6 level 16 mages down EE in Guk?

[skorge]

Just heard this this morning from a friend. He said it went down on the discord. Can anyone confirm this? If so, this is simply madness and the devs need to fix mages ASAP.

I know beta is 10x exp but all the highest toons are mages. The level of OP in mages currently will ruin the whole entire experience. Sorry to say.

I hope this not true. Would like anyone to chime in if they heard the same or can confirm this?

[Deathrydar]

Just heard this this morning from a friend. He said it went down on the discord. Can anyone confirm this? If so, this is simply madness and the devs need to fix mages ASAP.

I know beta is 10x exp but all the highest toons are mages. The level of OP in mages currently will ruin the whole entire experience. Sorry to say.

I hope this not true. Would like anyone to chime in if they heard the same or can confirm this?

It sucks, but I expect the green server to be mostly all solo classes. So magicians being everywhere will be a norm, so all I can say is, get used to it.

/shrug.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Me hAs consisTenly grouPed with Ppl all WeK
Me thInk maG feArs overBlowN
AlsO whO cAre if ppl antiSoc

[Deathrydar]

AlsO whO cAre if ppl antiSoc

I care! The essence of this game is helping each other! And it's the difference between this game and, let's say, Classic WoW.

So, it's kind of important.

[Kruel]

can confirm this is classic! Mages are OP in Vanilla. They just get screwed when it comes to raids. Pets path super weird and wipe the raids so most times they aren't even allowed to use a pet. 6 mages in a group are crazy.... just don't die lol

[skorge]

It sucks, but I expect the green server to be mostly all solo classes. So magicians being everywhere will be a norm, so all I can say is, get used to it.

/shrug.

You totally miss the point. The point is mage pets are still casting spells. They are not in their true form right now on Green. There has been patch notes provided in the Bugs forum to prove this 100%. Nobody is even saying anything about this! It disgusts me quite frankly. People will rather have a broke launch on Green to get a head start for a few pixels that won't even matter due to the /list function.

It completely baffles me. I feel like I am lone ranger here for wanting the server to emulate how it was on classic launch. Pets were no where near as good as they are here on blue and now green. It's a HUGE deal. It completely changes things and makes things unclassic.

If the launch needs to be delayed, then so be it. It would be well worth it. Heck right now Kunark items are dropping...there are a TON of bugs being reported.

[Indecisive]

I care! The essence of this game is helping each other!

The essence of the game is entirely personal. As long as someone isn't breaking the rules, how they play, or how you play, or how I play, is all valid. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to enjoy something. That's just gatekeeping.

[skorge]

can confirm this is classic! Mages are OP in Vanilla. They just get screwed when it comes to raids. Pets path super weird and wipe the raids so most times they aren't even allowed to use a pet. 6 mages in a group are crazy.... just don't die lol

Read this, see actual patch notes from May 1999: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335869

So, no you are wrong...mage pets are OP on P99, not classic! My first character was mage and the pets sucked balls. The pets did not cast up until around 2.5 months in. Pets post level 20 did not exist in-game due to research broke. If research would have been fixed, the only way to get a pet post 20 would have been through research. Keep in mind that research drops were 300% rarer at the time. So most mages who made it past 20 ended up using the level 20 pet until 2.5 months in when it got fixed.

[Deathrydar]

The essence of the game is entirely personal. As long as someone isn't breaking the rules, how they play, or how you play, or how I play, is all valid. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to enjoy something. That's just gatekeeping.

I agree with you. You're missing my point though. Thanks!

[Indecisive]

I agree with you. You're missing my point though. Thanks!

https://i.imgur.com/D5fNXYb.jpg

[Kruel]

well now I change my toon. If it was indeed classic and proven, I believe mages should be as they were in classic at the start.

[Aaramis]

Read this, see actual patch notes from May 1999: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335869

So, no you are wrong...mage pets are OP on P99, not classic! My first character was mage and the pets sucked balls. The pets did not cast up until around 2.5 months in. Pets post level 20 did not exist in-game due to research broke. If research would have been fixed, the only way to get a pet post 20 would have been through research. Keep in mind that research drops were 300% rarer at the time. So most mages who made it past 20 ended up using the level 20 pet until 2.5 months in when it got fixed.

So, do we go 100% classic and have a class that is, by all accounts, unplayable?
Doesn't sound fun to me. Sometimes QoL changes are a good thing.

That said, pets right now are far too strong at low levels, but start to get weak at higher levels.

[Deathrydar]

So, do we go 100% classic and have a class that is, by all accounts, unplayable?
Doesn't sound fun to me. Sometimes QoL changes are a good thing.

That said, pets right now are far too strong at low levels, but start to get weak at higher levels.

Yeah, starting a class for the sake of starting it and knowing it will be broken and then fixed later makes no sense.

[skorge]

So, do we go 100% classic and have a class that is, by all accounts, unplayable?
Doesn't sound fun to me. Sometimes QoL changes are a good thing.

That said, pets right now are far too strong at low levels, but start to get weak at higher levels.

This is a weird attitude I notice people have who play here. How does mage pets being weaker than they are now all of a sudden make them unplayable? You aren't the first one who I've heard say this. You guys either want them OP or not playable at all it seems...

It's really not your choice. If P99 stands true to classic you will not be able to argue against that. Those were how things were on launch for mages. In true spirit of classicneess, P99 should abide by it. It's not just mage pets, it's necro pets too.

Either way, both classes are still highly playable, they just won't be OP.

