Cleric vs Paladin

[flame2719]

I'm just starting my first experience with p1999 after not having played EQ in about 10 years. I'm trying to decide between rolling a cleric or a paladin on green/teal. I'm leaning more toward paladin because I like to be a snowflake, but definitely not against playing a cleric instead. I have no experience playing either class, as I was strictly a wizard during my time playing EQ.

My main concern is that I can only play sporadically during the week, which means I'll have to be able to solo to some extent. I don't need either class to be great at soloing, I just need it to be possible. I know paladin is probably not going to be easy for soloing but wondering if it's at least doable. Opinions are greatly appreciated, as I am feeling like a total noob. :confused:

[Naxy]

Clerics can’t really solo anything unless it is undead pretty early in their career. Then it is nearly a full load of mana per mob. Then you sit and med up. I’d argue that if soloing is the criteria for you the neither class is suitable. I have a cleric purely for groupwork and a Druid for soloing and be able to get around.

[pink grapefruit]

Please play a paladin. We need tanks out here dear god.

Don't roll as dwarf tho they're the absolute worst.

[A1551]

cleric is a solid choice. They really are *pretty decent* soloers vs undead, given the understanding that it is boring, it is basically root nuke med. THere are plenty of people out there who leveled clerics totally solo more or less just nuking undead, it really as far as soloing classes goes is better than many. You know this but it is also an amazing group class and a great way to make a bunch of friends when you don't know anyone coming to a server new!

If your criteria is "I wanna group mainly but want the option to solo at least somewhat effectively" they are a great bet!

[Raclen]

Clerics can’t really solo anything unless it is undead pretty early in their career. Then it is nearly a full load of mana per mob. Then you sit and med up. I’d argue that if soloing is the criteria for you the neither class is suitable. I have a cleric purely for groupwork and a Druid for soloing and be able to get around.

Cleric nukes vs undead are as efficient as any other classes nukes in the game, plus they get buffs, heals, can melee okay, root, lull. They are pretty good solo actually.

[Evia]

I'm playing a Paladin and I can tell you tanking is rough right now.
Even with full banded and a cracked darkwood shield I can get wrecked pretty quickly and the poor healers have a tough time catching up. To be fair tho I do usually have a druid or shaman healing me.

As far as fun is concerned? having an absolute blast! tanking, spot healing, pulling, ghetto buffing and clutch LoH moments. I would definitely recommend the class!

[Keza]

Well if there's two criteria, being unique and being able to solo, then the only result is paladin. Clerics aren't unique and neither class can solo well, but clerics need a raid drop, Dawnstar, to solo (undead) effectively whereas paladins only need a Guk drop, Ghoulbane, to do so.

There's a side argument to make in that you have limited time, and pallies may not be overly welcome in groups with their penalty and inability to tank until mid-levels.

[BlackBellamy]

If your requirement is to "solo to some extent" and not "I just blew everything I had on this one mob and now I can look for a group while I heal/med up" then neither is a good option for you. I mean a paladin can solo easier I guess, not having played one, but if you played a wizard on live than soloing these two probably won't be like you remember, especially at higher levels.

[flame2719]

I guess it would help if I clarified. I am able to play sporadically at work, so I have time to kill a mob or two, take a break and come back a few minutes later. I just want to be able to do that but I'm not sure if a leveling paladin would be able to kill mobs that give xp before they kill him.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

cleric is a solid choice. They really are *pretty decent* soloers vs undead, given the understanding that it is boring, it is basically root nuke med. THere are plenty of people out there who leveled clerics totally solo more or less just nuking undead, it really as far as soloing classes goes is better than many. You know this but it is also an amazing group class and a great way to make a bunch of friends when you don't know anyone coming to a server new!

