can you skill up research via combine?

[korilla]

i've heard conflicting reports. those who said yes though didn't confirm by experience.

[Obrae]

You probably can as a necro/mage/enchanter.

Since magician words and components drop about 1/1000 of rhese other class, i don’t thibk it would be viable but technically, i guess you can.

[Wenai]

Since magician words and components drop about 1/1000 of rhese other class

I haven’t seen the drop tables in about 8 years, but the likelihood they have changed is pretty low. Project 1999 has been running for 10 years without people complaining about drops rates. You are (potentially) spreading such misinformation it is gross. I have been seeing lots of people selling research components in auction in the zones I am leveling in, including magician pet research. You guys just think that you should be able to kill 4 mobs and get your 4 specific research pieces immediately. The reality is that research is set up so that ALL research classes have their components dropping. You need to be trading/selling with your fellow casters. Most people are adapting. Why aren’t you?

This entire bottleneck of research components is bound to happen at a server launch. You have a massive amount of people all trying to get a few random drops at the same time. They are gonna be snatched up at vendors, snatched up in auction. People are going to hoard them even if they don’t need them. Hell there are 10 other classes that are more likely to let them rot, or even destroy them because it doesn’t pertain to their class. You need to (god have mercy) make friends and be loud. Make it known you are looking for and paying for these pieces. Stop complaining on the forums about something that is very unlikely to be broken. this has been implemented, functional, and working for 10 years. I very much doubt that someone went in and screwed magicians randomly in the days leading up to the lunch by removing magician research pieces.

Granted apparently some vendor pets were removed and there was no recipes for those pets removed which created an unfortunate bottleneck given the magician research mechanic.

[WaffleztheAndal]

I haven’t seen the drop tables in about 8 years, but the likelihood they have changed is pretty low. Project 1999 has been running for 10 years without people complaining about drops rates. You are (potentially) spreading such misinformation it is gross. I have been seeing lots of people selling research components in auction in the zones I am leveling in, including magician pet research. You guys just think that you should be able to kill 4 mobs and get your 4 specific research pieces immediately. The reality is that research is set up so that ALL research classes have their components dropping. You need to be trading/selling with your fellow casters. Most people are adapting. Why aren’t you?

This entire bottleneck of research components is bound to happen at a server launch. You have a massive amount of people all trying to get a few random drops at the same time. They are gonna be snatched up at vendors, snatched up in auction. People are going to hoard them even if they don’t need them. Hell there are 10 other classes that are more likely to let them rot, or even destroy them because it doesn’t pertain to their class. You need to (god have mercy) make friends and be loud. Make it known you are looking for and paying for these pieces. Stop complaining on the forums about something that is very unlikely to be broken. this has been implemented, functional, and working for 10 years. I very much doubt that someone went in and screwed magicians randomly in the days leading up to the lunch by removing magician research pieces.

Granted apparently some vendor pets were removed and there was no recipes for those pets removed which created an unfortunate bottleneck given the magician research mechanic.

I am 31 and have seen exactly 2 words of dimension drop and 0 words of Coercion. Dimension are sold for usually 75 - 100pp and coercion 200 - 450pp (on a brand new server...), when you can find them for sale. These prices far exceed any other class’ research components by a huge margin. Each Magician pet requires the last pet to make, so the entire process repeats and gets worse with every level. If you fail a combine you start all over again.

[korilla]

I haven’t seen the drop tables in about 8 years, but the likelihood they have changed is pretty low. Project 1999 has been running for 10 years without people complaining about drops rates. You are (potentially) spreading such misinformation it is gross. I have been seeing lots of people selling research components in auction in the zones I am leveling in, including magician pet research. You guys just think that you should be able to kill 4 mobs and get your 4 specific research pieces immediately. The reality is that research is set up so that ALL research classes have their components dropping. You need to be trading/selling with your fellow casters. Most people are adapting. Why aren’t you?

