No expansion server

[oqrelord]

Would a server that stops right before kunark release get old fast?

Looking at the timeline, I really love how limited and differently balanced the original game was.

No fungi, no crazy twink weapons, few clickies, less haste availability.

It really makes the game feel rewarding when you get xyz item, that when kunark and velious come out - turn into vendor fodder.


Original classic best in slot would be interesting to work towards...

[El-Hefe]

I've never played vanilla, I started at Kunark launch.

The only part that makes me feel like it'd get old is how much I hate the OG 45+ dungeons. LGuk, SolB and Perma are all just the absolute worst.

Other than that, it'd probably be okay.

[Gustoo]

It wouldn't get old for me but the game is certainly less time consuming to max out in classic world.

Classic is the game they intended to make and Kunark is what they had to make to give crack addicts more to do.

Making 90% of old world content obsolete is sad and hurts the real progression of the game because with kunark you can get weapons for like 100pp that are twice as good as OG end game weapons.

Class balance and basically everything is better in classic.

A way better progression would have been to fill in the old world with quests slowly overtime to make the world richer. There are a lot of incomplete quests and NPCs that don't quite do anything. These things could add content and progression beyond the original classic without hurting classic class balance and making so much content irrelevant.

Verant didn't do this because people are way less likely to pay for more quests than a new playable race that is OP for 2 classes and about 2x the physical real estate. They just got more bang for the development buck and weren't too worried about the long term consequences. I am sure they would have laughed at the idea of a buncha weirdos playing their 20 year old game right now talking about these decisions.

[Fammaden]

I've never played vanilla, I started at Kunark launch.

The only part that makes me feel like it'd get old is how much I hate the OG 45+ dungeons. LGuk, SolB and Perma are all just the absolute worst.

Other than that, it'd probably be okay.

Those dungeons are masterpieces of old school DnD style dungeon mapping and full of good lore, art, and danger. The thing that might get old for most is how crowded and limited in content the old world ends up being for a thriving server pop.

You could definitely go another year of vanilla IMO though. Just farming those dungeons, the raid mobs, the planes, to get your guild geared out before Kunark. Would be fun really but I understand the three year approach is the simplest and most direct plan.

[Mblake81]

It is less time consuming to "beat" and reduces real estate but I like the pre kunark character balance better and I think it is a more complete world.

I would also play a permament classic only server that eventually adds more quests to fill out the half empty content we see throughout classic world norrath. So same real estate but more fully utilized.

I agree. Original EQ was a cohesive experience. I too would play on a server like you describe if it stayed 100% faithful to the original game but just fixed some of the bugs and finished up the quests that were missing. Someone had a list once, iirc it was a good many that didn't make it in.

Classic is the game they intended to make and Kunark is what they had to make to give crack addicts more to do.

Things got silly starting with Kunark.

A P99 Black Server (classic only) would be nice. Original client.

[soronil]

You do have a full year of vanilla. seems like plenty of time to do what you need to do. Do you think it should be a revolving server, like green? How long before you reboot the server? And would people really be in the mood to reboot so soon? At least by start of green 2.0 people may be more interested in jumping back in (After 2+ years since the last vanilla experience)

The timeline towards the end of green seems a bit weird though.
We have:
12 months of vanilla
7 months of kunark
18 months of velious ??

I would think at the time of the last patch (the time green reaches blue patch) you should just merge it and reboot green. Then Green is in vanilla for a higher % of each cycle. Probably more people are playing green for Vanilla than they are for "fresh velious" right?

[Danth]

Those dungeons are masterpieces of old school DnD style dungeon mapping and full of good lore, art, and danger.

I agree that some of those old dungeons are masterpieces of design. I disagree about the art however. I've always felt like EQ's graphics weren't *quite* good enough to pull off what the developers wanted to do. Mistmoore Castle is exhibit A: It's obviously trying to be a dark spooky dracula-style castle, complete with the long narrow pathway crawling up the cliffside to the main gate....but the limited graphic quality and framerate concerns forcing a limited vista simply don't do the vision justice. On the other side of it, a few places like Najena are so horror-inspired in design that with more modern graphic quality they might well have earned the game an "M" rating due to the dismembered corpses and gore everywhere. I accept it in spite of its flaws because I don't need superb graphics to enjoy a game, but I'm not blind to that flaw either. Modernized graphics using the SAME** graphic style as the original would be a sight to behold.

