Low level mobs double attacking

[Nirgon]

https://i.imgur.com/8JojQ7e.png

the kick and proc are fine, double attack not so much

[Telin]

Are you saying low level mobs should have a 0% chance to double attack? Post some more info on this please.

[Nirgon]

sand scarab shouldnt do almost half ur hp in a double round + bash? Seems a lil crazy bud

Warriors dont get double attack until 15

[Puluin]

I personally do not recall fearing double attack from npcs until pulling red to 25 mobs. Like raider room in HK.

However maybe this will help for those who understand this stuff:
http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38708

If I understand correctly that info was gathered from live for takp.

[Tecmos Deception]

NPCs don't get bash until the level warriors would.

NPCs won't dual wield even if you try to give them weapons until the level warriors can. It's not like you can charm a decaying skele and he has a .3% chance to dual wield.

Etc.

Why would you assume they CAN double attack at 6 (lowest I saw it, will post log later if needed) instead of the other way around? Especially seeing as this never used to be the case on blue or we all woulda heard about this before, so it got changed TO this. Why change TO something and then act like evidence is needed in order to justify a revert?

[Telin]

Nothing has been changed.

[Sunderfury]

Nothing has been changed.

Wrong. No more +65 hp rings, fungis, and only a mino axe to DPS is making everything stand out.

[Albanwr]

Wrong. No more +65 hp rings, fungis, and only a mino axe to DPS is making everything stand out.

[Arvan]

Game too hard for you? There's plenty of ezmode MMO's out there!

[Torven]

From examining AK logs, NPCs start double attacking at level 8 or maybe 7. I don't have long logs of this because I had only started collecting data after the shutdown notice, but I did produce some low level logs when collecting min/max hit data in 2013.

These are misty NPCs:

Fight #32 [16] A goblin warrior - Thu Oct 31 14:12:39 2013 - Duration: 58s (max hit was 18 indicating level 8)
Rounds: 20; Bashes: 8; Dmg Type(s): pierce; Swings: 23 (On You: 23)
rounds with 1 swings: 17 (85%)
rounds with 2 swings: 3 (15%)

Avg pre-slow round delay: 3.052; Rounds/sec: 0.327; Swings/sec: 0.396
Preslow Swings: 23; Preslow time: 58; Avg Swings/Round: 1.15
(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(2)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(2)3(1)3(1 )3(1)3(2)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)4(1)

Avg pre-slow bash delay: 8; Bashes per second: 0.125
8-8-8-8-8-8-8
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fight #33 [17] A giant spider - Thu Oct 31 14:15:22 2013 - Duration: 1m 25s (max hit 16)
Rounds: 27; Bashes: 11; Dmg Type(s): bite; Swings: 27 (On You: 27)
rounds with 1 swings: 27 (100%)

Avg pre-slow round delay: 3.269; Rounds/sec: 0.305; Swings/sec: 0.317
Preslow Swings: 27; Preslow time: 85; Avg Swings/Round: 1
Adjusting for 1 outliers, 0 double rounds, and 0 post-cast rounds
Adjusted avg pre-slow round delay: 3.04; Adjusted rounds per second: 0.328
(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1 )3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)4(1)9(O1) 3(1)3(1)

Avg pre-slow bash delay: 8.7; Bashes per second: 0.114
8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-15-8
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fight #34 [17] A giant spider - Thu Oct 31 14:19:01 2013 - Duration: 49s (max hit 16 but only maxed once so level is uncertain; spawn chance is levels 7-9 for this NPC)
Rounds: 17; Bashes: 7; Dmg Type(s): bite; Swings: 18 (On You: 12)
rounds with 1 swings: 16 (94.1%)
rounds with 2 swings: 1 (5.8%)

Avg pre-slow round delay: 3.062; Rounds/sec: 0.326; Swings/sec: 0.367
Preslow Swings: 18; Preslow time: 49; Avg Swings/Round: 1.058
(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)4(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1 )3(1)3(1)3(2)3(1)

Avg pre-slow bash delay: 8.166; Bashes per second: 0.122
8-8-8-8-9-8

All the NPCs that I'm sure are level 1-5 showed no signs of doubling. After level 8 I see doubling consistently.

[Dolalin]

Woot it's Torven! Big fan, bro.

Way to drop the evidence bomb!