If your criteria is "I wanna group mainly but want the option to solo at least somewhat effectively" they are a great bet!
Hag tower in unrest comes to mind. Perfect place for Clerics to solo

[Vizax_Xaziv]

If your requirement is to "solo to some extent" and not "I just blew everything I had on this one mob and now I can look for a group while I heal/med up" then neither is a good option for you. I mean a paladin can solo easier I guess, not having played one, but if you played a wizard on live than soloing these two probably won't be like you remember, especially at higher levels.

Cleric will solo far better than Paladin purely by virtue of being a caster over melee

[FatherSioux]

Cleric nukes vs undead are as efficient as any other classes nukes in the game, plus they get buffs, heals, can melee okay, root, lull. They are pretty good solo actually.

[kaluppo]

If you decide to roll a cleric I recommend you roll it on Teal and not green. There is a heavy population of Druids and Clerics on green so getting groups there is harder. I sat on Green for two hours unable to group my cleric and did the /move to teal where I got a group in 15 minutes.

If you go Paladin however then I highly recommend Green because it has a high population of players but a shortage of tanks. You would be most sought after for grouping.

[flame2719]

How does a ranger fare solo vs a paladin? I know they can fill in as a tank in a pinch in groups, but thought maybe they would have a bit easier of a time soloing when time is short.

[Pyrion]

Rangers do have one option to solo very efficiently with animals. Snare it, panic it and whack it from behind. Rangers can also split camps when outside (harmony) and since they have sow, at least outside they are pretty safe.

As for being tanks, rangers obviously are less armoured than other melee classes. If healing is not an issue, rangers are (arguably) even better at generating aggro than SKs or pallies. Flame lick and snare are very good aggro spells, both very cheap. And rangers are the best at aggro kiting, if tanking is too dangerous (and enough space is available).

Even better at almost anything a ranger can do is a bard though.

[Ivory]

How does a ranger fare solo vs a paladin? I know they can fill in as a tank in a pinch in groups, but thought maybe they would have a bit easier of a time soloing when time is short.

Rangers are, BY FAR, the best soloers in the game in the 1-50 game.... No other class comes even remotely close.

At 50, fighting higher level things (especially casters), it evens out a bit more.

[Cen]

Rangers are, BY FAR, the best soloers in the game in the 1-50 game.... No other class comes even remotely close.

At 50, fighting higher level things (especially casters), it evens out a bit more.

?

[Ivory]

?

Archery!!! Rangers have high skill with it....great access to bows (early on trueshot is plenty, and later the upgraded version just gives them more luxury in range....allowing them to do stuff like solo level 50 casters outdoors).

They get root at 15, which lets them root rot stuff easily with archery indoors. (Flame lick + their DD line of spells + archery is fairly good damage).

They kill a little slower than other classes this way....BUT they make up for it with no downtime and the ability to kill FAR FAR over their level (for normal exp hunting, it can be worth it to take down +8 level targets....takes longer, but the exp is pretty good).

Basically, in classic world....archery rangers are BEASTS in terms of power. They can casually kill just about everything...and the ability to self-sow and invis and a range of other utility spells makes them just great all around.

Like my level 7 ranger was going through karanas the other day....saw the ghoul messenger up (deep red, level 28 i think).....and I just shrugged and started shooting. Ran into someone else soon after who helped melee, but it was agro on me most the time from the damage I'd been doing (once i get flame lick, they make GREAT duo partners with a pet class to arrow kite stuff with).

I've played a lot of things, and archery has always been the most crazy in terms of breaking the rules of the game. "Oh, was that red? I didn't notice" type of power. Even necromancers and shamans need to watch their targets...

[Swish]

A ranger without items handed to him from higher dungeons is a sad state of humanity.

[FatherSioux]

Kiting deep reds for 45 minutes isn't efficient, it sounds fun though.

[Tecmos Deception]

Archery!!! Rangers have high skill with it....great access to bows (early on trueshot is plenty, and later the upgraded version just gives them more luxury in range....allowing them to do stuff like solo level 50 casters outdoors).

They get root at 15, which lets them root rot stuff easily with archery indoors. (Flame lick + their DD line of spells + archery is fairly good damage).

