list system flaw

[ilgart112]

i used to spout good things about the list system but just encountered a bit of a flaw.

I woke up this morning to camp rubi bp, got down here all spawns are up. 3 people in line none of them can kill the spawn. litterally all just sitting here keeping their spot in the list. I guess im supposed to solo the spawn for 30 hours to get the 4th bp ya right im out of here.

Prob should make some kind of adjust for this lol.

[Chocolope]

i used to spout good things about the list system but just encountered a bit of a flaw.

I woke up this morning to camp rubi bp, got down here all spawns are up. 3 people in line none of them can kill the spawn. litterally all just sitting here keeping their spot in the list. I guess im supposed to solo the spawn for 30 hours to get the 4th bp ya right im out of here.

Prob should make some kind of adjust for this lol.

Probably eating government cheese too

[solleks]

prob using government drugs too

[Nukehard]

Should implement something to where if the PH isn't dead within 30 mins or so of spawn everyone on list gets kicked off(or top 2-3) with 5 min lockout on re joining list. It is pretty dumb people can hold a spot captive like that just because they're high enough level even if they can't solo it.

[aaezil]

Thats what happens when a free pixel line is hard coded.... and the gm laughed and said this isnt realistic when we told him this is what would happen :)

[eisenfaust]

there are people in line that can kill him actually.. we just arent doing it for 1 solo rogue.

[Rang]

Do you think those folks will just wait there in perpetuity? Sort of like a living grave? Is it really people behind the toon or some sort of chinese robot?

[nectarprime]

You could have grouped with them and killed it, furthering along the list.

[Donkey Hotay]

Four people are refusing to cooperate to get pixels in an MMO.

The list system isn't broken. The players are.

[ilgart112]

You could have grouped with them and killed it, furthering along the list.

could have also trained him killed him

[Tilien]

The whole "you should be able to solo camp the spawn" mentality is toxic. The point of the list is to enforce people grouping at the spawn and allowing the people who show up for it rather than holding spots for friends.

If someone refuses to help and refuses to group for it and they're number 1, that's one thing. If they can't solo and ask others on the list to work together that's another thing.

[Nukehard]

Four people are refusing to cooperate to get pixels in an MMO.

The list system isn't broken. The players are.

When it can take 12+ hours to drop an item why would player A who can solo it waste 12 hours helping player B who can't solo it get said item for player B to not stick around to help player A because he got his item for one, or for two player A now has to log because he just spent 12 hours helping number 1 on list get said item.

[drackgon]

I think only guys from taken 2 are refusing to group with others. Claming they have a group

[ilgart112]

ya sorry but im not "grouping" with others for 40 hours to get them free loot. Nurga you outta yo mind.

[Tilien]

When it can take 12+ hours to drop an item why would player A who can solo it waste 12 hours helping player B who can't solo it get said item for player B to not stick around to help player A because he got his item for one, or for two player A now has to log because he just spent 12 hours helping number 1 on list get said item.

Because if everyone does this then player B will get help from C and C will get help from D and so forth....

Also because B has a choice of waiting 12 hours for him and A to work together to kill the thing or 24 hours to wait for A to give up.


Greed or altruism, your choice, it makes sense both ways.

[drackgon]

So then you think list is broken bc you refuse to group and help farm an item?

[Tilien]

I would like to lock lower level people out of level appropriate content because I want my pixels.

Nice.

[ilgart112]

Nice.

exactly 100%

[Sagus]

there are people in line that can kill him actually.. we just arent doing it for 1 solo rogue.

Yes, wasting dozens more hours staring at a screen pointlessly makes so much more sense. Brilliant!

[ilgart112]

lets all be fwends work togever and get our entitled pixels. im a person i earned it. Im entitled because i simply just sit here. i sit here.

[Chocolope]

Make legacy item lists require L50. ez.

[ilgart112]

I already left the camp i dont give a fuck about this shit. Just giving feedback because i see this as a true flaw to the system the staff may want to look into. I'm actually producing something without complaining. I dont care if it gets changed or not. if i dont get a bp oh well i already moved on.

[Roth]

So then you think list is broken bc you refuse to group and help farm an item?

This is like if a random level 50 shows up nagafen, hides in a corner for 10 hours and a raid guild shows up to kill him and he was on some sort of "list"... would you say the same thing if they refused to help him farm his items off nagafen?

[nectarprime]

Yes, wasting dozens more hours staring at a screen pointlessly makes so much more sense. Brilliant!

I just cannot understand their mentality. They would rather not get their item than help someone get theirs and decrease the time to get their own. There is no way someone with this thought process can be a functioning member of society.

[Donkey Hotay]

Why should I cooperate to get the things I want when I could wait indefinitely not getting the things I want because I'm scared to death someone might call my elf a cuck.

[nectarprime]

I already left the camp i dont give a fuck about this shit. Just giving feedback because i see this as a true flaw to the system the staff may want to look into. I'm actually producing something without complaining. I dont care if it gets changed or not. if i dont get a bp oh well i already moved on.

You do understand that if you had grouped and killed the mob, you would have your bp now, right?

[silo32]

I just cannot understand their mentality. They would rather not get their item than help someone get theirs and decrease the time to get their own. There is no way someone with this thought process can be a functioning member of society.

if I refuse to work you are going to pay my bills and take care of me right?

right?

im on the list...


right?

[Chocolope]

if I refuse to work you are going to pay my bills and take care of me right?

right?

im on the list...


right?

ye, if you on the welfare list, I will

[nectarprime]

if I refuse to work you are going to pay my bills and take care of me right?

right?

im on the list...


right?

The point I'm making is that this thought process shows a severe lack of critical thinking and basic problem solving. If you kill the mob, you progress on the list.

If you show up and someone needs help, it benefits all parties to help. There is no downside.

[Jack N]

If the player at the top of the list is unable to hold the camp solo, or is unable to requisition the help necessary to clear it, they should lose their spot.

Give the list #1 two minutes to engage the mob and if they don't, they're cut.

[Phaezed-Reality]

everywhere i go..... someone atleast one person is infront of me that needs me to clear it for them...add's extra 10 hours. But hey, atleast people who didn't work for them got their items. not to mention i worked a 3rd shift to get mine. I feel good about it ! This is the classic i remember.

[drackgon]

Roth bud clearly admins picked very select items to list on. They clearly didn't pick dragons for that reason. Give real insightful and helpful responses KK.

[Jack N]

The point I'm making is that this thought process shows a severe lack of critical thinking and basic problem solving. If you kill the mob, you progress on the list.

If you show up and someone needs help, it benefits all parties to help. There is no downside.

This is the problem. Players unable to hold the camp are shifting the burden to everyone else. The system should be changed.

[ilgart112]

The point I'm making is that this thought process shows a severe lack of critical thinking and basic problem solving. If you kill the mob, you progress on the list.

If you show up and someone needs help, it benefits all parties to help. There is no downside.

you are a complete retard. its a 10 hour camp. there are 3 people ahead of me not killing the mob. im not going to sit there for 40 hours to get the item and do all the work for them. again you are a complete retard.

[aaezil]

This is like if a random level 50 shows up nagafen, hides in a corner for 10 hours and a raid guild shows up to kill him and he was on some sort of "list"... would you say the same thing if they refused to help him farm his items off nagafen?

Doesnt matter if its a rusty skeleton or nagafen. #1 on the list is entitled to the item. All the rest is just you projecting.

[Chocolope]

feel the bern. bless socialism.

[nectarprime]

you are a complete retard. its a 10 hour camp. there are 3 people ahead of me not killing the mob. im not going to sit there for 40 hours to get the item and do all the work for them. again you are a complete retard.

Ah yes such hard "work". Great argument kiddo

[Roth]

Roth bud clearly admins picked very select items to list on. They clearly didn't pick dragons for that reason. Give real insightful and helpful responses KK.

How is this situation different?

[Phaezed-Reality]

Ah yes such hard "work". Great argument kiddo

This is a troll right? or are you salty its a classic server that you cant get high enough level on or, planned all along to abuse the system and have us farm your shit for you?

This is the most classic thing i ever experienced.

[Tilien]

you are a complete retard. its a 10 hour camp. there are 3 people ahead of me not killing the mob. im not going to sit there for 40 hours to get the item and do all the work for them. again you are a complete retard.

You have 3 options:

A) Wait 40 hours for an item nonafk.
B) Wait 40 hours for an item nonafk.
C) Not wait for an item.


You're okay with A and C but not B. Got it.

[Jack N]

Ah yes such hard "work". Great argument kiddo

Sounds like something someone who wants to sit at the top of the list and not kill the mob would say.

[Roth]

Doesnt matter if its a rusty skeleton or nagafen. #1 on the list is entitled to the item. All the rest is just you projecting.

If you really would defend the system in the scenario I listed, you're kidding yourself. That wouldn't even be close to classic eq and blind defense of that specific scenario means you're just defending the status quo.

[worm4real]

there are people in line that can kill him actually.. we just arent doing it for 1 solo rogue.

stubbornquest

edit:
It'd be really nice if there was some ethos here beyond greed though. Everybody likes to pretend it's about 'earning' the item but the less of these items the more valuable they'll be, so it's in no one's interest to help anyone else. As insane as it sounds waiting 80 hours on a petition to get one person thrown off a list is better than waiting 40 hours to help him get the item because all you're doing is lessening your own monopolization of power by getting someone an item you're trying to keep scarce. These items should just be made no trade and be done with it or just start it with them disabled. It's becoming a ZEM situation where by leaving something like this in all you're doing is encouraging behavior that is decidedly not classic and against the spirit of the server.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Sounds like something someone who wants to sit at the top of the list and not kill the mob would say.

would love to know what level he is, and what camp he is afk listing at right now, while he plays his teal character.

ah well, classic is classic.