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I like the old world's general design best of the three periods P99 covers. The main limitation with the old world is the relative lack of content. It's a fun game but it can't effectively support as many people as (especially) the Velious era can. Lower Guk is a great zone, but it's not a great time when there's 100 people in there. A timelocked pre-expansion server works best if there's a lower population or some sort of layering/etc in place to handle population overload.

Danth

**Therein lies the rub: It's exceedingly rare for anyone modernizing an older game to be able to resist the urge to....tinker with it.

[Zeboim]

I take issue with the class balance remark, but otherwise agree. Not that Kunark-Velious are masterpieces of class balance or anything, but Classic did melee pretty dirty.

Kunark has way too many 'Giant Open Areas packed with dozens of random level specific roamers' that screws up the leveling flow/crafted feel of the game, however.

[Deathrydar]

I agree that some of those old dungeons are masterpieces of design. I disagree about the art however. I've always felt like EQ's graphics weren't *quite* good enough to pull off what the developers wanted to do. Mistmoore Castle is exhibit A: It's obviously trying to be a dark spooky dracula-style castle, complete with the long narrow pathway crawling up the cliffside to the main gate....but the limited graphic quality and framerate concerns forcing a limited vista simply don't do the vision justice. On the other side of it, a few places like Najena are so horror-inspired in design that with more modern graphic quality they might well have earned the game an "M" rating due to the dismembered corpses and gore everywhere. I accept it in spite of its flaws because I don't need superb graphics to enjoy a game, but I'm not blind to that flaw either. Modernized graphics using the SAME** graphic style as the original would be a sight to behold.

--------------------------------------------------

I like the old world's general design best of the three periods P99 covers. The main limitation with the old world is the relative lack of content. It's a fun game but it can't effectively support as many people as (especially) the Velious era can. Lower Guk is a great zone, but it's not a great time when there's 100 people in there. A timelocked pre-expansion server works best if there's a lower population or some sort of layering/etc in place to handle population overload.

Danth

**Therein lies the rub: It's exceedingly rare for anyone modernizing an older game to be able to resist the urge to....tinker with it.
I always dreamed of someone recreating EverQuest classic, but with update graphics. Imagine that! I know it's impossible, but imagine it..

[Mblake81]

Modernized graphics using the SAME** graphic style as the original would be a sight to behold.

--------------------------------------------------

I like the old world's general design best of the three periods P99 covers. The main limitation with the old world is the relative lack of content. It's a fun game but it can't effectively support as many people as (especially) the Velious era can.

Yeah, I have wondered what a modern engine with the same style would look like. A rendering would be enough to get excited, there are some on the wiki. Also consider part of the charm was the flaws and the original engine.

Edit: Link to the wiki page renderings (https://wiki.project1999.com/Fan_Art_and_Creative_Works#toddfx_3d_renderings)

500 people playing is more than enough friends, single server experience.

https://i.imgur.com/qChDTxw.jpg

[El-Hefe]

Those dungeons are masterpieces of old school DnD style dungeon mapping and full of good lore, art, and danger. The thing that might get old for most is how crowded and limited in content the old world ends up being for a thriving server pop.

You could definitely go another year of vanilla IMO though. Just farming those dungeons, the raid mobs, the planes, to get your guild geared out before Kunark. Would be fun really but I understand the three year approach is the simplest and most direct plan.

Just too cramped, windy, confusing and single colored for my tastes. There are Vanilla dungeons that I absolutely love (Unrest, Mistmoore, SolA (Gnomes, mostly) and Blackburrow), it’s just the highest end dungeons in vanilla that I find... lacking.

Now, Kunark has it’s own issues, namely many of the dungeons require you to crawl through it to an exit that is separate from the entrance. But overall I think they’re easier to navigate without the benefit of years of memorization.

[Jibartik]

Yeah, I have wondered what a modern engine with the same style would look like. A rendering would be enough to get excited, there are some on the wiki. Also consider part of the charm was the flaws and the original engine.

Edit: Link to the wiki page renderings (https://wiki.project1999.com/Fan_Art_and_Creative_Works#toddfx_3d_renderings)

500 people playing is more than enough friends, single server experience.

https://i.imgur.com/qChDTxw.jpg

This guys is the only guy I would trust to update EQ. And I barely trust him, even with all this proof haha :o

[Wenai]

I would actually love a server locked to purely classic. I love Kunark as well, but despise Velious

[Cyph]

Yeah, I have wondered what a modern engine with the same style would look like. A rendering would be enough to get excited, there are some on the wiki. Also consider part of the charm was the flaws and the original engine.

