Some core issues with antonica in classic eq(why everyone goes to guk)

[Roth]

So I am someone that has always wanted to go off the beaten path, but I've had a reality check the last couple days that made me realize what the core problems are.

-guk has an insane zem for no reason. Compare to cazicthule's zem of 85 and there is literally no reason to go to cazicthule over guk.

-guk has lower hp mobs. I don't know why this is, but in general it's just way easier to kill frogs. I brought a group to runnyeye and for some reason everything had insane hp.

-All the other dungeons have tons of healers, casters, or punishing mechanics. guk has this but not to the same degree.

So basically, if you actually try some of these unpopular zones, you'll realize really quick that there is just no reason to not go to guk. Honestly the original dev's just did a terrible job balancing the zones and since we're using all those values there's no way to fix it. There is just no good place to level other than guk 18+ on antonica if you actually want good exp, period.

edit: I forgot to add sol a/sol b and najena are fine as well. But your options are limited.

[derpcake2]

git guk

[jacob54311]

This risk/reward issue has been a problem with EQ through out the time I played, not just classic.

Game design that pretty much strongly encourages players to ignore big parts of the game. I remember in Lost Dungeons of Norrath seemed like everyone would keep doing the same handful of dungeons over and over and over again, because of the way the rewards were set up.

Players will opt for repetition if it means making much faster progress. It's unfortunate. They kind of tried to do something about it with hot zones, but didn't go nearly as far as they could have, IMO. Imagine if zem's like the one in GUK moved around every week or month or whatever?

[Roth]

This risk/reward issue has been a problem with EQ through out the time I played, not just classic.

Game design that pretty much strongly encourages players to ignore big parts of the game. I remember in Lost Dungeons of Norrath seemed like everyone would keep doing the same handful of dungeons over and over and over again, because of the way the rewards were set up.

Players will opt for repetition if it means making much faster progress. It's unfortunate. They kind of tried to do something about it with hot zones, but didn't go nearly as far as they could have, IMO. Imagine if zem's like the one in GUK moved around every week or month or whatever?

If the game was balanced to reward people properly, I think it would be a lot better. For example give runnyeye a 180 zem.... it's a hard zone and deserves it. Buff the zem in permafrost or ct.

[branamil]

Honestly the way they coded casters in this game just isnt worth it. They hit just as hard as warrior mobs but you also have to deal with the insane shit they cast, and through the walls and ceilings too.

[Keza]

Idk. Guk is better overall but mostly I'd say because of loot. I trio'd a mage/war/dru on blue primarily in SolB and the exp was crazy good. We had no loot drops running the tunnel area of SolB that connects to SolA, but the exp was absurdly good and well made up for any design/loot deficits. The mobs I believe are warrior/shamans. I don't think SolB has wizards though, which I consider to be the worst mob to fight. There's a reason no one exps in places like perma/sola, and it's not just location. Getting nuked for 200+ blows.

This is one of those things where I wouldn't mind a small bit of non-classic interference, just to give people an actual reason to go to other places.

[jacob54311]

Idk. Guk is better overall but mostly I'd say because of loot. I trio'd a mage/war/dru on blue primarily in SolB and the exp was crazy good. We had no loot drops running the tunnel area of SolB that connects to SolA, but the exp was absurdly good and well made up for any design/loot deficits. The mobs I believe are warrior/shamans. I don't think SolB has wizards though, which I consider to be the worst mob to fight. There's a reason no one exps in places like perma/sola, and it's not just location. Getting nuked for 200+ blows.

This is one of those things where I wouldn't mind a small bit of non-classic interference, just to give people an actual reason to go to other places.

Yeah. Tweaking the ZEM's in some of these zones so that they make more sense wouldn't really change how the game is played.

[Roth]

Idk. Guk is better overall but mostly I'd say because of loot. I trio'd a mage/war/dru on blue primarily in SolB and the exp was crazy good. We had no loot drops running the tunnel area of SolB that connects to SolA, but the exp was absurdly good and well made up for any design/loot deficits. The mobs I believe are warrior/shamans. I don't think SolB has wizards though, which I consider to be the worst mob to fight. There's a reason no one exps in places like perma/sola, and it's not just location. Getting nuked for 200+ blows.

This is one of those things where I wouldn't mind a small bit of non-classic interference, just to give people an actual reason to go to other places.