This entire bottleneck of research components is bound to happen at a server launch. You have a massive amount of people all trying to get a few random drops at the same time. They are gonna be snatched up at vendors, snatched up in auction. People are going to hoard them even if they don’t need them. Hell there are 10 other classes that are more likely to let them rot, or even destroy them because it doesn’t pertain to their class. You need to (god have mercy) make friends and be loud. Make it known you are looking for and paying for these pieces. Stop complaining on the forums about something that is very unlikely to be broken. this has been implemented, functional, and working for 10 years. I very much doubt that someone went in and screwed magicians randomly in the days leading up to the lunch by removing magician research pieces.

Granted apparently some vendor pets were removed and there was no recipes for those pets removed which created an unfortunate bottleneck given the magician research mechanic.

but can you skill up research via combines though? :)

[bum3]

You are leveling too fast... group with a few hybrids.. take it slow. get more words. Prices are so high on those words because there is a high demand. Everyone made pet classes to rush content and excluded key classes. So it's ok if key classes can profit from it.

[Modwolf]

Oh the nightmares from live. Once a mage, never again.

[Lojik]

I had a few skillups with combines on blue server, not sure if thats in on green? I assume so. Either way, I really wouldn't count on trying to do combines for skillups, its far easier and probably cheaper just to train research at the GM.

[Obrae]

I haven’t seen the drop tables in about 8 years, but the likelihood they have changed is pretty low. Project 1999 has been running for 10 years without people complaining about drops rates. You are (potentially) spreading such misinformation it is gross. I have been seeing lots of people selling research components in auction in the zones I am leveling in, including magician pet research. You guys just think that you should be able to kill 4 mobs and get your 4 specific research pieces immediately. The reality is that research is set up so that ALL research classes have their components dropping. You need to be trading/selling with your fellow casters. Most people are adapting. Why aren’t you?

This entire bottleneck of research components is bound to happen at a server launch. You have a massive amount of people all trying to get a few random drops at the same time. They are gonna be snatched up at vendors, snatched up in auction. People are going to hoard them even if they don’t need them. Hell there are 10 other classes that are more likely to let them rot, or even destroy them because it doesn’t pertain to their class. You need to (god have mercy) make friends and be loud. Make it known you are looking for and paying for these pieces. Stop complaining on the forums about something that is very unlikely to be broken. this has been implemented, functional, and working for 10 years. I very much doubt that someone went in and screwed magicians randomly in the days leading up to the lunch by removing magician research pieces.

Granted apparently some vendor pets were removed and there was no recipes for those pets removed which created an unfortunate bottleneck given the magician research mechanic.

1/1000 was an obvious exageration the reality is more like 1/100

By your post we know you have no clue what you are talking about. Other classes components drop so much that people who wants them fill their bags and eventually have to destroy then anyway.

So yes, mages drops are defenitly NOT the dame drop rate.
You can test it out yourself, we know cause we live this fact every day we play.

Also you see mage words for sale BECAUSE they are so rare and needed. There isnt much loot worth less that other class materials so they end up vendored or destroyed ( with some exception )

[Wenai]

1/1000 was an obvious exageration the reality is more like 1/100

By your post we know you have no clue what you are talking about. Other classes components drop so much that people who wants them fill their bags and eventually have to destroy then anyway.

So yes, mages drops are defenitly NOT the dame drop rate.
You can test it out yourself, we know cause we live this fact every day we play.

Also you see mage words for sale BECAUSE they are so rare and needed. There isnt much loot worth less that other class materials so they end up vendored or destroyed ( with some exception )

I made the drop tables 10 years ago. Yes, there is 10 years for changes to potentially take effect, but the likelihood is very very low that anyone would have ever touched those tables. I still have all of the original data that went into the DB from 10 years ago. I just can’t see this working for 10 years, and suddenly on green launch it is suddenly broken. It is so incredibly unlikely. If someone did make changes, that sucks; I just highly highly doubt it.

