /stopsong macro in the macro wastes close to a full second in a full 4 song twist. You cannot hold up 5 songs with it and even the fourth will fall off often. It does nothing but hurt you in the long run twisting. Rolling keys eliminates that time waste from macro. Plus you don't need to take up valuable hotbar space. And again, he advocate using third part software to simulate keystrokes, which is, again, against the rules.



Am not sure at this point if you are trolling or legitimately cannot bard.

[larper99]

Ok, I find this discussion interesting (minus the hate) since I have a bard on green.

I agree that creating a macro for each song with a /stopsong does eat up the hotkey bar. Hate that, and having to have a page for each purpose (grouping, vs soloing, vs pulling). I don't use /stopsong to create a melody because the missed notes can kill you, but I do use it to avoid the double taps. But, if you are correct that it uses up time, I am interested in the exact mechanics of it. I can twist 5 songs using /stopsong macros, but the 5th is close to timing out most of the time. I would love to know the exact mechanics of /stopsong to see proof that it uses up time, so that I can get my hot bar back to doing other things.

Please keep it civil and informative.

[larper99]

Also, re "ninja looting". Here is the wiki page that describes the various looting "terms." Ninja's Guide to Looting (http://wiki.project1999.com/Ninja%27s_Guide_to_Looting). I never considered looting a public corpse, with no one obvious around that it might belong to, as "ninja looting". If I am wrong, well, I hope I am not. I just like cleaning up the trash. The OCD in me, I guess.

[Hazek]

And again, full of shit and no idea what he's talking about.

1. F keys are for hotbar items, like sit or sense heading or w/e. You really only ever need to click sit or assist.

2. That's ninja looting. You didn't kill it, you don't loot it. There's no confusion, and its backed by staff. Only dex marginally helps with missed notes, CHA does not. CHA doesn't help bard mez or charm in the least bit. It ONLY helps on critical lull resists and vendor prices.

3. The fuck you talking about. Action bar (actions window) is the one with specific social / ability / combat / macro. Hotbar is the 6 key window you can change out buttons on. If you don't even know you can put bags and item slots on the hotbar, then what the fuck are you doing trying to even give (bad) advice. Again, you only need 3 slots for bag (with instruments / weapons) + MH/OH.

4. No, I am not. /stopsong macro in the macro wastes close to a full second in a full 4 song twist. You cannot hold up 5 songs with it and even the fourth will fall off often. It does nothing but hurt you in the long run twisting. Rolling keys eliminates that time waste from macro. Plus you don't need to take up valuable hotbar space. And again, he advocate using third part software to simulate keystrokes, which is, again, against the rules.



Am not sure at this point if you are trolling or legitimately cannot bard.

1. Clicking is for noobs and even my sit is bound to something. And the F keys are still terrible because of the reach distance. Hence the Home key example.

2. The whole point of a timer on a corpse is so that when its public anyone can loot it. Read the tooltip for CHA in game when you create a bard. And its still a useful stat regardless.

3. You said HOT KEY not hotbar. Read your own words dumbass. And you need 6 slots total, MH, OH, drum, lute, horn plus an open slot to swap them.

4. YOU HAVE TO STOP THE SONG TO CAST THE NEXT ONE REGARDLESS. All /stopsong does is do that faster than manually pressing twice. So yes you can twist 5 songs and its the same as stopping it with a keystroke.

5. I played a bard till 55+ and made multiple in depth guides including how to swarm kite and fear kite while twisting and switching instruments. You're an utter noob with a single digit IQ. And that's fine, but don't make it worse by talking shit when you're wrong.

[Legidias]

The comes from the fact that not only is he spreading bad and false info, he is spreading malicious info that can get you suspended / banned. (Wiki is not and has never been an official source of information. Only ever follow specific rules as stated by staff or on P99 official site).

"4. You may not Ninja Loot.
Ninja looting defined is when a player, disregarding the players or player who killed a mob, loots an item that is generally regarded as significant or valuable from the mob they did not kill. This is strictly prohibited and will result in removal of the item(s) and any appropriate disciplinary action."

The 'significant value' portion is where people get hung up on, but even before that statement, it already says to not loot other people's stuff.

"5. You may not use third-party programs on Project 1999... This includes programmable keyboards or other devices that creates multiple inputs for a single keystroke or automated task."

So, no, don't make a script that automates keypresses.


You can test out the macro thing yourself. Make one with 4 lines of playing and stop song. Watch the pause between each song. Then try the rolling method. The only caveat is that if you have bad latency to server, neither will really help you.


Edit for newly posted item above me:

Can confirm he's just trolling now. Wont bother to really respond anymore. Follow his bad advice at your own risk.

[larper99]

The comes from the fact that not only is he spreading bad and false info, he is spreading malicious info that can get you suspended / banned. (Wiki is not and has never been an official source of information. Only ever follow specific rules as stated by staff or on P99 official site).

"4. You may not Ninja Loot.
Ninja looting defined is when a player, disregarding the players or player who killed a mob, loots an item that is generally regarded as significant or valuable from the mob they did not kill. This is strictly prohibited and will result in removal of the item(s) and any appropriate disciplinary action."

The 'significant value' portion is where people get hung up on, but even before that statement, it already says to not loot other people's stuff.

"5. You may not use third-party programs on Project 1999... This includes programmable keyboards or other devices that creates multiple inputs for a single keystroke or automated task."

So, no, don't make a script that automates keypresses.


You can test out the macro thing yourself. Make one with 4 lines of playing and stop song. Watch the pause between each song. Then try the rolling method. The only caveat is that if you have bad latency to server, neither will really help you.


Edit for newly posted item above me:

Can confirm he's just trolling now. Wont bother to really respond anymore. Follow his bad advice at your own risk.

Well, re looting, for example, I see bears and wolves being killed in EP, and people purposely leave the "junk" behind. Hell, I leave spider legs, fungus, and chunks of meat behind. But some people leave ruined pelts and X meat behind. Hell, that's tailoring and baking stuff to me.

