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GhostCow
09-24-2019, 10:40 PM
Just doing a poll to see how the majority feels

Fammaden
09-24-2019, 10:48 PM
There isn't going to be blind medding its already confirmed black screen won't be in. You'll have to have book open and med button clicked til 35 but can make the book window as transparent as you want and move it off screen even. Rogean mentioned all this on Reddit earlier and confirmed the black screen wouldn't be in during the thread about it.

This being a bare minimum compromise to remove the tedium but maintain some semblance of the old flavor or lore of the original book medding.

GhostCow
09-24-2019, 10:50 PM
Glad to hear it! I can definitely live with that. I'm still curious to see how people feel about the mechanic though

pink grapefruit
09-25-2019, 01:01 AM
Voted no, tho I don't *hate* it lol. It's not super game-breaking either way, just a silly annoyance.

Videri
09-25-2019, 01:05 AM
VOTE NOW FOR BLIND BLACK SCREEN SPELLBOOK MEDDING ALL THE WAY TO 65

Albanwr
09-25-2019, 01:51 AM
doesn't matter. The guys in charge have the plan and they will continue with it. I think the blank screen thing is bad, but would still play green happily if it was part of the server.

El-Hefe
09-25-2019, 02:37 AM
doesn't matter. The guys in charge have the plan and they will continue with it. I think the blank screen thing is bad, but would still play green happily if it was part of the server.

This is the right attitude to have.

Kraznor
09-25-2019, 06:59 AM
Just doing a poll to see how the majority feels

The majority don't come here.

Mblake81
09-25-2019, 08:33 AM
just a silly annoyance.

/shrug

Azoraa
09-25-2019, 12:31 PM
doesn't matter. The guys in charge have the plan and they will continue with it. I think the blank screen thing is bad, but would still play green happily if it was part of the server.

There is soo much posts about this that I don't even know what is being done about it now. But if it is going to be the blank screen, my friend and I are not going to want to even start investing our time into it. There is a lot of time spend meditating and getting to level 35 will be very slow*, so NOT fun way to play.

*not implying that we want it to be fast at all. Just not going to spend out play time with a blanked out screen for days on end.

loramin
09-25-2019, 01:04 PM
There is soo much posts about this that I don't even know what is being done about it now. But if it is going to be the blank screen, my friend and I are not going to want to even start investing our time into it. There is a lot of time spend meditating and getting to level 35 will be very slow*, so NOT fun way to play.

*not implying that we want it to be fast at all. Just not going to spend out play time with a blanked out screen for days on end.

Azoraa, I can't speak for Rogean or Nilbog, but I think their honest response would be "ok".

Green isn't for everyone: it very much is a different game. If WoW is "EQ 3.0", and modern/live EQ is "2.0", then Blue is "1.5" (1.2?), and Green is "1.0". You're 100% right that things are slower, and "less fun" as you go down in versions.

WoW is absolutely, 100% faster: everyone here would agree. We'd also mostly all agree that WoW is "more fun", in a sense: perhaps it's more accurate to say the barriers to having fun are lower on WoW.

The reason people play older/harder/"less fun" MMOGs is because they're older/harder. When you accomplish something on Blue, like say getting your epic weapon, it's a monumental achievement. Everyone here still remembers getting their epic on live (if they played), because it very likely was harder than anything they ever had to do in another game.

The fact that it takes more effort to achieve a goal is exactly why the ClassicQuesters/ClassHoles are excited to play this even older, even "less fun" game, and why they want to be blind while meditating. When they get to level 35 and don't have to be blind anymore, they'll get to have a (genuinely fun) experience that someone who only plays on WoW or even Blue will never get.

It's just like if we get night blindness, or any other "less fun feature" here: people will get to experience the joy of acquiring an Ultravision item, something that is meaningless on Blue. Without night blindness no one will ever get to appreciate such items again (the way they did back in '99).

Green will be full of "harder, but in a way more fun" experiences like this, and we just want to book blindness to be one more of them.

Azoraa
09-25-2019, 02:31 PM
Azoraa, I can't speak for Rogean or Nilbog, but I think their honest response would be "ok".

Green isn't for everyone: it very much is a different game. If WoW is "EQ 3.0", and modern/live EQ is "2.0", then Blue is "1.5" (1.2?), and Green is "1.0". You're 100% right that things are slower, and "less fun" as you go down in versions.

WoW is absolutely, 100% faster: everyone here would agree. We'd also mostly all agree that WoW is "more fun", in a sense: perhaps it's more accurate to say the barriers to having fun are lower on WoW.