[Vidar]

Just a question, How is the current pet state gonna mess up green?

[Aaramis]

This is a weird attitude I notice people have who play here. How does mage pets being weaker than they are now all of a sudden make them unplayable? You aren't the first one who I've heard say this. You guys either want them OP or not playable at all it seems...

It's really not your choice. If P99 stands true to classic you will not be able to argue against that. Those were how things were on launch for mages. In true spirit of classicneess, P99 should abide by it. It's not just mage pets, it's necro pets too.

Either way, both classes are still highly playable, they just won't be OP.

But the original Mage apparently had no pets post-20. To me that's straight up broken and unplayable. Not sure what your definition is.

[Deathrydar]

But the original Mage apparently had no pets post-20. To me that's straight up broken and unplayable.

Agreed!

[Vexenu]

Even if Mage pets weren't casting spells during launch it wouldn't really matter. They are still an OP class simply due to the way that NPCs scale versus players. A low level Mage pet is much stronger than a low level player character.

[skorge]

Even if Mage pets weren't casting spells during launch it wouldn't really matter. They are still an OP class simply due to the way that NPCs scale versus players. A low level Mage pet is much stronger than a low level player character.

They died super fast....you can tell by all the comments posted by low level mages during early 1999. Maybe that's another issue here on P99, mage pets have more hps than they should? Would be hard to verify.

[skorge]

Agreed!

The issue was research was flat our broke...all they have to do is make sure research works. Now remember, the research drops were 300% rarer at the time though. As long as research functions this should not be an issue.

[skorge]

Quote from a player on 05/99 before patch added mage pet spells:

So far, I have only tried the fire elemental, and the earth elemental.
At low levels the attacks of these two beasts were similar, with the
exception being that the fire elemental had VERY little heath to
spare, and thus never lasted long in any battle I fought in. I can
see an advantage to a fires shield in a battle with multiple mobs, but
it simply died too quickly in battle. At levels 8 and 12, the earth
elemental was all that I could afford.

Mad props to Dolalin for finding all this: From https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.games.everquest/K609UirA0uw/XeKGvPgXNZoJ

Maybe the pets on P99 have too much hps if they aren't dying super fast?

[Leifer7inches]

The only thing that bothers me about all the mages that will be running around is that it makes it tougher for tanks to find groups. I remember back in Kunark in '00 mages would just "Pffftt" when a tank wanted to join a PUG. Several mages, an enchanter and more range DPS was the ultimate group makeup. Everyone else hodge-podged groups together and progressed at a fraction of the mage groups. Guild groups weren't much different until the mages and enchanters reached max level and started pitying the tanks in the guild.

[Dolalin]

I found more evidence today that mage earth pets didn't receive root until late October 1999. The first spell the earth pet cast was an earthquake dd/stun, like the air pet's.

Added to thread here:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335869

[dussle27]

Anyone have any evidence to support that pets weren't casting spells at classic launch?

edit: Dolalin just answered my question

[skorge]

The only thing that bothers me about all the mages that will be running around is that it makes it tougher for tanks to find groups. I remember back in Kunark in '00 mages would just "Pffftt" when a tank wanted to join a PUG. Several mages, an enchanter and more range DPS was the ultimate group makeup. Everyone else hodge-podged groups together and progressed at a fraction of the mage groups. Guild groups weren't much different until the mages and enchanters reached max level and started pitying the tanks in the guild.

Imagine how much worse it will be in Vanilla. Let's be real, when P99 launched in 2009 it only had a fraction of players than it does now. Nobody has a clue of how crazy Green will be. It will have way more players for sure though. At this moment in time, Green is going to be seeing a TON of mages.

[Castle2.0]

Every character slot I have is going to be a mage.

DE mage.
Eru mage.
Gnome mage.

Can't wait!

[Mblake81]

That's just gatekeeping.

Redditors.

I want to neg you but have good day. :)

[Indecisive]

Redditors.

What's wrong with Reddit?! The gaming stuff is pretty great. The political stuff is a dumpster-fire, though.

[yraapt]

At launch casters in general are going to be more powerful than melee classes with crap gear. That is just reality.

If we want pure classic, mage pets were kind of crappy at the original launch. However if you go down that road, necro pets were OP back then (dagger delay, which they said is not happening for green). Did you want to nerf pets or did you want pure classic?

[Mblake81]

What's wrong with Reddit?! The gaming stuff is pretty great. The political stuff is a dumpster-fire, though.

no troll, big yikes, hard pass.

Even [H]ardforum has gone down the drain.

[skorge]

At launch casters in general are going to be more powerful than melee classes with crap gear. That is just reality.

If we want pure classic, mage pets were kind of crappy at the original launch. However if you go down that road, necro pets were OP back then (dagger delay, which they said is not happening for green). Did you want to nerf pets or did you want pure classic?

Pure classic. Necros being OP is pure classic. Necros crapped all over mages back then, at least for a short while. I want EQ classic done right. Also keep in mind it took Verant a long time for mage pets to dual wield (read the following):

Necro pets should not equip two of the same weapon until January 2000 patch era (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335907)

Necro pets should not lifetap until January 2000 patch era (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335905)

So yes, necros > mages for a long time in vanilla. It's a fact.

