Soulfire needs the same treatment Ivandyr's Hoop

[stewe]

Soulfire literally trivializes raids, when every single person rog and war etc can CH 5 times every raid it makes raiding EZ mode even verant realized that when they finally made the soulfire only clickable while equip, you want challenging raiding instead of EZ loot like WoW then soulfire should get the only when equip nerf right off the bat, it is just as bad as the Hoop was except the other way (healing instead of dps). There is no challenge to a raid when every single person can CH atleast 5 times. Yes i know, i can already hear the ppl that want to exploit an item to make this game as easy as WoW raiding is cause they want instant gratification but green should try to be different from blue, atleast somewhat challenging.

[Argh]

You'd need a massive overhaul of this game if you don't want 'EZ loot'.

[Bazia]

as a paladin i approve of this message

[Coridan]

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Also remove MQs

[Daliant17447]

I thought lucan was a 7 day spawn on live

[zodium]

as a pathological soulfire clicker i say yes, do this

[Baler]

https://i.imgur.com/1gBWIug.gif

[FishBait01]

lol soulfire hording in pve....

disgusting

[Baler]

OP is mad and bad at everquest.
He recently lost out on his soulfire so he comes to the forums and makes a thread about how 'unfair' it is.

[Gustoo]

as a pathological soulfire clicker i say yes, do this


Agreed soulfire never meant to be used in this manner.

[Gustoo]

OP is mad and bad at everquest.


Disagree..OP is a genius and benches 400

[Baler]

Disagree..OP is a genius and benches 400

go back to red
blue players won't understand your 4d chess moves

ps. I'm selling my Silver Chitin Hand Wraps on red if you're interested. ;)

[Gustoo]

Dude you're defending using the soulfire as an all / all infinite rechargeable complete heal clicky.

It's a no brainer way outside the vision of classic. On live no one was even psychopath enough to try to complete that quest as a non paladin. They nerfed ivy hoop here and will certainly nerf the soulfire to match.

Game is insanely easy no reason to exploit this stuff too. Sorry dude.

[Baler]

If it's classic then
shit's classic

sorry dude

[Bazia]

dont care either way but it's more gamebreaking than the hoops were

[uygi]

Rechargeable? You mean quest is repeatable?

[Legidias]

Must equip or give it a 30 sec cast time like donals

[Gustoo]

Lol yeah give it 30 secs like Donald's. Lol no classic here boys

[Baler]

dont care either way but it's more gamebreaking than the hoops were

Remove warrior disc
Remove cleric complete heal
Remove necro twitching clerics
Remove Mod Rods
Remove tracking
Remove pet tracking

... oh man so many "gamebreaking" things that make classic,.. classic.

:rolleyes:

[akagami]

If it's classic then
shit's classic

sorry dude

I mean, if we wanna get all 4d chess on this argument:

How many people knew how to step-by-step do the quest at release, and when was the first one completed? Something being in classic doesn't mean supporting it supports the classic experience. Beyond that, how many people were aware that non-Paladins could abuse it and click it from inventory?

Did raiding guilds in classic do this as a tactic? If so, I'd say keep it. It didn't get patched out until Luclin apparently, so I do feel "shit's classic" has pretty good footing here....but making shit needlessly ridic / easy and encouraging poop socking (on the Lucan spawn) for a click from inventory for classes that can't use it does not seem productive.

[Baler]

I mean, if we wanna get all 4d chess on this argument:

Do you play red?
If no, you can't make 4d chess moves.
else go back to blue ez server.

That post wasn't meant for you

[fzzzt]

Playing classic ten years after classic is not classic.

[Vexenu]

Did Brother Hayle give a serverwide shout in the classic era as well? I'm assuming so. But the fact I don't even remember makes me believe that no one besides Paladins was doing the quest back then. On Blue you see someone complete it on a daily basis. The net effect on the game of everyone using instaclick CHs during raids is far more unclassic than simply nerfing the click to be Paladin only. Not only does that produce a more classic and challenging raid environment, it gives our friendly Paladins a more useful and important raid role. Guilds will still actively be completing Soulfires, but only their Paladins will be able to use them strategically at emergency moments to keep people alive. Sounds pretty cool to me.