They kill a little slower than other classes this way....BUT they make up for it with no downtime and the ability to kill FAR FAR over their level (for normal exp hunting, it can be worth it to take down +8 level targets....takes longer, but the exp is pretty good).

Basically, in classic world....archery rangers are BEASTS in terms of power. They can casually kill just about everything...and the ability to self-sow and invis and a range of other utility spells makes them just great all around.

Like my level 7 ranger was going through karanas the other day....saw the ghoul messenger up (deep red, level 28 i think).....and I just shrugged and started shooting. Ran into someone else soon after who helped melee, but it was agro on me most the time from the damage I'd been doing (once i get flame lick, they make GREAT duo partners with a pet class to arrow kite stuff with).

I've played a lot of things, and archery has always been the most crazy in terms of breaking the rules of the game. "Oh, was that red? I didn't notice" type of power. Even necromancers and shamans need to watch their targets...

That a ranger can whittle down a red con in a zone with a lot of room to kite in doesn't make it the best solo class 1-50.

[Gustoo]

Panicnanimal only comesmout in velious for rangers.

So fear kiting is better. With FD it's even better

[Lojik]

Rangers do have one option to solo very efficiently with animals. Snare it, panic it and whack it from behind. Rangers can also split camps when outside (harmony) and since they have sow, at least outside they are pretty safe.

As for being tanks, rangers obviously are less armoured than other melee classes. If healing is not an issue, rangers are (arguably) even better at generating aggro than SKs or pallies. Flame lick and snare are very good aggro spells, both very cheap. And rangers are the best at aggro kiting, if tanking is too dangerous (and enough space is available).

Even better at almost anything a ranger can do is a bard though.

No panic animal for rangers until velious

[Ivory]

That a ranger can whittle down a red con in a zone with a lot of room to kite in doesn't make it the best solo class 1-50.

But it does make it one of the few classes that can do that effectively.

When fighting level appropriate things (stuff that won't resist spells) they ramp up a LOT in terms of speed of kills. Making exp flow faster than any other class (since there is no downtime).

It isn't just "ok, you can kill a red in an hour of slowly whittling it down"....it's much much more effective than that.

[Tecmos Deception]

But it does make it one of the few classes that can do that effectively.

When fighting level appropriate things (stuff that won't resist spells) they ramp up a LOT in terms of speed of kills. Making exp flow faster than any other class (since there is no downtime).

It isn't just "ok, you can kill a red in an hour of slowly whittling it down"....it's much much more effective than that.

Lol.

If you had said "rangers are the best class for kiting noncasters in zones with tons of open space" then I wouldn't have disagreed with you. Although it'd be pretty reasonable to argue about bards or rangers in that situation.

But you didn't say that. You said rangers were the best soloers 1-50. How do you solo casters? How do you solo in dungeons? Right. You can't at all. You can hardly have the appelation of "best solo class" when you can't solo anything except the easiest mobs in the easiest zones, even if you can do some neat stuff with archery in those situations.


I'd be curious to see exactly (you know, logs or videos) how fast an X level ranger can kill a Y level red con with archery. I'm quite skeptical it is going to put them at a better exp rate over time than a well-played chanter or necro or some other classes.

[Glarkus31]

I used to solo with my Paladin on live during the classic to Velious days all the time. Mostly in LGuk against the undead though. Soloing with a Paladin can be tough and I was lucky enough to have a Deepwater Helm. It can be done and it can be rewarding.

[Ivory]

But you didn't say that. You said rangers were the best soloers 1-50. How do you solo casters? How do you solo in dungeons? Right. You can't at all. You can hardly have the appelation of "best solo class" when you can't solo anything except the easiest mobs in the easiest zones, even if you can do some neat stuff with archery in those situations.


I'd be curious to see exactly (you know, logs or videos) how fast an X level ranger can kill a Y level red con with archery. I'm quite skeptical it is going to put them at a better exp rate over time than a well-played chanter or necro or some other classes.