The reason people play older/harder/"less fun" MMOGs is because they're older/harder. When you accomplish something on Blue, like say getting your epic weapon, it's a monumental achievement. Everyone here still remembers getting their epic on live (if they played), because it very likely was harder than anything they ever had to do in another game.

The fact that it takes more effort to achieve a goal is exactly why the ClassicQuesters/ClassHoles are excited to play this even older, even "less fun" game, and why they want to be blind while meditating. When they get to level 35 and don't have to be blind anymore, they'll get to have a (genuinely fun) experience that someone who only plays on WoW or even Blue will never get.

It's just like if we get night blindness, or any other "less fun feature" here: people will get to experience the joy of acquiring an Ultravision item, something that is meaningless on Blue. Without night blindness no one will ever get to appreciate such items again (the way they did back in '99).

Green will be full of "harder, but in a way more fun" experiences like this, and we just want to book blindness to be one more of them.

Sure, and my honest response is also, "Ok". On these other points about it being "harder", that is Ok too. It has been noted that you can also restrict your bandwidth, downstep your resolution, etc. to make it harder. So if you want to do that, those are optional things you can do as well.

As for the blind meditation, are they definitely forcing that or not? I read that the forced UI is already confirmed, if that is the case then we have another frustration... resize your chat windows by dragging corners around (?) <chuckle> - though perhaps a lesser deterrence.

loramin
09-25-2019, 02:33 PM
As for the blind meditation, are they definitely forcing that or not?

My understanding is that the "book UI" will be forced open ... but the overall UI will still be an unclassic one, which means the book part of it will only take up a small portion of the screen.

From 1 to 35 you'll be forced to keep your book open when you meditate ... but (unclassicaly ... and I'm still hoping against hope that Rogean changes his mind on this) it won't fill your whole screen and prevent you from seeing what else is going on.

Azoraa
09-25-2019, 02:42 PM
My understanding is that the "book UI" will be forced open ... but the overall UI will still be an unclassic one, which means the book part of it will only take up a small portion of the screen.

From 1 to 35 you'll be forced to keep your book open when you meditate ... but (unclassicaly ... and I'm still hoping against hope that Rogean changes his mind on this) it won't fill your whole screen and prevent you from seeing what else is going on.

Ah ok - good idea.. Sounds like it may be an acceptable solution for everyone then. Since you want to be blind and get killed while trying to meditate :D, can you stretch the book out to cover whole screen?

loramin
09-25-2019, 02:47 PM
Ah ok - good idea.. Sounds like it may be an acceptable solution for everyone then. Since you want to be blind and get killed while trying to meditate :D, can you stretch the book out to cover whole screen?

That's a reasonable question which I don't know the answer to.

But look, I think there's something hinted at in that argument, and a lot of people are more than just hinting at it in their posts, so I want to address it. The basic idea is "If you want things classic, just simulate it on your own damn computer loser; stop bothering us" (I know you didn't say it like that, I'm just exaggerating for effect).

That misses the entire difference between Final Fantasy and EverQuest (ie. between single-player RPGs and MMOGs). I can make Final Fantasy, or Diablo, or any such game harder on myself if I want. I can disable certain keyboard keys, turn down my monitor's brightness, or even tie one of my hands behind my back ... and maybe that's fun in a way, the same way speed running old games is fun for some people.

The appeal of massively multi-player online games is that you're "competing" with everyone else in an open world. If everyone else plays by different rules than you (ie. they're playing a different game), you get none of the satisfaction from imposing arbitrary limits on yourself, or at least the only satisfaction you get is on the same level as speed running.

But if everyone has to stare at their spell book, and everyone has to deal with visions issues, and everyone has to kill a million mobs to level (instead of only having to kill 100, or however many it is on WoW) ... then when you accomplish something, it matters.

Daldaen
09-25-2019, 03:14 PM
Book blindness should be enforced for the entire life of the server for all casting classes.

This isn’t just a minor issue for the first 35 levels of the game. For them it’s an issue whenever they meditate.

However for the entirety of the game until Luclin, opening your spell book would block out your entire screen, even at level 60. This is extremely relevant for many of the soloing classes like Enchanters, Shamans and Necromancers that shine on P99, it’s because they’re able to easily swap out spells while still having full vision of their surroundings mid fight. This should not be possible and makes soloing in dangerous areas much easier.

There’s a reason you only have access to 8 spell gems. You need to make a choice on which spells you want to have up prior to a fight. If you decide to change one out you should need to open your book and be blind to your surroundings to do so.

I really Hope book blindness makes it in for green.

Vizax_Xaziv
09-25-2019, 03:16 PM
As I said make it OPTIONAL! Surely these "blind-book" advocates will all CHOOSE to play like that, after lobbying for it, correct?

