Watched the Nag kill, is classic raiding just cheese?

[WaffleztheAndal]

Props to Seal Team for the kill, but to be honest watching that was depressing lol. So much cheese and mechanic abuse.

Is this what classic raiding in eq is now that the game is 20 years old? Is there no real challenge left?

Or does challenge come from having to engage prematurely due to competing guilds?

Watching this Nag kill, for the first time, makes me see the value in a Red server. PvE on a 20 year old server has never seemed more stale to me than it did tonight.

[Mercius]

what bothered you about it, you didnt point at anything

[bwe]

didn't watch it so please tell us what the cheese and mechanic abuse was thx

[Darkintellect]

The fight may be stale bread to you, but PvP included makes the bread poisonous. That doesn't make it somehow better.

[Bardp1999]

THE MIGHT OF HALAS DOES NOT LIKE YOUR TONE PEASANT

https://i.imgur.com/llhaE5A.jpg

I am guessing he does like healers healing out of LoS cause thats the only 'cheese' I can think so...But welcome to Everquest dumb dumb

[baakss]

I figured he was talking about the bind rush tbh? That would’ve been a violation on blue but green is so new that it’s unlikely it matters.

[Mercius]

I figured he was talking about the bind rush tbh? That would’ve been a violation on blue but green is so new that it’s unlikely it matters.

violation of what?

[Endonde]

violation of what?

Not allowed to bind at raid mobs, but obviously shouldn't apply to green.

[nicemace]

Wait till you see what soulfires bring to the party.

[Albanwr]

THE MIGHT OF HALAS DOES NOT LIKE YOUR TONE PEASANT

https://i.imgur.com/llhaE5A.jpg

I am guessing he does like healers healing out of LoS cause thats the only 'cheese' I can think so...But welcome to Everquest dumb dumb

I think he was more talking about healers binding close by, dying to AOE when oom and coming back to just dump heals and repeat.

It was a zerg kill but it got the job done.

[Vormotus]

I believe everybody is entitled to their opinion, but personally, seeing people killing a classic mob on the green classic server, was fun for me.

I raided back in the day and honestly would love one day, if my time permits, do so again, do not see why the gloom and jadedness on killing mobs in a 20 year old game to be honest.

I was happy Naggy was down, watched the stream as I afked on my necro and had a nice time, I even dinged 11!

So for me it was a fun event and reminded me of my old Test Alliance and Botsquad Raiding Guild back in the Test server in 2002-2004.

Much love to everybody from the Isthmus 8)

[Phaezed-Reality]

really stinks after having it happen on red server, figured it wouldn't happen on a 3rd because it was cheesed on a 2nd launch. damn. crazy. This was even deemed exploiting back in my day and a guild was banned for it (not affiliated with the guild). Damn, i know this is emu but dang. i was really hoping for a non cheese.

edit : grats anyways i guess.

[Widan]

Pathing and collision do not work on green/teal, as anyone who has casted a nuke in a building can probably tell you. So there's no chance Nagafen was going to be stopped by doorways.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Pathing and collision do not work on green/teal, as anyone who has casted a nuke in a building can probably tell you. So there's no chance Nagafen was going to be stopped by doorways.

that is a strawman argument, just because he could doesn't mean you shouldn't fight him properly. honestly i don't really care about the naggy kill, more upset this has happened on a 2nd server launch although not as bad as what happened on red.

[WaffleztheAndal]

Can’t the staff do anything about these abuse kills? I heard something about dragons being rooted on blue?

[Purplefluffy]

Props to Seal Team for the kill, but to be honest watching that was depressing lol. So much cheese and mechanic abuse.

Is this what classic raiding in eq is now that the game is 20 years old? Is there no real challenge left?

Or does challenge come from having to engage prematurely due to competing guilds?

Watching this Nag kill, for the first time, makes me see the value in a Red server. PvE on a 20 year old server has never seemed more stale to me than it did tonight.

Yes.

[WaffleztheAndal]

Yes.

Well that’s just sad then lol. I think this has actually converted me to going Red if/when a new PvP server arrives. I feel like cheesing PvE content is much more difficult with a rival guild literally able to attack you.

[Tecmos Deception]

PvE on a 20 year old server has never seemed more stale to me than it did tonight.

You weren't even there. You basically watched it on TV. Why would you expect it to be some super-engaging experience? You watched a rerun of The Price is Right and are confused that it wasn't as interesting as attending an actual filming when Bob was still the host and you made it to the showcase showdown.

Besides that though, there's probably more finesse and tactics involved in a "cheese" strategy than a "let's all stand under his belly and die" "tactic." The latter relies almost entirely on time invested. It's numbers, levels, and resist gear grinded up. How would THAT be less stale than squeezing out a kill with an under-leveled and under-geared raid force by use of some emergent gameplay?

What they did won't even be a viable method for more than a couple weeks anyways. The only reason it was possible is because no one else is anywhere remotely nearby or able to/interested in fighting naggy.

If it really bothers you so much, consider researching how a fight would have played out on classic live. If there were different mechanics that would have changed the way the fight worked, then submit evidence and maybe the staff will change things so that you can feel things are less "stale."