[FishBait01]

how about you play on green before you cry.

there are warriors druids and bards 40+ As well as the mages and necros

[FishBait01]

Read this, see actual patch notes from May 1999: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335869

So, no you are wrong...mage pets are OP on P99, not classic! My first character was mage and the pets sucked balls. The pets did not cast up until around 2.5 months in. Pets post level 20 did not exist in-game due to research broke. If research would have been fixed, the only way to get a pet post 20 would have been through research. Keep in mind that research drops were 300% rarer at the time. So most mages who made it past 20 ended up using the level 20 pet until 2.5 months in when it got fixed.

you obv have never played a mage. their pets are merely a tank, at lvl 16, mages cast 2-3 spells and the mob is dead

[akagami]

You totally miss the point. The point is mage pets are still casting spells. They are not in their true form right now on Green. There has been patch notes provided in the Bugs forum to prove this 100%. Nobody is even saying anything about this! It disgusts me quite frankly. People will rather have a broke launch on Green to get a head start for a few pixels that won't even matter due to the /list function.

It completely baffles me. I feel like I am lone ranger here for wanting the server to emulate how it was on classic launch. Pets were no where near as good as they are here on blue and now green. It's a HUGE deal. It completely changes things and makes things unclassic.

If the launch needs to be delayed, then so be it. It would be well worth it. Heck right now Kunark items are dropping...there are a TON of bugs being reported.

It's not about the pets casting spells. It's pet walling in general. That's why TLPs "fixed" this mechanic.

[skorge]

you obv have never played a mage. their pets are merely a tank, at lvl 16, mages cast 2-3 spells and the mob is dead

What class did you play back in March of 99 through June? I'm willing to bet it wasn't a mage, LOL.

[skorge]

how about you play on green before you cry.

there are warriors druids and bards 40+ As well as the mages and necros

Cool. Is the server up yet? Oh wait...

PS - beta is not a realistic expectation of actual launch, as exp rate is jacked and boxing is allowed, as others have stated...ive seen way more many high level mages than any other class though but due to the previously stated you cant really expect the same for launch - nobody truly knows yet.

[Insaiyan]

But guys what about the enchanter pet!:rolleyes:

[Tecmos Deception]

Read this, see actual patch notes from May 1999: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335869

So, no you are wrong...mage pets are OP on P99, not classic! My first character was mage and the pets sucked balls. The pets did not cast up until around 2.5 months in. Pets post level 20 did not exist in-game due to research broke. If research would have been fixed, the only way to get a pet post 20 would have been through research. Keep in mind that research drops were 300% rarer at the time. So most mages who made it past 20 ended up using the level 20 pet until 2.5 months in when it got fixed.

If pets cast or not doesn't affect whether 6 level 16 mages killed EE. The pets wouldn't have stuck any spells on a mob that much higher level than them anyway.

Mages may be overpowered on green compared to classic, but if that's your concern then pursue it rationally and with evidence the staff will act on, not with threads like this.

[Vexenu]

I don't think research difficulty will have a big impact on Mages either, because there is always at least one pet available from a vendor at every spell level. And you really don't need a specific pet to level a Mage, especially if you get a multi Mage party going where you just zerg mobs with multiple pets.

[Tecmos Deception]

Quote from a player on 05/99 before patch added mage pet spells:



Mad props to Dolalin for finding all this: From https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.games.everquest/K609UirA0uw/XeKGvPgXNZoJ

Maybe the pets on P99 have too much hps if they aren't dying super fast?

Pretty sure low-level fire pets DO actually diaf (kek) in realistic leveling situations.

You don't have enough context here, with this alone, to make any sound conclusions.

Was this guy using a max-level summon? What level mob was he fighting? Was he grouped or solo, kiting or letting his pet tank fully? Did his pet put up a damage shield before the fight or was it not on yet? All this stuff could easily be true or not, and these things would drastically affect the way a player who doesn't know about them perceives the strength of this pet. Nowadays we know to think about this. The first month or whatever of classic, almost nobody did.

Again, I'm not trying to argue that the pets are too strong or too weak, classic or not. I'm just pointing out that you aren't making a very good case for change, regardless. Accumulate evidence, present it in a thoughtful way without bias or emotion involved, and make a good thread.

[DMN]

I think it'll be ok as long as they make the 20+ mage pets research only.

As far as people spamming pets/pet classes, it's kind of the weird "it's 2019 and we are still playing EQ" thing. No one back then would bother leveling up a bunch of mages just to push into a camp like manastone.

I'm guessing 3 necros could do it at 20 with their lifetaps. assuming they actually work right for this time period. heh

[DMN]

I don't think research difficulty will have a big impact on Mages either, because there is always at least one pet available from a vendor at every spell level. And you really don't need a specific pet to level a Mage, especially if you get a multi Mage party going where you just zerg mobs with multiple pets.

Only several months after launch do they add higher level mage pets to vendors.

[WaffleztheAndal]

I imagine there just isn't time before green launch to tune, balance and implement these kinds of big balance changes, assuming the staff accepted them. Green launch is less than ten days away, and people have taken time off, scheduled around the launch date etc.

[skorge]

I don't think research difficulty will have a big impact on Mages either, because there is always at least one pet available from a vendor at every spell level. And you really don't need a specific pet to level a Mage, especially if you get a multi Mage party going where you just zerg mobs with multiple pets.

That vendor did NOT sell pet spells during this era...lol

[skorge]

If pets cast or not doesn't affect whether 6 level 16 mages killed EE. The pets wouldn't have stuck any spells on a mob that much higher level than them anyway.

Mages may be overpowered on green compared to classic, but if that's your concern then pursue it rationally and with evidence the staff will act on, not with threads like this.