Vizax_Xaziv
09-25-2019, 03:19 PM
Book blindness should be enforced for the entire life of the server for all casting classes.

This isn’t just a minor issue for the first 35 levels of the game. For them it’s an issue whenever they meditate.

However for the entirety of the game until Luclin, opening your spell book would block out your entire screen, even at level 60. This is extremely relevant for many of the soloing classes like Enchanters, Shamans and Necromancers that shine on P99, it’s because they’re able to easily swap out spells while still having full vision of their surroundings mid fight. This should not be possible and makes soloing in dangerous areas much easier.

There’s a reason you only have access to 8 spell gems. You need to make a choice on which spells you want to have up prior to a fight. If you decide to change one out you should need to open your book and be blind to your surroundings to do so.

I really Hope book blindness makes it in for green.

Didn't you leave for Live TLP servers many years ago? Do you even plan to play on G99 or are you just trying to sabotage the project now?

Nirgon
09-25-2019, 03:29 PM
Why should they care what anyone thinks, make it classic

loramin
09-25-2019, 03:40 PM
or are you just trying to sabotage the project now?

You seem to be confused about something. A person who helps to make Project 1999 more classic ... any person ... even someone who never played on Project 1999 in their entire life ... is NOT "sabotaging" it! In fact, they're doing the exact opposite.

Daldaen was once a stand-up member of the P99 community. Years ago he even sold me my tear for my epic, at a very good price no less.

Yes, he has since fallen from grace (hard), and yes he did go play in the place we shall not speak of ... but even without checking your post history I can still pretty much guarantee that even two or three years ago, Daldaen had already done more to help the project than you have ... ever.

Nirgon
09-25-2019, 03:48 PM
Wonder how many people would vote Yes to starting gear including a guise and manastone

Don't fall for the crocodile tears

Wenai
09-25-2019, 04:05 PM
Honestly. If the Titanium client could force the old static stone UI with no movable pieces; yes.

Since people are just going to drag this element around the screen to give them the most real estate possible to see as much of what is going on as possible; no.

It is just going to be an annoyance, rather than immersive.

Also if I understand correctly, you need to open your book AND click the meditate button every time you want to med up. I can see countless times people in groups forgetting to click that button and never regenerating mana. Bards are gonna be in hot demand.

Daldaen
09-25-2019, 05:33 PM
The issue I have is too many people view UI features as simply a matter of convenience.

They don’t consider that the cumbersome UI of old was just one of the many factors that influences the difficulty of the game.

Not being able to see your surroundings while meditating at low levels and when scribing spells or swapping spells in your spell bar at all levels is one of those difficulties.

That’s why I want to make sure everyone is on the same level playing field and level of immersion when playing on a Classic EverQuest server.

I also support the removal of many other Titanium features like the Cycle Target hotkey and multiple chat windows available. Being able to easily cycle through mobs cuts down time and therefore difficulty in locking down mobs via mez or root CC. Being able to have multiple chat boxes means you don’t have to be selective and filter out specific lines of text to have a legible chat box, in doing so you reduce the amount of information you have access to which informs the gameplay decisions you make. IE on a raid you can filter other hits to a separate window and see someone pull aggro on a dragon eat a round of Melee and switch targets to them and heal, when previously you wouldn’t be able to react to this immediately with your nose stuck in a wall.

These are just a few examples of why what some people seem to be annoying / bad interface choices, are actually little pieces that build up to make the game more difficult over all. They won’t make or break the server by any means, however I think it would be much better off with as much classic as possible.

Danth
09-25-2019, 05:36 PM
To elaborate on Daldaen's point, spellbook was part of what went into class balancing. I don't see anyone offering Warriors/Rogues/Monks any compensation for essentially losing one of their (few) advantages over casting classes.

Also, mousewheel scroll to third person is an abomination. Game was meant to be seen from the first person and designed with that in mind.

Danth

Videri
09-26-2019, 05:37 PM
If we were to have blind spellbook medding, and you feared getting aggroed or trained or other danger, would you med out in the open? Near a camp of mobs? Near a train highway? Nay, you would med somewhere safe. You would invis before medding. You would tell your groupmates you were medding and please guard you while you were in deep concentration. And that was part of the classic experience. :)

Not only is spellbook medding part of classic, it's easy to overcome.

Speaking of which, people who remember from back in the day, did people say "medding" to announce that they could no longer see beyond their spellbooks?

Danth
09-26-2019, 06:04 PM
speaking of which, people who remember from back in the day, did people say "medding" to announce that they could no longer see beyond their spellbooks?