Anyway, back to the macros, I never put more than one /stopsong /cast X in a macro. I always thought that to put more in there you had to use /pause, and that can kill you since a missed note will still /pause and it locks out your hotkeys. I didn't think /stopsong /cast 1 /stopsong /cast 2 would work since it would seem to me that the second /stopsong would immediately cancel the casting of the first song, just like when you hit two hotkeys in rapid sequence. The first cast is immediately terminated and the second one starts.

[Hazek]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Ninja%27s_Guide_to_Looting "
"Scavenger looting is when you loot any corpse you find. A lot of people tend to get upset at this, but them I say this: 2 minutes. That's right, TWO MINUTES! From the time you make the killing blow it takes two minutes before that corpse is lootable by anyone other than the killer or someone else in the killer's party. If you are dumb enough to let a corpse drop and not loot it within the time allowed, then it's YOUR TOUGH LUCK!"

http://wiki.project1999.com/Bard
"Charisma affects lull, mesmerize, and charm abilities. However, all songs are on fixed duration (unless it breaks early), meaning duration can never increase past the song's tick-limit. Kelin's Lugubrious Lament (lull) is a fantastic pulling tool, and charm will also be frequently used by a skilled Bard. It is recommended to put at least some of your starting points in CHA." And the tooltip in game says it affects missed notes.

And he makes no sense talking about some ambiguous "rolling method" whatever the hell that even means. There's literally only one method to twist and that's to stop the song and cast the next one. And the only way to do that is with /stopsong or pressing two keystrokes. Neither of which prevent 5 songs unless you're slow with your keystrokes.

[Legidias]

stopsong will immediately stop your singing of a current song, but there's server lag in between the first and second lines of the macro, and over 4-5 songs worth, it adds up.

[larper99]

Yes, I could see the server lag being an issue, if the /stopsong has to do a full round trip between client and server before the next line of a macro. I was hoping there was some client-side optimization going on. If the server is involved, there might be a delay. But... the same delay should be involved with a double click. TANSTAAFL. So, the question is, is a human being doing a double click faster than a 20 year old piece of software processing a piece of text. I think I have to put my money on the software.

Like I said, with each song hotbarred with a single /stopsong /cast X, I can twist 5 if I am in good form. But, I hate having to use up the hotbar when the spell gems should be available via hotkey. I might have to look at remapping all my hotkeys, say 1-6 for hotbar, and QWERTYUI for spells/songs (I'm left handed). Gotta see what all those are currently bound to (like I for inventory). If I could get both hands fully involved so that barding is like typing, I could really shine, since I have been typing for a living for 35 years.

[Hazek]

Yes, I could see the server lag being an issue, if the /stopsong has to do a full round trip between client and server before the next line of a macro. I was hoping there was some client-side optimization going on. If the server is involved, there might be a delay. But... the same delay should be involved with a double click. TANSTAAFL. So, the question is, is a human being doing a double click faster than a 20 year old piece of software processing a piece of text. I think I have to put my money on the software.

Like I said, with each song hotbarred with a single /stopsong /cast X, I can twist 5 if I am in good form. But, I hate having to use up the hotbar when the spell gems should be available via hotkey. I might have to look at remapping all my hotkeys, say 1-6 for hotbar, and QWERTYUI for spells/songs (I'm left handed). Gotta see what all those are currently bound to (like I for inventory). If I could get both hands fully involved so that barding is like typing, I could really shine, since I have been typing for a living for 35 years.

Exactly. Two manual keystrokes takes just as long as running a macro, if not longer. And having to use the 6 hotbar slots (which still doesn't satisfy all 8 gems) just to fix a faulty mechanic that everyone changes to begin with doesn't make sense. And "keeping it classic" is a bad excuse. Even though I agree with keeping things as original as possible, but to an extent.

[Llandris]

And since there's only 6 action slots (cancer) you're forced to either use that for stopsong macros or double tap and use those slots for instruments (you'll need all 6). I understand and agree with keeping things classic but having only 6 slots (especially since action binds don't work) and having to double tap is beyond stupid so I made a script that allows you to single tap so you can use those slots for instruments. You can get it here with a readme on how to use: Its not technically "allowed" but its not a hack either. And all it does is make a bards life viable.

This is 100% against the rules and you will be banned for it if we catch you. Thanks for admitting it though, makes my job easier.

[larper99]

Exactly. Two manual keystrokes takes just as long as running a macro, if not longer. And having to use the 6 hotbar slots (which still doesn't satisfy all 8 gems) just to fix a faulty mechanic that everyone changes to begin with doesn't make sense. And "keeping it classic" is a bad excuse. Even though I agree with keeping things as original as possible, but to an extent.

Well, I don't want to argue the "Classic vs Efficient" thing. The UI is what it is, so how to use it as best as possible. I am now leaning toward getting rid of song macros to free up the hotbar, but only so long as I am still as efficient at twisting. You have to have a different melody for groups vs solo vs pulling (it seems to me at least), so I could just as easily type a different "word" as I can type a different sequence of macros. It's just the double click is the thing holding me back. But, getting the hotbar back is really important to me, especially if I am going to start switching instruments at higher levels.

[korzax]

This is 100% against the rules and you will be banned for it if we catch you. Thanks for admitting it though, makes my job easier.

Mic drop

[Hazek]

This is 100% against the rules and you will be banned for it if we catch you. Thanks for admitting it though, makes my job easier.

Yeah and I openly talk about using it for multiple reasons such as:

- Banning people for that would be dumb and petty since all it does is fix a bad mechanic that everyone fixes with macros and shouldn't exist to begin with.
- It would also demonstrate how unreasonable and irrational you are.
- Playing a bard without it is cancer.
- I don't need Everquest in my life and getting banned would be a favor since I only play cause its kinda fun and addicting but would be better off without it.
- I already uninstalled anyway.
- If I really cared then I would just keep using it without mentioning it and nothing would happen since its a macro and not a hack and you would never even know. Just like in all the other games i've used scripts in.

But yea go for it Stalin.

[korzax]

Can I have your stuff?

[larper99]

and you would never even know.

Well, if the client stream includes keyboard capture for debugging purposes, it would be very detectable on the server side.

I don't want to get anyone banned, or solve the "EQ UI SUCKS" arguments. I just wanted real input on bard questions.

