Ogre Stun Resist Explained?

[VincentVolaju]

I've read and heard in game different things about how the Ogre stun resist works and it's realistic usefulness, but a lot of it conflicts with each other.

Some have said it stops all spell interrupts, which would make it super useful. Others have said it only stops you from being stunned, but you still get spell interrupts multiple times a fight and isn't that great actually. I've also heard that it's nerfed and hardly ever works, that even from the front you still get stunned sometimes?

I was wondering if some of you guys who have experience playing an Ogre can explain exactly what it does and if just how useful it is; if it's worth being evil and taking on a bigger exp penalty or not?

[Dolalin]

As an ogre, if you stand in a corner and face your enemies while casting, you're more or less immune to all melee interrupts. You'll channel almost every time.

It's really handy.

[Widan]

You can still get spell interrupted from melee pushback so if you are fighting multiple mobs or want to guarantee no interrupts then you need to position yourself against an object.

[Brut]

It means melee front bash doesn't do the stun & spin weak elves have to deal with. Spell-type stuns still stun you, ie. Cleric/Paladin/Enc spells that feature some stun. And as said above, push can still interrupt you if you're not backing against a wall.

[wildstar]

Ogre necro when!

[Coridan]

Ogre bard when

[Tecmos Deception]

You can still get spell interrupted from melee pushback so if you are fighting multiple mobs or want to guarantee no interrupts then you need to position yourself against an object.

Didn't they recently change it so that a bash can still interrupt from the front? It can't STUN but it can still interrupt?

Huh. I thought I remembered reading about that somewhere, but I can't dig it up with a forum search.

[Tortok]

Yes, at least on blue Ogres were nerfed some patches ago. Not getting stunned but still getting interrupted by bashes.

[Tecmos Deception]

Yes, at least on blue Ogres were nerfed some patches ago. Not getting stunned but still getting interrupted by bashes.

Ok. I wasn't sure if everyone claiming FSI was still "no interrupts except from push" were uninformed or if I was imagining that a change had been made. Guess that doesn't answer the question on green/teal specifically though.

[Gustoo]

Getting hit still makes you need to channel to cast and there is a chance of channeling failure.

Getting physically stunned by a slam or bash or kickstun is a 100% chance of spell interrupt. On an ogre that doesn't happen.

[Tecmos Deception]

Getting hit still makes you need to channel to cast and there is a chance of channeling failure.

Getting physically stunned by a slam or bash or kickstun is a 100% chance of spell interrupt. On an ogre that doesn't happen.

This isn't really the whole story though is it?

I always thought that bash (and slam) can interrupt a spell apart from the stun (since a bash that connects doesn't always also stun) or the melee damage/push+channeling failure. Like with 56+ NPCs: they can't be stunned, but a bash can still (instantly) interrupt a spellcast on those mobs.

Like... if you have a spellcast and you get pushed or otherwise fail to channel through normal damage, you get the interrupt message at the end of the spellcast and it just doesn't go off. But even when bash doesn't stun, it sometimes will INSTANTLY interrupt a spellcast, stopping the cast bar and delivering the interrupt message immediately.

I'm not just imagining this right?


Edit - yeah I'm not imagining it. Bash and slam can instantly interrupt a spell without the stun component working.

[Sat Nov 02 08:21:17 2019] You begin casting Root.
[Sat Nov 02 08:21:17 2019] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Nov 02 08:21:18 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Sat Nov 02 08:21:18 2019] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Nov 02 08:21:18 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Sat Nov 02 08:21:18 2019] Your spell is interrupted.
[Sat Nov 02 08:21:18 2019] Guard Gvarr bashes YOU for 5 points of damage.
[Sat Nov 02 08:21:19 2019] Guard Gvarr slashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Sat Nov 02 08:21:21 2019] You bash Guard Gvarr for 1 point of damage.

This bash did not stun. Root has a 2.0 second cast. The bash instantly interrupted the root before its cast time was finished purely from "bash interrupt."

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334923

Haynar: Bash can now interrupt spells, even if the stun component does not land (Credit work by Torven/Mackal).




Does a bash that interrupts WITHOUT the stun component landing affect an ogre from the front? Or no?