Sometimes. Varied from one person to the next as you'd expect. Wife and I used to try to meditate in out-of-the-way places or near guards when possible, although EQ being EQ meant it was far from always possible.

The chosen implementation (can see around the spellbook) for green was how I felt EQ should've done it in the first place, but I have mixed feelings because it isn't classic on a server whose stated goal is making it classic. I suppose I could say I'm disappointed, but not THAT disappointed, especially since I invariably play classes that'll benefit from increased vision.

Danth

Baler
09-26-2019, 06:05 PM
black out meditate till level 30 or bullshit p99 failed

Nilstoniakrath
09-26-2019, 06:34 PM
The issue I have is too many people view UI features as simply a matter of convenience.

They don’t consider that the cumbersome UI of old was just one of the many factors that influences the difficulty of the game.

Not being able to see your surroundings while meditating at low levels and when scribing spells or swapping spells in your spell bar at all levels is one of those difficulties.

That’s why I want to make sure everyone is on the same level playing field and level of immersion when playing on a Classic EverQuest server.

I also support the removal of many other Titanium features like the Cycle Target hotkey and multiple chat windows available. Being able to easily cycle through mobs cuts down time and therefore difficulty in locking down mobs via mez or root CC. Being able to have multiple chat boxes means you don’t have to be selective and filter out specific lines of text to have a legible chat box, in doing so you reduce the amount of information you have access to which informs the gameplay decisions you make. IE on a raid you can filter other hits to a separate window and see someone pull aggro on a dragon eat a round of Melee and switch targets to them and heal, when previously you wouldn’t be able to react to this immediately with your nose stuck in a wall.

These are just a few examples of why what some people seem to be annoying / bad interface choices, are actually little pieces that build up to make the game more difficult over all. They won’t make or break the server by any means, however I think it would be much better off with as much classic as possible.

Seriously, the number of chat windows allowed has a negligible impact on actual gameplay, but a huge impact on enjoyment in my opinion. Being able to chat more easily and freely with my groupmates makes the long hours of grinding much more tolerable. I thought a major point of p99 is that this is a social server, not just a handful of people boxing armies of 24+ characters. The ban on boxing here is actually NOT a classic thing, it was allowed on Live, but the effect of the box ban is a huge plus. I would argue that allowing multiple chat windows should be viewed in a similar light.

Vexenu
09-26-2019, 06:56 PM
I'm pretty close to being a Classic purist, but multiple chat windows is probably the last non-Classic feature I'd want removed, if only because doing so would simply result in people essentially being forced to use something like Discord in order to communicate while playing. You would join a group and they would immediately give you the Discord channel info. This would suck and feel much more un-classic than the current chat window situation. (If you think this wouldn't happen, especially once people got serious about grouping 50+, you're nuts). That being the case, I don't think they should do anything with chat windows.

Spell book is different and I'm in full agreement with Daldaen about it being much more than a convenience issue. It really does change how people play the game. The game is designed to be hard and unforgiving, and to essentially require grouping up with other players to safely get anything done. The current state of the game on Blue is NOT EverQuest. It is basically EverQuest on training wheels at this point.

EQ was NOT designed to be a low-risk game that coddles the player and places them on a comfortable loot treadmill. It was designed to essentially be an online adaptation of tabletop D&D adventures, in which players would start from nothing and gradually build their characters up while going on quests, exploring a massive world, adventuring with other players in underground dungeons and killing plenty of dangerous, exotic foes. That was "The Vision" of EverQuest, and is how the game is best enjoyed. The modern P1999 Blue version of EverQuest as a sort of competitive loot pinata simulator is, quite frankly, a perversion.

This is why any changes that result in the game feeling and playing more true to the original "Vision" (such as spellbook medding) are great in my opinion.

Jibartik
09-26-2019, 06:58 PM
Wait people sit on p99?

I have one hotkey to open my spell book that functions exactly the same as sitting, except I also have access to my spell book.

So I haven't "sat" in I don't know how long.

Don't need no sit button when you playing on easy mode with that tiny spell journal :p:cool:

Seungkyu
09-27-2019, 08:27 AM
As a kid, I would run up to casters and crouch my ass on their faces as they meditated.
My paladin would say stuff like "be blessed my child".

Spellbook blindness is classic, and so is my farting in your face. :)

Lojik
09-27-2019, 08:37 AM
Too bad we can't get the original book UI working. As far as other things mentioned, I agree that removing multiple chat boxes would simply get people to other programs to chat (which would result in even more unclassicness.) Raiding guilds already want you in vent or teamspeak or whatever which feels unclassic to me, although I'm sure some similar things were used back in the day.

