Bard Wurf with AOE nerf?

[Darksinga]

Thoughts if bard is worth considering I’ll be limited to swarming 4 mobs? The King of XP may be far from King in regards to solo XP.

[Tenlaar]

Bards that AoE to high levels are often garbage, they can keep the 4 mob limit for the life of the server for all I care.

ETA: Also, AoEing and swarming are different things.

[Tecmos Deception]

Bards can do a lot more than aoe kite, you know. They're a very strong class even without any aoe at all.

[Darksinga]

I’m referring to strictly solo XP. At 27 I can for sure charm kite. You sound like a bard pissed you off Tenlaar, Lol.

[El-Hefe]

I’m referring to strictly solo XP. At 27 I can for sure charm kite. You sound like a bard pissed you off Tenlaar, Lol.

Bards piss off anyone trying to XP outdoors.

[Tenlaar]

I love bards, have a high level bard on blue, and one of my favorite things in EQ is playing a bard tank for dungeon crawling groups.

What pisses me off are people that want to AoE their way to high level and then join groups I'm in while being garbage players who are mediocre at best when it comes to anything except for AoEing.

[Darksinga]

Lol. I’ve played a bard since 99. How would you plan to hold aggro off any decent DPS Tenlaar?

Not that your insult was directed at me, but it is hilarious calling any bard garbage or mediocre when you are talking about tanking groups as a Bard, especially in classic LOL.

I would rather have the enchanter tank at that point. At least he can stun for aggros!!!

[Tenlaar]

How would you plan to hold aggro off any decent DPS Tenlaar?
I’ve played a bard since 99.

Well this already isn't adding up...

[Darksinga]

My response was sarcasm kind sir. The answer is you can’t hold aggro off any one that isn’t trash, Lol.

Anything you do will not generate you anywhere near the aggro you would need to properly tank.

Anyways, back to the original topic: is AOE still wurf ? I want to say yes it will be

[bthomsen0312]

My response was sarcasm kind sir. The answer is you can’t hold aggro off any one that isn’t trash, Lol.

Anything you do will not generate you anywhere near the aggro you would need to properly tank.

Anyways, back to the original topic: is AOE still wurf ? I want to say yes it will be


Yo what's your name on green so i can know to avoid you and your shitty bardness for not knowing how to hold aggro over everyone

[Evia]

Bard slow song is king aggro grabber I thought? Either way I’ve definitely seen bards tank before and do it well.

[Darksinga]

The lvl 20 song sucks for aggro, 50+ one is solid ! Not classic though and this thread is in Green not Blue.

[Darksinga]

Yo what's your name on green so i can know to avoid you and your shitty bardness for not knowing how to hold aggro over everyone

Darksinga
Darksingax
Darksingaxxx

Undecided which yet. Come on down !

[Baler]

I really don't want a repeat of OT petitions on bards and I'm sure the staff don't either.

[Reecon]

a bard that cant hold aggro until kunark isnt a very good bard, very telling why you want that AoEing number increased

[Wallicker]

Being able to manafree “Quad” whites/yellows/near lvl reds is still great exp, also if you are smart/good you can manipulate pathing with groups of different speed mobs to hit around 8 mobs with those dots! Not to mention snare/fear/charm all manafree before lvl 30. Add to it the best travel speed in the game when their will be a lack of porters will save a massive amount of time which can be converted to more exp. expect good bards to find group invites easily and still be in the upper echelon of solo leveling with mage/ench/necro

[Darksinga]

Being able to manafree “Quad” whites/yellows/near lvl reds is still great exp, also if you are smart/good you can manipulate pathing with groups of different speed mobs to hit around 8 mobs with those dots! Not to mention snare/fear/charm all manafree before lvl 30. Add to it the best travel speed in the game when their will be a lack of porters will save a massive amount of time which can be converted to more exp. expect good bards to find group invites easily and still be in the upper echelon of solo leveling with mage/ench/necro

First good response all thread!

Every one else is apparently a main tank Bard, Lol.

