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skorge
10-06-2019, 08:28 AM
My first character ever, made on launch day of EQ, was a human mage. This was the only character I played until I got him to level 24. I leveled fairly quickly but not as fast as the high-elf mage in Fires of Heaven (on Veeshan server) did. He was a few levels higher than me.

This was back in era where GMs had to come to you in person and give you your surname once you reached level 20 and then shout it out to the world, so the whole server can know your surname.

Mages back then sucked.

I read it here by someone else but mage pets had no abilities back then. I can't remember this for sure but I want to say the Earth pet did have a few more hps, so most mages just used Earth pet back then.

The worst thing about mages is there was no way you could get a pet past level 20, as research was not in the game at the time and the vendor who sold pets at these levels, did not sell pet spells. It was a huge thing Verant screwed up on mages to the point where I stopped playing my mage at level 24. Trying to play with the level 20 pet was frustrating.

I proceeded to make a shaman and never looked back.

So, I ask this question, will P99 implement broken mages on launch? I really hope they do as I think this will be true to classic and potentially reduce the number of people planning to make mages to steamroll thru content. Mages during this time period SUCKED. I think P99 should hold true to this. I am not sure on the patch that fixed pets but it had to be at least 2-3 months after launch minimum.

zaneosak
10-06-2019, 08:30 AM
I do not think they are re-living "broken" things or "omitted things" that actually make the game not playable, but I could be wrong. I see no evidence in the patch notes for p99 going back that reseach was not in the game at P99 launch. Remember blue's timeline of events was a 10 year test for Green to figure out how to make each era happen, so they could make green and re-create the original timeline with the same months/years between patches/expansions.

I doubt there will be a "2 months of no research" era. But maybe I am wrong.

Niedar
10-06-2019, 08:40 AM
Sounds like fake news.

skorge
10-06-2019, 08:50 AM
Sounds like fake news.

Does it really? Considering how many flaws EQ had. Does it not surprise you that this is true? I literally played a mage from launch until 24. It was so bad I stopped playing him at 24 and never touched him again.

I don't even think rogues had abilities in-game at launch...lots of things Verant missed/screwed up, not thinking people would level so fast.

Most of you probably don't even remember GMs/Guides having to come to you in person when you hit level 20 and give you a surname and shout it out for the whole server to know.

Daldaen
10-06-2019, 09:31 AM
While interesting you need to find some patch notes indicating these things at specific era markers.

This patch note did catch my eye though

October 1999 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19991013.html)
The Burnout Series (Magicians) has had the negative HP component reduced (improvement) and the stat buff increased (improvement). Because of this, the spells are no longer permanent. They now have a 15 minute duration. Burnout III has also had its casting cost reduced.

Turns out Burnout line used to be permanent and decrease pet HP/had lower offensive properties. This definitely would hurt a solo mages Power.

skorge
10-06-2019, 09:37 AM
While interesting you need to find some patch notes indicating these things at specific era markers.

This patch note did catch my eye though

October 1999 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19991013.html)


Turns out Burnout line used to be permanent and decrease pet HP/had lower offensive properties. This definitely would hurt a solo mages Power.

Thank you! I have spent some time trying to find anything from around this time period (June 1999) and have failed...I can't find much EQ anything before 10/99 on the internet.

Daldaen
10-06-2019, 09:55 AM
I know the original EQ stuff is very difficult to find notes on sadly so it’s unlikely we can replicate it.

You first needed an interested fan base to create websites then you could finally get wayback archives of those websites. That didn’t really happen until the early 2000 months. 1999 info is quite rare to come across.

I won’t disagree that it’s likely Mage pets were bad, pet spells post 20 didn’t exist and research didn’t function. But we need evidence to make this reality.

metatron
10-06-2019, 11:20 AM
necro pets also used the atk speed of weps you gave them not sure if that is fixed

FishBait01
10-06-2019, 11:21 AM
My first character ever, made on launch day of EQ, was a human mage. This was the only character I played until I got him to level 24. I leveled fairly quickly but not as fast as the high-elf mage in Fires of Heaven (on Veeshan server) did. He was a few levels higher than me.

This was back in era where GMs had to come to you in person and give you your surname once you reached level 20 and then shout it out to the world, so the whole server can know your surname.

Mages back then sucked.

I read it here by someone else but mage pets had no abilities back then. I can't remember this for sure but I want to say the Earth pet did have a few more hps, so most mages just used Earth pet back then.

The worst thing about mages is there was no way you could get a pet past level 20, as research was not in the game at the time and the vendor who sold pets at these levels, did not sell pet spells. It was a huge thing Verant screwed up on mages to the point where I stopped playing my mage at level 24. Trying to play with the level 20 pet was frustrating.

I proceeded to make a shaman and never looked back.

So, I ask this question, will P99 implement broken mages on launch? I really hope they do as I think this will be true to classic and potentially reduce the number of people planning to make mages to steamroll thru content. Mages during this time period SUCKED. I think P99 should hold true to this. I am not sure on the patch that fixed pets but it had to be at least 2-3 months after launch minimum.


This is a really dumb request

Chortles Snort|eS
10-06-2019, 11:22 AM
mages are OP and should be nerfed on launch
thanks

metatron
10-06-2019, 11:48 AM
mages were shit and necros only needed them for their summoned weapons to give to the necro pet, why does no one else want to remember this

Mblake81
10-06-2019, 02:21 PM
necro pets also used the atk speed of weps you gave them not sure if that is fixed

Just want to add my unverifiable 2 cents on this. I remember my Guild leader talking about that.. "if you want to be humbled /duel a necro pet that has mage summoned daggers"

Baler
10-06-2019, 02:27 PM
wow this thread is hot garbage

Mages can level to 50 & 60 NAKED

Early days on green there will be a massive limitation on gearing. Add to that no kunark and no velious.

Mages are super great at launch

OP just doesn't like the class. Fine I get that but don't make up bs to push fake ideas.
I understand magician isn't for everyone, they have to reply on the strongest summoned pets in the game.

Mages at launch will have the strongest starting game because they don't require gear to progress further faster.

Erudite is the best starting mage race because it has a best Int giving more mana pool and any gear you add onto that will give you a huge advantage over every other race period. People seem to forget on purpose that classic gear isn't readily available or all that great.

This isn't velious people. You aren't going to be maxxing out stats yet.

deadlycupcakez
10-06-2019, 02:48 PM
wow this thread is hot garbage

Mages can level to 50 & 60 NAKED

Early days on green there will be a massive limitation on gearing. Add to that no kunark and no velious.

Mages are super great at launch

OP just doesn't like the class. Fine I get that but don't make up bs to push fake ideas.
I understand magician isn't for everyone, they have to reply on the strongest summoned pets in the game.

Mages at launch will have the strongest starting game because they don't require gear to progress further faster.

Erudite is the best starting mage race because it has a best Int giving more mana pool and any gear you add onto that will give you a huge advantage over every other race period. People seem to forget on purpose that classic gear isn't readily available or all that great.

This isn't velious people. You aren't going to be maxxing out stats yet.

Someone’s gone off the deep end this morning

soronil
10-06-2019, 02:54 PM
Mages back then sucked.


cool story. prove it.

Tenlaar
10-06-2019, 03:00 PM
Erudite is the best starting mage race because it has a best Int giving more mana pool and any gear you add onto that will give you a huge advantage over every other race period. People seem to forget on purpose that classic gear isn't readily available or all that great.[/I]

This is bad advice. The slightly higher int of the Erudite means very little for mages compared to, once Kunark drops, the ability to easily make use of Eye + CoTH.

So you should say "Erudite is the best race for a mage if you plan to quit before Kunark. Otherwise gnome is the best choice."

Palemoon
10-06-2019, 03:08 PM
We are gonna be in classic for a year, so not all issues can be invalidated by Kunark. A year is a long long time.

Baler
10-06-2019, 03:10 PM
Tenlaar this is a LAUNCH thread. sorry you wont have a good day 1 on green.

the_only_jake
10-06-2019, 03:42 PM
One thing I remember playing in beta on live and at launch as a wizard with a mage RL friend was that their summon spells didn't always use malachite , I remember them costing more increasingly expensive regents. That is one thing that might slow them down in a way they are not on blue. Also Invis was able to be cast on anyone , even those outside your group. I remember in the lawless days "helping" mages who were engaged with mobs I wanted to kill with this spell until they left the area or ran out of gems to summon their OP pets with =)

soronil
10-06-2019, 03:46 PM
This is bad advice. The slightly higher int of the Erudite means very little for mages compared to, once Kunark drops, the ability to easily make use of Eye + CoTH.

sorry, i'm a noob. What Eye?

Baler
10-06-2019, 03:49 PM
sorry, i'm a noob. What Eye?

http://wiki.project1999.com/Eye_of_Zomm

The most exploited spell on p99 ever.

1. Shrink the mage fully (10 Dose Ant's Potion (http://wiki.project1999.com/Ant_Legs))
2. Mage stands tight against a wall facing it and casts Eye of Zomm
3. The eye will appear at zone in, not at the mage.
4. The mage see's through the eye so they can target players at zone in
5. mage invites players to their group whom are at zone in
6. mage casts call of the hero on the newly invite players to their location (raid)
7. repeat as needed until the whole raid force is at the raid.

It's a classic EXPLOIT but it's still an EXPLOIT.
Cough staff have said they can't enforce it. Cough

Pets are summoned just a little bit in front of the player. And when out of bounds it gets sent to zone in.

Jimjam
10-06-2019, 03:52 PM
Eye of zomm. Mages cast it through a bracelet click.

It is used to target people far away and then teleport that person to the mage with call of hero.

Gnomes can glitch the eye to spawn at a certain point in a zone by using an exploit. Ban all gnomes.

Surely a dedicated erud could just shrink pot for coth/eye glitch?

the_only_jake
10-06-2019, 03:55 PM
sorry, i'm a noob. What Eye?

Being a Gnome , or using a shrink potion facing a wall and summoning an eye of zomm into an area outside the game. The game doesn't understand where that location is so it drops the eye to the safe spot in a zone where Succor or Evac spells take you, allowing mages to park in some pretty nice places summon an eyeball and pull entire raid groups to a safe spot very close to a raid bosses lair bypassing the need to fight your way though a dungeon to get to the boss.

Dolalin
10-06-2019, 03:57 PM
Eyes of Zomm that are summoned in the wall should, classically, appear at a random place in the zone, not just at the zonein. I have a bug thread about this.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323035&highlight=zomm

Tenlaar
10-06-2019, 03:59 PM
Yes, an erudite can use shrink potions or get a shrink. I don't think that a few extra points of int are nearly enough to justify the extra difficulty and expense for what will be a primary function of mages later on.

