Request for Staff Confirmation on EXP

[cd288]

First off, let me just say that I am loving the server and this isn't a complaint post at all. Just wanted to clarify that upfront before people go "muh can't handle classic, stop whining" etc. I'm totally fine with the rate of EXP if it is, in fact accurate, but I feel like people have asked enough questions about it that it would be good to see an official confirmation so no one submits bug reports, keeps posting about it, etc.

In a group today, consistently chain pulling whites and yellows and reds, it has taken over an hour and a half just to get one yellow at level 6. Now, I know classic EXP is slow, especially considering the multiple penalties that you could have in one group with hybrids and casters (or racial penalties if you had a Troll or Ogre). However, this seems unusually slow.

Has the EXP rate been nerfed a bit due to the increased spawn time? Is it bugged? Or is it in fact 100% accurate and we're all just crazy? Saw another post about someone spending 8 hours at a bandit camp to get one level, which seemed really lengthy as well. Just thought it might be good to see an official message from the staff on this.

[El-Hefe]

Did you happen to have a higher level hybrid in your group?

[cd288]

Did you happen to have a higher level hybrid in your group?

Hybrid yes, but not high level no. A similar level hybrid wouldn't account for it since it's shared across the full group

[ldgo86]

Did you happen to have a higher level hybrid in your group?

Had a bard and an SK in my group last night. I couldn’t care less about the group penalties, but it was pretty slow XP. I mostly feel bad for those playing hybrids.

[Tecmos Deception]

First off, let me just say that I am loving the server and this isn't a complaint post at all. Just wanted to clarify that upfront before people go "muh can't handle classic, stop whining" etc. I'm totally fine with the rate of EXP if it is, in fact accurate, but I feel like people have asked enough questions about it that it would be good to see an official confirmation so no one submits bug reports, keeps posting about it, etc.

In a group today, consistently chain pulling whites and yellows and reds, it has taken over an hour and a half just to get one yellow at level 6. Now, I know classic EXP is slow, especially considering the multiple penalties that you could have in one group with hybrids and casters (or racial penalties if you had a Troll or Ogre). However, this seems unusually slow.

Has the EXP rate been nerfed a bit due to the increased spawn time? Is it bugged? Or is it in fact 100% accurate and we're all just crazy? Saw another post about someone spending 8 hours at a bandit camp to get one level, which seemed really lengthy as well. Just thought it might be good to see an official message from the staff on this.

It's correct. It's not hard to verify for yourself, like I did and mentioned in the thread you're talking about.

Again, as I went into a bit over in the other thread, low levels in EQ are kinda wonky with xp because of how exp penalties, exp sharing in groups, and low-level exp totals work. If you aren't in a group where everyone has similar exp totals (not level, exp totals), then you better be the highest exp total or else it'll feel very slow.


Hybrid yes, but not high level no. A similar level hybrid wouldn't account for it since it's shared across the full group

You don't understand how it works, or you wouldn't say something like this.

[Baler]

There is a reason hybrids were highly unwelcome in groups prior to velious.

You think rangers jokes are just jokes?

[El-Hefe]

Yeah, I’m not trying to hate on hybrids, but the one-two punch of a hybrid who is like four levels higher than you can just straight up stop your XP bar.

[Millburn]

Again, as I went into a bit over in the other thread, low levels in EQ are kinda wonky with xp because of how exp penalties, exp sharing in groups, and low-level exp totals work. If you aren't in a group where everyone has similar exp totals (not level, exp totals), then you better be the highest exp total or else it'll feel very slow.


Getting past the pre level 10 slump while grouping is a feat of willpower. A lot of people don't understand how that mechanic works and get frustrated with it. It gets a lot better as you're all hitting 10 and evening out on overall xp totals.

[Tecmos Deception]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#How_Experience_Works


Getting past the pre level 10 slump while grouping is a feat of willpower. A lot of people don't understand how that mechanic works and get frustrated with it. It gets a lot better as you're all hitting 10 and evening out on overall xp totals.