Removing cycle target definitely should be done if it can be, really trivializes a lot of things. As far as mousewheel scroll, weren't multiple camera views in at launch? I don't see this one as a huge deal if so.

Mblake81
09-27-2019, 08:48 AM
Too bad we can't get the original book UI working. As far as other things mentioned, I agree that removing multiple chat boxes would simply get people to other programs to chat (which would result in even more unclassicness.) Raiding guilds already want you in vent or teamspeak or whatever which feels unclassic to me, although I'm sure some similar things were used back in the day.

AIM, ICQ. A friend of my roommate who was in the DSL business brought by a headset once to show talk chat. It was very laggy even on early cable.

(couldn't use AIM or ICQ while in game)

This level of organization was not considered in the game design, keep that in mind when one guild uber dominates a raid scene literally waiting for the mob to spawn.

"Hey, you on?"

"Yeah, whats up?"

"That mob spawned a few hours ago"

"Cool, let's go kill it"

Danth
09-27-2019, 10:55 AM
As far as mousewheel scroll, weren't multiple camera views in at launch? I don't see this one as a huge deal if so.

There were alternate views accessed through F9, but they A) did not follow the character as readily as mousewheel 3rd person does, and B) more critically the controls did not work the same either, particularly mouselook. Old patch notes confirm this in the sense of mentioning changes made to 3rd person controls. Between those two factors 3rd person was only of very limited use and hardly anyone used it for more than screenshots. Sometimes a kiter used it or a monk might've cycled out while feigned.

I agree with your (and others') assessment that single chat window would most likely cause the cancer known as Discord to filter down into regular grouping. In that case the cure is worse than the symptom. I play with single chat window on a couple of alts and it's not bad, but recent discussions have shown that some elements of this community have become extremely resistant to any sort of change.

Danth

Fammaden
09-27-2019, 11:31 AM
I agree with your (and others') assessment that single chat window would most likely cause the cancer known as Discord to filter down into regular grouping. In that case the cure is worse than the symptom. I play with single chat window on a couple of alts and it's not bad, but recent discussions have shown that some elements of this community have become extremely resistant to any sort of change.

That's a good point. I don't mind voice chat at all, especially just listening to raid instruction. But it can already be tough to find groups of guildies who will do an xp group only in chat rather than getting on the mic. I would HATE for a chat window change to lead to a meta where every pick up xp group expects people to jump in discord. Playing EQ without banter in text chat would bum me right out.

Deathrydar
09-27-2019, 11:36 AM
I despise voice chat programs. Ruins the immersion imo.

Vexenu
09-27-2019, 11:49 AM
Cycle target key - Makes CCing multiple mobs MUCH easier than it was in Classic. Essentially a buff to what is already the most overpowered class in the game (Enchanter).

3rd person scroll wheel - Allows for easier melee positioning and increases situational awareness at the cost of reducing immersion.

Both un-classic and should be removed.

Valion
09-27-2019, 12:35 PM
I could have used voice chat back in the day. I fell asleep waiting for a rez on my first few plane raids. Tense week waiting for the next guild in line to raid hoping my body didn't poof before they could break in and rez it. A "Hey Idiot Wake Up" in my ear would have been most helpful. :p

loramin
09-27-2019, 12:39 PM
I could have used voice chat back in the day. I fell asleep waiting for a rez on my first few plane raids. Tense week waiting for the next guild in line to raid hoping my body didn't poof before they could break in and rez it. A "Hey Idiot Wake Up" in my ear would have been most helpful. :p

Trust me, I've been been on raids where people fall asleep with voice chat (especially if there's any alcohol or other chemicals involved, but also even if they're just really tired) ... the "Hey Idiot Wake Up" won't help :)

Chortles Snort|eS
09-27-2019, 12:51 PM
Me votE yeS buT haPPy wiTh coMproMiSe
WiSh we couLd forCe playerS to have SouNd on THO!!!

Daldaen
09-27-2019, 12:52 PM
Cycle target key - Makes CCing multiple mobs MUCH easier than it was in Classic. Essentially a buff to what is already the most overpowered class in the game (Enchanter).

3rd person scroll wheel - Allows for easier melee positioning and increases situational awareness at the cost of reducing immersion.

Both un-classic and should be removed.

This guy gets it.

I also dislike the advent of voice chats for raiding purposes. I raided until SoD on live without using voice chat. Even when I quit live in VoA my guild didn’t require voice chat and in those events you have multiple emotes and twitch responses you need to prevent wiping the raid.

It blows my mind how guilds on P99 feel voice chat is required for success when basically every raid target is the same with one or two AEs and a single tank, especially pre-Velious.

