Are open areas FTE

[Archythagoras]

Ran into a very rude dark elf trying to claim an entire area of spawns in the hills of Queynos.

The sad thing was watching him sit there letting a pet aggro everything, refusing to group.

[Tecmos Deception]

Exp mobs aren't fte, no. It kinda feels that way as people cover a large area or chase wandering mobs and try to engage first, but some of these mobs can be claimed in camps (I'm no guide but the undead ruins in qeynos hills seems like a camp, the two ranger dudes evils like to kill near surefall would be a camp, etc) or individuals (if you park on the spawn). And trying to fte a mob in those situations would likely get you in trouble.

But a group trying to say a random circle of ground in an outdoor zone is their "camp" so you can't grab stuff out of it that they don't immediately engage on the spawn point isn't correct either.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

it depends apparently

[cd288]

Ran into a very rude dark elf trying to claim an entire area of spawns in the hills of Queynos.

The sad thing was watching him sit there letting a pet aggro everything, refusing to group.

DE is definitely in the wrong here. Technically rises to the level of zone disruption to try and monopolize spawns by running around having your pet aggro everything while you aggro other stuff and try and claim it that way

[Archythagoras]

This guy was basically claiming the entire area outside of Blackfang Burrow, so they also dropped gnoll fangs, so not sure if this falls under xp mobs.

[Tecmos Deception]

This guy was basically claiming the entire area outside of Blackfang Burrow, so they also dropped gnoll fangs, so not sure if this falls under xp mobs.

I'd be shocked if a guide/gm said you can claim those like, 7-8 gnolls that are in sight od the entrance as one camp, especially given the circumstances of the new server launch.

[NegaStoat]

In all outdoor areas, only a single spawn point can be 'camped' and be protected as such by a Guide or GM. If you are camping the dock dwarves in butcherblock and someone wants some, even though you have all spawns cleared? It's time to share. If you are doing the same thing in Lesser Faydark at the sister camp and someone wants some? Yup. Time to share again. Because only one can be an enforced camp.

I personally would never muscle in to an obvious camp location like the sentient suits in Wakened Lands or something but I'm only referring to the server rules and what a GM or Guide will handle. In the OP's situation, the necro was full of beans and should be referred to the rules, and learn how to share.

[Tecmos Deception]

Really? A group that can handle it technically cant claim the ogres in wk as a camp? A solo couldn't claim both guards at a tower? A group can't claim orc 1?

An actual ruling to that effect would surprise me.

[cd288]

Really? A group that can handle it technically cant claim the ogres in wk as a camp? A solo couldn't claim both guards at a tower? A group can't claim orc 1?

An actual ruling to that effect would surprise me.

Technically another group could come and ask to kill one or more of the spawns. If a petition were created because the two parties could not come to an agreement, a CSR member could potentially show up and force a compromise between the two such as splitting the camp in half.

[cd288]

In all outdoor areas, only a single spawn point can be 'camped' and be protected as such by a Guide or GM. If you are camping the dock dwarves in butcherblock and someone wants some, even though you have all spawns cleared? It's time to share.

I’m laughing since on Blue a few months back I said this exact same thing to a Kittens member who was refusing to share not only any of the Kaladim Citizen dwarves, but was also laying claim to the fishermen.

When I discussed this with multiple Kittens officers, their response was essentially to shrug and laugh at me and say good luck if I wanted to try and petition.

[FungusTrooper]

What about the 2 koalandi in Qey? Can those be camped by single very rude people?

[galach]

There's two basic zone categories.
Open outdoor zones and dungeon type zones.

Open outdoor zones could be anything from the Karanas, Wastes or Commons.

Dungeon type zones could be anything from MM, COM, hhk, Guks, or Sebilis.


These are very basic guidelines when it comes to camps in this game.

For open outdoor zones you can claim a single spawn point. This may include SF, Hadden or OOT AC. If you're camping these mobs you need to get FTE within a reasonable amount of time.

For dungeon type zones our general guideline is line of sight(LOS)/agro range. This works for pretty much everything. Couple exemptions may be Fungi King or Captain in Karnors because it's not exactly practical to camp on top or within LOS/agro range of their spawns.


Also keep in mind, above is how we as staff see it. There's also player defined camps out there we don't enforce but HIGHLY encourage players follow. Player defined camps may include Sisters in lfay or Gnoll Spires in SK.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2903516&postcount=12%7C


Outdoor area = can camp 1 spawn.

[NegaStoat]

Galach kindly chimed in and backed up my understanding of it, here's some carefully archived information on the current P1999 hokey pokey.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules

http://wiki.project1999.com/Rulings

Enjoy. It's my sincerest hope that all 3 to 3.5 k total players on Green have given them a read.