[Baler]

Frontal Stun Immunity makes ogres unable to be stunned by melee ~180 degrees in front of them.

FSI does not provide any form of interrupt immunity beyond the stun resistance aforementioned.

---
So with the change that can allow bash to interrupt without stunning. Ogres can be interrupted by bash from the front even if they resist the stun.

[FatherSioux]

So ogre shaman min max choice needs to be reconsidered.

[Kinaki]

So ogre shaman min max choice needs to be reconsidered.

Hardly. It's exceedingly rare to get interrupted on a successful bash.

[Golliath]

Hardly. It's exceedingly rare to get interrupted on a successful bash.

I guess the question is, what percentage of bashes don't stun? If it's 50/50 then you effectively halve the racial bonus of Ogres. Or possibly even worse if we are saying that there are two separate components, 1. dmg which can interrupt anyone and 2. stun that interrupts everyone but Ogres. Are they run on the same check, or two separate checks? If there is now a chance on every bash that an Ogre can be interrupted it makes a lot more argument for Troll vs Ogre.

[Baler]

If we're talking shaman. Race doesn't matter.
With torpor you can literally play any race and do just fine.
And I've argued a ton with people about FSI vs Regen.

[Golliath]

If we're talking shaman. Race doesn't matter.
With torpor you can literally play any race and do just fine.
And I've argued a ton with people about FSI vs Regen.

Sure. But that's lvl 60 with your best spell.

If 1-60 you can have super-duper regen or nothing (if FSI is bunk now), why would you go Ogre and suffer through 59 levels?

[Kinaki]

I guess the question is, what percentage of bashes don't stun? If it's 50/50 then you effectively halve the racial bonus of Ogres. Or possibly even worse if we are saying that there are two separate components, 1. dmg which can interrupt anyone and 2. stun that interrupts everyone but Ogres. Are they run on the same check, or two separate checks? If there is now a chance on every bash that an Ogre can be interrupted it makes a lot more argument for Troll vs Ogre.

Rare enough that I've never noticed it and the only evidence I see for it is the above Tecmos log. I've previously run intentionally long fights on 55+ PoM mobs and never personally witnessed it on dozens of bashes.

[Baler]

Sure. But that's lvl 60 with your best spell.

If 1-60 you can have super-duper regen or nothing (if FSI is bunk now), why would you go Ogre and suffer through 59 levels?

In classic I would argue that ogre is the best starting race because of the FSI + best starting stats for shm.
(mind you I lean towards troll every day in the end)

[Golliath]

In classic I would argue that ogre is the best starting race because of the FSI + best starting stats for shm.
(mind you I lean towards troll every day in the end)

Right. Which is now dependent on what this means "Haynar: Bash can now interrupt spells, even if the stun component does not land (Credit work by Torven/Mackal)." If bashes can interrupt without stun then what does FSI matter?

[Baler]

Bash broken down..

Damage -> Interrupt?
Stun -> FSI?

Ogres are resisting the Stun part

[Tecmos Deception]

I guess the question is, what percentage of bashes don't stun? If it's 50/50 then you effectively halve the racial bonus of Ogres. Or possibly even worse if we are saying that there are two separate components, 1. dmg which can interrupt anyone and 2. stun that interrupts everyone but Ogres. Are they run on the same check, or two separate checks? If there is now a chance on every bash that an Ogre can be interrupted it makes a lot more argument for Troll vs Ogre.

The first 30 "bashes YOU" in my log were perfectly 50/50 on stun, fwiw.

[Golliath]

The first 30 "bashes YOU" in my log were perfectly 50/50 on stun, fwiw.

Still wondering if there are two components though, or is there a stunbash and regbash. If every bash that has dmg can interrupt does it now mean 100% of all bashes now have a chance to interrupt even ogres. I mean it would impact everyone but if we chose ogres because bash didn't impact our casting, how useful is it now?

[Tecmos Deception]

If bashes can interrupt without stun then what does FSI matter?

Certainly not every bash hits. And of the bashes that hit, not all of them interrupt at all. And of the ones that do interrupt at all, not all of those are because of the unique "bash interrupt" that instantly stops your spellcast.

