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View Full Version : Do you like hybrids having an xp penalty?


GhostCow
09-24-2019, 10:42 PM
One more poll to see if the majority actually enjoy this or not

zaneosak
09-24-2019, 10:48 PM
They all take more XP from a groups share to compensate for the penalty. I think the idea was "hey, you're a mix of TWO classes in one, that's really good, here you get a penalty to compensate" Not sure anybody "enjoys" getting less experience or whatever, but it sure seems like it existed back in that era and that is why people play here for the most part, of course not everybody plays for that reason though.

GhostCow
09-24-2019, 10:52 PM
That was the idea, but it didn't work out that way. None of the hybrids are that much better than any other class except for the bard. The point of sharing the xp penalty was so that a bunch of friends playing together would all level at the same rate. Later it was changed because hindsight is 20/20

Danth
09-24-2019, 10:55 PM
Needs an option for "don't care." I'll play my favorite classes with or without it.

Danth

Bravak
09-24-2019, 11:15 PM
I do not like hybrid or class-based experience penalties (or bonuses).

The original developers even admitted that penalties were a mistake to implement, and they eventually removed them from the game. They were intended to serve as a balance to the perceived notion that hybrids and certain classes were more powerful, but in practice that turned out not to be the case. Forgive me, but someone posted the actual original developer blog last week, which highlighted in detail and proved why experience penalties were a mistake and why they were removed (I cannot remember the exact post). In one way of thinking, experience penalties are akin to a bug that was eventually found and removed from the code, and since many such bugs have already been fixed for the Green server I don't see why experience penalties shouldn't be removed as well.

Personally, I would prefer if the penalties were removed on Green, but this isn't a game-breaker for me since I will not be playing a character with a major penalty. And if they are included they will not affect my willingness to group with other players. I'm looking forward to the social aspects of the game and the adventure itself, not racing to the maximum level.

Actually, I managed to find the post by xCry0x on September 15, which linked to the following EQ Producer Letter: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/edit...rs_letter.html

Albanwr
09-24-2019, 11:23 PM
Needs an option for "don't care." I'll play my favorite classes with or without it.

hillgiantchamp
09-24-2019, 11:29 PM
Agreed Needs an option for "don't care." I'll play my favorite classes with or without it.

Videri
09-24-2019, 11:31 PM
Majority rules, right?

















Nope! It's Rogean rules around these parts. And he does not listen to the majority. Only in-era evidence.

Vizax_Xaziv
09-24-2019, 11:39 PM
The experience penalties were based around D&D multiclassing. You couldn't give the classes a lower level cap so it was increased xp requirements instead

GhostCow
09-25-2019, 01:10 AM
Majority rules, right?

The goal isn't to get him to change anything. This is research to satisfy my own curiosity.

And for those of you who don't care: I don't care that you don't care, this thread isn't for you. Not voting is the "I don't care" option.

Videri
09-25-2019, 01:21 AM
I see. I wonder who would vote "Yes I love it" other than people here on the forums who don't like the poll.

I hope the results are edifying.

Natewest1987
09-25-2019, 01:31 AM
Up racial penalties and remove the hybrid penalty 🤷*♂️

DRAGONBAIT
09-25-2019, 01:50 AM
op wanting to play an hybrid with no exp penalty

Jimjam
09-25-2019, 02:03 AM
You always need a spoil ballot option in a poll. People want their voices to be heard.

GnomeCaptain
09-25-2019, 02:15 AM
Yes, in the hope it dissuades min-maxers from playing.

But I won't vote in the poll.

Because I can't care less about "what the majority actually enjoy[s]."

Tethler
09-25-2019, 04:20 AM
Needs an option for "don't care." I'll play my favorite classes with or without it.

Videri
09-25-2019, 04:23 AM
Agreed Needs an option for "don't care." I'll play my favorite classes with or without it.

You guys should vote "Yes," then. :) help this hopes

Hoppkins_Wytchfinder
09-25-2019, 04:29 AM
I feel lucky the 2 classes im considering (SHM & NEC) i never played back in the day so lucky for me not applicable.

Tethler
09-25-2019, 04:34 AM
You guys should vote "Yes," then. :) help this hopes

It doesn't help. I don't "enjoy" the penalty. It simply doesn't factor into my decision making.

Chortles Snort|eS
09-25-2019, 06:56 AM
Me no like da hit
Me do like da SK

Fammaden
09-25-2019, 07:07 AM
Don't care.

Znakebite
09-25-2019, 07:56 AM
I really want to play a Troll SK though. . . maybe, just maybe I don't care.

