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Hrothgaar
10-04-2019, 06:30 AM
Hi all,

I am pretty unexperienced in EQ but would like to switch over to green as well.
In blue I had the most fun while crawling in Dungeons and would like to put more emphasize in this area on green.

I am looking for a class that is useful in a group down there AND able to visit dungeons alone if needed, camping some named or getting a quest item for example.

Most classes are ruled out for different reasons and I am stuck with mainly:

- Bard & Shadowknight

Which of these would be stronger in the dungeon environment (Group and Solo?) and most importantly: Why?

I am unsure about adding Shaman and Druid to the mix as well, would they be suited?


For this consideration I am not looking at exp penalties or unavailability of spots to camp. Its just about the classes ad the environment in general.

Tenlaar
10-04-2019, 06:48 AM
Of the classes you've listed here, I would put the order for easy dungeon play at SK - Shaman - Bard - Druid. The main difference between the SK and shaman is that the SK is going to be able to get around easier, but the shaman will generally have an easier time killing once you're where you want to be and set up. It largely comes down to how heavily you weight group vs. solo play, I think.

SK has a lot of tools for moving around in dungeons safely - both invis and invis vs undead combined with FD and the ability to survive doing things like run through a room with a see invis mob to the hallway on the other side, FD, and re-invis to keep moving. Also has snare to keep runners from being a problem. But the DPS is obviously not going to be great and fear kiting usually isn't an option, so when it comes to soloing it can be slow and painful.

Shaman isn't going to have as easy of a time getting to dungeon spots, only having regular invis, and will have to kill their way past anything that's going to see invis. Once at a camp, though, the shaman is going to be more capable of actually killing the mobs at a good rate when solo. A shaman is especially going to be your best bet (probably only bet, honestly) here for trying to tackle named dungeon camps solo. Plus, the ability to bind yourself outside of a dungeon and gate there when needed for whatever reason shouldn't be overlooked. Huge quality of life perk.

Bard is great in general, and can be really awesome in a dungeon group, but solo it's a lot trickier. You have invis and lull to get around decently well if you're careful (and not unlucky) but the problem is that a bard doing anything solo usually requires one important thing - room to move. Depending on the particular dungeon and camp, you are likely not going to have much room to be mobile and may have to rely on things like meleeing a mob and then using mez while you regen up. At the higher levels charm definitely makes things a little easier, but you're still going to be down in a dungeon without gate, FD, or root. If something goes wrong, most of the time it's going to go "now you're dead" kind of wrong.

Quick edit just to make sure that this point stands out - if going down into a dungeon to solo named camps is something that is important to you, the answer to your question is shaman. Hands down. Great and always valued in any group and by far the best solo ability, likely being the only class you listed capable of soloing named mobs.

Coridan
10-04-2019, 06:56 AM
Monks are pretty frequently in dungeons all by themselves, and are still wanted by groups. Maybe not as much before Kunark as far as soloing in there but honestly pre-Kunark I don't think anyone is gonna have the gear/ability to solo camps inside dungeons, plus the dungeons will be a bit more crowded so there won't be a need to solo them. Especially Lower Guk and SolB. Perma and Kedge will probably still be empty most of the time.

Baler
10-04-2019, 07:02 AM
Bard and SK are good in dungeons... in a group, trio or duo.
Bard gets thing liks lull, mez, charm.
SK gets snap agro spells and feign death.

You may get more milage out of the bard, simply because people go bananas for the mana song and such. However SK is arguably the best tank for trash mobs. Life tap can help keep it topped off and it's feign death can help break the trickier rooms.

Druid,.. in a group? Skip it for a cleric. There is a 10% penalty on heals for non-cleric classes. in classic, with classic gear you'll want a cleric as the healer. shaman are pretty gear dependent, they'll be slow and painful in classic.

SK will have the harshest exp penalty till 2001 January patch

Chortles Snort|eS
10-04-2019, 07:06 AM
SK has a lot of tools for moving around in dungeons safely - both invis and invis vs undead combined with FD and the ability to survive doing things like run through a room with a see invis mob to the hallway on the other side, FD, and re-invis to keep moving. Also has snare to keep runners from being a problem.

Izmael
10-04-2019, 07:19 AM
SK is a really, really fun class to play. It's not the best dungeon crawler (TLDR: enchanter is best 99% of the time), but you have a ton of fun spells, you get to look cool in plate, you get to wield badass looking swords. You can use the Circlet of Shadow, an incredibly powerful insta-invis item.