[soronil]

If it's classic then
shit's classic

sorry dude

That is the stupidest argument. Why don't you type out ALL the things on p99 that are intentionally not classic, and a brief description of why, and then repeat your argument.

[Baler]

That is the best argument. Classic everquest should remain classic.

I agree

[LostCause]

was already done on red only paladins can use soulfire so easily can be done.

should be that way imo

[Chryorn]

The only thing that's classic about Soulfire being clickable from inventory by every class is the developer's mistake that allowed it. There is nothing classic about lots of non paladins having a Soulfire.

[loramin]

"Classic EverQuest" always has and always will mean two entirely different things, neither of which P99 can repeat. Those two things amount to: how exactly the code on Verant's servers worked, and how everyone remembers the game working. To say it more succinctly, "classic" can mean classic mechanics, or classic environment.

Again, P99 can never have either one perfectly: the exact code is long gone, and obviously it's impossible to recreate memories of a time when no one knew anything, when we have so much more knowledge now. For the most part, P99 aims for classic mechanics over classic environment. There are exceptions like the mob limit, but for obvious reasons it's simpler to try and replicate old code than old experiences.

But as true as all that might be, can we all stop acting like non-Paladins using Soulfire is completely classic? It's clearly not, by the memory/environment definition of the word. People that remember classic don't just remember Soulfire as "a Paladin weapon", they remember it as THE Paladin weapon (or at least a stepping stone to it). It was a part of the first epic weapon quest ... before epic weapons were even a thing! (See the Patch Notes (http://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_Notes#Epic_Weapons_Era); they introduce epics as "new Fiery Avenger style quests.")

Yes mechanically you could always use it on another class ... but people are lying to themselves if they truly believe that's 100% classic, in every way people actually use that word.

[Gustoo]

Seeing a soulfire or fiery avenger in game was a special event for most people in EQ

Especially when you couldn't link. You would say "do you mind if I inspect your equipment sir" and if they said yes you would be stoked to see the flaming swords name and other gear on that awesome dude.

Good times.

[NegaStoat]

People using soulfires for Naggy / Vox kills in pre kunark in Green are the same kind of people that take the glass off of a pinball machine and hit the bumpers with their hand. The OP is absolutely correct.

[bwe]

Baler was like this in the GINA thread, he's purposely being obtuse about the classic "spirit" in favor of "well it was technically possible back then" so he can keep his toys

[loramin]

Baler was like this in the GINA thread, he's purposely being obtuse about the classic "spirit" in favor of "well it was technically possible back then" so he can keep his toys

Baler is just "repeating the party line" here. There's no need to fault him for speaking the truth, and the truth is that 99 times out of 100, if not 999 out of 1000, Rogean and Nilbog go with classic mechanics over a classic environment.

But there are exceptions. Look at Ocean of Tears, where they decided "screw how it worked classically, our zone will not defy the basic rules of cardinal direction!" Or look at Siren's Grotto, where people were still glitching through the zone in Planes of Power, but here it's considered an exploit and has already been fixed, even though that isn't the classic mechanic.

To stay true to their vision I think R&N can make very few changes to classic mechanics here, especially on Green, and the majority of those exceptions have involved "fixing exploits" of one sort or another ...

... but maybe Soulfire is worth making such an exception, both because of it's in-game (dare I say "exploit") impact, and because of it's historical significance? Then again, maybe changing such a significant item's mechanics in any way is too much?

[Palemoon]

Item recharging should be disabled like it was on red too

[Aboo]

Soulfire can only be used by paladins in on the Red Server and they still down raid targets with half the numbers "needed" on the Blue server. I Know its crazy right

[Coridan]

Item recharging should be disabled like it was on red too



Noooo, I am gonna get ring of the dead on my SK, don't you dare.

[Gustoo]

Item recharging should be disabled like it was on red too

Red got tuff treatment.

