Is it me or does Pantheon look like crap?

[Kaveh]

Didnt read your post but if your game takes years it will be pointless and youll make nothing.

Right now is a good opportunity to release something and have it be very successful and profitable, the only current "Hot" Game is classic wow and its literally re released content, they pulled in 8-9m subs and i bet you dont even have 10k in the bank due to your dirt poor thinking process

While I lol’ed at your post, their game looks good. Give them a break

[Evia]

This saga of lucimia game looks like the real deal. Looking forward to this more than pantheon at this point. Everything you guys talk about in regards to your intentions with the game really resonates with me.

Will definitely be keeping my eyes on it now! Thanks for sharing!

[Renfail]

Right. I was thinking longer term. The progression of technology has been pronounced. Atari games took one guy a few weeks to make. Nintendo games, a small team maybe a couple months. Early MMORPG's like EQ (~3 years start to finish) and DAOC (~2 years) were slow even for standards of their era, but still manageable. Warcraft took what, ~4 years and 70-80 million dollars? It was very slow and hugely expensive for its era, but as it turned out it was merely highlighting the new normal. Vanguard took ~4.5 years and came out prematurely, to its doom. As you mention, since about that time things have stabilized somewhat, probably because pressure (time, funding, etc) won't really permit development cycles to keep growing forever--there's a practical limit that we've probably reached.

I had read about Lucimia years ago but quite forgot about it. Thanks for posting, I'll keep an eye on your progress. The wife and I have been looking for interesting traditional-style online role playing games for awhile now.

As an aside, I *have* seen "Alpha" Everquest. It looked bad, really really bad. You aren't kidding about the risks involved with releasing alpha footage. I understand the nature of such things but a lot of folks don't.

Danth

To the first: Yep!

To the second: Glad you find it interesting. We're still a couple years away, so a lot of work still to get done.

To the third: Risky, but can be rewarding if it's done right. But yeah, there is a downside in terms of the lot of folks who don't. Plus side, they are a manageable risk, from the broader perspective.

[Renfail]

This saga of lucimia game looks like the real deal. Looking forward to this more than pantheon at this point. Everything you guys talk about in regards to your intentions with the game really resonates with me.

Will definitely be keeping my eyes on it now! Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for those kind words! :)

Our entire team can't wait for Pantheon. We're super excited to sink our teeth into what the VR team has going on. We loved EQ, loved Vanguard, and even though Brad is gone (RIP) we know the team is hard at work at continuing that legacy and we're just as ready as everyone else for them to finish so we can go crazy with their world.

[Bisonzabi]

Vanguard was the best video game I've ever played.

I'll admit, it had some great ambient music, but that's about it.

[Bisonzabi]

Gamers, it’s like taking candy from a baby. How many go fund me’s is it gonna take for people to learn this lesson, don’t pay for promises. Make these bitches start signing contracts saying if said game isnt finished by “this date” we take your house, car, savings, and throw you and your families stupid asses out on the street. That will motivate them to get some work done.

https://i.imgur.com/U3xyW5y.jpg
Unironically, the last game I ever preordered was Vanguard. I'm kind of glad it was a massive disappointment, definitely woke me up early in my young adulthood at the carrot and stick promises of the industry.

[Danth]

I'll admit, it had some great ambient music, but that's about it.

It was pretty good. The music guy used to post on another forum I read but I haven't seen him in a long time. I hope he's done well for himself. He was good at his job--one of the few people involved with Vanguard who I can say that about without sarcasm.

I felt like Vanguard's music, taken as a whole, had a distinctly melancholy character to it--unintentionally appropriate for the reality of what happened to that game. A great many of the music tracks fit with in with a feeling of lost opportunity and missed potential.


Danth

[shovelquest]

I didn't like vanguard because they changed druids from leather to cloth wearing casters and I was like DAMMIT I CHOSE DRUID IN THIS GAME BECAUSE I CHOSE A CLOTH WEARING CASTER IN EVERQUEST

True story.