[Jack N]

Come back to the camp when you're actually able to hold it. This should be a requirement.

[ilgart112]

the halfling rogue that was number 1 on the list was city, forgot the rest i left the camp 5 minutes after figuring out the situation. nectarprime and/or tillien is probably city.

green server rubi bp camp

[Tilien]

the halfling rogue that was number 1 on the list was city, forgot the rest i left the camp 5 minutes after figuring out the situation. nectarprime and/or tillien is probably city.

green server rubi bp camp

I'm not listing. My shaman is happy with non legacy items.

I don't really want to make a chanter, but honestly the evil eye in lower guk seems like a good pet, might make a chanter and charm him for an 18 hour xp session.

[HedleyKow]

I'm of the opinion that getting #1 on the list when you can't solo the camp is a dick move. If you require a group for the camp, then you should form a group to do it and roll to see what order people are on the list rather than one person holding the list hostage and begging people to help with the camp.

As suggested above, there should be a time limit for engaging the PH/Named before being removed from the list and a few minute lockout before being able to go back on the list.

[Grakken]

I dealt with this same problem at manastone.

I believe the List system was a way to give everyone an opportunity to content that would otherwise be passed from one friend to the next. Love it. Love it a lot.

The problem is content != Free pixels. List 1, you've earned right to farm the content. But it should be list 1's responsibility to form a group or solo.

[ilgart112]

its been 3 hours now since i first checked and the spawn still hasnt been killed once. I dont know how long they have been there waiting but i first checked 3 hours ago.

[Whirled]

Good movie quote:
"And I am reminded on this holy day of the sad story of Kitty Genovese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese). As you all may remember, long time ago almost 30 years ago. This poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered her calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men. But, there is another kind of evil which we must fear most … and that is the indifference of good men!"

Be the change you wish to see.

[Erati]

maybe the lists will work better in a month

[Tenderizer]

I think only guys from taken 2 are refusing to group with others. Claming they have a group

guy and his crew show up because they know AoF's up, they go to kill just to find a rogue sitting there waiting on list not willing to "random" if it does drops... how is that the taken guys fault? rogue seems like hes just cock blocking or holding it till friends come on.

just my 2 cp

[bubur]

just leave the camp and come back later

[drackgon]

Rogue seems to have asked a few times for helping killing the PH for BP. Taken guy claims he can kill it within 5 mins of City leaving.. Yet City has waited longer. Taken guy has only been here what 2 hours? City 5 hours.. I think peeps should work together and help move along list.. but that is just my 2cp

[Tenderizer]

I'm not listing. My shaman is happy with non legacy items.

I don't really want to make a chanter, but honestly the evil eye in lower guk seems like a good pet, might make a chanter and charm him for an 18 hour xp session.

that is something you would do and thats alpha chad for sure....

[Lojik]

So people are holding #1 spot hostage, other neckbeards refusing to help clear PH's and produce more legacy items? Are these the same neckbeards who are complaining about how there will be too many legacy items that are going to merge back into blue? Seems like /list is naturally limiting the amount of legacy items! Win!

[Rang]

List system is a socialism pilot program study being performed by the NSA and CIA and you are all the lab rats. They are ironing out the details to apply the /list command to all things in RL.

[Tilien]

So people are holding #1 spot hostage, other neckbeards refusing to help clear PH's and produce more legacy items? Are these the same neckbeards who are complaining about how there will be too many legacy items that are going to merge back into blue? Seems like /list is naturally limiting the amount of legacy items! Win!

Presumably... the people who are most concerned with a Green/Blue merge are the ones who want to dominate the Green economy and failed or were banned from the Blue economy.

[Erati]

List for Ruby BP has to be one of the weirder in-game interactions set up.

All the other List camps are trivial facerolls ( for the most part) and this one actually requires a bit of teamwork. Even at lvl 50 AoF room is not a blind cakewalk for all classes.

[Grakken]

List system is a socialism pilot program study being performed by the NSA and CIA and you are all the lab rats. They are ironing out the details to apply the /list command to all things in RL.

:D

[Gustoo]

Four people are refusing to cooperate to get pixels in an MMO.

The list system isn't broken. The players are.

QFT.

Buncha psychos won't kill a mob to better a rogue and themselves because the rogue can't solo the mob.

If I was the rogue I would call in sick from work for days just to spite you psychopaths.

[bubur]

when it comes to manastone id help to move along if it isnt a bunch of afk'ers

rubi bp and even guise, my lv 50 can die doing if someone messes up the room break. id rather just solo it, which i can do in the off hours when there are 0 list on teal

not sure how it is on green tho. just join a guild and ask them to help if you're in the same position as this rogue. its your own risk if you want to sit on /list at spot #1 and no one wants to put their neck out for spot 2 or 3. i also dont think he should be bullied off of spot #1, but that's the empasse

the only solution, as always, is to log out

[Tilien]

the only solution, as always, is to log out

This was always the solution to any problem in EQ, but few people take that option and most make the mistake of logging back on.

[Jack N]

Heaven forbid we have the requirement that someone claiming a camp actually be able to hold it. Maybe I can sit outside of Lguk Lord room on my solo hidden rogue and claim the camp until someone else comes along and clears it, then claim they KSed me.

[Tilien]

Heaven forbid we have the requirement that someone claiming a camp actually be able to hold it. Maybe I can sit outside of Lguk Lord room on my solo hidden rogue and claim the camp until someone else comes along and clears it, then claim they KSed me.

List =/= camp. If someone is camping a room for xp and non list item loot then the listers would technically not be able to kill the room pops unless the campers lost the room.

Hence why you could charm the list mob to use as a pet to farm the non list mobs in or near the camp if it isn't being cleared. If anyone killed it during a charm break they'd be ksing you, even if you're not on the list.

[Grakken]

Heaven forbid we have the requirement that someone claiming a camp actually be able to hold it. Maybe I can sit outside of Lguk Lord room on my solo hidden rogue and claim the camp until someone else comes along and clears it, then claim they KSed me.

I agree. But, now you've queued the automated response from people feeling compelled to correct you that list and camps have nothing to do with each other. Its the most eye rolling clarification.

[Jack N]

List =/= camp. If someone is camping a room for xp and non list item loot then the listers would technically not be able to kill the room pops unless the campers lost the room.

Hence why you could charm the list mob to use as a pet to farm the non list mobs in or near the camp if it isn't being cleared. If anyone killed it during a charm break they'd be ksing you, even if you're not on the list.

That is your convenient interpretation.

[Deckk]

So if you play a class that can't solo him, that can use the BP, you shouldn't have a shot at it... But the person who plays a class that can't use the BP, but can solo it, should?

I fully admit that reading is hard and I could have missed something... or maybe the OP is a shaman or something like that!

[Tilien]

So if you play a class that can't solo him, that can use the BP, you shouldn't have a shot at it... But the person who plays a class that can't use the BP, but can solo it, should?

I fully admit that reading is hard and I could have missed something... or maybe the OP is a shaman or something like that!

Everyone can use it in the EC tunnel in 2 years.

[Chocolope]

You have 3 options:

A) Wait 40 hours for an item nonafk.
B) Wait 40 hours for an item nonafk.
C) Not wait for an item.


You're okay with A and C but not B. Got it.

Option
D) Afk with them and watch a show!

[Jack N]

If you can't solo it and want a BP, come with a friend or two who also want a BP and /list together.

[Tenderizer]

List for Ruby BP has to be one of the weirder in-game interactions set up.


as it sits now it seems like groups of friends go down and random the bp mostly so the original game mechanic seems to work better for that camp. let the hostage go!

[Deckk]

If you can't solo it and want a BP, come with a friend or two who also want a BP and /list together.

I'd say that the classes that can use it have more right to it than those that don't.

But, having said that, I think taking this off of the list system is probably a better choice. Whoever holds the camp can decide on need vs. greed.

[Grakken]

List =/= camp. If someone is camping a room for xp and non list item loot then the listers would technically not be able to kill the room pops unless the campers lost the room.

Hence why you could charm the list mob to use as a pet to farm the non list mobs in or near the camp if it isn't being cleared. If anyone killed it during a charm break they'd be ksing you, even if you're not on the list.


Real talk. You form a group to XP at Ass\Sup. No one in your group needs guise. There is a list of two people sitting there doing nothing. You group's enchanter charms Assassin to use as a monster rogue pet.

List 1 petitions the situation. Do you think a GM isn't going to stop them from doing this? And if they do, doesn't that mean that list IS the camp?

[Chocolope]

Real talk. You form a group to XP at Ass\Sup. No one in your group needs guise. There is a list of two people sitting there doing nothing. You group's enchanter charms Assassin to use as a monster rogue pet.

List 1 petitions the situation. Do you think a GM isn't going to stop them from doing this? And if they do, doesn't that mean that list IS the camp?

Working as designed. List is list, FTE rules apply to the camp if they sitting there not engaging for extended duration, charm away. I hope this happens.

[Jack N]

I agree that a group can better determine how to distribute the BP, however, the issue is more that some groups of people will attempt to hold such a camp in permanence with rotating shifts of people. I would say we should remove Rubi BP camp from /list if we can solve that issue.

[Tilien]

Real talk. You form a group to XP at Ass\Sup. No one in your group needs guise. There is a list of two people sitting there doing nothing. You group's enchanter charms Assassin to use as a monster rogue pet.

List 1 petitions the situation. Do you think a GM isn't going to stop them from doing this? And if they do, doesn't that mean that list IS the camp?

If they aren't engaging the monsters they aren't camping the spawn. If they aren't camping the spawn, I can.