Exactly.

How about that Michigan game? Fuckin Irish :)

[Chortles Snort|eS]

MuHhhH CANT HaNDLe CLASSIC XP!!!!!

[Khorza]

In a group today, consistently chain pulling whites and yellows and reds, it has taken over an hour and a half just to get one yellow at level 6.

I don't wanna call you a liar or anything but something seems off about these numbers. I don't see how all of that information could be correct unless your group was 6 Ogre Rangers punching things to death.

Even the Everfrost tundra group I was invited to last night gained experience at a faster rate, and that was definitely not optimal. And I'm twice your level.

Besides, no one really cares about the actual exp you get from Blackburrow compared to the gnoll fang experience. That's why people still kill stuff there after its gone green.

[Baler]

MuHhhH CANT HaNDLe CLASSIC XP!!!!!

https://i.imgur.com/KsX5Ymw.gif

[Keza]

Seems fine to me. I solo'd my druid to the mid levels when I first started blue in 2010 and my current druid feels somewhat faster because I know about some quests. I remember my first group was in HHK. It was so boring and so slow that I almost immediately began looking for a replacement. Then I began doing trios in the late 20s and the exp was amazing.

It's slow as shit and even slower in groups. That's the same all the way up, tbh. If you want the quickest exp and have any ability to solo (*I mean practical ability, not bind wounding after every kill or spending 10 minutes medding after 4 mobs) you are better off not grouping. Without any gear whatsoever that is a limited pool of people though, so eventually you'll need to farm money or get groups at gear camps.

Well that and there's a ton of people so you need to group or wait for everyone to outlevel you if you want any mobs.

[cd288]

You don't understand how it works, or you wouldn't say something like this.

Thanks. Not sure why we have to be negative/take a tone, but okay. Hybrid penalties are shared among the group are they not? If I have a hybrid who is a level higher than me, he would also take some of my exp by virtue of being higher level of course. Is that not how it works?

[Graahle]

I rolled a ranger so eli5: Solo until 8-10ish rather than group if i dont wanna commit sudoku out the gate?

[Vizax_Xaziv]

CERTAIN ZONES "appear" to have their XP rates reduced significantly.

It does NOT seem right that I can see people literally going from level 12-16 faster than I've gone from level 4-6 (in a group that was chain-killing redcon halflings in Nektulos Forest)..........

Right now in a full-group of 6 in SRO, again chain-killing red con orcs, we're getting (roughly) 1.5yellows per hour at level 7.

[Kittik]

Wait, are you saying that my Shadowknight levels slower than other classes? Why?

[Videri]

CERTAIN ZONES "appear" to have their XP rates reduced significantly.

It does NOT seem right that I can see people literally going from level 12-16 faster than I've gone from level 4-6 (in a group that was chain-killing redcon halflings in Nektulos Forest)..........

Right now in a full-group of 6 in SRO, again chain-killing red con orcs, we're getting (roughly) 1.5yellows per hour at level 7.

Would the relative Zone Experience Modifiers explain your observations? According to the ZEM list, nearly all classic outdoor zones have the standard ZEM of 75, while city zones have 100, and certain zones (mostly dungeons) have even better exp bonuses (boni? hehe).
http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List

[Benanov]

Would the relative Zone Experience Modifiers explain your observations? According to the ZEM list, nearly all classic outdoor zones have the standard ZEM of 75, while city zones have 100, and certain zones (mostly dungeons) have even better exp bonuses (boni? hehe).
http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List

As of note, the ZEM list is horribly wrong for quite a few zones. Droga, Nurga, and Dalnir all have really nice ZEM bonuses on Blue, but they are listed as 75 on the wiki.

Don't go by the wiki.

[Tecmos Deception]

Thanks. Not sure why we have to be negative/take a tone, but okay. Hybrid penalties are shared among the group are they not? If I have a hybrid who is a level higher than me, he would also take some of my exp by virtue of being higher level of course. Is that not how it works?

This is how it works. But this isn't what you said before.