[Evets]

Camelot Unchained FTW

[JurisDictum]

If only Bloomberg's big dream was to make a perfect MMORPG rather than be president of the United States, we might again see a new masterpiece soon. But unfortunately, not a lot of the billionaires seem to be into gaming.

But that is what we need to get past this conundrum we are in. The reality is games aren't very attractive to investors. They take too much time to materialize profit. The profits are not so great to justify the time investment.

It's not my opinion, its just math. Its a lot more profitable to invest in things like phone apps that do something that traditionally costs money for free.

So we are looking for an idealist that would be willing to accept lower earning potential just in order to make a great game.

Billionaires tend to be a bit older and all. People into games are usually under 40 ATM...so maybe someday idk.

But unless the government subsidizes games (some logic believe it or not under the funding for the arts we have traditionally done), its a long way off.

Maybe something out of North Europe will come about.

[Ranarius]

Funny thing is even Amazon is dipping it's toe into the gaming industry. I was quite surprised to hear about New World MMO. In the back of my mind I'm thinking they must have some alternate agenda though, they're using it to gain something other than money.....but what?!

[Evets]

havent they been talking about camelot unchained for 10 years as well?

Not sure it's been awhile though. But there are constant updates from the devs and they are working hard as far as I can see. I think it's in beta now. Fully crowd funded so EA can't ruin another game by telling the devs what to do lol.

[Ranarius]

I have backed Camelot Unchained and yes, they are in "Beta1" at the moment, which just means short quick tests. They plan for a Beta2 and Beta3 as well. It's slow coming, but it's definitely progressing and the updates are often. Communication with the development team is definitely not lacking.

[aspomwell]

You sound like a level-headed, reasonable, intelligent economist. Certainly knows what he’s talking about, and understands the intricacies of developing and releasing intellectual property.

And you can tell them Smellybuttface said so!

(sorry, I'm still cracking up over this post/username combo...)

[getlostgreg]

havent they been talking about camelot unchained for 10 years as well?

Pretty close. I found this teaser (https://web.archive.org/web/20130510105356/http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/23/mark-jacobs-city-state-entertainment-releases-some-sort-of-teas/) from 2012.

[choppedandglued]

If only Bloomberg's big dream was to make a perfect MMORPG rather than be president of the United States, we might again see a new masterpiece soon. But unfortunately, not a lot of the billionaires seem to be into gaming.

But that is what we need to get past this conundrum we are in. The reality is games aren't very attractive to investors. They take too much time to materialize profit. The profits are not so great to justify the time investment.

It's not my opinion, its just math. Its a lot more profitable to invest in things like phone apps that do something that traditionally costs money for free.

So we are looking for an idealist that would be willing to accept lower earning potential just in order to make a great game.

Billionaires tend to be a bit older and all. People into games are usually under 40 ATM...so maybe someday idk.

But unless the government subsidizes games (some logic believe it or not under the funding for the arts we have traditionally done), its a long way off.

Maybe something out of North Europe will come about.


america is entertainment king of the world by a huge margin. Nobody you knows really knows songs front to back that are in another language. It's normal in other countries however. You think somebody besides america is going to make the Holy Grail MMO , your out of your fucking mind.

[Fawqueue]

america is entertainment king of the world by a huge margin. Nobody you knows really knows songs front to back that are in another language. It's normal in other countries however. You think somebody besides america is going to make the Holy Grail MMO , your out of your fucking mind.

Hey that's not totally true. I mean everyone knows Gangam style!

[Frug]

How long ago did anyone discuss Pantheon on this thread?

[JurisDictum]

america is entertainment king of the world by a huge margin. Nobody you knows really knows songs front to back that are in another language. It's normal in other countries however. You think somebody besides america is going to make the Holy Grail MMO , your out of your fucking mind.

This is America's big new musical artist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyDfgMOUjCI

And its not an anomaly. This song was "top of the charts" forever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UceaB4D0jpo

Mumbling elevator music is the big new hit with the new generation.