Jibartik
09-25-2019, 08:18 PM
IMO everyone should get a 1000% exp penalty equally.

But I think its really dumb that the EXP penalty is applied to other players when grouping even if its just a small percentage.

If I want to take on the challenge, great! But Dont make me force that challenge on everyone I want to group with. It just gives greedy people a reason to be greedy about inviting other players to their creature killing IMO.

BlackBellamy
09-25-2019, 08:33 PM
hybrids and certain classes were more powerful, but in practice that turned out not to be the case.

This is why I don't discriminate against hybrid people or any other xpenalized. It's not like they're getting this real powerful avatar at everyone's expense - they're just trying to play a class they like.

Fammaden
09-25-2019, 09:10 PM
Is it even confirmed that the penalty is in? I know more importantly no one's said its out, so we can safely assume. But still, I haven't seen official mention of it either way.

Wenai
09-25-2019, 09:17 PM
Is it even confirmed that the penalty is in? I know more importantly no one's said its out, so we can safely assume. But still, I haven't seen official mention of it either way.

It is part of classic. It was part of Blue launch. It is virtually 100% guaranteed to be in.

shuklak
09-26-2019, 12:25 AM
If green doesn't have exp penalties and bonuses then it's just not classic.

Who cares if the devs thought it was a bad choice. That's like saying going to Vietnam was a bad choice. But we dont rewrite the history books.

Gustoo
09-26-2019, 12:41 AM
Classic is going to be classic I'm cringing so hard at the thought of someone thinking their gunna unclassic the hybrid penalty.

Also cringing hard at that 5 percent slowing you down to level 50 then to 60. It's classic man literally your 20 years late to level 50 who cares how long it takes your toon???

Gustoo
09-26-2019, 12:43 AM
Please move to resolved I will delete all my manastones if there was even a 1 percent chance that staff would intensionally not have classic exp build out.

Oh they should move halfling bonus to humans like was originally intended too.

DMN
09-26-2019, 02:00 AM
I'm pretty torn on the subject. i like the purist idea of trying best to recreate what was, but at the same time "what was" was actually a complete ignorance of the hybrid exp penalties and their effects on party exp. if they existed, no one actually knew, so it never really impact their perceptions or playstyle. It was only awhile after showEQ popped up that people started looking so deeply at the code and such and realized the penalty was shared with the party. For the life of me I can't recall how much time elapsed between between hybrids being exp pariahs after showEQ outed them and verant/sony actually ameliorating the issue.

in any event, I think i lean towards the exp penalty existing but having no influence on party exp rate. This both contradicts "how it was" and "what eventually happened", unfortunately.

Vizax_Xaziv
09-26-2019, 02:04 AM
If green doesn't have exp penalties and bonuses then it's just not classic.

Who cares if the devs thought it was a bad choice. That's like saying going to Vietnam was a bad choice. But we dont rewrite the history books.

But if we have the option to change things for the better, we should. The Hybrid Penalty was, stated by the creators of the game themselves, one if the greatest mistakes they made

El-Hefe
09-26-2019, 02:35 AM
But if we have the option to change things for the better, we should. The Hybrid Penalty was, stated by the creators of the game themselves, one if the greatest mistakes they made

P99 is about recreating an classic experience, mistakes and all. You fix too many mistakes and you have a completely different game.

Fammaden
09-26-2019, 07:15 AM
If they are going to retroactively fix that mistake then they should retroactively apply other nerfs, like removing guise/manastone etc. from the game on day one. Otherwise you are being too inconsistent and that's a bad look.

The hybrid penalty makes zero sense and accomplishes basically nothing for the game, but I understand the position they are in with it.

Copout
09-26-2019, 03:05 PM
They've already got the loot list that isn't classic. I'm not necessarily saying they should remove the hybrid penalty, but that is a big precedent for altering the classic state of affairs. Let's not lose sight of why they made that change though. The loot list removes the incentive for sufficiently determined people to hog what ever camps are to be listed. If enough camps got hogged, it's possible to envision a situation where many people get frustrated and quit, feeling they can't accomplish anything worthwhile in game. A little bit of classic anarchy is sacrificed in the name of making the game playable for the gainfully employed.

So, following the reasoning which led to that change, the question is: will the hybrid xp penalty result in a substantial number of people not playing who would otherwise play? Probably not. The penalty is stupid and painful and a big waste of everyone's time, but no one is going to walk because of the hybrid penalty. That being said, I think it would be LESS inconsistent to remove the hybrid xp penalty than it would be to remove guise/manastones because you know a substantial number of people wouldn't bother playing if cool limited time items weren't included.

