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DMN
10-11-2019, 08:59 AM
I've been trying to track down the exact date it was added.

Best I've seen so far is:


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/clarity$201999%7Csort:date/alt.games.everquest/lLO0lMgcDZM/lDn4QN7hyEcJ


About 3 months after release.


"From: "J.M. Capozzi" <cro...@gte.net>
The mana using song (And that's the one I refered to a while back) was
planned on being an AOE Direct Damage song, doing 400 damage to up to four
targets.
The catch was, it used almost all the mana a typical bard of that level
(42+) would have. Since bards don't get meditate, even with Clarity it
would take a long while before the bard was able to sing that song again.
Essentially, it's not a song, it's a spell, in the conventional sense.
Why this restriction? Bards are not meant to be nukers. This is a last
ditch, use it when the chips are down, make or break, type of song. At that
level range, 400 damage isn't a whole lot, any caster worth his salt can do
that with a quarter bar of mana. This is a way to give a bard some higher
level punch, without drastically changing the face of the class."

magusfire24
10-11-2019, 09:02 AM
At least they get breeze at 16

DMN
10-11-2019, 09:02 AM
At least they get breeze at 16

Not till kunark.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 09:03 AM
I have a better source for this in the EQ-Enchanters mailing list, give me a few.

Edit: Actually it kind of sucks. Bleh. I will let you know if I find anything.

Edit2: May 5th 1999 spell listing on EQLizer does not have Clarity:

http://web.archive.org/web/19990508202736/http://gameznet.com/eq/spells/enchanter.html

Baler
10-11-2019, 09:18 AM
https://i.imgur.com/qYCHO5i.gif

Cen
10-11-2019, 11:44 AM
Doesnt clarity start at day 1 release but is not a beta spell? Breeze comes with Kunark.

kylok
10-11-2019, 11:55 AM
I recall reading somewhere that clarity was added something like 3-6 months in

uygi
10-11-2019, 11:56 AM
Clarity definitely not in at release.

cd288
10-11-2019, 12:02 PM
I've been trying to track down the exact date it was added.

Best I've seen so far is:


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/clarity$201999%7Csort:date/alt.games.everquest/lLO0lMgcDZM/lDn4QN7hyEcJ


About 3 months after release.


"From: "J.M. Capozzi" <cro...@gte.net>
The mana using song (And that's the one I refered to a while back) was
planned on being an AOE Direct Damage song, doing 400 damage to up to four
targets.
The catch was, it used almost all the mana a typical bard of that level
(42+) would have. Since bards don't get meditate, even with Clarity it
would take a long while before the bard was able to sing that song again.
Essentially, it's not a song, it's a spell, in the conventional sense.
Why this restriction? Bards are not meant to be nukers. This is a last
ditch, use it when the chips are down, make or break, type of song. At that
level range, 400 damage isn't a whole lot, any caster worth his salt can do
that with a quarter bar of mana. This is a way to give a bard some higher
level punch, without drastically changing the face of the class."

Where in that resource do you see that Clarity wasn't in until X months after release? The only reference to Clarity in the messages is that once instance above where they say even with Clarity it would take a long time for a Bard to get its mana back because they don't have meditate. Nothing in there that I can see that talks about when Clarity was or wasn't in the game.

cd288
10-11-2019, 12:04 PM
I have a better source for this in the EQ-Enchanters mailing list, give me a few.

Edit: Actually it kind of sucks. Bleh. I will let you know if I find anything.

Edit2: May 5th 1999 spell listing on EQLizer does not have Clarity:

http://web.archive.org/web/19990508202736/http://gameznet.com/eq/spells/enchanter.html

I don't know if that's sufficient enough evidence. A site made by a person could be incomplete. For example, they seem to be missing the level 4 Enchanter pet spell, and to my knowledge that was in from day 1. I think you'd need an actual patch notes saying that they are adding a new spell called Clarity.

Edit: Also found this on the Clarity page from Allakhazam: "There are no days before Clarity. Clarity is a lvl 29 enchanter spell and has been in the game since launch. Maybe you are thinking about Clarity 2, which was added with the Kunark expansion?"

DMN
10-11-2019, 12:08 PM
I don't know if that's sufficient enough evidence. A site made by a person could be incomplete. For example, they seem to be missing the level 4 Enchanter pet spell, and to my knowledge that was in from day 1. I think you'd need an actual patch notes saying that they are adding a new spell called Clarity.

Now that you mention it. I seem to recall enchanters having some serious problems finding their pets. Though it might just have been not many people knew they were all in Highhold, it's possible they did have missing pets.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 12:24 PM
This guy dumped the spdat.eff on 5/20/99 and it did not have Clarity in it:


5/20/99

Just for fun (boy, I must have been bored!) I went thru the spdat.eff file,
and cleaned out everything but the spell names themselves. Here's the full
(current) list of spells, and spell effects, like animal poisons, rabies, GM
special spells, Guide spells, etc.


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/83V5UDQYVeM/_TlZwHwFjh4J

Then this guy mentions clarity on 6/4/99, so it must have been added in a patch between these two dates:


6/4/99

...

5) Enchanters are great. Clarity Rocks. Some fun spells too, I love em.


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/trPNw8PP_nI/IPW-lS221d0J

DMN
10-11-2019, 12:33 PM
looking like it was the may 24 patch. Seems the right time frame and that patch had a ton of spell updates/changes.

That eqlizer site didn't update the enchanter animations until late 2000 for some reason.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 12:42 PM
There are tons of missing patch messages. There could have been another patch in between those dates that we don't have. I added a bunch more today but they are hard to find.

The biggest problem is that www.eqvault.net / www.eqvault.com have incomplete archives. I think www.eqvault.com had a strict robots.txt for 9 months and excluded web archiving entirely. :(

sciception
10-11-2019, 12:44 PM
What about Bards?
NM it is in

Ferahgo
10-11-2019, 12:46 PM
We really need to get our hands on a time machine.

cd288
10-11-2019, 12:49 PM
This guy dumped the spdat.eff on 5/20/99 and it did not have Clarity in it:



https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/83V5UDQYVeM/_TlZwHwFjh4J

Then this guy mentions clarity on 6/4/99, so it must have been added in a patch between these two dates:



https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/trPNw8PP_nI/IPW-lS221d0J

I definitely remember having Clarity before May 20, 1999. Whether it was added before then or in on day 1, I can't personally confirm since it of course took me a little bit to hit 29 (there's also that other comment on Allakhazam that says it was in from day 1). I don't think one person's spell dump is really that relevant...who knows if they accidentally deleted Clarity from their list while clearing out the extra stuff in the spell file etc. etc. etc. Plus you have the Bard level 32 Clarity song in there, so Clarity was clearly a concept at the time.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 12:50 PM
Got it. They're talking about Clarity here with this, there's nothing else this spell could be:


5/25/99

One REALLY positive thing I read about (also undocumented) is the
addition of a spell for level 30+ Enchanters, that is a group spell
that increases the mana recharge rate by 50%. This, if its true fixes
a big hole in the Enchanters toolbelt since most of our group oriented
spells are aimed at improving tanks, as opposed to helping casters.
Still just rumors at this stage but I am definitely more positive now
then I was this weekend.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/enchanter$20spells|sort:date/alt.games.everquest/h0tXRLfPQKE/4cq1-QqW6hEJ

Looking like that May 24 patch is the one.

cd288
10-11-2019, 12:57 PM
Got it. They're talking about Clarity here with this, there's nothing else this spell could be:



https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/enchanter$20spells|sort:date/alt.games.everquest/h0tXRLfPQKE/4cq1-QqW6hEJ

Looking like that May 24 patch is the one.

I don't think that's Clarity at all. Clarity is a level 29 spell not a 30+ spell. It also doesn't increase it by 50%. You're extrapolating random internet comments from 20 years ago. Unless it says something like "hey how excited are you guys that Clarity was added in this patch!?" then it's not proof of anything.

DMN
10-11-2019, 01:05 PM
I don't think that's Clarity at all. Clarity is a level 29 spell not a 30+ spell. It also doesn't increase it by 50%. You're extrapolating random internet comments from 20 years ago. Unless it says something like "hey how excited are you guys that Clarity was added in this patch!?" then it's not proof of anything.

It will if you cast it on a low level character via a higher level enchanter.

29 versus 30 is certainly hair splitting.

Foggen
10-11-2019, 01:06 PM
A little digging on the wayback machine. Note this page is from March 2000, the comments however are not dated.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000302102436/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/enchanter/spelldescriptions.asp?SpellID=103

Everyones BEST friend - Teardeel
Well it was bound to happen to enchanters ... wizards get "ummm can you portal me to Karana?" Clerics get "ahhh can you ressurect my friend?" druids get "errr can you cast SoW on me?" ... and now its our turn : "CAN ANYONE CAST CLARITY??" then the the /tell: "hi, can you cast clarity on me?" Well it took 29 levels, but finally we are as harassed as the rest of them :) Clarity is indespensible for...

https://web.archive.org/web/20000609194503/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/enchanter/spelldescriptions.asp?SpellID=103&Page=2

Now they know - Ralyn Silmarils
For the last 3000 game years, people have wondered the importance of an Enchanter. Now we are going to give it to them. At lvl 29, I never stopped receiving tells as soon as I did my first and only /auction Casting clarity!. People...

uygi
10-11-2019, 01:07 PM
I don't think that's Clarity at all. Clarity is a level 29 spell not a 30+ spell. It also doesn't increase it by 50%. You're extrapolating random internet comments from 20 years ago. Unless it says something like "hey how excited are you guys that Clarity was added in this patch!?" then it's not proof of anything.