America is going downhill fast leading anything except consumption and finance.

We aren't even the most fat anymore -- Mexico took that shit from us.

We all speak English if you haven't noticed. England once was top dog, now they are just pedophile friends of ours.

[shovelquest]

I liked it back in the old days when we were going 'down hill' because Satan introduced us to Dungeons & Dragons.

[cd288]

"Pantheon looks like crap"

Said on a forum for a game you play that has graphics from 1999 lol

[Evia]

"Pantheon looks like crap"

Said on a forum for a game you play that has graphics from 1999 lol

Just goes to show how amazing EQs gameplay is, I guess.

[Ranarius]

Yup, and the creator of EQ knew that, which is why he had this vision.

[Pootle]

I would take gamplay and content over graphics any day... I would hazard a guess most of us here at P99 would too.

[Mblake81]

"Pantheon looks like crap"

Said on a forum for a game you play that has graphics from 1999 lol

A game designed for PC and not multi-platform.

[Bisonzabi]

"Pantheon looks like crap"

Said on a forum for a game you play that has graphics from 1999 lol

I think you misread him. A game from 1999 can look aesthetically good compared to a game from 2015-2020.
Example for two 3d platformers: Sonic Adventure from 1999 aged immediately while Banjo & Kazooie from 1998 still looks aesthetically pleasing for what it was trying to do.
I'll agree that certain parts of Everquest looked bad even from back then. Karana zones are 3x larger than other zones like EC/WC and uses a single 32x32 ground texture to cover the entire zone. There are parts of Krana that look blurry and ugly compared to the more compact zones of EC/WC ect. Even the models, despite having limited and stiff animation and limited faces at the time, they still have a great deal of charm into in them. You want an ugly MMO from back then? Take a look at what Asheron's Call originally looked like.

[Bigsham]

Everquest looks like crap and i will play it until im a sick old man. Its not about graphics its about mechanics and gameplay, lore, music, everything.

[choppedandglued]

Everquest looks like crap and i will play it until im a sick old man. Its not about graphics its about mechanics and gameplay, lore, music, everything.

I don't think everquest looks like crap. The artwork was well done, and everything flowed well. It's like watching Bambi or another old disney movie and being like man this looks like shit now that we got cgi. It's not really as important if the final product is made in a timeless sense. There was a lot of love put into everquest. 14 classes. Then you can pick a race. This game was really a head of it's time. Maybe we as consumers ruined things by bitching. I blame the younger fornite generation. To me this game works like chess in a way. You go into a dungeon and advance space by space with abilitys to move certain ways, but there is normally like 10 ways to win a fight, and 10 ways to lose ext. The Pace I want to say is what makes EQ classic a classic. sorry for the rant im high af.


TLDR: I rambled a bunch of shit and for the GFX the items that show up on your character are really well done. I like seeing people progress in terms of gear and stuff like that. I admit I wouldnt ever show it to somebody that never played eq and be like yo this leaf thing on the epic druid is thight tho right... but to me its pretty tight.

[Mblake81]

I don't think everquest looks like crap. The artwork was well done, and everything flowed well. It's like watching Bambi or another old disney movie and being like man this looks like shit now that we got cgi. It's not really as important if the final product is made in a timeless sense. There was a lot of love put into everquest. 14 classes. Then you can pick a race. This game was really a head of it's time. Maybe we as consumers ruined things by bitching. I blame the younger fornite generation. To me this game works like chess in a way. You go into a dungeon and advance space by space with abilitys to move certain ways, but there is normally like 10 ways to win a fight, and 10 ways to lose ext. The Pace I want to say is what makes EQ classic a classic. sorry for the rant im high af.


TLDR: I rambled a bunch of shit and for the GFX the items that show up on your character are really well done. I like seeing people progress in terms of gear and stuff like that. I admit I wouldnt ever show it to somebody that never played eq and be like yo this leaf thing on the epic druid is thight tho right... but to me its pretty tight.