[Hazek]

Mic drop

Don't drop expensive microphones.

Well, if the client stream includes keyboard capture for debugging purposes, it would be very detectable on the server side.

I don't want to get anyone banned, or solve the "EQ UI SUCKS" arguments. I just wanted real input on bard questions.

Detectable yes, but practically speaking they would never know. And that's besides the fact that all it does is allow you to single tap songs without wasting action slots Lol.

If they're already making non-classic changes like linking items then why isn't this one of them? The first thing bards do is create stopsong macros but that's only fine if you have three sets of hotbars.

[Legidias]

As said before, you really shouldnt listen to someone thats giving you advice that will get you banned, as a GM (in thread) has just stated.

[Hazek]

As said before, you really shouldnt listen to someone thats giving you advice that will get you banned, as a GM (in thread) has just stated.

They won't know you're using it. Even though you could get banned. And that's only one part of what I said. The rest is good advice. And everything you said is stupid and wrong as already proven.

[Haynar]

They won't know you're using it. Even though you could get banned. And that's only one part of what I said. The rest is good advice. And everything you said is stupid and wrong as already proven.

You are giving bad advice. Please stop.

[Wallicker]

I use /stopsong , /cast macros and it works great for me. Do whatever Works best for YOU. I have no issues swapping instruments mezzing multiple targets twisting songs and charm killing using /stopsong. If you’d rather double tap or roll if it works for you then do that.

[LemmingVR]

People keep saying you only have 6 hotbar slots - you know you can switch pages with hotkeys as well, right?

[Hazek]

You are giving bad advice. Please stop.

The stuff I said about buying bags early, saving CB belts, vendoring venom sacs, putting some points in CHA, etc, is all good advice.

And the fact is that there is nothing wrong with using a script to single tap songs, besides according to the irrational iron fist. Because its not the same as using AHK to afk farm for example. So good luck with your servers but I hope you'll reflect and be more reasonable in the future for your own sake.

Peace

[Haynar]

And the fact is that there is nothing wrong with using a script to single tap songs, besides according to the irrational iron fist. Because its not the same as using AHK to afk farm for example. So good luck with your servers but I hope you'll reflect and be more reasonable in the future for your own sake.

Peace
It does not matter how much you think it impacts or compares to running macros. You don’t get to decide which macro use is acceptable or not. Using macro type scripts to automate functions, gives an unfair advantage. It is also against the rules.

[Siege]

Hi! As a person who has never even reached cap, much less touched a bard how would I go about playing a bard?
Any helpful low level quests? I plan on going Human. Any gear I should go for? How would I go about making macros and the like?

I'm going to give you some advice that will cause most people on this forum to tear their hair out: Put your starting points into Strength. Do it not for the melee damage boost (Bard melee is underrated, though), but for the ability to carry more than 2 pieces of loot while wearing plate, before you have access to expensive weight-reducing bags.

Most seasoned players will tell you to pump Stamina, but Bards have a mediocre Stamina-to-HP coefficient. Other will tell you to pump Dexterity or Charisma, but I'm not convinced that those stats do what they're supposed to do on this server. If they do, the effect wasn't pronounced enough for me to notice on my max-level Bard. Song fizzles and Lull/Mes/Charm resists were never something I considered to be a problem on my Bard, even when going full retard in melee gear. It's not like a Bard has to worry about using mana for recasts.

[Hazek]

It does not matter how much you think it impacts or compares to running macros. You don’t get to decide which macro use is acceptable or not. Using macro type scripts to automate functions, gives an unfair advantage. It is also against the rules.

Well I get to decide if I didn't say anything. I just mentioned it cause I was hoping you'd be reasonable. But I should have known from my experience that's usually not the case. Either way i'm done with it. You're the dev so you can rule with an iron fist if you want, I just don't think its good for you or the players. But who cares about my opinion eh. No hard feelings, see ya.

[larper99]

People keep saying you only have 6 hotbar slots - you know you can switch pages with hotkeys as well, right?

yes, but the problem becomes that you still need to have several hotbar slots setup for songs leaving little to no room for others, no matter which page you are on.

The problem is, other casters get to use their spell gems without resorting to macros, leaving the hotbar available for other things. Bards, having to double click to achieve twisting, resort to using the hotbar as a surrogate for their spell gems. Since we twist 5 or more songs while in combat, that leaves little room for instrument swapping, assist macros, melee hotkey, having Selo available at all times, etc. So, bards lose out on a whole "hot bar" (the spell gems) that other casters get to use as designed.

So, the question is, is /stopsong worth the loss of the hotbar, or does a bard have to become a maestro in the UI, constantly switching hotbars WHILE twisting. Or, does the bard resort to "outside the box" solutions such as scripting, regardless of whether it is "against the rules" or not.

The UI design, even with expanded 8 button hotbars, seems to indicate that twisting was never intended. Later solutions to bring the bard up to a more even playing field with things like "melody" are not classic and not supported on green or any p99 server if I am correct.

So the bard, as is currently expected to be played, is handicapped out of the box. But, I find that endearing and a challenge. Others may not. If you note, it was recently pointed out that during the beta (or early release) of EQ in 1999, it was noticed that bards and enchanters were the least populous class. Whether for lack of understanding their utility, or for difficulty of using the UI, it is unknown. But the way we expect bards to be used today, they are a challenge. But I find that a positive. I get to discover the solutions, and discuss the best ways and alternatives (while staying in the agreed upon rules) to deal with those challenges.

What I really miss out with the bard, is that since I am constantly typing during combat and even during recovery, I don't get to banter in /gs. Makes it a bit harder to socialize within the game. For that, I would make a recovery melody macro, to let me take a break while still twisting heals and regen. But, since everyone chain pulls now....

/sigh

[Hazek]

yes, but the problem becomes that you still need to have several hotbar slots setup for songs leaving little to no room for others, no matter which page you are on.