[Wallicker]

THE MIGHT OF HALAS DOES NOT LIKE YOUR TONE PEASANT

https://i.imgur.com/llhaE5A.jpg

I am guessing he does like healers healing out of LoS cause thats the only 'cheese' I can think so...But welcome to Everquest dumb dumb

From photo: “Shoutout to all the koandal fish that died to make this happen!” Roflmao I cannot believe this quest hasn’t been nerfed yet!

People are jelly, great teamwork and great kill grats on the CoF.

[Purplefluffy]

Well that’s just sad then lol. I think this has actually converted me to going Red if/when a new PvP server arrives. I feel like cheesing PvE content is much more difficult with a rival guild literally able to attack you.

Personally I enjoy PvP but it is a very time intensive thing to Police and can never be classic because balance is required. I would also add that it is far more preferable to have teams or 'race Vs race' PvP over a free for all. I think one great compromise would be to allow 'guild wars' to occur on green and teal <- in fact I think that might be the bets option.

That said, I personally think EQ is at its best at the mid levels and where a challenge can be had <- that is the most enjoyable aspect and where group based combat tactics are at their most advanced and most enjoyable. I leave the server firsts and 'status mob kills' to others as that is what is important to them over getting the most out of the game.

[Dolalin]

I've always found farming Soulfires for raid mob cheesing to be incredibly distasteful.

[Fragged]

Besides that though, there's probably more finesse and tactics involved in a "cheese" strategy than a "let's all stand under his belly and die" "tactic." The latter relies almost entirely on time invested. It's numbers, levels, and resist gear grinded up. How would THAT be less stale than squeezing out a kill with an under-leveled and under-geared raid force by use of some emergent gameplay?

+1

[Ligma]

Pulling naggy out of the lair doesn't even make it any easier. If anything, him coming out makes pulling the giants harder.

[beeshma_nameless]

I don't get this obsession with EQ's PVP 100 people (in total, all over) seem to have a hard-on for.

A dozen or so always bring it up on these boards (out of context mostly, but I guess it could be considered humor in the PvP circles, who knows) and there are like ten on the Daybreak forums asking for a PvP progression server every month or so.....

What is it about the whole "PvP in EQ was never balanced and never will be" which most normal people knew like 18 years or so ago, which these PvP fans don't seem to get at all?

I mean, we are all obsessed about an ancient version of EQ, but this subset of PvP obsession when it is clear it will NEVER work, is something I don't get?

Did I miss the heyday where a 1000 concurrent players were on Red, and it was a thriving server for months ?

[Tecmos Deception]

Red players want more players so their PVP is more fun. That's not rocket science.

And EQ PVP IS pretty well balanced. Just not in a moba/wow arena/1v1 sense like you're probably thinking of.

[beeshma_nameless]

Ah ok, thanks.

What happened to Red Server though, it has single digit players and sometimes low double digits?

[zodium]

I don't get this obsession with EQ's PVP 100 people (in total, all over) seem to have a hard-on for.

A dozen or so always bring it up on these boards (out of context mostly, but I guess it could be considered humor in the PvP circles, who knows) and there are like ten on the Daybreak forums asking for a PvP progression server every month or so.....

What is it about the whole "PvP in EQ was never balanced and never will be" which most normal people knew like 18 years or so ago, which these PvP fans don't seem to get at all?

I mean, we are all obsessed about an ancient version of EQ, but this subset of PvP obsession when it is clear it will NEVER work, is something I don't get?

Did I miss the heyday where a 1000 concurrent players were on Red, and it was a thriving server for months ?

everquest pvp, like an insanely lame UO classic server speedrun, instantly devolves into a winner-takes-all situation until only a handful of ultra-griefers remain, begging for prey to come join their long dead community, no really it's fun we promise

they're basically addicted to griefing and have run out all the targets and now they're jonesing for a fix

[Tecmos Deception]

It had some glory days I guess. It was several hundred for the launch and 200ish for a couple years I think. Red players blame server mechanics and some issues with certain staff members who aren't around any more for ruining the server. Blue players tend to blame red players "griefing" new players off the server. Once it fell below critical mass, it could never lure in more people and kept bleeding members.

I gave red two good tries in the past. Guilds were excited to have new players, leveling is fast, you got a lot of help getting caught up so you could participate in raids and fights at the upper end. Getting wrecked in PVP when you're by yourself is just another thing to get used to, part of the red eq game. Some people can't handle it. Some people didn't give it a legit try. Some people just don't like it.


Honestly anyone who complains about "ultra-griefers" is probably someone who insisted on leveling in unrest or uguk and bound at the zoneline and kept feeding themselves into the meat grinder of a shadowknight twink again and again because they'd rather bitch about it and quit than have any sort of intelligence or energy to try something different... like not sit in the biggest zone for a twink to feed on low level players all the time, or refrain from bitching a little bit so that other players don't hate you and actually will come help you out, or something along those lines.

[beeshma_nameless]

I played DAoC from it's launch for 3 or so years. Made on a shoe-string budget (with a VERY crappy PvE compared to EQ etc.), the RvR was lovely.

I don't think EQ (or any other game) came even close to DAoC 3 Realm war thing.

[cutelittlecow]

I've always found farming Soulfires for raid mob cheesing to be incredibly distasteful.

I used a single charge in a pinch reactively because no one, including myself, had a reaper on hand, and I could see that mana was tight. I didn't intend to use that Soulfire on a raid, and more or less was hoping to save full charges for any future potential cleric BOTB.

