Green rogues: how is it?

[Tecmos Deception]

Are groups always itching to have you? What sort of piercers are you using? How does your damage stack up so far against mages, necros, monks, warriors?

[xdrcfrx]

Created a bunch of toons on 10/25, among them a halfling rogue. After trying innothule, gfay, and freeport, i found misty to be the most enjoyable experience, so the rogue is what i played over the weekend. Currently level 10 (finally) for that sweet sweet backstab. Using a 5/25 rapier purchased from the guild vendor, planning to dump my meager plat savings on a combine spear once I have enough.

I'm hoping the grouping experience gets a bit better. I left misty around level 8 or so, and struggled to find pick up groups in the commonlands area, but have had some productive bursts here and there. Hoping as I level into the teens and get dual wield and double attack that my dps will start to be more attractive.

Once issue i've noticed is that tanks can't really hold aggro yet - taunt is a joke, and pally/sk's are just starting to get to spell level in the groups i've been in. Also evade doesn't seem to be a thing yet, so when I pull aggro (wearing patch hide armor!) it stings.

[Tecmos Deception]

Cool, that sounds about like I expected. Rogue was a 3rd or 4th choice for me on Friday, but concerns about ONLY being able to exp in groups scared me away. Love the thene of rogues though and screwing around with poison just for the roleplay flavor. Maybe I'll end up with a rogue side project soon.

At least combat skills come nice and early for rogues compared to the other nonwarrior melees!

[Jibartik]

As an aside rogue is really fun to play with a xbox controller its pretty chill in those groups.

[Bazia]

Are groups always itching to have you? What sort of piercers are you using? How does your damage stack up so far against mages, necros, monks, warriors?

1. Yes but there isnt any tanks and im always chasing something snared and it's irritating

2. I'm using a merchant purchased "Spear"

3. i was backstabbing for 36 DMG @ Level 10

[Tecmos Deception]

I feel you, bazia. I spent quite a bit of time with my blue rogue in duos or trios that were fear kiting. Effective but maddening. I fucking HATED chasing stuff and staying right in melee range, even when stuff was snared. Instrument bonus bard snare was the only one strong enough to slow them down enough to make it almost bearable.

[Bazia]

I feel you, bazia. I spent quite a bit of time with my blue rogue in duos or trios that were fear kiting. Effective but maddening. I fucking HATED chasing stuff and staying right in melee range, even when stuff was snared. Instrument bonus bard snare was the only one strong enough to slow them down enough to make it almost bearable.

yeah im a few levels in and not caring for it

[LaughingOnTheSun]

Are groups always itching to have you? What sort of piercers are you using? How does your damage stack up so far against mages, necros, monks, warriors?

Groups don't seem to be itching to have me -- but I don't have a hard time getting into groups. I'm only level 9 though. So No backstab. Pre backstab, rogue isn't really dps. I don't have double attack, dual wield, or anything that marks up my dps. So... I usually keep quiet about that and hope no one notices my dps isn't doing much. I stay behind mobs while tanks are tanking, to give them the illusion I'm doing something. :)

[Purplefluffy]

Not had much of a problem finding a group. Most players seem friendly and eager to help. Knowing the zone, the spawn points and timers and generally being an efficient player seems to be the key thing right now.

[CHusk2]

I'm having a blast playing a rogue. I rolled him up on day one & now he's level 7. I've had groups constantly & everyone's been working really well together.

Will the DPS hold up? I don't know. But I do know that I'm having a ton of fun.

I'm a human so the night blindness thing is kind of crappy.

[Deathrydar]

Will the DPS hold up? I don't know. But I do know that I'm having a ton of fun.


They are the top melee DPS in the game.

[Tecmos Deception]

They are the top melee DPS in the game.

In Kunark with epic+, for sure. In Velious maybe.

In classic? Are they really?

[Psyborg]

In Kunark with epic+, for sure. In Velious maybe.

In classic? Are they really?

Early in Classic I would say no. That distinction probably goes to pet classes. Pet class damage really does not scale with gear so the gap lessens as gear becomes more available. By level 50 with reasonable gear a rogue should outdamage everyone in sustained damage over time.

I should note here that enchanters are a special case. I can’t speak about which charms are capable of outdamaging PCs.

[phobus]

As expected, it's awful and I'm loving it.

[Nirgon]

I feel you, bazia. I spent quite a bit of time with my blue rogue in duos or trios that were fear kiting. Effective but maddening. I fucking HATED chasing stuff and staying right in melee range, even when stuff was snared. Instrument bonus bard snare was the only one strong enough to slow them down enough to make it almost bearable.

What? You don't like chasing mobs at clinging darkness speed without sow?

[Icannotpost]

How does rogue compare with monk in classic era?

[greatdane]

If you can get a raid weapon (e.g. Eyerazzia or Vox spear) it's pretty decent. If you have to resort to pre-raid weapons, it's really mediocre because pre-raid rogue weapons are trash. There won't even be Burning Rapier for like 7 months. Loads of rogues will be using weapons with worse than 1:3 ratio at level 50. It's barely better than a ranger using dots and nukes.

[Lamil]

I'm using a giant snake fang at lvl 7 and am having a good time but it's probably because I'm in Misty Thicket. Also in MT it's mostly druids so I tank alot. I basically make my own groups because people sit with LFG on at the wall and just OOC lvl 8 druid lfg! I'm not sure how it's going to be once I venture out in the next couple days but it's definitely been a grind. I like the theme so it keeps me interested. I was hoping to XP in runnyeye but there is usually a group at each zoneline and the rest is too scary for people.