Solb has the same zem as lower guk, but the issue with sol b is that the mobs have higher hp. But solb isn't a deserted zone, it isn't nearly as problematic as some other places. Same with sol a - sol a is fine in comparison to the worst zones.

[kabouter]

It is a simple fix, but for classic reasons won't be made. Perhaps in blue at one point?

But right now, unrest, crushbone, guk, etc... should have a lower ZEM to spread the population around a bit.

Guk has 1 of the highest ZEM's as well as the best loot.

Mix it up and keep it a secret in a way that mimics the classic feeling.

[glencastle]

It is a simple fix, but for classic reasons won't be made. Perhaps in blue at one point?

But right now, unrest, crushbone, guk, etc... should have a lower ZEM to spread the population around a bit.

Guk has 1 of the highest ZEM's as well as the best loot.

Mix it up and keep it a secret in a way that mimics the classic feeling.

100% agree with this. I would LOVE the ZEM to be randomly changed

[jettoki]

ZEMs should fluctuate every week to balance dungeon populations. They were briefly used that way on live, but there aren't good records of how or when that happened. So we're stuck with a situation that makes zero sense when you factor in an extremely knowledgeable player base.

[Madbad]

Befallen has one of the highest ZEMs in the game. It has been busy enough on green but the huge ZEM doesn't exactly draw a lot of people there on blue.

Its a cool zone too.

[Wallicker]

Well sir actually you can lvl 18-50 in Highkeep faster than upper/lower Guk and make more plat plus vendor/bank in zone. But I see your point would be fun to see people going to obscure zones chasing the weekly zem.

[ldgo86]

I was in Befallen earlier tonight and the XP was awesome. When we could even zone in, because a wandering Ghoul was completely preventing anyone from moving past the first room.

[FatherSioux]

I think an EQ server with drops shuffled around and ZEM based on difficulty would be a lot of fun if you could get a population around it.

[Roth]

I was in Befallen earlier tonight and the XP was awesome. When we could even zone in, because a wandering Ghoul was completely preventing anyone from moving past the first room.

I think that one ghoul spawn is something that if removed would actually make the game a lot better.

[cd288]

So I am someone that has always wanted to go off the beaten path, but I've had a reality check the last couple days that made me realize what the core problems are.

-guk has an insane zem for no reason. Compare to cazicthule's zem of 85 and there is literally no reason to go to cazicthule over guk.

-guk has lower hp mobs. I don't know why this is, but in general it's just way easier to kill frogs. I brought a group to runnyeye and for some reason everything had insane hp.

-All the other dungeons have tons of healers, casters, or punishing mechanics. guk has this but not to the same degree.

So basically, if you actually try some of these unpopular zones, you'll realize really quick that there is just no reason to not go to guk. Honestly the original dev's just did a terrible job balancing the zones and since we're using all those values there's no way to fix it. There is just no good place to level other than guk 18+ on antonica if you actually want good exp, period.

edit: I forgot to add sol a/sol b and najena are fine as well. But your options are limited.

Back in the day they used to rotate ZEMs, so CT had it at some point and people went there. Just not on P99 anymore

[TheRusty]

Befallen has one of the highest ZEMs in the game. It has been busy enough on green but the huge ZEM doesn't exactly draw a lot of people there on blue.

Its a cool zone too.

Because Befallen's mobs are so sparse and the respawn so long, it's hard to support more than one group per floor... and even that's kind of tedious. There's also no real "wow" factor in the rare mobs or their drops.

Befallen feels like a dungeon that was designed by someone who wants their dungeons to be "realistic" - a dank hole in the ground that you don't enjoy, risk life and limb in, and come out with 12 silver and a rat ear.

[DaNecro]

Agree. Please change the experience players get for going to random zones on random weeks and balance out Norrath !!
Don't even tell people which zone has the increased exp, just make players adventure worldwide and kill stuff to find out hahaha
Decrease exp in overpopulated zones pleaseeee

[Rooj]

Sadly we've known forever that it's like this. I've always believed that ZEMs need a good revamp. Should they be removed entirely? Most people will say dungeons are harder so they deserve a higher EXP bonus. But dungeons are also where most of the loot comes from, so is that bonus enough? IMO the ZEMs should be going to the dungeons no one goes to because the loot is crap.