[Hokojin]

Temple of Veeshan
It has been clear for some time that the current situation in Temple of Veeshan has not been optimal. Numerous guilds are flocking to this zone upon repops, causing mayhem with so many players grouped together. To make matters worse, pulling mechanics have been mastered to the point where raid mobs are able to be isolated from any and all trash and brought all the way to the zone in. It is the staff's opinion that these encountes were never designed or intended to be trivialized in such a way. While the act of splitting does take some careful coordination between a team of pullers, this is just one small part of the raid and leaves everyone else from having to do any work or experience the rest of the zone.

Thus, it is our intention to return the difficulty and spirit of the zone for ALL raid players and to force raids to crawl to their targets. To that end, we are implementing a number of changes, some of them we will specify here, others we will leave to be discovered.

The following Raid Mobs are now Permarooted (Note that this list DOES NOT match up with what was permarooted on Live during Luclin; That is intentional): Dozekar the Cursed, Lendiniara the Keeper, Gozzrem, Telkorenar, Eashen of the Sky, Aaryonar, Lord Vyemm, Lord Koi`Doken (Fight in the water you filthy animals), Lady Mirenilla, Lord Kreizenn, Dagarn the Destroyer, Lord Freshlak, Lady Nevederia, Vulak`Aerr.
Due to these changes, Vulak`Aerr will still spawn as normal but will NOT be attackable or aggroable until all the NToV dragons he formerly called for help from are dead.
We have also made changes to trash mobs and their chasing behavior, as well as further bonding the dragons and their guards together (Awww :D). There are one or two other changes to increase the difficulty of the zone and encounters as well.

All current raid rules will remain in effect in ToV. This means that your raid force must not have a presence in that raid mob's wing when it spawns. If you are in a wing clearing to one mob and another spawns, you may still kill the original target mob but then your entire raid force must vacate the wing before re-clearing to the new raid mob. Yes, that means chose your raid mobs carefully if there are other mobs in window.

As usual, we encourage guilds to work together on raid target selections. Leapfrogging, while technically not against the rules, is still an asshole move.

We look forward to seeing the raid guilds tackle the new challenges and will make further adjustments as necessary.

does nobody remember this

[saftbudet]

Soulfire = classic

Is this all about new pally toons on green trying for epic not want to compete?

[zodium]

OP is mad and bad at everquest.
He recently lost out on his soulfire so he comes to the forums and makes a thread about how 'unfair' it is.

buddy i used to kill so many lucans I'd hand out free soulfire MQs and ask people to come loot testimonies in Awakened

[Gustoo]

does nobody remember this

Yep. Not classic. Changed for reasons.

I don't know nothin about those raids but seems like they made some changes because of some broken dynamics. Live made changes based on raid behavior all the time. For us its tough because our custom client means pulling mechanics all over the place.

[Bardp1999]

Midnight mallets are more game breaking than Soulfire imo

[Ashenden]

Remove warrior disc
Remove cleric complete heal
Remove necro twitching clerics
Remove Mod Rods
Remove tracking
Remove pet tracking

... oh man so many "gamebreaking" things that make classic,.. classic.

:rolleyes:

I love that you use this same stupid argument style in every thread you disagee with. Take a step back, pop some benzos, chill friend.

[fugazi]

Both the Soulfire and Midnight Mallet trivialize what is already trivial content. Nerf that shit for Green, please.

Praise Prexus.

[Jimjam]

If user = paladin cast complete heal target
Else cast cazic touch self

[LostCause]

even without soulfire you can just farm reaper of the dead lol

[Spock2020]

Am I the only one that can't imagine doing that quest every time the 5 charges are gone. Personally I would go nuts doing that over and over for 5 ch.

[Indecisive]

Both the Soulfire and Midnight Mallet trivialize what is already trivial content. Nerf that shit for Green, please.

[Tecmos Deception]

Am I the only one that can't imagine doing that quest every time the 5 charges are gone. Personally I would go nuts doing that over and over for 5 ch.

No, you're not. Probably 90% of people on blue feel like you do. Most folks aren't even using root nets or wort pots let alone soulfires.