You said that similar-level hybrids wouldn't account for slower exp "because it's shared" amongst the group. But that's exactly what makes the exp slower, because similar-level hybrids have more exp earned so far than people without penalties, and therefore soak up a larger portion of the exp per kill, and therefore increase the time per level all other things being equal.

There isn't a negative tone just because I told you you didn't understand something.

If you want people to believe you, you need to do more than have some gut feeling that things are too slow, especially when others don't feel that way, and some folks even have TESTED and found it to be just fine. Go exp for 2 hours in a group, noting the exact amount of what levels you earn and the levels of the others folks in the group and the number of mobs you kill and their cons (better yet, levels, based on max hits) and do some math and THEN come here and claim something is off.

[cd288]

Would the relative Zone Experience Modifiers explain your observations? According to the ZEM list, nearly all classic outdoor zones have the standard ZEM of 75, while city zones have 100, and certain zones (mostly dungeons) have even better exp bonuses (boni? hehe).
http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List

I thought so, but EXP per kill with same group of level 7s hasn't been better in CB than it was elsewhere

[zaneosak]

First off, let me just say that I am loving the server and this isn't a complaint post at all. Just wanted to clarify that upfront before people go "muh can't handle classic, stop whining" etc. I'm totally fine with the rate of EXP if it is, in fact accurate, but I feel like people have asked enough questions about it that it would be good to see an official confirmation so no one submits bug reports, keeps posting about it, etc.

In a group today, consistently chain pulling whites and yellows and reds, it has taken over an hour and a half just to get one yellow at level 6. Now, I know classic EXP is slow, especially considering the multiple penalties that you could have in one group with hybrids and casters (or racial penalties if you had a Troll or Ogre). However, this seems unusually slow.

Has the EXP rate been nerfed a bit due to the increased spawn time? Is it bugged? Or is it in fact 100% accurate and we're all just crazy? Saw another post about someone spending 8 hours at a bandit camp to get one level, which seemed really lengthy as well. Just thought it might be good to see an official message from the staff on this.

do you remember what your group comp was? Level and Class of all players? Would help to see if you were getting jobbed at all because of race/class penalties. Also - what zone?

[1asdfasdf1]

Just want to throw in that 2 hours at level 3 to get 1 yellow in a group was ... interesting.

Level 3 cleric
Level 3 int caster
Level 3 int caster

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Yeah, I’m not trying to hate on hybrids, but the one-two punch of a hybrid who is like four levels higher than you can just straight up stop your XP bar.

Yea last night a lvl 10 Troll SK joined our group of level 6 and 7s and it was DISGUSTING how much it slowed down our xp.

I hung around for another hour then just left. I'd say it reduced our xp speed by AT LEAST 50%.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Just want to throw in that 2 hours at level 3 to get 1 yellow in a group was ... interesting.

Level 3 cleric
Level 3 int caster
Level 3 int caster

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Precisely my point, and I experienced this as well. And we were CHAIN-PULLING RED CONS in a full group. Doesn't feel accurate at all.

Meanwhile in the same 2 hours people are getting FULL LEVELS 20+......

[zaneosak]

Precisely my point, and I experienced this as well. And we were CHAIN-PULLING RED CONS in a full group. Doesn't feel accurate at all.

Meanwhile in the same 2 hours people are getting FULL LEVELS 20+......

Mobs are worth a set number of XP and if your bonus (group or zone) tries to get you above the cap, it does not apply. If you're "actually killing reds" in a trio at lvl 3 (which I doubt) then you're hitting the ceiling anyways.

[Tecmos Deception]

Precisely my point, and I experienced this as well. And we were CHAIN-PULLING RED CONS in a full group. Doesn't feel accurate at all.

Meanwhile in the same 2 hours people are getting FULL LEVELS 20+......

Really, this is what eq and p99blue have always tended to be. Most groups are SHIT. Do the math; it's not wrong. Full groups just tend to be very inefficient.

A few of them are fantastic. Like 5% of them. The rest of the time soloing with an appropriate class or a good duo/trio is miles ahead of a full group.