But another major problem is the amount of the ZEMs. Why on earth would certain zones give like DOUBLE EXP? That's a bit too steep. The EXP bonuses should be nowhere near that high.

I have to ponder what SOE was thinking with the zones they chose to give EXP bonuses. Guk and Solusek make you think they gave it to the biggest most twisting and confusing dungeons. But then they go and give it to Unrest, one of the smallest zones in the game and simplest dungeon layout - and it's outdoor anyway. ;\

TLDR: ZEM is one of EQ's largest failures.

[Smashed]

The earliest ZEM numbers acquired are just held onto here like they are holy scripture or the constitution. Supposedly, the numbers have been tinkered with. I’ve yet to see good evidence of that on blue, and green looks the same to me thus far.

[Gustoo]

There is obviously no reason for a ZEM in guk since it has almost all of the most valuable classic world loot. Exe axe, FBSS, Manastone, SMR, Mithril 2hs.

The fact is that the vanilla world was not completed, and then kunark came out, and then velious.

One day maybe P99 will make an idealized complete vanilla server and we can all rejoice and love each and every zone and see them connect and have meaningful quests and lore.

As it is, most of them are holes in the ground with not much reason to enter unless you happen to feel like being in a cool new spot.

Highpass and Highkeep are the best grinding zones for their levels, IMO. Beautiful and profitable and convenient. Close to hobbithome. Theres a ton of other spots that people know and love.

Guk has mega loot camps that you want to be a part of and even with negative ZEM would be swarmed with people for the loots.

[Lordess]

Solb has the same zem as lower guk, but the issue with sol b is that the mobs have higher hp. But solb isn't a deserted zone, it isn't nearly as problematic as some other places. Same with sol a - sol a is fine in comparison to the worst zones.

SolB becomes a lot more popular once people start getting better geared and are able to stay ahead of respawns in spite of the higher average hp on mobs. But sadly what a lot of people have said in this thread are true. Back in classic though people didn’t really know about ZEMs and just grouped where they felt safest or could easily find groups, that’s why Aviaks, Gnoll spires, undead in Lake Rathe, Cyclopes and giant skelies in Rathe mountains, etc, were all popular spots to level back then. Only the Bravest attempted to level in dungeons because of how dangerous they were, not even realizing they were getting more xp per kill probably until around Kunark when a bit more was known about the mechanics that were going on behind the scenes.

[beeshma_nameless]

Back in the day they used to rotate ZEMs, so CT had it at some point and people went there. Just not on P99 anymore

I don't think most players even knew about Zone Exp Modifiers in 99 (and well into 2000?).

I mean I was in pick up groups in Nameless in Nov/Dec 99 where getting a three-aviak spawn made us quite content (and a black pearl drop was a jackpot as we all wanted the + AGI/DEX rings and necklace!) - ah good times. :) I thought my monk was badass once I got two of those rings!

[Ahris]

Back in the day they used to rotate ZEMs, so CT had it at some point and people went there. Just not on P99 anymore

This was long after the classical period when the old world zones were deserted, not far enough back in the day.

[Barantor]

Runnyeye would be a lot more popular if Borxx was taken out. Having a pathing level 33 evil eye makes the zone go from dangerous to deadly.

Imagine if Crushbone had a level 33 orc wandering around, now make the whole zone really tight hallways and a bit higher level overall and you get Runnyeye.

[zaneosak]

I agree with the sentiment of your post but is it worth sitting LFG in Guk for 2 hours to no group when there is 60+ people in the zone instead of going to CT or Permafrost (85 and 90 ZEM respectively) with 0 wait time and 0 mob competition? Perhaps the threat of dying to a wizard in permafrost or a runner getting healed in CT makes it worth sitting getting 0 XP waiting for a group instead of getting "some xp and possibly death" in another zone.

[zaneosak]

The earliest ZEM numbers acquired are just held onto here like they are holy scripture or the constitution. Supposedly, the numbers have been tinkered with. I’ve yet to see good evidence of that on blue, and green looks the same to me thus far.

You can use the way they calculate experience to pretty good effect to figure out ZEM, at least figure out if the numbers are accurate. I did a test in Lake of Ill Omen (which has a XP penalty) 2 years ago on Blue on bloodgills. I did them for 2 complete levels. They range a max of 3 different levels, so was easy to use an average level. I counted how many I killed to ding and did the math of what it should have been based on ZEM and Iksar penalties, I got within 3 bloodgills. I'd say it is pretty accurate.