5 CHs can be a really big deal in some situations though, which is why the people who farm soulfires (and reapers and ice giant toes and root nets and whatever other clicky you can imagine) do so.

[zodium]

Both the Soulfire and Midnight Mallet trivialize what is already trivial content. Nerf that shit for Green, please.

Praise Prexus.

agreeing hard with this heathen savage, hail bristlebane

[Jimjam]

Limiting the item to 'can equip' is not going be the end of the world... There will be paladins, you don't need a raids worth of soulfires to cover gaps in chains 5-10 charges should be ample. If you do then perhaps your team didn't deserve to win that time.

[loramin]

Limiting the item to 'can equip' is not going be the end of the world...

Yup! And again I truly think you can make a good argument that doing so would be more classic, even with this place's heavy weighing of "mechanics" over environment.

[Benanov]

The major reason I see to nerf it is because I see lots of younger paladins complaining they can't get a spawn due to the raid campers.

You wanna talk "classic" - a lot of patches / nerfs were to remove unintended behavior.

[Bazia]

a shadowknight clicking a soulfire is cringe let's be frank

[zodium]

let pallies be pallies

[Chryorn]

You wanna talk "classic" - a lot of patches / nerfs were to remove unintended behavior.
Yes, a lot of game breaking mechanics that are part of P1999's classic canon only stayed in the game during the Classic to Velious era because hardly anybody knew about them or used them. Once they drew attention the consequences were usually swift.

[joradthepally]

I agree that Soulfire should be nerfed to only usable when equipped considering now that anyone who didn't know it could be clicked from inventory and reads this post will know. Doing this will *slightly* increase early game raid challenge as well as no poop socking on Sir Lucan to get soulfires for classes that don't need it to use vs inventory clicky. It's also a very simple fix (change value of click type from 4 to 5).

[Jimjam]

Doesn't need to be must equip; thats a huge paladin nerf.

Make them 'can equip' so only paladin can use, but from inventory.

[Gustoo]

I agree with being pally inventory clickable. Maybe. Must equip still not bad justless convenient.

[Jimjam]

I agree with being pally inventory clickable. Maybe. Must equip still not bad justless convenient.

Must equip isn't just less convenient, it means a paladin might take a tanking or dps hit (stop laughing at the back).

This is why I support proposition clickable from inventory for the class that can equip it.

[bum3]

I +1 this notion. Classic was rare for even a pally to have it let alone everyone else. I can almost feel the rage they would have back then if they had to compete for their class weapon against another class.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

veRant clearlY didn’t anticipate the 2010s eRa neCk eArd intenuiTy

[bum3]

veRant clearlY didn’t anticipate the 2010s eRa neCk eArd intenuiTy

/friend Chortle

[Sonark]

does nobody remember thisNobody here ever remembers the arbitrary (though perfectly justified) changes the devs make to this game.

[Sweeper41]

OP is mad and bad at everquest.
He recently lost out on his soulfire so he comes to the forums and makes a thread about how 'unfair' it is.


Yeah because your considered bad when the 1 item you need is camped 24/7 by high end raiders and their friends. So so bad.

[Daldaen]

SoulFire is classic to be clicked by all classes however I’d tend to agree it is Ivandyr’s adjacent due to how much it trivializes the classic raid experience.

An interesting point to investigate is faction caps. Due to Innate racial, class and diety faction adjustments, there are certain faction tiers that you can never achieve. For example a Tunare Half Elf druid who maxes crusader faction in Cabilis ends at like Apprehensively and can’t go any higher.

I’m curious if many evil class/race/diety combinations run into a similar issue with Priest of Life making the quest an impossibility for them. Perhaps I will investigate this on Live later this evening to see if that’s the case.

[Gustoo]

Interesting consideration Dald. From what I have seen the good people tend to hate the bad people a lot less than the bad people hate the good people. In EQ and real life.

Meaning a bad guy can get Ally with good but as you mentioned the druid can't get past apprehensively.

Wondering if cab is the exception here though.