[Indecisive]

First good response all thread!

Every one else is apparently a main tank Bard, Lol.

I think they're responding mostly to this:

Lol. I’ve played a bard since 99. How would you plan to hold aggro off any decent DPS Tenlaar?

Not that your insult was directed at me, but it is hilarious calling any bard garbage or mediocre when you are talking about tanking groups as a Bard, especially in classic LOL.

I would rather have the enchanter tank at that point. At least he can stun for aggros!!!

I don't think anyone is trying to make the point that Bard's are the ideal tanking class. But if you don't know how to hold aggro with twenty years of experience playing the class, then I don't know what to tell you. It's really not very difficult, even on Blue with 10 years of twink gear. Unless the wizard decides to YOLO empty his mana tank, the idea that Bard's couldn't hold aggro on Green if they wanted to is pretty absurd.

[Darksinga]

I don't think anyone is trying to make the point that Bard's are the ideal tanking class. But if you don't know how to hold aggro with twenty years of experience playing the class, then I don't know what to tell you. It's really not very difficult, even on Blue with 10 years of twink gear. Unless the wizard decides to YOLO empty his mana tank, the idea that Bard's couldn't hold aggro on Green if they wanted to is pretty absurd.

#1. Thread was derailed as I was strictly referring to AOE kiting.

#2. Name one bard ability that generates enough threat to hold over any reliable DPS? The "real" aggro ability that every one in this thread is referring to is 50+. Something that won't be on Green until Kunark (years away?)

#3. What kind of group would even get a bard to tank, especially in classic? Sure, if you were in Kunark and beyond and desperate, go for it. A bard may be a plate class, but they are far from a tanking class.

[Wallicker]

Selos consonant strain is lvl 23 and spammed will out aggro anything on green and it snare/slows, plus bard can fear and regen, a bard is an ideal tank for casters/pet classes because you can aggro kite in small circles while pets destroy with no need to ever heal so they can keep max level pets and not waste pet components

[Chaplain]

How does a bard hold agro off anyone? Gee I don't know maybe Mez or Slow? When I am just slowing a MOB I usually pull enough hate to keep agro when I don't want it. Just chain casting slow (no twists) will guarantee agro and I have only played a bard for a month.

[Indecisive]

#2. Name one bard ability that generates enough threat to hold over any reliable DPS? The "real" aggro ability that every one in this thread is referring to is 50+. Something that won't be on Green until Kunark (years away?)

#3. What kind of group would even get a bard to tank, especially in classic? Sure, if you were in Kunark and beyond and desperate, go for it. A bard may be a plate class, but they are far from a tanking class.

Level 20 AoE slow, level 23 slow/snare, even mez works well to keep aggro. 2 - 3 shots of any of them at the beginning of the fight, then keep it in at the end of your twist. But you've been barding for twenty years, so surely you don't need anyone to tell you this?

I tanked quite often while leveling with low-mid tier equipment. I stopped playing him in the mid 30's, but I tanked at least once in every zone I leveled in. From Crushbone, to Unrest, to Mistmoore, to Sol A, to Highkeep. I expect to see many a bard fill that role on Green, likely due to a tank shortage, and Warriors without good threat weapons.

[Albane]

You guys all need to shut up. Bards suck, don't roll one. They can't solo, they can't duo, they can't group, and they can't solo all the way to Nagafen and Vox waiting on a raid in Classic. /s

[Tenlaar]

A bard spamming mez is the best tank for fighting casters too, they're not getting any spells off.

But I mean who during untwinked classic era would want a tank that can reliably lull, pull with situational mega resist buffs, mez adds, charm DPS, and 35% slow while bringing the best HP regen in the game along with having the most mana regen in the game for downtime, amirite?

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Mez/Slow even at lv 23 (which im at) utterly aggros. On green i cant see how without a proc weapon or something a tank could reliably take it back withouit the bard quitting it and stopping attacking.

I guess if someone rooted the mob and the bard stood well back?

Dunno, im just a newb bard anyway.

