P99Green: Were enchanters modified to have higher pet drops?

[jlxharville]

I am assuming enchanters were modified to have higher % pet drops?

I've played classic enchanter twice now. It's pretty much always been my main. I can't recall it ever being this bad.

So can we get confirmation that enchanter charm was nerfed due to whiney forum trolls?

---On a 35 enchanter on green currently ---


Tested: Beguile Charm, Blue Mobs, Time to Charm Break
120 charisma, with tash

36 seconds
1.18 min
15 seconds
53 seconds
47 seconds
1.56 min
55 seconds
1.34 seconds
45 seconds

The % time charmed is suppose to be random. I don't consider spell tip data on the p1999 website to be accurate for charming as it says for "Beguile" that its 8 mins to 22.

It's always been a random time though. You can charm a pet for it to immediately break. That's been fair. But this is just silly.

[DMN]

It's called charm break, not "pet drop". But what exactly were you charming and were you using tash?

[jlxharville]

It's called charm break, not "pet drop". What exactly were you charming.

Doesn't matter what you call it you petty mutt. Charming mobs in guk. Tried also giant skeletons in rathe.

[Videri]

I doubt there was some kind of ninja-nerf. Perhaps something else is at work. Another critical component of charm durations is relative level, as well as target's magic resistance. Did you factor those in?

[jlxharville]

I doubt there was some kind of ninja-nerf. Perhaps something else is at work. Another critical component of charm durations is relative level, as well as target's magic resistance. Did you factor those in?

Yes. The giant skeletons are questionable but gave similiar results. Mobs in guk I tried casters/melee etc. Also similiar. It just won't go past 3 minutes it seems. All blue cons.

[Jibartik]

I too have felt this but alas you are just writhing in the grip of RNjesus's agony.

[eunomios]

I played enchanter at the start of kunark release. Never once during my time played back then was there ever a "maintain a charmed pet" meta - Not a single group leveling up to 50s asked me to charm a pet or expected it. While playing alts, charmed pets were never utilized. In fact, it was often discouraged by how unreliable and mana draining it was - many groups would ask an enchanter to stop charming.

Later on I spent some time on the EQmac server. The meta there was to find a strong light blue con mob to charm because anything higher would break way too often.

What was common, however, was charming a mob and letting it fight another mob with the intent to kill both before the next engagement (since charm would break a lot anyway).

Classic mobs should have incredible MR. Roots, Mez, Charm should break earlier more frequently.

[jlxharville]

I played enchanter at the start of kunark release. Never once during my time played back then was there ever a "maintain a charmed pet" meta - Not a single group leveling up to 50s asked me to charm a pet or expected it. While playing alts, charmed pets were never utilized. In fact, it was often discouraged by how unreliable and mana draining it was - many groups would ask an enchanter to stop charming.

Later on I spent some time on the EQmac server. The meta there was to find a strong light blue con mob to charm because anything higher would break way too often.

What was common, however, was charming a mob and letting it fight another mob with the intent to kill both before the next engagement (since charm would break a lot anyway).

Classic mobs should have incredible MR.

Maintaining a pet is a thing with heals and/or snare etc, long duration pets not so much. The question here is whether the devs for green implemented a tweak. I think they did based on testing alone which is what I am arguing. Yes, classic enchanter was hard, but charm did stick longer > 3 mins as far as i remember.

[DMN]

I'd think you'd be able to hold a charm on G skels in rathe but your sample size is pretty small. You can get series of unlucky breaks. I charmed a level 7ish briar snake in tox with a 40 druid and it broke within 3 ticks twice in a row, but then the charm held for 4+ mins after the 2 breaks. This is the downside of the enchanter, that RNG strongly affects them.

[jlxharville]

I'd think you'd be able to hold a charm on G skels in rathe but your sample size is pretty small. You can get series of unlucky breaks. I charmed a level 7ish briar snake in tox with a 40 druid and it broke within 3 ticks twice in a row, but then the charm held for 4+ mins after the 2 breaks. This is the downside of the enchanter, that RNG strongly affects them.

What is weird is my shaman buddy (who is my level) can charm animals utilizing his 29 charm for 4+ minutes easily. I guess shamans now outperform enchanters.

[Bannen]

Kind of important to know if a change happened. I was planning on rolling a chanter based on current Blue chanter performance. If a nerf happened it would be nice to know instead of be left in the dark.

[Irfzero]

Kind of important to know if a change happened. I was planning on rolling a chanter based on current Blue chanter performance. If a nerf happened it would be nice to know instead of be left in the dark.