But I don’t believe a single chat box would dictate that players need Discord to be able to function or that it would wipe away group chat. You’d just have to filter out other hits/spells and a few other chat pieces people send to spam windows. Especially in early levels, your chat won’t be scrolling by that fast. Anyone will be able to read in between their cracked staff swings. Especially considering the resolution you’re playing on allows for a very tall chat box with many lines.

Valion
09-27-2019, 12:54 PM
Trust me, I've been been on raids where people fall asleep with voice chat (especially if there's any alcohol or other chemicals involved, but also even if they're just really tired) ... the "Hey Idiot Wake Up" won't help :)

Haha, I can imagine. I usually got invited on raids during the week, fun times getting through work after a wipe.

Jibartik
09-27-2019, 12:59 PM
Cycle target key - Makes CCing multiple mobs MUCH easier than it was in Classic. Essentially a buff to what is already the most overpowered class in the game (Enchanter).

3rd person scroll wheel - Allows for easier melee positioning and increases situational awareness at the cost of reducing immersion.

Both un-classic and should be removed.


You got any proof about cycle not being in game and when it was added? My memory is its original, but memory aint worth nothing.

Daldaen
09-27-2019, 01:04 PM
You got any proof about cycle not being in game and when it was added? My memory is its original, but memory aint worth nothing.

April 14th, 2004 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20040414.html)

You can now set hot keys to cycle through targets!


This didn’t happen until mid Gates of Discord.

Jibartik
09-27-2019, 01:08 PM
Wow! Memory aint worth nothing! :)

I am really blown away, actually question, was target nearest NPC a thing in original? Because if so that is what I am thinking of.

Izmael
09-27-2019, 01:13 PM
Can we add server disconnects and random crashes for better classic experience please ?

https://i.imgur.com/ijBwOle.png

Valion
09-27-2019, 01:23 PM
Emulate Rodcet Nife then FTW. No server was less stable !

Vizax_Xaziv
09-27-2019, 01:39 PM
I agree with your (and others') assessment that single chat window would most likely cause the cancer known as Discord to filter down into regular grouping. In that case the cure is worse than the symptom.

Danth

Doesn't matter though cuz "DATS CLASSIK" right? Isn't that what yall been sayin for the past month?

You don't get to pick and choose your battles here! One chat window, blind-book-medding, insane hybrid-xp penalties, no cycle-target, no scroll-cam and, of course, one dead server!!!!

Deathrydar
09-27-2019, 01:42 PM
Doesn't matter though cuz "DATS CLASSIK" right? Isn't that what yall been sayin for the past month?

You don't get to pick and choose your battles here! One chat window, blind-book-medding, insane hybrid-xp penalties, no cycle-target, no scroll-cam and, of course, one dead server!!!!

Your last part will be shown to be incorrect! Most of us don't care that this stuff will be in the game.

Fammaden
09-27-2019, 01:48 PM
Pretty sure cycle existed before 2004, I wasn't even playing anymore by then. The way that reads is they made it so you could create a hotkey (?), but you could already bind target cycling to a keyboard key.

Baler
09-27-2019, 01:51 PM
ultimately for green, if it's classic I want it.
classic mechanics
classic bugs
classic exploits

everything, I'm a no compromise classic supporter for green.

Chryorn
09-27-2019, 02:06 PM
I really don't miss this UI:

YouTube: Old Everquest (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWisI2lSc_A)

Nirgon
09-27-2019, 03:09 PM
Overcoming and dealing with things like this is most of the reason there's any nostalgia at all

Not to mention they create mad immersion but most people only want changes for easier pixels

Ask me how I know

This kind of stuff builds character in questers

Baler
09-27-2019, 03:11 PM
They allow shrinking, hugging a wall and summoning an eye to invite from zone in.

am I right. *chuckles*

Danth
09-27-2019, 04:40 PM
You don't get to pick and choose your battles here! One chat window, blind-book-medding, insane hybrid-xp penalties, no cycle-target, no scroll-cam and, of course, one dead server!!!!

I could live with it. As noted, I already do on a couple characters. Can you?

Danth

Videri
09-27-2019, 04:41 PM
This kind of stuff builds character in questers

Playing Everquest builds characters.

Nirgon
09-27-2019, 04:44 PM
They allow shrinking, hugging a wall and summoning an eye to invite from zone in.

am I right. *chuckles*

People ask who cares it's annoying, why make such a big deal?

That's an easy one

It's supposed to be a classic server, why make such a big deal protesting it being so?

Right?

Daldaen
09-27-2019, 04:51 PM
Pretty sure cycle existed before 2004, I wasn't even playing anymore by then. The way that reads is they made it so you could create a hotkey (?), but you could already bind target cycling to a keyboard key.