You are also great in groups, as long as defensive discipline isn't required, which almost never is. You can snap gain aggro which is a big advatage over a monk or a warrior, and you can snare.

Lots of options for soloing especially as you get better gear.

The weak point of the SK is: you have low DPS. You'll just have to live with it and work around it (or make some friends).

Deathrydar
10-04-2019, 07:23 AM
Shadow Knight, in my opinion, is the most underrated and misunderstood class in the game. I know players that know how to play the hell out of the class and they truly shine!

Aaramis
10-04-2019, 07:45 AM
SK dps isn't *that* bad, is it?

Tenlaar
10-04-2019, 07:47 AM
It is bottom of the barrel, yes. Especially on a fresh server with no weapon twinkage going on.

Izmael
10-04-2019, 07:54 AM
SK dps isn't *that* bad, is it?

Everything is relative. Post 50, SK's DPS really starts to suck compared to mobs' DPS, and SK has to soak in the damage from the mob in order to deal damage to it (except fear kiting of course).

Solo is still doable, of course, especially with a good 2 hander, fungi and lots of AC, but it quickly becomes painfully slow and boring.

Tecmos Deception
10-04-2019, 07:57 AM
Thread about dungeon crawling without necro or enchanter permitted. Wtf.

Of your choices though, bard or SK are probably both ... uh ... as okay as is possible since you ruled out the only two classes that actually meet your criteria, especially on a day 1 classic server. I guess shaman is ok. I think folks who talk about shaman solo tend to forget that it isn't, imo, better than "mediocre" for the majority of classic, though they are a great class overall and have cool perks and are loved in groups.

Solo dungeon bards are very tricky. Solo dungeon SKs will be fairly painful due to classic day 1 gear. In groups, both can be great, but it's kind of up in the air imo how groups will tend to feel about these classes instead of other options.

Crede
10-04-2019, 08:05 AM
A green SK with classic gear and shitty weapons is not going to be crawling dungeons solo, or If they are it’s gonna be at a snails pace. It’s bard by a long shot starting at 27 when you get charm the world is your playground you have all the tools at that point just focus on recharm timing and swapping in heal song when needed and keeping the uncharmed mob dotted. Always recharm the one that wasn’t just your pet. Focus on 2 at a time if you get more try to keep a 3rd/4th mezzed depending on your skill level and just getting one of them dead as quickly as possible without focusing on xp to get back to 2.

This is a part of barding many miss out on but it’s when the real fun begins IMO.

Tecmos Deception
10-04-2019, 08:54 AM
A green SK with classic gear and shitty weapons is not going to be crawling dungeons solo, or If they are it’s gonna be at a snails pace. It’s bard by a long shot starting at 27 when you get charm the world is your playground you have all the tools at that point just focus on recharm timing and swapping in heal song when needed and keeping the uncharmed mob dotted. Always recharm the one that wasn’t just your pet. Focus on 2 at a time if you get more try to keep a 3rd/4th mezzed depending on your skill level and just getting one of them dead as quickly as possible without focusing on xp to get back to 2.

This is a part of barding many miss out on but it’s when the real fun begins IMO.

Do dots on the uncharmed mob mean the bard always has aggro?

Hrothgaar
10-04-2019, 09:51 AM
Most of you have not mentioned the fourth Druid option, does this mean Druids are so bad in this area its not even worth thinking of?

Vexenu
10-04-2019, 10:24 AM
Druid indoors offers very little solo. Decent in a Classic group as they can heal and snare while throwing in some nukes. Necro is really your best bet if you want any type of solo dungeon power, especially as a relatively inexperienced player. Feign death, normal and undead invis, root, DoTs, lifetaps, pet, undead charm. It's a great toolkit that gives you a lot of flexibility.

Crede
10-04-2019, 10:24 AM
Do dots on the uncharmed mob mean the bard always has aggro?

Yes but when charm breaks and you charm the other mob and have it attack your old pet, it will instantly pull aggro and you won’t get attacked. This is why bards are the ultimate dungeon crawlers 27-50. 2 mobs fighting each other and stacking bard dots on top of them.