Edit: Link to the wiki page renderings (https://wiki.project1999.com/Fan_Art_and_Creative_Works#toddfx_3d_renderings)

500 people playing is more than enough friends, single server experience.

https://i.imgur.com/qChDTxw.jpg

Damn, I do like those. I would be down for that. Really seems like the next step for this "classic" experience, a way to keep it alive post all this :)

[El-Hefe]

I would actually love a server locked to purely classic. I love Kunark as well, but despise Velious

I’m genuinely curious why.

I like Velious a lot, only big downside I could see is power creep in a non-classic timeline.

[zodias]

Lower guk was great in classic. But now 20 years later, with the knowledge people have it's going to be a mess. I've played a couple classic servers and given right group, a single group can clear and hold dead side. It's not fun and it's going to cause some headaches.
There's going to be a line at guise, a line at mana stone and then 3 groups fighting over undead frogs.

[Nagoya]

i would love a server locked in the classic era, but with tons of custom content, extra zones, extra quests, extra items everywhere, but playing with diversity instead of power gap, basically adding stats and procs and clickies instead of upping the AC or weapon ratio. kunark could be just a single zone. that i would play to a divorce-dangerous level ^^;

http://wiki.project1999.com/Zones

i mean look at all these cool potential zones:
The Northlands,
The Frigid Plains,
Broken Skull Rock,
Winters Deep,
The Dead Hill,
Th Grand Plateau of Odus,
The Barren Coast,
The Loping Plains,
Dragonscale Hills,
etc.

INFINITE POTENTIAL

[Wenai]

I’m genuinely curious why.

I like Velious a lot, only big downside I could see is power creep in a non-classic timeline.

I think Velious as an expansion just had less charm. Most gear was completely outclassed from Kunark. The power creep was pretty massive when you really look at it. Getting gear became a lot less interesting (farm trash mobs for quest drops and turn them in). The idea of "choosing a faction" was pretty interesting, but what you actually do with those factions was meh.

I just love classic/kunark because they felt "immersive" to 13yo me. Whereas I felt Velious started the "power-gaming" trend. Much less nostalgic for me.

[Rooj]

I've always wanted a Classic only server. I joined P99 too late, not long before Kunark launched. Would be interesting to see what it's like to be capped at 50 lol. That said, I do love Kunark and was glad that Blue was stuck in it for so long. When Velious finally launched, I was kinda just like eh, why again did we want this? Though it does have some great QoL features like less competitive Epics and abolishment of silly pointless hybrid penalties. I feel like the outdoor Classic and Kunark zones are much better designed and have more purpose. As for raiding, I feel like Classic and Kunark raiding is a lot less time consuming and even more fun than ToV... IMO it's more fun to fight large groups of mobs like in Hate/Fear than fighting 1 large trash dragon at a time in ToV.

[El-Hefe]

I think Velious as an expansion just had less charm. Most gear was completely outclassed from Kunark. The power creep was pretty massive when you really look at it. Getting gear became a lot less interesting (farm trash mobs for quest drops and turn them in). The idea of "choosing a faction" was pretty interesting, but what you actually do with those factions was meh.

I just love classic/kunark because they felt "immersive" to 13yo me. Whereas I felt Velious started the "power-gaming" trend. Much less nostalgic for me.

Well you can’t disagree with opinions. When Velious launched my main was only in his mid twenties, yet I still bought the xpac anyway. However being a Rogue I was able to make the terrifying journey to Thurgadin without any problems. There wasn’t much for me to do there of course, but just getting there at all felt like a massive achievement. The whole continent seemed epic and mysterious. It also felt like a perfectly logical “most difficult place in Norrath” as anything that could survive way out in the middle of a barren tundra had to be crazy strong. It also felt really properly isolated because of the way the ice dwarfs treated everyone the same. It absolutely blew my mind seeing iksar running around in a city.

I didn’t max out my character and get my Epic until Luclin came out, so I never really had much experience with the quest gear and end game. I don’t remember anyone being incredibly over powered because of Velious, but after experiencing Blue it’s obvious how that could happen without a realistic timeline.

But yeah, it’s not my favorite, that’ll always be Kunark but I really see it as an important part of making Norrath feel “whole”, whatever that means.

[Secrets]

I would love a server that continues the game design as it was in Classic, putting an emphasis on crafting and exploration instead of level cap and stat inflation.

The problem is a majority of people would (likely) find it boring.

[Jadian]

I'd play it since it's my favorite era by far, but I wouldn't expect it to maintain any sort of population

[Widan]

Get rid of red finally and make purple classic only. Velious completely ruins pvp for casters anyways.