I regularly solod my clerics on blue for a reason. And it wasn't because I'm antisocial.

My sham on green solos a -1 or even-level mob every 2 minutes or so. Do you think a full group is going to kill a high blue or even every 15 seconds nonstop for hours on end? Fuck no they won't. They won't kill a yellow every 20 seconds for hours on end either. Full groups are a fun experience with the right players in the right locations. But they're rarely the best exp option.

[Expediency]

Does seem slow. Day after launch I was in an all halfling group: 2 rogues 2 clerics and 2 druids. We pulled nonstop on the bat hill outside the wall and were doing a little over 1 yellow an hour at levels 4-6 as races with a bonus.

I think part of it may be psychological: were used to seeing the blue bar move and it's harder to tell without it.

[zaneosak]

Does seem slow. Day after launch I was in an all halfling group: 2 rogues 2 clerics and 2 druids. We pulled nonstop on the bat hill outside the wall and were doing a little over 1 yellow an hour at levels 4-6 as races with a bonus.

I think part of it may be psychological: were used to seeing the blue bar move and it's harder to tell without it.

So this depends on what mobs you were killing, I mean what levels. If you are killing BLUEs at low level in groups it's really bad XP, I mean like REAL BAD. The mob XP is based on the mobs level, period. Level 4 mobs in a group of all level 5s, is gonna be really bad XP. This rule is 10 fold for low level groups. If you're grouping any levels before like 15 or 20, you should be killing yellows/whites if possible. It's night and day different.

Just using your example though. If you have 6 halflings, 2 rogue 2 druid 2 cleric killing level 4 bats at level 5 (in a 75 ZEM zone like Misty) it's gonna be 234 bats to ding if you did the entirety of level 5.
If you killed level 5 bats instead of level 4 bats, your number of kills to ding is 149, also 100 less. If you're mobbing down yellow cons of level 6 instead, 104 kills to ding.

Just showing you how XP is all a numbers game and at low levels, grouping can be detrimental, if you're killing mobs in a group you could solo, the XP values should be almost noticeably bad.

The major takeaway is "blue" does not mean good XP. It's all about the level of the mob, which we obviously don't always know.

[Smashed]

I think the biggest problem is finding a large enough population of appropriately leveled mobs. Groups inevitably start aiming too high with inefficient battles against red cons. This is worsened by overpopulated zones.

But I can relate. Yesterday in Feerrott at level 6 I gained 2.5 yellow in a little over four hours. At the halfway point I changed groups just to see what would change. New group wasn’t any better. Both were suboptimal camps. First group would have been fine with 3 players, but they kept adding people. Second group was doing lizards and the high level spawns were simply too difficult.

[Tecmos Deception]

Does seem slow. Day after launch I was in an all halfling group: 2 rogues 2 clerics and 2 druids. We pulled nonstop on the bat hill outside the wall and were doing a little over 1 yellow an hour at levels 4-6 as races with a bonus.

I think part of it may be psychological: were used to seeing the blue bar move and it's harder to tell without it.

Dude. You were in a group of 6 with 4 non-pet, non-dps spellcasters who couldn't meditate yet. And 2 melee who probably had rusty daggers and cloth armor who can't do their one great ability yet (backstab).

What in the holy fuck did you expect?

[whitebandit]

Dude. You were in a group of 6 with 4 non-pet, non-dps spellcasters who couldn't meditate yet. And 2 melee who probably had rusty daggers and cloth armor who can't do their one great ability yet (backstab).

What in the holy fuck did you expect?

I gotta agree with you on this one Tecmos, people are expecting this to be the twinked Monks and casters with 400mana at level 1 chain nuking leveling to 15 in a single night or some shit. This is so fun.

[cd288]

This is how it works. But this isn't what you said before.

You said that similar-level hybrids wouldn't account for slower exp "because it's shared" amongst the group. But that's exactly what makes the exp slower, because similar-level hybrids have more exp earned so far than people without penalties, and therefore soak up a larger portion of the exp per kill, and therefore increase the time per level all other things being equal.