Research is allowed proven bro, lol...and maybe their pets were landing spells (maybe pets can land on spells on npcs regardless of level, no clue). Hell I don't even know if it's true or not yet...regardless, im just referring to the FACT mage pets did not cast spells in this era, up until about 2.5 months in. They did NOT dual wield till later. They were on researchable past 20 until 2.5 months in (and research was broke - im for allowing research to be fixed).

[Dolalin]

There is a classic limit of 4 pets on an NPC at any one time. I've submitted a new bug report to that effect.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336657

Verant thought about pet walling already and purposely made it impossible.

[bum3]

Everyone knows on classic eq launch up till duel wield was added you give your pets 2h weps. We all did it. Wife was mage on launch and I was necro. Her pet destroyed mine but she never used fire pet. Cause they died so quickly.

[zames180]

As the level 48 mage in the GUK group the OP is talking about, I think he is being a bit over dramatic about everything. The group was 2 mages, a warrior. Shaman, Druid and bard... someone made a thread about some BS they know nothing about and now it’s vlown up...

[Argh]

Mages were OP during classic though?

[Tecmos Deception]

Research is allowed proven bro, lol...and maybe their pets were landing spells (maybe pets can land on spells on npcs regardless of level, no clue). Hell I don't even know if it's true or not yet...regardless, im just referring to the FACT mage pets did not cast spells in this era, up until about 2.5 months in. They did NOT dual wield till later. They were on researchable past 20 until 2.5 months in (and research was broke - im for allowing research to be fixed).

Ok then. As I already said, compile your research and present it in a concise way in a good thread. You can't just randomly point to individual comments from back in the day and ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS in your summary of things while admitting that you don't even know the truth or falsehood of some of the things you're talking about and then be upset when the staff don't bend over backwards to enact the changes you think they should.

[soronil]

Ok then. As I already said, compile your research and present it in a concise way in a good thread. You can't just randomly point to individual comments from back in the day and ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS in your summary of things while admitting that you don't even know the truth or falsehood of some of the things you're talking about and then be upset when the staff don't bend over backwards to enact the changes you think they should.

skorge doesn't want to do the work and file his own bugs properly, he just wants to bitch in every thread he can.

[akagami]

There is a classic limit of 4 pets on an NPC at any one time. I've submitted a new bug report to that effect.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336657

Verant thought about pet walling already and purposely made it impossible.

Good idea to put it in if it isn't already.

[deadlycupcakez]

You totally miss the point. The point is mage pets are still casting spells. They are not in their true form right now on Green. There has been patch notes provided in the Bugs forum to prove this 100%. Nobody is even saying anything about this! It disgusts me quite frankly. People will rather have a broke launch on Green to get a head start for a few pixels that won't even matter due to the /list function.

It completely baffles me. I feel like I am lone ranger here for wanting the server to emulate how it was on classic launch. Pets were no where near as good as they are here on blue and now green. It's a HUGE deal. It completely changes things and makes things unclassic.

If the launch needs to be delayed, then so be it. It would be well worth it. Heck right now Kunark items are dropping...there are a TON of bugs being reported.

I hope they buff the hell out of the 39+ pets as they were classically SO STRONG and the patch notes referenced also refer to a nerf to these later level pets

[Natewest1987]

I agree.

NERF MAGES - so my epeen can grow as a necro =-)

[sciception]

It sucks, but I expect the green server to be mostly all solo classes. So magicians being everywhere will be a norm, so all I can say is, get used to it.

/shrug.

Nothing is going to be nerfed. Not the exploit quest in RV or Qeynos, not the mage pet armies, nothing. If it was, the GMs would have said so already. This is a clearly a countdown to a *#*$fest Everyone is just trying find a way to exploit the game and I haven't heard one thing from the GM's about fixing it, just supposition. So quest your way to level 8 in an hour, load up your 8 mage pets and go exploit the game without a Tank or even a Healer for that matter. Just load up on Malachites, nothing else is needed. Beta has shown that this isn't Classic EQ at all, it's just an exploit buffet.

I want my trinity back.

[Fammaden]

Nothing is going to be nerfed. Not the exploit quest in RV or Qeynos, not the mage pet armies, nothing. If it was, the GMs would have said so already. This is a clearly a countdown to a *#*$fest Everyone is just trying find a way to exploit the game and I haven't heard one thing from the GM's about fixing it, just supposition. So quest your way to level 8 in an hour, load up your 8 mage pets and go exploit the game without a Tank or even a Healer for that matter. Just load up on Malachites, nothing else is needed. Beta has shown that this isn't Classic EQ at all, it's just an exploit buffet.

This isn't exploits its just too much time with the game and too much knowledge coupled with the usual min/max powergaming approach. No one says you have to play this way or play with those specific people. If there's really 1k+ on the server then you'll have plenty of people to do traditional leveling groups with.

If what you mean is you're rustled that your traditional six man group is going to get beat to every milestone and legacy item by six-mage farm teams, then yeah sucks for you. But honestly anyone paying attention or connected with the high end players on blue has known this is exactly what would happen for six months since the server launch was first announced.

People will get their server firsts, get to 50, get their legacy items....some of them will stay for raiding, many of the racers will get bored or burnt out and fade away. Meanwhile the server will still be there for people who just want to play and level up toons in vanilla EQ. As long as there is population that is.