So yeah. The issue is how many bashes actually come with the "bash interrupt" that will interrupt an ogre even though they're immune to stun and (which is admittedly the larger issue for non-ogres) and wedged into a corner.


"Bash interrupts" aren't extremely common. But they aren't that rare either. I can't kill 10-15 mobs without seeing them happening. And that's on a non-ogre who also is getting stunned. So some of those stuns on my troll may have still interrupted an ogre too, besides the ones I see interrupting me instantly (the "bash interrupt" as opposed to a normal melee damage/channeling/push interrupt) but not stunning me.

Any time you are casting a spell, and you get bashed, and you are NOT stunned but your spell still "your spell has been interrupted" right away, rather than your spellcast finishing but THEN giving the interrupt message.... that was what I call a "bash interrupt."

[Kinaki]

What level is your ogre that is getting stunned 50/50? Because that is hardly the case at level 60.

[Golliath]

So I guess I would need to figure out what percent of all bashes are what Tecmos calls 'bash interrupts'. And that percentage would equate to the reduction of Ogre racial benefit. So, regardless of stun immunity, if 1/10 landing bashes has this new interrupt component, that would be a 10% reduction in racial.

[solidious77]

I have a 60 Troll shaman on Blue. Sure the regen is neat and stacked with regrowth and fungi, is even better. That said though I regret not being an Ogre. Partly because he was a twink and had fungi from level 1, but mostly cause that stun resist is something you can't get from anything else in the game when you have been 60 for a while. It just always felt like I missed out on that FSR.

Now's my chance! And I totally did re-rolled an ogre Shm on Teal lol :D

[Kinaki]

[Wed Nov 06 12:27:40 2019] You begin casting Spirit of Snake.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:41 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:41 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:41 2019] Glonk bashes YOU for 42 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:41 2019] Glonk tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:41 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:41 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:41 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 64 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:43 2019] Glonk tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:43 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:43 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:43 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 94 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:45 2019] Jumbalaya has healed you for 300 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:45 2019] Glonk tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:45 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:45 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:45 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:45 2019] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Wed Nov 06 12:27:45 2019] You feel the spirit of snake enter you.

[Wed Nov 06 12:28:10 2019] You begin casting Torpor.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:11 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:11 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:11 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:11 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:11 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:11 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 156 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:12 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:12 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:12 2019] Glonk bashes YOU for 44 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:13 2019] Glonk tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:15 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:15 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:15 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:15 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:15 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:15 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:16 2019] You feel as if you are about to fall.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:16 2019] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:16 2019] You fall into a state of torpor.

[Wed Nov 06 12:28:19 2019] You begin casting Spirit of Snake.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:19 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:19 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:19 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:20 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:20 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:20 2019] Glonk bashes YOU for 47 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:21 2019] Jumbalaya has healed you for 300 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:21 2019] You can no longer levitate.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:21 2019] Glonk tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:21 2019] Glonk tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:23 2019] Glonk tries to hit YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:24 2019] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:24 2019] Your spell did not take hold.

[Wed Nov 06 12:28:41 2019] You begin casting Cannibalize IV.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:41 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:41 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:41 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:41 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:41 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:41 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 113 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:43 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:43 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:43 2019] Glonk bashes YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:44 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:44 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:44 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 113 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:44 2019] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Wed Nov 06 12:28:44 2019] Your body aches as your mind clears. You have taken 148 points of damage.

[Wed Nov 06 12:29:37 2019] You begin casting Turgur's Insects.
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:38 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:38 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:38 2019] Glonk bashes YOU for 46 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:38 2019] Glonk tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:38 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:38 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:38 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 64 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:39 2019] Jumbalaya has healed you for 300 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:40 2019] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Wed Nov 06 12:29:40 2019] Your target resisted the Turgur's Insects spell.

[Wed Nov 06 12:30:00 2019] You begin casting Spirit of Snake.
[Wed Nov 06 12:30:01 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:30:01 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:30:01 2019] Glonk bashes YOU for 45 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:30:03 2019] Jumbalaya has healed you for 300 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:30:04 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:30:04 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:30:04 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:30:05 2019] Your spell is interrupted.