[Videri]

One thing I've always wondered about the "can camp 1 spawn point outdoors" rule: if there are 6 players in my group, can each of us camp 1 spawn? And pull it to the group?

[Archythagoras]

I’m laughing since on Blue a few months back I said this exact same thing to a Kittens member who was refusing to share not only any of the Kaladim Citizen dwarves, but was also laying claim to the fishermen.

When I discussed this with multiple Kittens officers, their response was essentially to shrug and laugh at me and say good luck if I wanted to try and petition.

This dark elf threatened me with a petition to try and strong arm me, I didn't buy it.

I am still sitting at gnolls and he is long gone.

[NegaStoat]

I’m laughing since on Blue a few months back I said this exact same thing to a Kittens member who was refusing to share not only any of the Kaladim Citizen dwarves, but was also laying claim to the fishermen.

When I discussed this with multiple Kittens officers, their response was essentially to shrug and laugh at me and say good luck if I wanted to try and petition.

The outdoors 'one player, one spawn point camped' rule was in its infancy when it was applied to me. I was camping dwarves with my old DE necromancer by the docks and was killing all 4 of the visible ones dead and on a timer. Another player showed up and started to attack the spawns as they came in, one at a time, after I had already attacked and pulled a given target. I told the other player to take off, as I had all 4 camped and killed on rotation, and they pretended to not understand English and continued to disrupt my camp.

I made the mistake of petitioning to explain the situation and have the other player move on. Bracknar told me I got to have 2, in this case, since it was a single other player contesting and there were 4 available, but also explained the 'one outdoors' rule. The other player ended up dying repeatedly due to some very strange circumstances that might have involved Feign Death and I moved along the road. It wasn't worth the hassle.

[BlackBellamy]

One thing I've always wondered about the "can camp 1 spawn point outdoors" rule: if there are 6 players in my group, can each of us camp 1 spawn? And pull it to the group?

Silly camping rules lol. Ok how about if a group of four is camping a 4x spawn. A single player comes along, then another, then another. Now three players have a spawn point each, and the original four have just one.

[Archythagoras]

Silly camping rules lol. Ok how about if a group of four is camping a 4x spawn. A single player comes along, then another, then another. Now three players have a spawn point each, and the original four have just one.

Even the ancient Greek philosophers of the times of old could not solve such a conundrum.

[Videri]

Silly camping rules lol. Ok how about if a group of four is camping a 4x spawn. A single player comes along, then another, then another. Now three players have a spawn point each, and the original four have just one.

Exactly. Surely that isn't fair. If it were, the players in the group would separate into 4 non-grouped players, each killing 1 spawn. Then, they might as well form a group...

[Reecon]

its simple, u gotta be at the spawn to claim it and remain there, if you are pulling it to another spot to kill it for the group then u arent camping it, by your logic you could technically hold more then 1 spawn as a person as well if u just pulled your mob to another spawn spot and killed it there til the next one popped. To hold a outdoor spawn camp you gotta remain at said spawn.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The other player ended up dying repeatedly due to some very strange circumstances that might have involved Feign Death

*rubs chin*

Hmmmmm... mysterious indeed.

[Amendale]

So here is one from Qeynos Hills: mage is camping putrid skeleton spawn point, parks the pet, and leaves vicinity (assuming to sell loot). Does his pet hold the camp?

[Benanov]

I think "it depends" - Honorable players may allow the presence of a pet whose owner they know (as in, they walked by the camp before and found it taken) to mark the "I'm still here, just went to sell" case.

If the owner isn't back in a reasonable amount of time I might send them a tell. If no response... greyer area.

I might consider the camp mine depending on the length of spawns. If the owner's AFK for half an hour and the spawn's 6 minutes...that's pretty clearly "not camped anymore"

[kotton05]

This dark elf threatened me with a petition to try and strong arm me, I didn't buy it.

I am still sitting at gnolls and he is long gone.

Best bet is to play nice and record your play for further elf lawyering

[Gustoo]

Blue problems, rough life 2019

Take that shit to trial

https://youtu.be/sIRmMGrWvqM

[Wwen42]

You have to record? Screen shots of text aren't enough? Aren't there logs of the chats?

[kotton05]

Perhaps they could be enough in some situations but you have no clue what he’s telling the GM and an actual recording of what is happening will allow less room for lies or twisting the truth. Therefor getting a more accurate ruling.

[BlackBellamy]

So here is one from Qeynos Hills: mage is camping putrid skeleton spawn point, parks the pet, and leaves vicinity (assuming to sell loot). Does his pet hold the camp?

An honorable player would not claim a spawn he was not within 550 distance units of, because once you're off the experience leash, then you're just farming. Anyway, the rules say 'you' must hold the spawn and I think the GMs would agree that pet doesn't equal you.