The problem is, other casters get to use their spell gems without resorting to macros, leaving the hotbar available for other things. Bards, having to double click to achieve twisting, resort to using the hotbar as a surrogate for their spell gems. Since we twist 5 or more songs while in combat, that leaves little room for instrument swapping, assist macros, melee hotkey, having Selo available at all times, etc. So, bards lose out on a whole "hot bar" (the spell gems) that other casters get to use as designed.

So, the question is, is /stopsong worth the loss of the hotbar, or does a bard have to become a maestro in the UI, constantly switching hotbars WHILE twisting. Or, does the bard resort to "outside the box" solutions such as scripting, regardless of whether it is "against the rules" or not.

The UI design, even with expanded 8 button hotbars, seems to indicate that twisting was never intended. Later solutions to bring the bard up to a more even playing field with things like "melody" are not classic and not supported on green or any p99 server if I am correct.

So the bard, as is currently expected to be played, is handicapped out of the box. But, I find that endearing and a challenge. Others may not. If you note, it was recently pointed out that during the beta (or early release) of EQ in 1999, it was noticed that bards and enchanters were the least populous class. Whether for lack of understanding their utility, or for difficulty of using the UI, it is unknown. But the way we expect bards to be used today, they are a challenge. But I find that a positive. I get to discover the solutions, and discuss the best ways and alternatives (while staying in the agreed upon rules) to deal with those challenges.

What I really miss out with the bard, is that since I am constantly typing during combat and even during recovery, I don't get to banter in /gs. Makes it a bit harder to socialize within the game. For that, I would make a recovery melody macro, to let me take a break while still twisting heals and regen. But, since everyone chain pulls now....

/sigh

Thank God there's someone with some sense. Its refreshing. And having to press the key twice doesn't make bards harder at all, it's just pointless and annoying. Its a mechanic that should have been fixed since 1999 and that stopsong macros are used to remedy. All it does is make you waste your action slots or deal with having to double tap. You might as well make every other class have to press their abilities twice too.

So I understand not wanting people to use scripts for farming or something; or not wanting to pass the threshold of allowance and judging them individually because its easier to just blanket ban (if you could even detect it). But in this case its not even an "unfair advantage" because all it does is fix a bad mechanic that players normally do anyway when they have enough slots. And its a problem because you only have 6 unless you change pages. So why not just let players use a normal UI, change the mechanic in the code so it automatically casts stopsong when you use a new gem like I originally suggested, or as a last resort, allow a specific script. Especially since you've already made changes like item linking. I'm done with the game though but for the bards that still play.

[this user was banned]

See that meditate button the the spellbook? That's classic and it sucks. The whole point of this project is to relive the classic experience, warts and all.

I believe item linking has been left in place because they haven't reversed engineered the titanium client yet to remove it.

[Hazek]

I DONT LIKE CLASSIC EQ BUT I WANT TO PLAY CLASSIC EQ PLS MAKE IT INTO WOW FOR ME TY

False interpretation. Both extremes of "ultra classic" and "too many updates" are bad. The best approach is to keep it as classic as possible but still fix obvious problems like the meditate button or no inherent stopsong. But that requires a smart and reasonable dev with the vision to know when he's going too far. Not that i'm implying anything about the current devs, sincerely, because I understand why they maintain the ultra classic attitude despite that not being best.

[this user was banned]

False interpretation. Both extremes of "ultra classic" and "too many updates" are bad. The best approach is to keep it as classic as possible but still fix obvious problems like the meditate button or no inherent stopsong. But that requires a smart and reasonable dev with the vision to know when he's going too far. Not that i'm implying anything about the current devs, sincerely, because I understand why they maintain the ultra classic attitude despite that not being best.

They only seem to make non classic changes for serious game breaking things like stopping the ability to recharge the lifetap hoops. This project has never been about selectively streamlining everquest, it's been about trying to reproduce the game as it was experienced many years ago.

If you don't agree then you might want to try another server.

[Hazek]

They only seem to make non classic changes for serious game breaking things like stopping the ability to recharge the lifetap hoops. This project has never been about selectively streamlining everquest, it's been about trying to reproduce the game as it was experienced many years ago.

If you don't agree then you might want to try another server.

Woosh. "Streamlining Everquest" is not what I was saying at all. That's one of the extremes i'm against.

[Hazek]

I DONT LIKE CLASSIC EQ BUT I WANT TO PLAY CLASSIC EQ PLS MAKE IT INTO WOW FOR ME TY

I DONT LIKE CLASSIC EQ BUT I WANT TO PLAY CLASSIC EQ PLS MAKE IT INTO WOW FOR ME AND CHANGE LIFETAP HOOPS TY

[this user was banned]

Woosh. "Streamlining Everquest" is not what I was saying at all. That's one of the extremes i'm against.

changing something because it's just pointless and annoying" as you stated is by definition streamlining

[Hazek]

changing something because it's just pointless and annoying" as you stated is by definition streamlining

Subjective semantics.

Fixing something that has no purpose in the game that negatively effects it with zero benefits is not the same as adding a feature like group finder, which is closer to the vague definition of "streamlining".

[this user was banned]

Subjective semantics.

Fixing something that has no purpose in the game that negatively effects it with zero benefits is not the same as adding a feature like group finder, which is closer to the vague definition of "streamlining".

Vague definition?

stream·line
/ˈstrēmˌlīn/
verb

make (an organization or system) more efficient and effective by employing faster or simpler working methods.

This is precisely doing what you want. Removal of “Bards, having to double click to achieve twisting”

Again, the whole point of the project is to recreate the stupid shit that was present in classic EQ. Some of us actually want to experience the original game as it was. Including pointless things like disabled tab targeting. Maybe p99 isn’t for you.

[Hazek]

Vague definition?

stream·line
/ˈstrēmˌlīn/
verb

make (an organization or system) more efficient and effective by employing faster or simpler working methods.

This is precisely doing what you want. Removal of “Bards, having to double click to achieve twisting”

Again, the whole point of the project is to recreate the stupid shit that was present in classic EQ. Some of us actually want to experience the original game as it was. Including pointless things like disabled tab targeting. Maybe p99 isn’t for you.

Then maybe you should petition the devs so players have to stare at the spell book to meditate if that's what you want. Keep it "classic" with all the stupid shit right?