Agreed.

The graphics were good when you consider what else was out at the time (1999). I like to compare. EQ was a very large fully online world, various terrain, underwater, dungeons, cities, deserts. All of the items and they showed up on your character. Here is a list of the top Metacritic games for 1999 (https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/year/all/all?year_selected=1999).

Top 10.. & EQ

1. SoulCalibur - Dreamcast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWZe_e9cgW4)
2. Gran Turismo 2 - PS1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa-j4yS3F3s)
3.Street Fighter Alpha 3 - PS1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP93F4FON4g)
4. Homeworld - PC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_bANBOZioY)
5. System Shock 2 - PC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmFMxOY-sLU)
6. Tony Hawks Pro Skater - PS1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4hFnlEkIcY)
7. Age of Empires 2: The Age of Kings - PC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r_wisWIDtg)
8. Unreal Tournament 1999 - PC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vHZcZJTegQ)
9. Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - PC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOoqxGi26Pw)
10. Medal of Honor - PS1 (https://youtu.be/pAqmpuhNlJU?t=23)
.
.
.
28. Everquest - PC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l93daYpKY8)

[Mblake81]

When did Decline start to you? (https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/when-did-decline-start-to-you.131669/) -RPGCodex

[Horza]

RPGCodex is garbage.

[Danth]

(A list of top-selling games from 1999)

What do I find interesting about that list? Age of Empires II has had very recent production--new production, not merely nostalgia rehashes. It's the game that won't die. It's number 7 on that list but I wonder if twenty years of gradual sales has perhaps pushed it higher.


Danth

[getlostgreg]

Is it me or does Pantheon look like crap?

https://i.imgur.com/kPRVH0Z.png

[Ranarius]

That's scary

[DMN]

https://i.imgur.com/kPRVH0Z.png

Ahegao?

[Sibelia1]

https://i.imgur.com/UJTIusR.png
https://i.imgur.com/8v2UkBP.png

[branamil]

Pantheon is not coming out btw

[Ennewi]

Pantheon is not coming out btw

So I advise you to lower your expectations, and then lower them again.

Why, 80-100 is going to be just an ever more depressing failure of all your body parts and mind

https://youtu.be/cIVeSZK3HIE

[magnetaress]

I hope pantheon succeeds because the devs deserve a massive payback and to live on an island with IRL elves.

I however probably wouldn't design the game the way they are though. We'll see. I am too much in love with EQ. I don't even want EQ reskinned - maybe just more original EQ style expansions/zones. If I had EQ to do all over, would be the same engine, same kinda models, same kinda stuff, but I would redo the classic world and give the cities more room. Add more classic 1-50 zones. Neriak would have a 4th and 5th section, quarter, zone. And spread out the loot more, make it rarer. There'd be a few more leveling zones themed around the more urban areas so that Dark elves could lvl up on the wood elf slums, etc. And it wouldn't have a PvE release. PvP only.

Barbs would get some more land.

There'd be a bigger city off of village off of EK.

The underwater areas would be fleshed out with reefs, less flat zone geometry, and more stuff. I would create a mer-elf city of prexus worshipping elves that when they were in the water their model would switch to a mer-tail, and on land they would get legs.

Faeries would be a playable race :D

I believe this is the single biggest trip up to all the original EQ devs… they could not top their own first labor of love. They got caught in the dream.

[Mblake81]

I however probably wouldn't design the game the way they are though. We'll see. I am too much in love with EQ. I don't even want EQ reskinned - maybe just more original EQ style expansions/zones. If I had EQ to do all over, would be the same engine, same kinda models, same kinda stuff, but I would redo the classic world and give the cities more room. Add more classic 1-50 zones. Neriak would have a 4th and 5th section, quarter, zone. And spread out the loot more, make it rarer. There'd be a few more leveling zones themed around the more urban areas so that Dark elves could lvl up on the wood elf slums, etc. And it wouldn't have a PvE release. PvP only.

