Guildwar

[mourning]

Please let us know if guildwar will be in? It needs to be.

Thank yew.

Craft Keeper of golden enchantments//Heretic of the ninth layer of hell

(Erudite)

[Baler]

I approve this thread

[Nirgon]

Trainin these boys on lore, it's coming along

Make it classic

[loramin]

Guys I 100% want /guildwar too, but let's be a little practical here: no guilds of level 1s are going to be guild war-ing each other on day one of Green :)

And really, it's going to be a long time before there are even two guilds on Green significant enough to be worth fighting with. But even then, the first real (not just experimenting with the command) guild war likely won't happen anytime close to that.

You and your 20+ best friends just got your toons up to "high" (post-40) levels, after months of incredibly difficult leveling on Green (eg. get ready for double XP loss from deaths). Are you going to go camp the hell out of Sol B and Guk? Try and take on a dragon? Or ... do something that will only prevent you from making further loot/XP gains?

/guildwar will be awesome, and with all the interest in it people have expressed lately I'd be surprised if Nilbog didn't add it someday ... unless there's some technical limit (which would explain why it hasn't happened already ... but it doesn't seem like it should be impossible, since we have other sort-of-similar mechanisms like the PoD book and Red).

Heck, it might actually be the heart of the secret PvP solution Rogean has in mind. Maybe the staff is tired of having two servers, and just wants PvP to happen within one? Honestly that sounds like a win for everyone to me. Non PvPers won't care if some people fight on their server (free entertainment), PvPers get to PvP, but never have to worry about their characters rotting on a "dead Red" server (no matter how few PvPers there are they'll still always have an economy, people to help them with quests, etc). The staff only has to support one server instead of two ...

But however they decide to do it, maybe let the staff worry about level 1s overcrowding starting zones and concerns like that. Green launch is not the ideal time for /guildwar.

[Nirgon]

We want players to resolve disputes amongst themselves


Give us the classic tools to do so? I'd use /guildwar every time to resolve things rather than deal with ur ridiculous rules about no shadowsteps or scale of wolf in these "races" lol

People will be camping dungeons hardcore within a day

Having classic features ready for launch, man this is exactly the time not the wrong time. I don't think it's a huge ask to make this one work either. Or so the RoZ devs said?

[loramin]

We want players to resolve disputes amongst themselves


Give us the classic tools to do so?

People will be camping dungeons hardcore within a day

Having classic features ready for launch, man this is exactly the time not the wrong time

In a perfect world where we have a company of thousands of programmers supporting us? Sure. But in the real world, with our tiny 100% volunteer staff, do you truly feel being able to /guildwar on day 1 is more important than other classic stuff (eg. getting the lighting working)?

I'm not saying "/guidlwar sucks", I'm just saying, anything the devs do has an opportunity cost of not doing something else. They have to prioritize, and I just don't think adding /guildwar before it's practical to use it is a priority.

[Nirgon]

This should be a minor implementation compared to most things like bard stacking and dark night time

It's also a core classic feature

[loramin]

I honestly don't know how minor it is, but it can't be too minor: this is not the first time the command has been mentioned, and if it was that easy the staff would have done it long ago.

Plus, again, there's classic /guildwar implementation, and there's Rogean's plans for the future of PvP. If the two are connected (100% Loramin speculation), the staff has more to figure out than just how to make /guildwar work classically (ie. the logistics of how it and any other PvP stuff they have planned will interact, not just the code).

But you completely ignored my larger point: wishing the staff would do more doesn't make them capable of doing more. And you also didn't answer:
do you truly feel being able to /guildwar on day 1 is more important than other classic stuff (eg. getting the lighting working)?

[Nirgon]

You gotta know you're talking to someone who would delay launch until everything was done

I'm not like the rest

[loramin]

Touche :)

But I think the staff are pretty committed to the date at this point.

EDIT: As the hardcore PvPer I know you are, I'm curious what you and other Red-heads think of my (100% baseless) idea of PvPers sharing a server with "Bluebies"? Is it an all around win like I imagine, or would you hate it for some reason (eg. because it would be hard to tell who you could PvP with)? Of course I realize the devil would be in the details, but I just mean in general.

[Nirgon]

Guild war is consentual and classic

I wouldn't force PVP on bluebies on a blue box

I dunno how much I need to get into explaining why but I've told shamans in group to "please haste" and had sensitive types here completely erupt over that

Getting blinded and beat down while waiting for a boat and them missing it cuz of corpse recovery is gonna make most bluebs quit

This is more for letting players with a serious disagreement/feud duke it out instead of play who broke what asinine rule and if circumstances permitted it

VP trains for days were great and all but, too much burnout for 99% of pop. PVP resolves so much more quickly by comparison.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

We want players to resolve disputes amongst themselves

Brad bleSs 👏🏽🙏🏽🙌🏽

[Nirgon]

I think loramin knows how far things go here between guilds and why /guildwar is better than trying to hold a staff pal perfectly accountable when reviewing tape and the current rule set.