I am also pretty sure you have no idea how statistics work because you are talking about such incredibly small sample sizes and declaring them as fact, it’s pretty hilarious.

[Obrae]

I made the drop tables 10 years ago. Yes, there is 10 years for changes to potentially take effect, but the likelihood is very very low that anyone would have ever touched those tables. I still have all of the original data that went into the DB from 10 years ago. I just can’t see this working for 10 years, and suddenly on green launch it is suddenly broken. It is so incredibly unlikely. If someone did make changes, that sucks; I just highly highly doubt it.

I am also pretty sure you have no idea how statistics work because you are talking about such incredibly small sample sizes and declaring them as fact, it’s pretty hilarious.

Wenai, it’s because those materials were not needed before pets were 100% removed from merchant after 20.

Before Green i was leveling a magician on blue. I never researched a pet, just the other spells and still did not bother for most.

The hypothesis is since they fixed magician by putting pets on merchant instead of fixing the magician research that was unfinished at realesed, drops were never adjusted to the level they should have been dropping. Components drops, but words are defenetly alot rarer than other classes.

Anyway we see the light at the end of tunnel, it appears magician will be unbroken in a nesr futur.

[Isomorphic]

You are leveling too fast... group with a few hybrids.. take it slow. get more words. Prices are so high on those words because there is a high demand. Everyone made pet classes to rush content and excluded key classes. So it's ok if key classes can profit from it.

The same people excluding non pet classes from the groups are up in arms that those they excluded are using a free market to sell the words for whatever someone will buy them for.

[kotton05]

A Mage is so easy mode brain dead anyways... they deserve to pay thru the roof for those words

[Obrae]

A Mage is so easy mode brain dead anyways... they deserve to pay thru the roof for those words

All class are easy, your playing a 20 years old mmo revolving around auto-attack.
We like the game becaude we speak to each other and need each other.

Just the fact that we have an active community even in the forum is great.

I am not certain why magicians would deserve to pay anything special, nor any other class. Did you get abused by a magician in your youth ?

[tsuchang]

I HATE the research requirement.

[Draagun]

Because of the high value of the Magician Words groups make you roll for them unlike everyone else that just get their class's words for being part of the group

[derpcake2]

I made the drop tables 10 years ago.

The drop tables might have worked with pets on vendors, but in their current state magicians are just screwed.

I've posted before that I strongly suspect the droptables are based on having pets on merchants, due to the cumulative needs that magician research involves, but it got drowned out by the noise in the thread.

[Axlrose]

To answer the original poster's question - yes, you can get skill ups doing combinations (at least on Blue). That is my "quest" among my characters - to gain skill ups without buying them from a master.

I have ten characters (on hiatus); and whenever components would drop, rarely did it drop for the class getting that reward. That is, if I am adventuring with my warrior, then all types of components would drop. If I use my necromancer, then I would get enchanter pages. Running with my druid gains a bit of this and that. If I was to determine the ~hardest~ components to gain, then it would be wizard runes.

But your mileage may vary.

[derpcake2]

I just can’t see this working for 10 years, and suddenly on green launch it is suddenly broken.

That is because for those 10 years, pets were on merchants.

I'm sure you understand given this new information.

[Balimon]

Wenai, thanks for your work on the project! I believe the mage components were meant to be more rare. I realize also that people are providing you with anecdotal evidence, but I can only tell you from my experience that mage components are much harder to come by.

Here's something to consider, look at the prices for researched spells on blue. You'll find that the mage spells are far more expensive than the other classes.

[zillabunny]

I made the drop tables 10 years ago. Yes, there is 10 years for changes to potentially take effect, but the likelihood is very very low that anyone would have ever touched those tables. I still have all of the original data that went into the DB from 10 years ago. I just can’t see this working for 10 years, and suddenly on green launch it is suddenly broken. It is so incredibly unlikely. If someone did make changes, that sucks; I just highly highly doubt it.

I am also pretty sure you have no idea how statistics work because you are talking about such incredibly small sample sizes and declaring them as fact, it’s pretty hilarious.