And removing the need to double tap doesn't make anything faster or more efficient since you're still limited to how fast you can twist according to the cast time. All it does is remove a redundant keypress. Same with removing the meditate button that you're opposed to and mistakenly define as "streamlining"; Which is why I said its vague because even you aren't using that word correctly.

[Smurflogik]

Double-tap/roll twisting is where it's at. Feel the rhythm. You are a bard, after all.

[larper99]

Double-tap/roll twisting is where it's at. Feel the rhythm. You are a bard, after all.

I've got two hands. I'll probably assign some off key on my right hand to be "gem1" Then to get the same effect as "roll", I'll just quickly use right-left. I'll see how it works tonight. Double click will probably lead to carpal tunnel relatively quickly, while "rolling" will seem unnatural and error prone. I'll try a couple of variations. See which one gives me the most consistent twist with the most comfort.

[this user was banned]

Then maybe you should petition the devs so players have to stare at the spell book to meditate if that's what you want. Keep it "classic" with all the stupid shit right?

And removing the need to double tap doesn't make anything faster or more efficient since you're still limited to how fast you can twist according to the cast time. All it does is remove a redundant keypress. Same with removing the meditate button that you're opposed to and mistakenly define as "streamlining"; Which is why I said its vague because even you aren't using that word correctly.

make (an organization or system) more efficient and effective by employing faster or simpler working methods.

Make a system more efficient by employing simpler working methods.

“All it does is remove a redundant keypress“

Remove a redundant keypress = employing simpler working methods.

Streamlining is making something simpler/easier by using better methods.

You want to make playing Bard simpler and easier by employing a simpler method through removing a redundant key press.

Your own words, there is no vagueness here.

Yes it would be nice to make bard easier to play but that isn’t classic and goes against the goals of p99. Many people have spent many hours researching, and in the process, removed a lot of conviences for the sole purpose of making it closer to the original game.

And yes I’d like them to restore having to stare at the spell book as that was also something I remember from years ago, but that’s another limitation of the Titanium client we are currently stuck with.

[this user was banned]

Same with removing the meditate button that you're opposed to and mistakenly define as "streamlining"; Which is why I said its vague because even you aren't using that word correctly.

I'm NOT opposed to the meditate button, it's classic and I'm here for classic EQ, meditate button, and the clunky bard mechanics.

[Hazek]

make (an organization or system) more efficient and effective by employing faster or simpler working methods.

Make a system more efficient by employing simpler working methods.

“All it does is remove a redundant keypress“

Remove a redundant keypress = employing simpler working methods.

Streamlining is making something simpler/easier by using better methods.

You want to make playing Bard simpler and easier by employing a simpler method through removing a redundant key press.

Your own words, there is no vagueness here.

Yes it would be nice to make bard easier to play but that isn’t classic and goes against the goals of p99. Many people have spent many hours researching, and in the process, removed a lot of conviences for the sole purpose of making it closer to the original game.

And yes I’d like them to restore having to stare at the spell book as that was also something I remember from years ago, but that’s another limitation of the Titanium client we are currently stuck with.

https://i.imgur.com/aaNy45B.gif

Even Brad disagrees with having to stare at the spell book. Terrible things like that is not what made EQ classic so great. All they did was make it worse. Same thing with a UI that covers 3/4th of the screen. Some changes are good that don't harm the "classic experience". The problem is that some devs take it too far over the years so you end up with something like retail. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't change a single thing. But this argument wont progress further because we're just arguing opinions.

[this user was banned]

https://i.imgur.com/aaNy45B.gif

Even Brad disagrees with having to stare at the spell book. Terrible things like that is not what made EQ classic so great. All they did was make it worse. Same thing with a UI that covers 3/4th of the screen. Some changes are good that don't harm the "classic experience". The problem is that some devs take it too far over the years so you end up with something like retail. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't change a single thing. But this argument wont progress further because we're just arguing opinions.

No, it won't go anywhere because you don't understand the definition of a simple word, don't understand what p99 is about, and always have to be right.

Brad's opinion doesn't mean anything when the goal of the project is:

"Our goal is to restore the magic and difficulty of the original Everquest game, including the mechanics, interface, and challenges of Original Content, Kunark, and Velious. Project 1999 is the most popular and most accurate reincarnation of Old School Everquest."

It's not to to create a better version of classic EQ based on what you think should be changed. You clearly have your own vision for a server, go make your own like many others have.

[azeth]

Just catching up, but it seems citizen Hazek has acknowledged he scripts AND ninja loots in the same thread.

Legendary

[Wallicker]

All these Super Pro bards but I never see any...

[Hazek]

Just catching up, but it seems citizen Hazek has acknowledged he scripts AND ninja loots in the same thread.

Legendary

I used a script that I wrote and was open about it for the reasons I already listed. If I really wanted to I could have continued to use it without them ever knowing. And looting a corpse that's gone public because its rotting isn't ninjaing. If they wanted the loot then they have plenty of time to get it, that's the point of the timer.

[this user was banned]

I used a script that I wrote and was open about it for the reasons I already listed. And looting a corpse that's gone public because its rotting isn't ninjaing. If they wanted the loot then they have plenty of time to get it, that's the point of the timer.

It's common courtesy to ask, but you clearly only care about yourself and what you want and are always right so it doesn't matter.

[Hazek]

It's common courtesy to ask, but you clearly only care about yourself and what you want and are always right so it doesn't matter.

Well considering the fact (that you didn't consider for some reason) that it has zero effect on the gameplay of others, along with having to double tap being a pointless mechanic that everyone uses stopsong to fix anyway, yeah.
And if I only cared about myself then I wouldn't have shared it. Although now I see that I should just keep it to myself since ignorant idiots will never get it, inevitably get mad, and don't deserve to know.

Its not a farming bot. Its a macro script that literally has the exact same result as twisting without it. It just lets me use my action slots to switch instruments instead of wasting them for no good reason.

[this user was banned]

Well considering the fact (that you didn't consider for some reason) that it has zero effect on the gameplay of others, along with having to double tap being a dumb and useless mechanic that everyone uses stopsong to fix anyway, yeah.
And if I only cared about myself then I wouldn't have shared it. Although now I see that I should just keep it to myself since ignorant idiots will never get it, inevitably get mad, and don't deserve to know.