It wasn't farmed for a raid, lol. Lucan was mainly killed because I saw it up and wanted the yellow text for quest completion.

Dunno what y'all are expecting from a raid force involving 4-5 level 50's and the majority in their mid 30's.

[Lulz Sect]

You will never pVp on a 600+ server again
RiP red launch era

[cutelittlecow]

You will never pVp on a 600+ server again
RiP red launch era

:(

[zodium]

Honestly anyone who complains about "ultra-griefers" is probably someone who insisted on leveling in unrest or uguk and bound at the zoneline and kept feeding themselves into the meat grinder of a shadowknight twink again and again because they'd rather bitch about it and quit than have any sort of intelligence or energy to try something different... like not sit in the biggest zone for a twink to feed on low level players all the time, or refrain from bitching a little bit so that other players don't hate you and actually will come help you out, or something along those lines.

red99community.txt

[zodium]

our community isn't dead because the ten of us still bitterly clinging on suck, it's everyone else who sucks

try r ed

[Uuruk]

Ah ok, thanks.

What happened to Red Server though, it has single digit players and sometimes low double digits?

6 years of kunark or whatever that shit was is what happened.

[magusfire24]

Wow nuts that someone killed a dragon already.

[Palemoon]

Watching this Nag kill, for the first time, makes me see the value in a Red server. PvE on a 20 year old server has never seemed more stale to me than it did tonight.


So true and hope everyone reads this part a few times. EQ PvE has been reduced to a cold mathematical equation. Only with PvP thrown in can you have replayability until the end of time.

[fadetree]

Of course they knew the mechanics to use/abuse. That's the primary problem with 'recreating 1999'. The devs have worked very hard to provide a classic game environment. Unfortunately, what's really #notclassic is us.

Anyways, congrats on the kill, I say. How long did it take for the first dragon kill back in the day, I wonder.

[bum3]

Wish they'd go ahead and make soulfire equip to use. This cheese is really smelly.

[Palemoon]

Wish they'd go ahead and make soulfire equip to use. This cheese is really smelly.

I think they made it so on the red server. Also no recharge at vendors on red, so it cut out a ton of cheese.

[Graahle]

Why is it such a big deal to pull Nagafen to where they did? Serious question.

It looked pretty smart to me, but I'm not entrenched in 10 years of P99 rules.

[Haynar]

Props to Seal Team for the kill, but to be honest watching that was depressing lol. So much cheese and mechanic abuse.

Is this what classic raiding in eq is now that the game is 20 years old? Is there no real challenge left?

Or does challenge come from having to engage prematurely due to competing guilds?

Watching this Nag kill, for the first time, makes me see the value in a Red server. PvE on a 20 year old server has never seemed more stale to me than it did tonight.

You must be used to being in guilds that never kill naggy. You do whatever it takes when raiding in bronze and cloth sandles.

Enjoy never killing naggy if you have such rigid expections of what is allowed.

Grats Seal Team.

[Vexenu]

The only thing more tired than the oft-repeated calls for a new PvP server are the chorus of replies about how, "LOL RED IS DEAD, PVP IN EQ IS UNBALANCED AND TOTAL FAIL U MORAN." Invariably the people saying this know nothing about the history of Red and have never played on any EQ PvP server, classic or emulated.

The reality is that EQ PvP is literally more balanced than EQ PvE. All classes have a niche in EQ PvP, an area in which they can excel. Hybrids are particularly effective, whereas on a Blue server they are basically a joke. Wizards are useful for more than raid kills. Druids are extremely good. When you factor in PvP + PvE together EverQuest reaches its highest level of immersion and class balance.

The strange thing is that EQ as played on P1999 PvE is inherently a PvP game: the content itself is never the challenge, the only challenge is beating other players to that content. So these Blue players who decry PvP are totally incoherent, because they are actively engaged in competition against other players. They are just competing indirectly rather than directly. The PvP players simply prefer their competition to be more direct and concrete.

[azeth]

The reality is that EQ PvP is literally more balanced than EQ PvE.


Hybrids are particularly effective


Wizards are useful for more than raid kills

Druids are extremely good...

Do you uh, see what you did here?:confused:

[fadetree]

The only thing more tired than the oft-repeated calls for a new PvP server are the chorus of replies about how, "LOL RED IS DEAD, PVP IN EQ IS UNBALANCED AND TOTAL FAIL U MORAN." Invariably the people saying this know nothing about the history of Red and have never played on any EQ PvP server, classic or emulated.

The reality is that EQ PvP is literally more balanced than EQ PvE. All classes have a niche in EQ PvP, an area in which they can excel. Hybrids are particularly effective, whereas on a Blue server they are basically a joke. Wizards are useful for more than raid kills. Druids are extremely good. When you factor in PvP + PvE together EverQuest reaches its highest level of immersion and class balance.

The strange thing is that EQ as played on P1999 PvE is inherently a PvP game: the content itself is never the challenge, the only challenge is beating other players to that content. So these Blue players who decry PvP are totally incoherent, because they are actively engaged in competition against other players. They are just competing indirectly rather than directly. The PvP players simply prefer their competition to be more direct and concrete.

This is a fair point. Still don't like EQ PvP, though.

[Legidias]

Wish they'd go ahead and make soulfire equip to use. This cheese is really smelly.