Then you are a bad enchanter.

[Bannen]

Then you are a bad enchanter.

I'm a bad chanter because I want to know if a major spell line has been changed? lol

[bbsmitz]

Maybe do a more extensive comparison with the Shaman and report as a bug if it's obvious one is holding longer?

[Irfzero]

Kind of important to know if a change happened. I was planning on rolling a chanter based on current Blue chanter performance. If a nerf happened it would be nice to know instead of be left in the dark.


You are unable to critically evaluate the information presented in the original post and apply it to Everquest as a game, the class of Enchanter.

I will offer 3 reasons based on Everquest game mechanics and 3 reasons based on the language used in both the original response and yours. This will illustrate that you are probably a bad enchanter, if you are not willing to play the class based on this post or even a potential nerf to charm.

#1 He says he is a level 35 enchanter charming blue con mobs. A blue con mob can be level 34....expecting a mob 1 level below you to have long charm durations coupled with reason #2 below suggests someone with little understanding of the game or class.

#2 He has 120 charisma......... this is low.

#3 Initial post refers to charm "% drops" ignoring the use of the word drops, we still have a problem with using charm breaks as percentage.

Charm will always break (unless your pet dies), it is a question of how long does charm lasts, not a percentage of "drops". You cannot keep a pet charmed indefinitely.

Additionally, are all these charm times for the exact same mob, charmed right after each break? Is it on different mobs, different mob types? No information is provided...ie LOGS.

#4 His post is predicated by stating if a change was made due to whiney trolls... his intentions are pretty clear, he thinks the staff changes the game based on "whiney trolls" instead of attempting to replicate an original experience. You're taking this at face value.

#5 "was" is past tense and implies you are re-considering rolling an enchanter if charm does not provide you consistent safety and easy gameplay. Your post reads as if you are not willing to play an enchanter if charm may have changed... for an already incredibly powerful and unique class even without charm.

#6 You have not attempted to test these non-fact based findings on your own. You say you want to know if there was a nerf but you are not attempting to to corroborate the "data" presented here.

Is that sufficient for my previous assumptions and post?

Yes, I think so.

[NegaStoat]

It's called charm break, not "pet drop".

[oldhead]

Is it funny that if they nerfed enchanter I would play enchanter? The Charm pet meta is what keeps me away from them.

[Videri]

Must we be so snarky and cutting? We can communicate in ways other than burns.

[oldhead]

Must we be so snarky and cutting? We can communicate in ways other than burns.
me? :confused:

[Lwin]

As Irfzero meticulously goes over, there's not much you can draw from this post except that possibly ~1 min charms are to be expected with 120 charisma (though the sample size is low and possibly not the same mob type). From what I recall, charm does resist checks every tick based on level/MR/Cha, so if one of those is lacking, you're gonna have a bad time.

[Videri]

me? :confused:

No, others. :)

[Bannen]

As Irfzero meticulously goes over, there's not much you can draw from this post except that possibly ~1 min charms are to be expected with 120 charisma (though the sample size is low and possibly not the same mob type). From what I recall, charm does resist checks every tick based on level/MR/Cha, so if one of those is lacking, you're gonna have a bad time.

Thanks, appreciate your response without the attitude. Never played a chanter, so yes as a rogue I don't know some of these things... yet. Thanks for the response.

[Widan]

That's really low charisma. If you start a HE with 115 charisma, then add in level 34 charisma buff you're at 145 already. Plus some jewelry and/or opaline earrings and you're 160+ even as a fresh enchanter on a new server.

I leveled up fully naked and solo on red from 1-51. Charming worked just fine. Get your charisma up and charm the lowest blue cons you can find

edit: You will have to do research on green if you want to be able to efficiently play an enchanter as well.

[Chubba]

Looks like it could be a few things..
1. Low charisma
2. Mob have natural high MR?
3. Super unlucky?
4. Blue mob but is it 1 level under? 2? 3?

[Videri]

That's really low charisma. If you start a HE with 115 charisma, then add in level 34 charisma buff you're at 145 already. Plus some jewelry and/or opaline earrings and you're 160+ even as a fresh enchanter on a new server.

I leveled up fully naked and solo on red from 1-51. Charming worked just fine. Get your charisma up and charm the lowest blue cons you can find

edit: You will have to do research on green if you want to be able to efficiently play an enchanter as well.

Looking for a guild?

[Irfzero]

Thanks, appreciate your response without the attitude. Never played a chanter, so yes as a rogue I don't know some of these things... yet. Thanks for the response.