[skorge]

sand scarab shouldnt do almost half ur hp in a double round + bash? Seems a lil crazy bud

Warriors dont get double attack until 15

Hey Nirgon, this is the beauty of classic EQ...you have to learn which mobs to fight and pass on. Some are undercons and some are overcons. The asps are undercons. I think people forgot about this.

PS - Beta refreshed my memory on this.

[Nirgon]

It's not too hard and an increased double attack rate is going to make charm killing faster for me. Later, the extra attacks against druid thorns will mean faster power leveling, even if not classic.

It was just funny seeing a yellow con at lvl 8 derv attack 3 times on pull with it's backstab going off on front for the third. With EQ Mac being down and there being no chance of someone mentioning double attacks or otherwise for newbie mobs, you can leave this stock EQ emu implementation in if you like. Onwards and upwards.

Maybe you can check these scarabs etc on live and see the same.

Nothing I'm sure has been changed there either in this regard.

[Nirgon]

Hey Nirgon, this is the beauty of classic EQ...you have to learn which mobs to fight and pass on. Some are undercons and some are overcons. The asps are undercons. I think people forgot about this.

PS - Beta refreshed my memory on this.

Don't quote the deep magic to me, witch. I was there when it was written. Dorn is an undercon, so is Sergeant Slate (his magic resistances and assist radius are pitifully low here). Sand scarab shouldn't be on the list :D.

[Nirgon]

Mobs like darkweed snakes were undercons because of poison procs, not because they had lvl 20 melee skills

That's no in era evidence at all to me

I can copy and paste his post and change those #s and claim their source as authentic too

Try these mobs on live, at least that's reproducible. Seeing the derv swing three times on pull made me laugh.

This will make druid PL much faster as is.

[Torven]

It was just funny seeing a yellow con at lvl 8 derv attack 3 times on pull with it's backstab going off on front for the third. With EQ Mac being down and there being no chance of someone mentioning double attacks or otherwise for newbie mobs, you can leave this stock EQ emu implementation in if you like.

not because they had lvl 20 melee skills

That's no in era evidence at all to me

I can copy and paste his post and change those #s and claim their source as authentic too

Try these mobs on live, at least that's reproducible. Seeing the derv swing three times on pull made me laugh.

Here's a 2001 log, which pre-dates Al'Kabor:

Fight #1 [1] A Dervish Cutthroat - Sat Mar 10 17:10:42 2001 - Duration: 1m 20s
Rounds: 29; Bashes: 0; Dmg Type(s): punch; Swings: 36 (On You: 36)
rounds with 1 swings: 23 (79.3%)
rounds with 2 swings: 5 (17.2%)
rounds with 3 swings: 1 (3.4%)

Avg pre-slow round delay: 2.857; Rounds/sec: 0.35; Swings/sec: 0.45
Preslow Swings: 36; Preslow time: 80; Avg Swings/Round: 1.241
Adjusting for 1 outliers, 0 double rounds, and 0 post-cast rounds
Adjusted avg pre-slow round delay: 2.666; Adjusted rounds per second: 0.375
(3)3(1)8(O1)3(1)4(2)3(1)1(1)3(1)3(1)3(2)3(1)3(1)3( 2)1(1)2(1)3(2)3(1)2(1)1(1)4(1)3(1)2(1)1(1)3(1)3(1) 3(2)3(1)3(1)3(1)