While I agree soulfires should be either must or can equip to click, only 1 click of it was used in the Naggy fight. The cheese came from spamming zerg clerics that were bound nearby. But, given that its 6 50's + a handful of 30's in rags and used bronze, its pretty good.

[Vexenu]

Do you uh, see what you did here?:confused:

The point is that every class has a PvP niche in which they excel. In contrast, PvE niches are much more limited for the classes I listed. There is basically zero reason for a PvE guild to have Paladins, Rangers, SKs and Druids around. There is zero reason to ever have a Wizard in your XP group. But on a Red server you would be glad to XP with a Wiz, knowing that if PvP suddenly happened his burst damage would be very valuable. It's much the same having an SK or other hybrid around.

When you combine PvP and PvE the class roles become much more fleshed out and every class feels like they are contributing more.

[Natewest1987]

LOL YES

[aaezil]

You have become better at clicking Soulfire! (200)

[Lhord99]

Grats, guys! Great achievement! I'm a little jealous I haven't committed to getting to that point on Green, as that must have felt pretty good on a rainy, Fall Thursday!

--

But, I've seen't and heard this too much not to say anything: "It was a zerg, but they won, so kudos!"

100% the criticism of Blue Raid scene is now par for the course. I, personally, don't see that as a bad thing. BUT, first big raid mob downed on Green and it's done on the Blue standard, and there's so much shade being thrown around on how 'toxic' the old p99 mentality is.

Can we now just admit there's far more to this game than raid mechanics, so we can stop this constant criticism of 'denying other pixels' and crap like that?

[Wwen42]

The only thing more tired than the oft-repeated calls for a new PvP server are the chorus of replies about how, "LOL RED IS DEAD, PVP IN EQ IS UNBALANCED AND TOTAL FAIL U MORAN." Invariably the people saying this know nothing about the history of Red and have never played on any EQ PvP server, classic or emulated.

The reality is that EQ PvP is literally more balanced than EQ PvE. All classes have a niche in EQ PvP, an area in which they can excel. Hybrids are particularly effective, whereas on a Blue server they are basically a joke. Wizards are useful for more than raid kills. Druids are extremely good. When you factor in PvP + PvE together EverQuest reaches its highest level of immersion and class balance.

The strange thing is that EQ as played on P1999 PvE is inherently a PvP game: the content itself is never the challenge, the only challenge is beating other players to that content. So these Blue players who decry PvP are totally incoherent, because they are actively engaged in competition against other players. They are just competing indirectly rather than directly. The PvP players simply prefer their competition to be more direct and concrete.
That might all be true, but for one reason or another no one is interested. Hell, look at WoW PvP. It's completely low-stakes, but people still chose to avoid those servers. Even the pops IN those servers usually avoid PvP. The only MMO that the PvP was the whole point is Eve Online in 0 security space where you have Corps and Alliances taking and hold space. (Warhammer made pvp a big part of it, but it's super dead)

You can promote PvP or Libertarians all you like, but we don't live in a culture that wants those things. And p1999 EQ PvP is a niche within a niche. You're better off trying to get family members on board than people already on PvE servers.

[Raclen]

It had some glory days I guess. It was several hundred for the launch and 200ish for a couple years I think. Red players blame server mechanics and some issues with certain staff members who aren't around any more for ruining the server. Blue players tend to blame red players "griefing" new players off the server. Once it fell below critical mass, it could never lure in more people and kept bleeding members.

I gave red two good tries in the past. Guilds were excited to have new players, leveling is fast, you got a lot of help getting caught up so you could participate in raids and fights at the upper end. Getting wrecked in PVP when you're by yourself is just another thing to get used to, part of the red eq game. Some people can't handle it. Some people didn't give it a legit try. Some people just don't like it.


Honestly anyone who complains about "ultra-griefers" is probably someone who insisted on leveling in unrest or uguk and bound at the zoneline and kept feeding themselves into the meat grinder of a shadowknight twink again and again because they'd rather bitch about it and quit than have any sort of intelligence or energy to try something different... like not sit in the biggest zone for a twink to feed on low level players all the time, or refrain from bitching a little bit so that other players don't hate you and actually will come help you out, or something along those lines.

I haven't played on a server where ultra griefers were a thing. There might be a twink that lives in MM but he would never leave that zone and you out level them in 1-2 days in another zone if you want.

As for numbers the red server had over 400 at launch. It had over 200 during Kunark and Velious as well. It had dips in between, especially during classic.

The balance thing isn't an issue. Every class is useful in pvp in some situation. It is very rock paper scissors. In doors, out doors, room to run around, pve mobs being involved. Even if you are not the best PvP class for a situation you may be required for a PvE encounter so therefor the good pvp classes on your team need to help you out.

[Wwen42]

Raid mechanics in EQ are pretty basic anyway. It's the stone-age compared to modern MMO encounters.

[Raclen]

Oh also the reason the red server has gone to nearly 0 is because:

1) With the low numbers rooted dragons made it impossible for the guilds left to do content easily.

2) PvP servers get stale and need some sort of seasons. The life of a PvP server without more expansions coming out is going to be capped at 2-3 years.

3) Rise of Zek is providing what Red99 doesn't and is coming out with a new server on December 13. PvPers that are aware of this have given up on Red99 until Rogean announces a new server.