That user, like most people at the time, didn’t really understand the mechanics of the game. Clarity was mana magic that every caster wanted. They didn’t need to know the mana/tick, they just knew they wanted it.

You sound like you desperately want clarity and are looking for any possible evidence that could be construed that way. Take an objective approach and it’ll look different.

cd288
10-11-2019, 01:08 PM
It will if you cast it on a low level character via a higher level enchanter.

29 versus 30 is certainly hair splitting.

Except it's not hair splitting when we are talking about making changes to a game and the staff have asked for actual proof of things in order to justify a change. If internet comments from the classic era from random players are the standard of proof, then the only comment we have so far that is actually directly about Clarity is the one from Allakhazam where a player a couple years after release says that Clarity was in one day 1.

cd288
10-11-2019, 01:13 PM
That user, like most people at the time, didn’t really understand the mechanics of the game. Clarity was mana magic that every caster wanted. They didn’t need to know the mana/tick, they just knew they wanted it.

You sound like you desperately want clarity and are looking for any possible evidence that could be construed that way. Take an objective approach and it’ll look different.

Except I am taking an objective approach. If internet comments are what we are using as evidence, we have one internet comment from back in the day saying Clarity was in the game from day 1 at level 29, and then we have a vague internet comment talking about a potential level 30+ Enchanter spell to help with further mana regen (and also doesn't say that there isn't such a spell already in existence). Sounds like we should go with the one that expressly talks about Clarity, what level spell it is, and when it was in the game (if we're taking an objective approach).

The latter comment could easily be talking about another 30+ more powerful mana regen spell for Enchanters that they ended up not deciding to add and instead added in Kunark (C2); especially since C1 is not a level 30+ spell.

DMN
10-11-2019, 01:26 PM
Except I am taking an objective approach. If internet comments are what we are using as evidence, we have one internet comment from back in the day saying Clarity was in the game from day 1 at level 29, and then we have a vague internet comment talking about a potential level 30+ Enchanter spell to help with further mana regen (and also doesn't say that there isn't such a spell already in existence). Sounds like we should go with the one that expressly talks about Clarity, what level spell it is, and when it was in the game (if we're taking an objective approach).

The latter comment could easily be talking about another 30+ more powerful mana regen spell for Enchanters that they ended up not deciding to add and instead added in Kunark (C2); especially since C1 is not a level 30+ spell.

Oh really?

"it . . . fixes a big hole in the Enchanters toolbelt since most of our group oriented
spells are aimed at improving tanks, as opposed to helping casters."

Gustoo
10-11-2019, 01:29 PM
Here is the issue, "patch notes" as we know them really didn't get going until much later in the game. In another thread someone posted a huge summary of patch notes that an O.G. dev posted when describing how they were going to note with some detail the changes that were implemented with patches. Originally it was just like...the nature of norrath changed and its up to you to find out in all the magicalness of it.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 01:45 PM
Except I am taking an objective approach. If internet comments are what we are using as evidence, we have one internet comment from back in the day saying Clarity was in the game from day 1 at level 29, and then we have a vague internet comment talking about a potential level 30+ Enchanter spell to help with further mana regen (and also doesn't say that there isn't such a spell already in existence).

That's not the extent of the evidence so far.

1) We have the EQLizer spell page from early May 1999 which doesn't have Clarity listed.

2) We have an spdat.eff dump from about May 20th 1999 that doesn't have Clarity in it

3) We have a complete vacuum of any posts referencing Clarity that were authored before early June 1999

4) Right after a big Enchanter patch we have a comment about a group Mana regen spell being added

One coincidence I would agree with you on. Four separate ones is really starting to push it. :D

cd288
10-11-2019, 02:14 PM
That's not the extent of the evidence so far.

1) We have the EQLizer spell page from early May 1999 which doesn't have Clarity listed.

2) We have an spdat.eff dump from about May 20th 1999 that doesn't have Clarity in it

3) We have a complete vacuum of any posts referencing Clarity that were authored before early June 1999

4) Right after a big Enchanter patch we have a comment about a group Mana regen spell being added

One coincidence I would agree with you on. Four separate ones is really starting to push it. :D

1. Except that page is also missing Enchanter spells that were definitely in the game at launch, so it's clearly not complete.

2. What you have is someone's manual effort to delete things from the parse. Maybe it's accurate, maybe they messed up. We don't know. The dump also includes a Clarity Bard song, so clearly the concept of Clarity existed at the time.

3. What you have a vacuum of is any posts referencing Clarity being added. If Clarity didn't exist at launch, you think you'd have posts talking about Clarity being added. Instead, the only comment we have from years and years ago directly referencing Clarity says that it's a level 29 spell that was in the game at launch.

4. What you have is a comment that, at the end of said comment, actually says it's talking about rumors and is discussing a 30+ Enchanter spell. Again, Clarity is not a 30+ Enchanter spell. Maybe this could still be about Clarity, but it's equally likely that (since they are discussing "rumors" they have heard) that it's about another level of mana regeneration in a 30+ spell which never ended up being added.

All of that said, the things you mention certainly raise the question of/warrant looking into whether Clarity was in the game at launch. However, none of those things (taken together or standing alone) are proof that it wasn't.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 02:19 PM
I fully plan to dig more on this because I'm actually surprised Clarity is not mentioned in any of my mailing list archives until quite late.

That's any mention of Clarity at all. Not even of it being added, of it even existing. It's just weird.

Oh I forgot to mention #5: Brad's post about them adding Clarity and Insight.

cd288, can you give me an example of an Enchanter spell that should definitely be on the EQLizer list but isn't? I want to try something.

bum3
10-11-2019, 02:37 PM
We know that clarity existed on Hate release with the rod. It would be safe to assume it existed as a spell prior?

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 02:55 PM
PoH was released very late in 99.

Videri
10-11-2019, 04:17 PM
The mana using song (And that's the one I refered to a while back) was planned on being an AOE Direct Damage song, doing 400 damage to up to four
targets.

They meant “the mana-using song” with a hyphen and they’re talking about Denon’s Desperate Dirge (http://wiki.project1999.com/Denon%27s_Desperate_Dirge), a level 43 bard nuke that takes 800 mana.

Did you quote the wrong text? This isn’t about Clarity at all.

DMN
10-11-2019, 05:17 PM
They meant “the mana-using song” with a hyphen and they’re talking about Denon’s Desperate Dirge (http://wiki.project1999.com/Denon%27s_Desperate_Dirge), a level 43 bard nuke that takes 800 mana.

Did you quote the wrong text? This isn’t about Clarity at all.

"even with Clarity it would take a long while before the bard was able to sing that song again."

Videri
10-11-2019, 05:20 PM
"even with Clarity it would take a long while before the bard was able to sing that song again."

It doesn't state or imply that Clarity is a new or exotic thing. Am I missing it?

Edit: Oh, I see that you're beginning with the assumption that Clarity wasn't in at start and this is evidence that shows the latest point at which it could have been added. I myself haven't seen evidence that it wasn't in at launch, though.

DMN
10-11-2019, 05:32 PM
It doesn't state or imply that Clarity is a new or exotic thing. Am I missing it?

Edit: Oh, I see that you're beginning with the assumption that Clarity wasn't in at start and this is evidence that shows the latest point at which it could have been added. I myself haven't seen evidence that it wasn't in at launch, though.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2977835&postcount=10

You can see my post on this page here, which explicitly shows it wasn't in at launch.

uygi
10-11-2019, 05:33 PM
"even with Clarity it would take a long while before the bard was able to sing that song again."
Did Clarity ever work for bards? I never played a bard but I thought they could only get extra mana from FT

Videri
10-11-2019, 05:40 PM
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2977835&postcount=10

You can see my post on this page here, which explicitly shows it wasn't in at launch.

Wow! So I guess the only question is whether devs will follow the timeline in that way.

DMN
10-11-2019, 05:44 PM
Did Clarity ever work for bards? I never played a bard but I thought they could only get extra mana from FT

June 7, 1999

No spell or effect that accelerates the process of mana regeneration will work on a Bard.

uygi
10-12-2019, 02:08 AM
June 7, 1999

No spell or effect that accelerates the process of mana regeneration will work on a Bard.
...so basically when they added Clarity they made an exception for bard. Got it.

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 02:18 AM
Before end of May, people on the eqbards list talk about "singing [Cassindra's Chant of] Clarity", but afterwards they always say "singing Cassindra's" or "singing mana song". It's a noticeable difference.

Varlos
10-12-2019, 02:48 AM
This whole thread is just people wanting classic re-balanced so Enchanters aren't so dominant.

Enchanters had Clarity Day 1 of release.

Note: I started playing in Kunark and I'm playing Enchanter.

sciception
10-12-2019, 02:53 AM
Just throwing this out there.People used to think the Brilliance line gave additional mana regen. I think that Gift of Magic was the one. I clearly remember having conversations about how it stacked with Clarity as I stared at my Cleric book in HHK.

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 03:12 AM
1) Gordon/Brad's list of improvements include: "Added Clarity and Insight".

2) EQLizer spell list has Brilliance, but no Insight or Clarity.

3) spdat.eff dump has Brilliance, but no Insight or Clarity

In my view this is a smoking gun.