Tab targeting existed, but that’s different.

Cycle targeting means if you have 10 mobs in front of you, you can hit your cycle button and it will target those mobs one by one until you’ve targetted all 10, and it will restart with the first mob.

Tab targeting means when you target anything, a PC or NPC, then hit Tab, it will target yourself (similar to F1). However if you hit clear your target, then you hit Tab again it will target the mob you “Tab Locked” earlier. This was exceptionally useful for charming NPCs or for creating CotH chains.

Cycle targetting was introduced in that 2004 patch as indicated. Tab targeting was in before that, by PoP at the latest though I’m not positive if it was ever not in.

Druidsgrove 2004 (http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-8904.html)

Vekx
07-20-2004, 02:57 PM
I thought I saw a 'how to' for making a cycle target key when this option came out but can't seem to find it. If I remember correctly you had to chose a letter key which was annoying to me. Anyway... can anyone give some semi detailed instructions please?

Tiane
07-20-2004, 05:58 PM
Doesnt have to be a letter. All you need to do is press Alt-O to go into options in game, click the keyboard tab. Click the pull down thingy and select targetting. In the window, you should see Cycle Targets with no key assigned. Just click on it and then press they key you want to use. 8)

Nilstoniakrath
09-27-2019, 05:59 PM
It's supposed to be a classic server, why make such a big deal protesting it being so?

Right?

ultimately for green, if it's classic I want it.
classic mechanics
classic bugs
classic exploits

everything, I'm a no compromise classic supporter for green.

So I take it you two are for rescinding the ban on boxing too, then, since boxing is also "Classic".... no compromises, right?

Oh yeah, I forgot, of course, you also "pick and choose" which parts of classic are real classic, and which parts are for butthurt crybabies, momma's basement dwellers and wannabe losers

loramin
09-27-2019, 06:22 PM
So I take it you two are for rescinding the ban on boxing too, then, since boxing is also "Classic".... no compromises, right?

Oh yeah, I forgot, of course, you also "pick and choose" which parts of classic are real classic, and which parts are for butthurt crybabies, momma's basement dwellers and wannabe losers

It's not about pick and choose, it's about viable and not. The P99 folks do everything viable, but classic boxing isn't viable.

In classic you had to pay for two accounts, both for the first box, every expansion, and every month. You also had to have two physical computers: EQW didn't come until later, and even then it was ban-worthy tech for the entire classic era.

P99 can't technically force only one instance to run (even if they did people could run VMs). They also can't charge: that's part of their deal with Daybreak (or at least is presumed to be).

So they have two choices, and both are 100% unclassic: no boxing, or people boxing all over the damn place. Most other EQ Emu servers (all of which have pop <100) go the latter route. P99 went the former, and I think anyone who has played on both will tell you, the P99 choice is by far more classic.

Also .. you're a child. I don't even want to invest effort into insulting you better, because it's not even really an insult: more a statement of fact. Baler and Nirgon may not be the friendliest people in this forum, but that response was childish.

Nilstoniakrath
09-27-2019, 06:32 PM
It's not about pick and choose, it's about viable and not. The P99 folks do everything viable, but classic boxing isn't viable.

In classic you had to pay for two accounts, both for the first box, every expansion, and every month. You also had to have two physical computers: EQW didn't come until later, and even then it was ban-worthy tech for the entire classic era.

P99 can't technically force only one instance to run (even if they did people could run VMs). They also can't charge: that's part of their deal with Daybreak (or at least is presumed to be).

So they have two choices, and both are 100% unclassic: no boxing, or people boxing all over the damn place. Most other EQ Emu servers (all of which have pop <100) go the latter route. P99 went the former, and I think anyone who has played on both will tell you, the P99 choice is by far more classic.

Also .. you're a child. I don't even want to invest effort into insulting you better, because it's not even really an insult: more a statement of fact. Baler and Nirgon may not be the friendliest people in this forum, but that response was childish.

Sorry if I was not clear in my sarcasm. I have no desire for p99 to allow boxing.