If list=camp this has wild implications for camp rules. Like... I'm camping the Ghoul Magi right now. No, I'm not AT the Ghoul Magi, so please report whoever is KSing me.

Edit: Further, does this mean if I hit the #1 spot the charm farming becomes valid in your mind?

[Grakken]

If they aren't engaging the monsters they aren't camping the spawn. If they aren't camping the spawn, I can.

If list=camp this has wild implications for camp rules. Like... I'm camping the Ghoul Magi right now. No, I'm not AT the Ghoul Magi, so please report whoever is KSing me.

Edit: Further, does this mean if I hit the #1 spot the charm farming becomes valid in your mind?

You say you can; but, there is no way a GM is going to let you charm a ghoul assassin while there is a list. Which means I don't think you can.

Don't know what you mean with Magi, he isn't a list mob? But the point I THINK you're trying to make is - given my assertion that list=camp - people can't ks a mob you are listing? I think there is a lot of gray area that has been created by the list system. The scenario I think is going to happen in a month is ass\sup is going to become a complete free for all. You will have 8 level 50s in the room, as soon as mobs spawn they are going to obliterate them. Doesn't matter that there is a group trying to do ass\sup. And those 50's are gonna be killing assassin and supplier. Any 50 could waltz in and under the guise (get it) of /list KS assassin and supplier.

[Tilien]

You say you can; but, there is no way a GM is going to let you charm a ghoul assassin while there is a list. Which means I don't think you can.

Don't know what you mean with Magi, he isn't a list mob? But the point I THINK you're trying to make is - given my assertion that list=camp - people can't ks a mob you are listing? I think there is a lot of gray area that has been created by the list system. The scenario I think is going to happen in a month is ass\sup is going to become a complete free for all. You will have 8 level 50s in the room, as soon as mobs spawn they are going to obliterate them. Doesn't matter that there is a group trying to do ass\sup. And those 50's are gonna be killing assassin and supplier. Any 50 could waltz in and under the guise (get it) of /list KS assassin and supplier.

The point is that if the list is a camp I can camp mobs without proximity to them OR clearing them.. such as the random Ghoul Magi I mentioned. And I would agree that if the /listers are clearing the mobs there is no way you can even argue you can take the mob as a camp, but from posts there seem to be a lot of times this doesn't happen.

The same GM who forces you to release the charm pet will essentially be validating that you can hold a camp without clearing mobs... sure /list makes it "special", but this is a very bad precedent to set.

[bubur]

community: muh we need more rules

staff:
https://i.imgur.com/Tsq8Nza.jpg

[Jack N]

I'd like to believe this would already be addressed if it wasn't an issue of changing source.

[Grakken]

The point is that if the list is a camp I can camp mobs without proximity to them OR clearing them.. such as the random Ghoul Magi I mentioned.

/list mandates proximity. The issue is it doesn't mandate clearing them. If list = camp, camp rules already covers the problem.

[Tilien]

/list mandates proximity. The issue is it doesn't mandate clearing them. If list = camp, camp rules already covers the problem.

/List allows me to zone. Camp rules do not.

/List allows me to not clear. Camp rules do not.

[Frug]

I already left the camp i dont give a fuck about this shit.

It shows.

[Grakken]

/List allows me to zone. Camp rules do not.
For a brief period of time. Timer makes this not much different.

/List allows me to not clear. Camp rules do not.

Yup, this is my whole point. If /list = camp, they must clear and these issues go away. If /list !=camp, we need more rules.

[Tilien]

For a brief period of time. Timer makes this not much different.



Yup, this is my whole point. If /list = camp, they must clear and these issues go away. If /list !=camp, we need more rules.

I mean being able to be trained out of zone then reclaim your camp is very different than camp rules currently work. I'll make a chanter and in a few weeks see what the GMs rule.

[lituviel]

*getting pop corn*

Laughting hard at all the threads with people complaining about /list system.

[jacob54311]

In the old days, when you were on the list for a camp, you couldn't go AFK for long stretches of time, right?

I think the /list command, with its AFK checks, is just automating how the old lists worked, when players were enforcing it amongst themselves.

Is this correct? If so, I think there's little chance of convincing them to change it the way people are suggesting.

[Man0warr]

The main thing /list is doing is prevent groups or guilds of players from completely locking down legacy items for financial reasons - that's what the GMs wanted to stop. It's a way to do so without GMs having to be involved, otherwise they would be getting non stop petitions.

If you weren't around for Kunark launch, some guilds did this for weeks/months on certain mobs that had drops for access to zones like Howling Stones and VP.

[deadlycupcakez]

my fave part is these beards truly think if /list wasn't in effect they would have a shot in HELL to get any legacy item... thats the biggest joke here. They want the list but only when it eliminates even more people from blocking THEM from getting THEIR item that THEY deserve

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Should implement something to where if the PH isn't dead within 30 mins or so of spawn everyone on list gets deathtouched with 5 min lockout on re joining list. It is pretty dumb people can hold a spot captive like that just because they're high enough level even if they can't solo it.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

To be serious though, I really do think that if enough time has passed (1 hour I think is more appropriate) then the person in #1 should be kicked off the list.

The idea of the list was to cut down on CSR time, it was not implemented to help people get charity pixels. It was to ensure that the person who was holding the camp first (and of course someone who is holding a camp needs to be able to I dunno... HOLD THE CAMP!!!) doesn't get bullied out of the camp or KS'ed.

You can't kill a level 30-36 wizard mob as a level 35 cleric? Well then too bad, get some levels and come back. Why does the implementation of a list all of a sudden entitle you to that camp that you can't camp!?!?

[Cen]

If you only kick off number 1 you will make this problem worse. Instead, 1 month lockout everyone whos been on list for more then twice the spawn timer if it isnt killed. This will incentive only people who can actually kill it Bam

[Nirgon]

Would definitely train these people

[Grakken]

To be serious though, I really do think that if enough time has passed (1 hour I think is more appropriate) then the person in #1 should be kicked off the list.

The idea of the list was to cut down on CSR time, it was not implemented to help people get charity pixels. It was to ensure that the person who was holding the camp first (and of course someone who is holding a camp needs to be able to I dunno... HOLD THE CAMP!!!) doesn't get bullied out of the camp or KS'ed.

You can't kill a level 30-36 wizard mob as a level 35 cleric? Well then too bad, get some levels and come back. Why does the implementation of a list all of a sudden entitle you to that camp that you can't camp!?!?

This.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Would definitely train these people

aint got time to farm someone a 20 hour item while they are afk just to start farming mine.


willing to spend time in the sewer everytime.

[Widan]

Charm kos mob > cast see invis on mob > break charm > root next to rogue > memblur yourself off aggro list > mob attacks rogue

[Phaezed-Reality]

Charm kos mob > cast see invis on mob > break charm > root next to rogue > memblur yourself off aggro list > mob attacks rogue

https://i.imgur.com/pzDCxnt.jpg

[Fammaden]

See invis'ing a mob doesn't let them see hide AFAIK. Only very specific mobs will see a rogue.

[uygi]

See invis'ing a mob doesn't let them see hide AFAIK. Only very specific mobs will see a rogue.

Ghoul assassin is one of them though, that could be funny...

[Widan]

See invis'ing a mob doesn't let them see hide AFAIK. Only very specific mobs will see a rogue.

Ok, find a mob that has some aoe spell on their spell list and stand next to the rogue instead? You gotta improvise I'm sure there is some way to kill a rogue.

[PabloEdvardo]

I got my stone by helping with every pop, keeping people buffed, keeping timers.

Then you have guys like this:

https://i.imgur.com/ZDRCOaj.png

https://i.imgur.com/y3Y2ruJ.png

So you have people who are too low to camp it, AFKing and answering /list afk checks, but not grouping together to actually kill it themselves.

...and you have people joining list, refusing to help, who if they WERE helping, then everyone in the camp could participate.

The people who end up holding it hostage are likely getting bitter from people not helping, and then they refuse to help as well.

It's a positive feedback loop where the toxicity just increases over and over again until no-one is killing anything and no-one is cooperating and nothing is dropping.

[Tethler]

Really should have list cleared with like a several hour lockout if people are listing and leaving the spawn up for an extended period.

[NeilYo]

Anyone that has a problem with the /list system in any way is either:

A) a member of a loot cartel that wants a monopoly on all of the items

Or

B) completely delusional and thinks they could actually get one of these items without the list function.

Please stop crying and shave your necks,

/thread.

[stewe]

I say let them cry about it, when i join the list and am not in the group for the item i just put all my socials in my hidden chatbox so they can cry all they want and i dont see a single ooc, tell, shout, etc.

[Legidias]

People still complaining about list when they dont realize that without it, manastone would be only looted by the same 5 people over and over again

[Cuktus]

So, I was on the Jboots list for 23 hours this weekend. I started at number 4 on the list. One person in front of me missed an afk check so I moved to position 3. I then saw 2 drops for folks and I became number 1. This took 9hours 40min. While I was number 2, the number 1 person could not solo the camp but I helped out (a long with other people) to get that person their list item. It can be said that, had we refused and the person quit the list, I would have gotten my boots. But that isn't how RNG works. I saw 2 boots in 10 hour, then 0 boots in 13. Had I, and the others at the camp, tried to bully the person off the list and they didn't get bullied, we would have seen 0 boots in 23 hours. Because that IS how not killing something works.

List is not perfect, but its the system we have. Stop trying to enforce your morals on the list and just kill the damn thing.

[nectarprime]

So, I was on the Jboots list for 23 hours this weekend. I started at number 4 on the list. One person in front of me missed an afk check so I moved to position 3. I then saw 2 drops for folks and I became number 1. This took 9hours 40min. While I was number 2, the number 1 person could not solo the camp but I helped out (a long with other people) to get that person their list item. It can be said that, had we refused and the person quit the list, I would have gotten my boots. But that isn't how RNG works. I saw 2 boots in 10 hour, then 0 boots in 13. Had I, and the others at the camp, tried to bully the person off the list and they didn't get bullied, we would have seen 0 boots in 23 hours. Because that IS how not killing something works.