Ok, so you're a new enchanter, I'm sorry for the attitude.

The original post reads like a crap post to me and he even replies to the 1st response calling him a "petty mutt" regarding a fact based statement about common EQ vernacular and I read your post as crap post support group.

The title of this post and his first sentence is ambiguous until he talks about charm. Enchanters can summon pets too, how does the phrase "higher pet drops" apply to summoned pets? There is a serious lack of clarity in the words he uses.

Sorry again, play an enchanter and have fun... die to charm breaks~

[Ind3]

If the only reason you want to play an enchanter is for ezpz charm leveling, you’re gonna have a bad time.

[Dolalin]

A lot of people are going to be very surprised at launch when their intricately-planned leveling strategies go awry.

[aaezil]

Level difference makes a huge difference. If you think you can charm something one or two levels below you reliably “because it’s blue” you’re gonna have a real bad time

[Chubba]

Yeah, it was mentioned a few times. I think all the points as to why the charms are breaking regularly have been clarified and it's unlikely due to any changes to game code.

[Tecmos Deception]

Level difference makes a huge difference. If you think you can charm something one or two levels below you reliably “because it’s blue” you’re gonna have a real bad time

^

This is why charm is so brutal at level 12 but so crazy powerful at like 40+. The range of stuff you can exp on at low levels is so small that you have a hard time finding something that is worth exp but isn't too close to your level so that it is difficult to keep charmed.

That said, enchanters are totally able to charm for solo exp right at 12 even naked as the day they were born when you're using the right tactics. Use open space to your advantage, fight near a zone line, be willing to accept 1/2 exp or no exp for a kill if it seems like trying to get full exp is going to cost you more mana than it is worth, be patient. My two most recent enchanters, both untwinked (or nearly so) went to kerra isle before 16 iirc, and while it wasn't easy by any stretch, they managed to exp nicely in there even sometimes charming and killing evens and yellows.

Charming in groups isn't ideal until maybe 20+ since your animation is pretty similar in strength to a safe charm target at these levels, but once you're a little higher (you're high enough) you can charm a level 25 easily with tash and cha buff and maybe some cheap charisma gear, and it should outperform your animation probably. Again, make use of open space to keep you safe from charm breaks (make your pet guard away from where you're medding; don't let it sit right next to you).

[Reecon]

Not only is your CHA low but if you are talking about lower guk that would explain it as well, you are lvl 35 charming mobs in their upper 20s low to mid 30s, you are gonna get charm breaks with the small amount of CHA you got at that level difference.

[Asteria]

It's called charm break, not "pet drop". But what exactly were you charming and were you using tash?

Autism speaks. Find the warning signs early and learn to deal with it for the best outcome.

[Frug]

Autism speaks. Find the warning signs early and learn to deal with it for the best outcome.

DMN has long been in my ignore list, but in this case his drivel was correct. The OP used terminology not only "wrong" (minor offense), but misleading. And omitted critical information to answer his question, which DMN asked for.

[Uuruk]

Guys, no nerf happened. Rogean has been mia for weeks.

[Tecmos Deception]

Pets were indeed changed to have higher drops. They used to not drop any items you gave them at all. But nowadays charmed pets will always drop gear you gave them later when you kill them. This is great for giving your pets powerful proccing weapons or -mr gear because you can recover it when you're done using the pet! Hurrah!

[Asteria]

Tecmos, so the OP was correct but not in the way they intended! :cool:

[Tecmos Deception]

:D

[Buellen]

In relation to level difference range.

At level 25 mob cons change for me when they used to be light blue /low "might be a risk" blues they changed to "can be dangerous " blues.

So I went to KFC in south karana and tried charming some Rooks "can be dangerous" and Harrier "Can be dangerous"

Rook level 20 - 22
Harrier level 24 - 26

So my charming did not go well charm/beguile both where breaking quickly due primarily to level difference.

Now at 28 when to many avocets are up I charm an even con (short mezz, tash, beguile) previously spotted other avocet (yellow con) pull near lake rathe and root /slow it and let my charmed pet whale on it. charm is going to break often but i can usually kill one avocet and zone out.

[derpcake2]

Pets were indeed changed to have higher drops. They used to not drop any items you gave them at all. But nowadays charmed pets will always drop gear you gave them later when you kill them. This is great for giving your pets powerful proccing weapons or -mr gear because you can recover it when you're done using the pet! Hurrah!

Except when they are non-MR, so rogues can pickpocket it, while the pet will visually keep displaying the items they previously had.

Slightly annoying.