[Widan]

Also Velious is not an expansion conducive to PvP because it forces you to raid (gross) or be severely under geared vs. those who do. Classic and Kunark do not have such gear imbalances.

[Lhord99]

Also Velious is not an expansion conducive to PvP because it forces you to raid (gross) or be severely under geared vs. those who do. Classic and Kunark do not have such gear imbalances.

I hear your point, certainly, but clicky DPS exists in a broken, broken way in Kunark.
Clicky Stun. Clicky 250 dmg cold nukes. Clicky 333 dmg fire nukes with ABSURD ranges. Clicky Fear. Clicky Snare. Clicky str/hp buffs. And, root nets (rechargeable) carry over from vanilla. That's all stat-free insanity.

[worm4real]

Red players want more players so their PVP is more fun. That's not rocket science.

And EQ PVP IS pretty well balanced. Just not in a moba/wow arena/1v1 sense like you're probably thinking of.

That's kind of the core issue with it though. After decades of PVPers trying to pitch it as a more pure and perfect experience I'm numb to those lines because all they want is more warm bodies. I don't like it and I feel like most other people don't.

[bwe]

nerf soulfire

[Izmael]

Pretty sure that if the PvP community made an effort to be seen as welcoming on the forums, the red server would be different.

90% of the posts from the red players are either cringy attempts at trolling, or trying to make them look better than the "bluebies". Very rarely a red player is being nice and friendly on the forums. No matter how much of a nerdy glass-wearing dweeb they are IRL they will constantly talk smack trying to sound "gangsta". I bet some of them literally reread their posts before clicking submit and remove punctuation and capitalization so they appear even more "hardcore'.

The literally only exceptions to this cringefest I can think of are Swish and Tala.

Guess this didn't work out too well for the server as noone seems to be impressed by how tough the red players are or is willing to hang out with them.

[Legidias]

Join PvP where you're lvl 1 and youre vs lvl 60's in raid gear

[Daldaen]

PvP exists on Green, Teal and Blue. Just go to any starting city arena and go at it. Or go to Lake Rathetear and zone over to the arena and go at it.

Or use the /duel command.

No need for open world PvP.

[Raclen]

Pretty sure that if the PvP community made an effort to be seen as welcoming on the forums, the red server would be different.

90% of the posts from the red players are either cringy attempts at trolling, or trying to make them look better than the "bluebies". Very rarely a red player is being nice and friendly on the forums. No matter how much of a nerdy glass-wearing dweeb they are IRL they will constantly talk smack trying to sound "gangsta". I bet some of them literally reread their posts before clicking submit and remove punctuation and capitalization so they appear even more "hardcore'.

The literally only exceptions to this cringefest I can think of are Swish and Tala.

Guess this didn't work out too well for the server as noone seems to be impressed by how tough the red players are or is willing to hang out with them.

Blue has a lot of cringy trolls as well. Red has popularity but the severs just have a shorter shelf life than blue servers. It is the nature of competing vs players that get stronger instead of the environment that stays the same for 20 years. If Red99 opened a new server there would be a healthy population. It would actually work really well with the green recycle type servers. Red99 1.0 had a good population and the server was a joke. It would be much more polished now then it was when it opened. There were a lot of broken mechanics, awful rules like exp loss on pvp death, and corrupt GMs doing stuff for $$.

The worst issue I have seen with recent red99 besides being stale is the play nice policy rules. The amount of /petitions each guild does is a negative, which is also awful on blue I'm sure. That is something that should not be on a red server. The PvP servers are meant to be more of a sandbox, policed by the community and less rules. Training and everything else should be legal outside of exploits/3rd party programs. PvP servers are meant for people that want more of an immersive, competitive or roleplaying experience outside of the core game content.

[stewe]

nerf soulfire

I been saying this all along but it wont happen, seems the powers that be have no prob with items that trivialize raids, why even worry about your clerics going OOM when you can just have your tank CH himself for a few rounds while they get their mana back

[Dolalin]

I did manage to find proof that Naggy wouldn't come out of his lair until 2003.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3026090&postcount=12

[zodium]

Blue has a lot of cringy trolls as well. Red has popularity but the severs just have a shorter shelf life than blue servers. It is the nature of competing vs players that get stronger instead of the environment that stays the same for 20 years. If Red99 opened a new server there would be a healthy population. It would actually work really well with the green recycle type servers. Red99 1.0 had a good population and the server was a joke. It would be much more polished now then it was when it opened. There were a lot of broken mechanics, awful rules like exp loss on pvp death, and corrupt GMs doing stuff for $$.

The worst issue I have seen with recent red99 besides being stale is the play nice policy rules. The amount of /petitions each guild does is a negative, which is also awful on blue I'm sure. That is something that should not be on a red server. The PvP servers are meant to be more of a sandbox, policed by the community and less rules. Training and everything else should be legal outside of exploits/3rd party programs. PvP servers are meant for people that want more of an immersive, competitive or roleplaying experience outside of the core game content.

ok, i'd play a 3-month cycle "one day before Kunark launch" era pvp server

[bwe]

I been saying this all along but it wont happen, seems the powers that be have no prob with items that trivialize raids, why even worry about your clerics going OOM when you can just have your tank CH himself for a few rounds while they get their mana back

Yeah the raid scene here is stupid. It's all clickies.