Videri
10-12-2019, 03:13 AM
If there is no Clarity for 3 months, that's alright, folks. Don't worry. We'll get through those first 3 months without Clarity. It will just slow us down a little and let us enjoy the Classicness more. :)

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 03:56 AM
To add a bit more circumstantial evidence.

The first reference to the spell Clarity on the eqenchanters list is this message at the end of June. There are no references before that date. It is the 1,446th message on the list.

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/eqenchanters/messages/1446


[Next Message in Time] | [Previous Message in Time] | [Next Message in Topic] | [Previous Message in Topic]

Message ID: 1446
Date: Mon Jun 28 23:32:34 BST 1999
Author: Ric R
Subject: Re: mesmerization


Mesmerization is AE (Area Effect), it will effect all around your target.
The message is <target> has been mesmerized for each that are hit by this.
From what I can see, this spell is broken, all the messages are in place,
but it has no effect what so ever on anything. I play Rellos Zek, so it
might just be a problem on that server.

Here's a little tid for all or most of you to look forward to. Clarity is
AWESOME! It's a level 29 spell and increases mana regen on the target.
You'll become everyone's best friend with this one. At level 34, you can
get the research only spell Mana Sieve. This one is everything against a
caster. It will totally train the mana from a level 39 wizard, that's
roughly 1100 mana. Also, while under the effect of mana sieve, the target
cannot med. I believe the effect's last 2 to 5 minutes. A perfect spell for
PvP, and even more powerful against NPC casters.


Telan Ka`Rlaah





At 10:09 AM 6/28/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: jcent@...
>
>
>AoE? Does that mean it will only effect those around me (regardless of who
>I have targeted)?
>And what text message do you see when it works?
>
>Fistlebane
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>Attention ONElist list owners.
>http://www.onelist.com
>We've just added a "NO ATTACHMENTS" option. See homepage for details.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


However there are references to other higher level spells before that. The first mention of Brilliance was at the end of April, 1999:

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/eqenchanters/messages/499


[Next Message in Time] | [Previous Message in Time] | [Next Message in Topic] | [Previous Message in Topic]

Message ID: 499
Date: Wed Apr 28 21:58:43 BST 1999
Author: Proteus Proteus
Subject: Enchanter Research....not always necessary..


Many of our "research" spells can be found by carefully looking at
other vendors. Eg: Disempower, Levitate, and (I believe) beserker
strength can be found at the Shaman Vendors. There are some others
that are found at Cleric vendors (soothe/calm) for one. Basically,
look at the spell lists, and cross-reference. Some spells are only
found at specific vendors in certain cities (erudin has
illusion:halfling, neriak has the metal enchantment, Freeport has
Brilliance (a lvl 44 spell BTW), etc...etc..). I believe
mesmerization is a research only spell, and have yet to find
Pillage....
Proteus