There isn't a negative tone just because I told you you didn't understand something.

If you want people to believe you, you need to do more than have some gut feeling that things are too slow, especially when others don't feel that way, and some folks even have TESTED and found it to be just fine. Go exp for 2 hours in a group, noting the exact amount of what levels you earn and the levels of the others folks in the group and the number of mobs you kill and their cons (better yet, levels, based on max hits) and do some math and THEN come here and claim something is off.

Similar meaning the hybrid was one level higher than me. Of course it would take more exp, but that doesn't account for the low leveling pace just because you have a hybrid one level higher

[GnomeCaptain]

I feel sort of bad for non-pet classes.

Yesterday I, a Necromancer, grouped with two other Necros, two Mages, and a Druid.

There were so many dead NPCs strewn about we couldn't see the ground.

And the exp was very, very fast.

[zaneosak]

Similar meaning the hybrid was one level higher than me. Of course it would take more exp, but that doesn't account for the low leveling pace just because you have a hybrid one level higher

Higher level people take alot more XP of the pie, a high level hybrid takes even more of the pie. If you are all the same level, your mobs to level will be identical (your xp bar will move the same amount) as the hybrid, but ANY player with a higher level will take more. +/- 1 level if in a good group killing fast and killing even cons would probably be ok. But a bunch of higher levels can cripple your own personal XP quite a bit.

If you had the entire group makeup I could chart it for you with a tool I made, just to visually show you the difference, if you're curious.

[cd288]

Higher level people take alot more XP of the pie, a high level hybrid takes even more of the pie. If you are all the same level, your mobs to level will be identical (your xp bar will move the same amount) as the hybrid, but ANY player with a higher level will take more. +/- 1 level if in a good group killing fast and killing even cons would probably be ok. But a bunch of higher levels can cripple your own personal XP quite a bit.

Everyone else was the same level, it was one hybrid who was 1 level higher. Not like it was 3 or 4 levels higher

[Tecmos Deception]

Similar meaning the hybrid was one level higher than me. Of course it would take more exp, but that doesn't account for the low leveling pace just because you have a hybrid one level higher

Bottom line here is you feel like the exp was too slow but are spending time posting about it instead of proving it.

As I already said, when your gut clashes with other people's guts, and you have no data vs. staff who have been running this for years and players who have tested specifically... well it's time to actually put in some minimal amount of actual effort to prove your point.

[Expediency]

Dude. You were in a group of 6 with 4 non-pet, non-dps spellcasters who couldn't meditate yet. And 2 melee who probably had rusty daggers and cloth armor who can't do their one great ability yet (backstab).

What in the holy fuck did you expect?

These are some of the least penalized racial/class combos in the game. At levels 4-6 people should absolutely be able to do a yellow an hour.

How long do you expect it to take? I do not think a yellow per hour as a level 5 halfling in a group with zero racial or class penalties is an unreasonable expectation for an active group.

[zaneosak]

These are some of the least penalized racial/class combos in the game. At levels 4-6 people should absolutely be able to do a yellow an hour.

How long do you expect it to take? I do not think a yellow per hour as a level 5 halfling in a group with zero racial or class penalties is an unreasonable expectation for an active group.

I think Tecmo is correct but for wrong reasons. You gear is irrelvent. It's the mobs your killing. Killing lvl 3 or 4 mobs as level 5s in a group is slowwwwwww. 1 yellow an hour is acceptable to me in a group, but when you're level 4-6 you gotta kill whites/yellows to obtain that kind of good XP. You can kill a blue con with 2 of you, so adding 4 more, you're still splitting it.

My calculations are way above a yellow an hour if you are killing level 4 bats at level 5. If you're just killing regular bats, which are level 1 or 2 in Qeynos.... at level 5, it's gonna be almost nothing XP wise -- Example (level 3 mobs). A Level 3 mob gives 675 XP. With 6 members in group it goes up to 810 XP.... assuming you're all halflings, all level 5. You'll need 420 of those level 3 mobs to ding lvl 6. Thats alot of freaking mobs. Change it to level 4 mobs only 234 required... etc. etc.