Its not a farming bot. Its a macro script that literally has the exact same result as twisting without it. It just lets me use my action slots to switch instruments instead of wasting them for no good reason.

And there's no point in asking an irrational iron fist to do something reasonable that has no negative effects.

It's ok we get it, you are a selfish, self righteous asshole that openly advocates breaking server rules because you think you are better than them and argues with developers over the rules because you are always right and everyone else who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

[Hazek]

It's ok we get it, you are a selfish, self righteous asshole that openly advocates breaking server rules because you think you are better than them and argues with developers over the rules because you are always right and everyone else who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

Lmao. The only reason you have that attitude is because of the stigma behind the word "script" and your lack of understanding of what it actually does despite me clearly explaining it. And another reason I won't mention that some of us can guess.

Are the developers of Bless Online always right just because they're developers? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJGOYJo9mM

[ArunaGreen]

2. That's ninja looting. You didn't kill it, you don't loot it. There's no confusion, and its backed by staff. Only dex marginally helps with missed notes, CHA does not. CHA doesn't help bard mez or charm in the least bit. It ONLY helps on critical lull resists and vendor prices.


Actually char definitely helps with charm. It does not help land a charm but it does have a significant effect on it breaking early.

[this user was banned]

Lmao. The only reason you have that attitude is because of the stigma behind the word "script" and your lack of understanding of what it actually does despite me clearly explaining it. And another reason I won't mention that some of us can guess.

Are the developers of Bless Online always right just because they're developers? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJGOYJo9mM

I've been a programmer for well over 12 years. In my spare time I've written scripts and utility programs for many other games including developing multiboxing programs for Anarchy Online.

I know what scripts are and what they can do, but do you know what RULES are?

Oh that's right, you don't care because you don't agree with them and would rather argue with the developers who give you this game for FREE in concordance with you agreeing to their rules.

I don't give a shit about bless online.
Bottom line is, the developers made this game, and you are allowed to play if you agree to the server rules. If you don't agree then leave and don't publicly advocate breaking server rules to new people.

If you think a rule should be changed, make a constructive post about it and remember that you don't own this server and you don't own this code, so if you want things to always be your way then start your own server.

[Videri]

Actually char definitely helps with charm. It does not help land a charm but it does have a significant effect on it breaking early.

That might be true, but since it only lasts 18 seconds anyway, it might not be worth considering. :/

[Hazek]

"I DONT CAR IF IT MAKES SENSE AND DOESNT AFFECT THE GAME RULES ARE RULES STOP USING YOUR BRAIN AND LOGICKL HARRRRR DUAARRRRRRR IM SO MAD THAT YOU CAN TWIST WITH ONE BUTON INSTED OF TOO"

You missed the point about the Bless Online comment.

[ArunaGreen]

So the bard, as is currently expected to be played, is handicapped out of the box

Hard to say that one of the most OP classes in the game is handicapped lol. Bards merely have a slight inconvenience in achieving optimal play by having to hit buttons more often than any other class. However, the overall power of a bard massively overshadows this as we are easily one of the strongest classes in the game.

[this user was banned]

CHA is more important as a bard for preventing getting aggro on a lull resist when pulling.

[ArunaGreen]

That might be true, but since it only lasts 18 seconds anyway, it might not be worth considering. :/

The real reason you want charisma is for lulling. I basically never get crit resists anymore with 230 charisma.

[this user was banned]

You missed the point about the Bless Online comment.

Just GTFO already.

[Hazek]

Hard to say that one of the most OP classes in the game is handicapped lol. Bards merely have a slight inconvenience in achieving optimal play by having to hit buttons more often than any other class. However, the overall power of a bard massively overshadows this as we are easily one of the strongest classes in the game.

He's talking about being handicapped by having to waste your action slots just to fix a bad game mechanic with stop song macros.

[this user was banned]

He's talking about being handicapped by having to waste your action slots just to fix a bad game mechanic with stop song macros.

Project 1999 IS ABOUT RECREATING BAD GAME MECHANICS.

Just leave already.

[Legidias]

Actually char definitely helps with charm. It does not help land a charm but it does have a significant effect on it breaking early.

It doesn't. Ive tested it with 255 CHA and <60 CHA. Literally no difference in average charm time on blue mobs to a 60. Again, CHA is ONLY used on lull / vendor prices for non-enchanter classes.

(It's not in the game yet, but crusty / -CHA sets are also super useful for pulling with crit fail lulls. I'd argue that -cha is more important than +cha to be honest. Successfully landing lull = 90% level based)

[Videri]

If I were to play a bard again, I'd go 25 Stamina, 5 Strength.
• Charisma: affects duration of our charm...which lasts 18 seconds; and reduces critical lull resists, which you won't get if you're significantly higher level than the mob; so we might as well not worry about it.
• Dexterity: increases procs, which we don't rely on; reduces missed notes, which aren't a problem. If you get a missed note, you see that your song isn't starting and you push the song button again. No need for starting points to go here.
• Strength: you'll get enough from typical bard gear, especially if you collect some weight-reduction bags
• Agility: doesn't matter if you're not tanking; and isn't very effective when you are. Sad but true.
• Wisdom: irrelevant to a bard
• Intelligence: increases our mana pool which we use for 2 songs. Granted, one of them is the higher-level charm, but oom is oom. No one can charm nonstop, so mana regen is the limiting factor, not mana pool.
• Stamina: 25 points in stamina yields 100 hp at level 60. That's not jaw-dropping, but it's solid; and certainly more valuable than any of the above.

I wish you could put starting points into resists...I'd go 25 to Magic.

[larper99]

So, my experiment last night:

I switched key bindings so that QWERTYUI are my spell gems, with WERT being the major ones. Now 1-6 are true actions, plus a macroed SELO just so it is always available in emergencies.

Results:
1) I will have to retrain some habits (like I is no longer inventory)
2) Double clicking is no faster than /stopsong.
3) Now, a missed note renders double-clicking more problematic than /stopsong, since continuing to double click without realizing that you are no longer singing means you continuously interrupt your own cast. So, you have to be highly aware of the state of your spell gems and single click when appropriate.