[Daldaen]

Tested three combinations on live real quick

Innoruuk, Dark Elf, Necromancer - 5k bone chips got me to Ally
Cazic Thule, Iksar, Monk - 5k bone chips got me to Warmly
Cazic Thule, Iksar, Shadow Knight - 5k bone chips got me to Warmly

All 3 characters reached "You cannot get better Priest of Life" after the 4000th bone chip (2000 turnins) and even at max faction the Iksars couldn't exceed past Warmly. I am not sure if they are high enough in warmly to do SoulFire or not though.

[demonith]

Seeing a soulfire or fiery avenger in game was a special event for most people in EQ

Especially when you couldn't link. You would say "do you mind if I inspect your equipment sir" and if they said yes you would be stoked to see the flaming swords name and other gear on that awesome dude.

Good times.

This gave me the feels. My main on live was a paladin and seeing top tier paladins sporting the avenger was just....... just super neat.

/agrees with op

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I would 100% approve of this change. SoulFire clicky should be PALLY ONLY as intended!

[NegaStoat]

I would 100% approve of this change. SoulFire clicky should be PALLY ONLY as intended!

This discussion of class-only usable clickie items opens up an interesting box though. It would mean that necromancers, shaman, shadowknights & enchanters should all be denied the use of Reclaim Energy from the Magician pet focus items. It's of course classic that the other classes can make use of them even if they can't be equipped, but you see my point.

I guess the key issue is one of "how much does it trivialize raiding?" for an item in question. But it's not far off to see that some might view the difficulty in drawing a line at one spot instead of another.

[Bazia]

This discussion of class-only usable clickie items opens up an interesting box though. It would mean that necromancers, shaman, shadowknights & enchanters should all be denied the use of Reclaim Energy from the Magician pet focus items. It's of course classic that the other classes can make use of them even if they can't be equipped, but you see my point.

I guess the key issue is one of "how much does it trivialize raiding?" for an item in question. But it's not far off to see that some might view the difficulty in drawing a line at one spot instead of another.

not really difficult to deicde, soulfire gives everyone in a raid 5 clicky complete heals, reclaim gives you 80 mana

[NegaStoat]

not really difficult to deicde, soulfire gives everyone in a raid 5 clicky complete heals, reclaim gives you 80 mana

Oh, I completely agree. I guess I'm just mildly concerned that if the staff breaks down and agrees that Soulfire needs a class limit, that butthurt raiders will use the move as a springboard to get other items nerfed out of spite. Drugs are kinda real here.

[Primordial Ooze]

I agree, should be pally only, clickable from inventory.

I think one effect of this will be an uptick in clerics, because more of them will be needed on raids when half your force doesn't have access to 5 instant cheals.

[demonith]

I mean it is a slippery slope on the coolness of items that allow you to use a class specific skill on a class other than what has access to it (see guise of deceiver). but most of those are balanced in a way that are more an interesting quirk, or just a quality of life improvement.

in the example of reclaim energy, the only class that doesn't inherently have that spell is the shaman. which imho that class has enough going for it.

But i do get what you are saying where lawyer-questing comes in and the what-aboutisums come rolling in, when taking a deep breath and not being a neck beard is presented with some basic info. Soulfire is a paladin quest, for a paladin sword that has a neat effect. So instead of making paladins fight the spectrum that p99 brings out in all of us to get a neat paladin sword, just nerf the damn thing. if for no other reason to save yourself the petitions.

[Albane]

https://i.imgur.com/1gBWIug.gif


What's your verdict on the /list?

[Albane]

If it's classic then
shit's classic

sorry dude

You know what's classic? Nobody knowing what's going on and taking 25+ days played to get to 50. Remove the stuff we can all exploit thanks to knowledge and the internet.

[Rooj]

Signed.

[Baler]

What's your verdict on the /list?
You know what's classic? Nobody knowing what's going on and taking 25+ days played to get to 50. Remove the stuff we can all exploit thanks to knowledge and the internet.

First, Don't double post in green discussion.

/list is good

The argument that things are being "exploited" due to modern knowledge is an endless argument against anything people deem "exploitable". This is one issue that I disagree with nilbog on. If it was in classic it should be on green. Exploits and all.