[aaezil]

Dark either really clueless about bard songs or really bad troll

[FishBait01]

One of the highest 4 characters on beta is a bard

[Legidias]

Aggro a mob / run around with it and have DPS kill it. Will be the most efficient way of levelling in classic given no gear.

[Tenlaar]

So, fun fact: I was messing around yesterday and my bard was able to hold agro over an equal level monk decently well just by using dissonance. Once I hit 12 and got bellow, I could hold agro 100% over the monk with a twist of dissonance/bellow x2/hymn, both while meleeing and while using a lute.

[astuce999]

Dark either really clueless about bard songs or really bad troll

Not sure if he deserves it, but in his 'defense', if he matured as a bard only after Luclin came out, there was a massive nerf to bard aggro because of AE songs at the time, and any bard leveling after that era rightly believes bards have an incredibly hard time holding aggro.

Astuce

[Albane]

Aggro a mob / run around with it and have DPS kill it. Will be the most efficient way of levelling in classic given no gear.

It will also be way more fun than the normal infinite circle kite.

[cd288]

#1. Thread was derailed as I was strictly referring to AOE kiting.

#2. Name one bard ability that generates enough threat to hold over any reliable DPS? The "real" aggro ability that every one in this thread is referring to is 50+. Something that won't be on Green until Kunark (years away?)

#3. What kind of group would even get a bard to tank, especially in classic? Sure, if you were in Kunark and beyond and desperate, go for it. A bard may be a plate class, but they are far from a tanking class.

Well this comment didn't age well

[Darksinga]

Not sure if he deserves it, but in his 'defense', if he matured as a bard only after Luclin came out, there was a massive nerf to bard aggro because of AE songs at the time, and any bard leveling after that era rightly believes bards have an incredibly hard time holding aggro.

Astuce

Pretty much spot on. I played in the trilogy while I was very young and didn’t get into the game fully as a Bard until a few expansions in. I haven’t played on P99 blue, just Red and many other servers and live, where keeping aggro as a bard was near impossible.

Still surprised to see many people that want bards to tank with their incredibly low STA and other melee stats.

One thing that didn’t change was how squishy bards were. Yes, we wear plate, but our melee stats are fairly low. I feel like people are bard tanking with fungis on Blue and translate that to wanting to MT on Green.

[Tenlaar]

I feel like you started off claiming that you knew I was wrong because you've been playing a bard since 99, now you're saying you didn't really get into playing a bard until after Luclin, so maybe you should stop assuming that you know more than people who have been playing bards for years on blue who are telling you that bards can be good tanks for group content, especially throughout classic and Kunark?

[Darksinga]

I feel like you started off claiming that you knew I was wrong because you've been playing a bard since 99, now you're saying you didn't really get into playing a bard until after Luclin, so maybe you should stop assuming that you know more than people who have been playing bards for years on blue who are telling you that bards can be good tanks for group content, especially throughout classic and Kunark?

If you look back at page 1, you were on my nuts when this entire thread was about AOE kiting.

I did play a Bard since 99, but was young. Will gladly duel you on Green to test your pvp skills though !

[Tenlaar]

What do pvp skills have to do with you being wrong about bards ability to hold agro and tank in classic era?

This thread is about whether bards are worth playing with the 4 mob cap. Of course they are, because they are amazing utility and can be great group tanks.

You maybe shouldn't play a bard though.

[Ahris]

Thoughts if bard is worth considering I’ll be limited to swarming 4 mobs? The King of XP may be far from King in regards to solo XP.

So noone actually answered your question. :)
In classic Bards were the ultimate group booster but very weak solo, you can quad kite but it's not worth the effort.

Judging from the other posts in this thread we will have a great deal of bards ragequitting, deleting the character änd rolling druids instead when green goes live. ;)

[Indecisive]

Pretty much spot on. I played in the trilogy while I was very young and didn’t get into the game fully as a Bard until a few expansions in. I haven’t played on P99 blue, just Red and many other servers and live, where keeping aggro as a bard was near impossible.