no bashes for fight #1

[Sat Mar 10 17:10:42 2001] a Dervish Cutthroat says 'Time to die!
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:42 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 7 points of damage. <--- front facing, hit mob on pull
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:42 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage. <--- triple attack round due to front face backstab
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:42 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:42 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 4 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:43 2001] You bash a Dervish Cutthroat for 7 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:45 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
(runs away from mob, back exposed)
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:53 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:53 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat backstabs YOU for 32 points of damage. <--- backstab
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:56 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:10:58 2001] a Dervish Cutthroat glares at you threateningly -- looks like quite a gamble.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:00 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses! <--- doubled 7 seconds after backstab
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:00 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:03 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 10 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:03 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses! <--- one of these likely the frontstab, reuse = 10s
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:04 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage. <--- one of these likely the frontstab
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:04 2001] You taunt a Dervish Cutthroat to ignore others and attack you!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:05 2001] a Dervish Cutthroat says 'I'll teach you to interfere with me Bethel'
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:07 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:10 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:13 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:13 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:13 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:16 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:17 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:19 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:20 2001] You bash a Dervish Cutthroat for 4 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:21 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 18 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:22 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:22 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 4 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:23 2001] You taunt a Dervish Cutthroat to ignore others and attack you!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:23 2001] a Dervish Cutthroat says 'I'll teach you to interfere with me Bethel'
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:23 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 22 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:24 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 16 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:25 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:28 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:28 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 3 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:31 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:33 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:34 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:36 2001] You bash a Dervish Cutthroat for 6 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:36 2001] You taunt a Dervish Cutthroat to ignore others and attack you!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:36 2001] a Dervish Cutthroat says 'I'll teach you to interfere with me Bethel'
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:38 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 7 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:38 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:41 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:42 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 15 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:43 2001] You taunt a Dervish Cutthroat to ignore others and attack you!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:43 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:44 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:45 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:47 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 21 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:49 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:50 2001] You taunt a Dervish Cutthroat to ignore others and attack you!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:50 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:53 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:53 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:56 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 6 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:56 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:56 2001] You taunt a Dervish Cutthroat to ignore others and attack you!
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:56 2001] a Dervish Cutthroat says 'I'll teach you to interfere with me Bethel'
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:59 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:11:59 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:02 2001] A Dervish Cutthroat punches YOU for 11 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:02 2001] You bash a Dervish Cutthroat for 6 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:03 2001] You taunt a Dervish Cutthroat to ignore others and attack you!
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:03 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 14 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:09 2001] You taunt a Dervish Cutthroat to ignore others and attack you!
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:10 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 11 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:13 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 21 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:16 2001] You taunt a Dervish Cutthroat to ignore others and attack you!
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:17 2001] You crush a Dervish Cutthroat for 19 points of damage.
[Sat Mar 10 17:12:17 2001] You have slain a Dervish Cutthroat!


NPCs do not respect PC levels in regards to skills, either. NPC riposte at lower levels which is easily parsed:

[Sat May 19 23:41:32 2012] You have entered Kurn's Tower.
[Sat May 19 23:44:25 2012] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 9!
[Sat May 19 23:46:34 2012] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 10!
[Sat May 19 23:52:01 2012] You try to kick greater scalebone, but greater scalebone ripostes!
[Sat May 19 23:53:08 2012] You have gained a level! Welcome to level 11!
[Sun May 20 00:01:52 2012] You try to kick greater skeleton, but greater skeleton ripostes!

[Nirgon]

I'm with you on the front stab and will see what if anything else I can find. I saw people getting two rounded by asps and scarabs lol.

NPC melee to my recollection until say npclvl 20(ish?) went like this:
Melee round

Melee round, bash/kick

Melee round

(Repeat)

It wasn't until the EC guards and Travis Two Tone do I ever remember the occasional double.

Never, ever do I remember a lesser mummy double attacking in Nektulos etc

[Torven]

Fight #5 [4] A giant scarab - Thu Oct 31 14:57:08 2013 - Duration: 33s (max hit 24)
Rounds: 12; Bashes: 5; Dmg Type(s): bite; Swings: 15 (On You: 15)
rounds with 1 swings: 9 (75%)
rounds with 2 swings: 3 (25%)

Avg pre-slow round delay: 3; Rounds/sec: 0.333; Swings/sec: 0.454
Preslow Swings: 15; Preslow time: 33; Avg Swings/Round: 1.25
(1)3(2)3(1)3(2)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(1)3(2)3(1)

Avg pre-slow bash delay: 8; Bashes per second: 0.125
8-8-8-8

[Nirgon]

Completely agree on riposte, I remember the lesser mummies doing that

[Torven]

Incidentally Mackal decompiled the client and discovered that double attack chance is rolled against 500, like so:

if level <= 35: chance = skill / 500
else: chance = (skill + level) / 500

For monks or client monks at least, it seems that level added to the skill starts at 30 instead of 36. I couldn't prove if that applied to all client classes or just monks as I didn't have clean enough logs of that level range. I just happened to have good monk logs at that level.

For NPCs, Skill = level * 5 up to a cap of 210 until level 51. Level 51+ NPCs have 250 skill.