This may be about LAUNCH, but the first few months aren't all that will matter to people when they are starting a character. Kunark will drop, and CoTHing will be around for more than half the life of the server. You're talking about a 9 int difference between Erudite and Gnome. That means practically nothing for how a mage actually plays.

Baler
10-06-2019, 04:01 PM
Tenlaar it is about launch. Erudite INT is the best race for Mage on LAUNCH.
Don't lie to people telling them something that isn't true.

->By the time kunark rolls around, guilds will be power leveling every class in the game to be used as guild characters.
->Guilds will just power level mages to park at every raid zone so they can exploit the eye.

In classic Mage is very powerful and Erudite is the best race for it.

This post is as real as it gets.

Tenlaar
10-06-2019, 04:03 PM
Acknowledging that the 9 extra points of int mean nothing compared to an advantage that will come around a bit later is not "pushing a fake agenda." Good grief, get over yourself.

Tenlaar
10-06-2019, 04:04 PM
Besides, gnomes have tinkering, something that no other race can get. So I'd say that also makes gnomes the best race for mage on LAUNCH.

Baler
10-06-2019, 04:10 PM
You're still failing to understand this is a launch thread.

Erudite is the min/max for Mage in >>classic era<<.

This isn't about kunark or velious. Please see my last post for details.
AND YES MORE INT IS BETTER BECAUSE IN CLASSIC THERE AREN'T VERY MANY HIGH STAT ITEMS.
Kunark and Velious has rotted your way of thinking. Green wont be a twink fest like it is on blue.

Starting race will matter a whole lot more on green. Extra main stats will be the difference between surviving or dieing.

I await your reply where you plug your ears and go "lalala baler you're wrong". While ignoring the truth.

skorge
10-06-2019, 04:54 PM
OP just doesn't like the class. Fine I get that but don't make up bs to push fake ideas. I understand magician isn't for everyone, they have to reply on the strongest summoned pets in the game.

Mages at launch will have the strongest starting game because they don't require gear to progress[I] further faster

Nice try, but it appears that I am not the only one who remembers this. Also, Baler, what class did you play April 1999 - June 1999? Lol, don't lie. If you played a mage you would know I am right.

I recall that lower level mage pets didn't actually cast spells. in fact, i think it wasn't until the pets were level 30ish that they started to cast spells. Eventually they patched in the ability for lower pets to use them down the line, but in vanilla for a period of time they didn't cast any spells.

One of my best friends back then played a mage the first month or so after release and he was always complaining about having no idea why he was wasting plat on 4 pets when they all seemed to be virtually identical

Then one day in sol b his new pet started rooting shit (which really pissed me off because i was on snaring duty. )

From: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2970515#post2970515
(https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2970515#post2970515)

I may not be able to provide hard concrete proof as the search for early patches is super hard to find, but I can still look.

skorge
10-06-2019, 04:56 PM
Another quote:

You can read a post from Brad himself about the QoL improvements made and it mentions making mage pets cast earlier on, so I think OP is right but not enough patch note evidence to counter all this anecdotal BS

Niedar
10-06-2019, 05:42 PM
Nice try, but it appears that I am not the only one who remembers this. Also, Baler, what class did you play April 1999 - June 1999? Lol, don't lie. If you played a mage you would know I am right.



From: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2970515#post2970515
(https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2970515#post2970515)

I may not be able to provide hard concrete proof as the search for early patches is super hard to find, but I can still look.


Stop spreading fake news, come back when you have facts.

Cen
10-06-2019, 05:59 PM
Gnome magicians are min max. Erudite mages trade all the amazing stats, sex appeal, and other various non described here benefits of being a gnome for a few points of intelligence which does very little for a magician. Also wide heads are generally more robust then tall heads.

Mblake81
10-07-2019, 05:06 AM
->By the time kunark rolls around, guilds will be power leveling every class in the game to be used as guild characters.
->Guilds will just power level mages to park at every raid zone so they can exploit the eye.
.[/U]

Best time to play Green99 is original era before Kunark drops. Might be all I play it for.

Tenlaar
10-07-2019, 12:25 PM
You're still failing to understand this is a launch thread.

Erudite is the min/max for Mage in >>classic era<<.

This isn't about kunark or velious. Please see my last post for details.
AND YES MORE INT IS BETTER BECAUSE IN CLASSIC THERE AREN'T VERY MANY HIGH STAT ITEMS.
Kunark and Velious has rotted your way of thinking. Green wont be a twink fest like it is on blue.

Starting race will matter a whole lot more on green. Extra main stats will be the difference between surviving or dieing.

I await your reply where you plug your ears and go "lalala baler you're wrong". While ignoring the truth.

That 9 base int, even at level 50, makes a mana pool difference of, what, maybe 30% of the cost of ONE level 49 nuke? You are greatly exaggerating the benefit of it while discounting any others. IF somebody only plans to play their mage during classic and then quit before Kunark comes out and IF they don't want access to a tradeskill that no other race can do and IF they don't mind starting in about the worst place to start in a world with no porters? Sure, Erudite is a good choice. But stop acting like Erudite is by far the clear winner, hands down, period. Because it's not.

By the way, Gnomes can start with a little bit higher strength than Erudites can because they don't need to invest 5 starting points into Agility to get it to 75.

It's not just a clear cut "9 int higher MEANS EVERYTHING!"

Glasken
10-07-2019, 01:59 PM
...

By the way, Gnomes can start with a little bit higher strength than Erudites can because they don't need to invest 5 starting points into Agility to get it to 75.

It's not just a clear cut "9 int higher MEANS EVERYTHING!"

And just to add a bit more to your point...eBoots, which will be on the market within a month if not sooner, are +9 INT. While racial choice in classic was more important than say, Velious, for most classes, it still isnt vital to be able to have a strong, well-played character.

Also, not having to constantly rely on items to mitigate or eliminate the creeping darkness of the world is a plus. Classic nightvision is gonna mess with SO many people who are used to the high-gamma world of P99Blue.


To add a personal anecdote and opinion:
Back on classic, my first character was a human paladin. Found my way into Nektolus around level 10. No candle.

Could. Not. See. ANYTHING except my UI. Increasing gamma just made the inky blacks a little more gray.

Gnome for Wallvision(TM). Dark Elf for Ultravision. Leave the rest where they lay.

Dolalin
10-07-2019, 02:06 PM
I read several newsgroup posts today about how Research was broken at the launch of EQ and Magicians couldn't research their high level pets. Recall seeing the same for necros.

I don't think they are planning to recreate that sort of brokenness though.

Jungleberry
10-07-2019, 02:28 PM
I read several newsgroup posts today about how Research was broken at the launch of EQ and Magicians couldn't research their high level pets. Recall seeing the same for necros.

I don't think they are planning to recreate that sort of brokenness though.

I hope not but it remains to be seen. Haven't seen any official word.

Tenlaar
10-07-2019, 02:45 PM
Gnome for Wallvision(TM). Dark Elf for Ultravision. Leave the rest where they lay.

I've actually been struggling to ignore the desire to get a gnome mage to the point that he can get a guise so that I can have WallVision or use the mask for both ultravision and being taller in some areas with a lot of steps. I love mages but I've leveled a gnome mage to 59 on blue and I don't feel like I'm going to be any more likely to end up with an epic pet on green so I'm telling myself I should play something different.

bum3
10-07-2019, 05:11 PM
My wife used to play a gnome mage on classic... she fell through the world a few times doing the wall trick to CoTH people... So make sure you have a back up CoTHer.

Jadian
10-07-2019, 05:30 PM
Eye of zomm. Mages cast it through a bracelet click.

It is used to target people far away and then teleport that person to the mage with call of hero.

Gnomes can glitch the eye to spawn at a certain point in a zone by using an exploit. Ban all gnomes.

Surely a dedicated erud could just shrink pot for coth/eye glitch?

It's not a gnome thing (unless it was changed) you just needed to have the wall on your left side but any race could do it fine.

Jadian
10-07-2019, 05:39 PM
And just to add a bit more to your point...eBoots, which will be on the market within a month if not sooner, are +9 INT. While racial choice in classic was more important than say, Velious, for most classes, it still isnt vital to be able to have a strong, well-played character.

Also, not having to constantly rely on items to mitigate or eliminate the creeping darkness of the world is a plus. Classic nightvision is gonna mess with SO many people who are used to the high-gamma world of P99Blue.


To add a personal anecdote and opinion:
Back on classic, my first character was a human paladin. Found my way into Nektolus around level 10. No candle.

Could. Not. See. ANYTHING except my UI. Increasing gamma just made the inky blacks a little more gray.

Gnome for Wallvision(TM). Dark Elf for Ultravision. Leave the rest where they lay.

Eboots are like THE high end trading item for months on a new server. Acting like you can just go EC and buy a pair for any new char is laughable.

Chaplain
10-07-2019, 05:44 PM
Few things, first I was a mage in Oct 1999, the pet spells you are saying where not in the game, where in the game in strange locations like the Ocean of Tears. One pet, I do believe it was 24 was research only. After that though 28+could still be bought though it was only one of the four at any given level until I think 48? was research only don't quote me on that.

No that is said, mages OP? No, a naked bard with a drum and brass horn will out EXP us and be more useful in a group. Same goes for Necro's, druids, and several other classes. As a mage I found the best thing to do since most groups didn't want me and at least 30% of the time didn't let me summon a pet, was to out door dou with a Necro. Mages are 'Okay' solo but shine with another mage and one or two necro's. The power of pets is DRAMATICALLY better the more pet classes that team up to fear kite. So if you have an SO and one of you want to role a mage, one of you should consider Necro/Druid/Cleric/Shaman/Mage for the partner.

Glasken
10-07-2019, 10:21 PM
Eboots are like THE high end trading item for months on a new server. Acting like you can just go EC and buy a pair for any new char is laughable.


Needless, they are still something that will be available. And we are only talking 90 mana here at level 50 if you somehow dont hit the softcap by then.

Erudites, especially with junk darkvision, are gonna be a painful way to play. Maybe if we want hardmode, but they are FAR from the min/max option, especially when gnomes exist.

Baler
10-07-2019, 10:24 PM
People continue to make poor posts.
just let this ignorant thread die already.

Also I already posted detailed instructions on the eye of zomm exploit
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2977545&postcount=21

I swear im handing knowledge away and people are refusing to take it for no good reason.
---
Erudites, especially with junk darkvision
All mages have ultravision
https://wiki.project1999.com/Summoned:_Coldstone

Most people won't hit the soft cap on INT in classic. y'all need to educate yourself, this is not kunark or velious we're talking about.