I just made another bard on blue to exclusively grind in dungeons/zones I’ve never really stepped foot in. It’s a blast IMO.

soronil
10-04-2019, 10:42 AM
In blue I had the most fun while crawling in Dungeons

able to visit dungeons alone if needed,

Stay on blue if you want to solo dungeon crawl.

I don't think you really understand how much different this is going to be on green. Both due to gear, and due to all the "day 1 classic" changes that have already been put in that we know about(hotbars, pet window, tab cycling) , and the ones we haven't seen yet (brightness, first person, who knows what else )

There is no "dungeon crawling solo" on green. Melee's do not have the damage. The casters that can solo efficiently don't have the CC for it. And sure, you can lull/mez/charm as an enchanter on green, but you're going to die so much it's not going to be worthwhile.

Hrothgaar
10-04-2019, 10:55 AM
I joined ALS as soon as I started on blue at Lvl 1 so gear and power wise it will be no difference for me.
Also I am playing in First Person the entire time as well and select targets by klicking on them anyways, not using some "Cycle next" key and have the old UI in place, not custom ones. :-)

On Blue I have a lvl 37 Enchanter for the reason of the Dungeon Crawls (mostly with 1 or more friends, when time is short or no one is around I go solo as well) but I would like to look at a different class on green.
(Besides I dont feel very satisfied getting new caster items, I am more happy about new armor and weapons :-))

Hoppkins_Wytchfinder
10-04-2019, 11:32 AM
Stay on blue if you want to solo dungeon crawl.

I don't think you really understand how much different this is going to be on green. Both due to gear, and due to all the "day 1 classic" changes that have already been put in that we know about(hotbars, pet window, tab cycling) , and the ones we haven't seen yet (brightness, first person, who knows what else )

There is no "dungeon crawling solo" on green. Melee's do not have the damage. The casters that can solo efficiently don't have the CC for it. And sure, you can lull/mez/charm as an enchanter on green, but you're going to die so much it's not going to be worthwhile.

This. WHen i first started EQ which was when kunark came out soloing was something i only ever saw druids/bards. I'm sure it was possible but damn the difficulty was something else compared.

BlackBellamy
10-04-2019, 12:18 PM
Hi all,

I am pretty unexperienced in EQ...In blue I had the most fun while crawling in Dungeons=

So because you are inexperienced and what you did experience was on blue, let me tell you what no one has mentioned above. There will be no dungeon crawling. The zones will be very crowded and every camp will be static. Your dungeon crawl will consist of trying to get to your group, or you and your group trying to get to some spot and once you get there you will sit in that one room for hours and hours. In EQ classic with lots of people and limited zones there will be no opportunity for a group to crawl through a dungeon. Every room you pass through is going to be camped until you get to your spot.

Hrothgaar
10-04-2019, 03:21 PM
Maybe in the first months but the Server will last a few years and I am leveling super slow. Thats the reason I wrote in my initial post to ignore Exp penalty or population. There are plenty of other threads to post these kind of opinion.

zaneosak
10-04-2019, 03:57 PM
I would focus more on what class you want to play by the merit of what the class can accomplish and go away from dungeon crawling. Most "dungeon crawling" in Classic Era EVerquest consists of you clearing to your camp if it's even necessary. Usually there is so many groups in a dungeon (especially a high XP or high loot spot) that the mobs will all be dead and you will travel to your group and that will be it.

I doubt you'll be able to hold a camp by yourself in a dungeon that won't be challenged by a group of 3-6 players that will accuse you of not keeping the camp down (which is required to hold the camp)

That being said. I had most fun on my necro when it came to solo content. There is so many ways to solo as a necro. Root rot, Fear kite, Charm undead, Lifetap tank with skele pet. So you don't get bored much. It's also relatively easy to get to a camp for an item you want (invis and invis undead available) you can train to your camp, FD off the mobs, stand up and prep your break and hold any camp for the most part.

Have fun!

bigjeff100
10-04-2019, 04:06 PM
Hroth- I feel like we just grouped recently in Chardok.... No??

BlackBellamy
10-04-2019, 04:08 PM
Maybe in the first months but the Server will last a few years and I am leveling super slow. Thats the reason I wrote in my initial post to ignore Exp penalty or population. There are plenty of other threads to post these kind of opinion.

See right above? There are others saying this, we know what we're talking about. Don't weigh crawling in your class selection :)

Dungeons will open up when Kunark drops. Old world zones will become empty overnight. SK would be an overwhelming choice for me, Bards are more open-world when solo.