I do agree that there's not likely to be any major mechanic changes like completely reverting a bunch of magician pet skills this close to launch. They are making the bug fixes and smaller classic adjustments, but its a week away now. As far as content and mechanics, what we see on beta is probably what we are going to get at launch, for the most part.

[Bondrake]

You totally miss the point. The point is mage pets are still casting spells. They are not in their true form right now on Green. There has been patch notes provided in the Bugs forum to prove this 100%. Nobody is even saying anything about this! It disgusts me quite frankly. People will rather have a broke launch on Green to get a head start for a few pixels that won't even matter due to the /list function.

It completely baffles me. I feel like I am lone ranger here for wanting the server to emulate how it was on classic launch. Pets were no where near as good as they are here on blue and now green. It's a HUGE deal. It completely changes things and makes things unclassic.

If the launch needs to be delayed, then so be it. It would be well worth it. Heck right now Kunark items are dropping...there are a TON of bugs being reported.

Who cares stop crying about it. Jesus I bet you're a grown man also. SAD!

[Rang]

Wow. People camping mana stones on a beta server is triggering people this hard already? I’m going to be staying away from most public locations for a month or two after launch because someone may legitimately go postal if this is the response from people camping EE on a beta server.

[Gustoo]

hehhh

Anyone get to beta test the /list feature?

[bum3]

Wow. People camping mana stones on a beta server is triggering people this hard already? I’m going to be staying away from most public locations for a month or two after launch because someone may legitimately go postal if this is the response from people camping EE on a beta server.

You can kill tadpoles with me.

[Kanuvan]

how about you play on green before you cry.

there are warriors druids and bards 40+ As well as the mages and necros

guess who they duo'd trio with :cool:

[the_only_jake]

I would guess the group of level 16 mages all used a fire pet , all sent pets in and didn't cast any aggro causing spells at the mob. Same way we would Duo phiny with 2 mages on blue. with 6 mages the mob would have to cycle between killing all the pets 1 by 1 and eating the pets innate DS with each hit , between 6 of them they would have time to at least cast a new pet when their's died as the mob would have 5 other targets to kill. It's something that you can't put the Genie back in the bottle type of thing that after 20 years people have learned how to min max their powers. I doubt the fire pets landed any of their spells on the mob , but their damage shield is just like it always was , same as any other classes damage shield.

[skorge]

Ok then. As I already said, compile your research and present it in a concise way in a good thread. You can't just randomly point to individual comments from back in the day and ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS in your summary of things while admitting that you don't even know the truth or falsehood of some of the things you're talking about and then be upset when the staff don't bend over backwards to enact the changes you think they should.

The research was compiled by Dolalin over a week ago and made into a bug report already. The devs know about it but nothing has been done or said as of yet.

Default Magician pets should not cast spells until May 1999 patch era (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335869)

Magician pets should not dual wield, or equip weapons before January 2000 patch era (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335906)

Necro pets should not lifetap until January 2000 patch era (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335906)

[Waldo73]

Despite mage pets not having spells, they were still extremely powerful at launch. I was able to kill red Sand Scarabs at level 8, which isn't all that crazy considering yellow pet and DS at that level. The ability to solo high cons lasted until the mid 20s, with pet power falling off considerably with the 29 pets and losing access to all 4 being available at vendor starting at 24.

What was definitely true was the perception that Mage pets sucked at the time. I was asked several times during the first couple months of launch to desummon my pet in groups. A large part of this was the confusion around how pets took xp. Until this was clarified, many people did not want the pets around.

Not sure how it was on other servers, but on Cazic, once enough people went through Highpass Orcs (which was a DPS race with 15-25 people) on during early classic, and saw how powerful Mages were, the word started to get out.

By the time spells were added, it was clear how powerful Mages really were.

Tl;dr: a lot of Mage suckiness at launch was perception vs reality.. even though there were important buffs still to come.

[cd288]

Read this, see actual patch notes from May 1999: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335869

So, no you are wrong...mage pets are OP on P99, not classic! My first character was mage and the pets sucked balls. The pets did not cast up until around 2.5 months in. Pets post level 20 did not exist in-game due to research broke. If research would have been fixed, the only way to get a pet post 20 would have been through research. Keep in mind that research drops were 300% rarer at the time. So most mages who made it past 20 ended up using the level 20 pet until 2.5 months in when it got fixed.

Who cares? Even if they wanted to go through the effort to implement this, it would get you like 8 weeks without a mage group and then these people would just start doing it at that point. It's really not a significant period of time where you'd be without it.

Who cares if people want to make a pre-made with 6 mages and try and race their way to 50? Sounds extremely boring to me and it seems like they're going to miss out on part of what makes a fresh server so great, but if they really want to do that who cares? That's how they enjoy their EverQuest. Doesn't matter to me.

The devs know about it but nothing has been done or said as of yet.

Ok, then with all due respect be quiet. If the devs know about it, then maybe they will make the change you want. If they haven't SAID anything about it yet, then there's nothing to complain about because you don't know for sure that they aren't going to make the change. You're complaining about a decision that hasn't been made yet as far as you know. Although, TBH, if I were a dev after all the ranting you've done on here I would just let pets cast spells from day 1, just to trigger you.

[cd288]

Ok then. As I already said, compile your research and present it in a concise way in a good thread. You can't just randomly point to individual comments from back in the day and ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS in your summary of things while admitting that you don't even know the truth or falsehood of some of the things you're talking about and then be upset when the staff don't bend over backwards to enact the changes you think they should.