>From: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>Reply-To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Digest Number 20
>Date: 27 Apr 1999 11:55:12 -0000
>
>
>Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately?
>http://www.ONElist.com
>ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and community service on the
Internet!
>
>There are 20 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. Re: Financial Aid
> From: Eain Bankins <eain@...>
> 2. Re: New Survey
> From: Wanderer CommonWealth <wanderercw@...>
> 3. Re: New Survey
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
> 4. Alliance I know what it does :-)
> From: Wanderer CommonWealth <wanderercw@...>
> 5. Re: Alliance I know what it does :-)
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
> 6. Re: ILLUSION QUESTIONS
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
> 7. Re: ILLUSION QUESTIONS
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
> 8. Re: Umm... Hello?
> From: WeinisFROG@...
> 9. Re: ILLUSION QUESTIONS
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
> 10. Re: Umm... Hello?
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
> 11. Re: Umm... Hello?
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
> 12. Re: Umm... Hello?
> From: WeinisFROG@...
> 13. Re: Umm... Hello?
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
> 14. Re: Umm... Hello?
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
> 15. Beserker Strength found!
> From: Ric R <redr@...>
> 16. Re: Beserker Strength found!
> From: Paul <memory@...>
> 17. Re: Beserker Strength found!
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
> 18. Re: bronze weapons
> From: "Petra Fiene" <pfi@...>
> 19. Money drain ?!?
> From: XIII <dlepriol@...>
> 20. Re: bronze weapons
> From: "Rob Berryhill" <racefan@...>
>
>
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:22:08 -0700
> From: Eain Bankins <eain@...>
>Subject: Re: Financial Aid
>
>Wanderer CommonWealth wrote:
>>
>> From: Wanderer CommonWealth <wanderercw@...>
>>
>> Will it say it's trivial for that stone? cause i can
>> make malachite rings at like 25 and it doesn't say
>> trivial.
>
>Yes, it'll say "This item is trivial for someone of your skills to
make"
>or somethng like that.
>
>-Bukaru
>
>
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
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>Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:15:17 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Wanderer CommonWealth <wanderercw@...>
>Subject: Re: New Survey
>
>
>/consent does work you have to type /consent <name>
>for example /consent explorer
>IT WORKS i've used it lots
>The Wanderer
>--- "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...> wrote:
>> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
>>
>> the /consent does not work...I've tried that.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steven J. Cotellesse
>> [mailto:stevec@...]
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 1:22 PM
>> To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>> Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: New Survey
>>
>>
>> From: "Steven J. Cotellesse" <stevec@...>
>>
>> You can transfer items between two (or more) of your
>> characters by one of
>> two ways. Note, some consider this twinking and a
>> bad thing. You can use a
>> friend as a go between or just find an out of the
>> way spot like a room at an
>> inn. Bring both of your charcters there. Then have
>> one character drop the
>> goodies on the floor. Quickly camp and bring your
>> other character on and
>> pick up the items. If more than one item you can
>> just drop them all on the
>> ground (usually shows as one little bag but they're
>> all there) or put in
>> container and drop container. Not sure how long
>> items dropped hang around
>> but they do hang around long enough to make a switch
>> of characters. Down
>> side is if someone comes by and sees the bag on the
>> ground while you're in
>> between characters, they may help themselves to it.
>>
>> I've heard that you can give /consent to a player
>> not currently in the game,
>> making the possibility of having one of your
>> characters loot another of your
>> character's corpse. I don't know if this is
>> possible or not.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Daniel Devorkin <devo@...>
>> To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>> <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>> Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 3:56 PM
>> Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: New Survey
>>
>>
>> >From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>> >
>> >how do you transfer items between charecters then?
>> dont you have to log off
>> >with one to log in with the other?
>> >or are you using a friend for this?
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>May The Wanderers Protect You
>
>
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>Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:22:27 -0700
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
>Subject: Re: New Survey
>
>even on a character that's not currently online?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wanderer CommonWealth [mailto:wanderercw@...]
>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 3:15 PM
>To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: New Survey
>
>
>From: Wanderer CommonWealth <wanderercw@...>
>
>
>/consent does work you have to type /consent <name>
>for example /consent explorer
>IT WORKS i've used it lots
>The Wanderer
>--- "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...> wrote:
>> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
>>
>> the /consent does not work...I've tried that.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steven J. Cotellesse
>> [mailto:stevec@...]
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 1:22 PM
>> To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>> Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: New Survey
>>
>>
>> From: "Steven J. Cotellesse" <stevec@...>
>>
>> You can transfer items between two (or more) of your
>> characters by one of
>> two ways. Note, some consider this twinking and a
>> bad thing. You can use a
>> friend as a go between or just find an out of the
>> way spot like a room at an
>> inn. Bring both of your charcters there. Then have
>> one character drop the
>> goodies on the floor. Quickly camp and bring your
>> other character on and
>> pick up the items. If more than one item you can
>> just drop them all on the
>> ground (usually shows as one little bag but they're
>> all there) or put in
>> container and drop container. Not sure how long
>> items dropped hang around
>> but they do hang around long enough to make a switch
>> of characters. Down
>> side is if someone comes by and sees the bag on the
>> ground while you're in
>> between characters, they may help themselves to it.
>>
>> I've heard that you can give /consent to a player
>> not currently in the game,
>> making the possibility of having one of your
>> characters loot another of your
>> character's corpse. I don't know if this is
>> possible or not.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Daniel Devorkin <devo@...>
>> To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>> <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>> Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 3:56 PM
>> Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: New Survey
>>
>>
>> >From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>> >
>> >how do you transfer items between charecters then?
>> dont you have to log off
>> >with one to log in with the other?
>> >or are you using a friend for this?
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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>Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:37:21 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Wanderer CommonWealth <wanderercw@...>
>Subject: Alliance I know what it does :-)
>
>Ok guys,
>After thinkin a bit,
>I have a theory, I think it works
>When I wen't to erudin A bar of silver cost me 5 gp
>around. When I wen't to queynos it cost about 6 or
>more.
>But, When i cast alliance when in queynos it wen't
>back to the erudin cost. I think this is what it does,
>You guys might wanna look into it agian I forget if it
>does work i'm just not sure. And you are all welcome
>for the gems list :-)
>*May The Wanderer's Protect You All*
>The Wanderer
>===
>The Wanderer
>May The Wanderers Protect You
>
>
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>Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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>Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:44:41 -0700
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
>Subject: Re: Alliance I know what it does :-)
>
>That's probably what it does...I raised my faction big time in
Qeynos by
>killing a lot of gnolls and now a lot of the merchants look at me
amiably
>and give me the best prices anyway. Same thing now in Freeport by
killing
>orcs. I'm not sure your faction can go beyond that, but it looks
like this
>spell can be useful when you move in a new town.
>Skara
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wanderer CommonWealth [mailto:wanderercw@...]
>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 3:37 PM
>To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Alliance I know what it does :-)
>
>
>From: Wanderer CommonWealth <wanderercw@...>
>
>Ok guys,
>After thinkin a bit,
>I have a theory, I think it works
>When I wen't to erudin A bar of silver cost me 5 gp
>around. When I wen't to queynos it cost about 6 or
>more.
>But, When i cast alliance when in queynos it wen't
>back to the erudin cost. I think this is what it does,
>You guys might wanna look into it agian I forget if it
>does work i'm just not sure. And you are all welcome
>for the gems list :-)
>*May The Wanderer's Protect You All*
>The Wanderer
>===
>The Wanderer
>May The Wanderers Protect You
>
>
>__________________________________________________ _______
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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>Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:57:44 -0400
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>Subject: Re: ILLUSION QUESTIONS
>
>recently i have been noticing something strange about illusions.
maybe not
>strange, maybe its suppose to be this way, but i wanted to see if
anyone
>else noticed this, or is it just happening to me?
>when i cast an illusion on myself. lets say Dark Elf, then i cross
zones,
>the illusion is gone???? and i have to quickly recast before anyone
sees me?
>why does the issusion disapeas between zones??? is this a normal
thing? I
>have not gone to the dark elf city because of this, because if i
change back
>into a high elf between zones in the middle of the dark elf city, i
know i
>will not be getting my body back?
>any suggestions?
>
>-Aeramus from Bristlebane server
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>
>Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:21:37 -0700
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
>Subject: Re: ILLUSION QUESTIONS
>
>I think it's always been like that. it's probably why you'll notice
that in
>each city, the zone points are safe. you can go in Neriak, every
zone you'll
>pass will lead you to a safe point with no guard.
>Skara
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Daniel Devorkin [mailto:devo@...]
>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 4:58 PM
>To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: ILLUSION QUESTIONS
>
>
>From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>
>recently i have been noticing something strange about illusions.
maybe not
>strange, maybe its suppose to be this way, but i wanted to see if
anyone
>else noticed this, or is it just happening to me?
>when i cast an illusion on myself. lets say Dark Elf, then i cross
zones,
>the illusion is gone???? and i have to quickly recast before anyone
sees me?
>why does the issusion disapeas between zones??? is this a normal
thing? I
>have not gone to the dark elf city because of this, because if i
change back
>into a high elf between zones in the middle of the dark elf city, i
know i
>will not be getting my body back?
>any suggestions?
>
>-Aeramus from Bristlebane server
>
>
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>Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:37:20 EDT
> From: WeinisFROG@...
>Subject: Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>whats dying in pain skill?
>
>
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
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>
>Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:49:00 -0400
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>Subject: Re: ILLUSION QUESTIONS
>
>ahhh okay, thanx :)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: DeGirolami, Franck <degirolami@...>
>To: <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 8:21 PM
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: ILLUSION QUESTIONS
>
>
>> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
>>
>> I think it's always been like that. it's probably why you'll
notice that
>in
>> each city, the zone points are safe. you can go in Neriak, every
zone
>you'll
>> pass will lead you to a safe point with no guard.
>> Skara
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Daniel Devorkin [mailto:devo@...]
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 4:58 PM
>> To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>> Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: ILLUSION QUESTIONS
>>
>>
>> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>>
>> recently i have been noticing something strange about illusions.
maybe not
>> strange, maybe its suppose to be this way, but i wanted to see if
anyone
>> else noticed this, or is it just happening to me?
>> when i cast an illusion on myself. lets say Dark Elf, then i cross
zones,
>> the illusion is gone???? and i have to quickly recast before
anyone sees
>me?
>> why does the issusion disapeas between zones??? is this a normal
thing? I
>> have not gone to the dark elf city because of this, because if i
change
>back
>> into a high elf between zones in the middle of the dark elf city,
i know i
>> will not be getting my body back?
>> any suggestions?
>>
>> -Aeramus from Bristlebane server
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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>Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:53:58 -0700
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
>Subject: Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>Let me answer this, let me answer this!!!!
>the dying in pain skill can be started only after you reach 1000 in
the
>stupidity skill.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: WeinisFROG@... [mailto:WeinisFROG@...]
>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 5:37 PM
>To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>
>From: WeinisFROG@...
>
>whats dying in pain skill?
>
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>Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:58:05 -0400
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>Subject: Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>hmmmm dying in pain skill, well, its not a pleasant thing, see, for
every
>time you die, your stupidity skill goes up 5 points. then when you
reach
>1000 in that skill, everytime you die, you get a dying in pain skill
point.
>what that means, is that for each death, you loose a random item, so
you can
>feel your characters pain. the item could be in the bank, or on your
person,
>or even money. its totally random, just dont let your stupidity
skill get
>that high, and you'll be fine :)
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: DeGirolami, Franck <degirolami@...>
>To: <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 8:53 PM
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>
>> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
>>
>> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>> Let me answer this, let me answer this!!!!
>> the dying in pain skill can be started only after you reach 1000
in the
>> stupidity skill.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WeinisFROG@... [mailto:WeinisFROG@...]
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 5:37 PM
>> To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>> Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: Umm... Hello?
>>
>>
>> From: WeinisFROG@...
>>
>> whats dying in pain skill?
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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>Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:54:16 EDT
> From: WeinisFROG@...
>Subject: Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>Hey retard excuse me for not being a total EQ nerd but i have never
heard of
>the dying in pain skill if you would perfer to lower yourself to a
9 year
>olds standered and not help a fellow enchanter then fine it doenst
bother me
>thank you :)
>
>
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
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>Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:12:16 -0700
> From: "DeGirolami, Franck" <degirolami@...>
>Subject: Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>I'm sorry..I just had a great laugh so I should thank you for it.
there is
>no dying in pain skill of course.
>That was a joke in the first place.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: WeinisFROG@... [mailto:WeinisFROG@...]
>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 5:54 PM
>To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>
>From: WeinisFROG@...
>
>Hey retard excuse me for not being a total EQ nerd but i have never
heard of
>
>the dying in pain skill if you would perfer to lower yourself to a
9 year
>olds standered and not help a fellow enchanter then fine it doenst
bother me
>
>thank you :)
>
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>Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:11:03 -0400
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>Subject: Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>hey look buddy, i'm just trying to have a good time, the chances that
>someone would ask what that skill was were slim to none. so when
someone
>asked it, what did you expect?
>did you actually think there was a dying in pain skill???
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <WeinisFROG@...>
>To: <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 8:54 PM
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: Umm... Hello?
>
>
>> From: WeinisFROG@...
>>
>> Hey retard excuse me for not being a total EQ nerd but i have
never heard
>of
>> the dying in pain skill if you would perfer to lower yourself to
a 9
>year
>> olds standered and not help a fellow enchanter then fine it doenst
bother
>me
>> thank you :)
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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>> http://www.ONElist.com
>> Friends tell friends about ONElist!
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>Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:21:45 -0500
> From: Ric R <redr@...>
>Subject: Beserker Strength found!
>
>Good and bad news my brother Enchanters!
>
>Berserker Strenght is obtained by combining both left and right
pages 30 of
>Tasarin's grimoire, leaving 2 other slots empty in the tomb. Yes It
seems
>this is a research only spell, I am also assuming the Enchantment of
Light
>and Brilliance spells are as well.
>This is all the info I have at this time, I do not know what skill
level of
>research is needed nor do I know where the pages were obtained from.
When I
>find out, I'll be sure to post it.
>
>
>
>Telan Ka`Rlaah of Rellos Zeke
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
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>
>Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:21:55 -0400
> From: Paul <memory@...>
>Subject: Re: Beserker Strength found!
>
>Holy Crap, a real spell researched. I am so happy to see it fianlly
work.
>
>WHOOO HOOO
>
>Kyrell of Cazic-Thule
>
>At 10:21 PM 4/26/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>From: Ric R <redr@...>
>>
>>Good and bad news my brother Enchanters!
>>
>>Berserker Strenght is obtained by combining both left and right
pages 30 of
>>Tasarin's grimoire, leaving 2 other slots empty in the tomb. Yes It
seems
>>this is a research only spell, I am also assuming the Enchantment
of Light
>>and Brilliance spells are as well.
>>This is all the info I have at this time, I do not know what skill
level of
>>research is needed nor do I know where the pages were obtained
from. When I
>>find out, I'll be sure to post it.
>>
>>
>>
>>Telan Ka`Rlaah of Rellos Zeke
>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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>
>Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:28:51 -0400
> From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>Subject: Re: Beserker Strength found!
>
>what is the name of the book you combine them in? book of
restoration?
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Paul <memory@...>
>To: <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 11:21 AM
>Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: Beserker Strength found!
>
>
>> From: Paul <memory@...>
>>
>> Holy Crap, a real spell researched. I am so happy to see it
fianlly work.
>>
>> WHOOO HOOO
>>
>> Kyrell of Cazic-Thule
>>
>> At 10:21 PM 4/26/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> >From: Ric R <redr@...>
>> >
>> >Good and bad news my brother Enchanters!
>> >
>> >Berserker Strenght is obtained by combining both left and right
pages 30
>of
>> >Tasarin's grimoire, leaving 2 other slots empty in the tomb. Yes
It seems
>> >this is a research only spell, I am also assuming the Enchantment
of
>Light
>> >and Brilliance spells are as well.
>> >This is all the info I have at this time, I do not know what
skill level
>of
>> >research is needed nor do I know where the pages were obtained
from. When
>I
>> >find out, I'll be sure to post it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Telan Ka`Rlaah of Rellos Zeke
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >http://www.ONElist.com
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>Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:59:41 +0200
> From: "Petra Fiene" <pfi@...>
>Subject: Re: bronze weapons
>
>what do you mean by making the staff, with tradeskill smithing?
>i cant do smithing, but what components are necessary, what
skilllevel
>approx. ... any kind totem? i saw totems for sale in Neriak as well
>
>-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: Daniel Devorkin <devo@...>
>An: eqenchanters@onelist.com <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>Datum: Montag, 26. April 1999 11:26
>Betreff: [eqenchanters] Re: bronze weapons
>
>
>>From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>>
>>can you make the totem staff? i know of a place that is selling me
the
>>totem?
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Petra Fiene <pfi@...>
>>To: <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>>Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 1:36 AM
>>Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: bronze weapons
>>
>>
>>> From: "Petra Fiene" <pfi@...>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know where i can find a fine steel staff around
Neriak,
>>> and as well where to get this runed totem staff?
>>>
>>> Niniel
>>> lvl 10 darkelf echantress
>>>
>>> -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Magik <aarongb@...>
>>> An: eqenchanters@onelist.com <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>>> Datum: Mittwoch, 21. April 1999 21:39
>>> Betreff: [eqenchanters] Re: bronze weapons
>>>
>>>
>>> >From: "Magik" <aarongb@...>
>>> >
>>> >NO!!!......and if youd REALLY like a good weapon to use as a
>>staff......go
>>> >get a Fine Steel Staff.....I have one and they are
WONDERFUL!!!!......
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Neurosiz
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>>> >Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately?
>>> >http://www.ONElist.com
>>> >ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and community service on the
Internet!
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>>> Did you know that we add over 1,000 new e-mail communities every
day?
>>> http://www.ONElist.com
>>> Explore a new hobby, discover a new friend, laugh at a new joke!
>>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>>Shop.theglobe.com * One-Stop Shopping * Free Shipping in U.S.!
>>Live Personal Shopper * Satisfaction Guaranteed * No Hassle Returns!
>>Accessories, Apparel, Jewelry, Kids, Sporting Goods, Apparel, More!!
>> http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe0
>>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>
>Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:01:53 +0900
> From: XIII <dlepriol@...>
>Subject: Money drain ?!?
>
>Hello,
>
>Something has been nagging me of late. Not that it would change
anything in
>my desire to master jewelry, but has any of you yet reached a skill
level
>where you gained more money than you put in in the first place by
using
>this craft?.
>
>- please separate unenchanted and enchanted items made.
>
>Ibnabeth /Karana
>(running a 7% steady loss from the start - not taking in account
failed
>attempts)
>
>
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>
>Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 03:47:41 -0500
> From: "Rob Berryhill" <racefan@...>
>Subject: Re: bronze weapons
>
>You *cannot* make the Runed Totem Staffs, nor any other weapons yet.
>
>Djar Lightbringer, Chancellor of HOA (Tarew Marr Server)
>Servant of Light, Deliverer of the Truth to Norrath
>http://www.hoa-rpg.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Petra Fiene [mailto:pfi@...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 1:00 AM
>> To: eqenchanters@onelist.com
>> Subject: [eqenchanters] Re: bronze weapons
>>
>>
>> From: "Petra Fiene" <pfi@...>
>>
>> what do you mean by making the staff, with tradeskill smithing?
>> i cant do smithing, but what components are necessary, what
skilllevel
>> approx. ... any kind totem? i saw totems for sale in Neriak as well
>>
>> -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Daniel Devorkin <devo@...>
>> An: eqenchanters@onelist.com <eqenchanters@onelist.com>
>> Datum: Montag, 26. April 1999 11:26
>> Betreff: [eqenchanters] Re: bronze weapons
>>
>>
>> >From: "Daniel Devorkin" <devo@...>
>> >
>> >can you make the totem staff? i know of a place that is selling
me the
>> >totem?
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>__________________________________________________ ___________________
__________
>