Now that said. Soulfire clickie is not an exploit, it's an item that has a clickie mechanic.
shit's classic

[Dolalin]

@Nilbog @Rogean a compromise could be to era lock the Soulfire clicky so it's not usable until the very end of the timeline (ie only on Blue).

But I too would support a global change to make the click paladin only. For whatever my opinion is worth :D

[Baler]

What don't people understand about
Classic Everquest

Where is the line drawn if we cry loud enough for the staff to make a nonclassic change?
I'm not innocent of crying loudly. So it's easy for me to spot.

If they want to make a change on Blue, fine I guess.
Green should remain pure however.

edit: I just don't understand why this is suddenly an issue for people after 10 years.
Sorry I can't relate and i've seen all content p99 has to offer.

[Erati]

Paladins get the only lvl 50 epic in the game AND they want to hoarde SoulFire to themselves too.

I don't have words.

[saftbudet]

If anything undo change to Ivandyr's Hoop. Its unclassic change and should be restored.

[zodium]

Where is the line drawn if we cry loud enough for the staff to make a nonclassic change?


there can be a line that goes where some part of the classic immersion itself becomes an impediment to experiencing (cf. enjoying) era-defining content to a degree that compromises the purpose of recreating that content to begin with.

it depends whether you see p99's pursuit of mechanical classicness as a software development project or as a historical reenactment project. i'm not sure the devs are consistent on it, reenactment logic was used with Ivandyr's Hoop more or less while in other cases it seems to be pure software replication. that's prolly okay.

[branamil]

p99, Selectively Classic ®

[zodium]

can't believe this historical reenactment doesn't even make us grow our own food over the course of a real year with era accurate technology just because it would turn the whole thing into an exercise in historical farming, fucking posers

[Rooj]

For the past 10 years, the line is where ever the staff wants it to be. Things don't have to be (and they can't be anyway) 100% the way it was. The staff wants the server to be as close to classic as possible, while also recapturing the classic FEEL. Sometimes, they have to choose between one or the other.

If I'm not mistaken, SoulFire wasn't changed until a bit after Luclin, so that's the main argument for it - it's classic.

The main argument against it is that there also wasn't everyone and their mother running around with or camping it on classic, like there was on Blue, and will be on Green. People weren't using it to trivialize content on classic. I'm not saying no one ever used it, but the amount of people who did during classic vs. the amount of people who did on Blue was incomparable and totally altered the classic feel and experience.

I don't think the staff will change it honestly, but I do think it's worth discussing and considering.

[Vexenu]

Boxing is classic. But boxing is banned for the health of the server. The devs intentionally made an un-classic rule because doing so was paradoxically the only way to maintain the classic feel of the server given the realities of P1999 having free accounts and the boxing of multiple toons being much easier with today's computers.

SoulFire being clickable by all classes is also classic. But that should be changed for the same reason boxing is banned: because it's the only way to preserve the classic feel of the raiding environment. The reality is that the vast, overwhelming majority of classic raids had no one using a SoulFire. But on P1999 it's standard raid gear. There is simply no way to unscramble the egg that is SoulFire, the same way that there is no way to make the game feel classic if every other player is boxing. In both cases the only choice to preserve the classic feel is to eliminate the option entirely. Failure to do so results in a much less classic environment like we have now on Blue, where every remotely serious raider is carrying around 5 instacast CHs in their pocket.

[sedrie.bellamie]

can't believe this historical reenactment doesn't even make us grow our own food over the course of a real year with era accurate technology just because it would turn the whole thing into an exercise in historical farming, fucking posers

I buy vintage hotpockets off of ebay

and crystal pepsi

limited soulfire to paladin only

[Leifer7inches]

I wasn't aware of this exploit - (I think its appropriate to call it an exploit). But now that it seems common knowledge I don't think I will roll my paladin that I intended. I like classic EQ because it was fun and challenging. In '99-02 time frame I didn't work and I could play 10+ hours a day so being patient was much easier. I work and have a family now and I don't think I'd have much fun waiting in lines or doing /lists. It was tough enough to compete with other paladins to get Soulfire - now I'd have to compete with multitudes of raiders as well?

