STR vs STA | BoNuS PtZ?

[Chortles Snort|eS]

mE waS guN +20 STA diS tiEM
den,
mE heArS DPS MoRe NoTiCE +20 STR

WuT ME DO!?

PRaS CT

[Deathrydar]

Yes, you do more dmg with more str. But, being that it is difficult to get gear with +sta on it, and a little easier to get gear with +str on it, it's a difficult decision.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

me AlSo heaR STA diFF baReLy noticE vs STR noTicE! (aka u NotiCE STR!)

wuT is Real TRUE!?

haLP!

[Deathrydar]

me AlSo heaR STA diFF baReLy noticE vs STR noTicE! (aka u NotiCE STR!)

wuT is Real TRUE!?

haLP!

This is true too. Putting the 20 pts into STR goes further than if you put the 20 pts into STA

I don't know the exact formula (someone will post it) but it is considerable enough to take it into consideration. ;)

[Chortles Snort|eS]

me NEED ANsWERS@!!!! PLS!!!

[Deathrydar]

Someone get this troll some answers please!

[Graventhel]

me AlSo heaR STA diFF baReLy noticE vs STR noTicE! (aka u NotiCE STR!)

wuT is Real TRUE!?

haLP!

Starting as a true newb with little gear support, probably str. What class?

[Kanuvan]

+15 str +5 stam, you have become a unkillable and damaging machine of war thanks to this build

[whitebandit]

snortles.. spam more pls

[Chortles Snort|eS]

me real juS wanT kNo what STA # = HP #
mANY thANK!

[Fammaden]

Str to be better now for the leveling game, sta if you want to be your best after the expansions.

[kylok]

As per the wiki - at level 60 an SK would get 1 STA = 5.2 hp. As for STR - copy pasta'd from the wiki

Role of STR

As for str, you will notice more effects at later level. It does increase my max damage when I go from 180 (unbuffed) to about 250 (shaman buff). In the end, my main hand 10/21 has a max damage of about 45, so from the formula:

(2*10)+8 = 28
I have an extra 17 damage, I would think that it is all coming from str bonus at my level? Not sure.

The other effect of str is that it raises your ATK (about 1 ATK for 1 str) and the more ATK you have, the more likely you will get high hits.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

TYVM

[Vivix]

20INT to increase IQ.

[Albane]

This really depends on your plan to min/max which is dependent on your plan to do end game content to max out stats from gear. If you don't plan on having full raid gear in Velious, go for STR.

[Jimjam]

mE waS guN +20 STA diS tiEM
den,
mE heArS DPS MoRe NoTiCE +20 STR

WuT ME DO!?

PRaS CT

Troll sk was my first toon! I think I went all str as i knew it gave the most immediate impact on a fresh account.

http://wiki.project1999.com/index.php?title=Magelo_Blue:Nareik

He has reasonable gear but is far from cap on str or sta.

If he had constant access to 60 shamans willing to double buff str I probably would prefer the stamina, but as it stands i like the extra carry capacity and damage bonus more than an extra 80 hp.

[Ashenden]

The most important thing is to hit the 76 Charisma breakpoint for vendoring, obviously.

[Natewest1987]

me real juS wanT kNo what STA # = HP #
mANY thANK!

me AlSo heaR STA diFF baReLy noticE vs STR noTicE! (aka u NotiCE STR!)

wuT is Real TRUE!?

haLP!

My mother seriously texts like this. All fing day.

[uygi]

20INT to increase IQ.

Seriously, this. At 10x XP my weapon and offense/defense skills are shit... I think I get 2 skillups in each skill per level gained.

That said, once you get to level 50 (then 60) and are working more on gear than XP, the STA is usually harder to make up. As a SK, STA is gold and STR is dime a dozen; the SK sky items are all loaded with STR/DEX and devoid of STA. As an approximately max-geared Kunark ogre SK, I could only max STA by making other sacrifices. If you’re talking about being decked out in ST/NToV gear, then it just doesn’t matter any more.

[Leifer7inches]

Back in 1999-2000 I spent a good deal of time reading the "Paladins of Norrath" boards and after much debate on the topic of strength there started to be some parsing done (some rudimentary tools back then I think) to provide empirical evidence. I wish those threads still existed but I can't find them anymore.