List is not perfect, but its the system we have. Stop trying to enforce your morals on the list and just kill the damn thing.

This is the correct answer.

[bubur]

If we're all helping each other out I'm always cool with it

It's a random 35 rogue that sneaks in and waits out of sight without contributing that I would leave behind. But we all have our lines. Luckily my hypothetical is imaginary. It didn't happen to me, so I can't complain yet

[Grakken]

Stop trying to enforce your morals on the list and just kill the damn thing.

Stop enforcing your morals, use mine instead!

[Modwolf]

So, I was on the Jboots list for 23 hours this weekend. I started at number 4 on the list. One person in front of me missed an afk check so I moved to position 3. I then saw 2 drops for folks and I became number 1. This took 9hours 40min. While I was number 2, the number 1 person could not solo the camp but I helped out (a long with other people) to get that person their list item. It can be said that, had we refused and the person quit the list, I would have gotten my boots. But that isn't how RNG works. I saw 2 boots in 10 hour, then 0 boots in 13. Had I, and the others at the camp, tried to bully the person off the list and they didn't get bullied, we would have seen 0 boots in 23 hours. Because that IS how not killing something works.

List is not perfect, but its the system we have. Stop trying to enforce your morals on the list and just kill the damn thing.

[Nirgon]

Oh yeah let me just camp items for 4 other people for 20 consecutive hours that can't kill the mob. I love helpin out!

Really should have list cleared with like a several hour lockout if people are listing and leaving the spawn up for an extended period.

[Phaezed-Reality]

See invis'ing a mob doesn't let them see hide AFAIK. Only very specific mobs will see a rogue.

Correct and this is why u want to find AE mobs that will break the sneak hide and then transfer agro.


DMO, teaching u guys how to fucking pvp these fucking antonican hand out fucks on blue out of ur 20 hour item camp, while they are AFK or cant even fucking hit the mob.


SO infuriating. Also take it one step further, if you have a "problem" like this, just start pulling AE mobs and killing them, specially in guk or basically anywhere a list is u can find mobs that AE. even if you are trying to avoid breaking the piece of shit afk monks FD/rogues sneak hide thats been sitting there for 16 hours(happened to me, let him sit there thinking i was going to farm his jboots for him and then we made sure to start pulling najena's entire room to drezl when it was almost his turn to afk some more so i could farm his boots for 20+ hours, that solved that) they will get hit with an AE eventually due to how the game works and FUNNY enough alot of these people don't even stay logged in when they start getting AE'd.

THEY CAN STAY HITTING THE AFK CHECK for 20+ hours while fd/hidesneak but cant handle being AE'd by frogs/magicians in najena. yet they deserve i carve them out a list item that potentially takes 20 hours, just to get?


All of you assholes can get fucked, Personally i have faith in humanity and the server staff, I play by a strict "don't be a dick" policy, not exactly the PNP rules. i know i know, follow the rules, however i find following the dont be a dick policy makes for a whole lot better social experience on Everquest than engaging people over PNP. i much rather share a camp and talk to them and eq and other stuff while rotating mobs for instance.

That said. WHEN I SEE A DICK AFKING 20 hours EXPECTING ME TO FARM HIS THEN PUT MY 20 HOURS IN AFTER THAT, U CAN GET FUCKED RIGHT UNDER THE QEYNOS DOCKS.

[Grakken]

Oh yeah let me just camp items for 4 other people for 20 consecutive hours that can't kill the mob. I love helpin out!

This.

[PabloEdvardo]

This.

Or maybe those people that "can't even kill it" can kill it when they work together, but one person on the list refuses to help "because they can solo it, so fuck the rest"

The lists are 25/35+ for a reason, because you can actually do the content if you group together. You know, like what the game encourages.

Every single toxic shitlord I've seen at a /list camp so far is someone who can either FD or who can solo the mob. Once they have a method of getting what they want on their own, their sense of community / helping out goes completely out the window and they view everyone else as "in their way".

I've seen people actively work together to get higher #s killed just so they can get their chance faster -- and this is against people who were in the group for 20+ hours, helping everyone else until they got their chance.

The selfishness is unrelenting.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Or maybe those people that "can't even kill it" can kill it when they work together, but one person on the list refuses to help "because they can solo it, so fuck the rest"

The lists are 25/35+ for a reason, because you can actually do the content if you group together. You know, like what the game encourages.

Every single toxic shitlord I've seen at a /list camp so far is someone who can either FD or who can solo the mob. Once they have a method of getting what they want on their own, their sense of community / helping out goes completely out the window and they view everyone else as "in their way".

I've seen people actively work together to get higher #s killed just so they can get their chance faster -- and this is against people who were in the group for 20+ hours, helping everyone else until they got their chance.

The selfishness is unrelenting.

there is a difference between working together and people literally afking expecting you to kill a mob for you while they afk...... dont conflate the too. Also the people who do this can kill the mob, and still afk wait for u to farm their item. If you have not ran into this, you have not listed. This is a huge ongoing problem. It makes me sick honestly.

edit: you know how many lists i been on while we all work together to kill the mob, so the afk guy can get his item? fuck that bullshit.

[Grakken]

Or maybe those people that "can't even kill it" can kill it when they work together

I am all for this. Give list 1 an hour to form a group to kill it. Seems like we agree.

[Erati]

time limit is bad idea, gives more power to everyone but #1

really just need to allow for PNP to call for List camps to have an expectation of helping one another without mandating it

[Daldaen]

List should change to be ordered based on aggregate number of PHers or Named mob kills participated in. Rather than time sitting staring at a box.

[Erati]

List should change to be ordered based on aggregate number of PHers or Named mob kills participated in. Rather than time sitting staring at a box.

ooooooo

good idea here, it would feel much more classic this way

[Phaezed-Reality]

Anyone advocating for this to be ok, can get fucking pox'd straight to fay, and should probably gate, perm.

https://i.imgur.com/57Wi805.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/a7d1xZQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cnEFQNc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2zzYKhp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/miJ4wAh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Zz8w4h6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BXkeHif.jpg

edit: look at time stamps, i only took them for like 12 hours, not the entire time. And yes, he did not move the entire time. Sorry but i do not have time to farm your afk green server character items while you play on teal. And i will fuck you up like flippy darkpaw fucked your mom. yours truly - Brother Ramal

[PabloEdvardo]

I am all for this. Give list 1 an hour to form a group to kill it. Seems like we agree.

Not exactly -- the people grouped to kill it are the people on the /list

If you join /list and think just because you can solo it, you don't have to participate in helping people above you kill it, you're a shit lord.

There's plenty of excuses you can make, but it's still shit lord behavior.

People think the /list is a "sign up, line up, come get your soloable item"

but it was supposed to be a way to enforce keeping order among people camping it

The fact that it's easy to abuse once you can FD or solo it, is a result of player selfishness. Every name I've seen sit afk and bitch about "I can solo it so fuck you I'm not helping you get yours" goes on my permanent shit list.

[Grakken]

time limit is bad idea, gives more power to everyone but #1


Its just like any other camp in EQ, you must bring sufficient force to actually do the content.


really just need to allow for PNP to call for List camps to have an expectation of helping one another without mandating it

Feels rapey to me. Entitlement, like this scary. Don't know how a rule creates an expectation w/o mandating it. Its one or the other.

On a totally unrelated note, WTB PL to 35 for my new Halfling RP Rogue MakeGukGreatAgain. He has a belief system in non violence to Frogloks. He has plans to create a non-violent protest for slaying frogloks. During his entire List experience, he will actively plead with you to stop your genocide.

[Nirgon]

If #1 doesn't engage the mob within 10 minutes just PvP flag them and I'll take care of that lvl 35 human ranger ez

[Grakken]

Anyone advocating for this to be ok, can get fucking pox'd straight to fay, and should probably gate, perm.

edit: look at time stamps, i only took them for like 12 hours, not the entire time. And yes, he did not move the entire time. Sorry but i do not have time to farm your afk green server character items while you play on teal. And i will fuck you up like flippy darkpaw fucked your mom. yours truly - Brother Ramal

If he is list 1. This is deplorable.
If he is list 2-X, I don't care.

[Phaezed-Reality]

If he is list 1. This is deplorable.
If he is list 2-X, I don't care.


1: it is
2: its fine, until they are about to take #1 and u realize its a 20 hour farm for someone afk

[Nirgon]

I know PVP is gonna be frowned upon cuz of elf egos (you slew muh elf, im not inferior, im mad!)

So I think a week in the hotbox of Abukar should suffice for such an intentional offense.

[PabloEdvardo]

Its just like any other camp in EQ, you must bring sufficient force to actually do the content.

People do attempt to bring sufficient force.

The difference is that prior to /list, that group of people were all capable of getting the item (they would /rand)

With /list, you aren't going to get people to come help you camp a 20+ hour camp when they cannot participate.

Thus, the group of people helping kill it in theory should be /list members

It's tough to get people to come help, when there are 2 or 3 people afk and NOT helping, forcing anyone who comes to help to get /list'd below them.

Whenever everyone is participating it moves smoothly with no drama. It's 100% always the selfish people who choose not to participate that break the system.

[Grakken]

If you join /list and think just because you can solo it, you don't have to participate in helping people above you kill it, you're a shit lord.

There's plenty of excuses you can make, but it's still shit lord behavior.


Pre List
RULEs: You don't have to help people farm named mobs while you wait for a camp.
Community: You don't have to help people farm named mobs while you wait for a camp.

