Question, Re: "Lists"

[Natewest1987]

Is there going to be anything in place to prevent list abuse?

Couple scenarios I can think of...

- PC unable to kill said spawn comes and puts name on list, sits in zone till higher lvl does it. Is the expectation that if we see a lvl 1 on the list we petition for a GM? What if that toon is under roleplay or anon and simply out of sight / invis and therefore can't even be /conned?

- PC puts name on list & brings group of friends who also put their names on the list to discourage other players from sitting around and waiting and can therefore pass the item off to whomever or whichever alt they want after looting it a couple times. Are you going to sit in zone, near spawn camp waiting for an item to drop if there are 4 or 5 people ahead of you ?

- I'm assuming this would be disabled for raid targets?

[zaneosak]

I cant find the posts right now but one of the admins or mods replied to an older thread about this list thing and said there was limitations. You have to been in the zone, be able to hold the camp, etc. etc.

[Wurl]

They also said you'd have to be in an appropriate level range to join the list, IIRC.

[Fammaden]

The understanding is that the list feature is for legacy items only, so for raid targets what is there? Just lustrous russet? I'd assume for raid zones it would be more left to the discretion of the guild.

Also, seems like the list was for specific named mobs, not for items per se. So if its something that drops off multiple things in a zone randomly, there wouldn't be a list feature?

[soronil]

- PC unable to kill said spawn comes and puts name on list, sits in zone till higher lvl does it. Is the expectation that if we see a lvl 1 on the list we petition for a GM? What if that toon is under roleplay or anon and simply out of sight / invis and therefore can't even be /conned?

- PC puts name on list & brings group of friends who also put their names on the list to discourage other players from sitting around and waiting and can therefore pass the item off to whomever or whichever alt they want after looting it a couple times. Are you going to sit in zone, near spawn camp waiting for an item to drop if there are 4 or 5 people ahead of you ?


Here's the idea:

Level requirement, and you have to be near the spawn. There are also anti afk checks. But, you are not expected to kill the spawn. In fact, if an exp group is there killing that camp, it would be KSing if you, as the top person on the list, killed their mob.

Whoever owns the camp kills the mob, and if the item drops, the person at the top of the list gets a notification and gets to loot it. I assume it works like loot does today, where you have 2-3 min exlcusive window to loot.

If there's not really a group "camping" the spawn, the mob is still going to die. These camps will always have a bunch of level apropriate people sitting there, waiting on the list. 5? 10? 20? Anyway, the mob is going to die, because all of those people want to move up on the list.

If you get 20 friends to zone in at the same time as you, and all get on the list together, and you all want to wait 1. for all the people already ahead of you and 2. all the people in your own group until your turn, then sure. But what is the point of that?
You're not going to trick/intimidate anyone by adding a bunch of people at once. As long as all those people you brought stay, however many hours/days, they get their loot. If most leave right away, then the people logging on (think in terms of multiple people an hour, if nothing but to just check how long the list is) will just jump on and fill the list back up.

It's exhausting how many people have not read any of the dozens of similar questions/responses think they've come up with some great idea to abuse the system that the devs have not thought of. If there's obvious flaws, I'm sure it will be adjusted quickly, but let's just assume they are smarter than most of us with regards to this and trust that they've thought out some of these more trivial ideas.

[Barantor]

I think with all the same type questions on this it would be beneficial to see some of it in action to show how it works and then folks can direct these questions to that.

[Videri]

Is there going to be anything in place to prevent list abuse?

GMs said they would police it early on. Any problems or shortcomings of the List will be addressed when they become apparent.

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- PC unable to kill said spawn comes and puts name on list, sits in zone till higher lvl does it. Is the expectation that if we see a lvl 1 on the list we petition for a GM? What if that toon is under roleplay or anon and simply out of sight / invis and therefore can't even be /conned?

You will need to be the appropriate level that we pre-determine to add to the list.

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- PC puts name on list & brings group of friends who also put their names on the list to discourage other players from sitting around and waiting and can therefore pass the item off to whomever or whichever alt they want after looting it a couple times. Are you going to sit in zone, near spawn camp waiting for an item to drop if there are 4 or 5 people ahead of you ?

If those 4 or 5 people are willing to wait for hours just to help their friend(s) get more items, that's their choice. All we have to do is get on the list after them. If they all leave once their friend gets a thingis, then poof, we're farther ahead on the list.

The items will still be going to those that put the time in. This is not a "Casual" mechanism. This is a "Fair playing field for those that can put the time in".

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- I'm assuming this would be disabled for raid targets?

Lists
We would like players to have their fair shot at obtaining limited time items, and to that end we are devising a system for a server-kept 'list' of players in line to loot said item.

This indicates there will only be a List for limited-time items. Certainly not for raid targets. Certainly not for every camp or mob.

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[Videri]

Lists
We would like players to have their fair shot at obtaining limited time items, and to that end we are devising a system for a server-kept 'list' of players in line to loot said item. Upon entering a zone or camp area, you will be able to enter a command to add yourself to the list for this item. While your name is on that list you must remain in the zone or camp vicinity until your name reaches the top (You'll have a limited time to re-enter the zone or area in case of disconnection). Once your name is up, and the item drops, you will automatically be granted exclusive permission to loot that item from the corpse. We hope this system will prevent the practice of passing camps and/or items to friends, corpsing additional items, and so on. We believe this should closely mimic how the majority of camps were handled in classic Everquest, and is the best solution to mechanically enforce it. More details about this system will be announced prior to launch.