[Wwen42]

An honorable player would not claim a spawn he was not within 550 distance units of, because once you're off the experience leash, then you're just farming. Anyway, the rules say 'you' must hold the spawn and I think the GMs would agree that pet doesn't equal you.

In this case the pet owner isn't there to see you kill the skelington any. ;)

[Danger]

Ran into a very rude dark elf trying to claim an entire area of spawns in the hills of Queynos.

The sad thing was watching him sit there letting a pet aggro everything, refusing to group.

https://i.imgur.com/OZ7jrpm.png

[Deathrydar]

https://i.imgur.com/OZ7jrpm.png
Stop trying to make EQ PvP happen. It's not going to happen.

[Danger]

see? my meme is accurate

[Deathrydar]

see? my meme is accurate

It absolutely is. The reason that you put it up is where your confusion lies.

[Gustoo]

https://i.imgur.com/OZ7jrpm.png

Quoting for best thing ever posted.

[loramin]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules

This!

The staff is in no way constrained by their past rulings ... but they're also huge on keeping us players in the dark about how the rules actually work. Essentially I think they'd rather we all live in fear, not knowing exactly what will get us in trouble and thus (in theory) making us all act on our best behavior ... than start spelling things out and then getting "rules lawyered" when they try to enforce good behavior.

Even just making that camp rules page was a bit of a nightmare, as I had to go digging through every quote a GM had ever said in the forums, just to find the few ones where they sort-of-kind-of made an explicit ruling (not even on purpose, but just in the process of talking about the rules in a post).

So when the Play Nice Policies (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349) aren't clear about something, there's not much else we can do except check and see if any relevant rulings exist on:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules

EDIT: In defense of the staff, they've actually greatly improved things in this regard over time. If you check Google Cache or the Wayback Machine and compare old versions of the Play Nice Policies, you'll see the new ones are MUCH clearer and more explicit (eg. much of the current "camp rules" in that document were added not too long ago by GM Llandris). So while they still have a general "keep the players ignorant" policy, they have heard how frustrating that is for us, and have improved the explicit rules as a result.

As for:
So here is one from Qeynos Hills: mage is camping putrid skeleton spawn point, parks the pet, and leaves vicinity (assuming to sell loot). Does his pet hold the camp?

The pet has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Have a pet, don't have a pet, leave it somewhere or don't, it won't in any way affect the Camp Rules (http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules).

What does affect them boils down to: did the Mage kill the mob the last time it spawned? If so it's his as long as he engages the next spawn in a reasonable amount of time, and doesn't die or leave the zone ... but if he doesn't engage it in a reasonable amount of time (and you want to be very careful about "reasonable", because if you guess wrong compared to the GM's definition, you'll be the one getting suspended), or if there is no one around in the first place (and again you want to make sure of this if you have any doubt), the mob goes to whoever engages it first.

And one important detail: when I say "it's his", I mean that AND any other spawns the guy killed previously: he can hold as many camps as he wants! ... right up until someone else shows up and says "hey I want one of those camps", at which point he has to pick one, let the other guy pick one, and then they FTE the rest.

But crucially, even if he's doing multiple spawns, you can't just show up and take one, because what if he wanted to keep the one you were going to take? You are ALWAYS better off if you just take a moment to talk to your fellow player first.

[Amendale]

The following is hypothetical to our Qeynos Hills example (I did not remain to watch). Skelly spawns, aggros pet, pet kills skellly. Clearly, pet is FTE, and has done so in a reasonable amount of time. But does this count as a "you" for purposes of the camp rules linked above? Assume the player is not afk but indeed running in game errands.

[Cuktus]

https://i.imgur.com/OZ7jrpm.png

For now, sure. But 15 months down the line and deleveled epic, fungi, buffed monks are slaughtering zones, corpse camping new players, teabagging, etc, green will become as dead as red. Because ya'll don't want pvp, you want to bully people off your server.

[Gustoo]

Deleveling doesn't have to be allowed, and epics can have level requirements. And thurg armor. very easy to mitigate.

If it was item loot you could loot that fungi and its a lot of fun trying.

If it was sullon rules there would be no deleveled guys, so problem solved too.

The photo is correct. Galatians 4:16.

[Jibartik]

Clicking last page on a thread like this is like sorting by controversial.

[loramin]

The following is hypothetical to our Qeynos Hills example (I did not remain to watch). Skelly spawns, aggros pet, pet kills skellly. Clearly, pet is FTE, and has done so in a reasonable amount of time. But does this count as a "you" for purposes of the camp rules linked above? Assume the player is not afk but indeed running in game errands.