Post List
Rules: You don't have to help people farm named mobs while you wait for a camp.
Community: If you don't spend 40 hours farming welfare pixels to people who can't get a group to farm the named, you're a garbage human being and everyone hates you.

Me: Surprised pikachu face.

[Evets]

Make it No Drop. Or make it one loot per character. Either way problem solved.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

People think the /list is a "sign up, line up, come get your soloable item"

but it was supposed to be a way to enforce keeping order among people camping it


Look at this shithead.

How do you think camps work in EQ? Are you even familiar with this game? The list was created to minimize CSR work surrounding these shitshow legacy item camps.

Period.

The list was not created to force people to group together to camp rare items for players who normally wouldn't be able to hold the camp.

The list system is broken because Rogean surprisingly did not anticipate the depths that the neckbeards of P99 are willing to sink to.

If people show up to /list for an item and find a rogue or whatever just sitting there with all the mobs up then the rogue should be removed from the list. There is no way in hell that it makes any sense for the newcomers to have to farm the item for the rogue just because he was there first.

If the list was not in place and this same scenario took place, the rogue would lose his "camp" because he wasn't actually camping anything. The list needs to be tweaked for sure.

Now, if I showed up to a /list camp and there was some stranger just sitting there waiting for me to kill the PH for them because they can't do it themself? I would just leave or log out. I wouldn't care enough to try to wait them out but I certainly wouldn't camp the item for them. Here's another thing too: I would never even consider showing up to a /list camp if I was not capable of soloing it. It would never cross my mind to just go to a /list camp and wait for people to show up and clear it for me. I think that is much more despicable behavior than the people who refuse to help them to keep the list moving.

There is a huge difference from live back in classic and P99 now. The difference is that there is a massive amount of entitlement NOW. Funny since I would think that people would have been more entitled back when they were paying a monthly subscription.

The whining will continue no matter what happens but I would like to see some fair changes made to the list system to cut down on the amount of leeches who think they can just show up and /AFK their way to a legacy item.

[cobaltblack]

looking forward to the PVP enabled classic timeline server PINK99

All these problems won't exist on pink99.

[Purplefluffy]

Four people are refusing to cooperate to get pixels in an MMO.

The list system isn't broken. The players are.

:)

[Gelric]

Maybe Staff should require that you are in a group and that you engage the mob. If you are not in the group or you do not engage you are removed from the list and cannot loot the item and the item poofs.

Just because a class is not designed to solo doesn't mean they should not be able to get the item. Being a druid I rarely group but if I want an item I should do what it takes to get it.

Being lazy or selfish is a choice that can be remedied with a few changes and penalties.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Just because a class is not designed to solo doesn't mean they should not be able to get the item. Being a druid I rarely group but if I want an item I should do what it takes to get it.



Just because rogues aren't designed to cast snares and AOE nukes doesn't mean they should not be able to quad kite!!!

Just because bards don't get double attack doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to quad hit!

Just because druids don't get complete heal doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to complete heal!

This mentality of entitlement must come from WoW players. Absolutely ridiculous. I think you need to complain to the original EQ devs, not the P99 staff for creating a list so that they can try to minimize their interactions with idiots who cannot come to an agreement.

[Jorgam]

feel the bern. bless socialism.

Underrated Post right here!

Real life political lessons should be being learned at these camps if people have the sense to recognize what is happening.

[this user was banned]

Just because rogues aren't designed to cast snares and AOE nukes doesn't mean they should not be able to quad kite!!!

Just because bards don't get double attack doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to quad hit!

Just because druids don't get complete heal doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to complete heal!

This mentality of entitlement must come from WoW players. Absolutely ridiculous. I think you need to complain to the original EQ devs, not the P99 staff for creating a list so that they can try to minimize their interactions with idiots who cannot come to an agreement.

But rogues CAN quad kite with SOW pots and Red Wood Wands. EZ

For fucks sake we didn't need a /list for the thex dagger quest. All the smelly asslings lined up in an orderly manner.

[Sporkotron]

Underrated Post right here!

Real life political lessons should be being learned at these camps if people have the sense to recognize what is happening.

What? That with no government interference you’d have a small handful of people hoarding all the resources to themselves. So you need to do something and sometimes whatever the first thing you try isn’t fully thought out so you need to take a few stabs at it?

[lituviel]

Look at this shithead.

......

If people show up to /list for an item and find a rogue or whatever just sitting there with all the mobs up then the rogue should be removed from the list. There is no way in hell that it makes any sense for the newcomers to have to farm the item for the rogue just because he was there first.

If the list was not in place and this same scenario took place, the rogue would lose his "camp" because he wasn't actually camping anything. The list needs to be tweaked for sure.

Now, if I showed up to a /list camp and there was some stranger just sitting there waiting for me to kill the PH for them because they can't do it themself? I would just leave or log out. I wouldn't care enough to try to wait them out but I certainly wouldn't camp the item for them.

Do what I say but not what I do.



You guys are assholes for not helping him and keeping the line moving.

Or are you just insulting people for free there ?

[winter888]

If the player at the top of the list is unable to hold the camp solo, or is unable to requisition the help necessary to clear it, they should lose their spot.

Give the list #1 two minutes to engage the mob and if they don't, they're cut.

your way is far more STRICT. i think giving the help to the 1st on list is fine ,but there should be some limit. for example ,if the 1st on list is grouping with others on list to kill the PH/named, then there should implement some machenism like when 10 round ph/named passed, the first one should be removed. this give the 2nd 3rd and so on some motive to help 1st.

if the 1st dont want to group with other on list ,he'll be removed after the ph/named poped for designative times.

or make the lowest lvl to enter the list to lvl50. as someone proposed.

[Donkey Hotay]

Underrated Post right here!

Real life political lessons should be being learned at these camps if people have the sense to recognize what is happening.

What?

I'm only guessing at what he meant but the situation we have here is analogous to welfare. A working citizen, in this analogy the player capable of clearing PHs, is unfairly taxed to support others who cannot or will not work. In reality, the productive citizen chooses to accept this yoke because he can still gain benefits in excess of the taxation. In this game however, the analogy results in a different outcome because the capable players cannot accept having to support others in order to gain what they want.

Amusingly, this probably results from the capable players in the game being, in reality, welfare recipients who are unable to function under the same burden that they place upon society.

[Kirrund]

Look at this shithead.


Now, if I showed up to a /list camp and there was some stranger just sitting there waiting for me to kill the PH for them because they can't do it themself? I would just leave or log out. I wouldn't care enough to try to wait them out but I certainly wouldn't camp the item for them. Here's another thing too: I would never even consider showing up to a /list camp if I was not capable of soloing it. It would never cross my mind to just go to a /list camp and wait for people to show up and clear it for me. I think that is much more despicable behavior than the people who refuse to help them to keep the list moving.

There is a huge difference from live back in classic and P99 now. The difference is that there is a massive amount of entitlement NOW. Funny since I would think that people would have been more entitled back when they were paying a monthly subscription.

The whining will continue no matter what happens but I would like to see some fair changes made to the list system to cut down on the amount of leeches who think they can just show up and /AFK their way to a legacy item.

So while I sort of agree with you on some parts, like not showing up to a list and being the only one there, afk, and expecting other people to just tag along and do it for you I think the list system currently probably creates less problems than if we didn't have it. The other side of the spectrum is people monopolizing it and also doing whatever they can to bully others off it (which is also currently what has been tried a few times).

But I think you're wrong compared to classic, and I think the word "entitlement" gets thrown around way too often because it's one of the most recent buzzwords everyone likes to use when it comes to describing anyone who wants to promote a sense of working together. The game was designed to be a community game with a heavy sense on helping people out and grouping together. I think it is disingenuous of you to try to argue that in Classic there wasn't a greater sense of community and a greater sense of both generosity and general working together. Yes, there were ninja looters, and there were people who stole guild banks, and there were people who bucked the trend, but from my experience people were more apt to work together and generally try to come to a reasonable solution. I played on two different servers in the 99 and 2000 era, then again shortly for 2001. Note that my definition of "working together" means everyone is contributing, not one person doing all of the work and another person doing nothing.

I think that it is pretty clear that the intent of the list was that people would be grouped and working together, that there would be a permanent group for these items, not that they would all be afk waiting on their time to solo. Instead, this is just what it has been perverted into by people who only care about themselves, because, as always, their time is more important than anyone else's.

If a person shows up to the list at the appropriate level, and is in good faith helping everyone out and making things go faster, they have put in their good faith effort, played nice, been a team player, why shouldn't they also receive some help on the back end when it's their turn? Do you think that their good behavior effort should not be rewarded by the same courtesy and respect? Do you think that's entitlement? Do you think this behavior, of putting in time and effort, and helping other people, is a negative thing? Or would you rather, on the opposite end, just have a list of people soloing something; perhaps the entire game could just be about soloing, and there would be no sense of community at all, because, after all, if you want something you need to get it yourself and not ask for anyone else to help, because they won't. The latter is an extreme, sure, but I think that calling entitlement on players who are in good faith doing their part and helping is also an extreme. The real extreme on that end would be someone sitting there doing absolutely nothing, waiting to loot.

As an addition, I guess to expect this, you would have to expect that everyone is always helping, and always working together and contributing, instead of one asshat holding things hostage and doing absolutely nothing. By the same token, you would have to expect that someone wouldn't just refuse to group in an attempt to try to fuck over the person ahead of them, if perhaps that person is a class that couldn't solo very well, or maybe had trouble sometimes depending on resists or RNG.