__________________________________________________ _____________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 04:13 AM
GOT IT.

Hahah he misspelled Clarity, that's why it wasn't coming up in my searches.

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/eqenchanters/messages/1082


[Next Message in Time] | [Previous Message in Time] | [Next Message in Topic] | [Previous Message in Topic]

Message ID: 1082
Date: Wed May 26 06:52:30 BST 1999
Author: Ric R
Subject: Re: HORRAY! Ok maybe not horray but at least YEAH!


No doubt! This patch has restored my faith that Veriant doesn't hate
Enchanters. The changes with Tashan, and Tashani, whirl, getting a new
whirl, Clairity (best of all), have all been awesome!!


Clarity was 100% added in the late May patch.

Izmael
10-12-2019, 04:15 AM
Looks like pretty solid evidence ITT. Sorry encs (I'm one!).

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 04:56 AM
Filed a bug thread summarizing all the evidence thus far.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2982241#post2982241

Tethler
10-12-2019, 05:25 AM
Filed a bug thread summarizing all the evidence thus far.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2982241#post2982241

As a non-enchanter, I applaud your efforts!

Secrets
10-12-2019, 05:35 AM
Can confirm, the only Clarity spell shipped on the 1999 Yellow Disk was "Cassandra`s Chorus of Clarity"

https://i.imgur.com/clcT1Yu.png

The spell that later became Clarity was at index 174 as the spell "Ally", which added 400 faction. It was a direct upgrade to Benevolence.

That spell may not have been present on launch. though that info may have been lost to time:

https://i.imgur.com/3wJ54vQ.png

randal.flagg
10-12-2019, 05:40 AM
The changes with Tashan, and Tashani, whirl, getting a new whirl, Clairity (best of all), have all been awesome!!.


They aren't stating that clarity is new, only that whirl is new and that clarity has changed.

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 06:00 AM
Secrets has taken the spdat.eff from the 1999 retail discs and
neither Clarity nor Insight are in it.

It's beyond dispute now.

Varlos
10-12-2019, 06:33 AM
Every quote listed in this thread is being taken out of context, they're all vaguely referencing hitting level 29 and how nice it is to finally have clarity. Doesn't sound like it was patched in based on those messages.

Stay woke, this is them trying to reduce number of Enchanters on launch with scare tactics and lies.

Pozzey
10-12-2019, 06:40 AM
So.... is chanter Clarity going to be on Green from day 1 or?...

sciception
10-12-2019, 07:34 AM
They had Clarity day 1, so it stands to reason they will again.

DMN
10-12-2019, 07:41 AM
They had Clarity day 1, so it stands to reason they will again.

What contemporary sources do you have which suggest it was in on day 1.


Admittedly I thought it was sooner added to the game than late may, but my memory is a bit skewed sometimes because I played on the test server as well as production servers.

so, again, if you have contemporary information it was in at release or earlier than late may, do supply it.

Evia
10-12-2019, 08:50 AM
Think about how much more balanced the classes would be if they gave Wizards Clarity and Breeze and not enchanters.

Fatal mistake

Kornaki
10-12-2019, 08:51 AM
But that wouldn't fit with the theme of the class, which is.... Not bring able to do very much?

Palemoon
10-12-2019, 09:18 AM
Think about how much more balanced the classes would be if they gave Wizards Clarity and Breeze and not enchanters.

Fatal mistake

Should of gave wizards the shield of lava line too, and the mages O'kiels radiation.

That makes a bit more sense then clarity for wiz

Jimjam
10-12-2019, 09:20 AM
Should of gave wizards the shield of lava line too, and the mages O'kiels radiation.

That makes a bit more sense then clarity for wiz

I disagree with the clarity thing, as i feel it is out of theme for wizards, i agree on the ds thing though!

I'm wondering if maybe wizards should have got runes instead of enchanters. Enchanters could have the self only line instead (and keep the beserker line too).

All fruitless conjecture though.

Tenlaar
10-12-2019, 09:24 AM
The DS going to wizards would make sense from a balance perspective. That would give wizards a lower but still present sustained DPS contribution with higher spikes vs. the mage with a higher sustained DPS and lower spikes.

Palemoon
10-12-2019, 09:25 AM
I disagree with the clarity thing, as i feel it is out of theme for wizards, i agree on the ds thing though!

I'm wondering if maybe wizards should have got runes instead of enchanters. Enchanters could have the self only line instead (and keep the beserker line too).

All fruitless conjecture though.

Well throwing mystic runes of protection on others feels very enchantery. But wizards are all about barriers and forcefields. Kinda a toss up.

But after tinkering with a lowbie wiz to the 20's, boy do they need a bit more group utility. There is just not THAT much difference between their nukes and the nukes of a mage or druid.

Or maybe its the mage/druid nukes that should of been toned down. /shrug

Mages might see themselves balanced out vs. wiz a bit better on Green if all the classic mage adjustments (nerfs) go in.

sciception
10-12-2019, 09:40 AM
I think the confusion lies in the naming of the spells and the separation of old spell effects. Enchanters had some sort of mana regeneration, but I can't quite put my finger on what that was. I recall an ongoing debate on whether or not a low 30's Enchanter spell stacked with clarity and I think the reason for this debate was because Verant Interactive had not clarified the spell effect separations. This kind of thing happened pretty frequently but there are very few notes on them because V.I. was often very cryptic when it came to explaining game mechanics.