[Fammaden]

Any hybrid playing with this penalty is going to want to be in a ZEM zone if they can also.

[Gustoo]

On live everyone leveled in FM OT and DL despite way worse exp in those areas. More jobs and comfort of outdoors.

[Coridan]

I posted a thread about this, but do we even have proof there was ZEM in those dungeons at launch?

[AegnorP99]

It would be super cool if there was some mechanism that automatically increased a zone's ZEM if the peak population didn't exceed a certain threshold for a few days. Every few days the ZEM could be modified again based on peak population until it finally met the population threshold at which point the ZEM could slowly start decreasing. It could keep doing this check every few days. Theoretically every zone's ZEM would level out such that it matched the zone's difficulty and every zone would be worth going to when considering exp vs. challenge/loot.

[Wwen42]

Idk. Guk is better overall but mostly I'd say because of loot. I trio'd a mage/war/dru on blue primarily in SolB and the exp was crazy good. We had no loot drops running the tunnel area of SolB that connects to SolA, but the exp was absurdly good and well made up for any design/loot deficits. The mobs I believe are warrior/shamans. I don't think SolB has wizards though, which I consider to be the worst mob to fight. There's a reason no one exps in places like perma/sola, and it's not just location. Getting nuked for 200+ blows.

This is one of those things where I wouldn't mind a small bit of non-classic interference, just to give people an actual reason to go to other places.

I agree, a light touch to make subtle improvements is what I'd want to do. The core elements of EQ was solid, but lacked a lot of polish. FFXI blew me away with how polished everything was compared to EQ. The amount of content that went untouched because Verant never bothered to try and fix stuff seems like a real wasted opportunity.

[oldhead]

Oh well, its classic. We are here to play classic.

[korzax]

If I ran the zoo there would be a few changes.

[fugazi]

The combination of terrible ZEM and absolute trash tier loot makes Kerra Isle a place to avoid. Mobs drop silver coin, fish and milk. Yeah, just what you want to see when you're fighting 16-24 monks and shamans. Oldschool Runnyeye is something you want to bring two groups to, but why bother when the rare loot is terrible? Najena has terrible level variance, but a couple of good spots if you are in the perfect level range, so whilst not being a great zone, it can be great if you know exactly when to be there.

Highpass might be the sole exception because the respawn rate is absolutely mad. Back on Live you'd ALWAYS find a group camping Orcs and Gnolls. The xp was good, money loot good, and the items are great for their level! On P99 though? Well, Green n Teal have people doing Orcs, but Gnolls seem to be mostly untouched. Both mob types drop rawhide and ringmail and with vendors being just around the corner, that makes it a pretty darn decent place for cash :)

[skipdog]

I always wondered how accurate the ZEMs here were. As long as they are classic-era accurate, awesome!

[korzax]

January 14, 2001 Producer Letter

As of the next patch, you will receive additional experience (per kill) in the following zones:

Droga increased by 12%
Nurga increased by 12%
Solusek's Eye (SolA) increased by 13%
Najena increased by 13%
Befallen increased by 13%
Paw increased by 13%
Permafrost increased by 13%
Kaesora increased by 18%
Qeynos Catacombs increased by 20%
Runnyeye increased by 20%
Kerra Ridge increased by 20%
The Hole increased by 25%

Is what i found, so maybe they are low at the moment

[cd288]

January 14, 2001 Producer Letter

As of the next patch, you will receive additional experience (per kill) in the following zones:

Droga increased by 12%
Nurga increased by 12%
Solusek's Eye (SolA) increased by 13%
Najena increased by 13%
Befallen increased by 13%
Paw increased by 13%
Permafrost increased by 13%
Kaesora increased by 18%
Qeynos Catacombs increased by 20%
Runnyeye increased by 20%
Kerra Ridge increased by 20%
The Hole increased by 25%

Is what i found, so maybe they are low at the moment

Befallen def has the boost in place currently. I wouldn't expect ZEMs to be any different than they were on Blue. Part of that is, I'm assuming, just due to how hard it is to know what the base EXP rates the various different ZEMs were modifying at different times. IIRC, the ZEMs we have on Blue were the last ZEMs where the staff was actually able to confirm accuracy.