I'm not a staff member and can't speak for them, but at that point I think that player is likely in violation of a different part of the Play Nice Policy (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349):

3. You may not kill NPC's while you are not at your PC.

It is against the rules to "afk camp" any NPC or groups of NPC's by placing a pet nearby and letting it kill while you are away from your computer. Any other form of "afk camping", such as faction killing, is also against the rules, and you may be subject to disciplinary action.

In addition to this rule, and further explained in section 5, you may not Forage items using any automated program (hardware or software).

And to the rules lawyers: yes it says "at your PC", and technically someone who parks their pet somewhere while they run errands is "at their PC" ... but it also says "Any other form ... is also against the rules."

Even if it didn't, the GMs are the ultimate authorities regardless, so what really matters is "would they be ok with it?"

Practically speaking, it'd be nearly impossible for someone to even catch them doing it if they don't go far to run their errands ... but if they go far enough to get caught, I'd think that'd be far enough away that a staff member would consider it "AFK camping".

[Danger]

huge book of rules, case law, and elf statutes, and contradictory staff rulings

VS

auto attack on

[Whirled]

I'm confused how quoting one of Paul's letters to the Galatians, when he was informing them that the pagan ways were not in their best interest, relates to EQ? Serious question...

[Yoink1986]

Yesssss. The toxicity will overcome green. Can’t wait for the RnF to rise up.

[chaos1990]

There's two basic zone categories.
Open outdoor zones and dungeon type zones.

Open outdoor zones could be anything from the Karanas, Wastes or Commons.

Dungeon type zones could be anything from MM, COM, hhk, Guks, or Sebilis.


These are very basic guidelines when it comes to camps in this game.

For open outdoor zones you can claim a single spawn point. This may include SF, Hadden or OOT AC. If you're camping these mobs you need to get FTE within a reasonable amount of time.

For dungeon type zones our general guideline is line of sight(LOS)/agro range. This works for pretty much everything. Couple exemptions may be Fungi King or Captain in Karnors because it's not exactly practical to camp on top or within LOS/agro range of their spawns.


Also keep in mind, above is how we as staff see it. There's also player defined camps out there we don't enforce but HIGHLY encourage players follow. Player defined camps may include Sisters in lfay or Gnoll Spires in SK.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2903516&postcount=12%7C


Outdoor area = can camp 1 spawn.

if two players can hold down all of pond LoS in MM you're cool with them denying 6+ people possible xp on a 2500 population server?

That isn't meant to be antagonizing in any way I'm curious how to handle the mage duos I see everywhere

[Videri]

I'm confused how quoting one of Paul's letters to the Galatians, when he was informing them that the pagan ways were not in their best interest, relates to EQ? Serious question...

The poster thinks he is like Jesus in that he is bringing a message he believes in to people who don’t believe in it.

[Whirled]

Yet you judge me, without knowing me, for sharing facts about a book? :confused:

[Videri]

Yet you judge me, without knowing me, for sharing facts about a book? :confused:

By “the poster” I meant Danger, who posted the meme.

I was not referring to you.

I should have replaced Jesus with Paul. I guessed the speaker was Jesus but I see you said it was Paul.

To rephrase:

Danger thinks he is like Paul in that he is bringing a message he believes in (pvp) to people who don’t believe in it (bluebies).

I was not saying that you, whirled, think you are like Jesus in that you are bringing a message (about the Christian bible) to people who do not believe in it.

[Teppler]

These are all the issues that I had long conversations with gm’s and guides with over the past few days. I talked to Khikik and llandris for hours. I did quit green because of camp issues and then the subsequents issues with staff took time for me to resolve and I’m just too low level to compete with top dogs of greens now. I can see the staff is trying though. It’s just it’s still very confusing and you can present these real situations and really wonder, what exactly are the rules here?

And if you don’t really know you could seriously get taken advantage of and never get any worthwhile camping situation.

Some people referenced the exact points I brought up. A group can’t claim orc 1 and be protected? Really? Is a group considered 1 entity or the number of entities that make up the group as in a group can be 6 entities thus taking 6 spawns. Is that how it works? Granted I haven’t read the whole thread and will now.

I’m still hopeful about playing whatever is the next new server.

[Danger]

Yet you judge me, without knowing me, for sharing facts about a book? :confused:

I know exactly how you feel bro

https://i.imgur.com/oDvS44Z.png

[Jibartik]

Cringing hard at this guys comic yikes

edit: jk didnt read lol

[Danger]

Cringing hard at this guys comic yikes

edit: jk didnt read lol

liar. read it. loved it. probably agreed with it. nice cope tho.

[Jibartik]

true good job u used same word bubble as me I just figured you'd prefer an insult over a complement