Still surprised to see many people that want bards to tank with their incredibly low STA and other melee stats.

One thing that didn’t change was how squishy bards were. Yes, we wear plate, but our melee stats are fairly low. I feel like people are bard tanking with fungis on Blue and translate that to wanting to MT on Green.

Bard defensive skills keep up with tank classes in Classic, and they also get some of the highest returns on stamina gear. The biggest threat to tanks in this era are casters, especially ones with wizard nukes, not the garden variety melee mobs. You could probably group tank all the way to 50 in banded armor without much difficulty in Classic.

If you don't know what you're talking about, it's probably best not to debate people about it in a public forum. Stop being so prideful, realize you're wrong, and try to learn.

[Legidias]

Even besides AE kiting, bard charm kiting is the most efficient out of any charms, in any era. Up to 20 ish, most melees will be doing similar damage due to lack of gearing. If anything, a bard meleeing + singing dmg song (maybe swapping out instrument on pulse) would outdamage normal melee at lower levels.

With 0 gear, bard also has the best sustain as they gear regen song so early.

So, even just solo, they would fare way better than basically all the other melee classes at lower levels. Once you get to 20's, just look forward to mana free charming to 50.


(Also, I tank HoT and planar stuff fine on bard, holding aggro ez pz from time 0. Did tank Vindi once from about 30% to dead. Still need bladestoppers cause I want to do VS.)

[Darksinga]

Bard defensive skills keep up with tank classes in Classic, and they also get some of the highest returns on stamina gear. The biggest threat to tanks in this era are casters, especially ones with wizard nukes, not the garden variety melee mobs. You could probably group tank all the way to 50 in banded armor without much difficulty in Classic.

If you don't know what you're talking about, it's probably best not to debate people about it in a public forum. Stop being so prideful, realize you're wrong, and try to learn.

Being so prideful? Lol. I never stated I knew everything about the Bard class. The creation of this thread in even asking the original question is evidence of this.

If you look at page one, Tenlaar was on my nuts the second I asked about AOE kiting, stating "Bards who AOE kite to max level are typically garbage."

Throughout the thread he's stated things such as "You shouldn't play a Bard," and other snippets of being a douchebag.

I'll be looking forward to seeing how many bards are tanking Lower Guk, Sol B Fire Giants, Efreeti, and other camps once Green goes live.

[Darksinga]

Even besides AE kiting, bard charm kiting is the most efficient out of any charms, in any era. Up to 20 ish, most melees will be doing similar damage due to lack of gearing. If anything, a bard meleeing + singing dmg song (maybe swapping out instrument on pulse) would outdamage normal melee at lower levels.

With 0 gear, bard also has the best sustain as they gear regen song so early.

So, even just solo, they would fare way better than basically all the other melee classes at lower levels. Once you get to 20's, just look forward to mana free charming to 50.


(Also, I tank HoT and planar stuff fine on bard, holding aggro ez pz from time 0. Did tank Vindi once from about 30% to dead. Still need bladestoppers cause I want to do VS.)

Very nice! This is with Velious raid gear or when could you efficiently tank planar?

[Tenlaar]

You started off asking if bards are still worth playing because you can't AoE down huge packs and be "the king of solo xp." You then responded to being told that bards can be great group tanks in classic content by scoffing at the idea, acting like the people who said it don't know what they're talking about, and saying that you'd rather have an enchanter tanking because at least they can stun.

You have shown a lack of knowledge about what bards can do in classic eras and you have shown a willful ignorance with the way that you responded to people calling you out for it.

[Darksinga]

You started off asking if bards are still worth playing because you can't AoE down huge packs and be "the king of solo xp." You then responded to being told that bards can be great group tanks in classic content by scoffing at the idea, acting like the people who said it don't know what they're talking about, and saying that you'd rather have an enchanter tanking because at least they can stun.

You have shown a lack of knowledge about what bards can do in classic eras and you have shown a willful ignorance with the way that you responded to people calling you out for it.

First semi-non-angry post of the thread. Congratulations, Tenlaar!