Vizax_Xaziv
10-07-2019, 11:37 PM
Eboots are like THE high end trading item for months on a new server. Acting like you can just go EC and buy a pair for any new char is laughable.

OMG someone else who uses the term "Eboots!'. Thats what we called on my server on live but everyone else seems to call em GEBS here.

Vizax_Xaziv
10-08-2019, 01:15 AM
All mages have ultravision
https://wiki.project1999.com/Summoned:_Coldstone

Most people won't hit the soft cap on INT in classic. y'all need to educate yourself, this is not kunark or velious we're talking about.

Oh man forgot about that summoned item! The ability to summon actually useful ITEMS like that is what made me fall in love with Mages during Classic. Night vision necklaces, Lev rings, EB stones. All kinda different weapons etc. I could see Mages sitting in EC on Green making a bit of coin summoning items for players.

Does anyone remember when Mages could actually summon bags full of ARMOR as well?

It's a shame Verant moved away from that aspect of the Class so quickly.

Tenlaar
10-08-2019, 09:47 AM
People continue to make poor posts.
just let this ignorant thread die already.

Also I already posted detailed instructions on the eye of zomm exploit
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2977545&postcount=21

I swear im handing knowledge away and people are refusing to take it for no good reason.
---

All mages have ultravision
https://wiki.project1999.com/Summoned:_Coldstone

Most people won't hit the soft cap on INT in classic. y'all need to educate yourself, this is not kunark or velious we're talking about.

It would be awesome if you could stop acting like you are some benevolent master of magicianry here to educate the poor, unwashed and ignorant masses. What you're saying is not the be all, end all of playing a magician, and as you might have noticed, you are the only person here acting like Erudite is far and away the best option. Because it isn't.

You're talking about a less than 100 difference in total mana pool at level 50.

DMN
10-08-2019, 09:59 AM
I think you need to be shrunk to do it with a non gnome. Probably not a big deal unless that's all you ever plan to do with the character is CoH people around.

Erudites have the stats, dark elf has hide, gnomes get all the chicks.

Pope Hat
10-08-2019, 11:25 AM
It would be awesome if you could stop acting like you are some benevolent master of magicianry here to educate the poor, unwashed and ignorant masses.

You have obviously not read many of his posts...

Dolalin
10-08-2019, 12:42 PM
What is a Magician you Ask?
By Geoffrey Zatkin, Lead Magic Designer for Verant

I've been getting some e-mail/feedback recently from a group of dissatisfied magicians as to how underpowered their class is. I'd like to take a few moments to address this. Please realize that because of our intense work schedule at Verant, this is a purely FYI kind of thing.

PETS

Now, I keep hearing Magicians wonder why their pets are weaker than Necromancer Pets. Simple answer - they are not. Magician pets, on the whole, have better ability scores, and in some cases, more HP than Necromancer pets. They also average one level higher (which means more hp, better attacks, etc). The problem is that most Magicians don't experiment with the different pet types, assuming that summoning a Fire Elemental is the same as a Water Elemental.
Time for a little explanation on the four types of magician pets.

The Earth Elemental is the elemental that you want to be using for serious battles. It has THE most hp of any pet. It also has a massive strength (about equal to an Ogre). Earth elementals deal THE most damage of any pet. Their weakness is that their Agility bites. They will get hit by anything swinging at them.

The Air Elemental is the elemental that you want tanking for you. It has an incredible high agility, making it much harder to hit than any other elemental. It has good strength (about equal to a Barbarian). It deals good damage, is hard to hit, and has the invisibility ability. This means you can use "/pet back off" to good effect. The Air Elemental backs off, and assuming that monster does not follow (it goes after another party member), the Air Elemental will turn invisible, guaranteeing that it will not be hit while it heals up.

The Fire Elemental is the elemental you want to use against creatures with very quick attacks (Bixies) or against massive amounts of smaller creatures (clearing away the hall trash). Fire Elementals have good strength (about equal to a Barbarian) and good agility (about equal to an elf). They have the least HP of any elemental, but compensate with an innate Fire Shield that damages an attacker every time the attacker hits the elemental. This means that a creature is getting hit by the elemental AND taking damage every time they hit the elemental.

Water Elementals are the composite elemental - they combine a little bit of the best of all of the other elementals. Their strength is second only to an Earth Elemental (about equal to a Troll), their agility is good (about as good as an elf) and their HP are just under that of an Earth Elemental. They are the 'balanced' elemental. Water Elementals also heal faster than any other elemental.

Now, the Skeleton is a very good pet as well. Its strength is lower than any of the Elementals, but it has a good agility (about equal to an elf). Its hp fall between that of an Earth and Water elemental. What it is lacking is the massive strength of other elementals, and the special abilities gained by certain elementals. It also lacks the versatility gained by having four different elementals.

Another issue that magicians (and necromancers and enchanters) complain about is that their pets always con blue / green to them. Now, you will notice that at higher levels, monsters get more hp / damage than a player of the same level. For example, a 35th level Warrior or Wizard could not solo a 35th level Griffin, were a 8th level Warrior or Wizard could solo a 8th level Gnoll. Monster levels are not the same as player levels. Monster levels are better. Now, pets use monster levels. That is why, at higher levels, your pet cons green to you. I will be putting in some changes soon to make it so they con 'better' to you - not green, but blue. There will be no actual changes made to pets other than perception.

The range at which pets respond to commands from their casters has just been doubled. This should help Magicians (and all other pet classes) to keep their pets in line.

One final note on pet summoning. You will NOT get the same power of pet with every summoning. If a pet seems particularly weak to you, you may want to reclaim energy on it and summon another.

SUMMONED ITEMS

Summoning items is one of the magician's unique abilities. Some items are better than others - and all are based on our hard worked concepts of game balance. If a Magician could summon items that were BETTER than the norm for her level, our game would quickly be overrun by a horde of phantom items. This being said, we have retuned our items many times, and it is quite possible that that Magician items missed a final tuning. I will double check this - but regardless, Magicians can summon MAGIC weapons (weapons that hit wisps, ice-boned skeletons, etc) for relatively little mana. This is a nice ability.
There are also several hidden spells out there, waiting for players to find. Once a certain number of these have been found, they will be available from magician vendors. I'm not saying where they are or what they are… but they are nice…

ARMOR

Magician's Phantom Armor series now stacks with the Shielding spells. This change should be in as you read this. This gives Magicians the best personal armor spells of any Magi class.

DIRECT DAMAGE

Of the four Magi classes (Wizard, Magician, Enchanter and Necromancer), Wizards have the best direct damage. The second best direct damage is done by the Magicians. Third best is Necromancers, and last are the Enchanters. Magicians also get ranged area effect direct damage spells, spells wielded only by the Wizard, Druid and Magician classes. They also get damage shields, combat spells that have no saving throw (since you cast it on a player, a monster never gets a saving throw). This means that a Magician can indirectly effect a monster many level higher then her - something that not many other spell casters can do.

RESEARCH

All research materials for Magicians are in the game. The frequency of the appearance of all research components has been increased by 300%. Instructions on research can be found in your guild hall, in several of the tomes sold by your guild merchant.

IN CONCLUSION

Magicians have the best pets and the second best direct damage of any Magi class. For pure damage done, Magicians can rival any wizard - between the damage of their pet and the damage of their spells. It is always tempting to think that your class is the least powerful - watching another class doing something in their specialty can make them seem 'better' then your class. This is just 'grass is always greener' syndrome - we saw a lot of this in Beta. I have played each class up to a respectable level, and can tell you that the Magician is an extremely viable class. Magicians are not going to be 'retuned,' as they are extremely viable.
What you can look to see is an expansion of Magician summoning items / toys / etc. spells as they are 'found' in the game. I'm not going to drop any big hints, but there are some interesting things out there that have not yet been found.

I hope this helps a little bit on getting a grasp on the Magician. I have a Magician in my party, and let me tell you - she rocks!


http://web.archive.org/web/19991005071700/http://eq.stratics.com/classes_mag_dis.shtml

Muggens
10-08-2019, 09:19 PM
Having never really played a magician, reading those elemental pet descriptions have me a tiny bit confused...

"The Earth Elemental is the elemental that you want to be using for serious battles. It has THE most hp of any pet... Their weakness is that their Agility bites. They will get hit by anything swinging at them."

Serious Battles?

"The Air Elemental is the elemental that you want tanking for you. It has an incredible high agility, making it much harder to hit than any other elemental."

This is the tank elemental? Not Earth pet?

"Water Elementals are the composite elemental - they combine a little bit of the best of all of the other elementals. Their strength is second only to an Earth Elemental (about equal to a Troll), their agility is good (about as good as an elf) and their HP are just under that of an Earth Elemental. They are the 'balanced' elemental. Water Elementals also heal faster than any other elemental."

Sounds to me like the best option?




Aaand the guys on this forum mostly speak about the using Fire Pet for soloing...

So now I really dont know which pet to use!

metatron
10-09-2019, 10:21 AM
it still comes down to that necro pets could equip weapons and double atk/duel wield and mage pets could not. quad 55 necro pet attacks on 2ish dagger delay plus haste was amazing at launch in classic.

Baler
10-09-2019, 10:22 AM
this thread torments me in my sleep. it has so much Bad and some good information.
It's literally a classic thread. Where some people had no idea what they were talking about.

skorge
10-09-2019, 10:42 AM
From https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/rubicite$20armor|sort:date/alt.games.everquest/cxEDqD40_do/sqXbyyrSCBoJ

Several members of the EQ team, with some initial help from a player's
email, put the following document together listing both enhancements and
'nerfs' we've made to the game since launch. And while we probably forgot
some things, both negative and positive (please let us know and I'll update
the document), I think it puts in perspective the ratio of positive vs.
negative changes to the game we've made. I also feel it heartily
invalidates the assertion that we are out to make the game harder or to have
players advance slower overall, or that 'all we do is nerf'.
The following is broken down by class, and then addresses those changes made
that affect the whole game. Changes we feel are positive from just about any
perspective are denoted with a '+', and those some players might consider a
'nerf', but that we felt were important for the long term health of the
game, are denoted with a '-'.

(again, I'm sure we've forgotten some things, both '+' and '-'; please feel
free to comment and add items).