Several different individuals all performed tests with appropriate controls for variables and found that (at least for Paladins) strength had a minuscule effect on damage. It was so small as to become a trivial stat other than to have enough to lug around whatever weight you needed.

Similar parses showed AC to have a significant effect on damage taken. It was (at least back then on live) common knowledge among those who actually tested real data, that Str should never be taken before AC, HP, Stam, or even Agi for tanks.

Things could have changed post Kunark era, or changed here on P99 - but the folks who studied the data back then showed unequivocally that Str (especially for the paladin class) was basically meaningless because it didn't add statistically significant damage. Does anyone know of any empirical data (not anecdotal) to show this is different on P99?

[Throatseeker]

+20 STAM for my Monk!

[Gustoo]

I remember people with brains stacking AC and stamina and then hard HP when possible.

This is a troll thread in every sense of the word but for the fatties I would consider intelligence because its so low that in velious its likely to be the only thing on an ogre not super high.

I'd go 5 agility, and 15 to intelligence.

For a troll I'd go 20 to intelligence

For all other races I would put 20 into stamina.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

STR serveD me WeLL in red
Will do So agan on GreeN SK
Ty

[omgmo]

Paladins aren't meant for DPS, and they don't do much of it. I mained one back then and what I always heard was to stack AC til soft cap then go for HP. Hybrid tanks didn't care about strength regardless of how much it helped their dps, their aggro doesn't come from damage output, it comes from spells (like paladin stuns, or blind at lower levels).

[Leifer7inches]

I found one of the old threads here - https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/paladinsofnorrath/ac-vs-stats-alagarn-t1829.html

The post made by Romidar is generally the summation of the statistical findings at that time:

Romidar Trueblade
Global user
(7/2/00 12:02:17 pm)
24.95.134.174
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: An AC verses stats test
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to have misunderstood Beld.

You claim that you had to zone out FASTER when you had higher AC. Since you zoned and did not kill the guard, this would mean that you are taking more damage with higher AC, not that you are DOING less damage.

Also, several of us have tested stats and their effect on damage & accuracy using logs of fights and found that no statistic influences accuracy (which was later confirmed by Verant) and that strength only slightly influences damage output at high levels.

Some folks on the monk boards tested AC vs. agility and found that agility did not affect dodging OR misses (more than the addition of the same amount of AC granted by that agility increase would). In other words, if 24 agility grants you 4 AC, you'd get the same effect from just adding an item that yields 4 AC.

This stuff has been tested by paladins, monks, shaman, rangers, warriors and shadowknights - independent tests using a wide range of methods. The converging evidence was always the same - stats have only a marginal effect on performance, AC has a significant effect.

The problem is this: prior to all the testing using logs & log parsers, people were doing the things you are doing. You have a pre-conceived hypothesis and you use your perception of how the fight went (e.g., number of bubbles, how fast you had to zone, etc.) to draw your conclusions. When you are using observational data like that you -will- fall prey to the "confirmation bias." Even when using "objective" data, it's a dangerous thing, but when just juding from your experience, it's "deadly."

Let me say that when I started testing, I honestly believed that stats made a difference. I thought I became more accurate when I put on my silver fire emerald rings. I thought I was doing significantly more damage (after all, I was seeing bigger numbers) when I was wearing my strength stuff. When I did start testing, I thought the data had to be wrong. It took several tests with different equipment vs. different mobs before I was willing to present my data (originally it was here and on the deceased eq.stratics paladin forum). A lot of people thought I was crazy, but others started testing too and found the same thing. Then Gordon put his foot in his mouth by admitting to a lot of it (and then saying they wouldn't tell us anymore because it "ruins the mystery").

If you want to wear stats stuff, that's your business - if it makes you happy and you're having fun, that's fine. However, the vast majority of data is against those beliefs. Some folks still really believe that the world is flat and it makes them happy to believe it. *shrug*

[uygi]

Just gonna repeat the warning, SKs have ready access to STR and INT gear aplenty from sky quests that will be on farm status before too terribly long. STA much harder to get, and in sustained fighting SKs will be casting mostly just DC which costs approx zero mana. Also consider that when you stack your resists for a dragon or god fight you’ll lose quite a few hp. Only exception is very late game Velious when you can get it all stacked into every item.