Barbs would get some more land.

There'd be a bigger city off of village off of EK.

I'm listening.

https://i.imgur.com/nMuCMXk.png

The underwater areas would be fleshed out with reefs, less flat zone geometry, and more stuff. I would create a mer-elf city of prexus worshipping elves that when they were in the water their model would switch to a mer-tail, and on land they would get legs.

Faeries would be a playable race :D

https://i.imgur.com/orbKuBu.png

I believe this is the single biggest trip up to all the original EQ devs… they could not top their own first labor of love.

A dream no one really expected to be anything big. It was a percentage of PC players during the years when PC was much smaller. Funny how it even got made considering the way things are done today. Maybe an 8 bit indie.

[magnetaress]

I'm listening.

https://i.imgur.com/nMuCMXk.png



https://i.imgur.com/orbKuBu.png



A dream no one really expected to be anything big. It was a percentage of PC players during the years when PC was much smaller. Funny how it even got made considering the way things are done today. Maybe an 8 bit indie.

*cheers m8* you are one of my favortist commentators

Ya, EQ was a long shot, and they had a lot of freedom of just getting tossed some cash and working out of a small office, not having like a $3 million dolla game executive breathing down their throats for the game to be accessible to working families of 2.5 children and 1.5 parents.

I believe it also spawned out of a lot of pen and paper dreaming too. So there was a lot that they wanted to put in, and did the best they could with the funds, and time they did. And weren't exactly told no because skeles are illegal in China, and CVS has the copywrite on lull.

[twitchthroe]

The last good game we'll ever see from a top notch studio is Hearthstone. Small team left to their own devices, then it got ruined by the execs that came in a year later.

Here I go with conspiracy again, but it truly feels like they aren't even interested in money. All the corporate shit that happens to games which people claim is "all for the money" drastically reduce profits.

You can see how they might try it out on a couple of titles considering the FIFA football model, but it clearly isn't working. Now it seems like more of a macro game they are playing where the only choice of game you get either manipulates your psychology into being a a little bitch (*cough* league of legends report system *cough*) or requires insane amounts of money to beat people for shallow victorys, which is essentially also being a little bitch.

[Bigsham]

digital card games are for retarded stay at home adult children who try to play strategy games high on weed

and fail

[twitchthroe]

digital card games are for retarded stay at home adult children who try to play strategy games high on weed

and fail

Or top 50 legend players with 70% win rates who don't like action games...

either one, both exist tho

also fuck weed

[Mblake81]

Ya, EQ was a long shot, and they had a lot of freedom of just getting tossed some cash and working out of a small office, not having like a $3 million dolla game executive breathing down their throats for the game to be accessible to working families of 2.5 children and 1.5 parent.

I believe it also spawned out of a lot of pen and paper dreaming too. So there was a lot that they wanted to put in, and did the best they could with the funds, and time they did. And weren't exactly told no because skeles are illegal in China, and CVS has the copywrite on lull.

haha
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnuTAa8LQiA)
anyone know the name of the original EQ game engine?

[Sibelia1]

The last good game we'll ever see from a top notch studio is Hearthstone. Small team left to their own devices, then it got ruined by the execs that came in a year later.

Here I go with conspiracy again, but it truly feels like they aren't even interested in money. All the corporate shit that happens to games which people claim is "all for the money" drastically reduce profits.

You can see how they might try it out on a couple of titles considering the FIFA football model, but it clearly isn't working. Now it seems like more of a macro game they are playing where the only choice of game you get either manipulates your psychology into being a a little bitch (*cough* league of legends report system *cough*) or requires insane amounts of money to beat people for shallow victorys, which is essentially also being a little bitch.

tend to agree with your tinfoil. like "they" want to acclimate us to algo-built content (eg. any of these films that look like storyboards) and buy out any art with human blood in it, so's they can commit to the full switchover to governance by computer and retire to their lolita islands never needing to peer thru their bunker viewslit again in worry.