[cd288]

Bottom line here is you feel like the exp was too slow but are spending time posting about it instead of proving it.

As I already said, when your gut clashes with other people's guts, and you have no data vs. staff who have been running this for years and players who have tested specifically... well it's time to actually put in some minimal amount of actual effort to prove your point.

I think you missed the point of my original post. I'm not complaining or trying to prove or disprove anything. I'm saying that many people have asked similar questions, so it might be helpful for the staff to shoot a quick confirm because people will also stop submitting bug reports about it.

Chill out man lol, take a deep breath and relax

[Lamil]

Dude. You were in a group of 6 with 4 non-pet, non-dps spellcasters who couldn't meditate yet. And 2 melee who probably had rusty daggers and cloth armor who can't do their one great ability yet (backstab).

What in the holy fuck did you expect?

I think I was in this group and I take offense because as a halfling rogue I at least know to use a sharpening stone so my rapier is tarnished ;)

XP is what it is and I had a great time sitting for hours gaining crummy xp trading stories about our EQ past. Also gave me some time to make a little money so I could buy a few backpacks for my bank

[Tecmos Deception]

I think Tecmo is correct but for wrong reasons. You gear is irrelvent. It's the mobs your killing. Killing lvl 3 or 4 mobs as level 5s in a group is slowwwwwww. 1 yellow an hour is acceptable to me in a group, but when you're level 4-6 you gotta kill whites/yellows to obtain that kind of good XP. You can kill a blue con with 2 of you, so adding 4 more, you're still splitting it.

My calculations are way above a yellow an hour if you are killing level 4 bats at level 5. If you're just killing regular bats, which are level 1 or 2 in Qeynos.... at level 5, it's gonna be almost nothing XP wise -- Example (level 3 mobs). A Level 3 mob gives 675 XP. With 6 members in group it goes up to 810 XP.... assuming you're all halflings, all level 5. You'll need 420 of those level 3 mobs to ding lvl 6. Thats alot of freaking mobs. Change it to level 4 mobs only 234 required... etc. etc.

Gear isn't relevant. In an MMO.


Riiiiiight.

[Tecmos Deception]

I think you missed the point of my original post. I'm not complaining or trying to prove or disprove anything. I'm saying that many people have asked similar questions, so it might be helpful for the staff to shoot a quick confirm because people will also stop submitting bug reports about it.

Chill out man lol, take a deep breath and relax

I didn't miss the point. I just understand that the point you're trying to make is asinine. You don't need, nor should you get, confirmation from the staff about anything that isn't a legit bug report type issue.

And, as I've said repeatedly now, if you were concerned enough about this, you'd already have done some testing and made a real post about it.


These are some of the least penalized racial/class combos in the game.

Right. So all things being equal, they'd level quickly.

But all things are obviously NOT equal. I very specifically spelled out the main reasons why 2 clerics, 2 druids, and 2 rogues at level 4-6 will be a shitty group to earn exp.

[FroglokIRL]

What most people are missing when comparing totally new level 4-6 characters to the high teen pet classes for levels/h is DPS. You're coming from Blue where everyone has 10/22 weapons given to them or better. Now we have 4/30. Those high teen pet classes? Their DPS is nearly the same as it would be on Blue. It is the state of the server currently.

I find the EXP to be what I remember of classic. It is slow, but doable.

[Izmael]

Exp probably simply reduced to limit the amount of guises and stones that will be looted and ultimately (maybe) merged to Blue.

Wait until you have one month to get 60 and be able to get on /list for fungus staff.

[zaneosak]

Gear isn't relevant. In an MMO.


Riiiiiight.

It's not relevant for what you're bitching about in the post I quoted. You can only kill as many bats as are available. If you have full twink gear and are grouping 4-6 halflings killing level 3 blue bats its still going to take you HOURS to get a level, the problem isn't that they have no pet classes or no gear, it's that they are killing ridiculously low level mobs expecting to get fast XP.