I want to address a few misconceptions I've seen about the Lists.

The items will still be going to those that put the time in. This is not a "Casual" mechanism. This is a "Fair playing field for those that can put the time in". You will need to be the appropriate level that we pre-determine to add to the list. You need to stay ONLINE and in the zone or near the camp. You need to pass AFK Check Mechanisms. You can only loot it once. Etc. This system is purely to prevent the same people or group of people from holding the camp for days or weeks at a time and stocking up the items for themself and their friends/guildies.

AND they said at some point GMs would be there early on to ensure things go well.

[Natewest1987]

thanks for the replies!

[Wenai]

In an ideal world, it will be like Scout Roll, or Chardok Quest player agreements. Where people show up, help others get their stuff, and then continue on with their day.

Let's hypothetically say that a level 30 Cleric shows up to get a Manastone. Waits his turn in line, helps people out throughout the period. Cleric's turn on the list: everyone refuses to help the guy. He can't solo the EE, and dies. I really... really hope people aren't going to be like that.

Leading up to the announcement of Green, I was pretty sure Manastone in particular was going to be a gong-show. I am glad to see the list system announced. My suggestion would have been to make Manastone Magic/Lore/NoDrop and Soulbound w/ a minimum level loot requirement. Then just revert it to its classic status after removal from drop tables. That way people can only loot one at an appropriate level, and can't corpse or trade them.

I think I like the idea of a list system slightly better because it can properly police order. My hope is just that people get locked out of the list for some significant period of time (measured in weeks) after they successfully loot one; or else we may see more incentive to let that poor Cleric die.

[Cen]

My list question is if I'm in the active group as a ranger in the sup room by some miracle, and I'm next on list, but I die like a ranger, am I off the list after rez?

[kaev]

My list question is if I'm in the active group as a ranger in the sup room by some miracle, and I'm next on list, but I die like a ranger, am I off the list after rez?

There was some mention of a brief window to log back in after disconnection, hopefully that would also apply after an "involuntary ranger gate event".

[Vizax_Xaziv]

.My hope is just that people get locked out of the list for some significant period of time (measured in weeks) after they successfully loot one; or else we may see more incentive to let that poor Cleric die.

Yes! We KNOW based on experience w/ Blue99 that the uber-neckbears will list themselves over-and-over again to attempt to acquire as many Manastones as possible.
I assume that once a player has looted said "list-item" that they will be locked out of the list for "x" amount of time (I'd vote permanently.)

I dont think that letting players die to move them off the list will be a real problem. There's like to be DOZENS of players on the Manastone "list" at any given time, and they will apparently be required to stay in-zone and non-AFK - so there will be plenty of players to help kill the mob. And the faster the mob dies, the faster the Manastone drops thusly the faster your turn comes around.

[Videri]

We KNOW based on experience w/ Blue99 that the uber-neckbears will list themselves over-and-over again...

https://i.imgur.com/u4rmaaH.jpg

[soronil]

Would not be surprised if you can only list an item once... Ever. Per character. Why would there be any other behavior, if the system is designed to give everyone a fair shot? Why are you guys assuming otherwise?

[Wenai]

Yes! We KNOW based on experience w/ Blue99 that the uber-neckbears will list themselves over-and-over again to attempt to acquire as many Manastones as possible.

This actually didn't happen on Blue's launch. During Blue launch I started as an ERU CLR and went all the way to level 34 and due to a long story I ended up re-rolling as a BAR SHM. I leveled that character to 34 and approached the Manastone camp with a friend. There was one lonely guy there who let us take over the camp only 40 minutes after we arrived. We stayed for 4 hours and got 2 Manastones (one for each of us) and then we handed off the camp to the next person. I think the only person who got a massive amount of Manastones was Penoy. He was bound at the camp and whenever he was bored or dead from a raid, he would check the camp and kill the EE to see if he gets a Manastone lol.

Overall Blue players at launch were pretty respectful of one another, I do not expect the same on Green lol.

[Soothsayer]

I'm loving the sound of this "list" business. I wasn't around when Project 1999 was in its earliest stages, so it's good to know I'll have a shot at that glorious rubicite armor after all ^^

[Verose]

...We stayed for 4 hours and got 2 Manastones (one for each of us) and then we handed off the camp to the next person.

28 hours, no stone, I think I started hallucinating before I finally called it quits. Also fought with Sever over the camp at one point (thought experiment: who gets the camp if the server reboots for a quick 10 minute downtime?). I think this was half the reason I quit early-on given that every other raiding cleric had one it seemed.

I think the only person who got a massive amount of Manastones was Penoy.

There was at least one other I know of who I'll leave anonymous since he at least let me borrow one for a while.

Personally, I think the Manastone will not be as big of a deal this time around (at least for me) because the timeline is clear now; back in 09/10 we didn't know exactly when development would be finished for the expansion content.