The p99 experience seems wonderful and it is free monetarily. But it is still extremely time consuming which is another kind of cost. It is disheartening to see that particular cost looking to be higher than I was planning. I really appreciate the community and especially those putting all the work into it, and I am going to try playing as much as possible. Maybe I will stick with that easy-peasy druid I first considered.

[loramin]

I wasn't aware of this exploit - (I think its appropriate to call it an exploit). But now that it seems common knowledge I don't think I will roll my paladin that I intended. I like classic EQ because it was fun and challenging. In '99-02 time frame I didn't work and I could play 10+ hours a day so being patient was much easier. I work and have a family now and I don't think I'd have much fun waiting in lines or doing /lists. It was tough enough to compete with other paladins to get Soulfire - now I'd have to compete with multitudes of raiders as well?

The p99 experience seems wonderful and it is free monetarily. But it is still extremely time consuming which is another kind of cost. It is disheartening to see that particular cost looking to be higher than I was planning. I really appreciate the community and especially those putting all the work into it, and I am going to try playing as much as possible. Maybe I will stick with that easy-peasy druid I first considered.

Have you seen https://www.project1999.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2171? If that poll is any indication (and it is just a forum poll, albeit one with a lot of response) you'll see Paladins are extremely "unpopular" relative to other classes (like Druid).

The vast vast majority of Paladin-specific stuff is going to be easier for you to get than (say) Druid-specific stuff (not like there are a ton of items on that list in classic, but still). And even Soulfire, despite raiders wanting it, will absolutely be attainable by Paladins wanting to get their epic.

I mean Blue has had raiders clicking the stupid thing (in a very un-classic way) for ten years: ask any Paladin here if it's a true impediment (I don't play Paladin, so I actually don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure they all got their epic in spite of it).

[NegaStoat]

I wasn't aware of this exploit - (I think its appropriate to call it an exploit). But now that it seems common knowledge I don't think I will roll my paladin that I intended. I like classic EQ because it was fun and challenging. In '99-02 time frame I didn't work and I could play 10+ hours a day so being patient was much easier. I work and have a family now and I don't think I'd have much fun waiting in lines or doing /lists. It was tough enough to compete with other paladins to get Soulfire - now I'd have to compete with multitudes of raiders as well?

The p99 experience seems wonderful and it is free monetarily. But it is still extremely time consuming which is another kind of cost. It is disheartening to see that particular cost looking to be higher than I was planning. I really appreciate the community and especially those putting all the work into it, and I am going to try playing as much as possible. Maybe I will stick with that easy-peasy druid I first considered.

Absolutely play the character you want to play, and make some friends and quest for Soulfire the way the game intended. As mentioned above, paladin players on Blue have gotten the sword if they wanted it with only minimal issues. It may require some camping and discussions with other players in the zone but nothing more than what you'd face in trying to camp a Ghoulbane in Guk for yourself.

[Samaritan]

was already done on red only paladins can use soulfire so easily can be done.

should be that way imo

[Sonark]

SoulFire is classic to be clicked by all classes however I’d tend to agree it is Ivandyr’s adjacent due to how much it trivializes the classic raid experience.

An interesting point to investigate is faction caps. Due to Innate racial, class and diety faction adjustments, there are certain faction tiers that you can never achieve. For example a Tunare Half Elf druid who maxes crusader faction in Cabilis ends at like Apprehensively and can’t go any higher.

I’m curious if many evil class/race/diety combinations run into a similar issue with Priest of Life making the quest an impossibility for them. Perhaps I will investigate this on Live later this evening to see if that’s the case.I MQ'd the entire Paladin 1.0 with my Iksar Monk on Live, including questing for Soulfire.

I think I actually did the quest again, and got another Soulfire just sitting in my bank.

So an Iksar Monk I guess wouldn't have as bad of faction as an Iksar Shadow Knight? But I maxed out at...above amiable for sure. Is that warmly? and it still worked.

I just killed Joren Nobleheart for the Ghoulbane.

[Kirdan]

Here's another vote for nerfing soulfire.