[Wed Nov 06 12:32:01 2019] You begin casting Spirit of Snake.
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:02 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:02 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:02 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:02 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:02 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:04 2019] Your state of torpor ends.
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:04 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:04 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:04 2019] Glonk hits YOU for 143 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:04 2019] Glonk tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:06 2019] Glonk was pierced by thorns.
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:06 2019] Glonk was hit by non-melee for 13 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:06 2019] Glonk bashes YOU for 40 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:06 2019] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Wed Nov 06 12:32:06 2019] You feel the spirit of snake enter you.



The above syncs up with my prior parsing. I have yet to witness a bash instantly interrupt a spell on a level 60 ogre. The interrupts I've seen are all due to channeling failures.

[dekova]

Right. Which is now dependent on what this means "Haynar: Bash can now interrupt spells, even if the stun component does not land (Credit work by Torven/Mackal)." If bashes can interrupt without stun then what does FSI matter?

I tested FSI after this update. I don't have the logs with me, but I can confirm that FSI was still allowing me to cast through bashes. I believe what the above statement means is that - for ogres - a bash now has the same chance to interrupt a spell as any other melee hit.

[Gustoo]

Holy smokes dudes just play the game.

Resisting melee stun is significant. There are a lot of stun components from NPCS that are melee and not getting stunned by them is big. Interrupts are one thing, spinning for 3 seconds is horrible.

If an intelligence based caster could be an ogre with even 40 base intelligence it would be the hands down best caster race and everyone would roll it.

[TheDudeAbides]

Holy smokes dudes just play the game.

Resisting melee stun is significant. There are a lot of stun components from NPCS that are melee and not getting stunned by them is big. Interrupts are one thing, spinning for 3 seconds is horrible.

If an intelligence based caster could be an ogre with even 40 base intelligence it would be the hands down best caster race and everyone would roll it.

Ogre FSI is the best racial in the game

There will never be an item introduced on P99 that replicates frontal stun immunity

It was introduced before any of the expansions, so when they designed it, they probably didn't realize how valuable it would become during Kunark and particularly Velious. The more difficult the content, the more it's value increases.

Trying to ascertain it's value at lvl 24 during Classic is like trying to accurately predict the modern value of Apple Stock back in the early 80s at this point in the game.

People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Stun locks you for 3 seconds and at the very minimum allows a mob to get basically a free round of attacks upon you. Add additional combat variables and it puts any other race besides Ogre at a measurable disadvantage (when soloing)

There are items in the game that replicate Troll Regen. They only become more powerful as expansions are released. Shamans get a nice health regen spell as well that stacks with these items. Yes, Troll and eventually Iksar regen will also stack, but the numbers only really give you an extra spell every 10 minutes or so. Nothing to scoff at, but it's not an ability that could potentially determine a close fight.

As an Ogre you're never going to hear the echo and have to watch your game screen spin around like a top when engaged in melee from the front. You're completely immune to the effect.

Ogres also have ridiculous stats that are all good for a Shaman. Low AGI being the only slight drawback, but you can buff that on yourself, so it's a wash. I don't believe any race for Shaman is a "bad" choice. It's just that any race other than an Ogre isn't the optimal choice.

[Baler]

Regrowth + Fungi + Racial Regen = all stack for 42 hp standing per tick or 48 hp sitting per tick.
vs
Regrowth + Fungi = 33 standing and 36 sitting

[Zeboim]

There is no such thing as too much health regen. There may be items that can add to it, but it is never a bad thing to have more.

Honestly, I think that the main consideration between Troll or Ogre is ultimately just aesthetic. The other factors are close enough.

[solidious77]

The dude has spoken. We all must abide.

[Siege]

Troll/Iksar regen doesn't just grant you extra mana via Cannibalize. It also allows you to go longer without healing yourself than a race without regen, making you a more efficient soloer.

I don't disagree that Ogre stun immunity is a great racial. I just think that racial regen has a larger impact on a shaman overall.

[Baler]

With torpor race doesn't matter.

[Siege]

I never add Torpor to the equation because of how difficult it is to obtain, being the most valuable spell scroll in the game. You really need to be in a guild that feeds it to you, and if you're in that position, you better sleep with a batphone next to your pillow because you owe the people in that guild a huge debt.

[Baler]

They're not really a shm if they don't have torpor

It's not hard to get torpor