Nilstoniakrath
09-27-2019, 10:15 PM
Just to be clear, my last response was directed at those who white knight any dissent against any thing "classic". I was offended that a couple of others tried to discredit my argument based on the idea that suggesting ANYTHING non-classic is a heretical idea and those who do so are a) weak and incapable everquest players, and/or b) someone seeking an easy path to leveling. I was making the point that p99 by banning boxing, is inherently NOT adhering 100% to a PURE classic ruleset, whether that is by intention, or code limitations, or whatever other factors impact the devs in how they design p99. By trying to position themselves as "classic purists" those who I called out are in fact hypocrits because they agree with the ban on boxing (or if I am wrong, feel free to argue FOR boxing, LOL), while trying to denigrate me for the sin of advocating for multiple chat windows. And to be clear, again, I support the ban on boxing, and at the end of the day, I will play Green regardless of what they decide to allow re: chat windows, single or multiple.

loramin
09-27-2019, 10:23 PM
Just to be clear, my last response was directed at those who white knight any dissent against any thing "classic". I was offended that a couple of others tried to discredit my argument based on the idea that suggesting ANYTHING non-classic is a heretical idea and those who do so are a) weak and incapable everquest players, and/or b) someone seeking an easy path to leveling. I was making the point that p99 by banning boxing, is inherently NOT adhering 100% to a PURE classic ruleset, whether that is by intention, or code limitations, or whatever other factors impact the devs in how they design p99. By trying to position themselves as "classic purists" those who I called out are in fact hypocrits because they agree with the ban on boxing (or if I am wrong, feel free to argue FOR boxing, LOL), while trying to denigrate me for the sin of advocating for multiple chat windows. And to be clear, again, I support the ban on boxing, and at the end of the day, I will play Green regardless of what they decide to allow re: chat windows, single or multiple.

Did you not read what I wrote? There is no classic boxing possible on P99!

If the devs allow boxing, it won't be classic: there was not limitless free accounts in 1999, and you couldn't control multiple accounts from a computer the way you can now.

If they don't allow boxing, it won't be classic: there was no limit except your pocket book and how many computers you could physically control in classic.

You can't call people hypocrites if they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Nilstoniakrath
09-28-2019, 10:26 PM
Did you not read what I wrote? There is no classic boxing possible on P99!

If the devs allow boxing, it won't be classic: there was not limitless free accounts in 1999, and you couldn't control multiple accounts from a computer the way you can now.

If they don't allow boxing, it won't be classic: there was no limit except your pocket book and how many computers you could physically control in classic.

You can't call people hypocrites if they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I would argue the same thing, re: multiple chat windows

If the devs allow multiple chat windows, it wont be classic, because they weren't allowed back then

If they eliminate multiple chat windows, people will just be more likely to insist that others use Discord or other chat apps that weren't available back then, and that is definitely NOT classic. In my opinion, it is more true to the classic vision to allow multiple chat windows, so as to not encourage Discord or other chat app use. It is the same argument as in the boxing question. Feel free to disagree on the merits, but if you do so AND you call me out as a classic heretic or someone wanting a free ride/easy path to 60, I will respond in kind

Lastly, I will just say that I really don't care that much either way. What I am most excited about for Green is to relive the vanilla experience, which I missed on both Live (started during Velious) and p99 (started during Kunark). So even if the devs put in things that I really don't like, as long as it is true to Classic, which I trust that that is their goal, I will have no complaint

Mblake81
09-28-2019, 11:15 PM
Did you not read what I wrote? There is no classic boxing possible on P99!

If the devs allow boxing, it won't be classic: there was not limitless free accounts in 1999, and you couldn't control multiple accounts from a computer the way you can now.

If they don't allow boxing, it won't be classic: there was no limit except your pocket book and how many computers you could physically control in classic.

This is true. Multiple computers (one game running per rig) multiple boxed copies purchased, monthly service fee for each one, multiple phone lines or upgrading and paying for early cable with a router. Then trying to multitask each character, pretty sad in a MMO. My roommate finally got a new computer in the middle of Kunark era. He put his cleric on the old computer and kept him looking at the wall while playing his rogue on the new one. Was it good? maybe, other guildmates wanted to join us but his cleric needed xp as well.

Pretty ridiculous walking into our computer room with 4 computers in it. Even the cable guy made a remark. Don't try explaining you spend X amount of money to play a video game past 30 years old... :o

TL/DR: Self regulating

I would argue the same thing, re: multiple chat windows

If the devs allow multiple chat windows, it wont be classic, because they weren't allowed back then

If they eliminate multiple chat windows, people will just be more likely to insist that others use Discord or other chat apps that weren't available back then, and that is definitely NOT classic. In my opinion, it is more true to the classic vision to allow multiple chat windows, so as to not encourage Discord or other chat app use. It is the same argument as in the boxing question. Feel free to disagree on the merits, but if you do so AND you call me out as a classic heretic or someone wanting a free ride/easy path to 60, I will respond in kind

....:o

I can't make others not use something like that but I would prefer not to. Single chat window works good enough. All of this organization to lockdown raid spawns. Then people complain about lockdown. Ill take a single chat, not batphone or other communication instead of instances.