[Frug]

Ah ok, thanks.

What happened to Red Server though, it has single digit players and sometimes low double digits?

It's an efficient market; it adequately reflects the amount of enjoyment and fun it provides.

[Raclen]

ok, i'd play a 3-month cycle "one day before Kunark launch" era pvp server

I like the RoZ cycle they are doing, 6 months classic, kunark, velious then luclin. I will stop playing after Kunark myself. Some people are not excited about the 6 months of classic but I will enjoy the 2-3 months extra in classic over any time in Velious/Luclin anyways.

[Nirgon]

pulling him to an easier spot to wall dodge makes him harder

grats on killing this the p99 way, saw u got a nice COF

[Jimjam]

pulling him to an easier spot to wall dodge makes him harder

grats on killing this the p99 way, saw u got a nice COF

Not classic. Dragons shouldn't be itemised at this point in classic. At best GM shows up to award participation trophies.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Kind of interested in seeing all the recordings from all the other seal team first achievements now. Kind of putting them in doubt.

I mean if this is what people call legit, fine. ill call it legit. But from real classic, this is not. Wondering how the other firsts where done now that we have seen how they did this. And i wonder if this is how the tempo of this server is going to be allowed to be set, or just as red happened will other guilds get to cheese naggy like this or will it be "bannable" by time we do it? ( i am not trolling, i experienced this first hand, i'd love to get some clarity) we have enough pet classes to cheese him now, but due to what happened on red we stayed away. Kind of shitty to see it happening again.

[Zeboim]

I dunno why anyone is surprised, Seal Team is Aftermath after all. What if I told you there was another server. One that they weren't on?

[Khaleesi]

...

Dunno what y'all are expecting from a raid force involving 4-5 level 50's and the majority in their mid 30's.

That it wasn't done with "4-5 level 50's and the majority in their mid 30's"

I dunno why anyone is surprised, Seal Team is Aftermath after all. What if I told you there was another server. One that they weren't on?

The biggest irony of all, the lot of them couldn't do five push ups.

Unless 'Seal' as in blubbery mammal, ok makes sense.

[Meiva]

PvP exists on Green, Teal and Blue. Just go to any starting city arena and go at it. Or go to Lake Rathetear and zone over to the arena and go at it.

Or use the /duel command.

No need for open world PvP.

You miss the point.

If I want something you have, I can just take it from you. I can't do that with /duel, arenas or irl.

[Danth]

EQ raiding is and always has been a case of, "How hard can we 'sploit and not get punished for?" Been that way since the start. Anyone claiming otherwise is either woefully ignorant or outright delusional. That's par for the course in any open-ended game and could be regarded as equivalent to the widespread pushing the rules that takes place in many other areas of competition (notoriously in auto racing, as an example).

In other words, it's fair game until the admins say it isn't. Nice job on a Nagafen kill with an undergeared low-level scratch force.

Danth

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Ah ok, thanks.

What happened to Red Server though, it has single digit players and sometimes low double digits?

IMO, Velious happened! The difference between players in full Classic-era gear vs. full Kunark-era gear is not hugely significant in regards to PvP.

On the other hand, the difference between players in full NTOV gear vs. players equipped with anything less is enormous. The huge amount of Hitpoints, AC and Resists on NTOV/Sleeper's (ie +100HP +35AC and +15 or greater to all resists) gear completely detroys the ALREADY skewed balance of EverQuest PvP.

Warriors and Monks become completely unstoppable PvP monsters able single-handedly kill eradicate entire groups of lesser-geared players; and once "Guild A" has begun to acquire said gear it becomes nigh impossible for "Guilds B-Z" to even compete.

[Yorkshire]

I'm just surprised by the speed of everything. I have to admit I'm ignorant when it comes to P99. I did not expect people to hit level 50 within a week and take down a raid mob in 2 weeks.

On one level it's impressive that people know the game so intimately that they can perform these kinds of accomplishments.

On another level I have to wonder what drives people to keep playing when they clearly know this game inside and out.

I'm naïve I suppose, I was expecting a slower progression of things. I'm still having fun though and we'll see how things change over the course of the next several months.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

EQ raiding is and always has been a case of, "How hard can we 'sploit and not get punished for?" Been that way since the start. Anyone claiming otherwise is either woefully ignorant or outright delusional. That's par for the course in any open-ended game and could be regarded as equivalent to the widespread pushing the rules that takes place in many other areas of competition (notoriously in auto racing, as an example).

In other words, it's fair game until the admins say it isn't. Nice job on a Nagafen kill with an undergeared low-level scratch force.

Danth

I'd say this applies to just about every MMO, ever, to be honest. It's just far more punishingly significant in a purely-sandbox MMO like EverQuest, wherein one guild's gain is effectively all other guild's losses.

Thankfully the "elite guilds" on the P99 servers are far less selective than they were on Live. Essentially any player level 60 can apply (and likely get accepted) to any "top tier guild" on Blue. This may be different on Green/Teal though, as the populations are significantly higher.

I expect (based on their low population counts) that Tanks and Monks/Rogues will be in very high demand a month or two from now as the planes begin to open up and additional guilds look to begin raiding. Then we have a FULL YEAR until Kunark releases which will, apparently, be more than sufficient for these guilds to powerlevel all the Warriors/Monks/Rogues/Clerics they will need for Kunark raiding.