Magicians
+ New summon item spells
- High Level (39+) Pets weakened
+ Better mid+ level pets (they cast spells now)
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+ Magician Pet Buff Spells Strengthened
+ Enhanced Pet Pathing
+ Added Special Items to let Magicians Summon Stronger Pets
+ Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
through your pet
+ Made Magician Research Easier - especially for their pets
+ Added Spell Effects to most Magician Summoned Items
+ Enhanced AoE Spells to let Magicians effect more creatures
+ Reduced Mana Cost of Damage Shields
+ Reduced Casting Time of Ward Series
+ Made the Malise Series Stack Better
+ Made the Burnout Series Better

-Brad

Listen, the above list from Brad himself tells you that mid level pets did NOT cast spells. Unless you want to argue against the guy who created Everquest, then stop posting non-sense comments such as "False News." According to the above, this list shows actual enhancements made to the class stated by Brad himself in 1999.

Thus, Green P99 should start out classic with mage pets not being able to cast spells up until a certain patch. Now continue to read below from http://web.archive.org/web/19991005071700/http://eq.stratics.com/classes_mag_dis.shtml:


What is a Magician you Ask?
By Geoffrey Zatkin, Lead Magic Designer for Verant

I've been getting some e-mail/feedback recently from a group of dissatisfied magicians as to how underpowered their class is. I'd like to take a few moments to address this. Please realize that because of our intense work schedule at Verant, this is a purely FYI kind of thing.

RESEARCH

All research materials for Magicians are in the game. The frequency of the appearance of all research components has been increased by 300%. Instructions on research can be found in your guild hall, in several of the tomes sold by your guild merchant.

Now, why would the lead magic designer for Verant at the time say the phrase "all research materials for magicians are in the game" unless they weren't in the game to start with? This is a statement that is made because before hand all research materials were not in the game. I can't find 100% definite proof of this yet, but he is basically stating this.

I am telling you 100% the truth that magician pets were NOT in the game post level 20 at launch, as the ability to research them was broken, and the vendor who sold the one buyable pet did not have those pet spells yet.

I truly hope Green P99 holds true to this, as it was part of being a true magician back then, dealing with all the crap that was stuck against you...if you toughed it out, you eventually became strong, but from launch day for a couple of months, mages plain out SUCKED!

soronil
10-09-2019, 03:33 PM
I truly hope Green P99 holds true to this, as it was part of being a true magician back then, dealing with all the crap that was stuck against you...if you toughed it out, you eventually became strong, but from launch day for a couple of months, mages plain out SUCKED!

Your evidence just isn't sufficient. The post is from december and supposedly compiles a list of changes from what, launch, beta? We have no idea when any of those changes actually went in.

So, if you are actually interested in p99 implementing more classic behavior, how do you expect them to do it? They need to know approximately when the changes happened.

If you can find patch notes, or other evidence discussing a particular change AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED, then that's something that's usable by the devs to make the change, file a bug report, don't post it in general discussion. Although, posting it 2 weeks before the server opens is kind of silly, you've had 10 years to provide this evidence. At this point, it is unlikely to be changed in time.

lordpazuzu
10-09-2019, 10:21 PM
Erudite Magician was my first ever character. I thought it was fairly enjoyable.

Quinas
10-10-2019, 04:07 AM
Begun the Classic Wars have.

skorge
10-10-2019, 09:36 AM
Your evidence just isn't sufficient. The post is from december and supposedly compiles a list of changes from what, launch, beta? We have no idea when any of those changes actually went in.

So, if you are actually interested in p99 implementing more classic behavior, how do you expect them to do it? They need to know approximately when the changes happened.

If you can find patch notes, or other evidence discussing a particular change AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED, then that's something that's usable by the devs to make the change, file a bug report, don't post it in general discussion. Although, posting it 2 weeks before the server opens is kind of silly, you've had 10 years to provide this evidence. At this point, it is unlikely to be changed in time.

From launch, what makes you think he would include stuff in there from beta? This is proof alone...it doesn't matter the time stamp, really. At some point these pets did not cast spells. It's up to the P99 staff to find out when exactly they got patched in. I am suggesting it was 2-3 months after launch in April. Late June.

Also, why do you have such a NEGATIVE attitude? With this attitude P99 wouldn't even be here today. 2 weeks is PLENTY of time to implement such an easy change (simply turn off the ability for pets to cast spells).

I hope you learn to have a more positive attitude. Your life will be a lot more complete if you do.

Tenlaar
10-10-2019, 10:23 AM
It's up to the P99 staff to find out when exactly they got patched in.

This would be where you are wrong.

Jadian
10-10-2019, 11:22 AM
Your evidence just isn't sufficient. The post is from december and supposedly compiles a list of changes from what, launch, beta? We have no idea when any of those changes actually went in.

So, if you are actually interested in p99 implementing more classic behavior, how do you expect them to do it? They need to know approximately when the changes happened.

If you can find patch notes, or other evidence discussing a particular change AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED, then that's something that's usable by the devs to make the change, file a bug report, don't post it in general discussion. Although, posting it 2 weeks before the server opens is kind of silly, you've had 10 years to provide this evidence. At this point, it is unlikely to be changed in time.

But don't you see, he's able to decipher the INTENT of the Devs simply from a list of statistics. Basically he's being a politician.

DMN
10-10-2019, 11:31 AM
If you read the those notes its fairly explicit that it's not counting beta changes. There is no "- removed umbral messenger spell". regardless of your own personal knowledge about beta or vanilla, he clearly is not referring to beta changes.


mages didn't get spells until the pets were around level 30ish in early vanilla.

I do not agree that they didn't get any pets past 20. Still pretty sure they always had at least 1 purchasable from the vendors.

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 01:48 PM
Just from searching on the train, I found this thread which points to two issues:

1) Mage pets would run away from mobs more than X levels higher than them

2) Mage pets above 20 were perhaps all research only until some point (this squares with the GZ post I added earlier about mage spells only going on the vendors once enough people had "discovered" them)


5/7/99

Mitosis wrote in message <3732e4ac.6883423@news>...

>Now, I am currently playing on some newer servers, but I am wondering
>how useful a magician is to a group above level 20 or so? My lvl 8
>gnome mage on Rodcet Nife has been fun up until now, but I do not see
>that many spells which will be that helpful to the group in the
>future. I have also found that my pets will not attack mobs which are
>yellow or red to me. Thus, for all of lvl 7, I did not summon my pets
>in a group, and simply took the roll of standing back and casting
>along with the wizards.
>
>My basic frustration: My higher lvl offensive spells will not be as
>effective as the wizard, and my pet will run away from the red or
>yellow mobs my group is trying to attack. Can any higher lvl
>magicians comment on what they can do for a group? Is my coward pet
>only a problem with low level summonings? Will I use a pet with
>higher level groups?

At level 11 my pet would attack yellow creatures. I had the same problem as
you when I was level 7, so perhaps it was just our level 4 summoned
creatures. Strangely, now at 12, my pet will not attack willowisps. It will
fight them if they attack me, though.

>And no, I don't consider being the food supply for a group to be very
>exciting.

Your offensive spells aren't bad, and you can jump in and attack a bit also.
You can cast flame shield on the tanks too.

>Please help me decide on whether I should continue with my magician,
>or bit the bullet and create a gnome wizard?

Wizards do the most direct damage, but you need to play in a group at higher
levels. Magicians are better for soloing, IMO, and still contribute to a
group -- at least at level 12.

Mark Asher



https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/1qYztf4UBTg/FEHU2VgBCvkJ


5/7/99

On Fri, 07 May 1999 13:23:32 GMT, neme...@remove.hotmail.com
(Mitosis) wrote:
>Now, I am currently playing on some newer servers, but I am wondering
>how useful a magician is to a group above level 20 or so? My lvl 8
>gnome mage on Rodcet Nife has been fun up until now, but I do not see
>that many spells which will be that helpful to the group in the
>future. I have also found that my pets will not attack mobs which are
>yellow or red to me. Thus, for all of lvl 7, I did not summon my pets
>in a group, and simply took the roll of standing back and casting
>along with the wizards.
>
>My basic frustration: My higher lvl offensive spells will not be as
>effective as the wizard, and my pet will run away from the red or
>yellow mobs my group is trying to attack. Can any higher lvl
>magicians comment on what they can do for a group? Is my coward pet
>only a problem with low level summonings? Will I use a pet with
>higher level groups?
>
>And no, I don't consider being the food supply for a group to be very
>exciting.
>
>Please help me decide on whether I should continue with my magician,
>or bit the bullet and create a gnome wizard?
>
>Meiosis
>Rodcet Nife

Magicians are screwed up after 20th level. Our 24 and 29 level pets
are research only (good luck finding all those words), and there is no
sign of any pets existing after those levels. Plus, as we increase
in level, what we can summon besides pets quickly starts to become not
more than worthless baubles and unsellable junk. However, with a
little tuning, the class will remain great after 20th, so don't lose
hope alltogether.

As for the pet running away - it's always a problem at the cusp
levels, but decreases in severity as you level - it's awful at 7th,
bad at 11th (they'll start attacking some red cons then), better at
15th... 8th and higher pets seem to almost never run from yellow cons
at the cusp levels at least. In higher level groups, your pet becomes
an invaluable, powerful DoT spell (weaker than necro's pets in
practice, which is ridiculous given all else necros get, but not
dreadfully so), an extra tank to absorb damage, a personal bodyguard
to keep the baddies off you when you start to burn etc.

I love being a magician, and would never even consider being a wizard.
If you are not sure, try both, see which you like - it was easy for
me, because I knew I wanted a magician before I even began playing the
game. Now, I still want to be one, I just want to be a magician and
still be viable after L20.


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/1qYztf4UBTg/FEHU2VgBCvkJ

Erati
10-10-2019, 01:53 PM
Pets classically should “misbehave”

DMN
10-10-2019, 02:05 PM
Would be pretty weird if all mage pets were research only after level 20. A lot of necro pets 20+ were research only but still a decent amount of them were purchasable. You almost never went more than one spell level without a vendor-buyable upgrade, and I can't imagine why mages would have been different.

that said, necros got pets at level 1 and mages not till level 4. A bit of a headscratcher in and of itself for class concept consistency.



2) Mage pets above 20 were perhaps all research only until some point (this squares with the GZ post I added earlier about mage spells only going on the vendors once enough people had "discovered" them)




Where is this from? I don't see it in this thread.

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 02:08 PM
Another one about pets running away, post-fix. Fix seemed incomplete and they would not run away anymore, but would still refuse to attack.