What is the drop rate for the jboots do you know if that got monkeyed with?

[jacob54311]

What is the drop rate for the jboots do you know if that got monkeyed with?

I think they tweaked some drop rates for certain items to compensate for them being perma camped and maybe other reasons. Evidence is pretty much anecdotal, as usual.

[Firepuff]

I plan to use both combines and practice points to skillup.
Combines when I don't need the spell(when i already have it, or have multiple attempts).
Practice points when I need the next combine to not fail, i do not have the spell and it is an important spell.


My guild have this neat guildbank system, where we turn in the finished spells and research components we don't need(including those for other caster-classes).
In turn we can ask the guildbank for specific spells and components for free. :)

[Frug]

I haven’t seen the drop tables in about 8 years, but the likelihood they have changed is pretty low. Project 1999 has been running for 10 years without people complaining about drops rates. You are (potentially) spreading such misinformation it is gross. I have been seeing lots of people selling research components in auction in the zones I am leveling in, including magician pet research. You guys just think that you should be able to kill 4 mobs and get your 4 specific research pieces immediately. The reality is that research is set up so that ALL research classes have their components dropping. You need to be trading/selling with your fellow casters. Most people are adapting. Why aren’t you?

This entire bottleneck of research components is bound to happen at a server launch. You have a massive amount of people all trying to get a few random drops at the same time. They are gonna be snatched up at vendors, snatched up in auction. People are going to hoard them even if they don’t need them. Hell there are 10 other classes that are more likely to let them rot, or even destroy them because it doesn’t pertain to their class. You need to (god have mercy) make friends and be loud. Make it known you are looking for and paying for these pieces. Stop complaining on the forums about something that is very unlikely to be broken. this has been implemented, functional, and working for 10 years. I very much doubt that someone went in and screwed magicians randomly in the days leading up to the lunch by removing magician research pieces.

Granted apparently some vendor pets were removed and there was no recipes for those pets removed which created an unfortunate bottleneck given the magician research mechanic.


A simple check of auction prices should give you an idea of supply and demand.

[Frug]

I made the drop tables 10 years ago. Yes, there is 10 years for changes to potentially take effect, but the likelihood is very very low that anyone would have ever touched those tables. I still have all of the original data that went into the DB from 10 years ago. I just can’t see this working for 10 years, and suddenly on green launch it is suddenly broken. It is so incredibly unlikely. If someone did make changes, that sucks; I just highly highly doubt it.

I am also pretty sure you have no idea how statistics work because you are talking about such incredibly small sample sizes and declaring them as fact, it’s pretty hilarious.

Almost as hilarious as assuming something you think you remember from 10 years ago is still valid, given that mage pets aren't on vendors now, right?

As the devs would say "show some proof".

[Videri]

i've heard conflicting reports. those who said yes though didn't confirm by experience.

The answer is yes, and I can confirm by experience on P99. You can gain skill from a non-trivial research combine. If you had a big surplus of research components for non-trivial combines, you could totally use it to boost your skill.

However, due to the way research skill caps work, you could only use this to catch your research skill up if you fell behind on practicing it. Since we get research at 16 and it's capped at (level-15)*5, spells for one's current level will require higher research skill than one can possibly have.

As a result, if you're level 20 and doing level 20 research combines, you won't get skillups because the skill cap is too low; whereas if you are level 30 or something and you haven't bothered to raise Research skill, you could do level 20 and 24 combines for skillups. Probably not level 29 spells, though. Perhaps this is the source of the confusion regarding raising research skill via combines. It IS possible, but the skill cap messes you up.

The bottom line is, if you're level 20 and you want a level 20 spell, you should have it made by a much higher-level player with high research skill.

And if you're raising Research skill, for the sake of your own sanity, you'll probably want to dump points into it at your trainer. Research can be raised as high as you like at the trainer, as it is not subject to the 21-point limit placed on normal tradeskills.

Help this hopes?