[Indecisive]

Being so prideful? Lol. I never stated I knew everything about the Bard class.

No, you just tried to insinuate that you were some kind of authority on the topic by referencing how you’d been playing one “since 99“. Then decided to get into an argument with anyone that tried to correct you about aggro and bard tanking capabilities. Here’s a refresher:

Lol. I’ve played a bard since 99. How would you plan to hold aggro off any decent DPS Tenlaar?

Not that your insult was directed at me, but it is hilarious calling any bard garbage or mediocre when you are talking about tanking groups as a Bard, especially in classic LOL.

I would rather have the enchanter tank at that point. At least he can stun for aggros!!!

My response was sarcasm kind sir. The answer is you can’t hold aggro off any one that isn’t trash, Lol.

Anything you do will not generate you anywhere near the aggro you would need to properly tank.

The lvl 20 song sucks for aggro

#2. Name one bard ability that generates enough threat to hold over any reliable DPS? The "real" aggro ability that every one in this thread is referring to is 50+. Something that won't be on Green until Kunark (years away?)

#3. What kind of group would even get a bard to tank, especially in classic? Sure, if you were in Kunark and beyond and desperate, go for it. A bard may be a plate class, but they are far from a tanking class.

One thing that didn’t change was how squishy bards were. Yes, we wear plate, but our melee stats are fairly low. I feel like people are bard tanking with fungis on Blue and translate that to wanting to MT on Green.

This is pride. No matter how many people (that have been playing on the PvE server, by the way, something you admit you haven't done) are telling you you're wrong, you refuse to not only admit that you might be wrong, but continue to double down. You don't know what you're talking about, and continue to argue with people that do.

I really hope you take a moment to self-reflect and change your approach. Because what you're saying is so demonstrably false, it's asinine to continue to try and argue about it.

[Tenlaar]

And not your first refusal to acknowledge that you're wrong about bard capabilities and you were wrong to react the way that you did to people telling you as much.

Still sticking by your statement that you'd rather have an enchanter tanking for a group?

[Darksinga]

.

TLDR

[Legidias]

Very nice! This is with Velious raid gear or when could you efficiently tank planar?

I could tank Seb / KC pretty easily in crusty. Mobs die pretty fast and come in pre-slowed since you use that song to aggro, which is another benefit over a traditional tank needing to generate aggro before shaman / ench slow. Once I got some thurg stuff (which I really dont qualify as raid gear) you can tank most non-raid mobs including HoT and planar. You just get better after that with raid gear.

Vindi specifically is great since bards are honestly the best enrage tankers. Max aggro with full confidence vindi wont turn around without any sort of white damage / procs that warriors rely on.

[Indecisive]

TLDR

I wouldn't read it if I knew I was wrong, either. Why educate yourself, amirite?

[Tenlaar]

I could tank Seb / KC pretty easily in crusty. Mobs die pretty fast and come in pre-slowed since you use that song to aggro, which is another benefit over a traditional tank needing to generate aggro before shaman / ench slow. Once I got some thurg stuff (which I really dont qualify as raid gear) you can tank most non-raid mobs including HoT and planar. You just get better after that with raid gear.

I started tanking Seb and The Hole on my bard at 54 during Kunark with honestly pretty crap gear. A few nice pieces, mostly mediocre Kunark gear with a focus on AC and sta/hp. So many people underestimate how well bards can tank because a lot of it doesn't come through raw damage mitigation like with warrior/knights.

[kotton05]

I really don't want a repeat of OT petitions on bards and I'm sure the staff don't either.

But that’s classic isn’t that what we’re about

[Darksinga]

I started tanking Seb and The Hole on my bard at 54 during Kunark with honestly pretty crap gear. A few nice pieces, mostly mediocre Kunark gear with a focus on AC and sta/hp. So many people underestimate how well bards can tank because a lot of it doesn't come through raw damage mitigation like with warrior/knights.

Good to know! May have to bring out the shield come launch and play Bard a way I've never done before.