Personally, I treat everyone in game that I meet with the most courtesy and respect that I can, and I am more than willing to help out on a lot of things. I do not treat people like total strangers, because this is a small community and you never know when you will make a new friend, a new acquaintance, or something else. It's a 20 year old game after all, and I am here to relive a sense of community and nostalgia and do some things I never got to do. I can respect if that's not the reason you, or someone else plays, but I would think that the least we could expect from each other would be courtesy and kindness. Surely you agree.

I know this is long winded and I wasn't specifically trying to call you out or anything. I think you have been pretty vocal about the list in different threads, and that's great. Like I said, I agree with some of your points, but I wanted to ask you that above question.

When it comes to the rules, a lot of people like to argue about what they can do, instead of what they should do. After all, it is called the Play Nice Policy because that is the intent, not because they just thought up an arbitrary name for a set of rules. Seems obvious, I feel like a hell of a lot of people miss this, intentionally so.

[PabloEdvardo]

I think that it is pretty clear that the intent of the list was that people would be grouped and working together, that there would be a permanent group for these items, not that they would all be afk waiting on their time to solo. Instead, this is just what it has been perverted into by people who only care about themselves, because, as always, their time is more important than anyone else's.


thank you -- this is a nicely distilled version of what I was saying

[Legidias]

Daily reminder that list system isn't in place for you to get loot, it's to prevent the same 5 neckbeards from holding camp 24/7/31/365 and hoarding the loot, as happened on blue.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Daily reminder that list system isn't in place for you to get loot, it's to prevent the same 5 neckbeards from holding camp 24/7/31/365 and hoarding the loot, as happened on blue.

please refer to my post with pictures, where i show u the same 5 people are still dominating the camp using the list rules by having a FD class and just clicking the afk checks, they level them to the level cap, cant do shit but stick themselves ahead, they never contribute and they keep rinse repeating.


How many have u tried listing before? and i mean completing a list. just got done with a 26 hour list. had 1 of these "issyas" i had to take care of before i got #1.


edit: these people have clerics set up at the list spots, waiting for the grp to wipe, if they die they rez themselves back and noone else. you can tell exactly who it is if you watch long enough, its the same cleric but different FD classes. its actually really disgusting. Any staff member that sits at guise longer than 3 hours/any wipe. will see what goes on. i sat there 4 days /unlisted checking to see if it was still going on. yup it is.

[Kirrund]

please refer to my post with pictures, where i show u the same 5 people are still dominating the camp using the list rules by having a FD class and just clicking the afk checks, they level them to the level cap, cant do shit but stick themselves ahead, they never contribute and they keep rinse repeating.


How many have u tried listing before? and i mean completing a list. just got done with a 26 hour list. had 1 of these "issyas" i had to take care of before i got #1.


edit: these people have clerics set up at the list spots, waiting for the grp to wipe, if they die they rez themselves back and noone else. you can tell exactly who it is if you watch long enough, its the same cleric but different FD classes. its actually really disgusting. Any staff member that sits at guise longer than 3 hours/any wipe. will see what goes on. i sat there 4 days /unlisted checking to see if it was still going on. yup it is.

These people should be banned. If the list system is in place to reduce CSR load, banning scummy players like this will save wayyy more CSR/guide time in the long run from the problems they will undoubtedly cause.

[Phaezed-Reality]

These people should be banned. If the list system is in place to reduce CSR load, banning scummy players like this will save wayyy more CSR/guide time in the long run from the problems they will undoubtedly cause.

been asking to be a staff member for 10 years.

[Grakken]

I think that it is pretty clear that the intent of the list was that people would be grouped and working together, that there would be a permanent group for these items, not that they would all be afk waiting on their time to solo.

The intent was to give everyone a chance, and not let a group of neckbeards monopolize it till its gone.

The problem is before the list, this group you speak of would /random for the drop. Everyone getting a shot at it. Now there is an order. I don't feel like I am in a group of adventurers working toward a common goal. I feel like I am farming something for a stranger. If it were 5 minutes I would brush off this frustration and move on with life. But it is 12 hours per drop. I'm not willing to spend 12 hours on a stranger. That's a rational position. I also don't expect a stranger to spend 12 hours serving me.

[Phaezed-Reality]

see the thing is, that same group is still dominating it, by keeping a FD class afk checking and then waiting for the group to all die and then assuming #1 after they cant return to their spawn.

I have no solutions. this is all fucked lol.

[Grakken]

see the thing is, that same group is still dominating it, by keeping a FD class afk checking and then waiting for the group to all die and then assuming #1 after they cant return to their spawn.

I have no solutions. this is all fucked lol.

And this goes back to my point on a prior thread. Why is the group dieing? Is it maybe because there are too many underleveled entitled players trying to get their welfare pixels? They may super duper wanna participate, but they just aren't strong enough.

Make all the /list required level 50. You can go as a group at any level and farm your item and /random in whatever group is capable. If you want to assert your place in a line, you need to be more than capable, Hence level 50.

[unleashedd]

list system, whether good or bad, is what we have. if #1 wants to afk, thats fine, but if its just me at #2 and him at #1, neither one of us is getting it. so i would just leave. as should you.

the argument that youre not gonna farm some afker anything - i play cleric. i am semi afk in almost every group since theres nothing to do but heal and med. i also have no affiliation with anyone i group with (they are in fact strangers). they are farming me exp while i afk... right?

[Kirrund]

The intent was to give everyone a chance, and not let a group of neckbeards monopolize it till its gone.

The problem is before the list, this group you speak of would /random for the drop. Everyone getting a shot at it. Now there is an order. I don't feel like I am in a group of adventurers working toward a common goal. I feel like I am farming something for a stranger. If it were 5 minutes I would brush off this frustration and move on with life. But it is 12 hours per drop. I'm not willing to spend 12 hours on a stranger. That's a rational position. I also don't expect a stranger to spend 12 hours serving me.

You've already made it pretty clear in other threads that your stance is anyone not you or in your guild is considered a stranger. Which is a bit ironic considering that someone being in a guild doesn't mean they'll help you if you ask for it, or that they aren't a total dick who doesn't care about you.

I guess the point is, if you act like everyone is a stranger, they always will be. If you instead invest a little time and effort being social, talking to people, and treating others as you would also like to be treated, you will not only create a network of 'non-strangers' (also known as friends), but you will be promoting a better community with your behavior. Which, from reading these forums, is something a good few people probably could use. I think any reasonable individual (yourself included) would not turn down help from a person. You phrase it as 12 hours serving you, but that way of thinking is the flaw from the get go. They're not serving you like some sort of slave. If everyone front and back of the line is pitching in, then it is a joint effort for everyone involved, and also everyone benefits. The list system just highlights a prevailing and underlying sense of selfishness that pervades players, which leads to people twisting and perverting the system to do only just the tiniest modicum of what is necessary, and little else.

Selfishness in and of itself is not an inherently bad thing. A reasonable amount of selfishness is healthy and expected from a preservation standpoint. But pure selfishness and self interest is an extreme that's bad; for example, the total unwillingness to spend a minimal amount of personal time and cost to greatly increased effect for someone else. I'll use your old example in another thread. Being unwilling to SoW a "total stranger" when you aren't busy, if they politely ask you for it. You call entitlement, but it literally costs you a negligible amount of effort to what amounts to a much greater output for them. On the other hand, you have people who are unwilling to do anything at all for themselves, and expect others to do all of the work and carry all of the load. You realize that in both examples, they are two sides of the exact same coin? Entitlement stems from selfishness; the act of being concerned with only caring about yourself, and your own needs. You being unwilling to SoW someone at negligible cost when asked nicely, and the person AFK at #1 on the list have way more in common than you think.

[NeilYo]

Why is this thread still going for more pages? You’re all so delusional and toxic it’s unreal. If you aren’t willing to group with someone that got there before you, then it’s literally your own fault for wasting everyone’s time. someone will come along eventually and group up with list#1 and kill it together, the only person holding time hostage is the one not helping and thinking they had any real chance at the loot otherwise; because, in the end, none of you ever had chance at the loot and you’d have to save up absurd amounts of plat to try to entice the group that owns the monopoly on the item if you didn’t have this list system.

If you guys think waiting 24-40hrs for an item is bad you are so sadly oblivious to what you’d have to go through to get it otherwise.

I hope you all get well soon and stop flaming eachother over shit that none of you ever had a chance at to begin with.

[Bardp1999]

So maybe its because players are not all high enough, but the Guise camp imparticular is not 'perma camped'. It's pretty shitty to get a group together and visit the camp and then whoever can /List fast enough auto wins the camp instead of the group being able to roll on the item.

List system sucks, but the alternative would probably be worse. It would be nice is people could '/list' as a group and roll on the item.

[Phaezed-Reality]

And this goes back to my point on a prior thread. Why is the group dieing? .

in guise case, they are well aware that any pet that gets loose down the ladder warps to lord and pulls a massive train to guise, wiping the grp, then moving the afk monk/fd class to #1 after they are kicked off the list for not being able to return.

The grp can hold it down, it's just when a pet warps, its over.

[Grakken]

You've already made it pretty clear in other threads that your stance is anyone not you or in your guild is considered a stranger. Which is a bit ironic considering that someone being in a guild doesn't mean they'll help you if you ask for it, or that they aren't a total dick who doesn't care about you.

Fake news. Never said it. I'm not guilded. I agree guilds don't mean anything. Every guild has cliques that are always exclusive to their clique.


I guess the point is, if you act like everyone is a stranger, they always will be.

Who said I'm a sad player with no online friends? I've met many people and I can't logon for 5 minutes without getting an invite from someone.



If you instead invest a little time and effort being social, talking to people, and treating others as you would also like to be treated, you will not only create a network of 'non-strangers' (also known as friends), but you will be promoting a better community with your behavior.