[Evia]

Exp seems right to me

[Tecmos Deception]

It's not relevant for what you're bitching about in the post I quoted. You can only kill as many bats as are available. If you have full twink gear and are grouping 4-6 halflings killing level 3 blue bats its still going to take you HOURS to get a level, the problem isn't that they have no pet classes or no gear, it's that they are killing ridiculously low level mobs expecting to get fast XP.

Ahh, my bad. I was confusing that poster with the op I think.

[Gnec]

Just want to throw in that 2 hours at level 3 to get 1 yellow in a group was ... interesting.

Level 3 cleric
Level 3 int caster
Level 3 int caster

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dunno whats more sad, that crappy exp or that people are sitting there doing it.

[cd288]

I didn't miss the point. I just understand that the point you're trying to make is asinine. You don't need, nor should you get, confirmation from the staff about anything that isn't a legit bug report type issue.

And, as I've said repeatedly now, if you were concerned enough about this, you'd already have done some testing and made a real post about it.




Right. So all things being equal, they'd level quickly.

But all things are obviously NOT equal. I very specifically spelled out the main reasons why 2 clerics, 2 druids, and 2 rogues at level 4-6 will be a shitty group to earn exp.

How on earth does a simple question on a forum get you so wound up? It's a 20 year old video game on an emulated server, you should take a deep breath every now and then.

[Tecmos Deception]

How on earth does a simple question on a forum get you so wound up? It's a 20 year old video game on an emulated server, you should take a deep breath every now and then.

What? Punching away at my phone for 60 seconds now and then who im shitting or waiting for some water or boil makes me "wound up"?

[cd288]

What? Punching away at my phone for 60 seconds now and then who im shitting or waiting for some water or boil makes me "wound up"?

Based on your general tone and demeanor yes lol

[Videri]

If you read it in a calm and rational voice, what he said is not bad.

We all expect ruthless snarling (because it’s so common here), but some of it is in the reader’s interpretation.

[cd288]

Really, this is what eq and p99blue have always tended to be. Most groups are SHIT. Do the math; it's not wrong. Full groups just tend to be very inefficient.

A few of them are fantastic. Like 5% of them. The rest of the time soloing with an appropriate class or a good duo/trio is miles ahead of a full group.

I regularly solod my clerics on blue for a reason. And it wasn't because I'm antisocial.

My sham on green solos a -1 or even-level mob every 2 minutes or so. Do you think a full group is going to kill a high blue or even every 15 seconds nonstop for hours on end? Fuck no they won't. They won't kill a yellow every 20 seconds for hours on end either. Full groups are a fun experience with the right players in the right locations. But they're rarely the best exp option.

Sorry, meant to respond to this earlier. Are you saying this because you’re saying it won’t be possible if the spawn rates are normal or are you saying this because you don’t think a group without gear is capable of this?

If the latter, have you been grouping at all? Every group I’ve been in has been chain pulling constantly (even when the spawn rate was increased). This includes pulling reds and yellows as soon as they spawn. Heck, we were chain clearing orcs in CB a couple hours ago without a tank as a bunch of level 7s, including taking down the Orc Trainer using two Enchanter pets and barely anything else lol. When the spawn rate was increased, every group I’ve been in has been constantly chain pulling without stopping and without issue.

[Natewest1987]

So this depends on what mobs you were killing, I mean what levels. If you are killing BLUEs at low level in groups it's really bad XP, I mean like REAL BAD. The mob XP is based on the mobs level, period. Level 4 mobs in a group of all level 5s, is gonna be really bad XP. This rule is 10 fold for low level groups. If you're grouping any levels before like 15 or 20, you should be killing yellows/whites if possible. It's night and day different.

Just using your example though. If you have 6 halflings, 2 rogue 2 druid 2 cleric killing level 4 bats at level 5 (in a 75 ZEM zone like Misty) it's gonna be 234 bats to ding if you did the entirety of level 5.
If you killed level 5 bats instead of level 4 bats, your number of kills to ding is 149, also 100 less. If you're mobbing down yellow cons of level 6 instead, 104 kills to ding.