But, it is sure nice to have hotbar buttons back.

What I would really like to try is find 8 different characters that can be rearranged into various words. That way, various twists can be remembered as different words, and twisting would simply become typing. But for now, QWERTYUI works well.

Actually, I just thought of something. It uses up a precious HotBar button, but.... What if I made a macro that was ONLY /stopsong? Now the double-click/single click issue goes away. Since /stopsong is demonstrably NOT slower than double clicking, it only is left to demonstrate that a macroed /stopsong plus s single click gem is no slower than double clicking... Gotta try this.

[this user was banned]

Actually, I just thought of something. It uses up a precious HotBar button, but.... What if I made a macro that was ONLY /stopsong? Now the double-click/single click issue goes away. Since /stopsong is demonstrably NOT slower than double clicking, it only is left to demonstrate that a macroed /stopsong plus s single click gem is no slower than double clicking... Gotta try this.

This is similar to how some casters, especially enchanters, use clickies like spyglass to circumvent the spell global cool down (which bards don’t have) to cast two different spells faster like a stun then immediately start casting mez/charm instead of having to wait a couple seconds. You can make a clickie hotkey and just press the hotkey keybind to activate it right after your spell goes off, then the other spell gems are ready.

With bard or enchanter, seconds can really matter when it comes to CC at higher levels so use whatever is faster for you.

[Wallicker]

I mean if CHA is a bonus stat on a piece of gear great, gearing towards it as a main stat on a bard? Meh kinda silly especially if you get a crit resist you can easily keep 5 mobs mezzed for your group, tank stats AC/HP/Resists are far far more important. I guess if you wanted to waste precious inventory slots on a set of high Charisma gear to help you split a camp deep in a dungeon solo that would be okay. But then again when splitting a camp be smart and lull the lower lvl mobs that don’t self buff with MR first and you will pretty much never get a crit resist. Putting any of your starting stats into anything but ALL Stamina as a bard is a step away from min/max. I’d love to put 25 sta and 5str but alas bards only get 25 points so put them in stamina.

[zanderklocke]

If I were to play a bard again, I'd go 25 Stamina, 5 Strength.
• Charisma: affects duration of our charm...which lasts 18 seconds; and reduces critical lull resists, which you won't get if you're significantly higher level than the mob; so we might as well not worry about it.
• Dexterity: increases procs, which we don't rely on; reduces missed notes, which aren't a problem. If you get a missed note, you see that your song isn't starting and you push the song button again. No need for starting points to go here.
• Strength: you'll get enough from typical bard gear, especially if you collect some weight-reduction bags
• Agility: doesn't matter if you're not tanking; and isn't very effective when you are. Sad but true.
• Wisdom: irrelevant to a bard
• Intelligence: increases our mana pool which we use for 2 songs. Granted, one of them is the higher-level charm, but oom is oom. No one can charm nonstop, so mana regen is the limiting factor, not mana pool.
• Stamina: 25 points in stamina yields 100 hp at level 60. That's not jaw-dropping, but it's solid; and certainly more valuable than any of the above.

I wish you could put starting points into resists...I'd go 25 to Magic.

For what it’s worth, Sta and Str will be maxed out by best in slot gear in Velious. Cha and Dex will not be.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Zanderr_Locke_Best_in_Slot_(Velious)

[Wallicker]

STA still maxed when you swap in SWC at arm slot and drum of the beast in primary? Also no dain ring?

[zanderklocke]

I put Dain Ring in the Magelo page’s inventory slot for the click effect, but I think the other two rings have better overall stats. I mean those are all kind of the three best rings.

Fair point on the others though. I added spirit wracked cord to arms instead of Vulak arms. While Vulak arms have better AC, overall stat additions, and resists, you get more raw HP on your character with the cords. Now, when not using Drums of the Beast, a bard is 4 stamina under the max. I guess you could carry a dragon steak in your inventory to still be at max Sta. ;)

I think ultimately, Cha is the hardest stat to get closest to maxed out in best in slot Velious gear for a bard, for what it’s worth. Dex will be maxed via an Avatar proc with Primal weapon.

[Wallicker]

Haha yeah to get all that gear before green timeline ends would be truly impressive lol oh and don’t forget summoned cold stone everyone loves mages for that BiS ammo slot haha

[Ahris]

Hi! As a person who has never even reached cap, much less touched a bard how would I go about playing a bard?
Any helpful low level quests? I plan on going Human. Any gear I should go for? How would I go about making macros and the like?

Think of yourself as a mage more than a fighter, even though you can melee, most of the time you can often deal more damage using instrments while also being able to heal yourself and the group at the same time.

Be versatile and adapt your songs to the group you're in; If you don't need to heal and you have someone else doing crowd control you can whip out your weapons and stick to singing but if you lack a healer and get adds you might as well use your lute and do AoE damage, Healing and group haste for example, you'll get aggro from the add but your healing compensates for it long enough for the tank to take over once the main target is dead and by then you will have worn down its health a bit. :)

The songs you typically twist changes with your levels but keep in mind that all songs increase in power with your skills and only a few (Charm and mez) are ever outgrown. By lvl 50 even your lvl 1 song will be super powerful. :)
There are many ways to play a bard so the best thing to do is to learn what the songs do and change them according to what is needed for the moment and how you prefer to play, you can be a ranged or close range DPS guy if you want or a backline buffer/pocket healer, it's all up to you. You will mostly be the one who decides what the group really needs from you so it's good to know what other classes do and spot what they need help doing (Because many people don't play their class like a pro).

Almost all songs can be sung without instruments but by playing their associated instrument (if they have one) they will become twice as powerful.

While you will have many soloing options, what bards really do best is boosting the power of any group.

I've never used macros, i have five songs hotslotted for twisting and an assist button in the sixth slot. You typically twist three songs but you will need to change a song sometimes so the other two are to change to an alternatice sequence; You might for example need to mez an add suddenly or stop doing AoE damage if you have an enchanter mezzing, this way you can easily do that without interrupting the other songs.