5/20/99

2 notes based on a couple posts.
To Jeff K:

Magicians can't heal, but they can summon bandages and Bind Wound. Granted,
it's not all that great, but it's something (at least it isn't for me, but
my skill is only at about 15), it's cheap, uses no mana (assuming you've
summoned plenty of bandages when you first logged on), and is fairly fast.
The downside, of course, is that it will only heal up to 50% of your max
HPs, but it can certainly speed up the total healing time.

To Phred:

I also read where the pets no longer run away, and that's great news. :) I
was disappointed to find that he wouldn't ATTACK anything he used to run
away from either. Well, to modify that statement a little....

I found a /con white wisp at lvl 9. I told my lvl 8 pet to attack it. He
ignored me (the bastard! <g> ).

BUT, (and I'm not sure here...it only happened once so far and I lose track
seeing all the battle commentary in the same color) I'm PRETTY sure my pet
didn't help me in another /con white fight until after the critter was
beating on me AND I told my pet to do its job (/pet attack).



https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/K609UirA0uw/tJHVkCYcyJMJ

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 02:15 PM
Where is this from? I don't see it in this thread.

I might have jumped the gun a bit. It's from the summoned items section.

There are also several hidden spells out there, waiting for players to find. Once a certain number of these have been found, they will be available from magician vendors. I'm not saying where they are or what they are… but they are nice…

mattydef
10-10-2019, 02:34 PM
Sounds like OP is making a mage on green and wants less competition.

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 02:53 PM
Another one that at least some magician research was buggy and or broken. But no details on what.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/8wdjCsthvks/DLzsA2Zg9z8J

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 02:58 PM
Ah I got a good one. Originally mage pets were research only it seems?


6/10/99

David Schrank <david....@webline.com> sez:
>the problems are four fold.
>Our pets at higher levels become research spells, though they seem to have added at
>least one pet per circle now

Yep. That's a complaint that no longer has any validity. At
least ONE pet (sometimes two or three) is available for purchase from
vendors at each circle.


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/3ne9FgsY_Gs/2XI-lRaLJqQJ

Palemoon
10-10-2019, 03:08 PM
Ah I got a good one. Originally mage pets were research only it seems?



https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/3ne9FgsY_Gs/2XI-lRaLJqQJ

We need this to happen on green. Can you imagine the world crush it would be to those forming mage power groups?

Niedar
10-10-2019, 03:09 PM
Seeing lots of conspiracy theories and rumors from nerds on message boards in 1999 but little facts.

skorge
10-10-2019, 03:15 PM
Sounds like OP is making a mage on green and wants less competition.

Lol nope. It's just that I played a mage as my very first character on launch day of Everquest up until level 24. He was no longer viable at this level as I could not research any pets. It wasn't even the fact that pets sucked back then (didn't have abilities) it was that I could no longer upgrade my pet, and as someone said above on 05/99 pets simply didn't just exist at that point at higher levels and nobody knew when they were going to be added. I quit my mage probably in June of 99 and rerolled to a druid, then shaman.

Playing the mage on launch up until June was super frustrating. They were gimped hard, like rogues. Necros just completely blew them out of the water in power, until Brad made mages viable again.

What's funny is I read the thread about someone talking about research not working for mage and he spent a lot of time on it and knew more than the in-game guides/gms...that's actually legit. I did the same and I could even be the other person he is talking about when he mentions the gm/guide talked to someone else, lol. I spent DAYS trying to find my 24th+ pet. My friend, highest level mage on server, in Fires of Heaven, was level 28 using the level 20 pet in Cazic Thule. No joke...that's how bad it was. Keep in mind, during this time, EVERYONE grouped...so literally no mages on the server were soloing back then...it was just too hard. Even at lower levels trying to solo with a mage = death.

After spending all that time and no answer in sight I made a druid, lol...then made my main a shaman after getting the druid up to the 20s. If mages were what they became I would have stuck to the mage to level 50.

Gustoo
10-10-2019, 03:33 PM
Nice good OG stories.

skorge
10-10-2019, 03:46 PM
Nice good OG stories.

Yep, lol...i remember those first couple months like it was yesterday...they were so epic. I even remember most of my good's friends name, including a halfling druid named Ceffin on Veeshan whom they did a big funeral service for in lavastorm (he died IRL and the gms held a funeral service for him and sent his body off into lava...literally brought a tear to my eye when i saw his name written down on a sheet of paper i had on my desk, a few months later - i would write names down to keep up with them better).

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 04:30 PM
I dumped the EQ_spell_research list the other day and I've updated my export-html.sh to include links and format the message a bit better.

I found a message referring to GZ commenting that mage research was broken and that some stuff wasn't in the game. Includes explicit references to failed combines.

Tragically the list the message is from, EQMagicians, isn't archived by Yahoo. :( But I do get snippets.

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/72


[Next Message in Time] | [Previous Message in Time] | [Next Message in Topic] | [Previous Message in Topic]

Message ID: 72
Date: Mon May 10 20:36:57 BST 1999
Author: Magis
Subject: Exatcly how to do this.


This IS From the magicians ONEList And from As Far as I know The
Highest level Magician of all ..


From: "Seth Oliver" <SOliver@...>

LVL 24 RESEARCH:
Here is the low down on what has been happening with me. Also, thank
you
Vicki. :)
I found Gloves of Rallos Zek,
Flame of Vox ( qty 2 )
Words of Coersion ( qty 2 )
Words of Transendence (qty 2)

1- My friend Arkaine (lvl 35 magician on fennin with me) successfully
made
a level 20 earth elemental. So the methodology is there. NO NEED FOR
PEN
AND PARCHMENT. Just the three components listed in the book then
combine.

2- Everfont is broke. Level 20 water ele is broke. Level 24 Earth ele
is
broke. How do i know? Well i no longer have Gloves of Rallos Zek and
now i
am down to 1 Words of Coersion. Also I am down to 1 words of
transendence
becuase i tried to create level 24 earth ele and everfont only to get
the
message that these hard earned and extremely rare items do not go
together
to form jack squak.

3- Arkaine was successful in creating level 20 earth, so the method on
how
to do it is real simple. Put in the three components, click combine.
However it would not allow Arkaine to create level 20 water nor
everfont,
and it would not allow me to create everfont nor Level 24 earth. I
talked
to the man who updates and maintains EQLizer which is at Gameznet.com
who is
in my guild and he talked to GZ less then a week ago. GZ told him that
all
research was implemented EXCEPT magician research. I believe they
forgot to
implement ALL our research, just some of it. If any of have luck, let
me
know. Once again, YOU DO NOT NEED PEN AND PARCHMENT

Peace Fellow Magi,
Jago Mindbender 34 Fennin



Most Of The Magicians Spells research Are broke ( Still mostly a beta
Character) Some work some don't .... As For the Rest I don't know Never
bothered to research them on the Net or get information about them
anyone high enough level to research in the other classes never bothered
to post anything general that I have Found ..

Hope this helps..
--

Jamie Macdonald

A.K.A
Magis DarkStone
Mercenary Mage

-----------------------------------------------------------

"I've been a Wizard, Magician, Sorcerer, And Charlatan."

"But I've always been a Loner by Nature
and A Lurker by Want"

"Knowledge Is Power, Learn how to use It"

-----------------------------------------------------------


Anyone interested can use the export-html.sh script to translate these jsons to html files. You'll need a bash shell with the jq utility installed.

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archives/tree/master/mailing-lists

AgentEpilot
10-10-2019, 04:36 PM
Didnt mage pets also have a chance on summon to attack the mage? I would love to see some pet rage going on.

DMN
10-10-2019, 04:39 PM
Yep, lol...i remember those first couple months like it was yesterday...they were so epic. I even remember most of my good's friends name, including a halfling druid named Ceffin on Veeshan whom they did a big funeral service for in lavastorm (he died IRL and the gms held a funeral service for him and sent his body off into lava...literally brought a tear to my eye when i saw his name written down on a sheet of paper i had on my desk, a few months later - i would write names down to keep up with them better).

You probably wrote them down because the friends list didn't exist for awhile.

DMN
10-10-2019, 04:40 PM
Didnt mage pets also have a chance on summon to attack the mage? I would love to see some pet rage going on.

Baldur's gate exit left 2000 feet.

Quinas
10-10-2019, 04:42 PM
Twenty year old internet forum posts feeling like Sumerian tablets.

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 04:49 PM
https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/300


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Message ID: 300
Date: Tue May 18 13:36:34 BST 1999
Author: Lute Lewis
Subject: Re: BEWARE OF HAPPY99.exe


>I jsut hope his guy isnt an EQ player...

I fail to see why you would hope he isn't an EQ player. Not too many people
will sign up to this list and not play EQ anyway.

>N.B: a necro jsut let me known that a group of 6 bnecros including her
killed a >Sand Giant in Oasis. 2 Levels 17, 1 Level 18 and 3 levels
20...Amazing huh? heh >NEcros are really powerfull. i dont have any doubt
anymore =)

Necros can do this because it is a cheap tactic using DOT spells. Not
amazing, just the fact that your spells aren't resisted. All of my necro
friends, higher than those you mentioned, don't do this because it's cheap,
boring (it takes forever to kill a level 30+ monster at low level), and they
know they really aren't getting the kill so it's no satisfaction for them.

I read today that you can't get level 24+ Magician pets until they fix
it. The fix will be either the research involved in getting these pets, or
adding shops that will just sell them. I'd imagine they would add shops
since the 24 pets are documented in spell lists not as "Mist Elemental" and
what not, but who knows. I have spent 3 levels in South Karana trying to get
aviak feathers, so it's safe to say your chances of getting them there are
slim. I also read about a vendor in a locked hut and a Minotaur vendor in
south karana, supposedly mage releated. Does anyone know about this?


https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/314


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Message ID: 314
Date: Wed May 19 13:07:45 BST 1999
Author: Lute Lewis
Subject: Re: My (limited) exp with research:


> Next, i tried my hand on 29th one time. Unfortunatly after putting the
> correct runes(29th take 3 runes) and combining they did not combine to
> produce anything . so i am assuming that 29th spells need a 4th
> component, the book did not mention anything else so i am clueless as to
> what else is needed.
>
> If anyone can shed some light as to wether something else is needed
> after 29th , i would appreciate it.
> Also i am quiet puzzled by runes wich do not appear in any of the 4
> books. Guess there must be more books out there,maybe quest rewards?

I read you can't research spells until you are that level (can't get 24
spells till you are 24). That might be the problem there but your email
didn't state what level you are, so who knows.

Does anyone know when the next patch to fix the numerous magician
research spell bugs is supposed to be applied?

And please keep the messages on topic. Soon as I see someone whining
about viruses or their class, it's gets unread, unoticed, and deleted.