Just showing you how XP is all a numbers game and at low levels, grouping can be detrimental, if you're killing mobs in a group you could solo, the XP values should be almost noticeably bad.

The major takeaway is "blue" does not mean good XP. It's all about the level of the mob, which we obviously don't always know.


I don’t think I’ll ever look at EQ the same, and now I wish I could go back to Friday lol

[Trollhide]

Group xp in EQ was always butts compared to solo xp. It's classic.

[Tecmos Deception]

Sorry, meant to respond to this earlier. Are you saying this because you’re saying it won’t be possible if the spawn rates are normal or are you saying this because you don’t think a group without gear is capable of this?

If the latter, have you been grouping at all? Every group I’ve been in has been chain pulling constantly (even when the spawn rate was increased). This includes pulling reds and yellows as soon as they spawn. Heck, we were chain clearing orcs in CB a couple hours ago without a tank as a bunch of level 7s, including taking down the Orc Trainer using two Enchanter pets and barely anything else lol. When the spawn rate was increased, every group I’ve been in has been constantly chain pulling without stopping and without issue.

I was saying most group exp is crap because that has been my experience across hundreds of groups and a decade of p99 on both blue and green. Red group exp only was worth it because of a crazy huge exp bonus in groups.

I sincerely doubt the all groups you've been in were legitimately chain pulling yellows and reds.


including taking down the Orc Trainer using two Enchanter pets and barely anything else lol..

It's cool killing tough stuff. But this line supports the argument that your group(s) have been inefficient. Killing a mob with 2 pets is quite plainly not going to earn a lot of exp for a group of 6. It's just not enough dps. Even if you have actually chain pulled in every group you've been in, if you're killing stuff slowly because your group is too light on damage, it's still gonna be crappy exp.

[Jimjam]

I was in an 'asp hill' (didn't even know that was a thing!) group in ec with a few pet classes and we were constantly killing red to me mobs.

It was a bit of a nightmare pulling tbh, even with selos mobs were managing to hit me when i pulled. It seems the server was not doing a great job of keeping everyone's /loc up to date.

[Kanuvan]

class penalties are a bitch

[Rooj]

I recall on live people intentionally not grouping until around level 10 because it wasn't worth it, and then you'd try to join a low teens group.

[cd288]

I was saying most group exp is crap because that has been my experience across hundreds of groups and a decade of p99 on both blue and green. Red group exp only was worth it because of a crazy huge exp bonus in groups.

I sincerely doubt the all groups you've been in were legitimately chain pulling yellows and reds.




It's cool killing tough stuff. But this line supports the argument that your group(s) have been inefficient. Killing a mob with 2 pets is quite plainly not going to earn a lot of exp for a group of 6. It's just not enough dps. Even if you have actually chain pulled in every group you've been in, if you're killing stuff slowly because your group is too light on damage, it's still gonna be crappy exp.

We've definitely been legitimately chain pulling yellows and reds. Of course, I think at higher levels this wouldn't be possible if you weren't geared. For example, I think if you tried to pull the HK Raider room without a geared group when the Raiders are red to everyone, you'd get crushed. However, at lower levels the mobs don't hit hard enough/have a high enough HP pool to really stand much of a chance against a full group if you're pulling one at a time. Low level EQ you really don't need a geared group in order to efficiently chain kill yellows and reds (especially, for example, if you have an Enchanter for Tash so that more caster nukes land). Average time for us to kill a yellow last night was like 10 seconds. Again, at higher levels I doubt we'd be able to do this.

I'm not sure what you mean by it's not enough DPS. You mean that it takes too long to kill the red with those pets so it's not an efficient way of XPing? I'd agree with that, but I was more using that as an example of how you can have an ungeared group taking down reds. That was also one kill out of the rotation since the Trainer only spawns sometimes obviously.