We are looking for an option to cut thru the bs and petitionquest.

(And classic implementation)

[loramin]

I wouldn't force PVP on bluebies on a blue box

Yeah, I meant like co-exist: one part of the server PvPs, and one part doesn't, and they can both benefit from each other's existence (PvPers can group, trade with, etc. each non-PvPers).

/guildwars could sort of be that. Imagine if there were two large guilds in a guild war: for many practical purposes that's 2/3 of a Sullon Zek, inside of a non-Zek server :)

I'm not entirely sure about the grouping part. Imagine if 4 "blue" people are grouped with 2 "red" (/guildwar-ing) people, and some other "red" (opposing) people come along and kill them. The bluebies might wipe because they unexpectedly lost two members, and that sort of thing might discourage bluebies from grouping with reds.

Still, the blues and reds could trade, and the staff would have one less server to deal with ...

And then of course you could let your imagination go wild with custom "near classic" versions (on Blue only). To get a non-team "Zek" on a Blue server you could make the PoD books work a little differently, with more Zek-like rules, for instance. Or you could add a /pvpall command which is like turning in your book in for a day. During that time you can't see non-PvP characters, but you can kill other /pvpall people (and loot coin/items whatever).

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Imagine PVp zoNeS on Green

Big lol

[loramin]

Imagine PVp zoNeS on Green

Big lol

There's kinda precedent: VP on Blue in the no GMs/training times ;)

[Nirgon]

I don't want a single custom solution to exist

Guild war gives us a consentual, classic, working system


See I think the best defense to all criticisms is "we made it classic, the end" and take it or leave it

99%(?) of the time I see these community revolts that they're all gonna quit cuz the compass, buff timers, druid track nerf etc happen - they don't follow through and learn to appreciate "really playing" classic EQ and it's nostalgic pain points. That's what got this whole thing started right?


I think we need big Haynar

[Baler]

Was there exp loss in guild war pvp?

[Fammaden]

All the reds can just roll on green and turn in their discord books. Have a fun time.

[Secrets]

/guildwar is technically in the client, just not hooked up to a slash command. Would be trivial to implement.

[Nirgon]

/guildwar is technically in the client, just not hooked up to a slash command. Would be trivial to implement.

They let you touch da source?

Pls gief

[iamnotsalem]

Loramin the issue with us all being on one server is i cant kill you. Thats an issue. Im a red player and /guildwar wouldnt make me play blue.

[mourning]

bump

thank yew

[loramin]

Loramin the issue with us all being on one server is i cant kill you. Thats an issue. Im a red player and /guildwar wouldnt make me play blue.

You're assuming I would never join a /guildwar guild :)

Now to be fair, I likely won't, or at least not initially. But I certainly wouldn't rule it out either. After all I did try playing on Red a couple times, before getting griefed off, and just because I gave up then doesn't mean I'm not interested in trying a viable (ie. no fungi-wearing de-leveled gankers) PvP system.

[iamnotsalem]

dense

and sad, lol

[JesterMcgee]

/guildwar as a replacement way to settle disputes is not a good idea. It sounds like a fun feature if you're using it to get good pvp in, but using it to lower the number of petitions would backfire hard.

[Bazia]

/guildwar as a replacement way to settle disputes is not a good idea. It sounds like a fun feature if you're using it to get good pvp in, but using it to lower the number of petitions would backfire hard.

kinda funny considering the resist code on blue, you will be getting whirl'd 100-0 by a nude enc toon

[loramin]

what happened to you on red?

have we had this conversation already?

Possibly? There's not too much to tell: I started an Iksar (Necromancer I think?) and tried to level him up. Got to like level 2 or 3 in Field of Bone, and then a fungi-wearing (presumably de-leveled) griefer showed up and repeatedly killed me. I lost interest in Red.

I'm sure lots of people will think "git gud", and that's fine if they do. But personally I'm not at all against MMOG PvP (I played on a PvP server in WoW and did LOTS of battlegrounds, I played the only RTS MMOG, Shattered Galaxies, heavilly, etc.)

In my opinion any good PvP system encourages real fights between two opponents that each have a reasonable chance of defeating each other. If your system leads to some asshole killing newbs over and over until the noobs quit (for the day, or from the server), I think the system needs improvement.

And that's why I think having "teams" of some sort is great (almost essential) to PvP, because it inherently "channels" that griefer energy in more productive ways ... and that's why I think /guildwar is exciting.