Hiretsukan
23 Magician
Rellos Zek


This one is a bit different in that it talks about the "pet running away from combat" bug and gives an exact date of patch/fix. Also talks about the GZ post I posted earlier.

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/319


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Message ID: 319
Date: Wed May 19 18:23:43 BST 1999
Author: ShrrtStuff@aol.com
Subject: Hidden gems for Magicians? (per Geoff Zatkin)


Recently, Geoff Zatkin (Verant's boss of their magic system) has
posted a rant/rave about magicians, because so many people were complaining
to him that magicians get short changed. He said in his analysis that there
were some really great hidden things that magicians can get but no one has
discovered yet. He also said that once these secret goodies started being
discovered, they would be made available at vendors where anyone could get
them.

Has anyone any clue about these hidden, desirable things?

If you want to read Geoff's post on magicians, I think Stratics,
EQVault, and EQ'lizer all have it. It is very enlightening and useful for
anyone playing a magician or grouping with one. [WARNING, "I hate my class"
whine follows] Last night's patch mentioned just as briefly as possible that
"magician's pets will no longer run away from combat", but I guess that
little bug didn't make it into Geoff's analysis that he wrote two or three
weeks ago. I also think magicians are hurt worse than anyone else by
disconnections and crashes, which he didn't address. But, still, tis a good
read and thoughtfully written.

skorge
10-10-2019, 04:56 PM
https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/300



https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/314

Damn you are the man Dolalin...finally! Nice to verify that mage pets were basically impossible to get after level 20 at launch. This was from May as well...that basically narrows the patch down to happening around June-July 1999.

The reason this is so elusive is the fact that only a few people actually rolled a mage as first character. I happened to be one of them, so I strongly remember it. At the same time it is what made my EQ experience lovable. I still had a great time in Everquest, meeting people and grouping up, even on my crappy mage who died like 5 times a day on average lol. I think magician was Verant's trickiest class at the time. They didn't want it to be too strong so they accidentally made it too weak as a result...then they finally "fixed" it into the class that is on P99.

magusfire24
10-10-2019, 05:00 PM
That is why I will be a Necro! :)

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 05:03 PM
Oh while we're talking about Sumerian tablets... I found a missing patch message from late May!

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/424


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Message ID: 424
Date: Mon May 24 05:02:32 BST 1999
Author: Weeze
Subject: (no subject)


I am sure you all have seen the list of spells. But I really wanted to make so comments.
This is an enchanters take on the changes.

- Players will no longer crash when an extremely long group message is received.

Preventing the from crashing is always a good thing.

- Added the ability to pull one item "charge" from a stack by holding down the "Control" key when left-clicking on the stack.

For anyone who has ever tried to advance in a trade skill this is a welcomed change.

- After casting a spell at an NPC, if the target were lost before the spell made contact, the caster would crash.

This is a declaritive statement. Did they fix it or are they just acknowleding it?

- The "/ignore" command will now ignore emotes also.
- The chat command "/e" will trigger "/emote" instead of exiting to the character selection screen.

Can't argue with change for the better.

- We have added new sound tracks to the Planes, Crushbone, Guk, Mistmoore, Steamfont, and the Estate of Un

I would rather have the bug worked on over the soundtracks but that is just my own opinion.

- We have reduced the amount of experience lost when dying by 50%.

This would have helped me 2 weeks ago when I hit level 14, 13 different times. Probably my favorite of the non enchanter changes.

- A number of new quests have been added to various zones.

But the question is do they actually work?

- Magician pets (elemental) will now cast minor spells (to make up for their lack of kick)
- New Magician spells on vendors and some Magician spells have moved to different vendors
- New Magician weapons for Summon Fang & Spear of Warding & Dagger of Symbols

I don't play an enchanter but I am sure that they will like this.

- New enchanter whirl spell (check the vendors)

Does anyone know what level this is for?

- Whirl now works on MOBS better than it did on the last patch.
- The saving throw against Memory Blur and Atone was reduced (harder to save against) from the last patch.

THEY LISTENED! I am suprised. Although they didn't put it back to where it was, I am happy. Really it could be a sham, the change could be only one percentage point of resist and it would still be true. BUT they did listen to us and made an attempt to apiece us.

- AC added to the Rune Series (Enchanter)

Don't have it yet but at least it isn't a downgrade.

- Alliance series works better (Enchanter)
- Enchanter Attack Speed spells now have longer durations (Quickness, Alacrity, etc.)
- Tashan (the entire Enchanter series) is now quicker to cast, costs less mana, and is harder to save against.

What took so long? These should not have been patches after the game was released. Tashan has always been pretty useless along with Alliance. And I told that the speed spells weren't worth the mana for what you got.

- New bard songs have been added to the vendors
- Paladins lose the spell Bravery, and gain the spell Valor
- ShadowKnights and Necromancers gain the Word of Spirit spell (replacing Word of Shadow for the ShadowKnight)
- ShadowKnights lose Haunting Corpse and gain Summon Dead
- Necromancers and ShadowKnights get a new spell - Shadow Vortex.
- ShadowKnights lose Intensify Death (replaced by Shadow Vortex)
- Rangers lose Shield of Barbs and gain Shield of Brambles

Good for them.... =)

- Shorter stun effects will no longer remove longer stun effects (Bash won't get rid of whirl, for example)

Another example of Feedback in action.

- Spell components are now stackable

Again what took so long. Why were they ever created not stackable?

Don't let this stop any of your feedback or petitions. Tonight send a feedback giving thanks for the improvements, but also tell them what needs to be improved.
------
When the people we love are stolen from us, the way to have them live on is to never stop loving them. Buildings burn, people die, but real love is forever. -- The Crow


OH SNAP HERE IT IS, MAGE PETS START CASTING SPELLS ONLY IN LATE MAY 1999:


- Magician pets (elemental) will now cast minor spells (to make up for their lack of kick)
- New Magician spells on vendors and some Magician spells have moved to different vendors
- New Magician weapons for Summon Fang & Spear of Warding & Dagger of Symbols

skorge
10-10-2019, 05:08 PM
Oh while we're talking about Sumerian tablets... I found a missing patch message from late May!

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/424



OH SNAP HERE IT IS, MAGE PETS START CASTING SPELLS ONLY IN LATE MAY 1999:

Awesome. So there it is right now for Rogean/Nilbog to review and hopefully implement on Green. Server launched 03/16 and this patch is late May. So a little over 2 months or so after launch are when pets should be given spells. BAM! Now who's the dude saying "fake news" now? Lol

Also this should be combined with the missing pet vendor not being in-game or not selling pet spells post level 20.

Gunna be drowning in all the tears from master pre-arranged mage groups now.

AgentEpilot
10-10-2019, 05:11 PM
Baldur's gate exit left 2000 feet.

Best game ever, but wasn’t there something about mage pets doing it too?

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 05:14 PM
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2981056#post2981056

Jungleberry
10-10-2019, 05:25 PM
Oh while we're talking about Sumerian tablets... I found a missing patch message from late May!

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/424



OH SNAP HERE IT IS, MAGE PETS START CASTING SPELLS ONLY IN LATE MAY 1999:

This got me.


- We have reduced the amount of experience lost when dying by 50%.

This would have helped me 2 weeks ago when I hit level 14, 13 different times. Probably my favorite of the non enchanter changes.

Sunderfury
10-10-2019, 05:36 PM
Thank you Dolalin, I've been looking for that May 1999 patch message from the Death Penalty thread.

Interesting that spell components were not stackable apparently, not sure if this refers to reagents or research components.

Dolalin
10-10-2019, 05:42 PM
No prob I find this fun.

I'll go through the rest of the list tomorrow, gotta head to bed.

Jadian
10-10-2019, 06:32 PM
Yeah, changing sound tracks in the planes definitely sounds like a priority for one of the first game patches

DMN
10-10-2019, 06:38 PM
i'm pretty leary of taking morons as gospel 20 years after the fact.

How is it the same guy who says "This is an enchanters take on the changes." can jive with "I don't play an enchanter but I am sure that they will like this."

Jimjam
10-10-2019, 06:54 PM
i'm pretty leary of taking morons as gospel 20 years after the fact.

How is it the same guy who says "This is an enchanters take on the changes." can jive with "I don't play an enchanter but I am sure that they will like this."

Pretty sure he meant to say he doesn't play magician. Given thr context of the rest of the post.

So magician pets don't kick?

DMN
10-10-2019, 07:17 PM
Pretty sure he meant to say he doesn't play magician. Given thr context of the rest of the post.

So magician pets don't kick?

Pretty sure he's an idiot.

Hagglebaron
10-10-2019, 10:06 PM
So what was the verdict on the mage issue? Was OP right or wrong?

kylok
10-10-2019, 10:45 PM
Looks pretty correct to me. Shit sounds extremely classic

Quinas
10-11-2019, 01:39 AM
What's amazing is how unfinished this game was in March 1999, and yet how much it was loved despite that. Goes to show how a lack of competition can really have an effect. And how something truly novel and revolutionary can be forgiven for its faults!

Nowadays.. unfinished + rehash of 10 other games = Twitter hate.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 02:17 AM
Pretty sure he's an idiot.

At least he could copy-paste, that's all I care about.

I'm reminded of that manuscript of boring old Bible writing where they put it under the X-ray and found the monk had written over a copy of a mathematical treatise by Archimedes.

Nobody cares what the monk wrote over top, it's what he accidentally preserved underneath that had value. :D

Quinas
10-11-2019, 02:43 AM
At least he could copy-paste, that's all I care about.

I'm reminded of that manuscript of boring old Bible writing where they put it under the X-ray and found the monk had written over a copy of a mathematical treatise by Archimedes.

Nobody cares what the monk wrote over top, it's what he accidentally preserved underneath that had value. :D

Well-played.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 03:57 AM
I found another lost patch message. This www.notcrazy.com site seems to have a lot of them.

http://web.archive.org/web/19990429084131/http://notcrazy.com/


Server Update 4/27/99 7:30 pm
Citizens of Norrath,
We are pleased to announce that the hardware upgrade that was performed on our router this morning has appeared to resolve the severe packet loss problems that many players were encountering over the past week. We have been, and will continue to monitor the load on the new hardware to assure that the packet-loss problems will no longer occur on our end. During the router upgrade we transported the Karana server farm to the AT&T; CerfNet facility to further reduce the load on our router. Also, the new "Rodcet Nife" server was just brought up to accommodate the additional users that have joined over the past few weeks. After thoroughly testing changes made only for Rallos Zek (PK server), we have activated the new code for the PK server ONLY.