[Naxy]

I'm just surprised by the speed of everything. I have to admit I'm ignorant when it comes to P99. I did not expect people to hit level 50 within a week and take down a raid mob in 2 weeks.

On one level it's impressive that people know the game so intimately that they can perform these kinds of accomplishments.

On another level I have to wonder what drives people to keep playing when they clearly know this game inside and out.

I'm naïve I suppose, I was expecting a slower progression of things. I'm still having fun though and we'll see how things change over the course of the next several months.

Yeah, but for me Green is about my journey, not what other people do when I am not there. I am lvl 13 even though I was online the first day. And it will take me months and months to get to raiding Naggy. So my experience is very classic. :)

[Larken]

The only thing more tired than the oft-repeated calls for a new PvP server are the chorus of replies about how, "LOL RED IS DEAD, PVP IN EQ IS UNBALANCED AND TOTAL FAIL U MORAN." Invariably the people saying this know nothing about the history of Red and have never played on any EQ PvP server, classic or emulated.

The reality is that EQ PvP is literally more balanced than EQ PvE. All classes have a niche in EQ PvP, an area in which they can excel. Hybrids are particularly effective, whereas on a Blue server they are basically a joke. Wizards are useful for more than raid kills. Druids are extremely good. When you factor in PvP + PvE together EverQuest reaches its highest level of immersion and class balance.

The strange thing is that EQ as played on P1999 PvE is inherently a PvP game: the content itself is never the challenge, the only challenge is beating other players to that content. So these Blue players who decry PvP are totally incoherent, because they are actively engaged in competition against other players. They are just competing indirectly rather than directly. The PvP players simply prefer their competition to be more direct and concrete.

This. You sir nailed it.

[Mirakk82]

Hey, real talk though.

Anyone know what program that guy had running for cooldowns? (Top right corner)

And bonus question for clarification. I thought 3rd party program use was a nono on this server. What's the deal with this?

[Mercius]

its called GINA and apparently devs cant do anything to stop it because it reads logs and funnels the info into the UI

they would have to do something to logs to prevent it

[Fragged]

It is strictly forbidden to use any knowledge obtained about the game during the last 20 years as it may upset people that have not yet had enough time to master the complex mechanics of EQ.

Doing anything smarter or more efficient than back on live will be deemed #unclassic and any involving party will be permanently banned as the filthy dirty cheater they are.

/facepalm

[Mercius]

It is strictly forbidden to use any knowledge obtained about the game during the last 20 years as it may upset people that have not yet had enough time to master the complex mechanics of EQ.

Doing anything smarter or more efficient than back on live will be deemed #unclassic and any involving party will be permanently banned as the filthy dirty cheater they are.

/facepalm

bindrushing so smart and efficient :rolleyes:

[Dolalin]

Bindrushing is very classic and was honestly a part of most early dragon raids.

I don't mind cheese as long as it's matured :D

[bum3]

Bindrushing is very classic and was honestly a part of most early dragon raids.

I don't mind cheese as long as it's matured :D

If your guild was weak sauce. We never did that, even in PUG raids. As someone said before, guides didn't allow it. But by some posts, clearly not every server followed the same rules.

[bum3]

While I agree soulfires should be either must or can equip to click, only 1 click of it was used in the Naggy fight. The cheese came from spamming zerg clerics that were bound nearby. But, given that its 6 50's + a handful of 30's in rags and used bronze, its pretty good.

I remember the first time naggy and vox were duo'd. It was a sad day.

[k9quaint]

Bindrushing is very classic and was honestly a part of most early dragon raids.

I don't mind cheese as long as it's matured :D

This. There is a fine bloomy rind on this cheese.

[Jimjam]

I remember the first time naggy and vox were duo'd. It was a sad day.



I Duoed Naggy by clearing the fire giants with my 70 berserker, then switching to my 52 Erudite Sk loaded with Dwerium jewellery supported by friend's froglok wizard that shrouded down to lvl 50 kobold cleric shroud.

EQ got pretty whacky as it expanded.

[doubledgedbeard]

I was a cleric on the Nag kill.

I ran in twice to try and die to get mana. The first time was pointless because he was AoEing so infrequently I ended up running back to just med.

The second time, right after I died, we killed him, so I didn't even need to do it.

Those who think we won because we were chain-sac'ing healers are off their rocker. We actually had some issues with overhealing, and it was like our 2nd attempt, so we could have tightened it up even more if we wanted to. Sac'ing healers was a strategy we decided to use to finish off that attempt, but was in no-way how we accomplished it.

As far as having healers out of LoS... uh, that's just normal EQ raid positioning.

Not sure what else was "cheese".

I've done more Naggys than I can count. The only "cheese" I saw was having a guild full of a bunch of experienced raiders who didn't panic, listened to instructions, and helped each other out to accomplish a server first.

[mycoolrausch]

its called GINA and apparently devs cant do anything to stop it because it reads logs and funnels the info into the UI

they would have to do something to logs to prevent it

Which wouldn't be classic because programming gina in 1999 would've been trivial, although people were too in awe that they could talk to somebody in Ohio while they were in Missouri at the time to care or think of it.

[Endonde]

I was a cleric on the Nag kill.

I ran in twice to try and die to get mana. The first time was pointless because he was AoEing so infrequently I ended up running back to just med.