Lol /thread

[Jibartik]

Man those guys are going to be so rich when they quit playing green99 in like 4 months. lol

[bum3]

Despite mage pets not having spells, they were still extremely powerful at launch. I was able to kill red Sand Scarabs at level 8, which isn't all that crazy considering yellow pet and DS at that level. The ability to solo high cons lasted until the mid 20s, with pet power falling off considerably with the 29 pets and losing access to all 4 being available at vendor starting at 24.

What was definitely true was the perception that Mage pets sucked at the time. I was asked several times during the first couple months of launch to desummon my pet in groups. A large part of this was the confusion around how pets took xp. Until this was clarified, many people did not want the pets around.

Not sure how it was on other servers, but on Cazic, once enough people went through Highpass Orcs (which was a DPS race with 15-25 people) on during early classic, and saw how powerful Mages were, the word started to get out.

By the time spells were added, it was clear how powerful Mages really were.

Tl;dr: a lot of Mage suckiness at launch was perception vs reality.. even though there were important buffs still to come.

This is how I remember it too. Confirmation bias confirmed. Thanks.

[Jibartik]

So, I am not familiar with the true dif between a necro and a mage, could 6 level 16 necros not accomplish this?

[Tecmos Deception]

So, I am not familiar with the true dif between a necro and a mage, could 6 level 16 necros not accomplish this?

The EE in lguk is over level 30, so even lifetaps from the necros aren't going to stick (with blue's resist code anyway), and their pets lack a damage shield and the necros can't cast a damage shield. So they'd be a lot worse at it than mages would be.

[Tecmos Deception]

The research was compiled by Dolalin over a week ago and made into a bug report already. The devs know about it but nothing has been done or said as of yet.

Default Magician pets should not cast spells until May 1999 patch era (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335869)

Magician pets should not dual wield, or equip weapons before January 2000 patch era (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335906)

Necro pets should not lifetap until January 2000 patch era (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335906)

So, again, like I already said, why THIS thread? If these are the issues you're concerned about, why not bump the bug report or accumulate more evidence or something?

Complaining that 6 pets with awesome damage shields and some melee damage can wear down EE via chain summoning... something that will be just as possible even if the changes you are talking about get put in (level 16 pets will get 99% or more resists with spells against a level 30+ mob anyway, level 16 pets aren't dual wielding even if you try to give them two weapons, necro pets are irrelevant to mages killing EE)... I mean maybe I'm just not seeing your angle here. But I doubt it.

[turbosilk]

You totally miss the point. The point is mage pets are still casting spells. They are not in their true form right now on Green. There has been patch notes provided in the Bugs forum to prove this 100%. Nobody is even saying anything about this! It disgusts me quite frankly. People will rather have a broke launch on Green to get a head start for a few pixels that won't even matter due to the /list function.



It completely baffles me. I feel like I am lone ranger here for wanting the server to emulate how it was on classic launch. Pets were no where near as good as they are here on blue and now green. It's a HUGE deal. It completely changes things and makes things unclassic.

If the launch needs to be delayed, then so be it. It would be well worth it. Heck right now Kunark items are dropping...there are a TON of bugs being reported.

Doesn't matter if earth pets can't cast. You're going to see an army of lowbies *raiding* higher level mobs.

[Jibartik]

The EE in lguk is over level 30, so even lifetaps from the necros aren't going to stick (with blue's resist code anyway), and their pets lack a damage shield and the necros can't cast a damage shield. So they'd be a lot worse at it than mages would be.

Makes sense, thanks!

[turbosilk]

So, again, like I already said, why THIS thread? If these are the issues you're concerned about, why not bump the bug report or accumulate more evidence or something?

Complaining that 6 pets with awesome damage shields and some melee damage can wear down EE via chain summoning... something that will be just as possible even if the changes you are talking about get put in (level 16 pets will get 99% or more resists with spells against a level 30+ mob anyway, level 16 pets aren't dual wielding even if you try to give them two weapons, necro pets are irrelevant to mages killing EE)... I mean maybe I'm just not seeing your angle here. But I doubt it.

6 16 fire pets would get quickly annihilated by the EE. I noticed the OP didn't say they were successful for a reason. Recommend moving to RNF.

[Jibartik]

lol is the story true? I would like to know who it was so I could admire their power.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I would guess the group of level 16 mages all used a fire pet , all sent pets in and didn't cast any aggro causing spells at the mob. Same way we would Duo phiny with 2 mages on blue. with 6 mages the mob would have to cycle between killing all the pets 1 by 1 and eating the pets innate DS with each hit , between 6 of them they would have time to at least cast a new pet when their's died as the mob would have 5 other targets to kill. It's something that you can't put the Genie back in the bottle type of thing that after 20 years people have learned how to min max their powers. I doubt the fire pets landed any of their spells on the mob , but their damage shield is just like it always was , same as any other classes damage shield.

Yup they wouldn't even have to land any melee hits either and DS are unresistable.

[Aaramis]

Except a mob that suicides on a DS doesn't leave a corpse due to it being neutral damage.
They'd need to do at least 1 damage. Somehow.

Also, chain summoning pets at 16 is crazy mana-intensive. Wouldn't be able to keep that up very long.

I'm skeptical.

[turbosilk]

I recommend playing with friends vs solo as groups can kill faster and higher level mobs. Game design is for grouping not solo.

[Fammaden]

Except a mob that suicides on a DS doesn't leave a corpse due to it being neutral damage.
They'd need to do at least 1 damage. Somehow.