The changes include the following;
1) Pets will no longer kill themselves if their master has invisibility cast on them.
2) Pets will no longer attack other players while they are in guard mode if their master goes link-dead.
3) Pets will now attack opposing combatants while their master is dueling.
4) NPCs will no longer respond to invisible PCs.

Other fixes and changes include:

1) The corpse class tag will not be listed as "Unknown".
2) Players will be given text messages for items that they cannot obtain while looting a corpse, instead of the item disappearing.
3) A number of quests and combat related exploits were fixed.
4) Characters are no longer able to use the disarm command while using feign death.

At Midnight, on Wednesday the 28th, the servers will be brought down for an update.

- The EverQuest Team



Edit: actually I spoke too soon, it only has this one, the news archive links don't work. :(

DMN
10-11-2019, 04:02 AM
I remember a lot of people being convinced that pet spells were harder to make, both necro and mages.

But I think the main problem was so many people had garbage for research skill since there wasn't an easy way to raise it. No one really cared that much about the other research spells so if they failed it was like "meh". But the pets? necro/mages won't soon stop ruminating on that, nor complaining about it on the internet.

DMN
10-11-2019, 04:09 AM
Edit: actually I spoke too soon, it only has this one, the news archive links don't work. :(

Changes exclusive to the RZ server.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 05:32 AM
You're right, that patch is PvP servers only.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 05:34 AM
Based on things I've found last night and today, I've filed many new magician and a necro bug in the forums to get the classes timeline correct, especially around pets.

Make mages gimpy again!

skorge
10-11-2019, 05:42 AM
You're right, that patch is PvP servers only.

Something that it made me remember was that invisibility could originally be cast on players not in your group...which sucked for mages as someone would randomly come by and invis you and kill your pet. I am not sure when they made invisibility a group spell.

No clue if p99 staff even know about this one...this one could be tough to find as i remember it changing maybe within 1 month in or so...

DMN
10-11-2019, 05:50 AM
Remember how pets used to kill themselves?

Jobonker hits jobonker for 82946 damage.


I forget the exact number but ridiculously high. Might have just been a beta thing.

skorge
10-11-2019, 05:52 AM
Remember how pets used to kill themselves?

Jobonker hits jobonker for 82946 damage.


I forget the exact number but ridiculously high. Might have just been a beta thing.

Yep, even a step further, they actually used to talk to you too...group members would screw with me and give my pet something like a chunk of clay, and he would start saying stuff like "Thank you, X, for the X, X, X....."

DMN
10-11-2019, 05:55 AM
Yep, even a step further, they actually used to talk to you too...group members would screw with me and give my pet something like a chunk of clay, and he would start saying stuff like "Thank you, X, for the X, X, X....."

Ya. Druids would always be feeding them grubs.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 05:58 AM
@Sunderfury:

The Spell Components not stacking was indeed the research words/runes/etc.

Also the Azia, Beza etc names on the words was not added until sometime later.

https://groups.yahoo.com/api/v1/groups/EQ_spell_research/messages/722


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Message ID: 722
Date: Fri Sep 10 12:03:53 BST 1999
Author: TkAdam@aol.com
Subject: Re: Unknown Words


In a message dated 9/10/99 3:27:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lomack@... writes:

> I have some questions about some words if any of you know the answers.
>
I cannot answer all, but I will try :)

> 1. I have about 7 words of Dominion but one of them won't stack with the
> rest? Is this bug from a word from before the stacking patch or is there
> some other use for a non stacking word?
>
It may be a leftover bug. if not, the NON stacking is for necro, but I
believe it is a leftover bug.

> 2. I have Words of Pacification and Words of Derivation. Can someone tell
> me what spells these are for? I looked all over a few sites that have
> research info and couldn't find either of these words listed.
>
Did you look at both Necromancer lists and Mage lists? Both use words... so
it could be for the other class if you are only looking at one.

Otherwise... I would not put it past verant to have some useless words out
there... jsut to confuse matters :) (I am not complaining here... I think it
is not a bad idea... ads a little spice)

> 3. I have a Velishouls Tome Faded Page but it dosen't have a page number
> associated with it. I noticed on the lists that there are 2 versions of
> Faded pages for Velishouls Tome. One a page 16 and one a page 108. Does
> anyone know which version of the Faded page I have if it has no page
number?
>
may be a useless one :) as I mentioned above. or even possibly a mage
component? (guessing here...)

> 4. I have Words of the Sentient but there appear to be two different types
> one says "A.... the other B.... (I put dots in to signifify that I can't
> remember the rest of the word. But these A and B words are in parenthesies
> after the name of the Page. Any clue what each is for? I know Words of
> the Sentient are used for the Necro spell Restless Bones and Intensify
> Death. I assume one type is for each spell. Can someone tell me which is
> which?
>

This one I am fairly certain is were there is one for Necromancers, one for
Mages. as for which one is which, I do not ember, and you will have to try :(

Sonoroud Tomebinder, 24th level Necromancer, Veeshan

Fammaden
10-11-2019, 07:02 AM
I remember a lot of people being convinced that pet spells were harder to make, both necro and mages.

But I think the main problem was so many people had garbage for research skill since there wasn't an easy way to raise it. No one really cared that much about the other research spells so if they failed it was like "meh". But the pets? necro/mages won't soon stop ruminating on that, nor complaining about it on the internet.

Not only pets, but for necro you have Call of Bones at 34 which is HUGE, and then DMF at 44 and Lich at 49. The research problem is easily the biggest drawback to rolling mage or necro to start IMO. Maybe it won't be that bad but research can be a major pain in the ass and I think people used to blue don't realize how trivial getting their spells has been prior to this.

And now research components might not stack right away? Oof!

DMN
10-11-2019, 02:21 PM
Not only pets, but for necro you have Call of Bones at 34 which is HUGE, and then DMF at 44 and Lich at 49. The research problem is easily the biggest drawback to rolling mage or necro to start IMO. Maybe it won't be that bad but research can be a major pain in the ass and I think people used to blue don't realize how trivial getting their spells has been prior to this.

And now research components might not stack right away? Oof!

DMf won't exist for a long time. The lich spells aren't nearly as useful beyond your normal regeneration rate because necro lifetaps aren't very mana efficient for most of 1-50. Bond of death, the first really efficient tap, also doesn't show up for awhile.

Fammaden
10-11-2019, 02:43 PM
Ok, I thought DMF was an original spell, is that Kunark or just a later patch?

And maybe true on lich but call of bones is incredibly strong and I'm not sure how common it will be due to research. And then as you said there are the pets of course.

Dolalin
10-11-2019, 02:53 PM
Dead Man Walking was an original spell but it was Lich.

They later moved DMW to Lich at 49 and added DMF.

You can check the EQLizer necro spells page from May 1999 for a list of classic spells.

Secrets
10-11-2019, 08:34 PM
Can confirm pets killed themselves at a rate of (Formula 100: -4/tick):

https://i.imgur.com/yBgu5ve.png

Burnout line was additionally using the permanent buff duration formula (50) as shown in the screenshot

Also Burnout didn't used to give haste, it only gave AC/STR.

Reecon
10-11-2019, 10:58 PM
Pet windows will not be on Green so i hope ppl are ready to actually use pet commands or target their pets to see what their health is at

Palemoon
10-11-2019, 11:58 PM
Going with the topic about re: nerfing mages, everyone refresh my memory:

Right now everyone, including casters, are not getting their melee weapon swing delay reset at the completion of a spell cast. Everyone is in effecting getting free swings in when they should not. This was a specific and unique benefit to hybrids (only) sometime after launch right? Is this on the radar of things to fix?

DMN
10-12-2019, 09:42 AM
Going with the topic about re: nerfing mages, everyone refresh my memory:

Right now everyone, including casters, are not getting their melee weapon swing delay reset at the completion of a spell cast. Everyone is in effecting getting free swings in when they should not. This was a specific and unique benefit to hybrids (only) sometime after launch right? Is this on the radar of things to fix?

Have any contemporary evidence of this? should probably make your own thread instead of piggybacking off a completely unrelated one.

I certainly don't recall this being a special feature of hybrids, nor the feature being added. More likely than not, spell casting hybrids just thought more about having to cast between swings so optimizing that mechanic was a more prominent feature of effectively playing them.

AbstractVision
10-12-2019, 10:20 AM
Cannot find proof of mages not having access to at least one pet at all levels.

This post july 1999 clearly states that most cities have for sale at least 1 per of each circle/level.
> 2) I know the level 20 elemental spells can be bought in OOT, but can they be bought in Felwithe as well? I have heard of some Mage Spells NPC but never found her... am I mistaken about her?

There is at least one pet for each circle that can be bought in most
towns. If I remember correctly, Earth was a research pet at level 20.
I bought mine off of that special vendor in OOT though, who has all of
them up *to* level 20. If you don't want to go there, just research it.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/magician$20pet$20research|sort:date/alt.games.everquest/xy5zKEufJ_s/kIBVeUq0xxwJ

Further researching has shown me that pets still retained their innate abilities at launch such as invis/DS/fast regen on water. They just didn't cast their 6 second nukes which they get 2 months after launch. The 6 second nukes are still broken on p99 by the way and cast less frequently, don't expect to see the devs code a change for 2 months when we have been waiting for them to fix classic pet nukes and aggro for 5 years.

Dolalin
10-12-2019, 10:26 AM
I'll return to the issue of research-only mage pets soon.

I'm not interested, and I doubt the staff are interested, in implementing completely broken mechanics like the broken research recipes for ~lvl20 mage spells that I found direct evidence for. But there's very good evidence, and patch/dev comment evidence, for research materials being much rarer (like 300% rarer) at launch than they are now, if nothing else.

Sillyturtle
10-12-2019, 10:44 AM
Cannot find proof of mages not having access to at least one pet at all levels.

This post july 1999 clearly states that most cities have for sale at least 1 per of each circle/level.


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/magician$20pet$20research|sort:date/alt.games.everquest/xy5zKEufJ_s/kIBVeUq0xxwJ

Further researching has shown me that pets still retained their innate abilities at launch such as invis/DS/fast regen on water. They just didn't cast their 6 second nukes which they get 2 months after launch. The 6 second nukes are still broken on p99 by the way and cast less frequently, don't expect to see the devs code a change for 2 months when we have been waiting for them to fix classic pet nukes and aggro for 5 years.

If you look someone already posted proof that there were no pets past level 24.

Your post confirms pets at level 20, which is what he also said.

DMN
10-12-2019, 10:53 AM
Cannot find proof of mages not having access to at least one pet at all levels.