Umbral Messenger, Enchantment of Brilliance, Detect Magic, and Enchantment of Light are just a few examples of spells that were relabeled, removed or reconstituted at a later date. I'd tell you to guess what these spells do, but it may be easier to win the lottery twice in one day after rolling twin 00's for Psionics. The two enchantments spells listed here were originally tied to the mana conversion line and we now know them as Thicken and Clarify Mana. The term Brillance was reconstituted to an INT buff and I believe Detect Magic spell was simply removed completely (I have no idea what that was).

My point is this. I see where you have something showing Clarity was added, but was it really added or was another spell separated and renamed to reflect it's purpose? Maybe the developers caved to a barrage of angry voices crying for faster regeneration rates or maybe the previous mana regeneration spell was under-powered and poorly labeled. From my memory, I am leaning towards the latter since that debate on whether or not the two spells stacked is still clearly stuck in my head. GL.

Rooj
10-12-2019, 11:07 AM
Secrets has taken the spdat.eff from the 1999 retail discs and
neither Clarity nor Insight are in it.

It's beyond dispute now.

The data on discs are normally from a build quite a bit older than the launch build. It's the reason I didn't suggest doing this myself, because even though it might sound like a good idea at first, it ultimately doesn't really mean anything. You're likely to find plenty of differences between a disc build and a launch build.

On the other hand I'd like to remind people that there are also plenty of times when things get changed/added/removed but aren't mentioned in any patch notes.

Albane
10-12-2019, 11:35 AM
I hope this game launches with insane bugs and months of constant down time, or else all of you hard core "must be classic" fans will be so pissed.

EDIT: As someone who didn't play until Vallon Zek was launched, Clarity was always there.

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 11:47 AM
It's true that much can change between Gold and Release. But we can say pretty conclusively that it didn't.

Why?

Because in the Gold spdat.eff, the spell Ally is in the spell ID spot where Clarity is supposed to be. Insight is also missing entirely.

The EQLizer site has Ally, but not Clarity or Insight.

The May 20 spdat.eff dump off the newsgroup has Ally and other high level enchanter spells like Brilliance, but not Clarity or Insight.

We have a complete lack of any mention of the word Clarity from March until late May on the eqenchanters list. 1,400 messages including those about high level spells like Brilliance were sent, and not once was Clarity or Insight mentioned for three months.

We have notes from Brad saying that Clarity and Insight were added since launch.

Finally we have a big enchanter patch at the end of May with big tweaks, and a mention that Clarity was added.

You can't try to counter this conclusion by picking a single piece of evidence and trying to refute the single piece. You have to make a case for why all the above is wrong, as a whole. If you can counter all those five or six things on their merits I'll believe you.

It's starting to resemble climate change denial in here :D

randal.flagg
10-12-2019, 11:50 AM
Secrets has taken the spdat.eff from the 1999 retail discs and
neither Clarity nor Insight are in it.

It's beyond dispute now.

How is this beyond dispute? Do you know for a fact there wasn't a patch on day 0?

IMO using the original retail discs as a starting point is a ridiculous idea

DMN
10-12-2019, 11:57 AM
How is this beyond dispute? Do you know for a fact there wasn't a patch on day 0?

IMO using the original retail discs as a starting point is a ridiculous idea

No amount of evidence can prove a negative.

Ad we don't just have the earliest spdat, we have a dev actually mentioning it was added post release.

Tenlaar
10-12-2019, 11:58 AM
Until somebody can post patch notes from that day in May this all remains speculation.

sciception
10-12-2019, 12:04 PM
It's true that much can change between Gold and Release. But we can say pretty conclusively that it didn't.

Why?

Because in the Gold spdat.eff, the spell Ally is in the spell ID spot where Clarity is supposed to be. Insight is also missing entirely.

The EQLizer site has Ally, but not Clarity or Insight.

The May 20 spdat.eff dump off the newsgroup has Ally and other high level enchanter spells like Brilliance, but not Clarity or Insight.

We have a complete lack of any mention of the word Clarity from March until late May on the eqenchanters list. 1,400 messages including those about high level spells like Brilliance were sent, and not once was Clarity or Insight mentioned for three months.

We have notes from Brad saying that Clarity and Insight were added since launch.

Finally we have a big enchanter patch at the end of May with big tweaks, and a mention that Clarity was added.

You can't try to counter this conclusion by picking a single piece of evidence and trying to refute the single piece. You have to make a case for why all the above is wrong, as a whole. If you can counter all those five or six things on their merits I'll believe you.

It's starting to resemble climate change denial in here :D

Okay, I'll re-post this with some points you made in yours. Notice some of these names and compare them to the names in my post.

I think the confusion lies in the naming of the spells and the separation of old spell effects. Enchanters had some sort of mana regeneration, but I can't quite put my finger on what that was. I recall an ongoing debate on whether or not a low 30's Enchanter spell stacked with clarity and I think the reason for this debate was because Verant Interactive had not clarified the spell effect separations. This kind of thing happened pretty frequently but there are very few notes on them because V.I. was often very cryptic when it came to explaining game mechanics.

Umbral Messenger, Enchantment of Brilliance, Detect Magic, and Enchantment of Light are just a few examples of spells that were relabeled, removed or reconstituted at a later date. I'd tell you to guess what these spells do, but it may be easier to win the lottery twice in one day after rolling twin 00's for Psionics. The two enchantments spells listed here were originally tied to the mana conversion line and we now know them as Thicken and Clarify Mana. The term Brillance was reconstituted to an INT buff and I believe Detect Magic spell was simply removed completely (I have no idea what that was).

My point is this. I see where you have something showing Clarity was added, but was it really added or was another spell separated and renamed to reflect it's purpose? Maybe the developers caved to a barrage of angry voices crying for faster regeneration rates or maybe the previous mana regeneration spell was under-powered and poorly labeled. From my memory, I am leaning towards the latter since that debate on whether or not the two spells stacked is still clearly stuck in my head. GL.

I mean you said it yourself, they made a LOT of big tweaks. It simply wasn't called Clarity or Brilliance before. They simply simplified the spells. I just wish I knew from which. That would certainly clear up the confusion. I guess I should add Ally to the list as well.

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 12:07 PM
I'll just add this tidbit on probability.

If I give you seven independent pieces of evidence that point to the same conclusion, but there's a 9/10 chance I'm wrong about each piece of evidence individually, it's still better odds I'm right.

Why?

1.0 * 0.9 = 0.9
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.81
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.729
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.6561
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.59049
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.531441
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.4782969

That's the power of bringing lots of evidence to bear.

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 12:09 PM
@Secrets, can you check the spdat.eff for all effects that increase Mana regen? That should dispel the theory that Clarity was in but under the guise of some other enchanter spell.

sciception
10-12-2019, 12:11 PM
@Secrets, can you check the spdat.eff for all effects that increase Mana regen? That should dispel the theory that Clarity was in but under the guise of some other enchanter spell.

That would certainly clear things up for me.

If I give you seven independent pieces of evidence that point to the same conclusion, but there's a 9/10 chance I'm wrong about each piece of evidence individually, it's still better odds I'm right.

Why?

1.0 * 0.9 = 0.9
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.81
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.729
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.6561
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.59049
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.531441
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.4782969

That's the power of bringing lots of evidence to bear.

This, however, seems like a well thought out equation with far too many imaginary factors.

DMN
10-12-2019, 12:12 PM
I mean you said it yourself, they made a LOT of big tweaks. It simply wasn't called Clarity or Brilliance before. They simply simplified the spells. I just wish I knew from which. That would certainly clear up the confusion. I guess I should add Ally to the list as well.


I know what all those spells did, but it's not really important. But what I do not know is what this supposed "pre-clarity" clarity was called.

Perhaps you could provide a name for this spell.

sciception
10-12-2019, 12:15 PM
I know what all those spells did, but it's not really important. But what I do not know is what this supposed "pre-clarity" clarity was called.

Perhaps you could provide a name for this spell.

Sorry, I wish I knew the answer to that, but the suggestion to review (@secrets three post earlier) sounds like a good plan.

Rooj
10-12-2019, 12:17 PM
How is this beyond dispute? Do you know for a fact there wasn't a patch on day 0?

IMO using the original retail discs as a starting point is a ridiculous idea

That's the thing and the reason I even brought it up - there most certainly is usually a patch on day 0 for anything online. Also does anyone remember how often patches happened back then?

DMN
10-12-2019, 12:17 PM
Sorry, I wish I knew the answer to that, but the suggestion to review (@secrets three post earlier) sounds like a good plan.

it was probably harmony. The game was full of idiots claiming it increased mana regen.

sciception
10-12-2019, 12:22 PM
That's the thing and the reason I even brought it up - there most certainly is usually a patch on day 0 for anything online. Also does anyone remember how often patches happened back then?

I do and it was almost daily and completely random. They almost never gave an explanation as to why they did so either. Patches of patches were not uncommon at all. Like I said in a previous post on another thread, if you really want the original launch experience, we need chat rooms on the log in screen, GM manning them for world kicks and 2-8 hr downtime's with no explanation.

bubur
10-12-2019, 02:51 PM
we can try our best to recreate the classic spellfiles, ie the historic, scheduled changes in line with the effort for museum-like preservation of this compilation of code we call everquest, without deliberately causing disconnects and downtimes to simulate 1999 internet

but you probably already know that, innit it?