Llandris
09-26-2019, 03:09 PM
Be grateful you don't have to wait 8 years for the penalty to be removed

Deathrydar
09-26-2019, 03:14 PM
I completely respect the developers of this server for what they have accomplished! They are great!

But what would it hurt to remove that experience penalty? I believe we would have nothing to lose and everything to gain. There would be a more variety of races and classes and less min/maxing.

I don't believe they are going to remove it, as they are keeping this classic as hell, but I do agree that the experience penalties are weak and do nothing good for the game. They don't make it more difficult and they don't make it more fun, and they don't add anything to it, they just make it............corny! Why keep a bug in the game if it was already a confirmed bug?

Yes I am aware that it is not a "bug" per se, but the Verant developers stated that it was not what they intended.

My 2 copper.

Jibartik
09-26-2019, 03:33 PM
I mean if I can see while I meditate it only seems fair... ;)

Sonark
09-26-2019, 04:06 PM
With as many people that are going to just grind grind grind their way to end cap for levels, it really seems more like experience penalties should be increased for people with increased play time.

Jibartik
09-26-2019, 04:34 PM
With as many people that are going to just grind grind grind their way to end cap for levels, it really seems more like experience penalties should be increased for people with increased play time.

Sounds like its 2004 and a game designer is roughing out his idea for a new concept to reduce mmo addiction and give casual players some advantage called "rested exp" :cool:

Remember when Star Wars Galaxies was like, "We can make it so you have to go and watch other players dance in cantinas after a few hours of play. This will totally work!"

:D

Videri
09-26-2019, 04:43 PM
If they are going to retroactively fix that mistake then they should retroactively apply other nerfs, like removing guise/manastone etc. from the game on day one. Otherwise you are being too inconsistent and that's a bad look.

The hybrid penalty makes zero sense and accomplishes basically nothing for the game, but I understand the position they are in with it.

Here's the thing, though. That mistake was fixed at a certain point in the classic timeline. That's why it will be fixed here, at the same point in the Green timeline.

Fammaden
09-26-2019, 05:10 PM
Be grateful you don't have to wait 8 years for the penalty to be removed

When's the penalty lift though? Two months into Velious right? So almost two years into a three year cycle, the vast majority of time hybrids are unfairly held down. So compared to the eight out of ten years so far on blue you'll have even less time to enjoy a hybrid, not counting the fact that you can play them without penalty on blue forever.

I accept the project's goals and understand it staying in being a totally valid classic quirk, but it does feel pretty absurd to do this to those classes. Except bards, raise it to 80% on bards.

Deathrydar
09-26-2019, 06:10 PM
When's the penalty lift though? Two months into Velious right? So almost two years into a three year cycle, the vast majority of time hybrids are unfairly held down.

Hybrids lives matter!

Baler
09-26-2019, 06:15 PM
no bullshit.. I leveled an iksar sk to 50 with 60% exp reduction.

That's probably one of my biggest bragging rights I have.

Seungkyu
09-27-2019, 08:37 AM
We're not going to be forcing the black screen on green.


I usually play Pal/SK but I'm avoiding them this time around because of the hybrid penalty.

I'd prefer the Black Screen + Hybrid Penalty, but if one isn't implemented I'd prefer neither.

Mblake81
09-27-2019, 09:25 AM
Like or Dislike has nothing to do with it imo. It was part of the RPG setting.

Glenzig
09-27-2019, 09:50 AM
People are still crying about this? Just play another class, or suck it up.

soronil
09-27-2019, 10:08 AM
no bullshit.. I leveled an iksar sk to 50 with 60% exp reduction.

That's probably one of my biggest bragging rights I have.

it's multiplicative bro. and it's an increase in exp needed, not exp reduction. so it took you 68% more experience points to reach level 50.

workbench
09-27-2019, 10:36 AM
Think about it this way, EQ is a journey. The Journey is longer for some classes! Enjoy it.

Deathrydar
09-27-2019, 10:43 AM
Think about it this way, EQ is a journey. The Journey is longer for some classes! Enjoy it.

Complete Win^^

Hoppkins_Wytchfinder
09-27-2019, 11:02 AM
Also think of it this way. The longer you spend levelling likely the better your fundamental understanding of that class will be. In groups and raids those people really shine.

You can tell someone who has done shit the hard way when they pull off some of the craziest pulling and pull stuff out the bag and save groups.

I've been in groups and seen monks return with a named from MILES away and everyone is like "Where the hell did you get that from"