This post july 1999 clearly states that most cities have for sale at least 1 per of each circle/level.


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/magician$20pet$20research|sort:date/alt.games.everquest/xy5zKEufJ_s/kIBVeUq0xxwJ

Further researching has shown me that pets still retained their innate abilities at launch such as invis/DS/fast regen on water. They just didn't cast their 6 second nukes which they get 2 months after launch. The 6 second nukes are still broken on p99 by the way and cast less frequently, don't expect to see the devs code a change for 2 months when we have been waiting for them to fix classic pet nukes and aggro for 5 years.

Unfortunately, that post is after the may 24th patch:
- New Magician spells on vendors and some Magician spells have moved to different vendors

You should be looking at information pre-may 24th.

If you look someone already posted proof that there were no pets past level 24.

Your post confirms pets at level 20, which is what he also said.

Actually the post says quite clearly that there is a pet for every circle available for purchase.

Palemoon
10-12-2019, 01:17 PM
Have any contemporary evidence of this? should probably make your own thread instead of piggybacking off a completely unrelated one.

I certainly don't recall this being a special feature of hybrids, nor the feature being added. More likely than not, spell casting hybrids just thought more about having to cast between swings so optimizing that mechanic was a more prominent feature of effectively playing them.

There is already a bugreport with patch notes on it in the bug section, so hopefully this gets implemented for Green.

It does kind of relate to this "mages sucked at launch" because the current ability to swing your weapon in between casting is leading to way more damage (at the low levels) than otherwise.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334518

DMN
10-12-2019, 02:07 PM
There is already a bugreport with patch notes on it in the bug section, so hopefully this gets implemented for Green.

It does kind of relate to this "mages sucked at launch" because the current ability to swing your weapon in between casting is leading to way more damage (at the low levels) than otherwise.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334518

It's a pretty weird patch note. The second sentence makes it sound like this was something only hindering hybrids:

" Melee attack timers will no longer be reset when a SK, Paladin, or
Ranger cast a spell. Previously these classes had to wait a full attack
delay after casting before they would attack via melee again. "

Palemoon
10-12-2019, 02:23 PM
It's a pretty weird patch note. The second sentence makes it sound like this was something only hindering hybrids:

" Melee attack timers will no longer be reset when a SK, Paladin, or
Ranger cast a spell. Previously these classes had to wait a full attack
delay after casting before they would attack via melee again. "


Its because they were the only ones that were fully expected to mix magic with melee, so the rule that applied across the board about casting resetting the weapon delay , was lifted for them. I remember this as a SK back then.

But its a unclassic big deal here because all my little caster alts (INT and WIS based) are doing tons of melee damage in between nuking mobs down. Not classic.

Hagglebaron
10-12-2019, 03:12 PM
Have staff said whether they are accepting these mage changes? Is mage going to be a dead on arrival class or not?

hillgiantchamp
10-12-2019, 03:54 PM
I sure hope we get gm confirmation on the mage topic aswell before release

randal.flagg
10-12-2019, 03:58 PM
Can we TRY to keep on topic in these threads plz. It will make it a LOT more likely to garner a GM response if there is one topic per thread.

skorge
10-12-2019, 04:10 PM
Have staff said whether they are accepting these mage changes? Is mage going to be a dead on arrival class or not?

Hey Haggle, i'm the guy who made your sig way back then, lol. Nice to hear from ya again.

I played a mage at launch through June/July 99. They weren't dead on arrival. They were just weaker than they are now. They still get a pet. They still get DS and nukes. They can still summon things.

They get better 2+ months in for sure though. Like I've said before, the only reason I stopped playing my mage then was there was no pets in-game post level 20. Research was broken and the vendor who sold pet was not selling then.

DMN
10-12-2019, 04:23 PM
A bit of good news for would-be mages.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/magicians$20research$20%7Csort:date/alt.games.everquest/K609UirA0uw/aeAtylrefZIJ

This is seems good evidence that the fire pets still had their damage shields Before the pet spells. were added.

So far, I have only tried the fire elemental, and the earth elemental.
At low levels the attacks of these two beasts were similar, with the
exception being that the fire elemental had VERY little heath to
spare, and thus never lasted long in any battle I fought in. I can
see an advantage to a fires shield in a battle with multiple mobs, but
it simply died too quickly in battle. At levels 8 and 12, the earth
elemental was all that I could afford.

Hagglebaron
10-12-2019, 04:24 PM
Hey Haggle, i'm the guy who made your sig way back then, lol. Nice to hear from ya again.

I played a mage at launch through June/July 99. They weren't dead on arrival. They were just weaker than they are now. They still get a pet. They still get DS and nukes. They can still summon things.

They get better 2+ months in for sure though. Like I've said before, the only reason I stopped playing my mage then was there was no pets in-game post level 20. Research was broken and the vendor who sold pet was not selling then.

THAT WAS YOU WASN'T IT! Lol I forgot you made this for me, I've loved it to this day. How are things man? What's your plan for Green?

I was planning on maining a mage but now I'm gun-shy what with these changes that apparently got overlooked during Blue's timeline. I mean do they become the strong class we knew from blue once the two month changes come into effect? Are the staff planning on integrating these changes? No pets after level 20 kind of sounds like a class killer to me lol.

Kimmy
10-12-2019, 06:09 PM
The original poster is 110% incorrect.
Quite the opposite was the case at launch on live.

Mages could actually summon up to 3 pets, and was Nerfed fairly quickly. 2-3wks after launch.

Ultimately, one could pick the worse race for a mage, and that would be a human.

IN the end.. his information about mages are very wrong. I played a mage, rogue and shm on live from launch as well.

skorge
10-13-2019, 08:39 AM
THAT WAS YOU WASN'T IT! Lol I forgot you made this for me, I've loved it to this day. How are things man? What's your plan for Green?

I was planning on maining a mage but now I'm gun-shy what with these changes that apparently got overlooked during Blue's timeline. I mean do they become the strong class we knew from blue once the two month changes come into effect? Are the staff planning on integrating these changes? No pets after level 20 kind of sounds like a class killer to me lol.

I think the answer to your question is yea, they will eventually. I am not sure on the staff's plan as far as the higher level pets go. I imagine they will make them researchable at least...on live mar-late may research was broke. I think they will have it fixed here but the items you need are 300% rarer...so it will still be super hard to get a pet level 24+ until 2.5 months in or so...not impossible though. I hope they don't have research flat out broke though.

Nilbog is there anyway we can get a confirmation on this? On the pet post level 20 thing? Also on the pet not casting spells until late May? Thank you! Would suck mage groups running around with stun casting water pets at 4+ right off the bat.

Gandite
10-13-2019, 01:08 PM
Just watched a level 6 mage solo 3 mobs + 2 adds all at once in qeynos hills outside blackburrow. 3 gnolls, gnoll hunter, and putrid skellie. I am a level 9 monk struggling to solo blue cons. This is green beta btw.

Mage groups are gonna steamroll.

Aaramis
10-13-2019, 01:14 PM
Just watched a level 6 mage solo 3 mobs + 2 adds all at once in qeynos hills outside blackburrow. 3 gnolls, gnoll hunter, and putrid skellie. I am a level 9 monk struggling to solo blue cons. This is green beta btw.

Mage groups are gonna steamroll.

If it's any consolation, mob dps begins to quickly outpace the pet's ability to withstand it.

You won't see a 30+ mage doing that, that's for sure. Maybe not even a 20+.

Dolalin
10-13-2019, 01:35 PM
Clasically, mage pets would run from red con mobs (red con to the *pet*) until 1-2 months post launch. Not sure that's a brokenness the staff are interested in replicating though so I haven't reported it.

Chortles Snort|eS
10-13-2019, 01:42 PM
highEst gReEN bEta PlayER is a LvL 25 MagE ATM (BeTA iS 15hrs old? [x10] XP ratE)

Dolalin
10-13-2019, 02:04 PM
I've made a bug thread with compiled evidence for mage pets being research-only after 20th level until the May 1999 era.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336142

Hagglebaron
10-13-2019, 02:12 PM
I just want to know which, if any changes will be accepted, so I can decide whether to avoid mage like the plague or not lol. Kind of sucks since I had my heart set on maining one, but I don't want to play a gimped class with an uncertain future.

skorge
10-13-2019, 03:44 PM
If it's any consolation, mob dps begins to quickly outpace the pet's ability to withstand it.

You won't see a 30+ mage doing that, that's for sure. Maybe not even a 20+.

If this was March 1999, a mage could barely solo a single mob. I actually played one. Mage pets were pure crap back then. You HAD to group if you were mage, even at lower levels...mages were that bad.

Niedar
10-13-2019, 03:53 PM
Try harder, I don't think its happening.

Dolalin
10-13-2019, 03:54 PM
Skorge: do you remember what they changed in October 1999 to give higher level mage pets a different appearance?

Like for necros they made the skeletons dark boned. Did they just make the elementals bigger or what?

I'm working on another bug submission.

skorge
10-13-2019, 04:34 PM
Skorge: do you remember what they changed in October 1999 to give higher level mage pets a different appearance?

Like for necros they made the skeletons dark boned. Did they just make the elementals bigger or what?

I'm working on another bug submission.

No, unfortunately I rolled a druid and never looked back. What sucks is I probably would have took the mage to 50 if the pets were in-game then. I was so frustrated I deleted my mage character (probably a week before that late May patch lol).

I wish I could help answer your question man, sorry!

randal.flagg
10-13-2019, 05:30 PM
If this was March 1999, a mage could barely solo a single mob. I actually played one. Mage pets were pure crap back then. You HAD to group if you were mage, even at lower levels...mages were that bad.

Ya - i played a mage @ kunark release and it was really hard to solo, even at lower levels.... but i also didn't know what i'm doing.

DMN
10-13-2019, 05:40 PM
Fire pet, spam nukes when mob hits 40%.
Resummon fire pet.
Repeat.

I think too many mages back then worried about keeping their pets alive. they thought their pets precious instead of disposable.

My best friend played a mage from day one and just like me he had bad series levels where he was having to use a very old pet. But eventually he got a better one. it's just how things were back then when you were praying for research mats and then praying you put the right things in the book, then praying for a third time that combine works.

Edit: there was also a trick that not many mages realized they could use when their pets were really weak and had not been upgraded in a while thus would refuse to fight mobs. You basically just let the mob attack you first then the pet will fight no matter what.

Quinas
10-13-2019, 06:20 PM
Sure, you rush ahead then you hit diminishing returns and you end up with a CotH bot.

Sweet.