You don't really need any special gear except protective gear since bards get slapped around a lot but the stats you want to increase are CHA and DEX, up toa point in the early game you will also want to build STR to be able to wear heavy armor.
When it comes to weapons you will never deal much melee damage so personally i primarily use weapons with debuff procs, keep in mind though that your songs are already generating tons of aggro so you have to learn to manage it unlesss you have a good tank. :)

Something worth to remember is since you are mostly actively buffing the whole group, if anyone gets attacked you automatically end up on the mob's hatelist. So if a sand giant hits your mage you will be next so get selo's up and zone it, preferably take the mage with you. :)

[ArunaGreen]

I mean if CHA is a bonus stat on a piece of gear great, gearing towards it as a main stat on a bard? Meh kinda silly especially if you get a crit resist you can easily keep 5 mobs mezzed for your group, tank stats AC/HP/Resists are far far more important. I guess if you wanted to waste precious inventory slots on a set of high Charisma gear to help you split a camp deep in a dungeon solo that would be okay. But then again when splitting a camp be smart and lull the lower lvl mobs that don’t self buff with MR first and you will pretty much never get a crit resist. Putting any of your starting stats into anything but ALL Stamina as a bard is a step away from min/max. I’d love to put 25 sta and 5str but alas bards only get 25 points so put them in stamina.

You won't be saying this when you're doing level 40+ mobs. +25 to charisma, no question about it. I never get crit resists pulling efreeti.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Think of yourself as a mage more than a fighter, even though you can melee, most of the time you can often deal more damage using instrments while also being able to heal yourself and the group at the same time.


Learned this as my Bard increased in levels. Sure, when you're in the lower levels your Bard melee will help the group kills things MUCH faster. Once you're around the mid-30s though, you'll be far better off using instruments. For example you Lute+Hymn is absurd amounts of HP regen. Your Drums+Rhythm can make your tank resist 80% of all enemy spells in a place like Mistmoore.

Especially right now, when Clarity isn't in game yet, saving your healers mana will increase your group's killing speed FAR more than your Bard melee DPS will.

It's also a helluva lot easier on your fingers (instead of constantly swapping weapons/instruments in/out)

[Ataria]

I don't have /stopsong macros. I ALT + Double Tap for songs 4-8. I use the keypad for movement and not WASD. I pretty much only use the mouse to instrument twist.

I always likened barding to playing the piano IRL. A two-handed non-stop effort that can leave you crippled if you don't do the right warm-up exercises.

I like double-tapping. I find it gives the class 'tempo'. It keeps you alert and concentrated when you have to have different reactions to missed notes/stuns than your "normal" twist (not sure i'm explaining this right).

cheers,

Astuce

This is exactly how I played on Live. Not sure why I never used /stopsong. Not sure i even knew about it. I like how you likened it playing the piano. I never would have made that association.

I did start up a little bard on green, first one since Live. And it was like riding a bike, the double tapping came right back, the notes and timings still in my head. I could double tap with my eyes closed.. I know exactly when the songs end on the dot intuitively.

The biggest thing I remember on live is people would always be mad at me because I could not chat with them.. My reply was always "twisting!"

I wonder, is it so much of a loss if you do not use /stopsong?

I will have to experiment, but double tapping is just so automatic for me, so natural.

[Wallicker]

You won't be saying this when you're doing level 40+ mobs. +25 to charisma, no question about it. I never get crit resists pulling efreeti.

Having leveled two bards to 60 and multiple more to 50+ and already having a 40+ bard on teal I’m happy to say I’m glad I went 25 stamina and again any bard trying to min/max shouldn’t go Charisma, so you get a crit lull on efreeti just mez the adds.

[roj1]

we permit download links to the Quran? holy sh1t

[Cyrillious]

This is exactly how I played on Live. Not sure why I never used /stopsong. Not sure i even knew about it. I like how you likened it playing the piano. I never would have made that association.

I did start up a little bard on green, first one since Live. And it was like riding a bike, the double tapping came right back, the notes and timings still in my head. I could double tap with my eyes closed.. I know exactly when the songs end on the dot intuitively.

The biggest thing I remember on live is people would always be mad at me because I could not chat with them.. My reply was always "twisting!"

I wonder, is it so much of a loss if you do not use /stopsong?

I will have to experiment, but double tapping is just so automatic for me, so natural.

This is exactly how I used to play on Live as well. It becomes melodic in nature. Also, it is nice to have that manual cadence going, and be able to immediately switch over to another song if needed based on the extra pull/add w/o skipping a beat. I tried /stopsong at one point, and found it clunky at best compared to the cadence/flexibility I had doing it manually.

I got really good at fast & furious typing in between the 3 seconds...

[blooder4]

make 1-8 hotkeyed to spellgems 1-8.
Is there see way to get 8 hotkeys on the UI? Mine only show 6 currently.

[larper99]

Is there see way to get 8 hotkeys on the UI? Mine only show 6 currently.

There are about 100 hotkeys, depending on the size of your keyboard. There are 6 slots in your EQ UI hotbar, however.

To map your keyboard 1-8 buttons to the spell gems means changing your key bindings in ALT-O. That means you would need to also remap your key bindings to your hotbar buttons.

[k9quaint]

When the GMs ban Hazek, could they pls post the video?
Thanks.

[Jadian]

Yeah and I openly talk about using it for multiple reasons such as:

- Banning people for that would be dumb and petty since all it does is fix a bad mechanic that everyone fixes with macros and shouldn't exist to begin with.
- It would also demonstrate how unreasonable and irrational you are.
- Playing a bard without it is cancer.
- I don't need Everquest in my life and getting banned would be a favor since I only play cause its kinda fun and addicting but would be better off without it.
- I already uninstalled anyway.
- If I really cared then I would just keep using it without mentioning it and nothing would happen since its a macro and not a hack and you would never even know. Just like in all the other games i've used scripts in.

But yea go for it Stalin.


This is an easy ban that makes the community better

[Dreenk317]

Wait.... someone is writing scripts to twist bard songs?!?! Wow.... if you cant play the class without cheating..... dont....