The second time, right after I died, we killed him, so I didn't even need to do it.

Those who think we won because we were chain-sac'ing healers are off their rocker. We actually had some issues with overhealing, and it was like our 2nd attempt, so we could have tightened it up even more if we wanted to. Sac'ing healers was a strategy we decided to use to finish off that attempt, but was in no-way how we accomplished it.

As far as having healers out of LoS... uh, that's just normal EQ raid positioning.

Not sure what else was "cheese".

I've done more Naggys than I can count. The only "cheese" I saw was having a guild full of a bunch of experienced raiders who didn't panic, listened to instructions, and helped each other out to accomplish a server first.

I have no issue with how you killed Naggy, but let's not pretend it was the work of expert Everquest tacticians.

Your tank had to be taught how to use a Mallet, and turn walk on mid raid.

It was good work, surprised it died this early after launch, but Seal Team still has much to learn before they are masters of Everquest.

[bwe]

Mallet spam should be nerfed too

[Mirakk82]

its called GINA and apparently devs cant do anything to stop it because it reads logs and funnels the info into the UI

they would have to do something to logs to prevent it

Thanks for the clarification, on both points

[bum3]

I Duoed Naggy by clearing the fire giants with my 70 berserker, then switching to my 52 Erudite Sk loaded with Dwerium jewellery supported by friend's froglok wizard that shrouded down to lvl 50 kobold cleric shroud.

EQ got pretty whacky as it expanded.

Oh this was before zerker.. was a monk and shammy if i remember right. Luclin era

[Lone Gnome]

6 years of kunark or whatever that shit was is what happened.

Red99 should have stayed kunark forever, velious is terrible on every level

only the losers in empire wanted it, and they griefed everyone until they raided uncontested for months and thousands of hours, got best in slot then quit because there was nothing to do.

[welly321]

Oh this was before zerker.. was a monk and shammy if i remember right. Luclin era

no way did a 52 monk and shammy duo naggy in the luclin era.

[Videri]

no way did a 52 monk and shammy duo naggy in the luclin era.

A 52 monk soloed naggy on Blue. Blurry video evidence (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHjjtJuopE0).

Edit: I take it back. That's not the video I meant. Maybe I was thinking of the Emperor Chottal one. Didn't a 52 monk solo Nagafen on Blue?? With, like, bags upon bags of consumables?

[welly321]

A 52 monk soloed naggy on Blue. Blurry video evidence (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHjjtJuopE0).

That video was uploaded in 2007....Blue came out in 2009? .....

[Videri]

Oh shoot, I must have found the wrong video. I should have known. The one I meant has GINA all over it.

[Ligma]

A 52 monk 100% solo'd both of them on live with wort pots. In fact, there exists a solo log of it that showed vox/naggy only having 25k hp.

If you had puppet strings with a hasted pet with conflag daggers and valiant companion you would destroy vox.

[mattydef]

Congratulations!

[Zekayy]

It had some glory days I guess. It was several hundred for the launch and 200ish for a couple years I think. Red players blame server mechanics and some issues with certain staff members who aren't around any more for ruining the server. Blue players tend to blame red players "griefing" new players off the server. Once it fell below critical mass, it could never lure in more people and kept bleeding members.

I gave red two good tries in the past. Guilds were excited to have new players, leveling is fast, you got a lot of help getting caught up so you could participate in raids and fights at the upper end. Getting wrecked in PVP when you're by yourself is just another thing to get used to, part of the red eq game. Some people can't handle it. Some people didn't give it a legit try. Some people just don't like it.


Honestly anyone who complains about "ultra-griefers" is probably someone who insisted on leveling in unrest or uguk and bound at the zoneline and kept feeding themselves into the meat grinder of a shadowknight twink again and again because they'd rather bitch about it and quit than have any sort of intelligence or energy to try something different... like not sit in the biggest zone for a twink to feed on low level players all the time, or refrain from bitching a little bit so that other players don't hate you and actually will come help you out, or something along those lines.

People have legit done this on red https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLyMlTnujX8&list=PLtVwJVV4SnjgkJSOdtJy8t0HjyHEU1KID this is why red died

[mycoolrausch]

To answer the OP's question yes all of classic EQ raiding is cheese because there are no caps on the amount of players you can bring to an encounter and there's an impossibly large array of abilities, spells, clickies, etc that can be combined in infinitely many ways. It's part of what gives the game its dynamic feel vs on-a-rail encounters found in later MMOs.

[Endonde]

People have legit done this on red https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLyMlTnujX8&list=PLtVwJVV4SnjgkJSOdtJy8t0HjyHEU1KID this is why red died

I played on Red for a while, I remember the twinks being kind of annoying, there was a lvl 12 or so wizard in Crushbone who sat on the wall out of melee range, had Robe of Azure Sky, Epic, and probably nearly best in slot loot, He would just log on periodically kill anyone around him and then log off. That was annoying but I didn't mind it too much, those people lose interest quickly, and you end up out leveling them anyway.

The annoying part to me was as I got higher level, it stopped being 1 player griefing and instead would be the entire top guild. While I do think EQ PvP could be fun, on Red it was always one zerg guild eliminating the chance of any real PvP.

[Jimjam]

Can't beat 30 people in ToV gear porting on to your group and a half in hate trying to get some trash rots.