[Coridan]

The combination of terrible ZEM and absolute trash tier loot makes Kerra Isle a place to avoid. Mobs drop silver coin, fish and milk. Yeah, just what you want to see when you're fighting 16-24 monks and shamans. Oldschool Runnyeye is something you want to bring two groups to, but why bother when the rare loot is terrible? Najena has terrible level variance, but a couple of good spots if you are in the perfect level range, so whilst not being a great zone, it can be great if you know exactly when to be there.

Highpass might be the sole exception because the respawn rate is absolutely mad. Back on Live you'd ALWAYS find a group camping Orcs and Gnolls. The xp was good, money loot good, and the items are great for their level! On P99 though? Well, Green n Teal have people doing Orcs, but Gnolls seem to be mostly untouched. Both mob types drop rawhide and ringmail and with vendors being just around the corner, that makes it a pretty darn decent place for cash :)


I tried for two hours to put a gnoll group together today and no one was interested :(

[tripbunny]

Why not have even ZEM across all fields?

All non dungeon outdoor zones the same ex. 75
All dungeon outdoor zones the same ex. 120
All dungeon non outdoor zones the same ex. 140

[Lone Gnome]

highest zem is unrest, high keep and kedge keep

[loramin]

I believe the devs have explicitly said (although I think this happened ages ago and unfortunately I don't have a good quote for it) that the ZEMs on Blue (and presumably on Green) are NOT classic. This has been true for most if not all of the project's 10 year history.

As I understand it (and as with anything, this could well be wrong, but the devs don't like to talk to us about it to clarify), "everyone" knows the live ZEMs. By using a banned/cheat program called ShowEQ, you could essentially see exactly what they were back on live. So the devs changed them (how much? no one knows).

Perhaps because the decision was made so early on, it radically conflicts with the mantra of P99 ... or at least what used to be the mantra; Green has sort of changed it. It used to be: CLASSIC OR DIE! Nilbog used to say stuff about how he'd do whatever it took to make things work like they did in '99, and screw players, screw their knowledge, and screw their opinions. P99 was going to be classic even if that meant no one wanted to play on it.

But again, in perhaps a preview of what would come with Green, the staff made an "executive decision", and decided not to have classic ZEMs. Again, as I understand it, the rationale was player knowledge: "everyone knows the ZEMs now, and they didn't on live, so we'll change them here to restore mystery".

Was it the right decision? All I can say is I've never once, in the (quite possibly hundreds of) threads I've read that discussed ZEMs ...not ONCE ... ever heard anyone say "YAY, P99 ZEMs rock ... they have unclassic mystery!" ;) I've never heard anyone say anything positive about them at all really.

It seems to me that if they went with classic ZEMs they'd at least make the classicists happy. If they went with sane/logical ZEMs, that balanced the other aspects (loot, casters, etc.) of a dungeon, I think the vast vast majority of players would be happy, but classicists less so. If they made ZEMs dynamic, based on population or something, the classicists would have a heart attack ... and so would the players that want the "best" game possible, only their heart attack would be in joy.

But keeping the current ZEMs? Does that even make Nilbog happy anymore?

[Wwen42]

I believe the devs have explicitly said (although I think this happened ages ago and unfortunately I don't have a good quote for it) that the ZEMs on Blue (and presumably on Green) are NOT classic. This has been true for most if not all of the project's 10 year history.

As I understand it (and as with anything, this could well be wrong, but the devs don't like to talk to us about it to clarify), "everyone" knows the live ZEMs. By using a banned/cheat program called ShowEQ, you could essentially see exactly what they were back on live. So the devs changed them (how much? no one knows).

Perhaps because the decision was made so early on, it radically conflicts with the mantra of P99 ... or at least what used to be the mantra; Green has sort of changed it. It used to be: CLASSIC OR DIE! Nilbog used to say stuff about how he'd do whatever it took to make things work like they did in '99, and screw players, screw their knowledge, and screw their opinions. P99 was going to be classic even if that meant no one wanted to play on it.

But again, in perhaps a preview of what would come with Green, the staff made an "executive decision", and decided not to have classic ZEMs. Again, as I understand it, the rationale was player knowledge: "everyone knows the ZEMs now, and they didn't on live, so we'll change them here to restore mystery".