I have. Which is why I have perma groups, and spent my entire weekend camping an FBSS for one of these friends. I think a community of people who show up underleveled to a mob and expect others to farm a mob for 10 hours for them are entitled jerks. I don't care that the /list system allows it.



Selfishness in and of itself is not an inherently bad thing. A reasonable amount of selfishness is healthy and expected from a preservation standpoint. But pure selfishness and self interest is an extreme that's bad

I wholeheartedly agree. We just disagree what constitutes "Pure selfishness". I think the lv 35 class unable to contribute at EE is pure selfish. You don't. We disagree, that's okay.

the total unwillingness to spend a minimal amount of personal time and cost to greatly increased effect for someone else. I'll use your old example in another thread. Being unwilling to SoW a "total stranger" when you aren't busy,

Never said the bold part. I have had more than one person flame me (lots of the swears) because I wouldn't sow someone while I was tanking in HHK. I get spammed a lot for SoW. Its not the one person, its the constant supply of entitled lowbies with this same mentality. That's why so many Shaman and druids go /anon. It gets old fast.


if they politely ask you for it. You call entitlement, but it literally costs you a negligible amount of effort to what amounts to a much greater output for them.

That Jeff bezos guy should clearly have to give me 1 million dollars because diminishing marginal utility means group utility is maximized. Same with that cute girl, the sex only costs her 30 seconds (woo self burn) but makes my week. Clearly choice should go out the window.


You being unwilling to SoW someone at negligible cost when asked nicely, and the person AFK at #1 on the list have way more in common than you think.

These have nothing in common. Unless you're talking about the guy asking for SoW and the afk list 1 feeling entitled to me doing the work for them.

I resent the guy who feels entitled to my SoW because he "asked nicely".
I resent the list 1 guy who uses the /list system forcing others to spend 10 hours farming him welfare pixels.


If you guys think waiting 24-40hrs for an item is bad you are so sadly oblivious to what you’d have to go through to get it otherwise.

I've said I'd take the /list system with current warts over no system.


I hope you all get well soon and stop flaming eachother over shit that none of you ever had a chance at to begin with.

I got my Manastone. I leveled fast. I was in group when a manastone dropped and none of us was high enough lv to /list. Lower guk had NOBODY in it most of the time when I got there.

[Phaezed-Reality]

, but the Guise camp imparticular is not 'perma camped'..


just because u see the mobs up, doesn't mean u see the FD class at safe cubby keeping #1 spot(camping it), it is camped. he's just waiting for u to show up and farm his guise while he plays teal and afk's on green for his free pixels. Anyways, im done with this thread. I think people get the picture.

I offer no solutions, only facts. good luck. if you go to guise camp and keep seeing people run up the ladder, or afk fd in safe spot, just leave, specially if you are high on the list, by night time u will not be able to run back down after u wipe due to a pet falling thru the world. and noone able to double ivu, melee's specially running from binds get extra fucked.

[Fammaden]

When item drops, a /ran 1000 is auto generated for all listed players. For the player in position 1, the roll will be weighted with an extra 100 for every hour that player 1 has been on the list. So if he's been there eight hours he rolls 800 - 1000, ten or more hours then number one auto wins.

[Grakken]

So maybe its because players are not all high enough, but the Guise camp imparticular is not 'perma camped'. It's pretty shitty to get a group together and visit the camp and then whoever can /List fast enough auto wins the camp instead of the group being able to roll on the item.

List system sucks, but the alternative would probably be worse. It would be nice is people could '/list' as a group and roll on the item.

I brought this up on an earlier thread. You get a group together to go do guise. The person who runs there the fastest gets the first drop and the 6th guy to get there is just screwed. My solution was same as yours. Group's need to be able to /list. They can /random for it, whoever wins gets the item and the lockout. Let the group "reserve" as many /list slots as they have in the group in the area.

[Man0warr]

just because u see the mobs up, doesn't mean u see the FD class at safe cubby keeping #1 spot(camping it), it is camped. he's just waiting for u to show up and farm his guise while he plays teal and afk's on green for his free pixels. Anyways, im done with this thread. I think people get the picture.

I offer no solutions, only facts. good luck. if you go to guise camp and keep seeing people run up the ladder, or afk fd in safe spot, just leave, specially if you are high on the list, by night time u will not be able to run back down after u wipe due to a pet falling thru the world. and noone able to double ivu, melee's specially running from binds get extra fucked.

So don't use pets?

[Grakken]

When item drops, a /ran 1000 is auto generated for all listed players. For the player in position 1, the roll will be weighted with an extra 100 for every hour that player 1 has been on the list. So if he's been there eight hours he rolls 800 - 1000, ten or more hours then number one auto wins.

That might seem fair and nice to the guy(s) who has been there all day losing /random rolls. But, not fair to the person they invite to replace the last guise looter. in a group list scenario, everyone should have equal roll on every drop.

[Grakken]

just because u see the mobs up, doesn't mean u see the FD class at safe cubby keeping #1 spot(camping it), it is camped. he's just waiting for u to show up and farm his guise while he plays teal and afk's on green for his free pixels. Anyways, im done with this thread. I think people get the picture.

I offer no solutions, only facts. good luck. if you go to guise camp and keep seeing people run up the ladder, or afk fd in safe spot, just leave, specially if you are high on the list, by night time u will not be able to run back down after u wipe due to a pet falling thru the world. and noone able to double ivu, melee's specially running from binds get extra fucked.

Something is going on with Lguk pathing. I've farmed guise with a pet and never had this problem. Last night in AM "Safe Hall" mobs had odd pathing. If the monk FDed a mob, they would go through the world and path up near ritualist. If he stood up, it would aggro everything from there all way down to executioner . Half would come through safe wall, half would come through the wall by AM.

I'm wondering if our group last night didn't train you by accident. We ended up camping in Lord room the pathing was so bad.

[Kirrund]

Fake news. Never said it. I'm not guilded. I agree guilds don't mean anything. Every guild has cliques that are always exclusive to their clique.

Its extremely different. One is a random stranger. Another is a guildmate. I'd spend an entire weekend camping an item for a friend. I won't SoW a stranger.

You did say it. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342015&page=2


Never said the bold part. I have had more than one person flame me (lots of the swears) because I wouldn't sow someone while I was tanking in HHK. I get spammed a lot for SoW. Its not the one person, its the constant supply of entitled lowbies with this same mentality. That's why so many Shaman and druids go /anon. It gets old fast.

Whoever asked you to SoW while tanking is being rude. That's completely different than if you're standing around in the tunnel doing nothing. I am not trying to say that you should ALWAYS do it, because one person can only do so much. There is a thing called compassion fatigue. But the original point was that you said you won't do it. And you were pretty adamant about similar views in other threads, leading me to believe that it isn't just a one off and it's how you actually think.



That Jeff bezos guy should clearly have to give me 1 million dollars because diminishing marginal utility means group utility is maximized. Same with that cute girl, the sex only costs her 30 seconds (woo self burn) but makes my week. Clearly choice should go out the window.

Although I get it's a joke, sharing intimacy with someone is entirely different than what amounts to you walking up to me and asking me for 50 cents for the vending machine, which relatively speaking is nothing more than a soda to me. For you, that coke represents a lifetime free of struggle and the possibility of opportunity not just for yourself, but for many generations, provided you don't squander it by gulping it down immediately. Likewise, a king sitting on his throne may indeed have the choice not to redistribute a minuscule amount of his wealth in order to lessen the strife and detriment of countless others who likely contributed to his massive wealth to begin with. He has that choice. But it's a fact that choice also makes him a selfish asshole. He has to live with that.

In real life, discussions of money and relative wealth is obviously much more complicated and nuanced than either yours or my example, but surely you see the point at its most basic level?

[Phaezed-Reality]

So don't use pets?

ah that would be a great idea, why didn't i think of that. Oh wait people are going to summon there dumb sk pet everytime, and then there are mages that are "pro" and refuse not to use pets.

and lets not forget, these people cant actually hold the camps without pets, we are a mage/necro heavy server.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Something is going on with Lguk pathing. I've farmed guise with a pet and never had this problem. Last night in AM "Safe Hall" mobs had odd pathing. If the monk FDed a mob, they would go through the world and path up near ritualist. If he stood up, it would aggro everything from there all way down to executioner . Half would come through safe wall, half would come through the wall by AM.

I'm wondering if our group last night didn't train you by accident. We ended up camping in Lord room the pathing was so bad.

yea we avoided it, we constantly are checking because we know about the issues with pathing. soon as we see the massive agro msg'd we do our thing. lol. or when we see a pet run thru SH we know to do our thing too. lol. I think the only reason there wasnt even bigger trains is cause we where farming pretty much almost every mob that the peth paths back up to guise to lol.

[Grakken]

You did say it. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342015&page=2

You're taking my words out of context. And even still with them out of context is not even close to what you claim I said.

He said /list is the same as a guild raid. I said one is a stranger, one is a guildmate. I never said anyone who is not a guildmate is a stranger. Let's say he used the example of me farming for my girlfriend is the same as /list. I'd responded no, one is a stranger one is my girlfriend. Would you think I consider anyone not my girlfriend a stranger?

This mentality is the free epic WoW mentality. I dislike it. Its exactly then mentality which makes me never want to play WoW and why I love early EQ.

This feels like raidfinder to me. Who cares there is a healer not healing, a DPS not DPSing. Its their free epic, just farm it for them.

It's not really any different than killing a raid mob knowing someone with more points will get the drop you want if it drops. You can help kill the mob and advance whoever is in front of you or you can choose not to attend.

[PabloEdvardo]

I think a community of people who show up underleveled to a mob and expect others to farm a mob for 10 hours for them are entitled jerks. I don't care that the /list system allows it.