Also, chain summoning pets at 16 is crazy mana-intensive. Wouldn't be able to keep that up very long.

I'm skeptical.

I mean there was this post right here in the thread that everyone seems to be ignoring......

As the level 48 mage in the GUK group the OP is talking about, I think he is being a bit over dramatic about everything. The group was 2 mages, a warrior. Shaman, Druid and bard... someone made a thread about some BS they know nothing about and now it’s vlown up...

[bubur]

been playing more beta than a cool and normal person would, but i didn't play today

if 6 lv 16 mages did EE then I missed it, not sure if it happened

but that fatty boi does a pretty big aoe nuke so if it did happen, they got pretty lucky. anyway not that big a deal if they did. good for them

edit: wait a minute i may have even been in the group that the op is talking about? im a lv 48 druid. this is a weird thread. if you wanna be mad about something, i soloed the EE as lv 38 druid (and took a screenshot). EE is like a lv 30 or something wizard with zero adds in camp, and good races can walk right up to it without agroing anything except 2 mobs at liveside entrance that can be pulled away. it's an easy kill and will be surprised if it is not achieved on day 3 at the latest

[skorge]

wait a minute i may have even been in the group that the op is talking about? im a lv 48 druid. this is a weird thread. if you wanna be mad about something, i soloed the EE as lv 38 druid (and took a screenshot). EE is like a lv 30 or something wizard with zero adds in camp, and good races can walk right up to it without agroing anything except 2 mobs at liveside entrance that can be pulled away. it's an easy kill and will be surprised if it is not achieved on day 3 at the latest

No, a friend told me this morning. He said it was 6 level 16 mages. He said they were on Discord. I never said it was confirmed (read my very first post). I said I heard this from someone. It really wouldn't surprise me though is what makes it crazy.

[bubur]

no it wouldnt surprise me either really. but its not that crazy

6 lv 14-16 mobs that can be replaced from afar can kill a lv 30 wizard who is standing still. to me its believable in classic era

though i am pretty sure it didnt happen

[Balimon]

Skorge, I realize you just want things to be classic but do you understand how mages work now? Mage pets chain summoned with damage shields will kill anything. It's the damage shield that is killing the EE. Six necros with DSed pets could do the same pet. Let this go dude.

[Palemoon]

Skorge, I realize you just want things to be classic but do you understand how mages work now? Mage pets chain summoned with damage shields will kill anything. It's the damage shield that is killing the EE. Six necros with DSed pets could do the same pet. Let this go dude.

Chain summon fire pet and let the DS do the work? I remember sometimes long delays after summoning a fire pet before it threw its DS on itself. Sometimes it did it right away, sometimes I had to wait half a minute. That might need looking into too to keep things classic.

[Icannotpost]

True - they don’t immediately cast the DS.

Edit: or at least they shouldn’t be

[Balimon]

No fire pet's don't have enough hit points. Chain earth pets and cast the shield yourself. It's how two mage's can kill Phinny, same concept.

[the_only_jake]

I thought that as well , but the mages own damage shield is much weaker , I thought with 6 of them maybe they could take turns sending pets in and med mana and give their pet a chance after summon to sit there and back it off until it cast its shield then send it in. I was just guessing. but the pets own personal DS is way stronger than anything a player can cast at that level and its mana free . so they have more mana to throw pets at the EE.

[the_only_jake]

the higher level earth pets melee phiny harder and last longer and usually you wanna low man him , you dont chain 6 pets at him. the DS the mage throws would just be a bonus , but if you were just trying to down an extreme red with 6 mages I think the firepets would work better because the pet likely wouldnt hit the mob that much higher with melee anyway.

[Aaramis]

I mean there was this post right here in the thread that everyone seems to be ignoring......

Ahh, hadn't seen that post. Hard to keep up with all this drama.

[yraapt]

As the level 48 mage in the GUK group the OP is talking about, I think he is being a bit over dramatic about everything. The group was 2 mages, a warrior. Shaman, Druid and bard... someone made a thread about some BS they know nothing about and now it’s vlown up...

wait a minute i may have even been in the group that the op is talking about? im a lv 48 druid. this is a weird thread. if you wanna be mad about something, i soloed the EE as lv 38 druid (and took a screenshot). EE is like a lv 30 or something wizard with zero adds in camp, and good races can walk right up to it without agroing anything except 2 mobs at liveside entrance that can be pulled away. it's an easy kill and will be surprised if it is not achieved on day 3 at the latest

[Baler]

And people didn't understand why I was so upset in the thread that called mages horrible in classic.

[Byrjun]

Skorge you've been here awhile, I'm surprised that you're shocked that mages are powerful. Vanilla EQ is like the only time in the game's lifespan when mages are one of the most powerful classes in the game.

In fact, back in the day on P99 if you had the pet focus staff from Phinny, your pet would nuke for like 5x as much damage because the level increase from the focus made the game think that you had a Kunark pet. A single mage pet could out-dps fully geared rogues and monks. Mage pets probably won't be quite that good on Green, but they'll still be great.

Also, serious raiders are going to want CotH bots in Kunark. Half of the playerbase is going to be rolling mages.

[Jadian]

Pretty sure low-level fire pets DO actually diaf (kek) in realistic leveling situations.

You don't have enough context here, with this alone, to make any sound conclusions.