Secrets
10-12-2019, 02:53 PM
@Secrets, can you check the spdat.eff for all effects that increase Mana regen? That should dispel the theory that Clarity was in but under the guise of some other enchanter spell.

There's only a few, and it's the bard/mana sieve/cannibalize/lich lines.

The others are like HpToMana and ManaConvert used for items like Manastone.

Ally had one effect and it was +400 faction modifier for primary faction.

Both Insight and Clarity did not exist in the yellow disk spdat.eff file.

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 03:03 PM
Thanks dude.

Secrets
10-12-2019, 03:18 PM
Umbral Messenger, Enchantment of Brilliance, Detect Magic, and Enchantment of Light


Umbral Messenger transferred the item on your cursor to another player's cursor. If the item is a container, the item does not leave the player. I think you can guess why this was removed.

The following string is present as a result of this action, and triggers when a container is on your cursor. It's a fail condition:

The container refuses to disappear.
(SE_TransferItem)


Enchantment of Brilliance and Enchantment of Light seemed to be handled by the server, and are not present on the client in any form beyond the spell data. They will actually throw the error message Unknown instant affect 80 for <name>

It's possible they used to add light sources of varying intensity, but were scrapped for some reason. There's still a reference to 80 in the lighting code that grabs a spell effect for an actor.

(SE_EnchantLight)

Detect Magic wasn't present in the yellow disk build, but actually had the spell effect in the game client. It would display one of three strings when used:

The item you are holding is magical.
The item you are holding does not appear to be magical.
You are not holding an item!
(SE_DetectMagic)

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 03:40 PM
Found another post from the _EQ_Magic list post late-May patch:

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/_eq_magic/messages/150


[Next Message in Time] | [Previous Message in Time] | [Next Message in Topic] | [Previous Message in Topic]

Message ID: 150
Date: Wed May 26 22:58:16 BST 1999
Author: Wizard
Subject: New enchanter spell?


I heared that new 29 lv enchanter spell make a group mana recovery 50%
faster is this true?



Silverion
High elf wizard (against all statistics eheheeh)
Fenin Ro

http://www.tip.it/wizard

moderator mailto:_EQ_magic@onelist.com


The 'coincidences' keep stacking up. :D

DMN
10-12-2019, 04:01 PM
Apparently they wanted to do something along the lines of identifying items in dungeons in dragons, where you basically need someone to cast identify on the item to determine its nature. it never went anywhere in beta and I suppose scrapped as a bad idea.

I believe the enchantment of brilliance/light where intended to be something akin to enchanters "sentry" ability, but instead of a tripwire of sorts they would summon a bright light source at the location.

They seemed to have a real hard on for light manipulation spells/effects. In beta necro's had one too, but it was self only about as powerful as a lightstone.

randal.flagg
10-12-2019, 04:01 PM
The 'coincidences' keep stacking up. :D

OOOOF. RIP clarity.

Vexenu
10-12-2019, 04:43 PM
The evidence is more than conclusive at this point.

sciception
10-12-2019, 04:45 PM
Umbral Messenger transferred the item on your cursor to another player's cursor. If the item is a container, the item does not leave the player. I think you can guess why this was removed.

Yeah, Pixelated STDs were a huge problem back then

The following string is present as a result of this action, and triggers when a container is on your cursor. It's a fail condition:

The container refuses to disappear.
(SE_TransferItem)

“Harpies, n. A disease transmitted to humans by birds with human faces.”
― Ron Brackin


Enchantment of Brilliance and Enchantment of Light seemed to be handled by the server, and are not present on the client in any form beyond the spell data. They will actually throw the error message Unknown instant affect 80 for <name>

It's possible they used to add light sources of varying intensity, but were scrapped for some reason. There's still a reference to 80 in the lighting code that grabs a spell effect for an actor.

(SE_EnchantLight)

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=60563
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=60565

So, if all these logs are right why does Zam have these two listed as mana conversion spells?

1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.4782969
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.531441
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.59049
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.6561
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.729
1.0 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.81
1.0 * 0.9 = 0.9

"Captain, we're losing power on the Warp Engines." -Scotty


Detect Magic wasn't present in the yellow disk build, but actually had the spell effect in the game client. It would display one of three strings when used:

The item you are holding is magical.
The item you are holding does not appear to be magical.
You are not holding an item!
(SE_DetectMagic)

So lets say we did launch with no Clarity. How do you think that is going to affect the class distribution? Are you looking to play on a server primarily compromised by pet classes? Because, Classic EQ doesn't need Tanks and Healers to do much of anything end game for a very (very) long time. Why would anyone even make a Wizard or any other mana reliant class before this comes into game? People did before because they didn't know better, but they do now. Especially after being in an open forum before hand. Sure, you can argue that there are Bards who don't know how to solo at light speed and may want to join a group. But I think all this would do is discourage the class diversity we are used to enjoying. Just my two cents on the matter.

Oh, I still feel that there was another spell with mana regen. But, even if that isn't the case, the true power of an Enchanter is undoubtedly the Charm line of spells. I am sure people will realize this and play them anyway "(Is what I'd like to say, except the two Enchanters in our premade have already conditionally changed to pet classes)]". *rip I can't blame them though, keeping up with mana for Charming would be a huge pain for both the Enchanter AND the healer.

sciception
10-12-2019, 04:48 PM
The evidence is more than conclusive at this point.

Go go pet classes.

Secrets
10-12-2019, 05:16 PM
So, if all these logs are right why does Zam have these two listed as mana conversion spells?


The IDs were re-used and the item points to a spell ID, not an effect type.

These aren't mana conversion spells, they summon items that can be used in tradeskills.

SE_EnchantLight has no clientside use beyond being referenced by ID 80 in an actor point light create call.

Thicken Mana is 390. Guess what ID 390 is in spdat.eff?

https://i.imgur.com/VrW28Ov.png

Same with the other index: Crystallize Mana is 439, and Enchantment of Brilliance is 439.

Baler
10-12-2019, 05:17 PM
Looking forward to spells_us.txt V51

Secrets
10-12-2019, 05:21 PM
So lets say we did launch with no Clarity. How do you think that is going to affect the class distribution? Are you looking to play on a server primarily compromised by pet classes? Because, Classic EQ doesn't need Tanks and Healers to do much of anything end game for a very (very) long time. Why would anyone even make a Wizard or any other mana reliant class before this comes into game? People did before because they didn't know better, but they do now. Especially after being in an open forum before hand. Sure, you can argue that there are Bards who don't know how to solo at light speed and may want to join a group. But I think all this would do is discourage the class diversity we are used to enjoying. Just my two cents on the matter.

Oh, I still feel that there was another spell with mana regen. But, even if that isn't the case, the true power of an Enchanter is undoubtedly the Charm line of spells. I am sure people will realize this and play them anyway "(Is what I'd like to say, except the two Enchanters in our premade have already conditionally changed to pet classes)]". *rip I can't blame them though, keeping up with mana for Charming would be a huge pain for both the Enchanter AND the healer.

I think the answer for this is nothing in life is fair, and the server staff is recreating each era according to the patch timeline, so if it is proven, it shall be done.

sciception
10-12-2019, 05:23 PM
The IDs were re-used and the item points to a spell ID, not an effect type.

These aren't mana conversion spells, they summon items that can be used in tradeskills.

SE_EnchantLight has no clientside use beyond being referenced by ID 80 in an actor point light create call.

Thicken Mana is 390. Guess what ID 390 is in spdat.eff?

https://i.imgur.com/VrW28Ov.png

Same with the other index: Crystallize Mana is 439, and Enchantment of Brilliance is 439.

"Distills mana into a physical form. Consumes a poison vial and two sapphires when cast."

Maybe conversion was the wrong word? But, incorporeal to physical sounds like a conversion to me.

Conversion-noun
1-the act or process of converting; 2-state of being converted.
change in character, form, or function.

bubur
10-12-2019, 05:26 PM
So lets say we did launch with no Clarity. How do you think that is going to affect the class distribution?

i know 1 way to find out for sure

sciception
10-12-2019, 05:28 PM
I think the answer for this is nothing in life is fair, and the server staff is recreating each era according to the patch timeline, so if it is proven, it shall be done.

Eh, I lost interest in this after my pre-made switched to 5 pet classes.

kylok
10-12-2019, 05:30 PM
So lets say we did launch with no Clarity. How do you think that is going to affect the class distribution? Are you looking to play on a server primarily compromised by pet classes? Because, Classic EQ doesn't need Tanks and Healers to do much of anything end game for a very (very) long time. Why would anyone even make a Wizard or any other mana reliant class before this comes into game? People did before because they didn't know better, but they do now. Especially after being in an open forum before hand. Sure, you can argue that there are Bards who don't know how to solo at light speed and may want to join a group. But I think all this would do is discourage the class diversity we are used to enjoying. Just my two cents on the matter.

Oh, I still feel that there was another spell with mana regen. But, even if that isn't the case, the true power of an Enchanter is undoubtedly the Charm line of spells. I am sure people will realize this and play them anyway "(Is what I'd like to say, except the two Enchanters in our premade have already conditionally changed to pet classes)]". *rip I can't blame them though, keeping up with mana for Charming would be a huge pain for both the Enchanter AND the healer.

I really don't think it's going to make a huge impact on class distribution tbh. Clarity gets added 2-3 months after launch... it's not a huge deal. I'm going to be maining an enchanter for Green and I have no issues with not starting with Clarity. Furthermore - bards will be limited to killing 4 mobs at a time just like druids and wizards so I do feel that they will be grouping more than they would otherwise, with the added incentive that they're the only source of mana regen for a little bit at launch.