Was it the right decision? All I can say is I've never once, in the (quite possibly hundreds of) threads I've read discussion P99 ZEMs ...not ONCE ... ever heard anyone say "YAY, P99 ZEMs rock ... they have unclassic mystery!" ;) I've never heard anyone say anything positive about them at all really.

It seems to me that if they went with classic ZEMs they'd at least make the classicists happy. If they went with sane/logical ZEMs, that balanced the other aspects (loot, casters, etc.) of a dungeon, I think the vast vast majority of players would be happy, but classicists less so. If they made ZEMs dynamic, based on population or something, the classicists would have a heart attack ... and so would the players that want the "best" game possible, only their heart attack would be in joy.

But keeping the current ZEMs? Does that even make Nilbog happy?

As other have explained I think, ZEM alone isn't the draw. Some dungeons are just not worth the effort. So it's a combination of ZEM design and risk/reward of the zone. IMO, I don't come for "classic" I have nostalgia for the good stuff. If someone made slight changes to the bad stuff, that'd make it even better. Runnyeye being a place to actually go at-level would be cool even if we only went there in 1999 when everything was green.

I enjoy my time on p1999 and I'm thankful it's around. I just had to make peace with the grognard "classic" business of even keeping broken things. /shrug I'm way too lazy to make my own server and also lack the knowledge.

[port9001]

Just my opinion but I think the "classic" vision of ZEMs allows for their reassignment. They were always a lever to get people off the well beaten leveling paths. It would seem perfectly classic to me if P99 devs reassigned ZEMs to less popular zones among the current playerbase.

I also think it doesn't make sense for them to be a hidden mechanic. You want people to know where the high ZEMs are so they go to those places, assuming you've correctly assigned them to less popular zones. Not publishing the values works against this idea.

[Lammy]

we should move valuable item drops to different zones and mobs too, that will really classic it up with some mystery.

[Wurl]

It seems to me that if they went with classic ZEMs they'd at least make the classicists happy. If they went with sane/logical ZEMs, that balanced the other aspects (loot, casters, etc.) of a dungeon, I think the vast vast majority of players would be happy, but classicists less so. If they made ZEMs dynamic, based on population or something, the classicists would have a heart attack ... and so would the players that want the "best" game possible, only their heart attack would be in joy.

But keeping the current ZEMs? Does that even make Nilbog happy anymore?
Great post and I agree.

[cd288]

But again, in perhaps a preview of what would come with Green, the staff made an "executive decision", and decided not to have classic ZEMs. Again, as I understand it, the rationale was player knowledge: "everyone knows the ZEMs now, and they didn't on live, so we'll change them here to restore mystery".

I'm kind of confused. Apologies if I'm missing something but the current ZEMs are known. Was that just something people have figured out over time thus thwarting the player knowledge point?

[cd288]

As other have explained I think, ZEM alone isn't the draw. Some dungeons are just not worth the effort. So it's a combination of ZEM design and risk/reward of the zone. IMO, I don't come for "classic" I have nostalgia for the good stuff. If someone made slight changes to the bad stuff, that'd make it even better. Runnyeye being a place to actually go at-level would be cool even if we only went there in 1999 when everything was green.

I enjoy my time on p1999 and I'm thankful it's around. I just had to make peace with the grognard "classic" business of even keeping broken things. /shrug I'm way too lazy to make my own server and also lack the knowledge.

Eh, idk. I think if you throw a 200% ZEM on something people will definitely populate it. The exception is probably dungeons requiring multiple keys to get through, due to the danger of losing your corpse there, but I think anywhere else people would hang out there if it was in like the top 5 ZEMs.

[loramin]

I'm kind of confused. Apologies if I'm missing something but the current ZEMs are known. Was that just something people have figured out over time thus thwarting the player knowledge point?

I suspect you're being confused by the wiki, which shows the classic/non-P99 ZEMs. For instance, if you are referring to the http://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide, you may want to read the bottom:

* All experience bonuses are per the Recommended Levels and ZEM List, except that they've been converted in to percentages (with 75 ZEM = 100% of normal XP bonus). These ZEMs are known to be out of date and inaccurate, but no better information exists.

Or maybe you're thinking of the page that note references, the Recommended Levels and ZEM List (http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List)? Again, if you look you'll see that there's a ZEM section (http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List#Zone_Experience_Mu ltiplier_.28ZEM.29) ...