If this is about the classic experience and not classic to the letter, then nerfing soulfire to paladin only clickable from inventory is the only reasonable solution.

Soulfires being used by non-paladins to sustain instant engages and prolonged fights on top tier raid content was not a part of classic. As soon as players started abusing it, they nerfed it to paladin only clickable from inventory. The fact that this happened shortly after the scope of this project is not a good excuse to prevent the nerf. If we want the classic experience, then we want to raid without non-paladins abusing soulfires.

It's especially egregious to leave soulfire untouched given the treatment of ivandyr's hoop in the past.

[Dildy]

Nerf Soulfire.

Artelius Lightweaver 60 PAL <Auld Lang Syne>

[Zekayy]

Have you seen https://www.project1999.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2171? If that poll is any indication (and it is just a forum poll, albeit one with a lot of response) you'll see Paladins are extremely "unpopular" relative to other classes (like Druid).

The vast vast majority of Paladin-specific stuff is going to be easier for you to get than (say) Druid-specific stuff (not like there are a ton of items on that list in classic, but still). And even Soulfire, despite raiders wanting it, will absolutely be attainable by Paladins wanting to get their epic.

I mean Blue has had raiders clicking the stupid thing (in a very un-classic way) for ten years: ask any Paladin here if it's a true impediment (I don't play Paladin, so I actually don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure they all got their epic in spite of it).

Lol you have no idea what you are talking about most pallies dont have their epic for the simple fact of Lucan p99ers kill him and the guards too so it makes it nearly impossible for pallies to get their epics I might roll a pally on green early to get my soulfire but maybe not if this doesnt get changed hes up every 7 hours sure but theres always someone there camping him and Ive seen guilds fuck over the pallies trying to do there epic sooo https://wiki.project1999.com/Sir_Lucan_D%27Lere

[Sarkhan]

<--- Another Paladin throwing his name behind nerfing soulfires

[Argh]

They don't have 7k to buy the MQ of it for their epic?

[Primordial Ooze]

Lol you have no idea what you are talking about most pallies dont have their epic for the simple fact of Lucan p99ers kill him and the guards too so it makes it nearly impossible for pallies to get their epics I might roll a pally on green early to get my soulfire but maybe not if this doesnt get changed hes up every 7 hours sure but theres always someone there camping him and Ive seen guilds fuck over the pallies trying to do there epic sooo https://wiki.project1999.com/Sir_Lucan_D%27Lere

I'm all for making soulfire pally only, but I gotta say if you can't get to Lucan, you're not trying very hard. I've gone in there lots of times and the room's been empty. If you can keep down the two that spawn in the room with him, people respect the camp. I've camped it a couple times, and both times I got there about 2 hours before his spawn time, kept his room down, and everyone respected it. People came or logged in and out, especially as it got closer to his spawn timer, but when they saw me there actively camping him, they left. I don't see any reason it won't be the same on green.

All that said, yeah I'd like to see that thing nerfed to pally only, clickable from inventory. It wasn't meant to be exploited the way it was on blue.

[enesis]

Nerf Soulfire.

Artelius Lightweaver 60 PAL <Auld Lang Syne>

[Ashenden]

Soulfire
Any Slot / Can Equip.

Cmon.

[Zekayy]

I'm all for making soulfire pally only, but I gotta say if you can't get to Lucan, you're not trying very hard. I've gone in there lots of times and the room's been empty. If you can keep down the two that spawn in the room with him, people respect the camp. I've camped it a couple times, and both times I got there about 2 hours before his spawn time, kept his room down, and everyone respected it. People came or logged in and out, especially as it got closer to his spawn timer, but when they saw me there actively camping him, they left. I don't see any reason it won't be the same on green.

All that said, yeah I'd like to see that thing nerfed to pally only, clickable from inventory. It wasn't meant to be exploited the way it was on blue.

People do not respect the camp they pull him before the pallies have a chance Ive seen people get suspended over lucan not guild suspended but account suspensions......

[Zekayy]

They don't have 7k to buy the MQ of it for their epic?

Wont be 7k on green