If someone thinks the lvl requirements are too low, when it's proven that a group of that level can do it, they're just reinforcing the selfish-as-usual stance of "you should be able to solo it" which as others have pointed out many times, amounts really to "my time is more valuable than anyone else's".

Those saying that they aren't going to help others farm something for 20+ hours, simply don't realize waiting there for 20+ hours is exactly how the system works, and they're literally only ruining their reputation by doing anything other than help move the list along.

It's a small community. Someone can claim "rules" all they want. But "Play Nice" is a grey area that relies on interpretation... and just like "porn", people know toxic selfish behavior when they see it.

I guess it's good that many of the people doing the egregious stuff are FD / solo classes -- because they will erode away their ability to find groups if they persist with that type of behavior.

[Kirrund]

You're taking my words out of context. And even still with them out of context is not even close to what you claim I said.

He said /list is the same as a guild raid. I said one is a stranger, one is a guildmate. I never said anyone who is not a guildmate is a stranger. Let's say he used the example of me farming for my girlfriend is the same as /list. I'd responded no, one is a stranger one is my girlfriend. Would you think I consider anyone not my girlfriend a stranger?

Pretty common sense from the amount of times you've referred to people as strangers (do I need to go dig them all up? seems like a colossal waste of time just for an attempt to get through to you) that it's anyone who isn't your friend or guildmate (or girlfriend), or your brain works in an alien way to every other normal person and the word stranger to you is either a made up fictitious extraneous group beyond the usually accepted family/friend/acquaintance/stranger groupings... or someone literally named Stranger. Words and language means things beyond what you explicitly state. We aren't robots. I would wager most people would agree with what I inferred, and that you're just mincing words because you won't give up your position that you weren't presenting a selfish viewpoint. Or you're just trolling.

Insane. Do you burst into flames if you admit you're wrong or made a mistake? If so, I'll leave it alone, because I wouldn't want that to happen to you. I'm not selfish like that.

Just unbelievable.

[Modwolf]

Grakken is a lost cause. Everyone is better off ignoring his mental gymnastics.

[Grakken]

Pretty common sense from the amount of times you've referred to people as strangers

The ol' I was proven wrong so I'm just gonna allude to the mountain of evidence I can't be bothered to provide defense?

Grakken is a lost cause. Everyone is better off ignoring his mental gymnastics.

You do realize I'm the one getting attacked? I presented an argument in accordance with the subject of the thread and others responded with ad hominem?

[ZiggyTheMuss]

There seems to be a portion of the users on these forums who are unfortunately mistaken on the purpose of the list.

The creation of the list has for some reason left these poor brain-damaged souls with the false impression that the purpose of it is to "promote grouping" or "get people to work together to camp items for others."

The guides do not fucking care if you guys work together. They don't care if a certain class can't solo camp an item.

What they DO care about is not having a thousand fucking tickets to sort through every day from disputes surrounding the manastone camp. I really don't know what is so hard to understand about this concept but hey, there you go. Of course common sense might seem like such an alien concept to people who are willing to sit on a wooden box for 50 hours to get an OMGERD-mernastern!

I support the list because I support the staff. However, it still needs to be tweaked to cut freeloading leeches out of the equation though.

"But a rogue can't solo the camp, you should want to help a rogue stranger camp this item for 20 hours!"

Bitch, STFU. Why don't you go on the blue server or any other camp on green/teal where there is not a /list present and just announce to the zone "Hey guys! I am not capable of camping XXXX but who wants to spend the next 20 hours camping it for me?!?" and see how that works out for you.

[Natewest1987]

There seems to be a portion of the users on these forums who are unfortunately mistaken on the purpose of the list.

The creation of the list has for some reason left these poor brain-damaged souls with the false impression that the purpose of it is to "promote grouping" or "get people to work together to camp items for others."

The guides do not fucking care if you guys work together. They don't care if a certain class can't solo camp an item.

What they DO care about is not having a thousand fucking tickets to sort through every day from disputes surrounding the manastone camp. I really don't know what is so hard to understand about this concept but hey, there you go. Of course common sense might seem like such an alien concept to people who are willing to sit on a wooden box for 50 hours to get an OMGERD-mernastern!

I support the list because I support the staff. However, it still needs to be tweaked to cut freeloading leeches out of the equation though.

"But a rogue can't solo the camp, you should want to help a rogue stranger camp this item for 20 hours!"

Bitch, STFU. Why don't you go on the blue server or any other camp on green/teal where there is not a /list present and just announce to the zone "Hey guys! I am not capable of camping XXXX but who wants to spend the next 20 hours camping it for me?!?" and see how that works out for you.

God it’s even worse when it’s something that doesn’t even use mana.

[jacob54311]

List is working as intended.

[Bazia]

rogues getting loot leaving nerds frothing at the mouth, based staff imo

[lituviel]

"But a rogue can't solo the camp, you should want to help a rogue stranger camp this item for 20 hours!"



Help the list moving and carry him asshole!

[bubur]

just zoned into lguk to check guise. 4 people on list, entire room fully up

/nope

[Phaezed-Reality]

just zoned into lguk to check guise. 4 people on list, entire room fully up

/nope

cool huh? want to farm 4 people afk 8 hours each guises?

[Videri]

just zoned into lguk to check guise. 4 people on list, entire room fully up

/nope

I don’t get it. People should be bringing a group, right? Just like any other camp? Why do people think they can show up alone to a camp they can’t solo and get the item?

Whoever is #1 on the list should bring friends to help camp it, just like camping the Mask on Blue.

[solleks]

i got on the list for a turkey i'm going to have to camp it all day oh well

[Phaezed-Reality]

I don’t get it. People should be bringing a group, right? Just like any other camp? Why do people think they can show up alone to a camp they can’t solo and get the item?

Whoever is #1 on the list should bring friends to help camp it, just like camping the Mask on Blue.

i earned it, i deserve it. in some cases i can understand, the guy was there all night 25 hours and then the grp disbands at 3am and he cant find any replacements, by all means stay list one until more show up, but in most cases these people sit there hitting afk not doing shit.

[Videri]

Welp, if I ever go after a Guise, I’ll bring friends. Hopefully at a time when the list is short.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Welp, if I ever go after a Guise, I’ll bring friends. Hopefully at a time when the list is short.

enjoy the 4 FD/afk people in safe cubby waiting for u to bring your grp to farm them their guises

edit: oh yea, dont forget, they have the same cleric log in and rez themselves if ur grp wipes and it wipes them, so they retain there afk list positions. same cleric, just new level 35 after another camp being monopolized by the same by a certain crew that did this to items on blue. i spent 4 days watching. it's a big hustle down there until its cleaned up somehow.

[Evets]

So are they boxing the cleric to rez themselves I wonder? ... Could a petition possibly get these few rotten apples banned? Although the whole reason for the list was to reduce petitions at these camps ...

[Rynon]

enjoy the 4 FD/afk people in safe cubby waiting for u to bring your grp to farm them their guises

edit: oh yea, dont forget, they have the same cleric log in and rez themselves if ur grp wipes and it wipes them, so they retain there afk list positions. same cleric, just new level 35 after another camp being monopolized by the same by a certain crew that did this to items on blue. i spent 4 days watching. it's a big hustle down there until its cleaned up somehow.

People really put forth this much effort? If you can’t kill the spawn, the new group should just be able to take it and ignore the stupid neckbeard list. Does anyone care if some dude that is able to be logged in 24/7 gets mad on a video game?

[bubur]

my experience was just 4 people sitting in cubby on list, no one killing

i didnt see any cleric or shenanigans, just a bunch of enterprising ppl not wanting to lose their spot but not able to clear camp

ill just check back later

[Bazia]

my experience was just 4 people sitting in cubby on list, no one killing

i didnt see any cleric or shenanigans, just a bunch of enterprising ppl not wanting to lose their spot but not able to clear camp

ill just check back later

the joke is if you ask #1 "hey lets start clearing these PHs" they just wont respond until a GINA prompt tells them assassin has popped

[unleashedd]

i dont understand how 4 people are unable to group together to kill it, but i never camped a manastone so maybe it requires a specific group comp...

[solleks]

they're not playing eq they're just sitting at the pc with gina running , fat

[DMN]

i dont understand how 4 people are unable to group together to kill it, but i never camped a manastone so maybe it requires a specific group comp...

maybe they don't have a healer and DPS not so great. EE is a wizzy and can kick out a lot of damage pretty fast on a group of 35s.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

i dont understand how 4 people are unable to group together to kill it, but i never camped a manastone so maybe it requires a specific group comp...

Why would they when someone else can do all the work for them?

Instead they can level their toon on the other server

[unleashedd]

im guessing a nice auto-agro feature onto lister #1 would help

[Phaezed-Reality]

Instead they can level their toon on the other server


this, this is the major problem i run into, afk people playing teal. it stinks, but what can u do, u get called an asshole for not farming their items and ur rep takes a hit.

personally, ill take all the rep hits in this instance and wear them proudly. Sorry, but im not down with farming afk people 12-34 hour legacy items while they afk.

edit: or arn't high enough to solo it and expect me to do all the work. Sorry. level up or bring a group like the list function was intended to be used, not abuse it like this.

[supermonk]

i don't think you guys are understanding the point of OP's post. the issue (although subjective) isn't that these players can't solo the camp so they should get the boot. the issue is that these neckbeards are holding the camp hostage until someone comes to help them get free pixels.. someone not being able to clear the camp while it's already broken is one thing, but holding a spot on a list hoping for someone to start clearing it for you is pretty pathetic. best solution i can think of is code the list to begin once the PH is dead. let the group do a /random or figure out placement on the initial list during this situation.

[Zeboim]

If mob or ph is up for an hour, list is purged. Temp lockout for those on it.

Gg ez