You can solo inside of dungeons....easily. Without much room. Root and back up a couple steps and go to town with arrows. But, again, without the downtime of other classes.

It isn't just killing "easy mobs in easy zones", it is a lot stronger than that.

I've leveled besides necros in their 30's with an archer (that had a bow the strength of a trueshot).....and I was easily passing them by with my ability to solo.

The thing is that rangers are a fairly rare class....and rangers that even bother to TRY to do stuff with archery is even rarer.

[Palemoon]

Paladin, even a non-twinked one, can solo. Its slow but at least its better than rogue/warrior. Helps to do so vs. undead and spam your ward undead line nuke nonstop as you are fighting. Yes you will be oom, but its more efficient than swinging on a mob and SLOWLY killing it, then having to heal and med anyways.

I had to do this on red as a paladin sometimes, again new server so not twinked.

Cleric can solo way better though because better undead nuke.

[flacidpenguin]

Clerics heal, Paladin's tank. Both are excellent class choices.

[Tecmos Deception]

You can solo inside of dungeons....easily. Without much room. Root and back up a couple steps and go to town with arrows. But, again, without the downtime of other classes.

It isn't just killing "easy mobs in easy zones", it is a lot stronger than that.

I've leveled besides necros in their 30's with an archer (that had a bow the strength of a trueshot).....and I was easily passing them by with my ability to solo.

The thing is that rangers are a fairly rare class....and rangers that even bother to TRY to do stuff with archery is even rarer.

I'd like to see logs or video of these sorts of archery kills.

[AegnorP99]

I think paladins are underrated soloers. They do suffer from low dps, but their survivability is almost unmatched. They've got a lot of tools to be successful in a lot of zones. Lulls and roots are great for camp splitting and crowd control. Stuns and bash make short work of caster mobs. IVU makes travel through otherwise deadly areas like LGuk a breeze. They can wear the best armor and stack hp and AC buffs as well. And obviously heals reduce downtime considerably.

They're not top tier soloers by any means, but they are definitely capable. And they bring tremendous value to groups as one of the top 2 group tanks in the game, so it's not like soloing is all you'll do.

[Baler]

My vote is for cleric.

Higher in demand, especially end game.
solo via-undead camps

..Paladin = flash of light, lay on hands, Divine Strength.

[FatherSioux]

So far my experience on Teal so far is that 75% of people are playing Priests. Use that knowledge to your own liking.

[greenspectre]

As a former Paladin on live during Kunark/Velious era, I second the affirmation that paladins are capable of soloing. When Kunark comes out and you have Deepwater Helm it gets much easier, but it's still quite doable. Just grab your 2hs and nuke undead between swings.

Obviously, as a PAL or CLR, though, you are pretty firmly locked into undead-only zones. So newbie zones, then Unrest, then Lguk, and you will essentially LIVE in Lguk 30-50. That, I would say, is the worst part. I used to joke that my pally got his mail delivered to Lguk because he spent so much time there. And it can be a frustrating experience, where you're soloing and you get the itch to try another zone, spend the time journeying there, pop your LFG tag, get nothing, and eventually give up and have to go back to Lguk.

Also, you don't have runspeed OR invis vs live. Getting around is a huge pain.

[Danger]

there is nothing more sad than a paladin soloing. Remember auto attacking that first decaying skeleton after you made your character? Thats about it. Throw in some Yaulp casts and maybe root jousting if you're feeling spicy. Deepwater helm won't be in your inventory for like two years and 3 years for the natures defender.

imho paladin is a really dope class in the LONG run, as in you want to play and gear one into Velious but imho you got to be really into it the idea of playing a paladin. its a lot of effort for not as much return as you'd get from other classes. its my favorite class but its not for the lukewarm.

A cleric is going to be more useful overall and more capable of soloing undead plus just being able to bind/gate is so huge for limited play time. Paladins are the least mobile class in the game.

Anyone unironically telling you to bow solo shit as a ranger in classic should be ignored.