Was this guy using a max-level summon? What level mob was he fighting? Was he grouped or solo, kiting or letting his pet tank fully? Did his pet put up a damage shield before the fight or was it not on yet? All this stuff could easily be true or not, and these things would drastically affect the way a player who doesn't know about them perceives the strength of this pet. Nowadays we know to think about this. The first month or whatever of classic, almost nobody did.

Again, I'm not trying to argue that the pets are too strong or too weak, classic or not. I'm just pointing out that you aren't making a very good case for change, regardless. Accumulate evidence, present it in a thoughtful way without bias or emotion involved, and make a good thread.

You're basically asking a cat to do physics. All this guy can do is sperg and cry about what he wants.

[skorge]

You're basically asking a cat to do physics. All this guy can do is sperg and cry about what he wants.

I only ask devs to resort mages to where they were on classic launch through the end of May '99. A thread on the bug forum has been posted with well documented research.

Mage pets are broke as they stand now on Green. That is a fact. Argue all you want. You can even tell me I'm crying. I don't care. I will keep on posting.

All I want is a classic feature implemented on launch of a classic server.

No, I won't be starting any new threads about mages. But will continue to defend myself on any thread I started about mages, as long as someone attacks me.

[akagami]

I only ask devs to resort mages to where they were on classic launch through the end of May '99. A thread on the bug forum has been posted with well documented research.

Mage pets are broke as they stand now on Green. That is a fact. Argue all you want. You can even tell me I'm crying. I don't care. I will keep on posting.

All I want is a classic feature implemented on launch of a classic server.

No, I won't be starting any new threads about mages. But will continue to defend myself on any thread I started about mages, as long as someone attacks me.

It seems mage pets are not acting exactly as they did on release from the evidence of the patch notes.

But what does "broke" mean? Seems to imply overpowered and/or problematic.

However, several people have tried explaining to you even if it is the case that pets are different from the original patch that is not the reason they are overpowered.

You seem to be ignoring this side of the discussion and it makes your problem with mage pets seem less legitimate/relevant.

So, again, like I already said, why THIS thread? If these are the issues you're concerned about, why not bump the bug report or accumulate more evidence or something?

Complaining that 6 pets with awesome damage shields and some melee damage can wear down EE via chain summoning... something that will be just as possible even if the changes you are talking about get put in (level 16 pets will get 99% or more resists with spells against a level 30+ mob anyway, level 16 pets aren't dual wielding even if you try to give them two weapons, necro pets are irrelevant to mages killing EE)... I mean maybe I'm just not seeing your angle here. But I doubt it.

[Nirgon]

You totally miss the point. The point is mage pets are still casting spells. They are not in their true form right now on Green. There has been patch notes provided in the Bugs forum to prove this 100%. Nobody is even saying anything about this! It disgusts me quite frankly. People will rather have a broke launch on Green to get a head start for a few pixels that won't even matter due to the /list function.

It completely baffles me. I feel like I am lone ranger here for wanting the server to emulate how it was on classic launch. Pets were no where near as good as they are here on blue and now green. It's a HUGE deal. It completely changes things and makes things unclassic.

If the launch needs to be delayed, then so be it. It would be well worth it. Heck right now Kunark items are dropping...there are a TON of bugs being reported.


There's no way the lvl 16 pet spells are landing on the EE? Even still it's a caster mob getting pet spammed.

2 mages can pet spam phinny at 50

Its classic

[Lonedrahon25]

My favorite thing about playing EQ 20 years later, is the fact that people JUST discover things that have been there for the same 20 years. /giggle

[Ferahgo]

@OP

People play the game in different ways. Some will take it slow and casual, some will exploit the most powerful mechanics and content. Play how you want to play. If you want to farm manastones with low level mages, make your own party of mage pals and contest for it. If you don't than oh well, it isn't fair to force people to play your way only.

[Vyal]

Just heard this this morning from a friend. He said it went down on the discord. Can anyone confirm this? If so, this is simply madness and the devs need to fix mages ASAP.

I know beta is 10x exp but all the highest toons are mages. The level of OP in mages currently will ruin the whole entire experience. Sorry to say.

I hope this not true. Would like anyone to chime in if they heard the same or can confirm this?

Remember when I said they would eventually nerf mages and all I heard was "nah they won't do that just because mages level fast in classic"
I'll keep being proven right..

On the plus side it looks like the trojan was removed from the patch so :D

[Enme]

Pretty sure this didn't happen. I killed the first few ee that died on beta with my lvl 35 Mage (at the time) Harms.

[skorge]

Pretty sure this didn't happen. I killed the first few ee that died on beta with my lvl 35 Mage (at the time) Harms.

Lol Harms I spoke to you in-game (Peter on beta). No, you are right, it didn't. Mages are getting no adjustments from Blue, unfortunately.

[Dolalin]

I've made the case for mage pets being research only until May 99 but we'll see what the staff decides.

[zodium]

I've made the case for mage pets being research only until May 99 but we'll see what the staff decides.

i think it is a very good post. I remember most mages being ... not that good in real vanilla? like they were ok. while on green beta every mage is wrecking, and it's not like we came up with new genius plays beyond "summon pet ad nauseum." people did that in vanilla too and it didn't work this good. something is different. this and the original brokenness of research go a long way to explain why.

one can argue the devs "would" have fixed it and thus it should be fixed on green too, but then one can just as well argue mage crews would have been nerfed in response to their insane early power, and only weren't because you couldn't make the pets easily. by the time research was fixed, other classes had geared up to come into their own. but all things considered i'd rather have mages be a little too strong than a little too weak, so I hope it's considered carefully. :3