[mrloki]

Giant Spider Fang rocks just got one from a stranger in CB and my dps went way up! But yea until backstab and dual wield its hard to feel like I'm doing much. It aint much, but it's honest work.

[phobus]

Giant Snake Fang (5/27) is okay; the vendor-bought Spear (6/29) is a good upgrade if you can afford the 11pp. Combine Spear from the gypsy merchants is magic and slightly faster, but around 50pp IIRC. I think those are going to be the leveling rogue's bread and butter until Dragoon Dirks and SBDs get into the economy.

[Lamil]

Here's a rogue question: I can't for the life of me remember how to setup a macro to turn attack off and on like if I was evading. Anyone able to help a rogue?

[phobus]

/attack off
/pick nose
/attack on

[Lamil]

/attack off
/pick nose
/attack on

You're the best... glad you wrote pick nose instead of pick pocket

[Bazia]

evade doesnt work in classic

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Here's a rogue question: I can't for the life of me remember how to setup a macro to turn attack off and on like if I was evading. Anyone able to help a rogue?

/attack off
/doability #hide
/attack on
/dance

[Lamil]

evade doesnt work in classic

I realize this. I actually wanted it for pickpocket but didn't wanna give that away to groups!

[Bazia]

dont play a rogue there is no tanks level 10+ and it's a nightmare putting mine on the back burner for now

[Lamil]

dont play a rogue there is no tanks level 10+ and it's a nightmare putting mine on the back burner for now

I think I posted in a thread to you about that. I really want an Ogre SK but I'm scared to death of that xp penalty. Having a hard enough time on a halfling rogue trying to lvl

[mrloki]

/attack off
/doability 1 (where '1' is the slot used for hide)
/attack on

[Bazia]

I think I posted in a thread to you about that. I really want an Ogre SK but I'm scared to death of that xp penalty. Having a hard enough time on a halfling rogue trying to lvl

it gets worse the higher you get not better

[Icannotpost]

Is the consensus monk > rogue for classic damage output?

[Psyborg]

Is the consensus monk > rogue for classic damage output?

Early on? Yes.
By the end? No.

The gap widens more after Kunark.

[Icannotpost]

Yikes. So at least ~1.6 years until Rogues start to do better than monks. I see why there are so few rogues.

[Psyborg]

Yikes. So at least ~1.6 years until Rogues start to do better than monks. I see why there are so few rogues.

When Rogues start hitting 50 they will do more damage than monks assuming the Rogue has a tank and can backstab and you're comparing it to a similarly geared Monk. The gap widens more and more with equivalent gear ups. We're talking months, not 1.6 years. That is what I meant when I said "by the end."

[Icannotpost]

Ah okay, so for melee it goes Rogue>Monk>War by the time some gear starts happening. Not necessarily by the time Kunark or Velious hits?

I appreciate the feedback.

edit: I assume the difference between all of them is only 20% or so anyways. I'm a melee noob.

[Lamil]

That also assumes a warrior with a crappy weapon is holding aggro so you can BS. The druids snaring on inc makes it entertaining for the warrior to try to get aggro. All in all I'm really enjoying the lack of tactics in some groups. Keeps me from falling asleep

[Benanov]

3. i was backstabbing for 36 DMG @ Level 10

Consistently? So not classic. :)

The whole thing about rogue's backstab doing at least minimum of the rogue's level was put in much later, near when Kunark was released. So many shitty backstabs for single digits...

[Bazia]

Consistently? So not classic. :)

The whole thing about rogue's backstab doing at least minimum of the rogue's level was put in much later, near when Kunark was released. So many shitty backstabs for single digits...

I don't understand what you're saying here and my rogue is a BAR with 144 STR and was consistently hitting for 30s

[Icannotpost]

And you’re quitting the rogue, Bazia? I’d enjoy 30 dmg bs.

[Vexenu]

Remember that every 50 Monk on the server will be using 14/30 fists.

In contrast Rogues will be fighting for a 13/30 spear that drops off Vox or a 10/22 off Inny. Most 50 Rogues will be lucky to have a 10/24 from PoF trash. The rest will be using 7/20 Burning Rapiers or 6/23 Dragoon Dirks.

Ragebringer was basically a mea culpa for how badly Rogues got itemized in classic.

[Bazia]

And you’re quitting the rogue, Bazia? I’d enjoy 30 dmg bs.

theres no tanks in any groups, you get invited to chase stuff and its really frustrating gameplay wise

just putting it on hold for a bit is all

[Videri]

People aren’t rooting the mob? In a group with a warrior and a rogue? :confused:

[Keebz]

Most 50 Rogues will be lucky to have a 10/24 from PoF trash. The rest will be using 7/20 Burning Rapiers or 6/23 Dragoon Dirks.

They will probably be using Gloomwater Harpoons. On the high end, there's also Trident of the Seven Seas (10/30) and Efreeti War Spear (15/40). On the lower end, you have Polished Steel Dirk (8/23), Serrated Bone Dirk (8/27) and Glowing Iron Pike (9/36). There's likely more I'm forgetting.

I guarantee you no 50 rogues are going to be using dragoon dirks.

[Raclen]

Rogues are awful pre 10, I can confirm that. Until I got a mino axe pure casters were hitting as hard or harder with a cracked staff. Now I hit as good as a hybrid or warrior without some skills like taunt, kick, etc.

[Lamil]

People aren’t rooting the mob? In a group with a warrior and a rogue? :confused:

The good groups do.... can't say there are a ton of them out there yet