In the old days of live EQ the server sent the actual ZEM values, which were recorded by studious players. These values were used as a basis for the EQEmu numbers, and so are in place on most stock EQEmu servers. These numbers were never known to have changed over the history of classic EQ live.

The developers of p1999 have stated that they will not publicly release the current ZEM list, in the spirit of classic EQ.

The "stock" values given here, which may be representative as a whole, have definitely been changed in some zones.

[Skosh]

I could understand why the staff sharply reduced the ZEM to both Lake of Ill Omen and the Overthere due to bards swarming and doing PL for cash (digital coin. right. that's what I meant). It just came as a surprise when I was leveling in Lake of Ill Omen and noticed right off that the exp was way lower than the 1999-2000 era. The real shock though was when Kedge had its exp modifier nerfed on Blue. That dungeon always sucked balls to deal with and seemed worth checking out when it had its full ZEM applied.

[Gustoo]

Yeah kedge always zero pop or 1 druid or enchy and 1 cleric roughing it hard in the danger zone.

[cd288]

I suspect you're being confused by the wiki, which shows the classic/non-P99 ZEMs. For instance, if you are referring to the http://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide, you may want to read the bottom:



Or maybe you're thinking of the page that note references, the Recommended Levels and ZEM List (http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List)? Again, if you look you'll see that there's a ZEM section (http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List#Zone_Experience_Mu ltiplier_.28ZEM.29) ...

Yes definitely have read those disclaimers. But, at least on Blue, if you go to the high ZEM zones and solo a mob and then go to a lower ZEM zone and solo a mob of the same level, you will see a higher EXP gain from the mob in the high ZEM zone. So these must be accurate to a certain extent (at least insofar as the zones in the list that have high ZEMs...maybe there are other high ZEM zones that we aren't aware of for instance).

For example as well, if you're leveling in Kurn's the EXP is absolutely way faster than a zone with like a 75 ZEM on the list. So there must be some accuracy as to those being the high ZEM zones, but maybe the numbers themselves are off somewhat.

[loramin]

The real shock though was when Kedge had its exp modifier nerfed on Blue. That dungeon always sucked balls to deal with and seemed worth checking out when it had its full ZEM applied.

Again, I've never once heard any one express anything positive/enthusiastic about P99's ZEMs, and I think Kedge is the perfect example of why. It's unclassically low, an incredibly hard dungeon just based on the mobs, the loot is crap, and then there's that whole giant PITA "it's underwater" aspect. Nobody wins!

Classicists lose because it's not classic. Everyone else loses because no one goes there. And I say this as someone who has 8x Driftwood Treasure Chests (each of which takes about 100 sharks, 22 min apart): I've spent many days in that zone, and I've pretty much only ever seen people there to get an epic piece and get out.

Now, that particular zone is a little anomalous: I think it used to have a better (and more classic) ZEM, then someone abused something, and the staff's reaction was to nuke the zone. But it's also a perfect representation of how the current ZEM scheme isn't good for anyone.

[loramin]

Yes definitely have read those disclaimers. But, at least on Blue, if you go to the high ZEM zones and solo a mob and then go to a lower ZEM zone and solo a mob of the same level, you will see a higher EXP gain from the mob in the high ZEM zone. So these must be accurate to a certain extent (at least insofar as the zones in the list that have high ZEMs...maybe there are other high ZEM zones that we aren't aware of for instance).

For example as well, if you're leveling in Kurn's the EXP is absolutely way faster than a zone with like a 75 ZEM on the list. So there must be some accuracy as to those being the high ZEM zones, but maybe the numbers themselves are off somewhat.

Well so, the P99 numbers did start with the classic number, and that's precisely why the wiki still uses them: many of them are correct.

But some of them aren't, and no one really knows which (aside from extreme examples like Kurn's, and even that no one knows the exact ZEM of: we just know it's "good"). Without ShowEQ (which the staff blocks much more effectively than Verant ever did), it's virtually impossible to determine what they actually are, and in that sense the staff has achieved a victory: there is (some) "mystery".

I just don't see anything else good coming out of the current ZEMs other than that "mystery" though. And I think the vast, vast majority of players would happily trade that mystery for either "more classic-nes" or a better game.