A lot of the beauty of the original game was in the evolution, with patches being a huge part of that. I for one am looking forward to my class evolving with time - it's a shame the people in your group do not share my enthusiasm. For my two cents, it seems a touch short sided to dismiss a class entirely instead of waiting a few months - but pixel lust is a hell of a drug.

sciception
10-12-2019, 05:32 PM
Now our Druid is switching to a Necro, so 6 pet classes. Apparently Necromancers can heal just as well anyway and pets dont need to CR.

bubur
10-12-2019, 05:34 PM
Now our Druid is switching to a Necro, so 6 pet classes. Apparently Necromancers can heal just as well anyway and pets dont need to CR.

very touching turn of events. i will pray for you in these tragic, classic circumstances

sciception
10-12-2019, 05:48 PM
A very touching turn of events. I will pray for you during these tragic, yet authentically classic times.

I don't really view a two Necromancer and four Magician group as a tragedy. Thank you for your prayers.:)

Vexenu
10-12-2019, 05:50 PM
No one cares about the class composition of your no-lifer speed run group. Green is not designed to facilitate your speed run, it's designed to recreate EQ when it launched in 1999 as accurately as possible. Your personal feelings have no place in regards to what content the server launches with. The only consideration is timeline accuracy.

sciception
10-12-2019, 05:52 PM
No one cares about the class composition of your no-lifer speed run group. Green is not designed to facilitate your speed run, it's designed to recreate EQ when it launched in 1999 as accurately as possible. Your personal feelings have no place in regards to what content the server launches with. The only consideration is timeline accuracy.

Seriously, I have interest in this discussion. Enjoy your accurate timeline.

DMN
10-12-2019, 05:58 PM
I don't really view a two Necromancer and four Magician group as a tragedy. Thank you for your prayers.:)

Wait till I get the archive of my old guild's message board. Might find out necro and mages both had to research all their 24+ pets.

And we still don't know if the 4 mobs/pets attacking same target cap will be in or not.

sciception
10-12-2019, 06:03 PM
Wait till I get the archive of my old guild's message board. Might find out necro and mages both had to research all their 24+ pets.

And we still don't know if the 4 mobs/pets attacking same target cap will be in or not.

I've already conceded the argument. Don't you have other things to do? I see lots of unauthentic developments on the forums. Here is an announcement that clearly violates your principles.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335971

How dare they!

DMN
10-12-2019, 06:08 PM
I've already conceded the argument. Don't you have other things to do? I see lots of unauthentic developments on the forums. Here is an announcement that clearly violates your principles.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335971

How dare they!

It's kinda creepy that is actually my old guildie from fennin. What are the chances?

sciception
10-12-2019, 06:13 PM
It's kinda creepy that is actually my old guildie from fennin. What are the chances?

I joined a Discord channel the other day with a dozen or so names I haven't seen in years. I'm pretty psyched about playing with those guys again.

bivouac
10-12-2019, 06:39 PM
I edited down the spdat files from my Classic/Kunark discs to compare to the alt.games post.

This first link compares the 2-16-99 spdat referenced earlier in the thread to the 5-20-99 post. (https://www.diffchecker.com/gntczCTC)
Mostly seems like stuff that just wasn't ready when discs were printed.

The second compares 5-20-99 to a 3-14-00 spdat from the Kunark disc. (https://www.diffchecker.com/ZZG68Oo9)
Some more interesting differences to be seen here. Of course Clarity/Insight, but also Berserker Spirit in place of Soul Bond, which reads like it was another tier of Alliance/Collab. Shrink, Bonds of Force, ResurrectionEffects?? all seem to be after May 99.

I didn't start playing until early 2000, so maybe some of these things are well known. Anyway, I can't wait for Green!

bubur
10-12-2019, 06:45 PM
oof i sense a can of worms being picked open right about now

we gonna need some more info on those animation pets, bonds of force, necro mez, mage pet procs

Secrets
10-12-2019, 07:16 PM
944, 945, 946 in that second diff made me chuckle a bit.

Considering that statement that Geoffrey Z. left in the file is a half truth - most of it was hidden behind formulas, so he's not wrong but he's not right either.

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 08:06 PM
Screaming Terror isn't added until July 1999, as compensation for Verant removing charm/beguile from necros.

Already have a bug open for the mage pet (and necro pet) procs.

The ench animations I am actually not aware of. They did have pets at release though, I see comments about them in the mailing lists.

sciception
10-12-2019, 08:22 PM
Screaming Terror isn't added until July 1999, as compensation for Verant removing charm/beguile from necros.

Already have a bug open for the mage pet (and necro pet) procs.

The ench animations I am actually not aware of. They did have pets at release though, I see comments about them in the mailing lists.

Are you saying that Necro's will get the ability to Charm live mobs but have an additional fear instead of the 3 tick mesmerize?

fastboy21
10-12-2019, 11:20 PM
I suspect that part of the confusion of memory is that since clarity is a level 29 spell and it used to take players a considerable amount of time to level there are many enchanters (even that started on launch day) that would never have realized clarity wasn't in game until after launch because when they finally got to 29 it had already been added in...not to mention that folks simply didn't even know the names of their own class spells yet, let alone the buffs they wanted to ask for by name from another class.

Master Roshi
10-12-2019, 11:41 PM
Clarity is classic, and you have to realize people didn't even know what it did at first, it wasn't apparent at first. I remember people thinking Quickness was the enchanter version of SoW, because the spell message was "you feel faster"

Pre-google and all that, folks had to figure it all out on their own.

DMN
10-12-2019, 11:44 PM
Are you saying that Necro's will get the ability to Charm live mobs but have an additional fear instead of the 3 tick mesmerize?

Necro's *should* get a charm series, which should stay for several months. Then the series will be removed and a month later the original iteration of screaming terror will be introduced. This version was affectionally nicknamed "screaming train", as that is what it often brought on necros who didn't know quite how it worked. It was a short duration fear with an extremely high memory wipe chance(possibly 100%). Eventually this will be replaced by the ST that exists now on blue.

Dolalin
10-13-2019, 12:12 AM
Not 100% DMN, I saw a patch message to that effect in the patch history.

Vokhine
10-13-2019, 02:39 AM
Are Enchanters getting OP classic version of Whirl Till You Hurl ? :D

sciception
10-13-2019, 07:39 AM
So, did the pre-Beta testers level up without Clarity, because I clearly saw in it game last night.

DMN
10-13-2019, 07:46 AM
So, did the pre-Beta testers level up without Clarity, because I clearly saw in it game last night.

What do you mean by "pre-beta tester". and some enchanters hit 29 last night? got any names. I think that'd be completely impossible without abusing an exploit.

Sillyturtle
10-13-2019, 07:56 AM
What do you mean by "pre-beta tester". and some enchanters hit 29 last night? got any names. I think that'd be completely impossible without abusing an exploit.

Is clarity storebought?

Because I was able to check the scrolls for Charm and Beguile and that's how I knew Shamans and Necro's weren't getting it, which was confirmed by Rogean and then Nilbog in my bug thread.

Maybe the person cehcked the scroll and since it's in game made a guess.

Dolalin
10-13-2019, 07:58 AM
There is 10x xp active on the Beta server. There is probably a 50 by now.

Sillyturtle
10-13-2019, 08:04 AM
There is 10x xp active on the Beta server. There is probably a 50 by now.

Highest I saw a few hours ago was a 13.

Spacebar
10-13-2019, 09:29 AM
Is clarity storebought?

Because I was able to check the scrolls for Charm and Beguile and that's how I knew Shamans and Necro's weren't getting it, which was confirmed by Rogean and then Nilbog in my bug thread.

Maybe the person cehcked the scroll and since it's in game made a guess.

Clarity is store bought. I saw it last night in the high elf enchanter guild area. Was actually specifically going to see if it was in game based on this thread.

sciception
10-13-2019, 02:25 PM
What do you mean by "pre-beta tester". and some enchanters hit 29 last night? got any names. I think that'd be completely impossible without abusing an exploit.

Where are you reading about a 29 Enchanter? How do you not know what pre-beta is(Alpha)? Just go look at a vendor man, Clarity is there.

sciception
10-13-2019, 02:27 PM
I don't know maybe closed beta is easier?

DMN
10-13-2019, 02:38 PM
Where are you reading about a 29 Enchanter? How do you not know what pre-beta is(Alpha)? Just go look at a vendor man, Clarity is there.

if you meant "alpha" you'd have said alpha. You didn't. not that alpha makes any sense, much like the rest of your post. And if you meant people were not getting this spell cast on them you'd have used a completely different phrasing for the "existence" of clarity as it related to beta testers.

sciception
10-13-2019, 03:12 PM
Pre-Beta e.g anything before this beta, since what we are playing is "beta." Common man, nobody is that dense. You have to be trolling me.

DMN
10-13-2019, 03:17 PM
Pre-Beta e.g anything before this beta, since what we are playing is "beta."


That's not what an alpha is. You can't even keep your BS straight.


Common man, nobody is that dense. You have to be trolling me.

I'm not the one who doesn't understand basic English and can't write simple sentences.

sciception
10-13-2019, 03:24 PM
That's not what an alpha is. You can't even keep your BS straight.



I'm not the one who doesn't understand basic English and can't write simple sentences.

I was wrong. There are people that dense.